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Buck 65 -- "Wicked and Weird"

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Comment Preferences

  •  One whole day without DKE Live Digest? (5+ / 0-)

    How's a boy supposed to survive. </3

    18 year old gay Democrat living bright blue in deep red SC-04 (Gowdy). "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." - John Lennon

    by SCDem4 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 04:13:09 PM PDT

  •  Think I'll beat the rush and just give my (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Freego10

    official senate predictions right now.

    For all competitive seats or pickups:

    SD: R 57 - D 41
    KS: R 47 - D 31 - I 21
    MT: R 56 - D 42
    WV: R 54 - D 45
    GA: R 52 - D 45
    KY: R 51 - D 47
    LA: R 52 - D 48 (runoff)
    AK: R 49 - D 47
    AR: R 49 - D 48
    NC: D 50 - R 47
    IA: D 51 - R 47
    CO: D 51 - R 46
    MI: D 53 - R 46
    NH: D 54 - R 44

    Resulting in a 51 R - 49 D Senate.

    Damn, I'm predicting a pretty annoying outcome.

    •  SD 57-41? (6+ / 0-)

      There are multiple independent candidates that are polling decently. There's no way they'll combine for just 2%.

      Really, the results could be anywhere within these ranges for each candidate:

      Rounds: 40-55%
      Weiland: 30-45%
      Pressler: 5-20%
      Howie: 2-5%

      08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

      by wwmiv on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 05:28:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ah, see, but what you're overlooking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Freego10, Zack from the SFV

        is the fact that I didn't know that. Because I have paid zero attention to the SD Senate race.

        New prediction!
        Rounds 51 - Weiland 35 - Pressler 11 - Howie 3

        Pulled out of my butt, obviously. (My other predictions are a bit more informed.)

        •  I'd go with (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KingofSpades, MichaelNY, Freego10

          Rounds 49
          Weiland 36
          Pressler 12
          Howie 3

          08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

          by wwmiv on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 06:05:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Pressler will do better than that (0+ / 0-)

            On name ID alone, he'll hit 20.

            •  I very much doubt that, even though I gave him (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jncca, MichaelNY

              a relatively wide range of 5-20% in my post above.

              In polls that have included him, he's never exceeded 18% and has averaged 16%. Independent candidates' support always plummets on election day relative to their polling average even in cases where there is a strong independent candidate unless the independent candidate is functioning as a defacto partisan nominee for one of the two major parties (such as Elliot Cutler). Thus, given the average, I see him losing about 4% and getting around 12%, which is basically the midpoint of the larger range that he could take.

              08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

              by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:18:13 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  pressler's only raised 100k (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              itskevin, wwmiv, MichaelNY

              and spent half of that, whereas rounds and weiland has raised almost 5 mil combined [3.7 for rounds and 1.1 for weiland].  meanwhile there hasn't been any reported outside spending.  a candidate needs more than money of course, but he can't be outspent 37:1 against rounds or 48:1 against all his opponents and still win or even break the 20%.

              NH-01. First time living in NH, waiting for the candidates to start a courting.

              by DougTuttle on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:46:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Wait what? (4+ / 0-)

          You haven't paid attention to the SD race over the last like two weeks with the multiple dueling polls and large level of DKE discussion focused on the race?

          Just poking. :P

          08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

          by wwmiv on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 06:06:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  right now I think we hold it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY, DCCyclone

      I think Braley, Hagan, Pryor and Begich will prevail, and we'll be left holding the senate going into the LA runoff.

      We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

      by James Allen on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 06:20:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I highly doubt Pryor's race will (0+ / 0-)

        be closer than Landrieu's.

        "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

        by ArkDem14 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 07:28:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  We'll call LA "Operation Icing on the Cake" (0+ / 0-)
        •  No (0+ / 0-)

          Because history always repeats in farce, and then Republicans can do "operation pie in the face".

          08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

          by wwmiv on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 07:56:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Braley runs awful campaign, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Freego10

        and this is a reason for worry. Pryor may win, but - extremely narrowly. Hagan - likely, Begich - not so sure. And i am an extremely big fan of Landrieu (possibly - the closest to my views Senator), but in the run-off her chances are not good. Simply because of usual drop-off, which is VERY likely.

        Very Independent minded. Moderate. Extremely cynical (main principle: don't easily believe anyone, but himself).

        by Ragmod on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:18:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Dropoff doesn't happen all that much in LA (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY, terranova108

          between the general and the runoff.  Now, if a major storm delays voting, as it did in 2008, that's another thing.

          “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

          by KingofSpades on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:21:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Supposedly her 2002 runoff showing (6+ / 0-)

            portended a loss by many in the media, but she won.  In 2011 legislature races, vulnerable Dems weren't knocked off in the runoffs.  They even held one House district that was expected.to be an automatic loss since it was a dark red part of Cajun country, the Dem incumbent was retiring due to redistricting, and the runoff faced a Democrat with a Spanish name (Stephen Juan Ortego, who speaks French and Cajun fluently) against a Dem-turned-Repub with a Cajun name after the Dem only got 30-odd percent in the first round against two conservatives.

            “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

            by KingofSpades on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:25:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Very independent minded. (0+ / 0-)

          Not really relevant to your comment, but I was curious about your signature. What makes you very independent-minded / what makes anyone independent-minded?

          Impractical progressive Democrat. "I am becoming less and less interested in your estimates of what is possible." - President Merkin Muffley (Dr. Strangelove)

          by redrelic17 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:26:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Basically: (0+ / 0-)

            Belief in correctness of my own opinion against "official" opinion of any party and organization. Dislike of accepting of any opinion (but own) as a final truth (yes, i can correct or change my own opinion too, but only after very strong arguments and considerable time for rethinking). General political views, which doesn't fully correlate with any's party program: somewhat conservative on fiscal matters, rather strongly liberal on most (but not all) social ones. Think about a cross between Melissa Bean and Charles Mathias (or Jim Jeffords).... Desire to vote for candidate, not party, and generally - not especially high respect for parties as they are...

            And so on. Probably i wouldn't feel "at home" neither at Democratic nor (obviously - even more) Republican caucuses, both of which are dominated by relatively radical activists. I like long thinking and compromises and don't believe in "simple good decisions"..

            P.S. That's for me only. Add to this rugged individualism and almost autism - and you will get a picture. But other persons may have very different reasons.

            P.S. 2 My apologies to all for offtopic. I hope this will not lead to ANY discussion of my very humble person))

            Very Independent minded. Moderate. Extremely cynical (main principle: don't easily believe anyone, but himself).

            by Ragmod on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:54:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I think Begich wins (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY, anshmishra

      and Pressler does better than 2% in SD.

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 08:14:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I (5+ / 0-)

    hated linking to the Daily Mail, but a Survation poll done for the upcoming Clacton by-election shows UKIP will easily win the seat from the Tories. This by-election was triggered when Clacton MP Douglas Carswell defected from the Tories to UKIP and promptly resigned his seat in order to be reelected as a UKIP MP.

    Here are some of the figures (+/- change from 2010):

    UKIP: 64% (+64)
    Con: 20% (-33)
    Lab: 13% (-12)
    Lib Dem: 2% (-11)
    Oth: 9% (9)
    If Boris Johnson stood for the Tories:

    UKIP: 60%
    Con: 27%
    Lab: 10%
    Lib Dem: 1%(!!!)

    Is Carswell a hero or traitor (Tory voters):

    Hero: 49%
    Traitor: 17%
    Don't know: 35%

    The Republican party is now an extreme right-wing party that is owned by their billionaire campaign contributors. - Bernie Sanders

    by ehstronghold on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 05:49:42 PM PDT

    •  Looks like UKIP will doom the Cons in 2015 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, anshmishra

      Wish the Tea Party broke off and formed their own legitimate third party to doom the Repubs here in the states.

      •  To be fair... (6+ / 0-)

        this is pretty much as ideal as it will ever get for UKIP. This seat is one of the most demographically favorable for UKIP in the country (downscale, smalltown/rural, limited Labour and union history) and they have a popular, non-crazy, incumbent to run.

        All that being said it's definitely a shot across the bow to the Conservatives. Hopefully they don't do anything stupid in response to the UKIP threat like pushing forward a referendum to leave the EU.

        28, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

        by okiedem on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 07:03:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Electorally speaking (0+ / 0-)

          do you think that would hurt them or help them for 2015?

          21, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
          politicohen.com
          Idiosyncratic, pro-establishment. Liberal, not progressive. For the poor, the children, the planet, and the rule of law.
          UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city.

          by jncca on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:31:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Electorally Yes (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ehstronghold, gabjoh, anshmishra, USA629

          Policy-wise, no. Its hard to overstate the extent to which Cameron is loathed by Tory activists. You can't mention his name at meetings in large parts of the country without heckling or boos. Many see a Labour government in 2015 not as something to fear, but as a way of eliminating Cameron and his circle. The idea is that following the defeat the Right will take over the Tories, and eliminate UKIP by co-opting its policies. Then the new Tony Abbott-esque Tories will defeat Labour in 2020.

          Hard to say if that will happen. But it is highly likely that in 2020 the Tories will be in a policy sense almost indistinguishable from UKIP which will see its support collapse having served its purpose.

          •  hmm (0+ / 0-)

            That sounds like a recipe for a result like this.

            SSP poster. 45, CA-6, -0.25/-3.90

            by sacman701 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:26:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Who is orange - Lib Dem ? NT (0+ / 0-)

              Acting Assistant Vice Chair of the DKE international cheer squad

              by CF of Aus on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:41:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Hehehe (0+ / 0-)

              I sure hope so. That'd be delicious...

              "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

              by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:49:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  A Decade Ago Maybe (0+ / 0-)

              But the whole trend globally is towards Cesareanism in Parliamentary systems, whether it be Harper in Canada, Abbott in Australia, Erdogan in Turkey, Merkel in Germany. Cameron never fit that bill, nor does Miliband.

              A Tory party losing 4-5% in the center, but picking up 9-11% from UKIP and 2-3% from unhappiness with Labour would be in strong shape.

              •  Cesareanism? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                What exactly is that?

                08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

                by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:19:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think he's trying to coin a term (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  anshmishra, BenjaminDisraeli

                  for the cult of personality that seems to be afflicting many western democracies.

                  Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

                  by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:21:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY

                    We are at a point where people tend to distrust parties, because the problems facing most democracies are greater than the leadership of established parties are willing to deal with, or the voters will allow them to deal with. As a consequence the most successful politicians are those who create a personal connection with the voters, and effectively promise to "protect" them against the establishment, the political class, the elite, minorities, whoever.

                    This is generally a phenomena on the Right in the West; see Germany, Canada, Australia, Hungary, even Turkey and Egypt now. But in a lot a of ways it has similar dynamics and origins imo to the Chavista current in Latin America. In both cases people are not voting on a policy-by-policy basis, but rather on who they trust to make decisions that are too complicated/difficult for them, and to protect them from the enemies who seem to be circling.

                    Chris Christie was clearly positioning himself as the American version Pre-Bridgegate. "Don't vote for me because of my position on taxes, education, abortion, etc, but because I will take care of you and punch the bad people in the face."

                    Cameron's utter lack of that dynamic is proving fatal for him, since the result is that he neither has the policy-positions nor the personality to reassure people he is on top of things. I also think Obama suffers from it. While Obama would have been the perfect President for the early 2000s or late 1990s, he comes across as too calm and collected, and too unconcerned, to be President in a time when everyone is panicked about the Visigoths at the gates.

                  •  and used it without explanation (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY

                    hoping someone would ask him to explain.

                    We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

                    by James Allen on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 07:08:25 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  The risk in this strategy (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tayya, anshmishra

            is that you could have Labour in power for 15 years if things go well for them.  

            Of course, even that may be worth it for the right-wing Tories and UKIP, look what happened in Canada.  The split in the Progressive Conservatives put the center-left in power for 13 years.  But when the right came back into power, it was far to the right of even the right-wing of the PC in the early 1990s.

            If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

            by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:39:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  There won't be a split (0+ / 0-)

              In order for there split there would need to be a division among Conservative voters. There really isn't. Much like Rudd in Australia, Cameron was brought in for one reason - to win a majority. He failed in that, and therefore there is no reason to keep him. The difference is that he has no real grassroots support.

              As a consequence there won't be a centrist splinter party, nor will UKIP remain relevant. UKIP voters are Tories who are anti-Cameron, and 90% will come back when he is gone.

    •  he's doing better as UKIP than he did as a Tory? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      okiedem, anshmishra

      We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

      by James Allen on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 06:21:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So Tories are losing ground? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, anshmishra

      Think Labour could make a comeback?

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 08:15:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do they poll people's opinions on the Tory gov't? (0+ / 0-)

      Is there a chance of a flip in the chambers?

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:28:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Does anyone read alternatehistory.com here? (4+ / 0-)

    It looks like one of the best active timelines was plagiarized. It's pretty unfortunate because this is one of the most entertaining things I've read in quite some time. I guess you just never know...

    http://www.alternatehistory.com/...

    28, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

    by okiedem on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 06:58:06 PM PDT

    •  nope (0+ / 0-)

      I have law school, my girlfriend, DKE and some games and I barely have time for all of that at times.

      We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

      by James Allen on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 07:17:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I feel you (0+ / 0-)

        I disappear for days and weeks at a time here when work gets particularly busy. It's nice to have a couple of other low-commitment places to go (I very rarely comment anywhere else) but DKE is also the only community I'm actively engaged in.

        28, originally OK-1, currently NY-10. Former swingnut.

        by okiedem on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 07:25:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm still in the job hunt. (0+ / 0-)

        “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

        by KingofSpades on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 09:19:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  How do you plagiarize alternative history? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChadmanFL

      It seems like writing it requires considerable original thought.

      If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

      by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:41:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Jindal oh Jindal (9+ / 0-)
    We still place far too much emphasis on our ‘separateness,’ our heritage, ethnic background, skin color, etc. We live in the age of hyphenated Americans: Asian-Americans, Italian-Americans, African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Indian-Americans, and Native Americans, to name just a few. Here’s an idea: How about just ‘Americans?’ That has a nice ring to it, if you ask me.
    The article pretty much says it best: http://www.addictinginfo.org/...

    "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

    by ArkDem14 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 07:30:12 PM PDT

    •  Heh-heh, Woodrow Wilson called, Bobby (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, MichaelNY, bythesea

      and he wants his rhetoric back.

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 08:16:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wilson? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm rather confused. Did he say something similar to this? (I hope not...)

        "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

        by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:52:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Woodrow Wilson was one of the most vicious (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          USA629, DCCyclone, skibum59

          racists to grace(?) the office of President in the post-Civil War period.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:04:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This isn't exactly true (0+ / 0-)

            08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

            by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:18:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  How so? (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY, jncca, skibum59

              I get that all the Presidents in that period were quite racist.  But Wilson's held strong Jim Crow style Deep South views which were pretty bad even under that standard.

              If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

              by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:30:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  He segregated the White House (7+ / 0-)

              and endorsed Birth of a Nation as "all so terribly true." During a time when lynchings were occurring frequently, he never lifted a finger to try to prevent them.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:40:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  He also effectively segregated the federal gov't (7+ / 0-)
                He dismissed 15 out of 17 black supervisors who had been previously appointed to federal jobs and replaced them with whites. He also refused to appoint black ambassadors to Haiti and Santa Domingo, posts traditionally awarded to African Americans. Two of Wilson's cabinet ministers, Postmaster General Albert Burelson and Treasury Secretary William McAdoo, both Southerners, issued orders
                segregating their departments. Throughout the country, blacks were segregated or dismissed from federal positions.
                http://www.pbs.org/...

                I might add that the fear of "another Wilson" was why blacks overwhelmingly stuck with Herbert Hoover in 1932.  It was only after four years of the New Deal that blacks shifted their political allegiances (giving FDR 75% of the votes).  

                If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

                by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:58:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  He also directed the military to hire more (4+ / 0-)

                African American service members than ever before, forced them to be paid them the same as whites after controlling for experience, and had many educated blacks who supported him vehemently, such as Du Bois. He vehemently hated the Ku Klux Klan, and wrote frequently of them as a thuggish intimidator law breaking group.

                Structurally, the impact of Wilson's presidency ushered in the first great migration, without which an African American middle class would have never been created. Without an African American middle class, there would have never been a strong civil rights movement.

                Yes, Wilson would not be considered racially egalitarian by today's standards. He was certainly racist himself. However, his legacy is much more nuanced than many here have cared to discuss, and there were definitely policy and political seeds given birth (albeit probably not purposefully) within his administration without which the civil rights movement would have never come to pass so early or so powerfully.

                08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

                by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:13:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  If he vehemently hated the KKK (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DCCyclone

                  then why did he like Birth of a Nation so much, when it treats the KKK as heroes?

                  Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                  by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:19:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That's actually not true at all (5+ / 0-)

                    Most historians argue that the quote attributed to him was false, and that it was a lie perpetrated by the director of the film for publicity. It was screened in the White House, but as noted Wilson historian Arthur Link notes: "the President was entirely unaware of the nature of the play before it was presented and at no time has expressed his approbation of it."

                    08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

                    by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:25:49 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  The Great migration happened because (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MetroGnome, MichaelNY, jncca

                  of World War I.  

                  Crediting Wilson for the Great migration is like crediting GWB for election the first black President (by doing such a bad job in his second term that the country elected the candidate who represented the greatest change from him.)

                  If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

                  by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:22:46 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Good thread on the matter (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                USA629, MichaelNY, benamery21

                http://boards.straightdope.com/...

                Read up everyone, lots of good info.

                33/D/M/NY-01/SSP&RRH: Tekzilla

                by Socks The Cat on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:45:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  It's absolutely true (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY, USA629

              Wilson was a true racist.

              •  Perhaps personally, and by today's standards (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Setsuna Mudo, anshmishra

                But that does not make him the most vicious racist to ever have been president, not even by today's standards let alone judged against the standards of the time that each president served. That statement is just absurdist.

                08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

                by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:51:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No-one posted that (0+ / 0-)

                  I said he was "one of the most vicious racists" to be president since the Civil War.

                  Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                  by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:01:54 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Even excluding those before the civil war (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    anshmishra, ArkDem14, Setsuna Mudo

                    He is not the most vicious racist to have been president, and probably not even in the top five or ten.

                    08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

                    by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:13:43 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Who are the five to ten Presidents (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      MichaelNY

                      in the post Civil War era who were more vicious racists than Wilson?
                      Even accounting for the effect of the time period, I struggle to find many Presidents who fit that criteria.

                      Maybe Andrew Johnson.  I don't think even Grover Cleveland, Truman, Eisenhower (both Truman and Eisenhower were somewhat racist personally, even while they advanced civil rights), Nixon, or Reagan were in the same category (accounting for the time period).

                      Justice Thurgood Marshall, when attacking Ronald Reagan on civil rights, compared Reagan to Woodrow Wilson in describing his atrocious civil rights policies.

                      If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

                      by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:19:04 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  I was aware of his racism (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Setsuna Mudo

            I was just wondering if he'd said anything to this effect before.

            Well whatever. Whether he was racist or not, Wilsonian internationalism is my bread and butter.

            "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

            by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:31:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We could discuss this more in an issues thread (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              USA629

              But I think his concept of ethnic-based self-determination has been very problematic.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:41:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  As opposed to ethnic based self-determination (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jncca, anshmishra, ArkDem14

                that liberals espouse throughout the world today?

                A few really great examples:

                • A Kurdish state, free and independent of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Big liberal priority here.
                • A two state solution for Palestine. Yep, checks the box of ethnic self-determination.
                • Ukraine as a single nation state. Again, ethnic determination.
                • Peaceful resolution in the Balkans (this includes the current Kosovo conflict) and other similar places such as Rwanda where ethnic self-determination places a major role. Yep, big liberal priority.

                08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

                by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:16:51 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't distinguish who is espousing the concept (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ProudNewEnglander

                  I find it problematic for several reasons. Do you really want me to detail them in this thread? It seems more an issues thread topic.

                  Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                  by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:21:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's an open thread, so I think we're fine (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    jncca, Setsuna Mudo, anshmishra

                    I would just note that when ethnic groups are not allowed some form of self-determination, there is inevitably genocide, repression, or some other form of majority overreach. What's worse? Letting a bunch of people be able to control their own destiny, or forcing them to remain a part of a nation that hates them and wants to kill them...

                    08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

                    by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:28:02 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  OK, so here are some problems (3+ / 0-)

                      The idea of German self-determination was one of the bases of Nazi expansionism into areas with large ethnic German populations like the Sudetenland, areas of Poland and Yugoslavia, and of course there was the question of a border area like Alsace. Lots of countries have border areas in which there are either the same minority on both sides or many members of the dominant ethnic group from the neighboring country. There are really too many examples to mention, but one hot spot lately, based on such "self-determination" logic is Western Ukraine, whose conflict is probably mostly just a land grab and effort at destabilizing Ukraine by Russia. Some other examples are the Malays in Southern Thailand and Sulu (Philippines).

                      In addition to these problems, there is the issue that overemphasizing ethnicity as a basis for nationhood tends to promote the exclusion of minorities as real [insert name of country's citizens here], which can promote, rather than discourage discrimination, expulsions, and genocide. Look at Rwanda: The Hutu are the majority. For a long time, they were denied self-determination, as the ruling class was Tutsi. Were the results of self-determination good there? What about Yugoslavia? Would it have been worse for it to have remained a single country than to have divided up on ethnic lines? I think so.

                      Perhaps it could be argued that Wilson's racism influenced his support for ethnic-based self-determination, rather than the idea of nations based on something other than the dominance of one race (in his case, the white race) over another. The US does best when thought of a country based on a common set of values enunciated in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, not as a country based on self-determination of the White Race. France can be thought of as based on some concept of French ethnicity or shared French culture, but also on the values of the French Revolution and Declaration of the Rights of Man, and there has been tension between those two notions of what French nationality should really mean.

                      Another problem is that self-determination can be taken to an absurd degree. Should the Kurds have their own country? Sure. But what about tiny areas that would be unviable as separate countries? Self-determination is an ideal that does not take practicality into account at all, to my understanding.

                      Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                      by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:55:54 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  that's true of all ideals. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        anshmishra, jncca

                        and all taken to their logical endpoints create problems.

                        We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

                        by James Allen on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:04:11 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  But these are events that actually happened (0+ / 0-)

                          And why should ethnicity be favored over any other basis for nationhood? Ethnic-based nationalism has proven to be dangerous in many, many cases. Was it really wise in the first place to partition India and Palestine?

                          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                          by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:05:58 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  what else could be the basis? (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            anshmishra, ArkDem14, jncca

                            we're one of the only nations in the world where the definition of being a demonym isn't based on ethnicity and culture. There appears to be much stronger opposition to integration in many other countries like those in Europe, and Japan, than here.

                            We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

                            by James Allen on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:23:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Which is a big problem (0+ / 0-)

                            It's a good question what should be the basis, but before 1914, there were multinational empires. There were a lot of positive things about the Ottoman and - I grudgingly admit, given their record of anti-Semitism - Austrian Empires. It's quite unclear that those empires' division into a series of small nation states was an unadulterated good, even if we don't consider that it took a war of almost unfathomable savagery to attain it.

                            Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                            by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:37:23 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  To clarify about Yugoslavia (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        ProudNewEnglander, Swamp Cat

                        I think it would have been a heck of a lot better for it to have remained together than to have divided on ethnic lines.

                        Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                        by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:07:18 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  How though? (0+ / 0-)

                          I think it would've been better if the modern German nation-state hadn't been founded by wars with neighbors. The breakup of Yugoslavia, like that of the USSR, was inevitable following the fall of the Communist Party (or whatever it was called in Yugoslavia). And, for that matter, I think Croatia and Slovenia are much better off for it.

                          Bosnia got screwed over, but, to be blunt, nothing's perfect.

                          "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

                          by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:29:43 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  The breakup of Yugoslavia (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            MichaelNY

                            wasn't really inevitable. It was contigent on some very specific events. Milosevic's populist pandering to the Serbian right in order to maintain his political power was not the only path he could have chosen. It's also often underestimated just how much the radicalism of Croatian nationalist and populist Franjo Tudman radicalized Serbs in response (one aspect of the aftermath of the war was that a media and popular narrative emerged and was even fanned by the Criminal proceedings that shoved far too much of the blame and criminal negilience on Serbs and Serbs alone, when all sides had committed attrocities) to his push for Croatia's independence. Hell, Tudman and his nationalists openly coopted symbols and regalia from Croatia's Nazi puppet government and were pretty close to being full blown atavists of 1930s facism themselves.

                            The Balkans Civil war is an extremely complicated subject, underlined by economic downtown and poor political choices and responses to said economic scarcity and the death of the communal ideology (and Josef Tito's death in 1980) that held the careful balance of the fragmented region together under what was, for a time, a highly successful multi-ethnic civic entity

                            . The Soviet Union wasn't a major part in that, because Tito had long had antagonistic relations and created closer ties to the West, and successfully maintained his own personal independence and a high degree of autonomy in Yugoslavian politics.

                            "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

                            by ArkDem14 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:44:06 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Tudjman was named as head war criminal again (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ArkDem14, anshmishra, MichaelNY

                            in May 2013 as part of the ICTY conviction of 6 Croats.  

                            Tudjman was a personal friend of Tito's which didn't keep him from being imprisoned for a few months for nationalist chauvinism in the 70's (he was released via the intervention of Tito).

                            Tito managed to keep 12 ethnic nationalities on generally friendly terms for many years, but didn't manage to set things up so that would last after his death in 1980.  Another generation would probably have done it, but the deterioration of the country in the 80's left them ripe to fall apart when Communists lost face after the Soviets failed.  

                            Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

                            by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 05:04:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes, that was a start. (0+ / 0-)

                            "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

                            by ArkDem14 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 05:37:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yep (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            benamery21, ArkDem14

                            And the thing that precipitated the breakup of Yugoslavia was that Franjo Tudjmann should have taken over the presidency of Yugoslavia after Milosevic, according to the Yugoslav Constitution, but Milosevic refused to allow him to do so.

                            Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                            by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:39:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Stipe Mesic (who was a Tudjman ally) (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            MichaelNY, ArkDem14

                            http://www.nytimes.com/...

                            It was done by vote, which had been pro forma, in the past, but did occur under the rules.

                            And it was probably because Tudjman had recalled the Croatian Stipe Suvar in order to replace him with Stipe Mesic, which was also fairly unprecedented.

                            There is a lot of blame to go around, almost all of which falls on Serb and Croat leaders, although there are bits and pieces of blame for some of the other 4 republics and 2 autonomous provinces as well.

                            P.S. My sister-in-law is Bosnian-American, and I have friends who are Serb and Croat.  We don't talk about it.

                            Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

                            by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:01:04 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's quite understandable why you don't talk (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            benamery21

                            about it. Thanks for the additional details.

                            Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                            by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:16:01 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  How I see it (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        jncca, Stephen Schmitz

                        What allowed the United States to even arise as a nation in the first place was the relative homogeneity of a nation of mostly British colonists. Our status as the melting pot of the world arose after that occurrence.

                        And I like to look at India as another example here. Following Indian independence in 1947, there were about 500 princely states that all spoke different languages and had different cultures inside of them in addition to several existing provinces. India was a federal republic, and thus had to create fairly autonomous, same language speaking states able to come together as one nation.

                        The primary reason why ethnic self-determination is clearly necessary in the Middle East, but not anywhere near as much in the United States is because of our ability to assimilate, and our (as you mentioned) idealistic and civically religious nationalism, as opposed to ethnic nationalism.

                        Looking at the European Union, it's a collection of states that were not only once at war with each other, but were once parts of one another. The relative success of Europe's march to federalism (which I eagerly anticipate). If one of the nations was like, say, Austria-Hungary or Yugoslavia, an awkward and contentious collection of little states, do you think any proto-nationalistic endeavours would succeed?

                        Like all ideologies, Wilsonian internationalism with regards to self-determination can't be applied everywhere in the same manner. Practicality has to be taken into account all on its own. It's why the President's foreign policy has been attacked as directionless. He's taking the radical new step of not painting a complex world with the same brush. Homogeneity is essential in some places for a functioning state to even arise, and a functioning state is key to eventual social liberalization and acceptance of minorities.

                        My own connection to Wilsonian internationalism is the emphasis on the necessity for foreign intervention by the powerful, liberal nations. Not the blind, Iraq War style internationalism, but the thoughtful, '98 Kosovo style intervention.

                        And, as an ardent believer in globalism, I recognize that eventually, for an international human governing body to form, nation states have to be somewhat homogenous, be it ideologically, culturally, or ethnically. For the purpose of stability. It's a baby step.

                        "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

                        by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:27:21 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I think you should clarify your position further (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Swamp Cat

                          Because the risk in saying that nation states have to be somewhat homogeneous is that it could be interpreted as supporting Israeli Jews who want to throw Israeli Arabs out of the country, Bulgarians who wanted to either expel Bulgarian Turks or force them to do things like changing their names to Bulgarian ones. From my reading of your post, you don't favor these kinds of actions.

                          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                          by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:43:09 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  It's really a matter of situation (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            MichaelNY

                            In certain nations, like Iraq, the split between Sunni and Shia makes a viable nation untenable without a strongman or military dominance. Since the borders of the modern Arab world were half-assed by random British and French staffers, this seems to have been an almost inevitable, albeit delayed, effect of a region grown to maturity in Soviet sponsored anti-Westernism.

                            Israeli Jews and Bulgarian radicals who want total ethnic homogeneity are a relative and criticized minority amongst their own nations.

                            Well, Israel is a total mess politically now, all bets are off for what goes down in the region there, but Bulgarian ethnic homogeneity isn't a broad consensus position at all (I presume).

                            One of the main reasons I'm attracted to the ethnic self-determination ideas of Wilsonian internationalism is the disaster that I've seen occur in the Middle East, particularly Iraq, during my lifetime.

                            I don't believe that ethnic homogeneity is at all fundamental to the modern, nation-state. And I'd like for that to not be a necessary consideration at all.

                            Ethnic nationalism is poisonous to me as a globalist, unfortunately I feel like I have to recognize that, as the neocons learned to their detriment, they couldn't spread liberal democracy in nations unprepared for it.

                            Likewise, socially liberal policies, the welfare state, and many other progressive ideas rest on a nation with a strong, yet accountable government.

                            Sorry if I sound conflicting, but I don't really have a big unifying view of this all. Some states are progressive enough to be unified by liberally democratic ideals, and other states need more cultural ties.

                            "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

                            by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 11:12:47 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The events I refer to in Bulgaria already happened (0+ / 0-)

                            I'd just like to point that out.

                            Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                            by MichaelNY on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 12:01:16 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  Ethnic self-determination comes out of (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MichaelNY

                  questionable, racist evolutionary theories though, and is thus quite naturally compatible with the kind of racism Wilson espoused. One could argue such views have tainted the popular understanding of multiculturalism and even allowed a leftist sentiment that helps disguise the difficulties of difference, and the structural vagaries of racism and ethnicity around the world.

                  "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

                  by ArkDem14 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:32:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  This (18+ / 0-)

      This is kind of a standard line you still here out of many non-political, not-particularly-conservative white Americans.  It actually sounds inoffensive enough that people don't feel embarrassed saying it or believing it.  Of course, it completely ignores the reality that history has legacies, and that the concept of "color-blindness" is actually an excuse and justification to pretend that that isn't the truth.

      Most minorities notice this kind of argument for what it ultimately means, which is basically "stop whining" and "that was in the past and has no relevance for today."  But, I can also see how entire swaths of this country don't get the ultimate implication of this kind of rhetoric and ideology.  It's all a part of the myth of Personal Responsibility and upward mobility in this country, whereby everyone that has anything earned it on their own, and it has absolutely nothing to do with cultural privilege, and everyone that doesn't simply hasn't worked hard enough and has not been disadvantaged by any sort of history, and certainly nothing institutionalized.

      No More Mikes: Eric Schertzing for Congress (MI-08)

      by MetroGnome on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 08:59:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Default equals white (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY, Skaje, James Allen, DCCyclone

        Particularly in most places it equals white, protestant Anglo. When they talk about shit like this, it always entails a willful ignorance to this default status and the dreadfully homogenizing nature of such a totalizing conformity.

        "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

        by ArkDem14 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:08:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Politically it sounds really good (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY, MetroGnome

        It was the sentiment behind the most memorable line from a historic speech by a promising politician ten years ago at a Democratic convention.

        But what Jindal did here was to take that line which was intended to bring the country together three years after 9/11, and twisted it to blame minorities for not accepting blatant discrimination against them.

        If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

        by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:23:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  it's not because of non-whites that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY, DCCyclone

      they're regarded as separate.

      We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

      by James Allen on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 09:14:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Anyone still think he's going for any vote (5+ / 0-)

      but the SoCons?

      21, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
      politicohen.com
      Idiosyncratic, pro-establishment. Liberal, not progressive. For the poor, the children, the planet, and the rule of law.
      UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city.

      by jncca on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 10:34:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well I think his strategy is to win SoCons (4+ / 0-)

        and then use that with his policy wonkishness to win over enough establishment donors to make him a serious candidate.

        Given the dearth of quality GOP candidates (especially if Wisconsin boots Scott Walker), I wouldn't entirely rule him out.  

         

        If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

        by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:26:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It seems hard to imagine someone (5+ / 0-)

          so unpopular in a home state that he will have so recently been governor of, and which so strongly favors his party in presidential elections, winning a presidential primary. Has that happened before?

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:42:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It almost happened in 1975-1976 (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY, anshmishra

            Ronald Reagan was unpopular in California when he left office in 1974.
            I don't know how popular he was in California in 1979.

            If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

            by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:50:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  California wasn't red, though (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY, bythesea, anshmishra, skibum59

              It was purple at the time but never truly conservative.  Louisiana is conservative and red and they still dislike Jindal.

              21, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
              politicohen.com
              Idiosyncratic, pro-establishment. Liberal, not progressive. For the poor, the children, the planet, and the rule of law.
              UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city.

              by jncca on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:58:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Ugh (12+ / 0-)

      Such is the price of being a minority in the GOP, believing this shit.  According to them, minorities just need to forget their identities, just be "American", and their problems will go away (as if White America will ever let them forget they are not white...)

      I agree with everything MetroGnome said above.

    •  Funny coming from a guy who uses a nickname (4+ / 0-)

      Probably because he fears his using his real name Piyush would hurt him at the ballot box.

    •  Jindal is trying too hard (10+ / 0-)

      Which is probably going to be the judgement on his entire career, or would be if he were to rise much higher than he has now. Had Jindal focused on the enormous intellectual promise he had to be technocratic governor of the type Louisiana could well have benefited from, he would actually be quite well placed for 2016 or later. That approach is in no way fatal; Mitch Daniels was viewed quite well for following exactly that path.

      Instead Jindal has spent so much time sucking up to the hardcore of the party base that he has all the liabilities and few of the strengths of a genuine evengelical southern candidate, yet he has alienated everyone else.

      •  Jindal had a truly sterling academic record (9+ / 0-)

        Truly sterling. But he's a lousy politician. And to be frank, he has a mediocre record as a technocratic manager for the many different agencies he ran in Louisiana, while his tenure as governor has been marred, particularly in the second term, by his pandering and draconian fiscal cuts to essential parts of the state's competitive infrastructure, like the university system and the state hospital system which have infuriated a broad range of people that doesn't break down along simple left-right terms. Louisiana isn't a left-right state, it's a government/anti-government state.

        "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

        by ArkDem14 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:15:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Sterling academic record" is meaningless (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY, Zack from the SFV

          You can fill a lot of football stadiums with people who can claim sterling academic records.

          Political and policy leadership and accomplishment are very different from intellectual achievement.

          Jindal is a wannabe showclown.  Which is to say, he's not even good at it with his target audience, like Ted Cruz is.

          I agree with BenjaminDisraeli that "trying too hard" is a good description of Jindal's failure.

          But then, I don't think there's anything he can do differently anyway.  You are who you are, and either that appeals broadly enough to establish a credible path to national office, or it doesn't.  In Jindal's case, it doesn't.  He just isn't good enough.

          46, male, Indian-American, and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

          by DCCyclone on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:00:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He's also shoved around the (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Skaje, DCCyclone, sacman701

            legislature for too long, and actually has had some pretty cavalier ethics for a politician who ran as a reformer. Case in point, a few years ago he came under fire for the way companies in negoiations with the state government for contracts or economic development grants would donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Supriya Jindal foundation, which his wife Supriya would then use to go around to various school districts and have a media day replete with big checks and the Jindal name tossed about everywhere.

            Jindal seems highly intelligent. At least he worked hard and had a great mind as a student. He got a double major from Brown University at age 20, accepted to both Harvard Medical School and Yale Law. Went to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar. But he received ridiculously high level appointments that he was ridiculously unqualified for and received them on a highly ideological basis (he was seen as a rising star in Republican circles). Such as when he was put in charge of the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals, an agency responsible for thousands of employees and hundreds of millions of dollars, at age 24, two years out of Grad school. At age 28 he was put in charge of the Public University system. In both he was a master at manipulating budgets, instituting various cuts to services to call "reform" and tackle deficits, which later led to declines in Louisiana's standing in both fronts.

            I should say Jindal must have a great memory and a incisive ability to understand what he needed to do to get good grades, and an exceptional work ethic. He's just unintellectual insofar as he is so insular and partisan and has been for a long time, and his naked ambition overrides whatever good governance impulses he has.

            "Once, many, many years ago I thought I was wrong. Of course it turned out I had been right all along. But I was wrong to have thought I was wrong." -John Foster Dulles. My Political Compass Score: -4.00, -3.69, Proud member of DKE

            by ArkDem14 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:55:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I realize that it is a dog whistle (5+ / 0-)

      But to the average American it doesn't sound that much different than this below.  So I doubt there is much traction to be gotten from it.

      Yet even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America there's the United States of America. There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.
      http://obamaspeeches.com/...

      If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

      by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:46:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Still a phenomenal speech by any measure /nt (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        USA629, MichaelNY, ChadmanFL, DCCyclone, askew

        "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

        by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:33:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh I agree (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY, DCCyclone

          That speech was the big reason why he went from state senator to President in a matter of 4 years.  And the line above was the most memorable line from the entire speech.  People who remember Obama from back then remember him because of that line.

          Personally, I think Jindal tried to lift this line and put his own spin on it here.  

          If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

          by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:38:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  From State Senator to President in 4 years (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            What recent President has had a rise so meteoric? I guess Carter, but Carter's rise doesn't hold a candle to the movement that Obama cultivated.

            "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

            by anshmishra on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:32:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Someone on the previous open thread mentioned (6+ / 0-)

    following the elections in November on Twitter. I went ahead and made an account from this, so now I'm wondering what accounts are definite follows.

    My current list is: DKElections and the staff members (great work guys!), Steven Wolf, DCCyclone, Taniel, Steve Singiser, PPP, Nate Cohn, Nate Silver, Dave Wasserman, Sabato, Xenocrypt, Abby Livingston, Emily Cahn, Kyle Trygstad, and Sam Wang. What other accounts should I be following for the best feed?

  •  Race Ratings (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Freego10, Jacob1145, USA629

    Ranked from most likely Republican win to most likely Democratic win.

    Senate:

    Montana - Safe R
    South Dakota - Safe R
    West Virginia - Likely R
    Kansas - Likely R
    Kentucky - Lean R
    Georgia - Lean R
    Louisiana - Lean R*
    Arkansas - Tilt R

    Alaska - Pure Toss Up

    North Carolina - Tilt D
    Iowa - Tilt D
    Colorado - Tilt D
    Michigan - Lean D
    Minnesota - Likely D
    New Hampshire - Likely D

    Governor:

    Nebraska - Likely R
    Arizona - Likely R
    South Carolina - Likely R
    Georgia - Lean R
    Michigan - Lean R
    Arkansas - Tilt R
    Illinois - Tilt R
    Wisconsin - Tilt R

    Florida - Pure Toss Up

    Kansas - Tilt D
    Connecticut - Tilt D
    Hawaii - Tilt D
    Colorado - Lean D
    Maine - Lean D
    Massachusetts - Likely D
    Pennsylvania - Safe D

    LA-Sen is really hard for me to prognosticate, because of the runoff, which Mary Landrieu will certainly face.  If Dems end up with a clear majority on election night (50 seats), I think big oil will go in HUGE for Landrieu, and that would really help her.  If Republicans face a clear majority (51 seats), Landrieu would still have a fighting chance but wouldn't receive as much help from big oil.  But if her seat is the one that decides the majority, I think she would have an extremely difficult time convincing conservative Louisiana voters to vote for her.

  •  Sen (0+ / 0-)

    So many things wrong with above sen predictions it will take another day to rip them to shreds

  •  Anchorage paper is reporting Mallott, Walker... (26+ / 0-)

    May join together and run as one ticket, dropping their lieutenant gubernatorial candidates (poor Hollis French, who is giving up his Senate seat to run) in the process. Mallott, the Democrat, would be the LG candidate, while Walker would likely have to drop his Republican Party registration (a formality, considering he is running as an independent). Story here.

    This would be an absolute game-changer and would be very bad news for unpopular Gov. Sean Parnell.

    Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

    by SaoMagnifico on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 11:08:11 PM PDT

    •  Also a tidbit in there... (15+ / 0-)

      From Sen. Mark Begich's brother saying the senator feels more confident in his reelection chances than he was at the start of the year. For what it's worth.

      Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

      by SaoMagnifico on Sun Aug 31, 2014 at 11:09:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  holy shit (7+ / 0-)

      I can't believe something like this is even possible after primary day.  I really hope it happens.

    •  Well this is interesting (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jacob1145, anshmishra, MichaelNY

      How conservative is Walker? I know party labels are seen pretty differently up there, but I'm curious if a Walker win would be a victory for our side.

      •  I saw him characterised (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        as "moderate Republican" in some articles, so, probably, he is not so different from Orman in Kansas... But that's only an "educated guess"..

        Very Independent minded. Moderate. Extremely cynical (main principle: don't easily believe anyone, but himself).

        by Ragmod on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:20:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He's a social conservative (13+ / 0-)

        but pledging in so many words not to pursue that agenda.  

        "Walker said he personally opposes abortions, but in a recent interview he pledged that under his watch, he would not allow new restrictions even if it meant vetoing anti-abortion legislation.

        “It comes up a lot and I answer it the same way every time,” Walker said. “Yes, I am a social conservative. I’m not running on those issues at all. Where it is when I come in, is where it will be when I come out.”'

        He's pledged to expand Medicaid on Day 1.  He supports raising the minimum wage.  He's pro-oil/gas but not pro-oil company.  He does not support increased liberalization of AK's marijuana laws, but pledges to abide by the decision of the voters in Nov.  

        Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

        by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:58:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks! (3+ / 0-)

          I'd support him as the best we can get in Alaska. If he's honest about social issues, he could end up being a fine governor. And I can't really imagine social issues playing too well in Alaska anyway.

          •  There's a pretty strong (3+ / 0-)

            evangelical strain in parts of AK but it's not dominant, yet.

            I see Walker as an Alaskan populist.  Alaska has real existential issues to deal with, and having somebody in office who isn't knee-jerk corporate would be a good thing.

            Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

            by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:15:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  His views on social issues are really crappy (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY

          especially given that Alaska is a culturally libertarian state.  I mean Mitt Romney said the same thing on social issues; he promptly vetoed multiple EC bills.

          “It comes up a lot and I answer it the same way every time,” Walker said. “Yes, I am a social conservative. I’m not running on those issues at all. Where it is when I come in, is where it will be when I come out.”'
          The other question is whether having Walker as the primary opponent would help or hurt Begich.  

          If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

          by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:14:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Apparently the Begich family are onboard (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            anshmishra, USA629

            EC=emergency contraception, if I've puzzled it out correctly.

            I'm sure he wouldn't be my first choice, but I think he's likely much better than Parnell.

            Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

            by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:00:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think Walker is a culture warrior (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jncca, MichaelNY

            His primary motivation for getting in the race, he said, was oil and gas issues -- which is the same thing he campaigned on in 2010. He lines up very well with Democrats and moderate Republicans (Gary Stevens, Bert Stedman, Paul Seaton, etc.) on those issues.

            Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

            by SaoMagnifico on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:01:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  He wants a state-owned E&P company (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY

              to take leverage away from the oil companies in gaining policy concessions from the state.

              Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

              by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:27:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's pretty big (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                A conservative wanting to, in effect, nationalize the Alaskan oil industry? My God, if only the national Republicans were this sane.

                •  He also wants to sole source (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MichaelNY, Stephen Schmitz

                  replacement of the state ferries to the shipyards in Ketchikan, and re-institute via negotiation Buy Alaskan sourcing requirements for federal installations in AK, and require oil companies to implement local hiring to keep some of their tax advantages, and reverse the recent increase in tax cuts for oil companies.

                  His attitude with respect to the oil companies is roughly: we aren't going to beg and bribe you, if you won't do it, we will.

                  Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

                  by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 05:25:27 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Dem Party Committee to meet tonight (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      anshmishra

      Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

      by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:32:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How would it be very bad for Parnell? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      I don't know who Walker is.

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:39:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bill Walker ran against Gov. Parnell... (7+ / 0-)

        In the 2010 primary. He didn't do very well, winning about 30% of the vote, but what was interesting was that he campaigned to Parnell's left on most issues. That campaign sort of ended up defining Parnell as a conservative Republican (along the rather broad ideological spectrum that the Alaska GOP encompasses) for his full term in office, as well as consolidated the perception that he is very pro-corporate.

        Last year, Walker announced he would run against Parnell again in the primary, but he changed his mind and decided to run as an independent candidate for governor instead. With both him and Mallott on the ballot, three-way polling has shown Parnell well below 50%, but still winning with a plurality despite being fairly unpopular.

        Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

        by SaoMagnifico on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:50:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Is there a parallel to this anywhere in history? (4+ / 0-)

      I can think of a few instances wherein an independent candidate drops out and endorses the Democratic nominee (like Bud Chiles did in the 2010 Florida gubernatorial election). There are much fewer instances wherein a Democratic nominee drops out to support an independent candidate (had Kendrick Meek done it in the 2010 Senate election in Florida, Charlie Crist would likely be my state's junior Senator right now, and we'd have a more secure majority).

      But an instance where a major party nominee drops out to run as an independent candidate's running mate? I can't think of any. Nor can I think of any where an independent candidate drops out to run as a major party nominee's running mate. Can anyone think of anything like that happening in history?

      20, FL-07. UCF student pursuing a B.A. in Political Science, future teacher/politician. Yes, I'm proudly supporting Charlie Crist! "The Republican vision is clear: I've got mine, the rest of you are on your own." -Elizabeth Warren

      by Tyler Yeargain on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:53:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you really think Crist would have won (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ChadmanFL, MichaelNY, jncca

        in a one-on-one? Rubio got 49% as it was.

        26, Practical Progressive Democratic Socialist (-9.38, -8.51), Gay, IN-02 - Defeat Wacky Jackie!

        by HoosierD42 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:19:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think he stood a good chance (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY, Swamp Cat

          Crist had to deal with both the left and the right flanks. A united Democratic front behind Crist would've been formidable, as I expect it will be this year post-labor day.

        •  Had Meek dropped out... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Swamp Cat

          The Florida Democratic Party would've named Crist as their replacement nominee, meaning that all votes allocated to Meek would've gone to Crist anyhow. Crist's votes and Meek's votes combined would've given Crist a 55,000 edge over Rubio. It would've been close, but I think that it had a solid chance of happening.

          Even if it had been done just the weekend before Election Day, there would've been time for a (very, very limited) concerted effort to get out the vote. It could've been as simple as a few unity rallies across the state and big name Democrats like Bill Clinton coming in as surrogates.

          The problem, I think, would not have been losing Democratic votes (there wasn't that much enthusiasm for Meek as a candidate, because he was an incredibly poor campaigner with a relatively corrupt track record) but instead losing the few conservative independent and Republican votes that Crist was receiving.

          Perhaps I was a little too quick to say "likely" in my original comment, but I think that in a close election, it definitely would have been a significant possibility.

          20, FL-07. UCF student pursuing a B.A. in Political Science, future teacher/politician. Yes, I'm proudly supporting Charlie Crist! "The Republican vision is clear: I've got mine, the rest of you are on your own." -Elizabeth Warren

          by Tyler Yeargain on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:49:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Crist wasn't going to win in 2010 (6+ / 0-)

        Even if Meek dropped out.  It just wasn't going to happen in 2010.

      •  not quite (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY, ChadmanFL

        in 2006 OR-Gov, state senator Ben Westlund (R-Bend area) was running as an Independent and ended up endorsing Kulongoski. Then he switched parties and was elected state treasurer as a Democrat in 2008. Unfortunately he didn't survive his term.

        We no longer ask if a man has integrity, but if he has talent. - Rousseau, Discourse on the arts and sciences

        by James Allen on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:49:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  if it happens (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JacobNC, MichaelNY, Setsuna Mudo

      and they win, i'm sure french will get a job in the administration far better than LG.  unless alaska gives their LG actual power other than a tie breaking vote.

      NH-01. First time living in NH, waiting for the candidates to start a courting.

      by DougTuttle on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:13:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  so go walker (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      not scott, bill! too esoteric for a bumpersticker, but a nice SNL callback.  pepsi!

      NH-01. First time living in NH, waiting for the candidates to start a courting.

      by DougTuttle on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 04:20:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No open elections in Hong Kong (9+ / 0-)

    Can't say it's really a surprise.  After weeks of pro-democracy demonstrations Beijing brought down the hammer.  Only candidates pre-approved by the Central Committee can run for chief executive of Hong Kong.  There wasn't much left in the way of democracy in Hong Kong before, but what little was left now appears dead.

    http://www.cnn.com/...

    It's a decision thousands of protesters feared.

    China's powerful National People's Congress Standing Committee voted Sunday to change the way Hong Kong picks its chief executive, ruling that only candidates approved by a nominating committee will be allowed to run.

    A top Chinese official made clear the candidates all must "love the country and love Hong Kong."

    The city's current leader insists it's a step in the right direction.
    "The majority of Hong Kong citizens, namely, the 5 million qualified voters of the selection of chief executive in 2017, will be able to cast their votes to select the chief executive," said Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying.

    But that's not how Hong Kong's pro-democracy Occupy Central movement sees it. The group has vocally pushed for elections in which any candidate can run for chief executive. For weeks, protesters have taken to the streets.

    In a statement on its website, the group slammed Beijing's decision as a move that stifles democracy and blocks people with different political views from running for office.

    "Genuine universal suffrage includes both the rights to elect and to be elected," the statement said. "The decision of the NPC Standing Committee has deprived people with different political views of the right to run for election and be elected by imposing unreasonable restrictions, thereby perpetuating 'handpicked politics.'"

    •  Not a surprise, but really too bad (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChadmanFL, MichaelNY, Taget, anshmishra

      In the long run, being shackled to China is going to stifle Hong Kong's economic growth -- and thus, its human development.

      Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

      by SaoMagnifico on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:45:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I always thought it was a shame (7+ / 0-)

        Hong Kong couldn't have the option of independence. I knew that was impossible, though.

        Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

        by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:59:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ChadmanFL, anshmishra, MichaelNY

          geographically Hong Kong was always in a bad position for the British to defend it against an invasion against a foreign enemy especially after WW2 when the British were utterly humiliated by the Japanese.

          Plus Deng Xiaoping was the one person Margaret Thatcher couldn't beat. Thatcher beat Labour, Argentina, Arthur Scargill and the mining unions, but she met her match in Xiaoping who made it very clear to her that all of Hong Kong, not just the New Territories was going to be part of China after 1997, either by diplomacy or by military force.

          The Republican party is now an extreme right-wing party that is owned by their billionaire campaign contributors. - Bernie Sanders

          by ehstronghold on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:36:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Singapore too (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            anshmishra, Audrid

            I'm a bit surprised Singapore is a micro state in the region that has managed to avoid being swallowed up by a larger neighbor ever since independence.  It's not all that defensible either.  If you think the Battle of Hong Kong was a disaster for the Brits during WWII look up the Battle of Singapore.  The entire 85,000 man British defense force was killed or captured at a cost of <5,000 Japanese.  Although Singapore does devote a very large % of it's GDP to it's current military expenditures.

            •  Singapore was originally part of Malaysia (6+ / 0-)

              In 1965, Malaysia kicked Singapore out of the federation because it was suspicious of Singapore's ethnic Chinese residents and didn't want Singapore's growing economic clout to dominate the country. Considering Malaysia is Singapore's sole neighbor, it's not surprising that it has remained independent.

              •  Kind of (5+ / 0-)

                Don't forget that Indonesia is also a neighbor and tried hard to destabilize Singapore (and Malaysia) in the 60s. Also, while your version of why Singapore was expelled is quite reasonable, it more specifically had to do with attempts by People's Action Party leader, Lee Kwan Yew, to appeal to voters in Malaysia outside of Singapore, and the real possibility that a PAP-led alternative coalition could upend the UMNO-led coalition and substitute real affirmative action for poor people of all ethnicities ("all races" in a Malaysian context) for Malay privileges that mostly helped a small segment of the Malay population.

                As for the economic strength of Singapore, I haven't ever read that had any role in the expulsion, though I stand to be corrected. Rather, hardly anyone thought Singapore could survive on its own as a tiny country without natural resources of its own, and its brilliant success is a tremendous tribute to the hard work of its people and the in many ways wise leadership of Mr. Lee.

                Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:21:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  The Battle of Singapore (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaoMagnifico, MichaelNY, ehstronghold

              was the largest surrender in British military history.

              If memory serves, Singapore was a much larger disgrace to the British military, because unlike Hong Kong, Singapore had been played up as an impregnable fortress. Additionally, British forces in Singapore way outnumbered the Japanese, but in Hong Kong, it was the opposite.

              Incidentally, Lee Kuan Yew credits it with inspiring him to seek independence for Singapore.

      •  A (6+ / 0-)

        clash between Hong Kong and Mainland China was always inevitable. Chinese in Hong Kong and in Mainland China are like night and day culturally and politically.

        Ironically while people in Hong Kong consider Mainlanders as uncouthed barbarians, Hong Kong's economy continued to prosper after 1997 thanks to the fact rich Mainlanders go to Hong Kong for business. Oh and baby powder.

        The Republican party is now an extreme right-wing party that is owned by their billionaire campaign contributors. - Bernie Sanders

        by ehstronghold on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:24:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Baby Formula (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ehstronghold, MichaelNY

          I followed the link wondering if talcum powder was now also being smuggled.

          I wonder how much of the formula craze is legit worry about dangerous adulteration and how much is cultural craze with brand status.

          Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

          by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:02:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  They go hand in hand (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            When you don't trust your local brands because you worry about dangerous additives, then the brand status of foreign brands goes up. It's not an either-or proposition.

            When several of my stateside relatives went to visit my other relatives in China last year, they took with them luggage upon luggage of baby formula and fish oil. It's not just Hong Kong, but HK is bearing the brunt simply due to proximity.

            24, D, pragmatic progressive (-4.50, -5.18). DC-AL (school), CA-14 (home and voting). DKE folk culture curator.

            by kurykh on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 11:16:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Baby formula is an abomination to begin with (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Zack from the SFV

              Babies should be fed mother's milk unless medically infeasible.

              Yes, pretty much anytime my family visits abroad, they take as little personal wear as necessary and as much luggage as possible to ship items for folks on the other end.  This also allows for bringing stuff back, of course.

              Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

              by benamery21 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 11:26:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Correct me if I'm wrong (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Zack from the SFV

          But my understanding is that there is a lot of cultural similarity between Guangdong province, especially regions very close to Hong Kong like Shenzhen, and Hong Kong.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:23:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  KS-Gov: Davis outraises Brownback (22+ / 0-)

    1.21m to 744k: http://www.bizjournals.com/...

    KWCH News reports the two candidates' reports looked very different. The Davis report, with 259 pages listing donors, showed a greater volume of contributions, though they were smaller on average. Brownback's 94-page list of donors included more than 100 contributors who gave the maximum $2,000.

    (-9.38, -7.49), Blood type "O", libertarian socialist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

    by Setsuna Mudo on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 06:44:54 AM PDT

  •  FL 18: Murphy 54-33 over Domino (21+ / 0-)

    Keith Frederick (for Murphy) polled 400 likely voters: 47% Republican, 36% Democrat, and 17% Independent.

    Frederick poll last October showed Murphy 52% to 25% over Domino.

    And Murphy is campaigning as if he's 20 points down....

  •  MN-Gov: Will Hannah Nicollet (IP) Be A Factor? (5+ / 0-)

    I guess it should be no surprise that a party in a permanent state of identity crisis now appears poised to co-opt the Ron Paul crowd with a more libertarian message.  At least that's the case in the Governor's race as this year's IP emissary Hannah Nicollet even gave a shoutout to her work with the Paul campaign in an interview I recently watched.  The IP's goal this cycle is merely to maintain major-party status by getting at least 5% of the vote, and most people now think that's an uphill fight.  Given that Nicollet will enjoy a public platform in the debates and have equal footing with Dayton and Johnson....combined with the fact that she's doing outreach to Ron Paul's cult....combined with the fact that she's young and attractive....I don't think a 5% showing it at all unlikely for her.  Her situation is similar to James Gibson, the party's 2000 Senate candidate whose support swelled from near nothing to 5.8% after solid debate performances against Dayton and Grams.

    However, if Nicollet is pushing a Ron Paul platform she MIGHT be more inclined to take votes away from Johnson rather than Dayton.  But she also likes to talk a lot about marijuana legalization and that issue could help her poach votes from Dayton.  I will say she doesn't seem ready for primetime based on the interview I saw with her but if she can give a reasonable series of debate performances that raise her profile and hit the intended audience where they live, 5% does not seem to be too high of a hill to climb from the 3% where polls currently show her.

    •  But Carlson, their IP Senate candidate (5+ / 0-)

      is indisputably conservative, I heard.  So that helps Franken a touch.  BTW, did you expect Franken to be favored in 2014 way back when he was first elected in that contentious as heck recount?

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:58:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed....Carlson's Going Nowhere..... (4+ / 0-)

        He'll still get at least the 2-3% showing that Stephen Williams got in the 2012 Senate race though as Minnesotans love their third-party protest votes.

        I'm very surprised that Franken's standing is as good as it is heading into 2014, especially in a defensive cycle.  His strategy of avoiding the class clown role has served him well and the people who couldn't take him seriously in 2008 seem to now.  Last week, the usually vapid Josh Kraushaar at National Journal had a fairly interesting article that highlighted Franken's below-the-radar strategy and that it has some risk if McFadden catches on with the public while Franken's playing it too safe, but that seems like a longshot this cycle, particularly with the kid gloves that McFadden has been punching Franken with thus far.  Back to your original question though, I never figured Franken's standing would be this solid even two years ago let alone five, so he's definitely won over a skeptical crowd.

        •  I've become less pessimistic about this race (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          anshmishra, MichaelNY, Jorge Harris

          I've moved it from Lean D to Likely D.

          I would ignore anything that Josh Kraushaar has to say.  The RNC spokesperson would be more impartial and informative than Josh Kraushaar.

          If you refuse to vote for the Democrat in a Presidential general election, then I hold you personally responsible for any right-wing Supreme Court decision.

          by USA629 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:54:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Carlson has been disowned by the IP (7+ / 0-)

        Real RWNJ.  Perennial candidate who won an extremely low turnout primary because he had the most Minnesotan sounding name. From the little searching I have done  he seems to spend most of his time bashing "the gay agenda". Will probably get a few votes of those who vote 3rd party reflexively without having any idea what they stand for but mostly a non factor.

        Franken is a better politician than I thought he would be. Always thought he would be smart and serious enough but didn't think he would have the needed discipline.

    •  I think all that really matters is... (6+ / 0-)

      ...both Dayton and Franken will exceed 50%.  And that will bring a legitimacy that very few major Minnesota elections have provided the past 20 years or so.  Klobuchar is the only one to really enjoy that.

      And that will be new low point for the Minnesota GOP.  For quite awhile at least they could know even though they couldn't sniff 50%, the Democrats struggled similarly.  Now that's fading.  And to have it fade even against Al Franken, who they hate more than almost any Democratic pol, is deeply humiliating for them.

      46, male, Indian-American, and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

      by DCCyclone on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:45:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Race rankings (12+ / 0-)

    Hi all. I've been taking a break from DKE (I've just been reading the digests and skimming the comments), and after this I will probably be taking another break, as I'm just about to start grad school. But before I'm off to tons of reading, I thought I'd share my (possibly both optimistic and pessimistic at the same time) view of how things are shaking out this year.

    First, Senate:

    Likely D - MN, NH
    Lean D - MI
    Tilt D - CO, IA, NC
    Tossup - AK, AR, LA
    Tilt R - KY
    Lean R - GA
    Likely R - KS, SD
    Safe R pickup - MT, WV

    Shame that KY seems to be slipping away. It really looked like it was going to happen a few months ago. Of the tossups, I think AK is the most likely hold and LA is the least likely. The Tilt D races may only be decided by a 2-3 percent margin but I'm pretty confident Democrats will prevail there.

    Governors:

    Safe D pickup - PA
    Likely D - HI, MN, RI
    Lean D - CO, KS, MA
    Tilt D - ME
    Tossup - CT, FL, MI, WI
    Tilt R - AR, AZ
    Lean R - IL
    Likely R - GA, NE, SC

    FL is the same story as KY-Sen, except I give Crist better odds of winning than Grimes. AR and IL could be swapped, I'm not sure since there's so little decent polling out of either state. It's pretty shocking how quickly the worm has turned for Walker and Snyder, though that could just be because of crap polling earlier in the year.

    House:

    Safe D pickup - CA-31
    Likely D - AZ-01, AZ-09, CA-03, CA-26, FL-18, GA-12, IL-17, MN-07, TX-23
    Lean D - CA-36, MA-06, ME-02, MN-08, NY-11, NY-18
    Tilt D - CA-07, IL-12, NH-01, NY-01
    Tossup - AZ-02, CA-52, CO-06, FL-02, FL-26, IA-03, IL-10, NY-21, VA-10, WV-03
    Tilt R - MI-07, NE-02, NJ-03
    Lean R - AR-02, IL-13, MI-01, NY-23, WV-02
    Likely R - CA-21, MI-08, NV-03, NY-19, OH-14, PA-06, PA-08, WI-06
    Safe R pickup - NC-07, UT-04

    I think the 28 seats between Lean D and Lean R are the only "really" competitive districts, but there are always upsets. I think a minimal net Republican gain, probably around 1-3 seats, is the most likely outcome.

  •  Checked Out Midterm? I Am Right On This? (11+ / 0-)

    It might be hard for DKE regulars who eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff to fully pick up on where the median voter is, but it hit me this weekend how checked out the media is on midterm politics this cycle, and I sense the public is right there with them.  I'm sure this is far less true in Arkansas, North Carolina, Kentucky, and a flurry of mostly smaller states with contested races and a yearlong high-priced media blitz, but even there I can't help but feel the public is pretty disconnected.

    Obviously there are a lot of real news stories taking up the headlines, but it sure seems to me that in previous midterm cycles by this point, the Sunday morning shows spent a lot more time covering the horse races.  Certainly at this point in 2006, when the war in Iraq was at its tactical nadir yet not dominating news headlines in the way that foreign policy struggles are today, midterm elections were all over the airwaves and Tim Russert was just about to start his Meet the Press debate series.  Am I way off here or do we have to go back to 2002, or possibly even 1998, for the most recent midterm that got this slow of a start in terms of motivating the media or voters?

    •  I've been thinking the same thing (5+ / 0-)

      The midterms don't seem to have taken on any particular characteristics yet. There's no narrative for this cycle yet. The 2014 elections can probably still develop in just about any direction. That's why I've held off making ratings and such.

      Something in the campaign season is eventually going to happen that will attract the attention of the media or voters, and whatever that is will probably have a big effect on shaping the narrative of the cycle. Since nothing is going on right now, it doesn't necessarily have to be something big. It makes me kind of nervous.

      Hopefully it will be another Republican gaffe.

      (-9.38, -7.49), Blood type "O", libertarian socialist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

      by Setsuna Mudo on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:18:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  IMHO - the main characteristic of this year (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anshmishra, Midwesterners

        may be anti-incumbency. Despite the fact that few incumbents lost primaries (Hall, Cantor, Bentivolio, Abercrombie - is that all???) - many had close calls (in some cases - very close). Respect of Congress (and many governors - too) is very low. And thus i expect some unusual results in November - in both directions..

        P.S. Of course - this is a pure hypothesis...

        Very Independent minded. Moderate. Extremely cynical (main principle: don't easily believe anyone, but himself).

        by Ragmod on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:38:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What's an example.. (5+ / 0-)

          of an "unusual" result in November that favors our party? Mostly, I've seen that your ratings are very pessimistic on our chances (and, of course, that's fine), but I haven't seen much optimism from you in governor's races. If the election is truly anti-incumbent rather than anti-D or anti-R, then the Senate should flip and we should take quite a few governorships. Do you believe all or most of FL, KS, PA, WI, MI, AZ, NM, AK, GA, SC, and IA will flip? Otherwise, I think you're being inconsistent in your own ratings.

          •   (0+ / 0-)

            FL, KS, PA, WI, MI - quite possible. Others - unlikely. And KS results, for exaample (given how red state it is) would be  very "unusual" for me.

            P.S. I very much prefer to be a pessimist until very end and rejoice after election then vice versa...

            Very Independent minded. Moderate. Extremely cynical (main principle: don't easily believe anyone, but himself).

            by Ragmod on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:50:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  More precise (0+ / 0-)

              AZ, GA, and AK - still possible, but under special circumstances (as recently became likely in Alaska) or scandals (AZ, GA). NM - very unlikely. IA and SC - solid no.

              Very Independent minded. Moderate. Extremely cynical (main principle: don't easily believe anyone, but himself).

              by Ragmod on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 11:38:12 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I think non-waves are un-motivating (6+ / 0-)

      That's the lesson, that if there is less voter and media attention, it's probably because it's a status quo election where nothing much interesting is expected to happen.

      46, male, Indian-American, and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

      by DCCyclone on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:41:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's kind of the reverse way I'd put it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DCCyclone

        Waves are a product of powerful voter sentiment - usually strong opposition to the losing party. Absent such sentiment, presumably (though I can't prove this easily and stand to be corrected), fewer voters will be motivated to vote.

        Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

        by MichaelNY on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:56:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Observation (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY, Midwesterners

      I'm not sure about he voters, but the (mainstream) media decided months ago that this wouldn't be a competitive midterm in the House, so at least in that half of the upcoming election, they've completely checked out.  And, with them having basically decided that the GOP is going to win the Senate, the coverage of the races they are interested in have been pretty poor.

      As you'd expect from me, I think they are going to end up missing A LOT of surprises, this year.  I can't tell you what those will be, but I think it's a mistake that will actually end up favoring Dems in both houses.

      No More Mikes: Eric Schertzing for Congress (MI-08)

      by MetroGnome on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:24:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  WI - 6 Grothman v. Harris (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, Setsuna Mudo

    Interesting read: http://www.fdlreporter.com/...

    "The Attorney General will not cast aspersions on my asparagus" - Texas Rep. Louis Gohmert-R to Attorney General Eric Holder.

    by walja on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:00:36 AM PDT

    •  Comparing Russ Feingold to Glenn Grothman (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY, sacman701

      That gives away the fact that the individual who made that comment has a beltway media mentality.

      Feingold has never said anything half as stupid as Grothman has. Feingold never claimed that a past opponent was part of some New World Order conspiracy, never complained about people celebrating Kwanzaa, never publicly defended women earning less money than men, and so on. Grothman has said all of that and much more.

      There might be a few similarities between Feingold and Grothman, but to compare Grothman "the Republican Feingold" is an overgeneralization, to put it mildly.

      Vote YES on raising the minimum wage in Illinois on November 4, because HELL YEAH!!! isn't an option.

      by DownstateDemocrat on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 05:43:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Citizens United (16+ / 0-)

    We now have a really good idea of how damaging this ruling was for Democrats in 2010:

    The 2010 Supreme Court decision that helped usher in a new era of political spending gave Republicans a measurable advantage on Election Day, according to a new study.

    The advantage isn’t large, but it is statistically significant: The researchers found the ruling, in Citizens United v. FEC, was associated with a six percentage-point increase in the likelihood that a Republican candidate would win a state legislative race.

    And in six of the most affected states — Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, North Carolina, Ohio and Tennessee — the probability that a Republican would be elected to a state legislative seat increased by 10 percentage points or more.

    In five other states — Colorado, Iowa, Texas, Wisconsin and Wyoming — Republican candidates were seven percentage points more likely to win.

    Go see the graphs: http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

    by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:26:47 AM PDT

  •  TX-23 (6+ / 0-)

    First advertisement from Gallego camp:

    https://www.facebook.com/...

    08/12 PVIs; 24; Gay Burkean Postmodern Pol Sci Dem; NM 2 (From), TX 17 (Home), TX 20 (BA/MA), SC 6 (PhD); "women are the only exploited group in history to have been idealized into powerlessness" - Erica Jong

    by wwmiv on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:21:13 PM PDT

  •  NY-11 (5+ / 0-)

    Very good and hard hitting ad from the DCCC: https://www.youtube.com/...

    (-9.38, -7.49), Blood type "O", libertarian socialist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

    by Setsuna Mudo on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:48:22 PM PDT

  •  Rick Perry tweets a meme, then deletes it (6+ / 0-)

    http://mashable.com/...

    That's supposed to be his personal account, but it's not clear if he tweets himself or if a staff member does. Either way, it was an immature tweet to send out.

    28, Male, CA-26, DK Elections Black Caucus Chair.

    by DrPhillips on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 02:38:28 PM PDT

  •  KY-State House: Generic ballot 45%R-44%D: (5+ / 0-)

    http://www.kentucky.com/...

    Pretty good considering it's an LV sample.  A Republican political scientist said he's surprised Repubs aren't ahead by more.  Considering Dems redrew the maps in the House and did a better job contesting districts, they can hold it with this split so long as they stay wary about their tougher districts.

    “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

    by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 03:50:12 PM PDT

  •  MO-Gov: McCaskill apparently dropping (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, MichaelNY

    hints that she wants to run for Governor.

    http://www.kansascity.com/...

    •  Some really weak evidence (4+ / 0-)
      She is, in fact, dropping hints all over the state that she wants to at least have a conversation about it.
      That's the only part of the article that even supports the claim, if you can call it that.  Everything else is speculation, like "She won't want to be in a powerless Senate minority" (this assumes Democrats lose the chamber), "She ran for governor before" (plenty of Senators have previously ran for governor, and vice versa...doesn't mean she will again), and "She made a lot of appearances recently" (why wouldn't she?)
      •  McCaskill also doesn't get along with Nixon. (8+ / 0-)

        So that could explain her criticisms of him. He kinda sucks.

        •  Nixon is a a lameduck (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LordMike, Jacob1145, MichaelNY

          The legislature basically just streamrolls him and overturns nearly every veto it'd be the same with Claire or Koster unless Dems can break the supermajority.

        •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LordMike

          So he didn't handle the whole Ferguson thing fantastically, but isn't he about as good as any Democrat, on policy issues?

        •  He seems quite good for a red-state Dem (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DCCyclone

          Not sure why you think he sucks.  It's not like he's governor of Massachusetts.

          21, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (school)
          politicohen.com
          Idiosyncratic, pro-establishment. Liberal, not progressive. For the poor, the children, the planet, and the rule of law.
          UC Berkeley; I think I'm in the conservative half of this city.

          by jncca on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 06:56:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  His response to Ferguson was terrible. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MetroGnome, Skaje, MichaelNY, askew

            That's enough for me.

            •  This (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Skaje, MichaelNY, HoosierD42

              There actually are single events which can make or break someone's career, and this should be one of them.  I mean, kudos for him nominally holding down the Democratic fort in a conservative state.  But, he never struck me as presidential material, and the Ferguson response is completely disqualifying, for me.  

              I mean, I've seen this guy in a few interviews during the whole Ferguson thing, and to sy he doesn't come acorss particularly bright is an understatement.  And, really, even that by itself wouldn't be a fatal flaw were he to make up for it with charisma or passion, but he doesn't even seem to have those in any unique or interesting form.

              I know I'm being harsh, but he's "good enough", at best.  Good enough to keep Missouri from falling completely into tea party hands, and that's about it.

              No More Mikes: Eric Schertzing for Congress (MI-08)

              by MetroGnome on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:40:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think he did well (0+ / 0-)

                but the police there acted extremely petty and ripped off the scab in Ferguson.

                “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

                by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:20:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ehstronghold, BenjaminDisraeli

                  It's become a meme that Nixon dropped the ball, but I think he did a fine job. I'm pretty sure it was his idea to get Captain Ron Johnson to take charge there. Johnson did more than anyone else in calming things down and enacting real change in the police culture there.

                  And that's exactly what white people should do. We shouldn't be the ones taking charge in situations like this. If we have the power to do so, our goal should be to make sure that black people have the power. He gave Johnson that power, a black man, and it was a good decision on his part.

                  •  Nixon did in fact drop the ball. (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MichaelNY, James Allen, askew

                    This pretty much sums it up.

                    Nixon comes across as a textbook case of too little, too late, the personification of a white male establishment out of touch with the African-American community. He took too long to acknowledge the seriousness of Michael Brown’s death, an under-reaction given the excessive use of force against the unarmed teen. Then he inflamed the situation by imposing a curfew.
                    Unfortunately, Nixon managed to get it wrong coming and going, letting too much time pass before he showed his face in Ferguson, triggering angry retorts from residents that as a Democrat he only cared about them on Election Day, then super-imposing a curfew Saturday and Sunday nights only to withdraw it Monday under withering criticism.
                    http://www.thedailybeast.com/...
            •  Yeah (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY, MetroGnome, askew, HoosierD42

              What else will he be known for?  Having all his vetoes overridden?

              This was basically his Hurricane Katrina moment and he handled it about as well as Bush, Blanco, and Nagin did.  

              •  Not all were, some big ones weren't (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JacobNC, LordMike

                like on taxes and labor.  And it's not his fault the police were completely petty and released a video that reignited the tensions.  After he took charge, it was going real well until that act of stupidity by the police.

                “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

                by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:17:25 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  It wasn't (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LordMike

              he was not the one who released that video that tried to posthumously discredit the teen.

              “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

              by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:19:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  There's absolutely no need for her to run (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jacob1145, MichaelNY

      Koster is already a perfectly fine candidate in waiting who has no baggage of DC on him. I could understand this if the MO Dems had a weak bench like the FL Dems do but they control most of the statewide offices I doubt she'd win either.

    •  Funny part of the article (9+ / 0-)

      It mentions the possibility that she'll be in the minority in the Senate after 2014, but doesn't seem to care that she'll be governor of a state whose two legislative branches have Republican supermajorities.

      •  Of course, there's a good possibility (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jacob1145, MichaelNY

        that even if she's in the minority in the Senate after 2014 that she can be back in the majority after 2016, and quite possibility with a Democratic president as well.  Probably not a Dem US House, but it's probably even less likely that Democrats will control either Missouri legislative chamber at least for the rest of the decade, meaning that she'd essentially be running to appoint and veto, and might not even be able to make those stick.

        At least if she does get elected governor we presumably wouldn't immediately lose her Senate seat; it isn't up until 2018 and either she or Nixon could appoint a successor.

        38, MD-8 (MD-6 after 2012) resident, NOVA raised, Euro/Anglophile Democrat

        by Mike in MD on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:54:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Probably more about 2018 (0+ / 0-)

        She lucked out in 2012. Granted she did a whole lot to make her own luck, but nevertheless, there is no reason to assume that even with the same skill she can pull that off again. And if she can't, and if Koster is Governor, there isn't really anywhere to go post-2019.

    •  I kinda want Koster, but he could run for her seat (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      if she wants to go for it.

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:28:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Globe endorses Moulton over Tierney (6+ / 0-)
    Moulton’s work in Iraq — negotiating with warlords, developing on-the-ground relationships in tense circumstances — might bode well for his ability to deal with recalcitrant Republicans, and to broker agreements between the two parties. At the very least, his war experience, status as a veteran, and nuanced take on America’s Middle East policies lend him a thoughtfulness and gravity that would be an asset to Congress. Moulton also draws from his time in the private sector, working for a company that was constructing a high-speed railway between Dallas and Houston. The experience has given him an appreciation for public-private partnerships, along with ideas that could prove useful to the Sixth District’s cities and towns.
    Link

    I think there's a 50/50 chance Tierney ends up losing next Tuesday and honestly that may be the best outcome for the party. Tisei would have no chance against someone like Moulton whereas with Tierney the district is a Tossup or Tilt D at best.

  •  Michigan Labor Day (6+ / 0-)

    As you might expect, Labor Day is a big deal here in Michigan, and not just in the backyard BBQ and travel-to-the-lake kind of way, either.

    In Detroit, the featured guess was none other than good ole Joe Biden.  He gave a well received speech on the old grounds of Tiger Stadium, hit up a coffee shop in Midtown for some traditional politicking, and attended a union backyard BBQ in the East English Village.

    Mark Schauer was also out at the parade.  At least from what I can tell, he looked as much the picture of the happy warrior as one can, and this after months of being the angry guy.  He looked triumphant; clearly, the polls have put a pep in his step.  Everyone spent the day dodging thunderstorms, but no one seemed to mind.  Here is Schauer walking through downtown Detroit soaking - pun intended - it all up with some supporters:

    My only real sign of concern is Gary Peters.  While he's not even close to panic mode, there has been a change in his personality, lately.  I don't know if he's seeing some internals that give him pause, or if he's simply reverted back to his overly cautious default, but he's not talking like a guy who believes he has this thing in the bag.  I'd really like to see this guy open up and start to feel more real than he does, because he's running about as generic a campaign as you can, and he doesn't have to - and shouldn't - against a candidate as goofy and unprepared as Terri Lynn Land.  

    All in all, this is still the most united (and organized) I've seen Michigan Dems in a very long time.  The only real shame is that it took 2010 to do this and thus redistricting, meaning that this kind of unity will not be rewarded as well as it should be because of what's looking to be a rather neutral year in terms of turnout.  This kind of effort, IMO, won't be rewarded with the results such unity and organization deserve.

    And, Rick Snyder?  Up at the straits to walk the bridge. This is an annual tradition governor's and thousands of Michiganders take part in, Republican or Democrat.  But, for a Republican like Snyder, this is probably the best place he could have been on a day that is usually a Dem day, but even more so this year than in many years past.  You know, about as far away from Southeast Michigan as his legs could take him. lol

    On to November.  Game on.

    No More Mikes: Eric Schertzing for Congress (MI-08)

    by MetroGnome on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 08:18:48 PM PDT

    •  Oh (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KingofSpades, MichaelNY, Setsuna Mudo

      And, on a personal point, Dem nominee Eric Schertzing here in MI-08 got a quick pic with Joe at Ernie Harwell Field at old Tiger Stadium, because, dammit, Michigan Dems aren't afraid to be seen with (and hopefully campaign with - come on over, Mr. President) officials in our administration. lol

      I usually shy away from embedding tweets since they usually don't even load well on my browser and computer, but it was Labor Day, so entertain me.

      No More Mikes: Eric Schertzing for Congress (MI-08)

      by MetroGnome on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:52:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  MO-GOV (0+ / 0-)

    McCaskill for governor?
    http://www.kansascity.com/...

    Grew up in southern VA. Have worked in 9 states across America. Managed races in NM/VA/DC. Was Deputy Political Director at DGA for the 2012 cycle. Follow me @bharatkrishnan if you want to be my friend. Currently managing Catherine Begaye for NM-HD 23

    by Bharat on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 09:05:14 PM PDT

  •  Alaska Democratic Party Central Committee... (14+ / 0-)

    Overwhelmingly approves the fusion ticket between Bill Walker, an independent Republican, and Byron Mallott, a Democrat. Story here.

    Game. On. If Alaska Democrats are lucky, Craig Fleener and Hollis French will voice support for the unity ticket and be duly rewarded with administration posts once Gov. Parnell is defeated.

    Pragmatic progressive. Oregonian, Cascadian, and American. Keeper of the DKE glossary.

    by SaoMagnifico on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:02:27 PM PDT

  •  NY-Gov (4+ / 0-)

    The New York Post (Groan) has an article out from Fred Dicker talking about how Cuomo's campaign is grasping with the scenario that Hochul could lose her primary forcing Cuomo's people to quickly nominate Hochul for a judgeship so the WFP, Independence and Women's Equality parties remain relevant after the election.

    Okay we all knew that....but there are some other interesting parts of the article:

    1) Political operatives close to Cuomo are worried that Teachout could get at least 30% of the vote next week. If that were to happen it would be an embarrassment and a blow to Cuomo's presidential ambitions since it would show progressives do not trust Cuomo. (I don't think you need an election to figure that out.)
    2) Rob Astorino believes he can get more than margin of error support from African Americans by broadcasting his opposition to gay marriage. Yeah good luck with that Rob.

    Also according to the Buffalo News, Cuomo is out with a new ad featuring both Cuomo and Hochul. I can't find the ad anywhere unfortunately.

    The Republican party is now an extreme right-wing party that is owned by their billionaire campaign contributors. - Bernie Sanders

    by ehstronghold on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 11:17:29 PM PDT

    •  Wow, talk about tone-deaf, Astorino. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ehstronghold, MichaelNY

      This coming from a guy who has run afoul of civil rights laws.

      “The universe is big. It’s vast and complicated and ridiculous. And sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles.” -The Doctor

      by KingofSpades on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 11:26:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KingofSpades, MichaelNY, LordMike

        can't wait until Astorino shows his face in Flushing. He'll probably say Asians should vote for him because they are "naturally conservative" as Bill O'Reilly would say. Or maybe he'll trot out the old model minority stereotype.

        The Republican party is now an extreme right-wing party that is owned by their billionaire campaign contributors. - Bernie Sanders

        by ehstronghold on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 11:34:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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