Skip to main content

FERGUSON CREATES A NEW TWIST IN THE OPEN-CARRY DEBATE

A few days ago, Black gun-rights activists in Texas protested police brutality in Ferguson by exercising their rights to openly carry firearms through the streets of South Dallas.

Dozens of members of the newly-formed Huey P. Newton Gun Club, named after the co-founder of the Black Panther Party, marched with rifles, shotguns and AR-15s down MLK Boulevard. The ninety-minute, peaceful demonstration wound up at a restaurant where police officers were eating lunch.

It is difficult to imagine the process of interpretation, the tectonic grinding of signifiers within the minds of white, conservative, second-amendment, open carry enthusiasts. The dark uniforms and solemn looks alarmingly evocative of militant black activism from an epoch recalled without fondness; the unaccounted for and alarming consequence of the ‘open carry’ culture they exhort; the confused affirmation of the idea in principle of people walking down the street en masse laden with guns and unimpeded by anyone because they’re within their rights, grating against an even stronger reluctance toward the idea in practice; or at least in this instance.

Other onlookers may have simply paused in the street, narrowed their eyes for a moment, then shrugged their shoulders or even nodded their approval; though perhaps with a subliminal hope that the event was just a one-off.

It could be assumed that the black open-carry demonstrators care a lot more about addressing racial profiling and harassment and abuse of black people by police than they do about the second amendment; and it may even have occurred to some of them that if it’s okay for white people like Cliven Bundy to take up arms against the “tyrannical” U.S. government, then it’s only a short logical leap to say it’s okay for black people to defend themselves against what many see as the nation’s oppressive, racist, and overly-militarized police.

A few months prior, a controversial group called Open Carry Texas, didn’t endear themselves to African Americans when they intended, but ultimately abandoned, an attempt to march through an African-American neighborhood in Houston. “I’m going to tell you something homie, this is Fifth Ward, you ain’t coming in here running nothing,” a community activist informed them. In the end, they protested by eating fried chicken and and holding up “Gun Control=Slavery” signs in front of their congresswoman’s office.

There are variations as to the interpretation of open carry. Twenty states, including Texas, have what is referred to as permissive open carry. In this instance, a state has passed full preemption of all laws – limiting or eliminating the ability of local governments to regulate the possession or carrying of firearms. A permit or license is not required to open carry. In many places, you only need a permit if you wish to conceal a handgun. That means if you want to walk around with an AK-47, AR-15 or even a Remington 870 pump-action shotgun, no problem—so long as you don’t conceal it, or go around threatening people with it.

The open-carry advocate will argue that it comes down to how you present yourself. If you wear baggy pants, a backwards hat and open carry by shoving your pistol in your pants and tucking in the shirt around it, then you may be seen as a threat by citizens or police, no matter what race you are, they argue. The same prejudices will be levied against you as you will be perceived as a danger rather than a trusted member of society. If you dress in decent pants, a polo shirt, comb your hair, and use a nice holster to open carry on your belt, then you have a significantly lower risk of having any sort of overreaction to your open carry, again, regardless of your race.

This of course discounts the universally acknowledged reality, that, due in large part to the high statistical incidence of black gun crime, black men are susceptible to profiling from the authorities, who are going to be generally more twitchy and less willing to give the benefit of the doubt in open carry scenarios.

Paradoxically, in some instances, it might be safer for a black man to carry openly than to conceal. With open carry, the gun is right there for all to see and might preclude some of the “I thought he was holding a gun” errors.

This might almost seem like a glib consideration; but consider what happened in Beaver Creek Ohio, just four days before Michael Brown was gunned down. A young black man named John Crawford was casually browsing in a Walmart store. LeeCee Johnson, the mother of Crawford’s children, was on a cell phone call with Crawford when officers approached him. “We was just talking. He said he was at the video games playing videos and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were. And the next thing I know, he said ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him,” she said, adding: “And I could hear him just crying and screaming. I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human.”

The thing is, Ohio has permissive open carry; so even if Crawford had been holding an actual rifle loaded with real bullets, he was well within his Ohioan rights to do so, just like all the other open-carry activists throughout the country who walk around in public and visit major chain stores without so much as a police scolding, let alone a confrontation with police or an actual shooting.

Relatives of John Crawford say they’ve contacted civil rights organizations because they believe the shooting was not justified, and it will be interesting to see how that unfolds.

There is one notion that could disturb white, conservative, second-amendment, open carry enthusiasts even more than the sight of dozens of black members of the Huey P. Newton Gun Club marching with rifles, shotguns and AR-15s down MLK Boulevard in Dallas: At a gas station in Riverside Ohio, in 2012: A white man entered a store openly carrying his weapon. Police confronted him. No weapons were drawn, and there were no commands to give up the gun, just a stern conversation. He was asked to provide identification, but he refused and was then arrested … and then released. Alive. The charges were eventually dropped, and he is now suing the police department for $3.6 million.

A black “thug”, wearing “baggy pants and a backwards hat” (or a hoodie, for that matter) enters a store openly carrying a gun. Police confront him. He is asked to provide identification, but refuses, and is arrested – and the situation ends up with him arguing that his constitutional right to have his gun are being trampled on, and he successfully sues the police department for 3.6 million. That could very well cause many right-wingers’ heads to explode.

Second amendment advocates will say they prefer open carry to concealed carry for these reasons:
Its my constitutional right
Its less of a hassle
Its more comfortable
Its more efficient for self defense
It makes people think twice before breaking the law in a violent manner to others
It deters criminals
It makes others (with common sense) feel safer
It encourages people to purchase a firearm of their own
Its a good conversation starter
Its the American way

While I acknowledge the sincerity and brevity of these points, it doesn’t alter the fact that, at the end of the day, if you go into a restaurant with a Glock, or a Remington 870 pump action, you look like a a total jerk off.

FROM: http://sheppardpost.com/

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  America loves the Wild West style best of all if (12+ / 0-)

    truth be known.  So now we know we are, many of us, armed.  Let us see if those who advocate for open carry laws everywhere can also engage in an on going revelation about their view of our racial history.  I think, An American Truth and Reconciliation meeting needs to be convened to start planning for a country wide meet-up on race and reconciliation, maybe forgiveness here and there.  The revelation exchanged may lay a foundation for our long term future survival as an intact people, who surmounted and dealt with their past.  We can carefully examine the past so it no longer haunts, wounds and distorts our future.  

    •  I texted this to my son earlier this week (6+ / 0-)
      I think, An American Truth and Reconciliation meeting needs to be convened
      I am just blown away by the total lack of understanding on the part of so many White people to this country's racial history and current situation.  The need for education is critical.

      The past 50 years we: -Ended Jim Crow. -Enacted the Voting Rights Act. -Attained reproductive rights (contraceptive & abortion). -Moved toward pay equity. Republicans want to take our country back. I WON'T GO BACK!

      by petesmom on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:20:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Black gun nuts are still gun nuts (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hnichols, ichibon

    Repeal the 2d Amendment

    •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude, myboo

      I rather suspect these guys are more interested in human rights than gun rights.

    •  The best way to repeal the (5+ / 0-)

      2nd Amendment is for lots of black folk to start running around with assault weapons. Nothing would make the NRA rethink its entire gamut of positions than for them to see minorities enjoying their gun rights.

      •  I am truly afraid (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pitbullgirl65, ypochris

        that within the turbid mental processes of the NRA you will find the expectation that police departments around the country, through incidents like the one where the kid with a toy rifle was killed in a Walmart store*, will tacitly communicate to minorities that the Second Amendment doesn't really include them.

        *The Bundy Ranch Backdown also communicated the same idea only in a subtler way. It doesn't take much imagination to realize what would have happened if a law enforcement group was confronted by a contingent of defiant African Americans with weapons trained on the officers. The Bundy Backdown signals how law enforcement thinks about who is covered by the Second Amendment and who will be allowed to assert the same.

        "PLEASE STOP EATING ANIMALS" Fourth Grader's Crayon Poster.

        by Pirogue on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:12:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's the NRA's dream to sell more weapons (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        splashy, myboo

        Get blacks to buy guns... get whites to buy more guns to protect themselves from blacks... get women to buy guns to protect themselves from men.

        Who wins? The Owners of the gun manufacturers, that's who.

        American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

        by atana on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 09:57:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I lived through this in the sixties (0+ / 0-)

        Eventually Rizzo's police in Philadelphia decided to take out a neighborhood razing it to the ground rather than have armed blacks.

        I can remember violence in Watts, in Florida, in Chicago, at Kent State, in hundreds of other less well publicized confrontations where various Black revolutionaries augmented with detachments of white college students who had informed themselves as to what was going on fought the system and the system crushed them.

        Now we have militarized police with tanks and SWAT teams cutting off the flow of money and voting rights to poor inner cities that have had no legal employment for half their population for decades.

        There are blocks and neighborhoods where gangs bringing in money from drug sales and arms sales have been and still are the only source of income.

        It comes down to a cringeworthy slice of life we are all going to become acquainted with sooner rather than later if Republicans manage to have their way.

        "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

        by rktect on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:19:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Liberal capitalist: Get after it. (2+ / 0-)

      Til then I will applaud these marchers.

      Dallas Morning News photo of the march here:

      http://www.dallasnews.com/...

      The DMN's report includes these grafs:

      Several car drivers passing by the area honked and waved at the protesters.

      Established about three months ago, the Huey P. Newton Gun Club calls for an end to shootings by police of unarmed individuals — particularly blacks. It also asks people to consider carrying weapons “to protect themselves,” according to a news release.

      The diarist paraphrases:
      A few days ago, Black gun-rights activists in Texas protested police brutality in Ferguson by exercising their rights to openly carry firearms through the streets of South Dallas.

      Dozens of members of the newly-formed Huey P. Newton Gun Club, named after the co-founder of the Black Panther Party, marched with rifles, shotguns and AR-15s down MLK Boulevard. The ninety-minute, peaceful demonstration wound up at a restaurant where police officers were eating lunch.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Van Cliburn, Steve Earle, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

      by BlackSheep1 on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 04:31:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What's with the uniforms? (0+ / 0-)

        I applaud their goal "for an end to shootings by police of unarmed individuals — particularly blacks" and would support them, and I also get that the Black Panthers wore uniforms like this, but it just reinforces an aggressive, battle ready image that ultimately leads to nowhere but violence.   I do not think the police should be all camo'ed up like they're in a war zone either.  Image and presentation speak volumes and all I'm seeing and hearing is that folks are getting ready for battle.

        I'm sure the NRA and the weapons manufacturers are just tickled pink.

        America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, uh...um...and if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

        by Back In Blue on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:09:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Looks like some of 'em can afford black BDUs (0+ / 0-)

          I don't see a "uniform" for the club there. Few of these folks may do security work, which also generally comes with surplus  BDUs.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Van Cliburn, Steve Earle, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

          by BlackSheep1 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:09:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  They're all in black, all wearing boots with pants (0+ / 0-)

            tucked in.  It may not be "standard issue" but it's clear they put some thought into this.  It makes sense if you're trying to communicate strength and unity, but for me the choice is aggressive.  Their body language speaks the same.  I empathize, but I don't think it's wise.  Again, same goes for cops in fatigues.   When you dress up for war that's what you get.

            America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, uh...um...and if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

            by Back In Blue on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:54:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Try it, and so called "gun nuts" of all races (0+ / 0-)

      will come out of the woodwork to unite against anyone who would compromise our bill of rights.

      During the Bush years, the ACLU's membership skyrocketed because peoples' rights were being threatened. What do you think will happen to NRA and the "gun lobby" if the 2nd is threatened?

  •  They love this. It is part of the shit hits the (9+ / 0-)

    fan they have been planning for so long. The OK Corral gun battle in all 50 states. Armageddon. Mad Max. Red Dawn.

    Their heads aren't exploding. They are exploding down there.

    Protest that works comment by nomandates Registration Table Change the culture 100% registration.

    by 88kathy on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 05:30:06 AM PDT

  •  Pictures of the Newton Gun Club also showed (5+ / 0-)

    that they were marching with the "Black Power Fist" upraised as well.

    "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 05:30:49 AM PDT

  •  It makes people with common sense comfortable? (20+ / 0-)

    Where did that crock come from.  If I'm anywhere and some white dude walks in "open carrying", I'm out of there like it was on fire.  And I'll be making a 911 call on my cell phone.   If a nimrod is walking around with a semi-automatic weapon of war for no identifiable reason other than it's his Constitutional "right", I'm going to interpret the situation as a threat to social order and get away from it immediately.  If I happened to be pushing a shopping cart full of merchandise, the cart will be abandoned.  If I'm eating in a restaurant, the meal will go uneaten and the bill unpaid.  I'm out of there.  The store owner will simply have to deal with it.
    Any discussion of exercising one's "Second Amendment Rights" without a corresponding recognition of one's Constitutional Responsibilities is meaningless.   Leave your guns at home, locked up so your children can't play with them.

    •  Not comforatble (6+ / 0-)

      I have the same reaction: seeing a gun rings my danger alarms.  I never feel safer when there are lots of guns around.  These days, there are heavily armed uniformed soldiers wandering around Grand Central Station in NYC and in most airports, and it creeps me out.

      Indeed, my first reaction is that people swagger around with the biggest possible gun in order to intimidate those around them; my thought is that the gun carrier WANTS everyone around them to be uncomfortable.  In my mind, I can understand no other reason to carry around a large gun in public except to threaten everyone around.

      Occasionally, these armed people explain themselves this way: "so other people get comfortable seeing guns".  This confirms for me that the gun owner knows s/he is making others fearful.  I think the gun owners like making others fearful.

      Imagine if I went around coughing in others' faces, and explained myself saying "it's normal physiology, people should be comfortable seeing others coughing" - you'd laugh at me, right?

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 07:31:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You've posted their article in full. (0+ / 0-)

    That's a violation of fair use & copyright.

    A drowning man can not learn to swim. -- Chris Lonsdale

    by Rikon Snow on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 06:46:29 AM PDT

  •  About those "black gun crimes" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite
    "... due in large part to the high statistical incidence of black gun crime, black men are susceptible to profiling from the authorities,... "
    I would like to see those statistics on black gun crimes.  Is there truly a high incidence of black gun crimes?

    We know that per capita blacks end up with more criminal charges, more criminal convictions, and in prison more than whites.  We know crime-for-crime, blacks get longer sentences than whites.

    Criminologists have two theories for this over-representation of blacks in the criminal justice system: 1) black people do more crime than whites, and therefore get more charges, sentences, etc. than do whites; and 2) the white criminal justice system targets blacks more intensely than whites, so that blacks get more arrests, more charges, more convictions, more jail time, etc.

    So when you present your statistical evidence of greater black gun crimes, keep in mind that it is the white-majority criminal justice system that keeps track of what is and what is not a crime, and what offenses will and will not result in an arrest , etc.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 07:05:01 AM PDT

    •  Crime has to do with poverty more than race (0+ / 0-)

      Since more African Americans are in poverty, you can expect a disproportionate amount of crime to occur.  Aside from relatively minor distinctions, I would argue that the same problems that exist in our inner cities are identical to the ones that are found in our rural or suburban trailer parks.  

      •  Incidence vs. Cause (0+ / 0-)

        I suggest we put aside the issue of what causes crime, and first focus on the incidence of crime.

        We know that blacks are in prison more than whites (relative to the proportions in the population), but what about the actual incidence of crime?  Is it true that blacks commit more crimes than whites?  Or is it instead true that blacks are targeted for greater policing than are whites (meaning that blacks are seen more often as criminals, blacks get disproportionately accused of crimes, blacks get disproportionately convicted of crimes (perhaps because of poverty resulting in less effective legal representation), and blacks get longer sentences for crimes than whites)?

        The author claims there is a high incidence of black gun crime.  Is that a fact?  Is there also a high incidence of white gun crime?  Do blacks commit more gun crime than whites?

        And the really big question: absent a white majority criminal justice system which we rely on to count crimes, would we see different statistics on the incidence of crimes by blacks?

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:47:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A very legitimate question (0+ / 0-)

          considering that minorities constitute the majority of drug arrests, but the majority of drug users are Whites.

          It is very possible - likely, even - that what you posit is the truth; that more Blacks are arrested for gun crimes because of the proven fact that Blacks are targeted by law enforcement, not because they actually commit more crimes.

    •  Hi Hugh, (0+ / 0-)

      The number one crime for blacks is non-violent drug crime - that's what is clogging up the prisons, and tragically so. Obama passed legislation called the fair-sentencing act (one of those dozens of things that got ignored by the media) and it seems like it might be having an effect.

  •  More About Blacks and Guns (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ichibon

    If you look at who gets shot in America and why, some funny things pop out.

    In America, the majority of whites killed by gunshot die from an act of suicide.  The majority of blacks killed by gunshot die by an act of homicide.  So when whites are shot dead, it is primarily due to a self-inflicted shooting.  When blacks are shot dead, it is primarily because someone else shot them (here: http://www.dailykos.com/...).

    Another interesting wrinkle: those fatal suicidal shootings among whites generally occur in rural areas.  Yet, those homicidal shootings of blacks generally occur in urban areas.

    So blacks and whites in America experience gun violence in very different ways.

    The one constant is the guns: where there are more guns, there are more people getting shot dead.  This is true both for suicidal and homicidal shootings.

    While I applaud the efforts of black social organizations to seek remedies for the institutionalized racism of the police, it seems to me that publicly carrying around guns can only result in greater shooting injuries.  

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 07:14:23 AM PDT

    •  "(W)here there are more guns, (2+ / 0-)

      there are more people getting shot dead."

      While this is true, it does not necessarily follow that where there are more guns, more people are dying.

      An interesting effect of the Brady Bill was that it reduced firearms suicide. However, overall suicide rates were not affected. Just as many people killed themselves, they just didn't use guns to do it.

      No relationship has ever been shown between gun regulation and reduced levels of homicide or suicide. That is why proponents of gun regulation are always VERY careful to specify "firearms deaths", or in your case, "SHOT dead".

      •  Incorrect (0+ / 0-)

        You data is poor and your conclusions are entirely wrong.

        Two western industrialized nations (Canada and Australia) instituted strong gun regulations in recent decades and saw decreases in homicides and suicides in the years following.  This based on records and statistics using public data, published in peer-reviewed science and health journals.  You can read about it here: http://www.dailykos.com/...

        The appropriate conclusion from this data is that strong gun regulations DO result in fewer gunshot injuries and fewer firearm deaths.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:25:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I hope they have a lot of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude

    people with video recording devices following them because  it seems it would be easy for the police to manufacture an "incident" that, absent video, could be claimed was initiated by the demonstrators.

    Given the level of alarm that a group of blacks defiantly wielding heavy-weight weapon would inspire in the white conservative community, I think it is safe to assume that police would feel they would enjoy the benefit of the doubt for claims they were provoked by the demonstrators in the event of an escalating confrontation. Open carry is not a right that in their minds is extended to minorities. Isn't its main purpose, after all, to enable whites to protect themselves from the very minorities who they see as usurping their own privileges. Minorities actually asserting the same gun rights as whites is a usurpation they cannot countenance. In this state of mind they will be ready to believe, or if not actually believe then to at least accept, any narrative the authorities might choose to advance.

    It seems that full video coverage would be prudent insurance reducing the likelihood of  any such scenario playing out.

    Of course I have no way of knowing how the Dallas Police might react, I have no direct knowledge of the organization. I do, however, know the sad history of how police organizations have treated minorities in this country and think it would make sense to prepare for any contingency.

    They also have to be concerned that some rogue cop, acting alone some time after the demonstration, would take it upon himself to set an example by manufacturing an incident with one of the demonstrators where it is made to look like the demonstrator imperiled the life of the officer* while the same time getting the word out in the African American community that this would be the fate of more demonstrators if they continued their activities.

    Again I am have no way of knowing how likely any of these things are, but I am hoping that the demonstrators have taken into account all such possibilities.

    *I am sure they could find footage from the demonstration where the "perpetrator", possibly through careful editing, is made to look menacing and violent. It could be used in much the same way as the convenience store footage is being used in the Michael Brown incident.

    "PLEASE STOP EATING ANIMALS" Fourth Grader's Crayon Poster.

    by Pirogue on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 07:44:17 AM PDT

  •  My thumbs up (0+ / 0-)

    was not only for the content but also for the phrase, "tectonic grinding of signifiers". Loved it.

    "PLEASE STOP EATING ANIMALS" Fourth Grader's Crayon Poster.

    by Pirogue on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 08:20:03 AM PDT

  •  Every pro-2nd A blog I have seen has been (6+ / 0-)

    supportive of this.

    http://bearingarms.com/...

    Kory Watkins, leader of Open Carry Tarrant, perhaps one of the most well-known Dallas area open carry groups, likes what he saw in the actions of the Huey P. Newton Gun Club.
    “I was not there today but I am in full support of this group,” Watkins posted on Facebook. “This is a very strong statement that they will not tolerate what happen (sic) in, Ferguson. This is good!”

    Open Carry Texas has also been supportive.
    http://www.guns.com/...

    People who support open carry support people who open carry.

    Do you support the right of the members of Huey P Newton Gun Club to open carry or do you want to take that right away from them?
    Be careful-your head may explode.

    •  Doesn't suprise me one bit (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cassandra spoke then loled

      However, the Huey P. Newton Gun Club at least from one reports has grown out of the New Black Panther Party.

      The source isn't as reliable as I would like and the news coverage isn't particularity complete so I can't call it definitive.  

      I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

      by DavidMS on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 01:49:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  who cares what they grew out of, I'm just glad to (4+ / 0-)

        see more people carrying.....

        I do find it very funny though that so many here think that pro gun people will be against this....most ain't ol Ronnie.....People who support carry tend to support carry for all legally allowed....I know I do...

        Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
        I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
        Emiliano Zapata

        by buddabelly on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 01:59:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is a diffrence in carying to cary vs cary to (2+ / 0-)

          be difficult.  I support people lawfully concealed carrying.  I am less supportive of open cray but believe it should be legal.  I am not supportive of armed marches by organizations that promote racial hatred, oppose democracy or threaten the basic rights of others.  

          I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

          by DavidMS on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 02:35:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  DavidMS: I hate CCL. I would rather open carry (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ban nock

            be the law of the land everywhere in the USA.

            There are two reasons:

            I would know which twitchy individuals not to get too close to in a crowded room.

            And the firearm (or whatever else I may be carrying) would be easier to get to should the need arise.

            Full disclosure: I wore / carried firearms as part of my job for years, in the service.

            Threat assessment's a hell of a lot easier with open carry.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Van Cliburn, Steve Earle, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

            by BlackSheep1 on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 04:42:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree with the threat assesment statement (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BlackSheep1, ban nock

              However, a properly designed and implemented CHL licensing program will adequately weed out people who are too twitchy to care a firearm in public.  CHL licensing should also involve electronic training simulations (like what law enforcement uses) so that prospective licensees can be trained in more stressful enviroments safely to make legally correct shoot/no shoot decisions.  

              I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

              by DavidMS on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 05:23:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'd go along with requiring that training BUT (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ban nock, DavidMS

                I'd want to ensure it didn't come with additional fees / restrictions, because that's another way to stop "certain groups" from exercising their rights equally.

                Poor people, for instance. A CCL is not a trivial expense, which is another reason I despise 'em.

                LBJ, Lady Bird, Van Cliburn, Steve Earle, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

                by BlackSheep1 on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 05:26:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  I doubt the cops would behave differently (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ypochris

    I'd guess that they'd shoot an armed black man just as soon as they'd shoot an unarmed one.

    "Cop logic" would probably say:

    Just because you're openly carrying a rifle or shotgun doesn't mean you don't have a handgun concealed somewhere.

    If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

    by Major Kong on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 11:39:59 AM PDT

  •  Rather than amosexual's heads exploding it seems (2+ / 0-)

    the winky wankers (cute non offensive name for anti gun nuts) are having problems with this Huey P Newton Gun Club open carrying. I don't read gun websites, perhaps you could point me towards some that have issues with the HPNGC.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 03:08:10 PM PDT

  •  I'm not a huge fan of open carry regardless (0+ / 0-)

    of race because I think it scares people and makes them become anti-gun. However, I think that more minorities openly and apologetically exercising their RKBA is a very good thing. RKBA is just one of many rights that minorities have historically been denied.

    Anti-gunners frequently say that citizens don't need guns for self defense because the police will protect them. But as we have seen in Ferguson and god knows how many other American cities, that really isn't the case. If the police won't protect you, who will?

    Every group is stronger with diversity, gun owners definitely included. This is also bad news for certain anti-gunners who choose to advance their beliefs with almost completely false accusations of racism rather than legitimate discourse. With greater racial diversity among gun owners, the ever popular "gun owners=racist" talking point will sound even more stupid than it already does- and that's saying something.  

Click here for the mobile view of the site