Admittedly, I'm a bit masochistic. But more importantly, I believe in the power and importance of communication. Accordingly, at my day job (which is very communications-centric) I make a point to try to stay in touch with what the "opposition" is also saying. Said job is also very issue-specific. Knowing what the "other side" is talking about is important if for no other reason than to be clear on how issues are framed in that "camp" and what other people's concerns are....so that you can adjust your communications messages accordingly, address their concerns, etc. (or simply know when to fight or "wun away!!" as Monty Python would put it....)
more on the flip....
I won't link to that site, but in the unlikely event that any readers don't know what I'm talking about, do a search for "Free Republic blog."
Venturing into Freep land is never pretty, but is always enlightening in a darklightening kinda way. So I'm watching the Freepers from time to time so you don't have to.
One thing I'm afraid of is that by posting this I've unknowingly violated the "Fair Use" disclaimer that the site has...if that's the case I hope a fellow Kossack lawyer type will advise so that I don't get sued. These "fine people" I'm sure would sue any of us in a HEARTBEAT.
Many other posters and commenters have noted that "these people" (i.e. the kind of people who would post in freeperville) are not "reachable." That may be true (but my sense is that it is NOT true....life usually gets more dangerous when we start saying "always" and "never"...though there are of course exceptions to that...e.g. torture is always wrong.... )
I also know this kind of diary has been done before, but it's important to do from time to time, methinks. We ignore the thinking and memes and talking on "the other side" at our peril, if we want to win. And we must win. (06 and 08) that is.
Anyway...this is (some of) what they are saying...of course I've taken quotes out of their context, but I've tried to select comments that "stand alone" just fine as a semi-representative sample...
But I suppose the question is ...how would YOU respond to these thoughts?
Hang on to your breakfast...
These are word for word exact quotes of posters.
"The DemoRat Party has only one shape -- that of the Hammer and Sickle. They have nothing else, are nothing else, and they can continue their useless negativism and whining all they want. The good part is that the REAL world has their number, big time. Just power-mad socialists who care only about their own empowerment and doing everything they can to unravel American liberty, culture, heritage, and freedoms"
Um, no, that's the whole point. We care about everyone. Including, <grrrr> <sigh> freepers. Sounds like a word-for-word Limbaugh talking point to me. But if not, how in the WORLD could anyone come up with this idea?
A recent diarist described her "conversation with a <gasp> conservative" on dkos... if interested, search for that diary title, my html is rusty, haven't really figured out this diary thing yet... the point is--this guy above reads like someone who has NEVER really talked to a liberal! That diarist raised the important point that we might all need to TALK to the <gasp> conservatives, one way or another, from time to time.
Hey, just a thought. Read on.
"I don't know why you would waste your time with those sub-human cretins. (posters on daily kos...)
Ummm, thanks. Right back at ya, buddy. Smacks of war-mongering to me...exactly how some soldiers think of the enemy, and admittedly, how I sometimes think of the rethugs. I'm working on it, though. That's an emotional response. Logically, I know that republicans are NOT all sub-human cretins. And if I want them to HEAR my message, which I do....I cannot afford to think of them that way. But it's important for me to know that that's how they think of ME. And how they think of YOU, too, if you are reading this....
"Can we tell how many threads are started each day, (and how many replies are sent each day) compared to the Kos?"
Yep, sure can. There's a HELL of a lot more on dkos. Get a clue. (just look at jotter's diaries...or kos's traffic info in the "about" section of this website)
"Seems to me that total registered readers is more than double Kos, and daily hits by non-writers are higher as well.
Ummmm....no, dream on, the numbers I've seen show freeperville WAYYYYYYYY below where dkos is. Not that this is a comparing blogs diary...it's a "what universe are these people living in?" diary... and how do we counter these messages?
Lakoff and the frameworks folks (two separate entitites, incidentally) posit that we don't negate an idea or meme by repeating it, e.g. we accidentally are reinforcing it for example:
neocon: "Liberals are bad, trying to destroy the world"
liberal: "Liberals are not bad or trying to destroy the world..."
That reinforces the meme, so they say, and that theory makes perfect sense.... (I'll ignore the fact that i've more or less done that in this diary...)
How about this:
"Don't you get it? International communism (which includes the Democratic party and the American left) and international terrorism are on the same side...
Oh, yeah. We're trying to save the world. Wrong again, bucko.
One perhaps more actionable and important part of this whole thing...right blogistan as MSOC might call it is understandably upset about a woman named Deb Frisch who calls herself a liberal who (literally) apparently posted some threats --including sexual abuse!--towards a conservative blogger's 2 year old son. Yukky stuff, that. They're pissed because they feel the "lefties" haven't condemned her and take that as saying we think what she did is ok. Well, I'd bet my next paycheck that "we" don't. This is now at least the second mention of this (search "I condemn..." to find the diary from last night about this...) in the last 24 hours on dkos alone. Liberals, as far as I know, defend the freedom of speech but do NOT condone threatening anyone's children. Period.
However, liberals have (correctly, I think,) noted that we are not responsible for what this Frisch woman said and we did not elect her to speak for us...
Anyway, this one is NOT from Freeperville, it's from the aptly named www.rightwingnuthouse.com...but it's representative (trying to link: http://rightwingnuthouse.com/...)
"Back when I was inside the NYC theater world Frisch-speak was the norm and, though I left two years ago I'll wager, still is. Deb Frisch just aired in the open what the Left really believes, thinks and says behind the scenes. They would do stuff like placing a photo of Bush and Laura on the toilet seat so that everyone could piss and poop all over Bush, amuse themselves with talk about the `retard children' of `repugs', wail on those `uptight Christers' who don't know how to pole-dance etc, etc.
My theory as to why this type of dialogue continues is that politically correct thinking allows for Frisch speak to exist as the norm. In their world it is perfectly acceptable to be threatening, vicious and nasty towards anything perceived as conservative because everything else is off limits. Group-think restricts dissent and whenever their vitrol was called out instead of acknowledging their words as vitrol the response instead was always `What are you a Bushie'. Shelley stated `the poet is the unacknowledged legislator' and when emotionally disfunctional people like Frisch are influenced by such poetry contrived by those who need a faux enemy to attack (in today's world it is the conservative)they believe themselves justified in airing their irrational emotionalism.
Deb Frisch took what was said in the green room and brought it out onto the stage. .
Well, you're right about one thing. Some of us, perhaps most of us, now see neocons as the enemy. But hey, They started it. We were minding our own business before the neocons started destroying this country. (Note: there is a difference between "neocon" and conservatives. I think, anyway. Perhaps someone can elaborate....)
On to the more disturbing parts....
"what we need to do is ID the users of the daily kos. It must be attacked and make any user of daily kos as unemployable as a beer guzzler on myspace.com
Ah. This guy has apparently totally bought the meme that all liberals are truly trying to destroy any shred of decency and his way of life. Thanks, Limbaugh et. al. anyway, let's hope this guy doesn't work for the NSA, shall we?
....I guess the question is, does that mean that liberals/progressives need to counter in kind--that we send the message that it's the neocons destroying the country? at this point, I'm thinking, maybe, that that is exactly what we need to do.
I keep using the male pronoun but it's worth noting that there are women posting on Freepland too.
"First we have the left passing laws that make even looking at a girl with even a hint or tinge of finding her attractive a basis for a sexual harrasment suit, now, concurrent with that, we'll have laws to compell every man to treat every woman - fat, ugly, old, liberal, what-have-you - as if she were a sexually and erotically over-powering goddess of love (sex = love), on grounds that to do otherwise is to potentially hurt the feelings and self-esteem of less attractive women.
Equal treatment for all in a sexually fixated society.
And men will get screwed in the rear coming and going - damned if we do, damned if we don't. Isn't that the plan?
Now that's just weird. Where in the world does THAT meme come from? Anybody trying to pass laws to make women seem more attractive to men while I wasn't looking? sheesh. Ridiculous.
Anyway, my masochistic moment has passed. But for those of you who've never wandered into freepland (or those of you who have...) and taken a look-see...what do you think of this?
I am particularly interested in discussing the communications aspect of all this--takers?
One thing is VERY clear to me--communications MUST become more of a focus...including outside of "blogistan."
One idea that had occurred to me--what if there was a database available--online, password-protected--where progressive LTE's, op-eds, etc. could be stored--where say, I could put my LTE that will run out here in nowhere land on the East Coast, and where say, a kossack in CA could go, peruse my LTE, and if they wanted, put their name on it, and send to THEIR local paper...hey, just a thought.....
Thanks for reading!