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I know many of us have been wrapped up in Ferguson for a couple of weeks, and rightly so, but just as a distraction, I'd like to note, we're going back to war in the Middle-East.

Look at the MSM, the drums are pounding! Listen to the White House, we're sending more "advisors", and observers. The Sec. Dev. has determined that IS is an existential threat. We need to be all shocked that an American was killed, and we need to retaliate!

Not only is IS a threat to the region, but also a threat to the "Homeland"...

Here comes escallatio! (to quote Tom Lehrer).. Let's not just bomb Iraq, but Syria too!

Fasten your seat belts folks, but here comes the war that the MIC, and all the rest have wanted. Doesn't matter that ISIS is a beast of our own creation, or that their money comes from our oil allies... It all works in the grand scheme!

If we don't start paying attention, and pushing back, it's Middle-East War #3... (or 4? sorry, loosing count)

How many do we have to lose to the Oil Co's before we stop?

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (17+ / 0-)

    You have your right to your opinion, I will grant you that, but do not denigrate my right to mine!

    by MrQA on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 05:55:53 PM PDT

  •  Yes I know.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native

    I meant Threat, not treat.....

    You have your right to your opinion, I will grant you that, but do not denigrate my right to mine!

    by MrQA on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:00:04 PM PDT

  •  Sadly, I'm not sure it's a bad thing nt (6+ / 0-)

    "Fighting for us, good. Winning, better. Talking about fighting? Not so good."--Atrios

    by andrewj54 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:08:49 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, what's up with that? The folks at ISIS (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lordcopper, Lepanto, Tailfish, aimeehs

    are just as sweet as can be.

  •  Couldn't agree more. (6+ / 0-)
    If we don't start paying attention, and pushing back, it's Middle-East War #3... (or 4? sorry, loosing count)
    •  So what then, do you suppose would entail (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lepanto, allenjo, schumann, corvo

      "pushing back"? Here is Pat Lang's assesment of the situation:

      I agree with Dempsey that IS is an existential threat to all the regional governent except Israel and Iran.   Having said that, I remind everyone again that it was the US invasion of Iraq and destruction of the existing Iraqi state as well as US agitation leading to the Arab Spring disasters that were the root causes for the disorder that now infests Iraq, Syria and potentially all the other Arab States.  It was one of the main functions of the previous governments to suppress the Sunni extremists who have now found their voice in IS.  We broke these governments and now we truly and unfortunately own the mess.   We are going to war against IS.  This time there should be a declaration of war by Congress.  That would clean up a lot of the legal issues that plagued the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
      You agree with that OPOL? I am not at all sure that I do.
  •  I'd be curious to see how many countries... (0+ / 0-)

    ....we have military advisors working in.

    I don't think it necessarily leads to a military occupation.

  •  Daily Kos will be the last to know. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bob Love, divineorder, corvo



    For an idea that does not at first seem insane, there is no hope.
    - Albert Einstein:  Leftist, socialist, emo-prog, cosmic visionary.

    by Pluto on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:26:43 PM PDT

  •  I think we have to stop ISIS and the President (5+ / 0-)

    made sure to say that this was not ISLAM but some other ideology and they are an enemy to all people so he has the moral standing to go after them and even I think we have to.

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:26:54 PM PDT

    •  Well, yes, they're a part of Islam... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder, schumann

      Not ALL Muslims have the same beliefs as ISIS, but a not-insignificant number surely do. ISIS is successful, at least in part because they have support among the local populations, not to mention material support from Saudi Arabia, the land of Mecca. We get into trouble as Americans when we start deciding what is and what is not representative of cultures that are foreign to us. As much as we might want to believe that Islam is moderate and socially liberal, many Muslims share the same ideology as ISIS. Many don't, but enough to where ISIS has been able to successfully assume power in large swaths of the region.

      It would be as if residents of Iraq painted a picture of American Christianity as solely consisting of Glide Memorial type churches while neglecting the American Family Association type religious right movements.

      •  Support? or do people "join" out of fear of death? (0+ / 0-)

        I think the latter right now, which is not a lasting loyalty and all that money they steal from the banks, might have belonged to some people who are pretending to support them so they can keep their heads. They won't last, they don't have real support, just survival based fear surrender.

        "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

        by merrywidow on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 01:29:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, they have real support... (0+ / 0-)

          Among Iraqi Sunnis. We're making a serious mistake if we think we can just bomb a few bad actors and that Iraqi Sunnis will then be happy being relegated to permanent minority status in Iraq.

          I'm not trying to downplay the outright despicable and horrific actions that ISIS is undertaking, but I'm seeing similar mistakes being made in misreading the Iraqi people, and a complete and total lack of a plan for what comes after we drop our bombs. We're good at that part, it's what comes after that gives us the trouble.

          I think we should continue trying to get humanitarian assistance into the area. I think we should try to get as many Yezidis and other minorities into asylum as we can. I just don't see a military solution here, and if I did, I'd still say it's Saudi Arabia and Iran's turn there.

  •  Sons-a-bitches evildoers, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    codairem, schumann, corvo

    we gotta smite them. As red-blooded American defenders of liberty, not to mention democracy, it's time for us to re-visit Iraq -- and this time, we're really gonna teach those ragheads how to behave. If we can just sort them out, one from the other.

    For that, we need to rely on our superb satellite drone technology. It can spot an ant crawling on a jihadi's armpit. Zappo! No more jihadi. Foreign policy is easy, once you've got the appropriate hardware.

  •  I was against all our Middle East aggressions - (6+ / 0-)

    Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, interfering in Syria...

    but Isis would never have happened if we hadn't opened Pandora's box by invading and wrecking Iraq

    I honestly believe we should intervene and do something about Isis

    Isis is not a sovereign country, it's a pack of fanatical Islamist mercenaries who were funded (with our connivance) by our mates Qatar and Saudi to destabilize Syria so as to impede the projected Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline

    then when Assad turned out too hard a nut to crack these mercenaries morphed into Isis and turned on Iraq, exterminating helpless minorities along the way

    Isis is a criminal organization and should be wiped out asap

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:55:58 PM PDT

  •  Chris Matthews has been foaming all week (0+ / 0-)

    He came back from vacation and he's flipped out on the ISIS story.

    Now I think everyone here is sickened by the Foley murder, but that's what it is, a murder. As others have pointed out it takes so little for us to 'escalate'. Mythology and media make it almost inevitable.

    We can say we're not going back but look how quickly that sentiment can evaporate.

    Did we kill 100,000 Iraqis or more? We lost 4500 Americans, and meanwhile back home the body count from guns stack the bodies up like firewood.

    There's nothing coherent about our behavior... these last few weeks have me at a total loss.

  •  5 years ago, if someone told me we'd be going back (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VeloDramatic, native, SixSixSix, schumann, MrQA

    to war in Iraq, and the response from the liberal blogosphere would be a shrug and a yawn, I'd have called that person crazy.   And yet, here we are watching it happen.

    Every time I've thought the American Left couldn't possibly be more full of phonies and sellouts, it's proved me wrong.

    •  There is no American Left anymore, (0+ / 0-)

      didn't you get the news? What was once the American Left is now the leftward fringe part of the American Right. As exemplified by most of Kos.  And yes, many here are phonies and sell-outs, including me.

      Name me someone who's not a parasite
      and I'll go out and say a prayer for him.

                                                    -  B. Dylan

    •  Why do you love ISIS? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OuijaForestCat, codairem, MrQA, schumann

      I'm already seeing it here. Opponents of going back into Iraq are already being accused of not sufficiently hating ISIS. The similarity of painting opponents of the 2003 invasion as "friends of Saddam" is striking and unbecoming.

      Soon they'll be suggesting we move to France.

  •  To effectively counter ISIL, I think (0+ / 0-)

    the US would need to cooperate militarily with both Iran and Syria. Politically, is this even possible? Israel might not be happy, but Russia could possibly join in such an alliance.

    Here is Pat Lang's assessment of the situation, always worth paying attention to:

    You can expect to see a maximum effort by Bibi's vendu US Congress to block a nuclear deal with Iran (or any other kind of deal).  I agree with Dempsey that IS is an existential threat to all the regional governent except Israel and Iran.   Having said that, I remind everyone again that it was the US invasion of Iraq and destruction of the existing Iraqi state as well as US agitation leading to the Arab Spring disasters that were the root causes for the disorder that now infests Iraq, Syria and potentially all the other Arab States.  It was one of the main functions of the previous governments to suppress the Sunni extremists who have now found their voice in IS.  We broke these governments and now we truly and unfortunately own the mess.   We are going to war against IS.  This time there should be a declaration of war by Congress.  That would clean up a lot of the legal issues that plagued the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    I think Col. Lang is right, we are going to war against ISIL, whether we like it or not. The question remains, how much cooperation will we be able to get from our purported "enemies"?
    •  No, that's not how that's supposed to work... (0+ / 0-)
      we are going to war against ISIL, whether we like it or not.
      Yeesh. No thank you.
    •  According to the news (0+ / 0-)

      we've already been passing intelligence on ISIS whereabouts in Syria to the Assad government, whereas just a while ago, we were aiding the rebels fighting against Assad.

      Putin may have been right a year ago - Assad is no alter boy, but he is a stabilizing force.

      We may be learning a difficult lesson:  it may be the case that there are some places in the world, including a good chunk of the Middle East, where society is not politically evolved enough to effectively use a Western style government.

      For those areas, right now the choice seems to be:  (1) a repressive dictator who will abuse and murder his own people but generally leave other countries alone; or (2) religious extremists who will abuse and murder their own people and also seek to spread out and attack Western countries.  With respect to these areas, it could be the case that a democratically-oriented "Arab Spring" type of government, which derives its authority from the consent of the governed and individual rights are respected, is simply not an available choice at this point in history.

  •  I was shocked to hear the words, "air strikes (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder

    against Syria." What's left of Syria that is. That's serious escalation, from rescuing people on a mountain to total war in the ME?

  •  ISIS an existential threat to whom? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder, schumann

    Kurdistan? Stable oil supply? Maybe.

    The United States of America? Nope.

  •  IS appears to be genocidal (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, RumsfeldResign

    and well enough armed to be dangerous to anyone in its path.

    Not advocating anything, but unlike the previous US ventures in Iraq, there's a "just war" case for trying to halt their advance.

    But even the most just wars bring grief to innocents.

  •  I think we at least need to get on the same page, (0+ / 0-)

    as a nation, concerning the NAME of this enemy - ISIS or ISIL - before we march off half-cocked.

  •  Hagel: ISIS is “Beyond Just A Terrorist Group" (0+ / 0-)

    http://link.foreignpolicy.com/...

    Has kind of ring to it, no?

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