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View Diary: Kos - I respectfully disagree (270 comments)

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  •  I don't think anyone is saying... (13+ / 0-)

    ...chemical weapons aren't abhorrent.  I think the point some are trying to make is that all warfare is abhorrent.  Chemical weapons are scary, but their only scary to the living.  Whether they were killed by artillery shell, bayonet or Sarin the dead are still dead and they little care how it happened.  

    I think the point that was trying to be made is that we've stood around and twiddled our thumbs while 10's of thousands were killed by conventional means but now that a few thousand have been killed by other means the gloves come off? What makes those few thousand lives more important than the 10's of thousands that died before them?

    Shelling civilian populations because they don't agree with the way you are governing, or have a different ethnic background, or a different religious view are just as cowardly as gassing them.  

    The Assad regime is no more evil as a result of the gassing than they were before.  Is it our place to end it, I think that's the question many including the US government are struggling with right now.

    •  No they are no more abhorrent now (8+ / 0-)

      than before. The blood of over 100k civilian deaths is on Assad's hands after all, but he has shown the full face of his lack of humanity.

      The questions of chemical weapons are these, do we ignore it's use? Does it now become an acceptable form of warfare? Where do we stand on the escalation of deadly weapons?

      President Obama has said that the use of chemical weapons is the crossing of a line and many of our allies agree. I agree.

      I do not believe that a regime should be allowed to use them on their own people or another's without consequence because it will become the norm.

      I am uncertain on what that consequence should be or how it should be meted out. That, I believe is the debate that should be taken up with our Congress and citizens and our allies.

      "Humidity built the snowman. Sunshine brought him down" John Prine

      by high uintas on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 04:57:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And how many civilians have we murdered? (10+ / 0-)

        In Iraq and Afghanistan, why don't you go tally up the people we killed, before we go around telling other people what to do? America's got far too much blood on its hands to judge anybody.

        First they came for the farm workers, and I said nothing.

        by Hannibal on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 06:03:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And didn't many if not most on this site... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence, Hannibal

          ...sound off in protest to going to war on Iraq knowing that many civilians would pay the ultimate price for the need of our war industries need for new frontier to test newest products and future generals to test their metal in actual combat ( this being the consequence of civilian leadership decision-making where generals have little swag).  As well, how long does the US wait before taking action (boots on the ground)? How many Jews murdered before we entered WWII? What about Bosnia? I do agree war is not the answer but sometimes I think we are a victim of our collective conscience swayed by our democratic process altered by "captains of industry".  If it were only that simple...actually I think it is that simple it's just that the collective is being overcome by the individual.  Just saying/IMHO. Peace Out!

          Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

          by kalihikane on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 10:34:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I don't disagree (5+ / 0-)

        that there should be a consequence.  I just feels, at least to me, that we are rushing to impose consequence.  We're getting comments from Hagel and the military that we are ready to go.  We're hearing from Kerry, Biden, and the Pres. that there is no doubt the Assad regime is responsible even though UN Weapons inspectors are still on the ground and haven't concluded their investigation.  

        Then, even if it is true that the Assad regime is to blame, its just accepted that military force is the form that the consequence will take.  How much force, how focused, against whom, how much blood and treasure to make the point?

        What of the risks, will Iran make good on it's threats, will Russia? Whats our goal? I've heard its not regime change, so whats to stop a "punished" Assad from lashing out either through attacks on our allies or through terrorism?  Will the point be worth the future consequence?

        •  All good questions (5+ / 0-)

          This is why I said that there needs to be considerable debate about this. IMO if we do act it has to be with conscensis. I mean Congress, the Executive and our allies.

          The rest of the world needs to think very seriously about this because it just can't go without answer. This can't become an acceptable way to wage war.

          Gawd, to think that there ever can be an "acceptable" war is awful! But chemical weapons are beyond the pale.

          "Humidity built the snowman. Sunshine brought him down" John Prine

          by high uintas on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 07:47:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Even when the prescribed consequences, which (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        worldlotus

        will consist of attacks on Syrian military units or equipment, may weaken Assad and eventually may lead to these same chemical weapons coming into the hands of rebels, among which are Al Qaeda and a number of other groups who have no love for America (or Israel)?

        I do not believe that a regime should be allowed to use them on their own people or another's without consequence because it will become the norm.

        I am uncertain on what that consequence should be or how it should be meted out. That, I believe is the debate that should be taken up with our Congress and citizens and our allies.

        I would hope we'd at least wait for the UN inspectors' reports and some sort of relative certainty about the situation. Instead, the USA is moving destroyers into position and Cameron is calling Parliament into session.  It appears everyone's mind is made up, regardless of the UN inspectors.

        Doesn't that sound familiar?

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 10:40:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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