A month ago I dared to weigh in on the Affleck/Maher/Harris debate. Unfortunately I added an inflammatory poll and I learned my lesson on that!
In that diary last month I started by saying I abhor prejudice of any kind and that I was sensitive to the rabid Islamophobia subsequent to 9/11. My liberal partner became very hostile toward Muslims and Islam and that drove me nuts. After all, on 9/11, my job's manager was a Pakistani Muslim who immigrated to the U.S. and one of my colleagues was a devout Muslim woman who wore a Hijab and even invited me to her Islamic wedding. I opposed then and oppose today a blanket condemnation of Islam or Muslims because some Muslims promote or support violent prescriptions from the Qur'an and their Hadith.
Probably more because of my inflammatory poll, than my diary, I got quite a bit of criticism from Daily Kos readers for raising the valid question - Is Islam, and more importantly how it is practiced and believed by wide swaths of the Muslim world, a religion that violates common human rights, including the right to life?
Cont. below the fold
As an example we have these verses regarding apostasy from the Qur'an and the Hadith:
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
And further examples of violence against infidels:
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
There are many more examples of the prescription of violence in the Qur'an and the Hadith. The point Bill Maher and Sam Harris tried to make on the
Real Time show October 3 was that
the majority of Muslims in certain countries support the violent prescriptions of the Qu'ran.
One key sample from the 2010 Pew poll was:
About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. Muslims in Pakistan and Egypt are also the most supportive of whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery; 82% in Pakistan and 77% in Egypt favor making this type of punishment the law in their countries, as do 65% of Muslims in Nigeria and 58% in Jordan.
When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it. ...
A key reaction to the Affleck/Maher/Harris debate from liberal circles (discloser: I am a liberal) was it smacked of Islamophobia and racism as voiced so stridently by Bill Affleck himself. For some reason many liberals, who are unafraid to criticize examples of extremism in Christianity or point out violent prescriptions in the Old Testament:
Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Disclosure: I am gay)
seem afraid to criticize Islam and the large number of Muslims who support it's religion's violent prescriptions, for fear of being called Islamophobes.
A young Islamic woman from Pakistan recently wrote an article criticizing Ben Affleck's stridency and over-bearing attempt to shut down debate by crying "racism" regardless of his good intentions. Ben's viewpoint is shared by many liberal people, I dare say people on Daily Kos.
Here are some key points she made:
I am writing to you today as a woman who was born and raised in Islam. I saw your discussion with Bill Maher and Sam Harris, and I must say you did me a great disservice that day. Your heart was in the right place, of course, and it was lovely of you to step up and defend ‘my people’.
What you really did though, perhaps inadvertently, was silence a conversation that never gets started. Two people attempted to begin a dialogue and you wouldn’t even listen. Why should any set of ideas be above criticism, Ben?
Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great but who stands in my corner and for the others who feel oppressed by the religion? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened.
What you did by screaming ‘racist!’ was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them. You became an instant hero, a defender of Islam. It’s kind, it really is. ...
We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.
So the question is, should we as liberals, for the sake of human rights, be willing to criticize a religion, in this case Islam, for prescriptions of violence and inequality and the large number of Muslims who support such teachings? Or should we avoid such criticism to show our open-mindedness and fairness toward all peoples and their beliefs?
Bill Maher and Sam Harris were not saying we should condemn all Muslims or that Islam does not have many teachings of peaceful co-existence. They were saying there is an alarming number of Muslims who support the violent teachings, unlike most Christians who do not support the implementation of violence prescriptions in the Old Testament.
I believe that until we, especially liberals including me, are willing to admit this stark reality, we will have trouble understanding why so many Muslims suffer gross discrimination within their own religion (especially women) and why so many Muslims are ready to declare jihad against westerners.
Let's try to have a frank honest adult debate on this sensitive issue.
UPDATE:
Thanks to pat of butter in a sea of grits for indicating an open-minded response from Michael Moore.