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Dianne Feinstein and other fucking clueless democrats agreeing with the McCains of this world - CALM THE FUCK DOWN.

President Obama was focused enough to get Osama. He , not the war hawks, had the guts to deal with Pakistan and Karzai properly. The surge did not work, you neocons. If itreally worked, it would have been more than a short term solution. It's no different from dealing with pests in your home. You can go all out in reducing their numbers, but if you don't deal with the underlying causes, such victories are short term.

You get into another war. ISIS is temporarily beaten. SO WHAT? What's to prevent another Islamic outfit to spring up as ISIS or another named outfit?

Obama needs to gather the democrats like Jane Harman, Hillary and Feinstein and ask them if they are willing to guarantee success for the next TWENTY YEARS if he goes by their recommendation. Are they willing to put on paper their prediction as to what happens long term and resign after 10 years if most of their predictions do not come true. Are they willing to back it up even further by willing to wager their federal pensions? Oh yeah, I didn't think so.  And why the hell is Obama not recruiting prominent Democrats to preach the virtues of careful analysis and planning. This is not a case of ISIS being an immediate danger to invading our country, as sadistic as that outfit is. Sure, there will still be some casualties in upcoming months. But rushing into something will only ensure a lot of casualties in our military without any assurance that these methods work. These same democratic leaders sure took their time to make a comment or no  comment about the danger to black citizens locally, but sure have no problem criticizing the President on a foreign issue that may or may not have the same danger level to a US citizen living in the US.  A Swedish journalist was assassinated in Afghnistan not too long ago. Should Sweden just send troops to Afghanistan immediately?

Obama needs to lead Democrats into a PR offensive on the neocons of both parties and say that "DON"T DO STUPID THINGS" has been a viable strategy because it saved billions of dollars which can be used in the future if a better plan comes along. You just do not get into a war just because.....

Dealing with an evil outfit like ISIS requires more than dumbass reactionary strategy. It is a decentralized enemy in concept even if by all appearances, they have taken over tangible land and control it. You have to get other countries on board and proceed to exterminate their members like roaches. Spies, assassination squads, mercenaries(another iffy solution that I am putting onboard but not sold on it yet as that could lead to terrorists killing others by accusing them of mercenaries), and maybe  then,  targeted attacks by our armed forces . Don't just resort to military action as the main way. You get rid of ISIS, another Islamic (or other) outfit will just pop up.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I woulda T&R'd but for the last few words. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    charliehall2, Alhambra

    I preach the church without Christ, where the lame don't walk, the blind don't see and what's dead stays that way! Hazel Motes in "Wise Blood" (Flannery O'Connor)

    by chalatenango on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 03:58:12 PM PDT

  •  What intelligence? Seems to be an extension of all (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    war all the time.

    The ME is shite because "we" made it so.

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 04:05:06 PM PDT

    •  It was a mess before we were there (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      killjoy, G2geek

      Read about the history of the Wahabis in Saudi Arabia, the genocide of the Armenians, the attempted genocide of Jews by the same folks who did it to the Armenians, that British and French colonial errors, the kleptocratic Arab rulers....

  •  If you believe it is an intelligence issue, (and.. (0+ / 0-)

    ..I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you), then it must follow that the US must place MANY intelligence officers on the ground.

    More boots on the ground means more exposure to beheadings.

    Hence, the dilemma.

    Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project.

    by PatriciaVa on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 04:07:22 PM PDT

  •  Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance here, but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Be Skeptical, sandbox, JVolvo

    I'll take a chance anyway:  The beginning of the defeat of ISIS must from inside Islam.  They are waging their crusades in the name of Islam, but it's a perverted, twisted reading of this religion, that should be--and no doubt is--an anathema to Muslims everywhere.   Every religious leader has to denounce these infidels to their flocks.  If there were ever a call for a fatwa pronouncing them outside the faith,  these monsters would provide a justification.  Unified condemnation of their ideas, their methods, their actions would be a helpful start.  

    We also need to see serious financial and military response from the wealthy Middle East countries, not simply a demand that the US solve this problem with yet more war.  I realize that we broke it, so we own it.  But we can't accomplish this simply by western bombing.

    Forgive my naïveté: but American bombs, even against such worthy targets, cannot solve such a huge problem.

    "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

    by SottoVoce on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 04:35:42 PM PDT

  •  " with the underlying causes," (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pravin, a2nite

    One of the primary underlying causes of unrest in the region has been the meddling by outside entities without any meaningful input by the people who live there.
    From the original drawings of boundaries in 1917 onward, the West has continually stirred the pot, keeping the local populations at each others' throats.
    Back before international flights and worldwide communication, that was a pretty safe bet for US.
    Not no more.
    What needs to happen now, and I believe it is what we will see Obama try to do, is to put the local stakeholders forward, get them to figure out a solution and then back them up in implementing that plan.
    I don't see Clinton or any of the possible Republicans taking that approach.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 04:42:19 PM PDT

    •  We have loons in Congress on foreign policy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, Calamity Jean

      Not a spoonful of gravitas in the whole bunch of them taken together.

      We have an intelligence community so awash with resources that one part of the bureaucracy is stepping on all of the others, the signal intelligence function has created a haystack and forgotten that it was searching for needles, and a drone operation that thinks it's peachy keen to strike wedding parties and first responders even when the target turns out to be mistaken.  (US urban SWAT teams seem to have the same intelligence problem.)

      And we have 50 years of proven counter-insurgency incompetence.  The starting point being the though that an empire can do counter-insurgency in someone else's country.  Think about that 18th century British approach a bit and you will understand why it never does work no matter how long and hard you try, no matter how much you destroy the village to liberate it.

      Now consider this.  ISIS are primarily foreign fighters seeking a transnational caliphate and allying with a few but not all Sunni locals who have their own axes to grind (or scimitars to swing).  When the US introduces itself into the situation, the US becomes the foreign fighters and a distraction and target.

      There is only one role that makes sense for the US right now: destroying the US equipment that it trasported into the region and forward positioned when it left Iraq and the equipment that our allies Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have been supplying to their allies and proxies in Syria that have gotten into the hands of ISIS forces.  And that destruction needs to happen as ISIS is laying siege to a yet another town or city, in clear view, and away from civilians.

      The Iraqis, Kurds,  and Shi'a militias are armed well enough and are defending their own homes and families.  The Iraqi government is being aided by Iranian Quds operatives and supplies of weapons from Russia.  Time for the US to mend fences with both of those nations if US interests genuinely are at stake in opposing ISIS.

      Dealing with ISIS is an intellience issue, but not an intelligence community issue, just a using the brain intelligence issue.  ISIS is using elaborately staged executions to troll and provoke the US just like al Quaeda used a one-off attack on a major US landmark to troll the Bush administration into wasting trillions of dollars and exposing the weakness of the "sole superpower".  Once you know that game, it's reasonably easy to defeat through bringing the global economy back to prosperity and rebuilding helpful economic infrastructure worldwide.  Using our military to destroy more of the world's infrastructure and make more lives miserable works counter to US interests in the end.  So does failing to allow accountability for the war crimes of the US over the past 13 years.

      50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

      by TarheelDem on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 05:07:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It was a mess long before that (0+ / 0-)

      See my comment above, and read some history of the Ottoman Empire.

    •  Yep, these idiots in Congress acting like (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      Pearl Harbor has been just bombed. They spent a hundred years fucking up in the middle east. They can't give Obama a few months?

    •  Except (0+ / 0-)
      What needs to happen now, and I believe it is what we will see Obama try to do, is to put the local stakeholders forward, get them to figure out a solution and then back them up in implementing that plan.
      And this will fail because local stakeholders want no part of this and will wait out the clock until America elects another neocon to send in the troops and take the blame.
  •  In addition fo bombing and droning ISIS (0+ / 0-)

    in Iraq and Syria, we need to deport ISIS members and sympathizers living in the west.

    Here's an ISIS rally occurring in the Hague last month. This cannot be allowed.

  •  whatever the case may be (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sandbox, Calamity Jean

    is a dangerous precedent not being set here? namely: it is possible to capture, torture, and publicly kill innocent americans without fear of swift and devastating retribution.

    i wasnt in favor of any of the last several wars, because they were clearly not undertaken with any sort of real self-defense motive. they were wars of choice, at best, and wars of aggression, at worse. but try as i might to remain a non-interventionalist, i cant help but think that, for the safety of americans everywhere, it is extremely important for those that would harm us to understand that doing so is tantamount to suicide. murdering innocent civilians is neither a short term tactic nor a long term strategy. ISIS and their ilk need to understand that when you act this way -- when you behead americans and post the gory videos online -- that a missile is going to come down on your head almost immediately, not matter where you are or who you are with or what you are doing.

    yes, the underlying causes of terrorism have to be dealt with for true success in the fight against it. economic justice, political freedom, and self-determination are non-negotiable. but in the short term: crush these a--holes. do it smartly, do it thoroughly, and do it now.

  •  ISIS exists (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    because of Assad and Maliki both attempting to keep dominion over Sunni peoples of the region by Shiites/Alawites.  (It's actually an ethnic difference but the convention is to refer to the groups by their sectarian religious distinctions.)

    Maliki is gone and with collapse of its army Iraq has pretty much partitioned as it could and should have.

    Assad is the factor keeping ISIS viable.  It's the force that can and probably will oust him from Damascus and east of the Orontes.  When that's done it's hard to see ISIS or radical Islamism lasting as regime of the new Syria.  After it's served its purpose local Sunnis will rise up and destroy it.  Some form of Islamism will likely be instituted, the average people in the new country being what they are.  But they won't put up with the foreign, crazed, hyperviolent crap for long when it's directed not against their enemies but purely themselves.  The wackos will get their just desserts at the hands of their own.

    If you really want ISIS gone, see to defeat of Assad's forces east of the Orontes.

  •  It is all about politics, not intelligence (0+ / 0-)

    I think over 90% of what is being said publicly by members of Congress at the moment about ISIS, Iraq, and Syria, is cynical posturing for the upcoming Congressional elections.  Most of it has nothing to do with a good faith policy debate about what it is the U.S. should actually do about ISIS in Syria.  So appeals to politicians to calm down and be smart are not going to be heard; we are in the thick of election season, now that it is after Labor Day.  The basic goal of both political parties -- but more so for the Republicans -- is to energize their own base and depress and discourage the turnout of the opposition's base.   Depressing and discouraging the opposition's base is by far the most important of the two goals.

    Thus, any Republican who gets near a microphone from now until Election Day is not going to miss any chance to characterize President Obama and his people as weak and incompetent when it comes to foreign policy. It's not true, and in my opinion most of such arguments are actually based on lies, but in the short term if enough people repeat a big lie it will be accepted as the truth.   While the subject matter is different, it is the same strategy that was so successful for the Republicans in 2010.

    Ironically, a large and successful air offensive against ISIS would probably help the President politically.  For that reason, I think the Republicans want to posture as war hawks, but that they are going to drag their feet and delay as far as authorizing President Obama to actually do anything.  

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