I find it fun to follow NRO's Derbyshire. He has some most wacky wingnut opinions (say, on torture or homosexuality), but he keeps some good sense as well (say, on
Intelligent Design).
So here is his next mix of foolishness and some sanity, the new column Nice Election. Now Let's Get out of There
I supported the Iraq war as a punitive exercise. After 9/11 it seemed to me that we were in great danger from terrorists getting a nuclear weapon and deleting a couple of our cities. There were, I figured, two things to do about this.
The first was of course to chase down and kill as many terrorists as we could find. This, however, would be like trying to get rid of roaches in a New York City apartment. No matter how many you kill, there are always more; but at least you can keep them on the run, their numbers down at a decent level.
The second thing was to act against terrorist-friendly states. <..> The Iraq war filled the bill, and I thought it was beautifully done.
Of course, if terrorists breed differently than roaches, especially if killing may multiply them, there must be smarter ways to keep their numbers down.
But, the Iraq war beautifully done? I won't start arguing about "beautiful", but is there anything done for US safety? Isn't al Qaeda in Iraq now better off than before the war?
At what point it turned into an exercise in saving the world, I am not sure. I don't see the point in saving the world if the world doesn't want to be saved, and I can't see that world-saving is anyway essential for our national security.
Would we <..> be more secure if all the countries of the world were like Denmark? Surely. Do we actually have a clue how to bring this happy state of affairs about? I doubt it. Can we enhance our security without performing worldwide miracles of cultural transformation? Certainly.
But don't all people, everywhere, want to live in freedom? No, they don't. I once spent a year living and working in Communist China. I met many people who yearned for freedom. My rather strong impression, though, was that the majority couldn't have cared less. Their main aspiration was to be materially better off. That aspiration has now been fulfilled, and China is as far away from freedom as it was 20 years ago.
But didn't the people of Iraq show us all, in the face of fearsome intimidation, that they long to be free? Well, some of them showed that they were very glad indeed to be able to elect the representatives of their choice. Seems to me, though, that those representatives resemble <..> the mullahs who have been making such a nuisance of themselves in Iran, and who might be the death of us yet. Wise men tell me that though these characters are a totally different species of mullah. I can't say I'm convinced.
What about the US becoming a bit more like Denmark? Would the world be too quiet?
The same aspiration (of being materially beter off) appears to be stronger than freedom in America as well. Or does it not?
Mullahs... Is Bush spreading theocrasy in the world?
Elections, I will grant you, are not nothing; but they are next to nothing. I once lived in a place that was as free as could be - considerably freer, in many respects, than the present-day USA; yet that place had never had an election at all. (It was British-ruled Hong Kong.) Contrariwise, take a trip to any one of the world's most corrupt, most destructive despotisms. Chances are you will find an election in its recent past. Zimbabwe's long, slow slide from breadbasket of southern Africa into a barbarous sinkhole of misery, hunger, and cruelty has been punctuated by regular elections.
Almost nice...
<..> suppose we were to quit Iraq next week, and the place were then to collapse into chaos. How would that harm us? How is chaos in Iraq bad for us? A nation in chaos, under a road-warrior culture, isn't going to be able to make nukes. Somalia can't make nukes. Haiti can't make nukes. So what's the problem? Because "chaos breeds terror"? Then Hamburg, London, Paris, Riyadh, and Marin County must be very chaotic places.
We may need good scientific research on chaos here. (What is your math field, Derb?) They can't make nukes, but they can get them. Experimenting with chaos is not so conservative attitude.
Ah, but didn't the chaos in Afghanistan allow Osama bin Laden to hatch his evil plots? Yes, it did - but only in combination with our inattention. We have to keep our eye on these places, and go in and blow up a training camp now and again, or chase some mujahedeen round the block; but chaos per se is not our enemy. To the contrary. Plenty of countries - at least half a dozen just in Africa - are more chaotic than Iraq is ever likely to be, yet they are no threat to us, and will not be able to make nukes. That is all we require. The less charitable of us might even offer up a prayer now and again to the effect that, if these places cannot get themselves rational government, they should remain in a condition of chaos, rather than turning into little North Koreas.
Ughh... I wouldn't pray for less charitable of us...
Regarding the "go and blow" job now and again, its effectiveness did not improve visibly since the pre-9/11 world, did it?
I am - just bite down hard and say it, man - with Senator Edward Kennedy on this. I want U.S. forces to leave Iraq ASAP. If the place then descends into chaos, I'm fine with it. What's that you say? It would be awful hard on the Iraqis? Probably so. <..> We can only do so much. God knows, we have done enough for Iraq, with blood and treasure. The rest is up to the Iraqis. If they make a pig's ear of it, that's a shame, but I can't see why it's our problem. There are lots of messed-up countries in the world. Iraq will be another one.
If only Iraqis will have something to thank us for... Saddam maybe... Maybe... Any more "Chaos for dictators" programs?
It's possible this friend is right [that I don't really understand America yet]. But then consider: After having grown up awash in American culture from early childhood <...> and then having subsequently lived in this country for 25 years, traveling to most parts of it at one time or another, there are, according to my friend, still key things I don't grasp about America. This is, I'll allow, entirely possible. I wouldn't discount it. But then...are you quite sure you understand Iraq?
Good question. Ask Goldberg!