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and he's not a fan of Hillary, either.

Scroll down for Thomas Frank's excellent interview with West.

Thomas Frank:

So that’s my first question, it’s a lot of ground to cover but how do you feel things have worked out since then, both with the economy and with this president? That was a huge turning point, that moment in 2008, and my own feeling is that we didn’t turn.
Dr. West:
No, the thing is he posed as a progressive and turned out to be counterfeit. We ended up with a Wall Street presidency, a drone presidency, a national security presidency. The torturers go free. The Wall Street executives go free. The war crimes in the Middle East, especially now in Gaza, the war criminals go free. And yet, you know, he acted as if he was both a progressive and as if he was concerned about the issues of serious injustice and inequality and it turned out that he’s just another neoliberal centrist with a smile and with a nice rhetorical flair. And that’s a very sad moment in the history of the nation because we are—we’re an empire in decline. Our culture is in increasing decay.
Dr. West's response to Frank's question regarding HRC and the fact we won't have another chance for a progressive president is 2024:
It’d be about over then, brother. I think at that point—Hillary Clinton is an extension of Obama’s Wall Street presidency, drone presidency, national surveillance, national security presidency. She’d be more hawkish than he is, and yet she’s got that strange smile that somehow titillates liberals and neo-liberals and scares Republicans. But at that point it’s even too hard to contemplate.
My take is it's going to be over prior to 2024, but I get what he's saying.

http://www.salon.com/...

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Comment Preferences

  •  As I said in another post (25+ / 0-)

    loving on Cornell West, Fuck Cornell West.  

    Sick and tired of him.  

    President Obama has DOJ working on police crimes in Ferguson and sent three representatives to Michael Brown's funeral.  That's hope and change.

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:45:43 AM PDT

    •  Shooting the Messenger- Again (20+ / 0-)

      Sorry, bringing out the now well worn script every time a cop uses deadly force on us, every time we experience domestic terrorism at the barrel of a gun, and the DOJ going thru the motions without congress also doing what needs to be done regarding several critical policy issues-- that's not hope and change.

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:07:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not shooting any messenger. (11+ / 0-)

        Today is the funeral of Michael Brown Jr.  Using this day to attack our African American President with the words of Cornell West shows me that some white progressives need to look inside their own hearts.  

        Hands Up, Don't Shoot!

         

        Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

        by TomP on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:21:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Threadjump: you're both right but I fear. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, JVolvo, gulfgal98

        Super and West are right, no solid path to resolution has been proposed.

        In my small town there was REAL HOPE AND EXCITEMENT at 2008's victory, how sad as it just... faded. Now, we all know government as bought off, unresponsive; we've written it off, disgusted.

        I think TomP's right too, but deeper than just the specifics:

        A massive racist backlash to our first Black President has been nonstop for six years, its fever pitch tells it as a reaction to a most deeply felt challenge, challenge to  the shared concepts on which they found their very identity and place in human life; their world.

        A world of domination, in race, gender, nation, individual 'winners' and 'losers'; the natural world; even what inspires, the divine, they feel through this filter.

        A Black President, valid, overturns all that, tips their little applecart right on over. It's Cooperation versus Domination, linking versus ranking, the antifascist struggle, the Chalice and the Blade, the very mythos of civilization today. I'm saying their fever pitch proves it's this much.

        But I fear that this challenge, this chance for a better world, will dissipate like 2008's hope for lack of 'a solid path to resolution', because lighting it would take a Lincoln and we're getting a Clinton.

        What I see is like the '60's: we've reached a turning point in our history- and failed to turn.

    •  Posting the same rude comment right under the tip (14+ / 0-)

      jar in two or more different diaries is the very definition of 'concern' trolling and is specifically banned at DK. Who made you above those rules, sir?

      Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

      by davidincleveland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:51:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The truth hurts, eh? (18+ / 0-)

      No matter how many times you spam with this comment, West is right.  That's what drives so many people here crazy.

      Guess it must be his white privilege blinding him, huh?

      The opposite of poverty is not wealth. The opposite of poverty is justice. ---Bryan Stevenson

      by Dallasdoc on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:00:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not as much as Teh Stoopid. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duhban

        And no matter how excited one becomes to hear a real life black man make up stuff about Obama, it would take a special sort of stupid to think Obama implied he would prosecute Bush and Cheney, side with Hamas over Israel, and do whatever it is that West wants done to Wall Street.

        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

        by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:12:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are you saying this… (8+ / 0-)
          The war crimes in the Middle East, especially now in Gaza, the war criminals go free.
          is saying…
          side with Hamas over Israel
          …this?




          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

          by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:29:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sigh. What's your point besides bloggy (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            duhban, ord avg guy

            back and forth where you ask questions without ever having to take a position on anything.  

            Why not go ask Dr. West to explain it to you, Perry.  I'm not running a remedial class.

            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

            by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:52:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You could've just clarified… (5+ / 0-)

              …yet you chose not to, as usual.

              What position(s) of mine would you like me to reiterate for you? I'm more than happy to do so.

              Unlike you, I'm not afraid of answering direct questions.




              Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

              by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:07:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's not a remedial class. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                duhban, ord avg guy

                Whether you're actually dense or just pretending to waste my time is irrelevant.  Go pound some sand.

                Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:41:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That's what I thought. (7+ / 0-)

                  • Refuses to clarify his mischaracterization of West.

                  • Mirrors back a Rovian, unsubstantiated claim that I don't take positions on things.

                  • When his bluff is called, declines to provide a list of those issues for me to answer. The same, exact routine he's pulled at least once before.

                  • When further pressed, busts out the "I'm too smart to waste my time with you, fuck off" deflection.

                  You're too obvious, dude.




                  Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                  by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:55:29 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I love it when DH makes his accusations. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    duhban, ord avg guy

                    Every accusation is something he's done in the last five minutes.  And the more spittle flecked and detailed his indictment, the more he's describing what he's doing.

                    All because I wouldn't "clarify" something to his satisfaction, meaning the dumber he is, the more he gets to accuse everyone.  And that's a lot of accusation: turns out, he's has an inexhaustible supply of Dumb to deploy.

                    Go pound sand.

                    Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                    by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:12:54 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  He's saying you're full of shit (11+ / 0-)

                      Which the thread clearly demonstrates.  The anger you display at the very start shows you have no point to make, but go straight to dudgeon for your distraction games.

                      West is right.  More and more people are seeing it.  You and your fellow dead-enders tantrums are not obscuring the truth.

                      The opposite of poverty is not wealth. The opposite of poverty is justice. ---Bryan Stevenson

                      by Dallasdoc on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:19:31 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  So let me get this straight, genius. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        duhban, ord avg guy

                        You have "West is right" as if that were something so self evident that nobody has to even explain it.

                        But all the rest is, apparently, you translating from Angry Troll into English.

                        Because I've someone distracted from your three word, from the Mouth Of God to all us mortals, "WEST IS RIGHT".

                        How does someone distract from THAT?  It's not like you have an argument, or explanation, or anthing else there besides your say so and who the fuck cares about that?

                        Let's be real.  You aren't angry because I've distracted.  You're angry because I'm not going to eat your shit up with a spoon.  Or West's, either.

                        Tough luck, ace.

                        Hope that explained it.

                        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                        by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:36:58 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  heh (7+ / 0-)

                          Who the fuck cares what you eat with a spoon?  You're a dishonest interlocutor without exception, and it's a waste of time trying to persuade you so no one will.  

                          The opposite of poverty is not wealth. The opposite of poverty is justice. ---Bryan Stevenson

                          by Dallasdoc on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:38:51 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Sure, you go with "WEST IS RIGHT" (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ord avg guy

                            because I don't deserve anything more that your ex cathedra pronouncements.

                            Yeah.  Go with that, Your Holiness.

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:46:53 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wait. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Dallasdoc, kharma, cybrestrike
                            because I don't deserve anything more that your ex cathedra pronouncements.
                            Now you aren't getting the quality of response that you feel you deserve?

                            That's rich.

                            From aggressor dismissing others as not worthy of your time, to victim who's being mistreated, in under five comments.

                            Impressive.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:19:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He's not claiming victimhood... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Inland

                            and you know it. Good old DeadHead. Always ready to misrepresent someone on his coveted enemies list.

                            What's funny is DeadHead has no clue what "ex cathedra" even means. He just knows that Inland posted it so he's going to be the good little attack dog he is and go after Inland

                            You really want fuck with me and Inland, DeadHead? Post something honest, truthful or factual. Try it, at least once on this site.

                            BTW - Jerry is still laughing at you.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:25:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Okay, explain it to me, ord. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kharma, cybrestrike

                            You've got this all figured out, so, what was he doing?




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:09:34 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  sigh... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Inland

                            Inland is mocking dallasdoc for dallasdoc's use of the "Because I said so!" debate method. You see DeadHead, that kind of authoritarian bullshit rubs liberals the wrong way.

                            Not surprisingly, you recced it though.

                            Inland doesn't need to claim to be a victim. That's the kind of thing people like you who aren't willing to own their words and actions do.

                            "A" for effort on the attempt at projection. Too bad it was just another DeadHead fail. More DeadHead bullshit shown to be bullshit. This is getting boring DeadHead. You keep posting bullshit and I keep calling you on your bullshit. SSDD.

                            :(

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:04:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Deadhead's "I'm going to ask questions" backfires (0+ / 0-)

                            yet again.  

                            There's a point where I stopped caring whether he pretends to be stupid in order to troll or really is stupid.  

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:36:15 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Jesus. Another remedial class. nt (0+ / 0-)

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:34:01 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

                            Who the fuck are you and yours trying to persuade? What a crock of shit. You're just a petty name-caller and impotent heckler. You're not trying to persuade anybody. You're not trying to build a coalition. What a self-serving thing to pretend. Pathetic.

                            You declaring "West is right." isn't persuasion. It isn't debate. It isn't anything.

                            Don't pretend that no one is trying to persuade Inland because it's his fault, that's why. You and yours don't try to persuade any fucking body. You just name call and hurl ad homs at anyone who doesn't hate Obama enough or doesn't drink the Greenwald Kool-Aid with enough deference to CT.

                            Pathetic

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:15:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You know what's pathetic? (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kharma, Cassiodorus, cybrestrike

                            This compared to this.

                            Seems to me you are the "impotent heckler," not him. Truth hurts, ord.

                            By the way, what "coalitions" are you building?




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:24:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wrong again, DeadHead. (0+ / 0-)

                            What' pathetic is your inability to refute my comments so you resort to trolling by posting irrelevant bullshit.

                            You don't refute comment (and resort to doing what you do best, trolling) because you can't refute my comment. It's your way of admitting that my comments are right and the only thing you have left is flailing and poo flinging.

                            That, little buddy, is what is really pathetic. Do you understand, DeadHead?

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:55:59 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Except… (4+ / 0-)

                      I'm perfectly calm, whereas you're telling me to "pound sand" because you got called on your bullshit.

                      So who's really spraying spittle?




                      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                      by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:01:52 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  "Go pound sand" is angry? Isn't is dismissive? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        ord avg guy

                        I'm pretty sure that's the tone of my posts.  But I guess since being angry gives you an excuse for your usual bloggy back and forth, so I can see why you're going with that.  It's dishonest, but what's that to you.

                        Same reason why you didn't respond to Loge's answer to your question in the other diary.  It was smart and acted as if you actually wanted an answer.  You disappeared because you didn't actually want an answer.  You were trolling.

                        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                        by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:14:41 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Hilarious. Irony on line one... (5+ / 0-)
              without ever having to take a position on anything.  
              Got another 80s MTV clip to bolster your "position"?

              "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition /= GTFO" Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon + JVolvo

              by JVolvo on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:01:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's officially a dead thread: here's JVolvo (0+ / 0-)

                asking questions and contributing nothing but carefully ambiguous references to the silly implications he rolled out in the other dead threads.  

                What a life.  I bet you had an issue, a long long time ago.  What happened?  

                Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:08:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What's the matter? (6+ / 0-)

                  Are people being mean to you?

                  You do little else but dance around and deflect when people ask you straightforward questions about where you stand on things.

                  You then accuse others, namely me, of engaging in that same behavior, when I have NEVER been shy about where I stand on the issues I comment about.

                  And therein lies the irony that you're too much of a "genius" to…not see.




                  Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                  by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:25:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh, nothing's the matter. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ord avg guy

                    We both have the same low expectations for you and JVolvo.  

                    At least he used to have an issue once upon a time.  I doubt you ever did.  

                    You do little else but dance around and deflect when people ask you straightforward questions about where you stand on things.
                    Actually, I answered JVolvo's question on whether I'm a Holocaust denier, even though he was only asking it to BAD, but just answering it made you pretty goshdarn angry.  

                    See, you two only ask questions because you're trolling, not to get answers.  That's why you can both rec dallasdoc saying that nobody cares about me and then DEMAND that I inform you of my positions.  And why when Loge actually gave you a smart answer to your question in the other diary, you disappeared without comment.  You never wanted a serious answer.  You wanted a bloggy back and forth about nothing.

                    Hope that clears thing up.  

                    Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                    by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:35:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You ARE upset. Now, now. Sit back and relive (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cybrestrike

                      your good times...

                      "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition /= GTFO" Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon + JVolvo

                      by JVolvo on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:51:14 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You wish. (0+ / 0-)

                        But turns out, you're no more competent at getting me angry than you were at being a poseur.

                        Who got angry in the little exchange over whether I denied the Holocaust?

                        You, causing you to ask the question in the first place.

                        And you, when I answered it in a nice active thread.

                        Good times, but not exactly what I'm living for.  Because I'm not you, thank everything that Deadhead doesn't rec.

                        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                        by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:32:54 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  It does. (6+ / 0-)
          it would take a special sort of stupid to think Obama implied he would prosecute Bush and Cheney, side with Hamas over Israel, and do whatever it is that West wants done to Wall Street.
          We all know by now that when Obama promised the public a public option with no mandate penalty, he implied that we were going to get no public option and a mandate penalty.

          And all that other stuff.

          Just like when he compared himself to Gandhi and Nelson Mandela:

          he implied that we were going to get another standard-issue neoliberal Presidency.  It takes a special sort of stupid to think otherwise.

          "Here in America, the difference between Democrats and Republicans — we’re fighting inside the 40-yard lines." -- Barack Obama

          by Cassiodorus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:42:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Heh. Yeah, special stupid. (0+ / 0-)

            Obama comparing himself to Mandela: here's a little education for you about Mandela, from the wiki:

            Instead, the government adopted liberal economic policies designed to promote foreign investment, adhering to the "Washington consensus" advocated by the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.[247]
            Pretty funny that you assumed Obama was going to be a not capitalist because you didn't know anything about either him or Mandela.  I don't think Ghandhi ever held a government position.  But you look up your own shit for a change.

            And here's a good comment by Loge in another diary.

            It was historic (6+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:Inland, kat68, Catte Nappe, paulitics, mallyroyal, poco

            but it takes tremendous hindsight and wishful thinking to think we elected Cornel West president and not a mainstream Democrat.

            I mean, the Monday-morning Quarterback argument "Democrats should govern more to the left" is fine as far as it goes --  even the claim that he has a duty to because of what the country "needs."  That just boils down to Cornel West's opinion, but it's particularly insidious to suggest that Obama is especially obligated to govern a certain way or have certain opinions because of his race.  I'm pretty sure both Obama and West are black, and between the two of them, only one of them has been elected President.  In other words, the politics of racial authenticity are bad enough, but if we put it to a vote, West won't win.  

            If there's a bait and switch it's in West's rhetoric.  He frames his argument in terms of process, taking the form of Obama should have done 3-4 things differently, but he doesn't go through the analysis of how that would work or achieve results.  Instead, he's looking only at outcomes, but these deal with factors exogenous to Obama.  Again, who is better equipped to read the politics?  The one who was elected President twice or the one being interviewed in Salon by a reporter as critical of him as Sean Hannity interviewing Ted Cruz?

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:39:41 PM CDT

            As to your specifics, since you really don't want to try the ACA without a mandate, what's your complaint?  That Obama's giving in on a campaign position to do what you want?

            As for the public option, it's the bait and switch Loge describes: the outcome of no public option doesn't make the campaign a lie when the public option is blocked by congress.  

            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

            by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:29:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your trollsplainin' (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cybrestrike, Dallasdoc, gulfgal98

              about Congress and the ACA has been decisively refuted in several places.  Here's the most recent one:

              http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/...

              "what you know and how you write and say it is fairly irrelevant compared to who you know and where you stand (or don't stand) vis-a-vis reigning institutions and those with power ("gatekeepers")." -- Paul Street

              by Cassiodorus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:53:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And no comment on your ignorance of Mandela. (0+ / 0-)

                Haven't I already established that you're just dreaming up what Obama was telling you?  

                I don't mind you being angry that Real World Obama isn't the same as your Imaginary World Obama.  What I mind is you pretending like he led you on somehow.   That he fooled you.  

                And an FDL link.  I'm sure FDL links back to you, too.

                Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:01:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are trying to show, then, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  cybrestrike, Dallasdoc

                  that Obama's neoliberalism is justified by what Mandela had to do when the bankers pressed his government?

                  "what you know and how you write and say it is fairly irrelevant compared to who you know and where you stand (or don't stand) vis-a-vis reigning institutions and those with power ("gatekeepers")." -- Paul Street

                  by Cassiodorus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:05:30 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  If reading my comments doesn't (0+ / 0-)

                    inform you on what I am "trying to show", then I can't help you.  This isn't the remedial class.

                    Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                    by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:09:14 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You're insincere, then. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cybrestrike, Dallasdoc

                      When you're caught spouting, you change the subject or stick your nose back in the air.

                      "what you know and how you write and say it is fairly irrelevant compared to who you know and where you stand (or don't stand) vis-a-vis reigning institutions and those with power ("gatekeepers")." -- Paul Street

                      by Cassiodorus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:15:32 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I have no idea what you think you've "caught". (0+ / 0-)

                        Last I knew, you were asking questions.

                        Now I know that asking questions is the preferred manner of keeping a bloggy back and forth going, see, e.g., Deadhead and JVolvo, but that's your deal, not mine.

                        If you've got something to say, go ahead and say it.

                        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                        by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:19:19 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  Highly recommended reading (n/t) (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cassiodorus

                "I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~ So.Lib.inMD UID166438

                by gulfgal98 on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 03:59:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, it's really wonderful, all those PR gestures (6+ / 0-)

      And if it's all over by 2024, well, we'll always have "omigod first Black President!" and "omigod first woman President!"

      "Here in America, the difference between Democrats and Republicans — we’re fighting inside the 40-yard lines." -- Barack Obama

      by Cassiodorus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:23:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for covering this. Had seen it and included (11+ / 0-)

    reference to it in a comment.

    Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

    by divineorder on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:46:00 AM PDT

    •  not a word I disagree with..... (9+ / 0-)
      No, the thing is he posed as a progressive and turned out to be counterfeit.

      We ended up with a Wall Street presidency, a drone presidency, a national security presidency. The torturers go free.

      The Wall Street executives go free. The war crimes in the Middle East, especially now in Gaza, the war criminals go free.

      And yet, you know, he acted as if he was both a progressive and as if he was concerned about the issues of serious injustice and inequality and it turned out that he’s just another neoliberal centrist with a smile and with a nice rhetorical flair

      _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

      by allenjo on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:46:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yet West seems to miss the difference between (0+ / 0-)

        a president's beliefs and his or her being the president.

        Obama's actions are more a reflection on the balance (or imbalance) of power and the political structures within our government.  Obama may only be effective at inspiring change to those things AFTER he is president.

        I find Cornell West to be intriguing, and his perspective is a check and balance.  But that is his role in the public sphere - a far different one than president.

        I also  think his criticisms are calculated if not always sincerely held beliefs on his part.

        West. No further west. All sea. --Robert Grenier

        by Nicolas Fouquet on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:03:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obama did appoint Holder. Obama did appoint (13+ / 0-)

          Rahm Emmanuel.  Obama did appoint Jack Lew.

          Obama does deserve critiques, positive and negative, for the things he does control.

          In Eric Holder, for example, Obama appointed an Attorney General who, under Clinton in 1999, proposed that banks and corporations and large financial firms should not have criminal investigations of those directing criminal actions, but instead, have large fines proposed against the company as a whole.  

          In other words, Obama specifically appointed the "Get Out of Jail Free" card man to Attorney General in a time of the greatest financial frauds since the Great Depression.

          That's just one example of one area.

          What about Obama appointing an advocate of torture to the head of the CIA?  That was progressive of him, wasn't it? A lot of transparency there.

          Jack Lew, appointed White House Chief of Staff, was the top executive of Citibank during the financial crisis. White House Chief of Staff = Obama's right-hand man.  

          Lew went back to Citibank where he collected a cool $1 million bonus "for being appointed to government service" and Obama then appointed him Secretary of the Treasury.  I'm sure the fresh warm $1 million in his pocket won't influence his decision-making about the banking system from the Treasury department, will it?  

          There are many areas where Obama does have control and has acted against the interests of the working people.  He didn't even insure his own mortgage rescue program was actually helping people, instead allowing Geithner to block most of its implementation.

          The list is actually quite long and quite, ummm, well, let's just say that Cornell West has several good points.

          Obama has acted as the protector of the biggest financial interests and their benefactors in a time where wealth inequality has grown to immense proportions.  West's statements of this being a "Wall Street presidency" and "The Wall Street executives go free" is factually correct.

          Obama has drone-bombed more people and places than George W. Bush, killing more innocents and "targets" alike. His government redefined "militants" to include anyone killed by a drone strike, to improve those appearances, but the truth is known.

          Paragraph after paragraph of West's statements are accurate:

          And a nation always has divisions. You have to be able to speak to those divisions in such a way that, like FDR, like Lincoln, you’re able to somehow pull out the best of who we are, given the divisions. You don’t try to act as if we have no divisions and we’re just an American family, with the poor getting treated in disgraceful ways and the rich walking off sipping tea, with no accountability at all
          We saw exactly this, over and over, in his first term when he "pre-conceded" or "negotiated with himself" before negotiations had even begun.  He was trying to cement his position as a "middle grounder" but the middle ground won't do when a new direction is needed:
          I think Obama, his modus operandi going all the way back to when he was head of the [Harvard] Law Review, first editor of the Law Review and didn’t have a piece in the Law Review. He was chosen because he always occupied the middle ground. He doesn’t realize that a great leader, a statesperson, doesn’t just occupy middle ground. They occupy higher ground or the moral ground or even sometimes the holy ground. But the middle ground is not the place to go if you’re going to show courage and vision. And I think that’s his modus operandi. He always moves to the middle ground. It turned out that historically, this was not a moment for a middle-ground politician. We needed a high-ground statesperson and it’s clear now he’s not the one.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:42:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Obama's also thinking long term (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco

            The current political environment drives men to the middle.  I believe Obama would not disagree with West on most of these points.  However, I think there is legitimate chance Obama would have been a one-term president in doing what many of us would support but haven't seen.  

            Are we better off having him in or out of the White House? This perhaps requires some further thought.  But in America where the political party holding the House of Reps and making a serious run at the Senate has in its platform policies that are primarily racist, I'm pretty sure that the type of leadership we were hoping for wouldn't have changed anything.

            This is why I have high hopes for Obama after he is out of office and am very happy he's in there, now.

            Nearly half the country, in its heart of hearts, wouldn't vote for Dr. King for anything if he were alive today.

            West. No further west. All sea. --Robert Grenier

            by Nicolas Fouquet on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:42:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So two terms of weak sauce is better than one (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayRaye, gulfgal98, cybrestrike

              term with significantly stronger Dem/Prog/Left policy results?

              Wha?

              And zero guarantee that the hypothetical strong 1st term would equal his losing in 2012.

              "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition /= GTFO" Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon + JVolvo

              by JVolvo on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:10:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I tend to think of it -- (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JayRaye, gulfgal98, JVolvo, cybrestrike

                as two terms of badly inadequate responses to what should be an emergency situation.  But it's not surprising -- the selection process that gave us Obama insured that we will get nothing else from the political process, and the vast majority of those who are complaining have nothing better in mind.

                "Here in America, the difference between Democrats and Republicans — we’re fighting inside the 40-yard lines." -- Barack Obama

                by Cassiodorus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:20:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  This is the crux of the problem (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JVolvo, Cassiodorus, cybrestrike

                  with our current political system wherein those who are presented to us on the ballot have already been pre-selected by big money. We desperately needed big ideas and strong leadership to push for them and what we will always get is a caretaker for big money.

                  "I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~ So.Lib.inMD UID166438

                  by gulfgal98 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:27:34 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  The question at hand regarding ... (0+ / 0-)
              I believe Obama would not disagree with West on most of these points.
              ... is what is the basis for that belief?

              It would appear to be the speeches in which he said progressive things.

              But then even in 2008, while the speeches made sweeping progressive descriptions of the present situation, the policy solutions set out were always neoliberal incrementalist tinkering with the status quo.

              All the world's a stage, the theater is on fire, and the lead actors are telling the audience that the smoke is a trick, they should stay seated an enjoy the show.

              by BruceMcF on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:02:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  You know this is going to start a piefight flam... (19+ / 0-)

    You know this is going to start a piefight flamewar. Watch the fans scream at the top of their lungs how awful Cornel West is.

    •  Anything to put down our African American (14+ / 0-)

      president from the white progressives.  Have fun on the day Michael Brown Jr. is put to rest.  President Obama sent three WH representatives to the funeral and his DOJ is investigating.  

      Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

      by TomP on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:51:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So you put down a prominent African American (27+ / 0-)

        public intellectual in response.  Perhaps you might address any one of the following assertions of Prof. West's:

        1. Torturers went free;
        2. Wall Street crooks went free;
        3. War criminals went free;
        4. Our school systems are in deep trouble; and
        5. Our political leaders are bought off w/ legalized bribery.

        Do you contest any of those assertions?  If so, why?

        Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

        by RFK Lives on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:58:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Charade Can't Continue Forever (15+ / 0-)

          It would be one thing if we only had 1-2 critical problems being ignored, but we have what? a dozen?

          Just how does anyone, unless in severe denial, think we're going to survive long term as a nation? what of the British empire? the Dutch? Spanish?

          "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

          by Superpole on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:15:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm only interested in the "we were fooled by O" (0+ / 0-)

          accusation.   Mostly because it's pathetic and working to actually prevent any advancement on any front, but also because it's what excites you so much.

          That one's made up, as we all know.

          Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

          by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:31:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're only interested in that one because… (6+ / 0-)

            …you have no answers for the others.




            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:47:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What are you blabbering about now? (0+ / 0-)

              Go ask your mommy for a dollar so you can go buy yourself a point.  

              Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

              by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:53:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm blabbering about your inability… (4+ / 0-)

                …to address any of those other items.

                You aren't able to, so you resort to puerile comebacks.




                Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:13:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's not a remedial class. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ord avg guy, duhban

                  Go find someone who thinks it is his mission to engage every creep who has the mental capacity to add a question mark at the end of a sentence.  

                  Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                  by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:44:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ROFL!!! (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    duhban

                    BTW - Nice sig.

                    If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                    by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:00:43 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That was Deadhead answering a question (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ord avg guy, duhban

                      but I figure you were able to guess.  

                      But he still thinks that I have to pretend he's asking me questions in good faith and not just trolling.

                      Pretty amazing how he buys the bullshit he's peddling even though nobody else does.

                      Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                      by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:04:37 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  That's his shtick when he wants to pretend (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Inland, duhban

                        that he's actually interested in policy and politics - pretend to ask questions in good faith and then try to smear you for not doing his bidding by answering his bullshit questions (I almost feel sorry for him with his inability to recognize how blatantly transparent he is).

                        It's one of the very few plays in the DH trolling playbook.

                        If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                        by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:13:45 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Heh. Check out this illustrative DH fail: (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          ord avg guy, duhban

                          Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                          by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:41:07 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  LMAO (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco, cybrestrike

                            What's so illustrative of failure about that?

                            God, you're embarrassing.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:01:11 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And another bad faith question. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ord avg guy, duhban

                            Here, let me explain it to you like you really wanted an answer:

                            Your attempt to continue "conversation" without having enough character to use a declarative sentence is creepy and pathetic.

                            Hope that cleared it up.  If not, feel free to ask someone else what your problem is.  

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:09:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ha ha. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            cybrestrike

                            A three word question about something someone said in a comment is "bad faith."

                            I can see why you would think that.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:59:46 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No DeadHead. (0+ / 0-)

                            That fact that you posted it is empirical evidence that the question was in "bad faith".

                            Do you understand now?

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:08:17 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The pathetic irony of you telling (0+ / 0-)

                            Inland that he's embarrassing - HAHAHAHA

                            Thank you for that DeadHead!! ROFL

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:19:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're welcome. (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm not too concerned about being wrong on this one, given the company you keep.

                            You, Inland, and duhban.

                            Team Dead-Ender.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:07:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Sadly for you... (0+ / 0-)

                            the company you keep is, for the most part, banned, NR and/or self-deported. Say "Hi" to your buddies down at the Hollow for me, DeadHead. How's my pal poligirl doing? Do you miss having 4ked around to tag team with? Does it give you a sad that TMC isn't here to uprate every shitty comment you post? Do you miss destroying Ray's diaries with your self-serving pie fighting? I feel so sorry for you DeadHead. Clearly your dead-ender accustaion is projection on your part given the facts of the situation.

                            I'm not sure how durban is part of the "dead-ender" equation. There is a group of asshole bullies on this site that have obsessively been attacking duhban for over a year and he's still here and a trusted user. Seems like the assholes that have failed in running him off are the dead-enders, DeadHead. You'd have to agree that your failure to bully someone off this site has been a complete fucking failure in duhban's case. Total fail. A year long effort that continues to FAIL. Your effort. Your bullying. You own that failure DeadHead.

                            Keep bullying and badgering duhban, DeadHead. I'm sure you'll eventually stop being a complete fucking failure in your very un-liberal and dickish attempts at getting duhban to STFU. Just because you've been a total failure for the last year don't let that stop you. Doing the same shit over and over abd over and expecting different results is completely acceptable for you DeadHead. You've got this much time devoted to being an obsessive bully you may as well keep doing what you do.

                            Jerry is very very proud of the way you bully duhban. He told me that being a bully asshole is what being a real Deadhead is all about. Kudos DeadHead. Keep up the awesome work.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:25:04 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Meh (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm doing just fine.

                            In fact here are all my comments since 06/02/2014, the day "my friends" were banned, ordered by highest number of recs to lowest.

                            Looks like my base of support is bigger than you claim it is.

                            It's funny that you had to go after others in trying to impugn me. That's because I've never been banned, timed-out or NR'd, personally.

                            Nice try, but not good enough.

                            Failure is your forte.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:41:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Meh (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Inland

                            You thought you could attack me with your pathetic little "dead-ender" accusation. You failed. Just like your bullying of duhban. Fail. Just like your trolling of liberals. Fail. Just like your defense of CTer Pensador. Fail. Just like your rabid defense of racist dog whistler Rall. Fail. Just like you being a grown up and owning your words and actions. Fail. Just like you posting something truthful. Fail. Just like your credibility. Failed. Failure defines you.

                            You've devoted all this time to bullying and trolling and you're still failing. Sad and pathetic.

                            Jerry and duhban are laughing at your failure.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:49:39 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He's so pathetic when he gets out of (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Inland

                            the shallow end of the pool. MOst of his enablers are banned, NRed or self-deported so he's especially lonely lately.

                            It seems to be making him take his troll routine into uncharted waters and falling flat on his face. He's racking up the fails faster than Ray Pensador gets HRed in his own diary.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:18:22 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Even funnier, Loge gave a serious, well thought (0+ / 0-)

                            out answer to the question that DeadHead pretended he wanted an answer to.....at which point, Deadhead disappears.  

                            MOst of his enablers are banned, NRed or self-deported so he's especially lonely lately.
                            But but but he stays on dkos because all his friends are here!  Or so he implied.  

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:58:15 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  You'll be okay, ord. (0+ / 0-)

                          You don't need to start monitoring my reply page, again.

                          Go read and rec some diaries. You know, something more productive than being butthurt.




                          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                          by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:05:56 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Sorry DeadHead. (0+ / 0-)

                            YOu don't ever get to tell me what I can and can't do.

                            And frankly DeadHead, as a sad pathetic person who has spent insane amounts of time going through others comment histories, you are the last person on this site who needs to telling anyone what they can and can't do.

                            Clearly you keep coming at me because you are the "butthurt" one. HAHAHAHA

                            Sorry I was so honest with you. I know you hate that but you need to hear it. It's for your own good.

                            Jerry says "change your ways".

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:24:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Nothing could be funnier than "go read something" (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ord avg guy

                            from Deadhead.  He doesn't even read the diaries he appears in to "ask questions", much less something exotic like a newspaper.

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:41:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Everything he knows he gets from (0+ / 0-)

                            skimming a bobswern diary.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:03:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  At least he writes diaries. (0+ / 0-)

                            Unlike you and Inland.

                            You guys can fling a mean turd, though.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:18:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh noes... (0+ / 0-)

                            Not the oldie but goodie DeadHead attack "you don't post diaries!" ROFL. You really are the gift that keeps on giving tonight, DeadHead. Entertainment at it's finest.

                            You are really flailing now, DeadHead. Your tired little attack is nothing more than a sad and pathetic deflection of the fact that you don't really give a shit about anything other than flinging poo.

                            Nice try though, DeadHead. Thanks for playing little buddy!

                            It really sad that this is how you would choose to spend your birthday. If the deal is that Inland and I are the only people left who will still talk to you just let me know. For your birthday I might give you a break and call out a little less of your bullshit.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:33:32 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Why did you come in here AFTER me, ord? (0+ / 0-)

                            To start shit.

                            The timestamps don't lie.

                            Your first comment was at 02:00:43 PM PDT, "ROFLing" at me to Inland. Your second comment was you shit-talking about me. Almost all of your comments in this diary are you starting shit or back-slapping Inland's dickhead comments.  

                            As opposed to my first comment, which was at 11:29:38 AM PDT to Inland, asking him to clarify the comment I was replying to.

                            I was here two and a half hours before you.

                            Hope that clears things up.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:34:22 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wrong again, DeadHaed. (0+ / 0-)

                            ROFLing at Inland's comment isn't ROFLing at you. You came here to start shit with Inland. Just like you trolled me in the last diary to start shit with me. You are the shit sytarter. You're the one trolling.

                            If you don't like the responses to your trolling perhaps you should consider stopping your trolling. Sorry that the facts fuck up your revisionism.

                            :(

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:25:47 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, consider it from his troll point of view (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ord avg guy

                            He looks forward to an MO of him and his "friends" ganging up on a lone poster in a dead thread.

                            Having someone else show up is surprising and disappointing, as is the fact his "friends" are NRd, banned or finding hobbies better than enabling him.

                            So you see how a troll would see himself the victim in all this.

                            Sorta the same way JVolvo and Clive see red when I comment on The Great Duhban Hunt.  Not only do they get mad that someone's pointing out their obsession, it ruins the piling on.

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:10:15 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  "But I was only trolling Inland!" says the victim (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ord avg guy

                            of people who notice what he's doing on the internet.

                            I know that you like to have you and your five "friends" gang up on one lone poster in dead threads, but who gives a fuck about what you want?

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:07:09 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Because this is clearly Inland's diary. (0+ / 0-)

                            Of course.

                            "Here in America, the difference between Democrats and Republicans — we’re fighting inside the 40-yard lines." -- Barack Obama

                            by Cassiodorus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:04:11 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  But which bobswern diary? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ord avg guy

                            Oh, yeah, read one, read them all.  Recycling isn't just for paper garbage.

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:00:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  LOL. I read them. And I tip and rec, too. (0+ / 0-)

                            Unlike you, who NEVER tips or recs the diaries you blow up with your dozens of worthless, derailing, 0-tipped comments.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:16:07 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Hey DeadHead... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Inland

                            Presenting an opposing view is what DKos is about. I understand that you haven't been here nearly as long as Inland and I so you don't fully understand that DKos isn't just a platform for you friends to post whatever the fuck they want without any challenge or critical thinking.

                            Just because you rec something doesn't mean a real liberal is going to agree with it.

                            Glad I could help you understand how the site works. Let me know if you have any questions. I hate to see you continue to embarrass yourself.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:40:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  OMG, which remark of yours is more idiotic? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ord avg guy

                            The thought that I'm supposed to tip and rec diaries I disagree with?

                            Or the thought that it's me, and not you, who derails diaries?

                            I know you're not big on words and stuff, but disagreement isn't derailing.  Trolling is derailing.  I disagree, you troll.  

                            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                            by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:03:14 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wow, this shit is fucking sad. (5+ / 0-)

                            Do people really get that involved? I mean, trolling people's reply page?

                            A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:53:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Only if you choose to believe (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Inland

                            DeadHead's accusations.

                            As the subject of many of DeadHead's bullshit accusations and smears I know not to believe any of it. But I know he has some buddies here that really don't care about truth.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:58:34 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ord, I caught you doing it several months ago. (0+ / 0-)

                            I documented it in a comment. I'll post the link again if you want.

                            And you arrived in this thread to post underneath my comment, long after this diary was dead.

                            Coincidence? I think not.

                            You've all but admitted to me that you've gone into diaries to rec others I was bickering with in those diaries, and I saw the recs with my own two eyes.

                            Deny it all you want. We both know the truth.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:52:48 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Who gives a fuck what you think is a coincidence? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Inland

                            You trolled me in the last diary, you trolled Inland here. And now you think you you are the victim because I replied to Inland? Hahahahaha.

                            You are the one trolling DeadHead, not me. You trolled Inland. You trolled me (repeatedly). And now that you are getting your ass handed to you you want to pretend to be the victim. That's hilarious DeadHead and so very sad and pathetic.

                            If you don't like the response to your persistent trolling then stop fucking trolling. I don't know how much more I don't know how much more I can simplify that for you.

                            If you keep trolling me I'm going to keep callintg y9u out on it. I've told you that before but it just doesn't seem to be sinking in.

                            Stop trolling, and all this goes away. It's your choice. But we know what choice you're going to make, don't we?

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:33:02 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Are you still mad about last night, ord? (0+ / 0-)

                      I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.




                      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                      by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:58:11 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  How could I still be mad? (0+ / 0-)

                        I was never mad, Deadhead. You sure love pretending I'm expressing emotion that I'm clearly not expressing. All part of that DeadHead smear attack that we've all seen so any times.

                        We do what we always do. Your obsession with me overtakes you and you attack and troll me. I respond by calling you out on your made up bullshit. You flail about with more untrue accusations, personal attacks, lies, smears, usual DeadHead bullshit. I call out you out again. SSDD, DeadHead. Nothing to be mad about. Bored is more like it. You do the same stupid attacks over and over over and over. BORING!

                        Nothing to be mad about. I know you wish your opinion meant something to me but it really doesn't. As I've told you repeatedly (but you don't want to be a grown up and face) you pissed away all your credibility long ago. Your opinion is less than meaningless. Nothing you post here is to ever be accepted at face value or assumed to be true. Nothing. That's the bed you made for yourself. Sorry :(

                        Now you're just reduced to your sad, pathetic trolling.

                        BTW - Jerry still wants you to stop shaming him with your username.

                        If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                        by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:14:55 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You ARE mad… (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Cassiodorus

                          Because you keep posting the same bullshit comment to me over and over, almost word for word.

                          And you've started in with your "mysterious appearances" under my comments to help with the pooh-flinging again now, apparently.

                          Because you're VINDICTIVE.  

                          Which is why you and Inland get along so well.

                          You're two of a kind.




                          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                          by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:53:06 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Wrong again, DeadHead! (0+ / 0-)

                            Hey DeadHead...remember when you posted last night that we were parting company and you'll see me in October and I told you that was bullshit that you'll keep right on trolling me because that is what you do.

                            And here we are. The very next day. What you posted was bullshit (this isn't October, DeadHead). What I posted was 100% accurate (you couldn't fucking wait to come at me again).. Well DeadHead, that's exactly how all our exchanges go. What you post is bullshit. What i post is true. What you post is self-serving bullshit. I post truth. You troll. I respond to your trolling. If you troll me tomorrow, I will respond then too. Do you understand that? You are initiating these exchanges, not me. You can't stop trolling me. I could give a shit less about you. You start this and then you get frustrated because I don't back down. You want to bully me but you can't. You are a failure.

                            So with that in mind..Again, I'm not mad. I'm entertained. You tried to troll me and you fucking failed - lunachickie is still a hypocrite. You tried to troll Inland and you failed. And now you want to play the fucking victim? HAHAHA

                            You are ridiculous. How could I be mad about the ridiculous shit you are posting. You are hilarious, DeadHead. You're not maddening. You're entertainment.

                            Jerry says you're making him laugh at you too.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:59:54 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Dude. YOU came into this diary AFTER me. (0+ / 0-)

                            Your first and second fucking comments in this diary were to Inland about me, underneath one of my comments.

                            Got that?

                            One more time, just in case:

                            You went looking for me, not the other way around.




                            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                            by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:04:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wrong again, DeadHead. (0+ / 0-)

                            I can post in any diary I want. The fact that you were trolling Inland (just like you came trolling me in the last exchange we had, and the one before that, and the one before that, etc) before I got here doesn't mean anything. The fact that you think it's relevant is just more evidence of your dissembling. Nothing is quite so entertaining as you flailing about trying to cover your BAD and your trolling

                            You claimed I'm mad, but that wasn't true. You claim I went "looking for you" but that wasn't true. You claimed you were done with me until October but that wasn't true. Is even possible for you to post something that is true?

                            Jerry wants to know why you keep posting things that aren't true.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:22:15 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Heh. Someone's butthurt. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        ord avg guy

                        Without reading, because who needs more of you, I'm pretty sure it's the guy responding to every one of OVG posts trying to bring in the fight from the previous blog.

                        Hoping you'll do better this time, or are you just compelled to do what you complained about me doing in DeadHead's Iron Rule of Hypocrisy?

                        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                        by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:16:08 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Sorry, pal. (0+ / 0-)

                          He came in here after me, for no other reason than to talk shit about me to you.

                          So no, I'm not the one who's butthurt, nor am I dragging shit from another diary, because I wouldn't have said anything about it had he not arrived here to fling shit.




                          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                          by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:12:39 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Wrong again, DeadHead. (0+ / 0-)

                            Inland posted a funny comment and I replied "ROFL". You've tried this bullshit claim before and was just as much bullshit then as it is here and now.

                            If I want to engage you I proven I'm not afraid to engage you. Your bullshit claim that ROFL was about you when it was clearly about Inland's comment is pathetic and narcissistic. I don't give a shit about you, DeadHead. You are nothing but a gnat buzzing around desperately trying to get attention.

                            You just look for excuses to come after me. You trolled me to come after me in the last exchange and the one before that. And you made up a bullshit excuse to come after me here. Good gawd, your desperation is obvious.

                            How pathetic can you get. Don't blame me for your choices. They're your choices. Own your fucking choices. Own your fucking actions, Own your fucking words. Grow the fuck up.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:58:30 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  Now, now. "creep" is not necessary. Use (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DeadHead, JayRaye, cybrestrike

                    your big words to express yourself.

                    "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition /= GTFO" Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon + JVolvo

                    by JVolvo on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:13:03 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  What fucking difference does it make what words (0+ / 0-)

                      he uses when he's engaging dishonest and sad little trolls?

                      If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                      by ord avg guy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:56:18 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Wow. You're really upset by Prof West, huh? (4+ / 0-)

                        If the dissenters and critics could just be silenced, all would be fine.

                        Man, we used to mock the shit out of Bush's dead-enders here.  We might need a new dkos group here: Lockstep Loyalty.

                        "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition /= GTFO" Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon + JVolvo

                        by JVolvo on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:55:36 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Typical JVolvo... (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Inland

                          Creating straw man so he can bravely knock them down. Great work, J. You're a credit to your tribe. Any more shit you want to pretend I said? Maybe you want to throw in some more insulting ad-homs? Troll away! ROFL....so typical.

                          Oh...and the bullshit about trying to silence critics is a nice touch. Too bad it has no basis in fact. But fuck facts, right JVolvo? You have a victim pose to strike and you will let no facts screw that up.

                          My comment has zero, nothing, nada to do with West and you know it.

                          Man, we used to mock the shit out of Bush's dead-enders here.  We might need a new dkos group here: Dishonest trolls who claim to be real liberals.

                          If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                          by ord avg guy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:16:14 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  ROTFLMAO! (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          JVolvo

                          A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

                          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:03:52 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

            •  It's pretty horrendous (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayRaye

              that out of that list, that's the only one Inland's interested in. Kinda sums up the nature of the gap between the sides.

              A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:14:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  By a black progressive... (12+ / 0-)
        We ended up with a Wall Street presidency, a drone presidency, a national security presidency.
        That is what it looks like to me too.

        It's cool though, I expected the bait and switch.

        The 2024 comment is kind of scary, another one that I see pretty plainly, but had not really thought of 8 years after her election which is a possibility.

        I wonder if it will be anything to put down our woman president from the white male progressives.

        Can't you believe the idea that I don't believe Obama is a progressive politician?

        Give me some thought process other than race, please.

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:01:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  really? (8+ / 0-)

          At what point did Barack Obama ever campaign as a liberal progressive?  

          Why do I remember the presidential campaign so differently?

          The first time I ever saw Obama was when he gave the keynote at the Democratic convention in 2004.   He gave a passionate appeal to moderation and compromise.  

          And that was pretty much what his political career has always been about.  If others saw in him a progressive warrior, they were looking at him through liberal-colored lenses.  

          I am tired of the dishonesty here.  If people want to criticize Obama for not being liberal enough, fine.  But don't lie about how he presented himself.  

          As for Cornel West and Tavis Smiley, they have had a bug up their ass about Obama since the 2008 campaign, when there were not afforded the deference that they demanded as self-styled leaders of Black America, and have been acting like petty little men since.  

          •  I've explained it like this: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TooFolkGR, Dallasdoc
            I figure it's this: (1+ / 0-)
            you could say
              a)"I campaigned for Obama but the world is disillusioned that he lied to us";
              or
              b) "I campaigned for Obama but the world is disillusioned because he's not doing all the awesome things I would do if I were president".

            If you use A), it's like Obama testifying against Obama, but if you use B), it's like West testifying against Obama.

            Because West has very little cred and Obama has lots, you choose a).

            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

            by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:32:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yea, he campaigned on keeping Guantanamo open (17+ / 0-)

            on Drone Warfare in many countries in lieu of boots on the ground.

            He stood strongly for NAFTA, promising to expand it with the TPP and the like.

            He was a strong supporter of Tar Sands and offshore Atlantic Drilling.

            I clearly remember him saying that banks and financial institutions would be above the law too.

            Remember in his campaign was when he stood strongly against the Public Option to promote a private health insurance system.

            My favorite part of the campaign, the promise to appoint the people who crashed the economy to his econ cabinet.

            I was not duped, BTW, I do think he ran as a progressive, but I didn't believe his words. There was a lot of Establishment framing and language that I could not get past. It was pretty clear to me that he was the suit that we got in office today.

            One more 'by the way'... I wept when he took office. What an amazing scene and truly emotive historical event his inauguration was. I was overwhelmed with emotion. I was truly proud to be American at that moment.

            And then we got his econ team and it was a short lived honeymoon.

            Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

            by k9disc on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:38:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Pretty much my take. You left out the promises (11+ / 0-)

              to never push for immigration reform (oh, wait, he did, "in the first year of my presidency") and gay rights (oh, wait, he did!) and union workers (oh, wait, he did, "put on my walking shoes and join you.")

              In other words, he campaigned as a progressive in targeted ways, they quickly left all that behind as he assembled his neo-liberal, Rubinite economic team, appointing Republicans and generally ignoring Main Street throughout.

              "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

              by YucatanMan on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:49:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Gosh darn him for not anticipating your hype. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mallyroyal

              Obama should have made a speech saying, "Now I know that some people have a special list of persons they blame for crashing the economy, and I want them to know that I have that list in front of me and I've decided to appoint some".

              He should have said "I'll end the wars but because there are some people who are focused on specific means, I wish to state the following will still be used from time to time; drones, artillery, small arms, helicopters, Navy SEALS........."

              And on and on.

              Because if he didn't expressly address each and every thing you make up, it's on him.  

              Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

              by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:49:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Where was the outrage after Foley was beheaded (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade

        and Obama played golf?  Faux outrage, you got it.

        Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

        by gooderservice on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:49:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's interesting. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead, JayRaye, gulfgal98, cybrestrike

        Given that I walked my fucking ass off for him, donated money and talked to about a billion strangers on the phone. "White progressives" were just peachy then. In fact, they were some of his earliest supporters. Probably started with him being named one of the first Dean dozen.

        Apparently the work that got him elected isn't enough to buy the right to speak honestly about his policies without accusations of treachery or bias being thrown around.

        A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:47:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  heh. "fans." and he said "cheerleaders." (12+ / 0-)

      and if he's doesn't know ANYONE who thinks the president is "progressive enough" I call outright bullshit.  we know some of the same people, including my own dad.

      he's not for the rhetorical back and forth but can't stop calling the president (and now his supporters!) names lol.

      and he's lying about Holder's record vis a vis civil rights.  point blank.

      defend all that... merely 'cause he's saying what you want to hear.  that's awesome.

      This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

      by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:09:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Consider my screams to have reached the top (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, Wednesday Bizzare, poco

      of my lungs, even though there are several Obama policies of which I am not a "fan".

      There's critique (Warren, Sanders. Grayson) and there's over-the-top counter-productive critique (West, Nader, Greenwald.  .  .  oh, and Tavis Smiley).

      You don't do the latter when you have vicious nihilists on the other side constantly releasing invective and trying to bring down the President.

      When is Cornel West going to do a "golf" column?

      Steve Gilliard Lives.

      by Bethesda 1971 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:22:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So while West calls Obama a liar and a fraud, (3+ / 0-)

      by pretending that Obama implied he would prosecute Bush and Cheney, support Hamas over Israel, and everything else on West's wish list,

      God forbid anyone bring up that West does, in fact, have a bug so far up his ass it's affecting his brain.

      Going so far as to call him a "Republican in blackface".

      http://thegrio.com/...

      Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

      by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:41:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ...And there it goes. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayRaye, cybrestrike

      A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:56:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Cornel West can Fuck Off (8+ / 0-)

    He says stupid shit like this to get the attention he so desperately needs.  

    Trust-Fund Kids of America Unite... save the Bush tax cuts!

    by JCPOK on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:54:38 AM PDT

  •  Because of the HUGE INTEREST IN CORNEL WEST (6+ / 0-)

    (nothing is so exciting as a criticism that sounds like a bloggy purist made it)
    I can copy my comments from an earlier diary.

    I'd like to meet the dipshit who (1+ / 0-)

    actually thought Obama was FOR prosecuting Bush and Cheney, FOR siding with Hamas over Israel, AGAINST using drones.  

    But I guess if you want to lie and say Obama took all those positions during the campaign, it makes an easy argument as to why he should have taken them now.   Easier than actually, you know, saying why

    I figure it's this: (1+ / 0-)

    you could say
     a)"I campaigned for Obama but the world is disillusioned that he lied to us";
     or
     b) "I campaigned for Obama but the world is disillusioned because he's not doing all the awesome things I would do if I were president".

    If you use A), it's like Obama testifying against Obama, but if you use B), it's like West testifying against Obama.

    Because West has very little cred and Obama has lots, you choose a).

    Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

    by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:29:24 AM PDT

    •  They aren't any better the second time… (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc

      …around, so you can stop patting yourself on the back, now.




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

      by DeadHead on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:41:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But trolling is always good, right? (0+ / 0-)

        Oh, wait...that's Jello.  

        Never mind.  

        Oh, look, six recs for me, only Pope Dallasdoc for you.

        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

        by Inland on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:34:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cornel gets a little, errmm, crazy sometimes (0+ / 0-)

    Exhibit 'A' is that he complains that the President "posed as a progressive".

    Well, no, not really. I don't think that almost any one of us saw it that way. Saying a lot of things we wanted to hear along with making it sound like sweet dripping honey at the same time is not the same as "posing as a progressive".

    I know I commented at the time (around 2008) that this candidate would be less than liberal, and I wasn't the only one.

    It's a police riot. You know what a police riot is? It's when the police riot.

    by thenekkidtruth on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:33:13 AM PDT

  •  A Sad Vendetta Against President Obama (7+ / 0-)

    Cornel West's legitimacy as a public intellectual hinges upon him discrediting the President especially with black voters. It's a sad position to be in that leads to contradicting statements -- like Pres. Obama is "brown-faced Bill Clinton" even as he acknowledges the differences between Obama and the Clintons.

    Self-appointed gatekeepers of black identity and experience have seen their privileged position erode since the President was elected and reelected despite their best efforts.

    I think the first duty of society is justice. - Alexander Hamilton

    by liamcdg on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:34:46 AM PDT

    •  "A Republican in blackface", as another example. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TFinSF, mallyroyal, carlos the jackal

      http://thegrio.com/...

      Self-appointed gatekeepers of black identity and experience have seen their privileged position erode since the President was elected and reelected despite their best efforts.
      Yeah.

      Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

      by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:42:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "a certain fear of free black men" is another gem (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Chitown Kev, carlos the jackal, poco

        from a couple years back.

        "black mascot of the oligarchs" is a fave.

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:59:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yep, but the white "progressive" Obama bashers (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mallyroyal

          ate up those offense remarks of West like flies eat shit.  They can't get enough of that stuff from a black person, since they think an Obama basher's being black gives them cover and license to engage in the vilest of anti-Obama rhetoric themselves.

          What they don't get is that West has no relevance in the black community, contrary to the misperceptions of white progressive Obama bashers.  He doesn't give them the cover they think he does.

  •  I have some issues with (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liamcdg, TFinSF, TomP, FG, jacey, poco

    Dr. West views here but it's not as if other people, of all races, don't have criticisms of this president...I agree with some views and disagree with others.

    But Dr West's well-known vendetta against the President for perceived slights needs to be taken into account here as well and this is just foul:

    And we ended up with a brown-faced Clinton. Another opportunist. Another neoliberal opportunist. It’s like, “Oh, no, don’t tell me that!” I tell you this, because I got hit hard years ago, but everywhere I go now, it’s “Brother West, I see what you were saying. Brother West, you were right. Your language was harsh and it was difficult to take, but you turned out to be absolutely right.” And, of course with Ferguson, you get it reconfirmed even among the people within his own circle now, you see. It’s a sad thing. It’s like you’re looking for John Coltrane and you get Kenny G in brown skin.
    and this:
    Yeah, he’s already said, this is it. He’s concerned about his legacy as if he’s somehow been swinging for black folk ever since he’s been in there. That’s a lie. He’s been silent, too. He’s been relatively silent. He’s made a couple of gestures in regards to the New Jim Crow and the prison-industrial complex, but that’s just lately, on his way out. He was there for six years and didn’t do nothing. See what I mean?
    Didn't some of those guidelines change within the President's first 2 years of office?
    But, no: MSNBC, state press, it’s all Obama propaganda, and Sharpton is the worst.
    I dare Dr. West to say that to Al Sharpton's face.

    Actually, it's a good interview with too much over-the top invective.  

    •  Hilarious... (8+ / 0-)

      When Bush was POTUS and we progressives rightfully criticized him, the red staters screamed like fourth graders: "you hate our President". "you're out to get him!" we progressives rightfully called this a worthless emotional response that didn't address the criticism.

      One of our foremost social intellectuals criticizes Obama, and that means "he has a well known vendetta against the President".

      The "perceived slights" is insulting to the Nth degree. it smacks of right wing baloney such as "racism is in the past" and "everyone just shut up and be happy we have some sort of democrat as President".

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:55:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama's campaign platform in 2008 (11+ / 0-)

    Included a green new deal (Van Jones was an early casualty of that broken promise), reining in the fossil fuel industry,  removing or modifying the income cap subject to Social Security tax as a way of saving the system,  a public option and an increase in alternatives to the auto industry complex in the form of high speed rail.  He mentioned initiatives to help the middle class as well such as higher wages and infrastructure jobs, but most of this wad replaced by tax cuts. He allowed a Democratic-led lame duck congress to extend the Bush tax cuts in 2010 and signed off on it when the best course of action was to do nothing. He also explicitly mentioned the rule of law and curtailing the excesses of the MIC and the surveillance state.  Granted some of this was torpedoed by reactionary Republican governors such as Rick Scott and Scott Walker (high speed rail),  but basically a lot of this, not particularly radical or progressive,  just mainstream Eisenhower Republican ideas, were left by the wayside,  and those that were blocked by the reactionaries he did not mount a defense of.

    So how about some facts here? Or do you want us to conveniently toss actual planks in an actually written campaign platform down the memory hole. Seems like the tactics of those who prefer the cult of personality over actual things that could help people.  And Hillary isn't even going through the pretense of writing a platform,  fitting for a Rupert Murdoch "Democrat".

    •  Lets go point by point... (7+ / 0-)

      1. The Stimulus included more investment in green energy in one fell swoop than the entire history of the country by the US Govt.

      2. Reining in the fossil fuel industry?  He had an all the above energy plan. Wind energy has boomed since he took office...solar is taking off. He installed fuel efficiency standards that are going to produce huge increases in mileage.

      3. SS tax reform?  He cannot do that without congress.

      3. High speed rail?  The money was there in the stimulus but governers blocked it....you expect the President to take out Gov Walker?  Have him eliminated? Right.

      4. Higher wages and infrastructure....stimulus had 125 billion in infrastructure.  Saved 1.3 million jobs. Congress has blocked every other job initiative by the President.

      5. By extending tax cuts in 2010, he won unemployment insurance concessions, got rid of DADT, and got the START Treaty passed by congress, reducing nuclear proliferation around world..
      And in 2012, he got those tax cuts repealed for the wealthiest americans and raised their capital gains rate by 50%.

      This whole bully pulpit thing is like out of the dark ages....in this polarized country...nobody listens to anyone outside their echo chamber.

      Somehow the President mounting a defense of high speed rail was going to get Terry Branstad, GOP governor of Iowa to yield?   I gotta a bridge to sell you.

    •  Do you know what a platform is? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheLizardKing

      It's what he wants to do, will try to do.

      And I really don't think that West is blowing a gasket over high speed rail.  Or anyone is blowing a gasket over a failure to lift the cap on SS.

      Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

      by Inland on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:15:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  However plenty of people are upset (8+ / 0-)

        about the bipartisan consensus to continue Reaganomics, the idea of making lower classes sacrifice more, the bloated military, the national security state,  the continued slow motion deterioration of the country and the lack of will to solve systemic problems that the Fortune 400 find profitable. Not to mention the lack of reversal of policy of the last 33 years that brought us to that point. Status quo is not the hope and change we were promised but it is an improvement over reactionary ideals that are common among the American public.    As Paul Wellstone once said politics should be about improving people's lives, and status quo is stasis that doesn't wear well with an increasingly restive public and does not generate those improvements.

        I think that is the point Cornel West is trying to make. In trying times milquetoasts don't cut it.

        •  police won't change because system isn't changing (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead, poco

          police terrorism is the domestic reflection of USA imperialism in our wars of choice and authoritarian regimes we sent weapons to.

          as you say, there's too much bipartisan support for stuff that won't improve things for most of us, and the police are there to be enforcers when we object too much.

          The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

          by stargaze on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:21:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The president only has so much power he choose ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poco

    The president only has so much power he choose to prevent another Great Depression instead of dealing with the right wing outrage if he tried. Holder tried to prosecute an executive he was aquited he said we need stronger laws.

    The president has to deal with 2 houses of congress and the judicial branch he has limits to what he can do, he has only had a democratic congress for 2 years, get out and vote and give him a democratic congress in 2015 so he can fix the tax code and get those trillions the government deserves by closing loopholes. The gop won't that's who pays their bills so vote dem in 2014.

    •  The President had the bully pulpit (9+ / 0-)

      Unfortunately he let it sit in the back corner of the closet and grow moldy for the first six years of his term. Now he pulls out a bit of rhetoric when he is up against the ropes with bad polling numbers he finally calls Congress on the carpet.  And if he really wanted to do something progressive and outside the box he he would have vetoed the craptastic legislation from the 2010 lame duck Democratic congress that extended the Bush tax cuts.  And he has said not a word about or extended a helping hand towards us in Wisconsin who are suffering because a reactionary state government has stymied the few good things he has done at a federal level such as the Medicaid expansion or high speed rail infrastructure,  nor is he or any of the DC Democratic mandarins any help for getting rid of Paul Ryan who has credible opposition in Rob Zerban and could help give him the Democratic congress he supposedly wants to get things done

      •  People appreciate it when their elected officials (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead, JayRaye, allenjo

        TRY.  That is try, not the first syllable of Triangulate.

        A big part of trying is to use the bully pulpit of the Presidency to push Congress to get things done.  In many  instances when the President could have used the Bully pulpit, he actually pre compromised his position leaving himself little room to negotiate.  I do not think the Obama is either stupid or simply a poor negotiator.  I think he did it by design.

        "I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~ So.Lib.inMD UID166438

        by gulfgal98 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:23:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  too bad more progressives ran.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poco

    for office..if they could get elected. This government will not bend by the influence of one man.  I'm sure the president has made mistakes, but not knowing the choices available with each decision, unfortunately I can not get on the bash wagon.

    •  The government bends by the influence (10+ / 0-)

      of the Fortune 400 richest Americans and is arguably the junior partner in that relationship.  When you have the choice of a Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton,  or Paul Ryan jammed down your throat and they are all loved by the Kochs and Rupert Murdoch, I don't get that ANY of these choices are progressive,  let alone moderate by the standards of 20th century US history.

      And when a genuine progressive Democrat not beholden to the oligarchy party runs like Rob Zerban runs he is completely ignored by the Party establishment because they want their reactionary lackey foil Paul Ryan in power so they can ram through the latest bipartisan compromise that codifies Reaganomics and the continued upwards redistribution of wealth.

  •  A Brother From Another Planet (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Utahrd

    Welcome to our 21st Century, Mr. West, on this planet we are our own experts and we allow others the same privilege.

    Throwing our President under to bus, PROFITABLE. I get it, could that be the reason for your million dollar smile. :D

  •  It's actually not about Obama. It's about us. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Victor Ward, MRDFS, Dallasdoc, gulfgal98

    It's about not doing what needed to be done at the time it needed to be done.  Lost opportunity to turn this thing around.  Whatever the political lay of the land, we did not have the person with the character necessary to do the things that needed to get done.  It's more sad than personal.  Maybe it was asking and expecting too much. Maybe we were already too far gone.

    Having lost the chance and the choice to guide and direct our own futures, it seems we are now left to allow involuntary events to overtake us.

    "Gentlemen, let's get the thing straight, once and for all. The policeman isn't there to create disorder; the policeman is there to preserve disorder." Richard J. Daley.

    by Publius2008 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:51:47 AM PDT

  •  Valid criticisms (0+ / 0-)

    At the same time, he clearly has a personal vendetta as well.

    West is a limousine liberal who bounces back and forth between Ivy League schools.   Went he left Harvard out of protest did he take his talents and profile to some state school or historically black college?  Naw, he went to Princeton.  So he needs to have a few seats...just a little too self righteous and cartoonish for my taste.   Lotta ego there.  And I saw it when he came speak at my law school in 97

  •  Nothing West said was news. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gulfgal98, DeadHead, JayRaye, cybrestrike

    And I have no idea if people will figure it out even as the disasters start to compound.

    "Here in America, the difference between Democrats and Republicans — we’re fighting inside the 40-yard lines." -- Barack Obama

    by Cassiodorus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:04:25 PM PDT

  •  There is nohting white Obama haters of the left (0+ / 0-)

    love more than a black person trashing the President.

    Cornell West was relevant in the 90's.  Hasn't been relevant since.

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