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MSN is reporting that Abbas plans to appeal to the international community to set a date for Israel to withdraw to the 1967 boundary lines.

I support such an action, but I'm willing to listen to opposing views.

More below the orange calligraphy.

President Mahmoud Abbas' plan will not be without dissenters on all sides. Even those who support, as I do, statehood for Palestine, may be reasonably suspicious of Abbas' motives, seeing this as a bid to garner more power for himself. The people of Gaza had an opportunity to elect Abbas, but voted to go with Hamas. To me, supporting democracy means supporting the decision of the voters until they decide otherwise. I haven't seen much, if any, expressions from the Gazans of desire to put themselves under the authority of Abbas.

One official said that Abbas has grown disillusioned after two decades of failed efforts to reach a negotiated peace settlement with Israel. He said the Palestinians want a "fixed date" for an Israeli withdrawal from lands claimed by the Palestinians and a timetable for establishing a Palestinian state.

In an interview on Egyptian television over the weekend, Abbas said he would soon present his plans to Arab, American and European leaders.

"It is an unconventional solution, but I will not declare a war on Israel. It is a political and diplomatic solution," he said.

He declined to elaborate, saying only that he would tell the United Nations in an address next month that the Palestinians want independence immediately. "Otherwise, this opportunity will be lost forever," he said.article at MSN

It's time to move forward with this.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (16+ / 0-)

    The White House comment line is 202-456-1111. We need a million-person call-in starting now. Tell them to stop the genocide in Gaza.

    by RJDixon74135 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 07:01:44 PM PDT

  •  44% voted for Hamas in a single parliamentary e... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135, Justanothernyer

    44% voted for Hamas in a single parliamentary election 8 years ago. In context, that's about 250,000 of 1.7 million people in Gaza.

    •  Good point, Greg (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco

      Have you heard or read anything about the people of Gaza calling for new leadership?

      Personally, I think the relatively low level of violence being perpetrated by Hamas has been effective in drawing the attention of the world to the desperation of the people of Gaza and the violence that's being done against them in the form of the blockade.

      The White House comment line is 202-456-1111. We need a million-person call-in starting now. Tell them to stop the genocide in Gaza.

      by RJDixon74135 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 07:50:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  he may as well do it (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135, HoundDog, Lepanto, poco

    and Israel will probably agree. What's the point in waiting for yet more "settlements" (illegal land and water theft).

    Of course, it will be a mini vassal "state" surrounded, exploited and bombarded forever.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 07:36:42 PM PDT

    •  What makes you think Israel will agree? (5+ / 0-)

      I think Israel will again put forth the false claim that the insurmountable issue for them is east Jerusalem, more than Gaza or the West Bank. What looks obvious to me is that Israel wants not only east Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank, but also part of Lebanon including the Litani River, and part of Jordan adjacent to the Jordan.

      A pivotal question will involve what stance the United States assumes in the United Nations.

      The White House comment line is 202-456-1111. We need a million-person call-in starting now. Tell them to stop the genocide in Gaza.

      by RJDixon74135 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:13:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The issue of a state (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135

    Two big sticking points, the bigger of which is likely to be the combination of the two things you mentioned:

    He said the Palestinians want a "fixed date" for an Israeli withdrawal from lands claimed by the Palestinians and a timetable for establishing a Palestinian state.
    The latter needs to be set up as part of the former for this to work, and from his phrasing, it's not clear that's his intention.  There are a whole host of other issues involved in the establishment of a Palestinian state- water rights, refugees, arms or lack thereof, etc.  We're talking about a phenomenally complex resolution- perhaps more complex by an order of magnitude than has ever been dealt with (I mean that in terms of words).   That is, presuming we're talking about a security council resolution with teeth, which is implied in the article.  If we're talking a GA resolution, then it's more of the same.

    The other issue, ultimately, involves the issue of non-state actors- for example, what happens if a large group of Jews occupies the Old City?  In theory, of course, international law would prevent that.  In fact, what can the response be if they refuse to leave?  Or, from the other side, what if Hamas refuses to acknowledge the legitimacy of whatever settlement is agreed to in the aforementioned resolution?

    •  What will probably be more important than a (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WattleBreakfast, poco

      Security Council or General Assembly resolution (yes, more of the same) is what the article calls "the international community" and growing opposition to Israel. For example, the Israeli leadership has shown some fear of the BDS movement.

      In May of 1947, when Israel declared itself a state without asking permission from anyone, the newly created UN followed up later that year by establishing the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). UNSCOP proposed putting Jerusalem under an "international trusteeship." Not surprisingly, the Palestinians, who were the ones whose land was being taken from them, didn't agree. Maybe it's time to revive some version of that proposal.  

      The White House comment line is 202-456-1111. We need a million-person call-in starting now. Tell them to stop the genocide in Gaza.

      by RJDixon74135 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:52:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Israel declared independence in '48, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeniseDenefyou

        after the Arab Committee refused the proposal put forward by 181 and a period of mutual ethnic cleansing which, if you bother to look at history, had its roots in pogroms carried out by Arabs in the Levant since the beginning of the twentieth century.  Additionally, the ethnicity "Palestinian" didn't even exist as a identity from the rest of the Arab community until the early fifties.

        Obviously all that doesn't fit into your carefully crafted narrative to deny the Israeli right to statehood.  oh well, can't win 'em all.

        "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

        by kirrix on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:34:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're absolutely right about the year (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WattleBreakfast, poco

          I'm not here to deny the statehood of Israel at this late date, but I will say that I find the argument against a Palestinian ethnicity a specious one. I hope you're not planning to take off on some discussion of mtDNA, haplogroups, and "racial purity."

          The White House comment line is 202-456-1111. We need a million-person call-in starting now. Tell them to stop the genocide in Gaza.

          by RJDixon74135 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:15:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Palestinian" as an identity didn't have any (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DeniseDenefyou

            meaning beyond of or relating to the Mandate of Palestine.  Until the fifties it held no more meaning than "Californian" or "Nebraskan" does in the US.  The creation of that identity was largely the result of attempts to disenfranchise Palestinian Arabs by other Arabs, particularly Egyptians and Jordanians, who wanted to hold onto their own land grabs from the Israeli War of Independence.

            "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

            by kirrix on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:31:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No....where did you "learn" this? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              RJDixon74135, poco

              AS I have pointed out elsewhere, even Daniel Pipes admits to 1920...

              Palestinian (without the quotes) identity was forming out of a larger regional identity against the Ottoman Empire.

              There was an Arab revolt in the 1830s against the Ottomans...and it slowly rose out of that.   Did early Zionists "help" that along, yes...it certainly clarified the idea...before WW1.

              The quotes around "Palestinian" are bullshit.

            •  Not buying it. Sure, under the Ottoman Empire... (0+ / 0-)

              Palestine was a territorial "Department", not a sovereign state. But to the people who lived in and around Jerusalem, Gaza, Safed, Nablus, Ramle, and Hebron it was "home" for generations.

              Suppose that Japan had prevailed in WWII, occupied California, and then set up a client state to be ruled by Spaniards whose ancestors had "historic claims" to the land.

              Imagine that large numbers of Anglo residents were expelled from this state and forced to live in refugee camps in the Nevada desert. A few were allowed to remain in " Nuevo California" to labor at menial work.

              I don't think that the ethnicity of the "Yankee" Californians would be much of an issue to the people who had lost their homes, livelihoods and civil rights.

              “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing
              he was never reasoned into” - Jonathan Swift

              by jjohnjj on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:42:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I'm certainly all for a plan to withdraw (0+ / 0-)

    the settlements from the most of the West Bank, though I don't necessarily agree with pulling out of East Jerusalem.  Still, if that idiot Bibi plays along this could be a great way to strengthen Abbas and weaken Hamas.  Weakening the hard-liner and religious extremist faction on both sides of the line is desperately needed.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

    by kirrix on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:41:31 PM PDT

  •  Unfortunately there will never be a Palestinian (6+ / 0-)

    state, for a viable Palestinian state has been rendered impossible by the scale of the illegal settlements and appropriation of water resources in the West Bank, and Israel does not have the slightest intention of giving these up.

    The present situation suits Israel perfectly well: as long as it militarily controls the West Bank it can continued doing there what it likes (expand settlements, apartheid roads, theft of Palestinian land, and so on), but as long as it does not annex the West Bank it can continue denying civil rights to the indigenous Palestinians.

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:01:23 PM PDT

  •  Settlements were dismantled and evacuated in (4+ / 0-)

    Gaza almost ten years ago, so it could happen again, this time in the West Bank, although it was a shocking sight to witness Israeli soldiers dragging elderly people from their homes in Gaza.

    I understand the rate of West Bank settlement construction has increased under cover of the devastation being wrought on Gaza. I admit to feeling little or no sympathy for those individual Israeli civilians who are even today moving into homes on stolen West Bank land. Shame on them.

    The White House comment line is 202-456-1111. We need a million-person call-in starting now. Tell them to stop the genocide in Gaza.

    by RJDixon74135 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:46:45 PM PDT

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