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View Diary: A fetus is not a person if it costs us money, says Catholic Church (238 comments)

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  •  Your title is not the position of the Roman (7+ / 0-)

    Catholic Church.  While I have fundamental disagreements with the Catholic Church over their view of the role of women in the Church and marriage equality, and while I would oppose them in the politcial arena, this is not well done.  It's a misreprenetation of their view, a "gotcha" game, and I know you can do better.  

    They are wrong for real reasons, and those reasons should be pointed out.

    Some of the comments border on anti-Catholicism, and  I'm uncomfortable with that.

    Many Catholics vote for Democrats and pick and choose doctrine.  This post has to be very offputting to them, and it achieves very little.  

    You can do better.  

    When a women dies in Ireland because a Catholic hospital places a dead fetus over a live woman, it exposes the moral atrocity of their views.    

    The reality of sexism and homophobia is bad enough without this.  

    I find their views to contradict the teachings of Christ.

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 12:03:22 PM PST

    •  What should be offputting to them (18+ / 0-)

      is the church they belong to. What the church does matters more than what they say is their belief, and the diary is about what they're doing. They can protest all they want about their church and their priest and bash bishops but they support the structure, with their beliefs and with their money in the plate. They contribute to that much vaunted billion strong monolith.

      “Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow morning: 'More guns,' you’ll claim, 'are the NRA’s answer to everything!'" -- Wayne LaPierre

      by tytalus on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 12:11:38 PM PST

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    •  What Misrepresentation? (27+ / 0-)

      In a world where the Church took the position that it has to conduct its operations in accordance with the civil law both when that law does and does not conveniently dovetail with Church doctrine, then this sort of thing would be be an unfair "gotcha" story.

      In the actual real world, where the Church whines and moans about the civil law when it doesn't like the results but is content to hide behind it when convenient, the calling-out is perfectly proper.

      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

      by stevemb on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 12:19:14 PM PST

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      •  When has the Church ever taken the position (0+ / 0-)

        that fetuses have identical legal rights to individuals? Or that the right to recover under the Colorado Wrongful Death Statute is based on individuals' moral status as human beings?

    •  Agreed. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP, Don midwest

      What one Catholic hospital does, though repugnant, doesn't represent the Church (though arguably equally repugnant).

      I would be very interested to know what Church officials have to say about this incident.  If they take the same hypocritical position I would not be shocked -- but as of this story, they haven't.

    •  I'm really sorry to offend anyone, (12+ / 0-)

      truly, but I AM anti-Catholicism. I am pretty much anti-ALL organized religions, but the Catholic church goes out of it's way to insert itself into what should be secular matters, through organizing and mucho money. I loathe the fundies almost as much, but the pedophilia thing kind of put the Catholic church over the top for me. TomP, I know many American Democrats are Catholic, and I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, and perhaps this post may be "off-putting to them", but should it not have been posted because of that? It is news, it is the truth, so it should be posted. And yes, I absolutely agree with you that their teachings contradict the teachings of Christ, which is basically the "religious" tenants I follow, without the help of any church.

      •  No you aren't sorry to offend anyone you intend to (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Van Buren

        I can find 1 million Catholics within a half hour of right here in one of the very most liberal Congressional districts in the good old USA and you want to insult every last one of them.  

        Religion motivated tens of millions of people to come to this country.  The principles of religious tolerance are integral to the 1st amendment.

        Religious intolerance is not cool whether it's directed against Catholics, Muslims, Jews or anyone else.  If people here directed the same level of vitriol at Jews as they do at Catholics this site would be closed down for anti-Semitism.

        Fine, you don't like the Church's interference on policy.  So make your arguments on policy not on your hatred of religion.

        •  It's such a damn shame (9+ / 0-)

          that people get offended when the hypocrisy of their preferred holy club gets called out. What a shame that they choose to identify themselves with their churches so much that they take offense on behalf of their church. Rather than consider why they choose to belong to such a repulsive institution.

          “Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow morning: 'More guns,' you’ll claim, 'are the NRA’s answer to everything!'" -- Wayne LaPierre

          by tytalus on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 01:02:49 PM PST

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          •  It's such a damn shame (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            That religious bigotry continues as it always has.  Nothing new under the sun.   Nothing new at all.  Certainly NOTHING remotely connected with the word "progressive".   Oh, no.  Just as old, and reactionary, as every religious war fought by every hater from the Crusades to the Holocaust to 9/11.  Nothing easier than hating people for the "repulsive institution" they claim.  Nothing new at all.  

            I've been a Democrat for 40 years and a Catholic for 62 years and I probably could trace it in my family back 1000 years.  

            Just between the time I last posted and now my 91 year old mom called to tell me that her 88 year old brother is in the hospital and she's going to call our cousin and priest to visit as soon as possible and please be sure I've got his cell phone number because I will need it if she is ill, etc. Yes, mom, you've told me that 1000 times.

            With some of us it is who we are every day of lives, it is bone deep in our culture and in our identity.   For better or worse, it defines who we are.  

            You can do your best to drive the tens of millions who call the Catholic religion their faith out of the Democratic Party and you will lose every national election from here to eternity.

            I don't know why this site has so jumped the shark on its antipathy towards Catholics but it certainly has nothing to do with the mission to elect more and better Democrats.  

    •  Anti-Catholicism is getting out of hand here (0+ / 0-)

      Some here seem to think they've discovered some new bright and shiny thing, but it's as old as the religious wars in Europe and it is the same reason so many of our ancestors and certainly mine came to this country in the first place to get away from religious intolerance.  

    •  Sorry Tom... (15+ / 0-)

      You are wrong.  The Catholic Church, bought the hospital and the insurance.  If the Catholic Church states that they can deny birth control for ANY business based upon 'conscience' where any 'Catholic' is part of the ownership stream, then they have to be held to the same account here.  No dice.

      'Goodwill' between the GOP and the President is as abundant as unicorn farts - Me'

      by RichM on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 12:37:43 PM PST

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    •  I'm Anti-Catholicism (5+ / 0-)

      Catholicism isn't what Catholics say, it's what they do. Especially what the autocratic rules of the Catholic Church do.

      What do they do? They rape children and cover it up - for centuries. They take money to enrich themselves while the poor - Catholics and otherwise - starve and fester. They devalue women in contraception, abortion and wherever else they can. And then there's all kinds of other uptight moralizing. All in a free ride that turns the "no law respecting an establishment of religion" upside down, while I pay its bills for operating in this expensive civilization.

      I'm anti all that. All that is Catholicism today (and for a long time). I'm anti-Catholicism.

      If you're uncomfortable with that, you should change Catholicism, probably by changing the church. You will find it harder to change me.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 06:37:24 PM PST

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