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Note to Paul Ryan: You might want to avoid Florida on your next book tour, seeing as how that's where a lot of seniors live with time on their hands to wait in line to talk to you. When we last caught up with him in Pensicola, he was avidy dodging uncomfortable questions. But, as you can see in the video above, someone finally pinned him down on his Medicare cuts, and got a big, fat lie from Ryan.
Voter: “Are you planning any cuts to Medicare?”
Ryan: "No"
Then there's some song and dance about how if you are "in or near retirement, nothing will change." Is 55 near retirement? From a financial standpoint, absolutely. And if you're 55 or younger, Ryan wants you to have to pay a lot more for your Medicare through his voucher plan. That's along with increasing out-of-pocket expenses for traditional Medicare plans (like what people have now) to try to force them into the privatized voucher plans.

Ryan should probably stick to his avoidance tactics. If he doesn't open his mouth, he won't be lying.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:49 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (34+ / 0-)

    "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. [...] There would be no place to hide."--Frank Church

    by Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:49:32 AM PDT

  •  Ryan certainly is relying on older folks to be (14+ / 0-)

    overwhelmed with his boyish charm and neatly parted hair so much so that they fail to see that he's trying to move those two remaining pots of big money into the private sector where there is a stark history of high rolling and crapshooting.  Government collected money earmarked for specific programs should never, make that never, be handed off to outfits that have required or are likely to require bailouts.  The very existence of the FDIC is evidence that banks cannot guarantee the safety of citizens' money; therefore, banks are not suitable repositories of our SS funds.  
    As for Medicare being converted into a voucher program, well, there is the problem of the elderly having to make critical judgments at a time in life when that my not be possible because of diminished capacity.  There doesn't seem to be a big demand for elderly clients by the health care insurers for obvious reasons, the same reasons that our military personnel have their own special coverage.  It's the nature of the risk involved.

    Building a better America with activism, cooperation, ingenuity and snacks.

    by judyms9 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:08:25 PM PDT

    •  Open mouth, feces fall out. (5+ / 0-)

      Paraphrase from Robin Williams "Reality What a Concept" album.

      "Death is the winner in any war." - Nightwish/Imaginareum/Song of myself.

      by doingbusinessas on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:43:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm one of your "older folks" AND (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not fooled by "his boyish charm and neatly parted hair."  It is obvious to see him for what he really is:  A snake oil salesman for the obscenely wealthy, or their boy lackey, or just their boy.  He is the worst kind of hypocrite, because his mother took social security "death benefits" when his father died, and he used that money to get a college education.  I don't believe that he actually needed the money.

      If both the Senate and the House turn red, the reality is that "lyin ryin" will get his way, and social security and medicare will be programs of the past that protect the "older folks" from poverty in their "golden" years.

      I'm always been astounded at the number of people who are so gullible as to believe any crap spouted by politicians, who are corporate lackeys.  The perfect examples were spewed from one of ronbo's orifices:  The government is the enemy and trickle down.  Our government may not be the best, but what government is.  And "trickle down" was the biggest load of horseshit that I have ever heard or seen.  And yet the people bought it hook, line, and sinker.  

      The farther back one looks, the farther forward one can see.

      by MtnWolfGrl on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:40:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is he ashamed of his actual beliefs? If people (9+ / 0-)

    wold reject him if they knew the truth then doesn't that tell you your policy beliefs are wrong for the people you want to serve?

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:08:32 PM PDT

  •  If he can't handle "a little old lady" (10+ / 0-)

    how can he handle Putin

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:29:15 PM PDT

  •  In fairness (4+ / 0-)

    In the Republican world where you are expected to work until the day you die, 55 is nowhere near retirement.  So I'll rate that claim as "half true."

    30, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:36:06 PM PDT

    •  exactly. the follow up question (0+ / 0-)

      To Paully needs to be: are you raising the retirement age?
      When he says yes, next question is:
      To what?

      Deceiving little man.

      Aaron Woolf for NY21 in 2014. Elizabeth Warren for President in 2016. And Zephyr Rain Teachout for NY Gov 2014. This is how change happens.

      by karma13612 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:43:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ryan in wait (4+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:47:57 PM PDT

  •  If he doesn't open his mouth, he won't be lying... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rocksout

    Yes, but as a Catholic knows, he should know he's still committing a sin of omission, misrepresenting his plan and then failing to own up to the contradictions.

    I ditched all that religion jive years ago, but Ryan claims to believe it. So, he should know that withholding the truth or even using weasel words and telling half-truths is still morally equivalent to lying.

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:09:42 PM PDT

  •  This is why (4+ / 0-)

    Ryan is so dangerous. He can look you in the eye and with all conviction lie through his teeth. Very dangerous politician.

  •  Lyin' Ryan Strikes Again! (0+ / 0-)

    Why would we expect anything different?

  •  Spellcheck: PensAcola. :-) nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mHainds

    "So, am I right or what?"

    by itzik shpitzik on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:13:30 PM PDT

  •  This is where we need to call them out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ichibon, scribeboy

    "Then there's some song and dance about how if you are "in or near retirement, nothing will change." "

    If the changes are just so gosh darn wonderful, they should be implemented FOR EVERYONE AT THE SAME TIME.  Let's experience the "benefits" of the changes ASAP, right?

    Let retired seniors feel the same "joy" that they are willing to inflict on their own children and grand-children.

    If it needs to be done "for the good of the country", they should be willing to do their part to help, right?

    If a small minority of people is now stealthily ruling what was previously a democratic country, and "the people" don't seem to realize it, should anyone bother to tell them?

    by Older and Wiser Now on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:36:41 PM PDT

  •  that's all republicans can do: lie (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Older and Wiser Now
  •  "We gotta save it for the next generation," he ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Older and Wiser Now

    "We gotta save it for the next generation," he says at the end of the clip. That's like saying Israel wants to save Gaza for the next generation.

  •  Send him back to Janesville (0+ / 0-)

    Take some time to check out
    Rob Zerban
    Progressive WI-01

    http://www.robzerban.com/

    With your help Ryan can be off the National Stage.  We're working hard here in WI-01, give us hand if you can.  WI-01 will thank you.  The country will thank you.

    The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

    by GreatLakeSailor on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:39:56 PM PDT

  •  Typical repub thinking: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Older and Wiser Now

    I've got mine, so screw you.
    They seem to think that everyone is just like them, that because I won't be effected, it's alright.

    Severely Socialist 47283

    by ichibon on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:42:58 PM PDT

  •  It's not a voucher plan; it's a plan to kill folks (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Older and Wiser Now, karma13612

    Ryan's plan, which the press called a voucher, isn't really a voucher at all.  A voucher has value; you can trade it in for something.  Ryan's plan was merely a discount coupon for private insurance.  If you couldn't pay the difference between the discount value of the coupon and the actual price, you got nothing for it.

    Sometimes car dealers mail out coupons.  $3000 off a new Cadillac!  What is the coupon worth?  Zero, of course, unless you plan to buy a Cadillac, and can afford it.  Likewise, Ryan's plan leaves people uninsured unless they can pony up the difference between its shrinking value and the increasing cost of private insurance.  And if you're over 65, private insurance (which barely exists to day for that group; it's all based on Medicare one way or another) will be VERY expensive!  And since he violently opposes Obamacare, he'd probably allow pre-existing conditions to be excluded.

    So it's a fraud, a trick to take away medical care from all but the richest seniors.  The payoff is that most Americas will then die faster.  That will reduce Social Security payouts, so he can raid that to give tax breaks to the ultra-rich.

    Talk about death panels...

    •  Does it bother you not to know Medicare facts? (0+ / 0-)

      The Wyden-Ryan Medicare reform plan included no voucher and no coupon.  It would work the way Obamacare insurance and RomneyCare insurance work. And both of them work exactly the way President Clinton's now 15-year-old public Part C Medicare Advantage program works. And they all work the way your insurance from your employer works and has worked for over 75 years.

      What is really incredible about the comments on this thread is that people seem to have no idea what they face once they are Medicare age if no changes are made. Today on average Medicare covers less than half of a person's healthcare costs and that percentage is getting worse by the year. Wyden-Ryan fixes that. Today over 95% of the people on Medicare make other -- mostly private -- arrangement to protect themselves against financial bankruptcy that Medicare could cause (that is, there is no catastrophic coverage and no annual out of pocket limits in Medicare). Obamacare fixed that for everyone else; Wyden-Ryan would fix that for seniors. Today, pre-existing conditions can get you excluded from the private Medigap insurance you need to protect yourself from those problems in Medicare. Obamacare did not fix that for seniors. Wyden-Ryan fixes that for seniors. No annual physicals; Wyden-Ryan fixes that. The list of problems is long and yet you pretend everything is fine and that reform is not needed.

      •  Not the same plan (0+ / 0-)

        Wyden would no sign on to Ryan's original plan, which was in his first budget.  He may be trying to cover his tracks by agreeing that other changes would be an improvement -- less coverage - to him, over the status quo, but his person preference was clearly expressed for a kill-the-seniors coupon plan that bore as much resemblance to Medicare Advantage as a domesticated turkey does to a tyrannosaurus rex.

      •  If Wyden-Ryan Medicare reform "fixes" (0+ / 0-)

        Medicare to "work the way Obamacare insurance and RomneyCare insurance work" why on Earth does the GOP support it at the same time that House GOP's have voted over 50 times to repeal Obamacare?

        You write, "Today on average Medicare covers less than half of a person's healthcare costs and that percentage is getting worse by the year. Wyden-Ryan fixes that."  Please explain in detail HOW it does that.

        And also explain how much money it will cost, and where that money will magically come from?  You see, a couple of us have noticed that the party of the right consistently wants to pay as little as they can in taxes, and cut services to "slackers who don't deserve anything" (which means poor people).  

        But if you have good answers, I am more than willing to listen to what you have to say.  We don't like "magical thinking" around here, or assurances to "just trust us, we're doing the right thing for the country with this".  Explain in detail how it will work, please.  Thank you.

        If a small minority of people is now stealthily ruling what was previously a democratic country, and "the people" don't seem to realize it, should anyone bother to tell them?

        by Older and Wiser Now on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:36:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  big picture and wyden-ryan details (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Older and Wiser Now

          Older and wiser

          My point is really two fold: A. the current Medicare system is badly broken and those of you under 65 on this web site (given your handle I take it that is not you) should not pretend it isn't (for your own sakes) B. No one is proposing a voucher or coupon as part of Medicare reform... period (and never has as far back as I have looked). Use of the term in the original comment to which you and are replying is pure demagoging (sp.). The various insurance-reform systems of the past 20 years -- Obamacare insurance, Medicare Part C, Medicare Part D, RomneyCare -- and most modern employer insurance, and the Wyden-Ryan proposal are all the same in terms of being based on defined contribution.  

          I am not claiming that Wyden Ryan is the solution but it is the only thing on the table today. And I am not a member of the GOP so I have no idea why that party supports some things and not others (ditto for Dems; why are they in favor of reproductive-health choice but not Medicare or education or right to work choice?) All I am saying is that reform of Medicare is needed.

          But to answer your two questions solely based on my opinion:

          1. The Wyden-Ryan proposal would save seniors money on average primarily because of its annual out pocket (OOP)spending limit but also because of other features and benefits it includes that are not included in current Medicare (e.g., dental I think). Current Medicare has no OOP limit but has high co-pays and lifetime limits on the benefits it will pay making it the only insurance I ever heard of that fails on both the high side and the low side. Also presumably -- but Wyden and Ryan are not clear about this -- it would eliminate the need for private Medigap insurance which is almost always more costly than the public Part C supplement, also saving seniors money if they choose it. Forgetting savings, having an annual OOP limit is just plain good financial protection that makes people feel better; that's why it is a key part of Obamacare insurance.
          2. The Wyden-Ryan proposal would save the government money because it is based on the same percentage spending growth cap concept on Medicare as in current law, the cap on Medicare spending growth in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. I think it actually uses the same percentage. The question is whether such a cap is more likely to work under current law or under reform based on competition. All kinds of research (see Cutler/Song/and others in JAMA in August 2012, the GAO this week, many other sources) says competition cuts costs in this context. It certainly cuts waste and that alone would save the government $100 billion a year in Medicare.

          (As an aside, I don't mind detail but I see a lot of "magical thinking" on this thread.)

          •  Medicare may not be perfect (0+ / 0-)

            but believe me, it is a whole lot better than private insurance.

            You have NO IDEA what the insurance companies would be charging you if you had to fend with them to obtain insurance as a senior.  No idea.  I am 53.  I paid SS and Medicare taxes ALL MY LIFE, and now just when I am approaching the time of obtaining the benefits THAT I HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR (PREPAID) the GOP wants to "fix" Medicare so they can "save it" for the next generation.  Hah.  If a private company did that, it would be called FRAUD.  But the evil government can do it and get away with it.  Note that the "evil government" is EVIL because of what the GOP wants to do to common people so they can lower taxes for the rich. Reverse robin hood, steal from the poor to give to the rich.  What am I getting with their "fixes"?  A whole lot of nothing, because I am two years away from the magic age of 55.  The insurance companies are playing a game called "shoot fish in a barrel" because they can.  They are the gatekeepers to healthcare, bless their souls.  

            Private insurance companies are not subject to the Sherman Anti-Trust act, which means that they can (and do) conspire to fix prices and it is all legal.  They are raising the amount that the insured must pay because ... capitalism.   They make more money that way.  Wendell Potter knows, I already sent you the link, I highly encourage you to watch it.

            Do you have links to back up what you say?  To places that are not right-wing think tanks/propaganda outlets like Heritage?  Or is this all stuff that you have figured out on your own?

            You wrote: "Current Medicare has no OOP limit but has high co-pays and lifetime limits on the benefits it will pay" but I did the google and found this (which seems to contradict what you are saying):
            http://www.eldercareteam.com/...

            Unlike some health insurance, Medicare has no lifetime benefit limit. Medicare hospital benefits are paid on the basis of "benefit periods." A benefit period starts the day a person with Medicare goes into the hospital. It ends when the person has not received hospital or skilled nursing care for 60 days in a row.

            If a person with Medicare returns to the hospital before the 60 "out of care facility" days are up, it is considered to be part of the original benefit period. If 60 days have passed since the patient was in a hospital or skilled nursing facility, a new benefit period begins.

            The patient must pay the Part A deductible for each benefit period. There is no limit to the number of separate benefit periods a person with Medicare can have for hospital or skilled nursing facility care in a lifetime. For each benefit period, Medicare pays all covered costs except the Medicare Part A deductible during the first 60 hospital days.

            If a small minority of people is now stealthily ruling what was previously a democratic country, and "the people" don't seem to realize it, should anyone bother to tell them?

            by Older and Wiser Now on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 08:24:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It's not a voucher plan. Exactly right. (0+ / 0-)

      When one is old enough to sign up for Medicare at age 65, or younger if disabled, one only gets Part A for free, and that only pays 80% of what is allowed by Medicare.  For Example:  The reality is that if a procedure is $500 which is set by the government, then Medicare pays $400.  Either the Medicare beneficiary pays for other $100 or has Medigap insurance to pay the other $100.  Now Part B is available for a little more than $100 per month (I forget the exact price, and it is deducted from the social security check or one must pay directly).  It is also the same "setup" as Part A:  set prices for procedures, and Medicare pays 80%.

      The Medi-gap or Medicare Advantage Insurance is really a rip-off, in my opinion.  Most insurance companies carry this kind of insurance, but it is expensive.  I had Humana for four years, and sometimes, the price would jump $20, and that is per month.  Every year they set a new higher price, and they have indexed it to increase every two years.  I started out paying $128/month at age 65, and by age 69, I would have been paying $185/month.  I elected
      to go with blue shield, because they are subsidized by the state of California along with anthem blue cross (the only insurers that are subsidized, I might add), because the price was $158/month.  And then blue shield raised the premium in August to $165.  They are the worst insurance company ever.  I have been to the doctor three times in six months, and have received nothing from them saying that they paid anything.  And the plans are exactly the same.  I have only two more appointments for a total of 5 this year.  What is suspicious about this raise in the middle of summer is that blue shield just bought a luxury box at the new 49er's stadium for $2.5 MILLION.  

      I hate insurance companies, and believe that the citizens would be better off with single-payer where we contribute $5 - $10 per paycheck to the system.

      The farther back one looks, the farther forward one can see.

      by MtnWolfGrl on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:15:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No one of the Republican variety should come (0+ / 0-)

    to Florida to discuss our health care system. Thanks to our Governor and our State House R's our entire Medicaid system has virtually disappeared.

    Not only has is shrunk, 1000s of children who used to be fully covered are now either going without health care or are getting terrible health care options at the 3 insurance company sites for which they "qualify": this includes nearly all foster care children who don't have "life threatening" illnesses.

    An infant with epileptic seizures, autism and orthopedic problems is no longer in our Medicaid program because he is not sick enough to qualify because he is in foster care and supposedly a ward of the State. That's right,  EPILEPTIC SEIZURES ARE NOT LIFE THREATENING ENOUGH for the State of Florida.

    Take that baby to an Emergency Room and if they don't actually see the seizure while it's happening, they will turn you away.

  •  Hearing Aids need to be covered under Medicare. (0+ / 0-)

    Please sign our petition to have Medicare cover hearing aids under HR 3150.  http://petitions.moveon.org/...

    Please repost to all social media and write your Congressmember.  We need this to go viral so Congress hears our voices.

    Janice Schacter Lintz, Chair, Hearing Access Program

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