Daily Kos

Tag: Roman Catholic Church

Has the Catholic Church signaled that Obama is acceptable?

Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:37:17 AM PDT

In my dailykos reading yesterday I encountered a diary that should not have been overlooked.  By 8ackgr0und N015e, it was entitled The Audacity of the Pope: A Message of Hope!. The diarist does a detailed examination of the encyclical the Pope issued for his pastoral visit to the United States, including a link to a video of the Pope reading his message, a message repeated in the homily at Nationals' Stadium in DC.   And that got me thinking. Join me below the fold for the results of my cogitation.

Pelosi, At Papal Mass, Demonstrates Pro-Choice Politicians Not Prohibited From Receiving Communion

Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 02:08:52 PM PDT

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't prevent pro-choice politicians from receiving communion:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said she felt very comfortable taking Communion during the Mass celebrated by Pope Benedict XVI, who has said supporters of abortion rights should not receive Communion.

"Communion is the body of the people of the church coming together," Pelosi said at her weekly news conference after returning from the Mass. "I feel very much a part of that."

The Speaker was effusive about the service, reading a passage from the pope’s sermon and praising his "beautiful message of hope."

Staffers said Pelosi received Communion during the service, but not from the pope himself.

She didn't receive communion today from the Pope, but she has from a pope in the past, as she explained this morning in her weekly press conference:

[W]hen His Holiness, the Holy Father, John Paul II, came to San Francisco, I had the privilege of meeting him when he landed there and also receiving communion from him at the stadium where he performed a mass.  Same thing, tens of thousands of people.  So, I mean, that has sustained me for such a long time

Why is there a persistent belief among many that the Roman Catholic Church denies Communion to people—especially American politicians who are pro-choice and members of the Democratic party—who don't adhere to every tenet of Church doctrine?  

Because many reporters are lazy and don't bother to figure out the facts.  Four years ago American Bishops voted on a proposal to deny communion to politicians, and the proposal was rejected 183-6.  And why has the issue come up?  Because conservative political activists who are also Catholic have tried to make it an issue.  For them, Church doctrine is only relevant on issues of the crotch.  The Just War doctrine, economic justice, capital punishment, none of those things matter.  No, the only things that matter for them are abortion, homosexuality and human conception.  And they're trying to use the Church for their partisan political goals.  And as seen by idiotic questions from reporters like this, they're at least succeeding with some dimwitted media types.  

There are probably doctrinal debates on why the Church shouldn't forbid communion to only some but not all of the American Catholic politicians who selectively reject as public policy aspects of the Catholic "Culture of Life."  There are certain, however, dangers to the health of the American congregations if Priests started withholding communion.  American Catholics reject much of Church doctrine.  For instance, I've only met one person who admitted to using the rhythm method and adhering to the Church's prohibition on contraception.  53% consider themselves pro-choice.  53% support physician-assisted suicide.  61% believe abortions should be legal.  70% say the pronouncements of Bishops are not important in determining their vote.  71% support the death penalty.  72% support stem cell research.  And a whopping 78% oppose denying communion to politicians who support abortion rights.

White Catholic voters are one of the key swing constituencies in a general election.  Most polls show White Catholics leaning quite strongly toward Democrats for this November's election.  Conservatives would love to reverse that, and to permanently peel off a lot of those voters on the abortion issue.  But the Church will be very reluctant to oblige them by withholding communion to pro-choice politicians and thereby alienating 78% of American Catholics.  

Bush: America's First Catholic President? (?!)

Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:03:00 AM PDT

From yesterday's White House press briefing:

Q: ...It's been suggested that the President, who has met so often with Catholic leaders and reached out so aggressively to Catholic groups, and whose social views very closely reflect Catholic Orthodoxy, is actually America's first Catholic President. What do you think of that? (Laughter.)

MS. PERINO: He's also been called America's -- or, the first Jewish President, is what the Israelis call him, too.

The foolish questioner who posed that query must figure that John Kennedy really wasn't Catholic, because he didn't take his orders from the Vatican, and that maybe Bush does?  Hmmm, let's think about that.  

Like most American Catholics, I don't attend Mass very often.  But I do know that Catholic doctrine places a high priority on reducing poverty and suffering.  There's a great emphasis on economic and social justice.  The Church doesn't advocate pacifism, but instead, building on the teachings of Thomas Aquinas and others, advocates the doctrine of Just War.  The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church even lays out the legitimate reasons for a just war:

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

- there must be serious prospects of success;

- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

Also, the Church opposes capital punishment:

Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."

Obviously the questioner didn't know much about Catholic doctrine, because it's absurd to think of George W Bush's actions as President as embodying Church teachings on matters of social or economic justice, warfare or capital punishment.  So was questioner maybe thinking about George W Bush as "Catholic" in the sense of copying the interrogation  practices of one of the darker moments of Catholicism, the Spanish Inquisition?

The Washington debate over the simulated-drowning technique may be new, but the practice is not. It predates the Inquisition and has been used, off and on, around the world ever since.

Its use was first documented in the 14th century, according to Ed Peters, a historian at the University of Pennsylvania. It was known variously as "water torture," the "water cure" or tormenta de toca — a phrase that refers to the thin piece of cloth placed over the victim's mouth...

"The patient strangled and gasped and suffocated and, at intervals, the toca was withdrawn and he was adjured to tell the truth. The severity of the infliction was measured by the number of jars [of water] consumed, sometimes reaching to six or eight," writes Henry Charles Lea in A History of the Inquisition of Spain.

"The thing you could not do in torture was injure the body or cause death," Peters says. That was — and still is — what makes waterboarding such an attractive interrogation technique, he says: It causes great physical and mental suffering, yet leaves no marks on the body.

In some matters, the Church remains in conflict with modernity.  The Church adopted to the teachings of Darwin, for instance, and does not advocate a literal interpretation of the text of the Bible.  However, matters of human sexuality and conception place the Church at odds with modern science, many philosophical beliefs, social attitudes, and even the practices and beliefs of the majority of American Catholics.  (But just to be clear, the Church never adopted a policy of denying communion to Catholic politicians who espouse reproductive rights; in fact, it rejected such policies by a vote of 183-6.)

One area where the Church has definitely changed its practices is on the subject of torture.  Again, from the Cathechism:

Kidnapping and hostage taking bring on a reign of terror; by means of threats they subject their victims to intolerable pressures. They are morally wrong. Terrorism threatens, wounds, and kills indiscriminately; it is gravely against justice and charity. Torture which uses physical or moral violence to extract confessions, punish the guilty, frighten opponents, or satisfy hatred is contrary to respect for the person and for human dignity. Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.

It's hard to see how George W. Bush could be seen as America's first Catholic President.  But with his love of torture as official American policy, one might see him as America's first Medieval President.  

UK priest and Catholic Worker in prison for arms protest

Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:13:16 AM PDT

A Catholic priest and a member of London's Catholic worker movement were sentenced to days in prison for a protest at one of the world's largest arms fair. They refused to pay the fine involved.

They were charge with using fake blood to depict their opposition to the event.

The full story can be found here.

Polish priest/philosopher wins Templeton Prize for dialogue between science and religion

Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 09:02:13 AM PDT

I've stated that I enjoy most posts on DailyKos and find participants less likely to indulge in mindless Catholic-bashing than I find on other sites. For the record, I am a Catholic Obama supporter, and I find most welcoming here. However the topic of science and religion usually brings forth some uninformed invective.

I'll address evolution and the Catholic Church below, but here's the Catholic priest/philosopher wins Templeton Prize on dialogue between science and religion.

Losin’ My Religion

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:07:22 PM PDT

I haven’t set foot in a Catholic church since we buried my Mom in August, 2005.  It hasn’t been my faith since I was 20, 38 years ago.

I began questioning church doctrine at 14, when I realized women had second class status—we were supposed to be nuns, virgin spinsters or wives and mothers. We couldn’t be priests. If we married, we were expected to bear as many children as God chose to send us, because the only birth control permitted was Natural Family Planning aka the "rhythm method" aka "Vatican Roulette. It wasn’t very reliable in its early form (still has a lot of issues) and it required abstaining from sex for about ¼ of the month, if not longer—and you could pretty much hang it up if your cycle was irregular.  I knew a lot of families with six to ten children back then. Any other form of birth control was out. Sex outside of marriage was a sin. Sex within marriage was acceptable, but somehow marriage wasn’t a good as celibacy

El Salvador: The Ongoing War Against Women

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 10:00:28 AM PDT

In 1998, El Salvador became one of three Latin-American countries where abortion is illegal with no exceptions, along with Chile and Nicaragua.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...

Ah, the dubious legacy of our CIA and its doctrine of assassination, Ronald Reagan who never saw a dictator he couldn’t love, the heavy-handed hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church...

The Gall of Galileo

Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 09:51:57 AM PDT

POPE CANCELS SPEECH AFTER PROTEST AT UNIVERSITY

January 16, 2008

ROME — Pope Benedict XVI, in a rare papal acquiescence to protest, has canceled a speech at the prestigious Sapienza University here amid opposition by professors and students who say he is hostile to science.

The pope’s speech at the university, which was founded by Pope Boniface VIII in 1303 and is now public, was to mark the start of the academic year. But professors and students objected, citing specifically a speech that Benedict gave in 1990, when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, on Galileo, condemned by the Inquisition in the early 1600s for arguing that the Earth revolved around the Sun.

In that speech, Cardinal Ratzinger, who would become pope in 2005, quoted the Austrian philosopher Paul Feyerabend as saying: "The church at the time was much more faithful to reason than Galileo himself, and also took into consideration the ethical and social consequences of Galileo’s doctrine. Its verdict against Galileo was rational and just."

Memo from the Pope to Gino:

Hold off on writing that excommunication of Nicholas Sarkozy.  We'll force that lecherous little Frog to go back to his first wife, but it can wait 'til next week.

Do Cons Love Torture?

Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:52:50 AM PDT

Cons as in Conservatives, a strange amalgam of strictured Roman Catholics and pompous Southern Baptists and other Fundamentalist Protestants? Cons as in NeoCons, leaning more to the Judeo side of the Judeo-Christian construct, perchance with ties to AIPAC and dreams of Israeli Empire?

Torture as in waterboarding, simulated murder and rape of loved ones or actual rape and murder of loved ones, the classic scenes of Abu Ghraib, burning with cigarettes, branding with red hot coathangers–part and parcel of loving the sanctity of the fetus–and the spectacle of the abortive coathanger?

NYT on "The Conservatives' Pope"

Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 09:31:43 AM PDT

I am writing this diary essentially to get Devilstower's attention, because his diary of yesterday has probably died. This is why it has not been crossposted elsewhere.

DT wrote in his post that the Catholic Church having the "means of salvation" and the other churches being merely "ecclesial communities" means that non-Catholic Christians are going to hell. I wrote that this didn't make sense to me, because in my limited understanding faith in JC is the source of salvation, and the means of salvation above all others. (As anyone who knows me, or looks at my blogroll, knows, I don't really have a dog in this...) The NYT today wrote about  this document today. I will discuss the two significant paragraphs on the flip.

Sex, Republicans and the Religious Right

Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 10:28:07 AM PDT

          From the Boston Globe

RECENTLY, both the Fox and CBS television networks announced that they would not air a Trojan condom ad that focuses on responsible condom use...   From "Temptation Island" and the "Victoria's Secret Fashion Show" to commercials about Viagra, both major networks have taken sex all the way to the bank.
...Fox refused to air the ad, which portrays a pig turning into a man once he buys a condom, on the grounds that "contraceptive advertising must stress health-related uses rather than the prevention of pregnancy."

Do you suppose the Vatican and TGDSOBGWB had any influence on this decision by two major networks

Cheney Theatens, Pope Warns, Tarzan Strong

Sat May 12, 2007 at 11:25:07 AM PDT

Two good headlines: the first is about Cheney preparing for negotiations with Iranians by threatening them. How much to it cost to send two navy carrier strike groups to the Gulf just to show the conservative talk radio audience that negotiating with terrorists is not necessarily a sign of Bush administration weakness?
(continued)

How can Giuliani receive Communion?!?

Fri May 11, 2007 at 02:41:06 PM PDT

Married three times, committed adultery, and today publicly reasserts his support of abortion rights.

I will watch to see if Giuliani ever approaches the altar to receive Communion and is then turned away.

( NB:  I am Catholic and I firmly believe that Giuliani should be allowed Communion. )

After the disgusting behavior by certain right-wing Catholic authorities towards Senator Kerry in 2004, I will be most curious to see if Giuliani receives the same treatment from that bunch.

Poll

Will the Catholic right hard-liners come down as hard on Giuliani as they did on Kerry?

1%1 votes
98%55 votes

| 56 votes | Vote | Results

Driving the Wedge--Excommunicate Rudy

Thu May 10, 2007 at 11:59:36 AM PDT

One of the sad realities over the last couple presidential election cycles was watching the Catholic Church and fellow Catholics be manipulated by the Republican Party.

In the past, Catholics traditionally voted in a higher percentage for Democratic candidates.  There are a variety of reasons for this.  For one, the Catholic Church of my childhood was a Church that believed in social justice.  The Church is also emphatically opposed to capital punishment.  And, of course, the only Catholic ever elected to office was John F. Kennedy.

Over time, things began to change as the Republican Party started to court the Catholic vote and as the Religious Right, most notably Pat Robertson, started attempting to start a dialogue with Catholics, a dialogue focused almost entirely on a single issue-abortion.


::

Advertise on the Liberal Blog Advertising Network.

Hate ads? Subscribe.






Support Bloggers' Rights!
Support Bloggers' Rights!


On Mothertalkers:

Does Your School Have a Dress Code?

"Eternal is the right frame of mind for making food for a family"

Mothers Behind Bars -- With Their Babies?

Hump Day Open Thread

Over 100 College Presidents call for Alcohol Age to be Reconsidered.

On Street Prophets:

John McCain Whispers Sweet Nothings To Apocalypticists

Wednesday Substitute Coffee Hour!

News from the 'Net

The Prayer Closet, a daily prayer request thread

Oh No! We need Coffee! Coffee Hour/Open Thread