There's been a lot of conversation on the re-framing of Core Democratic values lately and I don't get the feeling that we've really hit it yet.
Call me lazy (I can take it), but I thought I'd share part of a conversation I've been having with my moderate Republican friend that got down into the perception of core values between the parties. Since we're not quite there yet, I thought I'd add my .02 to the debate.
The conversation on the flip.
Czarvoter's Freind - Sep 22, 2005
Being a non-religous moderate Replublican (oxymoron), I am caught in the middle here. I still believe in the political philosophy of of the Republican Party, but am firmly against the right wing, this would include the Bush administration. The philosophy of the Republicans has always been smaller government, the philosphy is the same as long as you live the religous Replicant way. Two specific things are bothering me. First is the long lasting ideology that Bush will install in the Supreme Court with two appointments (needless to mention that the new guy will be Chief Justice) The other is $200 billion for the rebuilding of N.O. and the Gulf Coast and the other is the $200 billion spent on Iraq so far. So we have a $400 billion dollar tab, that in my humble opinion could have been avoided, N.O. not Bush's fault, but a President that says no new taxes? Ridiculous.
But i'm torn, Kudo's to the Bush administration for the handling of North Korea.
I guess what I am trying to say is there is a middle ground between Fox News and CNN.
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Czarvoter - Sep 22, 2005
Of course you are correct. I think we can all agree that it is MSNBC.
Sorry, couldn't resist....
What you miss is what the Republicans "used" to be before they got hijacked by the religious right. While I disagree with "supply-side" economics per se, I was fully supportive (as was Clinton) of deficit reduction, fiscal responsibility, and welfare to work programs, but over the last 20 years.... that's been the Democrats!. I can fully appreciate you feeling torn.
I'm curious. What is your personal perception of, as you say, "the political philosophy of of the Republican Party" and conversely, what is your perception of the political philosophy of of the Democratic Party? I'm not looking to criticize or anything, I'm honestly curious what your view is.
I've recently realized how many people have huge misconceptions about the positions the two major political parties represent and how many people don't even recognize which party best represents their personal philosophies. So I'm interested in your perspective.
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Czarvoter's Friend - Sep 23, 2005
Being for choice (Dem)and for the death penalty (Rep.), Strong national defense (Rep.) The last Democrat strong on national defense was Kennedy. Job creation through support of business (Rep.), but the Bush administration is lining too many familiar pockets with no-bid contracts, ect.
I was lucky enough to see some speakers a couple of weeks ago. First was John Ashcroft, who I generally distain for issues of freedom of speech and censorship. He spoke in Defense of the Patriot act. He stated that these wiretaps, ect, are allready legal for drug trafficing and organized crime, why not terrorists. He really did not get into the unlawful detentions, ect. Next was John Edwards, he wants to have New Orleans rebuilt by the displaced. Sounds good on paper, but it would take much longer and cost much more. But Halliburton should not rebuild the city either, no non-bid contracts. Edwards also spoke of educaion in the poor areas. I agree that it's needed but to quote Dan Quail there also needs to be family values or the money will go for naught. However, family values are not religous values, somehow that got tremendously warped. The last speaker that day was Colin Powell. He was entertaining. What I found curious was that he said "Iraq was a just war" he didn't say necesary! A just war could be against any brutal dictator, but i'm sure he doesn't support war on a mass scale. His carefully choosen words said alot.
Anyway, back to your original question. Replicans are capitalistic and Democrats are more socialistic. I am for smaller government, as long as it's not in a church with dinner served by Halliburton, toys provided by Tyco and power by Enron.
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Czarvoter - Oct 10, 2005
Well said. We see eye-to-eye on many issues. It's too bad that these labels are so inaccurate though. Capitalists vs. Socialists, I hear it all the time and I wince. Here's the thing: both the R's and the D's are BOTH capitalists, but one believes that there should also be a social "safety net" for those unable to participate in capitalist practices, and the other thinks that it's every man for themselves. Too dumb or infirm to work? Not our problem.
Same goes with national defense. BOTH R's and D's believe in a strong defense. The difference is that one party thinks that national defense should include diplomacy and international cooperation as well as a strong military that takes good care of it's soldiers both on and off the battlefield, the other party thinks WE JUST NEED TO KICK SOME F'N ASS! There's nothing some bombs and a few platoons of someone else's kids can't fix. Sure, that's full o' testosterone, but I beg to differ as to which is a "stronger national defense".
As for choice, Howard Dean really nailed it the other day when he said "We are not a pro-abortion party. The issue is whether a woman gets to decide or whether Tom DeLay or President Bush decides for them." to which I wholeheartedly agree (as I'm sure you do too).
The two things that really concern me about the Republicans, and actually, less the R's in general as the true "Conservatives" are two things you touched on; the power of corporations and/or religion to supercede the control of democracy in this country. These may be my biggest problem with "the right".
Thomas Jefferson said in 1816 "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare to already challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." I see this as the danger to an "unrestricted" capitalist society that I don't think the R's really share. The Bush tax cuts are a prime example of the aristocratic abuse of power. Look, you want to cut taxes? Fine. I'm with you. Let's all agree on what spending cuts need to be made first. Once that's done, THEN the surplus can and SHOULD be returned to the people. I'm not pro-tax, I'm anti-deficit, as I believe are most democrats. Putting our nations debt on a high interest credit card for our grandchildren to pay, I think is criminal. Not to mention that our geopolitical rivals are the ones that are holding our debt. Just wait till they call it due or worse, use it against us to prevent us from doing something (like protecting Taiwan for instance). I won't even get into the cronyism and unfettered corruption that has permeated the R's since coming to power (though I'll concede that the D's had their issues too when in power).
The other thing is religion. Christianity is totally awesome... if you're a Christian. If not, it's called oppression. I lived in a place controlled by a single religion (SLC) and let me tell you, I didn't like it one bit. I think everybody should be free to practice their religion, but that right should end "at the tip of my nose". I fear the legislation of religion, whether it's teaching intelligent design vs. evolution, prayer in school, the 10 commandments in courthouses, pro-life "forced births", preventing the use of stem cells... I could go on, but to quote Dean again, "We have great religious plurality in this country but we also ought to make sure that science is science, not religion." The influence of people like James Dobson (see this if you don't know who he is: http://tinyurl.com/dprbz ) on this administration and republicans in general is more akin to the Taliban or the Iranian theocracy type of government than a western democracy. In fact, the way that people who decry George Bush critics as "unpatriotic" is more similar to the "cult of personality" of North Korea's Kim Jong-Il than a free nation fearless of open debate. True, we're not being thrown in prison, but give them time...
Lastly I'll say this. One very telling major difference I see between the parties is that the Republicans actually (and foolishly in my opinion) TRUST their elected officials. The Democrats, generally, do not. No one who seeks power should be trusted with it.
Anyway, it contains a lot of points I've wanted to write about here without actually having to do it twice. I hope it adds something to the debate.