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From CBS:

A group of Satanists planning to stage a "black Mass" next month at a civic center is using a communion wafer stolen from the Catholic Church, according to a lawsuit filed Wednesday by the archbishop of Oklahoma City.

Archbishop Paul Coakley said in the lawsuit, which was filed in Oklahoma County District Court, that satanic group Dakhma of Angra Mainyu and leader Adam Daniels unlawfully obtained the consecrated host to be used in the Mass. A consecrated host is a wafer of bread that has been blessed and that Catholics believe is the body of Jesus.

According to the lawsuit, only ordained Catholic ministers or people approved by their local bishop can handle the consecrated host.

"Catholics believe Jesus Christ is truly present under the form of bread and wine in the Holy Eucharist and it is the source and summit of our faith," Coakley wrote in a statement. "The local organizers of this satanic inversion intend to use a stolen consecrated Host obtained illicitly from a Catholic church to desecrate it as a sacrifice to Satan."

I'm now seeing reports that no church in Oklahoma gave them the wafers. Instead, they were given to the Temple by a priest in Turkey.

The Catholic Church wants to control the business between the Temple and a Turkish priest.

Even worse, the lawsuit has been dropped after it succeeded in bullying the Temple to hand over wafers that were not even given to them by any Catholic church in Oklahoma.

The Archbishop who filed the suit is claiming ownership over something that came from Turkey that he never even saw until now.

We always how from the religious right how "intolerant" we are. Now the world's biggest religious organization is suing a religious minority because they don't like what they will do with something that was given to them by someone else.

I've heard no conservatives speak out against the Catholic Church, condemning their intolerance of the practices of the Satanists.

Those a*sholes oppose any and all discrimination protections for LGBT people, because God forbid someone might object to it because of religion.

But now, they've successfully sued a religious group to prevent them from conducting their sacred ritual.

And the reason? They object to it because of religion.

They want their religious beliefs to not just allow discrimination, but to prohibit other groups from exercising their religion.

In their minds, religious liberty is for them and them only.

Originally posted to leftprogressive on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:35 PM PDT.

Also republished by Street Prophets .

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Comment Preferences

  •  ROFLMAO b/c (7+ / 0-)

    the Satanists are the biggest supporters the Catholics (and other RW Christianists) could ever have: they profess to believe in the Devil.

    The rest of us? Not so much. Not even leftist Christians, who tend to be more Jesus-centric and less Great Big Thunder God Gonna Strike You Down! Now!

    English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street. E. B. White

    by Youffraita on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:52:20 PM PDT

  •  Is this a cause you really want to align with? (7+ / 0-)
    Daniels previously went by the alias Adam Smith until he was revealed to be a sex offender by another Satanist in 2010. Daniels said that the charges stemmed from "inappropriate touching" of an inmate that took place while he was serving as a guard at a correctional center in McLoud, Oklahoma.
    From the 2010 schism (do satanists have schisms?):
    A Satanist group that planned to have a mock exorcism at the Civic Center downtown is now deeply divided after one of the founders was expelled from the church because he's a registered sex offender.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:52:20 PM PDT

    •  I don't align with them (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jayden, sturunner

      just because I protest the Catholic Church suing them.

      •  Well, they were just trolling the Catholic Church (4+ / 0-)

        for fun, anyway, right? They got some publicity.

        You can't make this stuff up.

        by David54 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:04:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why the protest? (8+ / 0-)

        Neither you nor I may value that consecrated host, but the church does. If someone got hold of your valuables, and announced the intention to use them in a way you found offensive, you'd just tolerantly let them?

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:17:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Catholic church doesn't own what has left (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jayden, LuvSet

          its possession.  From the Vice article apparently the Turkish priest did not know what Daniels' was using them for, but still the Turkish priest gave or sold them.  If the RCC doesn't like it maybe they should look into modifying their rules/procedures for the giving away or selling of wafers.

          •  Was there even a Turkish priest at all? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wee Mama, lina

            The only information on that comes from Daniels - the same guy outed as using an alias to hide is status as registered sex offender. Do we want to take his word for it?

            Meanwhile, how is it not the church's property once it left their possession? If my employee steals stuff from my warehouse and tries to sell it, it's still my stuff.

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:26:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  This guy does not say what he told this (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Catte Nappe, Pi Li

            Turkish priest to get him to send consecrated hosts. That's key to me.  If he lied about why he wanted them , or even concealed why he wanted them, that's theft by fraud.  For example, if he led them to believe he was a Catholic that wanted the consecrated hosts for some use that comported with that religion, that's fraud.  He certainly, according to him,  didn't tell they why he wanted their most "sacred" property, but he doesn't say what he told them.  If he lied or misled them as to why he wanted that property, that's fraud. As so the people whose property he fraudulently acquired are entitled to their property back.  

          •  The Church also does not own what never was in its (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LuvSet, YsosadisticGOP

            possession.  I don't see anything here which demostrates that the alleged wafer in question was an RC consecrated one. There are, after all, several other Eucharistically active Christian denominations.

            And it would also depend on how it was, if the RC were the consecrating entity, that the alleged wafer left its possession. Nothing on that either.

            One is left with the notion that the RC treats itself as the sole owner of all consecrated materials, no matter who did the consecratiing, when and under what conditions. Not a defensible legal position, but then the premise here is that the little Satanist organization may not have had the funds to defend this attack, althugh the chances of RC winning are nil.

        •  If I sold my valuables (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          then I would no longer have a say in how they're treated.

          •  And if your employee stole your valuables? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wee Mama, johnny wurster

            Would you still have no say?

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:30:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Did I miss something? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Did the Turkish priest steal the wafers? Or was he authorized to sell them as a representative of the church? If an employee has authorization to sell product then it's not stealing when someone buys them.

              •  No priest is authorized to "sell" consecrated (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Pi Li

                hosts.  None.  Zilch.  Zippo.  There are strict rules in that Church about not only how to handle consecrated hosts, but even who can handle them.  Priests only give consecrated hosts to Catholics -- it's against the most basic rule of that church to give them to anyone not baptized a Catholic.  And priests only give a bunch of  consecrated hosts to someone who is going to use them in accordance with the teachings of that religion -- such as to bring them to Catholics who can't come to Church because they are sick or hospitalized.  

                So the big question he DOESN'T answer is, what did he tell that Turkish Priest so as to get those consecrated hosts?  If he lied to, or misled, the priest to get them, that's theft by fraud.  

                •  So the Turkish priest asks (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  "What will you be using these for?" and the Satan worshiper guy answers "For mass." I imagine the next question from the Turk was "How many do you need?"

                  I'm not seeing any theft or fraud. Maybe a lack of specific communication but that's about it.

                  I wonder if there's a special RCC ritual for cleansing wafers that have been touched by the hands of Satanists? Kind of like an exorcism but instead of casting out the demons inside Linda Blair or Emily Rose they purge the cookies, so to speak.

                  •  That's fraud. Pure and simple. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Pi Li, VClib

                    If he led the priest to believe he's Catholic, and would be using them in some Catholic service, that's fraud.  If the "lack of communication" is intentional on his part, that's fraud.   If he intentionally concealed who he was and why he wanted the property, that's fraud.  

                    What do you suppose he said when the priest asked, "who are you and why do you want these?"  I can assure you that he intentionally concealed the relevant information because he knew that if he told the truth, he wouldn't get them.  Intentionally concealing information so as to fool someone is fraud.  Fraud is based on deception.  The deception doesn't have to be only an explicit statement of a lie.  The deception can be intentionally concealing information for the purpose of misleading someone for your own benefit  

                    It's like a person coming to you and saying that "I really believe in helping the homeless especially when they are veterans.  Look, there's a homeless guy on the corner. Why don't you give me $100?" And then he goes out drinking with your $100.   Sure, he didn't actually SAY he was going to give the homeless guy your $100.  But that's not "lack of specific communication."  That's fraud.  

              •  I think we can safely take it (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                coffeetalk, jayden, nocynicism

                No priests are authorized to sell consecrated hosts to Satanists.

                “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                by Catte Nappe on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:49:19 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Are you arguing that Daniels crime is worse than (0+ / 0-)

      what many priests have done?

  •  A catholic priest in Turkey is as much a part o... (5+ / 0-)

    A catholic priest in Turkey is as much a part of the Catholic Church as a priest here. The Church can certainly "interfere" with the dealings of its employees and agents wherever they are.

    •  And especially when the person admitted (5+ / 0-)

      that he essentially got the hosts from a Catholic priest in Turkey under false pretenses (the priest didn't know what he wanted them for, according to the admission in the linked article).

      Daniels told VICE News that he was able to obtain the wafers from a priest in Turkey, who was apparently unaware of his intentions.

      "They are claiming that I have stolen their property, which I have not," he said. "I had consecrated wafers mailed to me from Turkey."

      Unless he wants people to believe that a Catholic priest told him, "sure, I don't care why you want a bunch of consecrated hosts, I'll send them to you," some might suspect he got possession of Church property fraudulently.  Catholic priests aren't supposed to allow anyone to have those other than the Eucharistic minsters in their own church (I've seen them bring hosts to hospitals, for example, for Catholic patients).  If he lied to someone to get those consecrated hosts, that's stealing them through fraud -- no different than if someone convinces you he's Aunt Betty's long lost son so you give him Aunt Betty's family heirlooms.  

      Once the Church got their "sacred" (to them anyway) property back, they dropped the lawsuit, which is exactly as it should be.  

  •  ?? Watch Change in Old Movies From 1932 to 1934. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    There you will see Catholic tolerance vs the national stage. The Catholic League for Decency that is.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:19:55 PM PDT

  •  Surely you don't have ownership (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden, blueoasis

    over what you voluntarily gave to someone else.

    •  Seems it wasn't voluntarily given (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pi Li

      If this Turkish priest actually exists at all.

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:31:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Let's say a store employee voluntarily gives me... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pi Li, Wee Mama, coffeetalk, Catte Nappe, VClib

      Let's say a store employee voluntarily gives me store merchandise when he shouldn't have. Can the store get it back from me? Yep.

    •  Not if you defraud the person who gave it to you. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      If you mislead him about who you are (maybe by telling a priest you are a Catholic?) and why you are entitled to the property, that's fraud.  And that person is entitled to his property back.  

      Even he does not say that the supposed Turkish priest was aware of who he was and what he wanted them for.  

  •  And the best part of the article: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    A separate satanic group is trying to build a 7-foot-tall statue of Satan at the Oklahoma state Capitol. The New York-based group Satanic Temple says state legislators opened up the door for the statue after the Legislature authorized a privately funded Ten Commandments monument at the Capitol that was erected in 2012.

    American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

    by atana on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:47:00 PM PDT

    •  Kind of astonishing isn't it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wilderness voice

      To have all these different active Satanic groups in a place like Oklahoma. Definitely goes against stereotype.

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:55:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What happened to tolerance? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis, LuvSet

    Hate to break it to you, but it hasn't existed much in the upper levels of the Church to begin with, though you do see individual and local examples of it.

  •  The tolerance angle is a red herring. (3+ / 0-)

    The Church wanted its property back and it got it back. The church was not suing to stop the gathering or to stop the ritual. Now that the wafer is returned everyone can go back to practicing whatever their religion might be.

  •  Republished to Street Prophets. nt (0+ / 0-)
  •  Amusing To Watch Arguing Over Cookies That Are (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    saustin3333, LuvSet, atana, MargaretPOA

    posessed with an imaginery sky fairy.

    Pretty silly if it weren't so sad that we are all required to adhere to the silliness.

    "I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger 2003

    by kerplunk on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:47:15 PM PDT

    •  Hilarious in fact (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I just can't come up with anything but exasperation for either side of this stupid quarrel. Alas for humanity that we are still beholden to deists.

      "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

      by MargaretPOA on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:50:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  How do you know the wafers were even consecrated? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LuvSet, YsosadisticGOP

    When my husband and I were engaged, as an inter-faith couple (I'm Catholic, he's agnostic) we had to attend extra classes as part of our pre-Canan requirements.  During our walk-through of a Catholic Mass, each of the non-Catholics was offered a communion wafer, unconsecrated of course, so that they would know what they taste like.  The wafers only become holy for us after they have been consecrated.  Then they are communion hosts, signifying the body of Christ.  Until then, you could play tiddly winks with them and there would be no disrespect.

  •  If an imam in Turkey (0+ / 0-)

    mailed the Temple a quran and they planned to desecrate it, and a Muslim group sued to force them to hand over the quran, everyone would be outraged.

  •  You can buy them on Amazon (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LuvSet, atana

    $19 for a 1,000

    And since the difference between a consecrated and unconsecrated one is a metric ton of invisible fairy dust, I'd like to think the Satanists are laughing their asses off.

    Hillary does not have the benefit of a glib tongue.

    by The Dead Man on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:38:05 PM PDT

  •  It must take a lot of courage (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    To walk into a court and say that you're pissed because some "unauthorized" people are practicing ritual cannibalism and that's your territory...

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:29:06 AM PDT

  •  Satanic Temple not involved in this (0+ / 0-)

    The Satanic Temple is in no way involved with this Black Mass or its organizers. While I agree that the Catholics are responding in a deplorable and infantile manner, and I support the organizers' right to hold a Black Mass, I must make it clear that The Satanic Temple is not involved. TST has no idea how this event is to be conducted, the intended message, or the overall educational value as it relates to Black Mass mythology and practice. As an outside observer, these things don't matter, the organizing group has a right to do the event either way. However, TST must make certain that any credit or blame goes to the appropriate organization. Further, the organizers of this OK Black Mass have very questionable reputations in their communities that TST is unwilling to be burdened with, and the organizers have arguably worked willfully toward cultivating a sense of confusion that they are affiliated with TST.

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