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Bookflurries: Bookchat: Madness of Atlantis

Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:03:02 PM PDT

Welcome to bookchat where you can talk about anything...books, plays, essays, quotes, words, magazines, and books on tape.  You don’t have to be reading a book to come in, sit down, and chat with us.

Despite all the books that list Atlantis as having been found in places all over the world and as much as that does fascinate me, it is not important to me to know if it really existed or not.  There is something deeper inside me, as with the King Arthur legends, that just needs to have an Atlantis to dream about, to imagine, to walk the streets of...thus the title...

There are many places that have been invented by authors as allegories and as classic stories that also grab my imagination.  I would like to hear about the ones that grab yours.

So what do you think about Atlantis?  Allegory, Legend, or Fact?

W. H. Auden in his poem Atlantis expresses in a couple of stanzas what I feel when I am in the grip of thinking about Atlantis:

The whole poem is here and is somewhat bitter:

http://www.poemhunter.com/...

but the verses that speak for me:

Should storms, as may well happen,
Drive you to anchor a week
In some old harbour-city
Of Ionia, then speak
With her witty scholars, men
Who have proved there cannot be
Such a place as Atlantis:
Learn their logic, but notice
How its subtlety betrays
Their enormous simple grief;
Thus they shall teach you the ways
To doubt that you may believe.

If, later, you run aground
Among the headlands of Thrace,
Where with torches all night long
A naked barbaric race
Leaps frenziedly to the sound
Of conch and dissonant gong:
On that stony savage shore
Strip off your clothes and dance, for
Unless you are capable
Of forgetting completely
About Atlantis, you will
Never finish your journey...

Assuming you beach at last
Near Atlantis, and begin
That terrible trek inland
Through squalid woods and frozen
Thundras where all are soon lost;
If, forsaken then, you stand,
Dismissal everywhere,
Stone and now, silence and air,
O remember the great dead
And honour the fate you are,
Traveling and tormented,
Dialectic and bizarre.

Stagger onward rejoicing;
And even then if, perhaps
Having actually got
To the last col, you collapse
With all Atlantis shining
Below you yet you cannot
Descend, you should still be proud
Even to have been allowed
Just to peep at Atlantis
In a poetic vision:
Give thanks and lie down in peace,
Having seen your salvation

and my own...

Atlantis

cfk 4-18-08

this enchanted mirror world
beneath the conscious sea
this Atlantis of legend
that foams and writhes
desiring to be set free
to rise again upon the earth
pillars healed, bright domes new
where ancient people primly smile
and proudly pace the marble halls
drinking wine with crystal lips
silhouettes on sun-washed walls

we plead with them to speak to us
show wisdom once so freely sung
that terrible beauty that burned
upon their lips that tried to tell
the past and future that circled round
like soaring dragons hissing fire
above the reddening, slavering waves
that dragged them downward to their doom
that stole their storied garden homes
from my world’s weaving loom

Atlantis - Facts And Fiction

http://www.kidzworld.com/...

The most believable theory about Atlantis came from the Greek archaeologist Angelos Galanopoulos in the late '60s. He theorized that around 1500 BCE, a massive eruption from a volcano ripped apart the island of Santorini in the Mediterranean and probably wiped out most of the civilization on the Greek islands and regions of Greece.

Angelos suggested this disaster is the one that sank Atlantis. If this is so, then he must have his dates wrong - or does he? He reasons that when the story was being translated, the Egyptian symbol for 100 (a coiled rope) was mistaken for the symbol for 1000 (a lotus flower). This changes the date from 9000 years ago to 900 years ago. The only thing wrong with this explanation is that Plato specifically said the city was near the Pillars of Hercules, which are thought to be nowhere near Greece.

Please watch this video:

http://www.metacafe.com/...

pictures of Santorini here:

http://volcano.und.edu/...

Thomas Cahill in Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea on page 11 mentions that Santorini (Thera) "may well have given rise to the legend of the lost 'continent' of Atlantis."

Wiki has a long discussion here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Atlantis (in Greek, Ἀτλαντὶς νῆσος, "island of Atlas") is the name of a legendary island first mentioned in Plato's dialogues Timaeus and Critias.

In Plato's account, Atlantis, lying "beyond the pillars of Heracles", was a naval power that conquered many parts of Western Europe and Africa 9,000 years before the time of Solon, or approximately 9500 BC. After a failed attempt to invade Athens, Atlantis sank into the ocean "in a single day and night of misfortune".

As a story embedded in Plato's dialogues, Atlantis is generally seen as a myth created by Plato to illustrate his political theories. Although the function of the story of Atlantis seems clear to most scholars, they dispute whether and how much Plato's account was inspired by older traditions. Some scholars argue Plato drew upon memories of past events such as the Thera eruption or the Trojan War, while others insist that he took inspiration from contemporary events like the destruction of Helike in 373 BC or the failed Athenian invasion of Sicily in 415–413 BC.

The possible existence of a genuine Atlantis was actively discussed throughout classical antiquity, but it was usually rejected and occasionally parodied by later authors. While little known during the Middle Ages, the story of Atlantis was rediscovered by Humanists in modern times. Plato's description inspired the utopian works of several Renaissance writers, like Francis Bacon's "New Atlantis".

Atlantis inspires today's literature, from science fiction to comic books and films, its name having become a byword for any and all supposed prehistoric but advanced (and lost) civilizations...

Many ancient philosophers viewed Atlantis as fiction, including (according to Strabo) Aristotle. However, in antiquity, there were also philosophers, geographers, and historians who believed that Atlantis was real.[7] For instance, the philosopher Crantor, a student of Plato's student Xenocrates, tried to find proof of Atlantis's existence. His work, a commentary on Plato's Timaeus, is lost, but another ancient historian, Proclus, reports that Crantor traveled to Egypt and actually found columns with the history of Atlantis written in hieroglyphic characters.[8] Plato never mentioned these columns. According to the Greek philosopher, Solon saw the Atlantis story on a different source that can be "taken to hand".

Another passage from Proclus' 5th century AD commentary on the Timaeus gives a description of the geography of Atlantis: "That an island of such nature and size once existed is evident from what is said by certain authors who investigated the things around the outer sea. For according to them, there were seven islands in that sea in their time, sacred to Persephone, and also three others of enormous size, one of which was sacred to Pluto, another to Ammon, and another one between them to Poseidon, the extent of which was a thousand stadia [200 km]; and the inhabitants of it—they add—preserved the remembrance from their ancestors of the immeasurably large island of Atlantis which had really existed there and which for many ages had reigned over all islands in the Atlantic sea and which itself had like-wise been sacred to Poseidon. Now these things Marcellus has written in his Aethiopica". Marcellus remains unidentified.

Other ancient historians and philosophers believing in the existence of Atlantis were Strabo and Posidonius...
A Hebrew treatise on computational astronomy dated to AD 1378/79, apparently a paraphrase of an unknown earlier Islamic work, alludes to the Atlantis myth in a discussion concerning the determination of zero points for the calculation of longitude:

Some say that they [the inhabited regions] begin at the beginning of the western ocean [the Atlantic] and beyond. For in the earliest times [literally: the first days] there was an island in the middle of the ocean. There were scholars there, who isolated themselves in [the pursuit of] philosophy. In their day, that was the [beginning for measuring] the longitude[s] of the inhabited world. Today, it has become [covered by the?] sea, and it is ten degrees into the sea; and they reckon the beginning of longitude from the beginning of the western sea.

Francis Bacon's 1627 novel The New Atlantis describes a utopian society, called Bensalem, located off the western coast of America. A character in the novel gives a history of Atlantis that is similar to Plato's and places Atlantis in America. It is not clear whether Bacon means North or South America.

Isaac Newton's 1728 novel The Chronology of the Ancient Kingdoms Amended studies a variety of Mythological Links to Atlantis.

In middle and late 19th century, several renowned Mesoamerican scholars, starting with Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg, and including Edward Herbert Thompson and Augustus Le Plongeon proposed that Atlantis was somehow related to Mayan and Aztec culture...

Since Donnelly's day, there have been dozens – perhaps hundreds – of locations proposed for Atlantis, to the point where the name has become a generic term rather than referring to one specific (possibly even genuine) location. This is reflected in the fact that many proposed sites are not within the Atlantic at all. Some are scholarly or archaeological hypotheses, while others have been made by psychic or other pseudoscientific means. Many of the proposed sites share some of the characteristics of the Atlantis story (water, catastrophic end, relevant time period), but none has been proven conclusively to be a true historical Atlantis.

Most of the historically proposed locations are in or near the Mediterranean Sea—islands such as Sardinia, Crete and Santorini, Sicily, Cyprus, and Malta; land-based cities or states such as Troy, Tartessos, and Tantalus (in the province of Manisa), Turkey; and Israel-Sinai or Canaan. The massive Thera eruption, dated either to the 17th or the 16th century BC, caused a massive tsunami that experts hypothesise devastated the Minoan civilization on the nearby island of Crete, further leading some to believe that this may have been the catastrophe that inspired the story.

A. G. Galanopoulos argued that the time scale has been distorted by an error in translation, probably from Egyptian into Greek, which produced "thousands" instead of "hundreds"; this same error would rescale Plato's Kingdom of Atlantis to the size of Crete, while leaving the city the size of the crater on Thera. 900 years before Solon would be the 15th century BC.

Outside the Mediterranean
Locations as wide-ranging as Andalusia, Antarctica, Indonesia, underneath the Bermuda Triangle, and the Caribbean Sea have been proposed as the true site of Atlantis.

In the area of the Black Sea the following locations have been proposed: Bosporus and Ancomah (a legendary place near Trabzon). The nearby Sea of Azov was proposed as another site in 2003.

In Northern Europe, Sweden (by Olof Rudbeck in "Atland", 1672–1702), Ireland and the North Sea[23], as well as the Celtic Shelf have been proposed.

Areas in the Pacific and Indian Ocean have also been proposed including Indonesia, Malaysia or both (i.e. Sundaland) and stories of a lost continent off India named "Kumari Kandam" have drawn parallels to Atlantis.

So has the Yonaguni monument of Japan. Even Cuba and the Bahamas have been suggested. According to Ignatius L. Donnelly in his book Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, there is a connection between Atlantis and Aztlan (the ancestral home of the Aztecs). He claims that the Aztecs pointed east to the Caribbean as the former location of Aztlan.

The Canary Islands have also been identified as a possible location, west of the Straits of Gibraltar but in close proximity to the Mediterranean Sea. Various islands or island groups in the Atlantic were also identified as possible locations, notably the Azores, and even several Caribbean islands.

The submerged island of Spartel near the Strait of Gibraltar has also been suggested. Popular culture increasingly places Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean and perpetuates the original Platonic ideal.

Interesting sites:
http://www.strangehorizons.com/...

Howard Nemerov writes a poem for the shuttle Atlantis:
http://spaceshuttle.wikispaces.com/...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...

http://theshadowlands.net/...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/...

The Lost City of Atlantis:
http://www.angelfire.com/...

http://www.andrewcollins.com/...

http://www.abc.net.au/...

http://bulldogs200567.wordpress.com/...

The TV series:
Stargate Atlantis:
http://www.scifi.com/...

In Atlantis, an expedition sets out to investigate the fabled lost city -- which is actually the home to a mystical alien race, the Ancients. Once a part of Earth, Atlantis is now located in the far-off Pegasus galaxy, and an all-volunteer force launches through the Stargate, knowing they can never return. American Dr. Elizabeth Weir (Torri Higginson) heads up an international team of that includes Canadian astrophysicist Rodney McKay (David Hewlett), Scottish physician Carson Beckett (Paul McGillion), and two U.S. military officers -- Major John Sheppard (Joe Flanigan) and Lt. Aiden Ford (Rainbow Sun Francks).

When they make it to Atlantis, they are introduced to Teyla Emmagan (Rachel Luttrell), an Athosian alien who warns the team of a new threat: the Wraith. Unlike the Goa'uld which seek to enslave humans in the SG-1 universe, the Wraith simply suck the life from humans on Atlantis. The team is on constant alert because of this new foe, and most of the season is spent battling the evil creatures. The Wraith also play a large part in the season finale, "The Siege," in which the Atlantis station comes under attack by their superior weapons. Slightly darker than its predecessor, Stargate: Atlantis is nevertheless an exciting sci-fi ride. Christina Urban, Barnes & Noble

more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...

The only book of those listed below that I have read is the one by Collins.  I found it very fascinating.

Long ago, I read two books by Marian Zimmer Bradley about Atlantis, but the book below is not them, I don’t think.  If it is, then I really liked it.  Changing titles, adding two books into one always confuses me if that is what happened.

But of all the hundreds of books on the topic, I did pick out some that sounded interesting.  Let us know if you have read any of them and what you think, please.

Gateway to Atlantis: The Search for the Source of a Lost Civilization by Andrew Collins, David M. Rohl, David Rohl (Introduction)

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

For two millennia the fate of Atlantis has fascinated philosophers, classicists, and explorers. They have debated its reality, they have consigned it to mythology, they have searched in vain for the kingdom behind the legend. Historian Andrew Collins has done more. In addition to meticulously examining centuries of literature on Atlantis, he has traveled oceans gathering evidence to support his conclusion that not only did Atlantis exist but remnants of the ancient empire survive today.

Collins's quest for Atlantis begins with a trail of clues left by Plato, and his journey takes him far beyond Crete and the Mediterranean, where scholars in recent times have placed the island kingdom. Collins finds signposts among the mummies in Egypt, in the wreckage of Roman vessels off the coasts of South and Central America, and in the African features of great stone heads in Mexico. His final destination has roused controversy among the experts, but he may indeed have found the land that history lost.

Fall of Atlantis by Marion Zimmer Bradley, Timothy JR Bradley

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis
A wounded Atlantean prince ... a deadly battle between Dark and Light ... and the sisters Deoris and Domaris, whose lives are changed utterly by the magic involving them. These are the elements of The Fall of Atlantis, Marion Zimmer Bradley's epic fantasy about that ancient and legendary realm. On one side stand the Priests of the White Robe, guardians of powerful natural forces which could threaten the world if misused.

Ranged against them are the Black Robes, sorcerers who secretly practice their dark arts in the labyrinthine caves beneath the very Temple of Light. Caught between are Domaris and Deoris, daughters of the Arch-priest Talkannon, trapped in a web of deadly sorcery -- the same forbidden sorcery that could bring about The Fall of Atlantis
Ancestors of Avalon sequel

Atlantis by Shirley Andrews

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

The legend of lost Atlantis turns to fact as Shirley Andrews correlates a wealth of information from more than 100 sources to describe the country and its inhabitants. Follow its history from beginning to end and see a portrait of Atlantean society: its religion, architecture, art, medicine, and life style. Learn what happened to the survivors of Atlantis, where they migrated, and how they made their mark on cultures the world over.

Atlantis by David Gibbins

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

From an extraordinary discovery in a remote desert oasis to a desperate race against time in the ocean depths, a team of adventurers is about to find the truth behind the most baffling legend in history...

Marine archaeologist Jack Howard has stumbled upon the keys to an ancient puzzle. With a crack team of scientific experts and ex–Special Forces commandos, he is heading for what he believes could be the greatest archaeological find of all time—the site of fabled Atlantis—while a ruthless adversary watches his every move and prepares to strike.

But neither of them could have imagined what awaits them in the murky depths. Not only a shocking truth about a lost world, but an explosive secret that could have devastating consequences today. Jack is determined to stop the legacy of Atlantis from falling into the wrong hands, whatever the cost. But first he must do battle to prevent a global catastrophe.

Atlantis Found (A Dirk Pitt Adventure) by Clive Cussler

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

Dirk Pitt discovers Atlantis, in a breathtaking novel from the grand master of adventure fiction.
Clive Cussler has long since proven himself one of America's most popular authors--a master of intricate, audacious plotting and "vibrant, rollicking narrative" (Chicago Tribune). But Atlantis Found may be his most audacious novel of all.

September l858: An Antarctic whaler stumbles upon an aged wreck, its grisly frozen crew guarding crates of odd antiquities--and a skull carved from black obsidian.
March 200l: A team of anthropologists gazes in awe at a wall of strange inscriptions, moments before a blast seals them deep within the Colorado rock.

April 200l: A research ship manned by Dirk Pitt and members of the U.S. National Underwater and Marine Agency is set upon and nearly sunk by an impossibility--a vessel that should have died fifty-six years before.

Pitt knows that somehow all these incidents are connected, and his investigations soon land him deep into an ancient mystery with very modern consequences, up against a diabolical enemy unlike any he has ever known, and racing to save not only his own life but the future of the world itself.

The trap is set. The clock is ticking. And only one man stands between earth and Armageddon. . . .
Filled with dazzling suspense and astonishing set pieces, this is Clive Cussler's greatest adventure novel yet.

The Atlantis Dialogue: Plato's Original Story of the Lost City, Continent, Empire, Civilization by Plato, Aaron Shepard (Editor), B. Jowett (Translator)

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Midwest Book Review

An easy read, The Atlantis Dialogue provides a good starting point for anyone wanting to learn more about the origins of the Atlantis myth.

Atlantis by Michael Martin

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Children's Literature

The legend of the vanished city of Atlantis has a long history. First told by Plato around 360 BCE, the story has fascinated people ever since. Some doubt that Atlantis existed at all; others believe it may have been a fabulous city that was destroyed by a flood, a tidal wave or an earthquake. If it did exist, where might Atlantis have been? Author Martin explores several theories that have been proposed over the years, including that Atlantis was the island of Santorini (or Santorinas), the Azores, the Canary Islands, and Indonesia.

One theory is that Plato was thinking of the ancient Minoan civilization of Crete and this story was somehow combined with the mighty eruption of the volcano on Santorini around 1600 BCE. Theories have been offered by psychics and archaeologists, with the most recent investigations focusing on square-shaped rocks found near Bimini Island in the Caribbean. Martin makes clear that many scientists are dubious about the idea that Atlantis was an actual place. Rather, Atlantis remains a mystery and was most probably simply intended by Plato as a cautionary fable. This volume is illustrated with color photos and imaginative paintings.

Atlantis Encyclopedia by Frank Joseph, Brad Steiger (Foreword by)

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

Joseph, editor-in-chief of Ancient American, states in his introduction that his encyclopedia does not set out to prove the existence of Atlantis but the facts he provides are evidence of something factual behind the legend. Whatever the merits of that claim, Joseph has certainly gathered an impressive number of relevant facts and figures about geology, astronomy, oceanography, and especially folklore traditions throughout the world concerning the loss of an ancestral island of great splendor. Annotation ©2004 Book News, Inc., Portland, OR

Lost Continents: The Atlantis Theme in History, Science, and Literature by L. Sprague de Camp, Camp

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

Leading authority examines facts and fancies behind the Atlantis theme in history, science, and literature. Sources include Plato, Thomas More, K. T. Frost, and many other citations, both famous and lesser-known. Related legends are also recounted and refuted, and reports document attempts to prove the continent's existence, including accounts of actual expeditions.

Survivors of Atlantis: Their Impact on World Culture by Frank Joseph

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

Archaeologists have long puzzled over evidence suggesting sophisticated copper mining activities in the Great Lakes area some 5,000 years ago. Menomonie Indian tradition speaks of fair skinned mariners from the past who came to "dig out the shiny bones" of the Earth Mother. In this sequel to The Destruction of Atlantis, Frank Joseph contends that the mariners described by the North American Menomonie Indians were Atlanteans.

The Road to Ubar: Finding the Atlantis of the Sands by Nicholas Clapp, Harry Foster (Editor)

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...

Synopsis

The discovery of Ubar -- a lost city of ancient Arabia (in Oman)-- was a major archaeological find. The story of the discovery, as told by the man who led the search, is a literary adventure tale of old-world exploration. Filmmaker Nicholas Clapp, while documenting the rewilding of three Arabian oryxes, falls so in love with their native land that he is determined to find a reason to return. He grows obsessed with the long-lost city of Ubar.

In The Road to Ubar Clapp writes of his long effort to find the city that, according to legend, was an ancient frankincense marketplace buried in sand hundreds of years ago by Allah's wrath. At the heart of Clapp's search is the question of whether and how this ubiquitous myth intersects with history. Luckily for Clapp, for the resulting "Nova" documentary, and for this book, history rears its stony head, and the foundations of the city are uncovered in what would become one of the most significant archaeological discoveries of the century.

What storied world fascinates you?  What gardens of thought does it display?

What lands would you like to walk through a gate and become a part of?  It is your turn to speak in comments.

plf515 has a wonderful book diary on Fridays and all day.

sarahnity’s list of Dkos authors has grown:

http://www.dailykos.com/...

plus Jennifer Weiner's new one...Certain Girls

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