NPR Iowa radio debate.
First Topic:
Iran and the lessons of Iraq.
Bush has said the NIE does nothing to affect his concern about Iran and that nothing has changed.
Clinton: Completely disagree with Bush.
Gravel: Iran is not a problem, hasn't been, never will be. Intelligence community shows there's no information to warrant what the president has been saying.
Obama: Iran continues to be a threat in the region. Still funding terrorist groups. Bush continues to not let facts get in the way of his assessment.
Dodd: Compelling case that diplomatic route should be pursued. Unilateral sanctions will fail. Our ability to build international support compromised by our presence in Iraq.
Biden: Anybody who thinks that pressure brought this about is wrong. Bush has undermined our influence in the region. He's caused oil to go up because of his threat of war. Iran not a nuclear threat to the US and should be dealt with directly -- but who is going to trust us?
Edwards: Bush & neocons have been on a march to war since the "axis of evil speech." Senate had a responsibility to stand up to him. Eerily similar to Iraq.
Kucinich: I warned that there was no evidence. Bush convinced some of my colleagues to vote for the war, and has gotten Clinton, Obama, and Edwards to say "all options are on the table." We need a president who was right the first time.
Second question: is the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization?
Clinton: Many of us believe that they are proliferators of mass destruction. Since the bill was passed, they've reduced the weapons shipped into Iraq.
Edwards: Clinton and I have a strong disagreement. Bush and Cheney have been rattling saber. Everyone would admit that Iran was an issue, but we needed to stand up.
Obama: I said we should keep options on table if Iran was developing nuclear weapons. I opposed this saber rattling.
Kucinich: When people say all options are on the table, they encouraged Bush. I'm the only one who opposed this mindset every time.
Dodd: Vote on Kyl-Lieberman was important. It specifically eliminated any option except a military one, and that vote demonstrated leadership.
Clinton: I voted for it along with some strong opponents of using force. I wouldn't have voted that way if I thought it was a pretext for action. Naming the IRG a terrorist group was an important "stick."
(NPR plays Lieberman quote on striking bases in Iran.)
Edwards: Declaring a state group a terrorist organization is not diplomacy. Clinton agrees with Bush's terminology on GWOT and on IRG as terrorists.
Clinton: These are outlandish political charges. Designating the IRG as terrorist has caused some changes in their behavior. They were supplying weapons that killed Americans. Kyl-Lieberman had a positive effect.
Gravel: There is no evidence. They've produced none. The "terrorist groups" Iran is supporting are elected organizations. What's wrong with that?
Biden: The vote was self-defeating. Oil prices jumped $18 as soon as the vote was made and many of our friends had to distance themselves from us. There is no evidence this caused any change in the IRG.
Obama: The resolution also suggested we should structure in Iraq to oppose Iran. We helped put in place a government in Iraq we knew had connections with Iran.
Edwards: There is only one candidate who voted for this resolution, which was just what Bush and Cheney wanted. We need to work with allies for "sticks and carrots" and give the Iranian people a path.
Clinton: IRG controlled directly by religious leaders. Sanctions give us an advantage going into diplomatic actions. None of us advocating a rush to war. I was first to speak in Senate against going to war in Iran.
Question 3: Clearly many Muslims hate the US and want to do us harm. Why?
Biden: I'm not opposing a rush to war. I'm opposing war. The reason we're disliked so much is because we're trusted so little. Muslims supported us in Afghanistan.
Edwards: (question expanded to "is the US to pro-Israel") The bullying behavior of Bush is the problem. Most important thing for America is to demonstrate that we have responsibilities to humanity, not just ourselves.
Obama: They hear Republican candidates saying "they are coming here to try to kill you." Close Gitmo. Restore Habeas. We can show moderates we are willing to listen.
Dodd: We've had a vacuum in our relationship with the Muslim world. This administration hasn't been engaged, hasn't been an honest broker for I/P.
Kucinich: No more unilateralism. I'm the only one who voted 100% against Iraq and funding Iraq. Keep security of all parties protected.
Question: American diplomatic history books recount Monroe Doctrine, and will feature the Bush Doctrine. What will be your doctrine?
Clinton: A doctrine of restoring relationships and coming to agreements. US not afraid to cooperate.
Edwards: Longer term, visionary. What is it that America does over the long term to strengthen our leadership and provide stability. Respect for other perspectives.
Biden: Clarity. Prevention not pre-emption. Reject Bush doctrine. Our role is to prevent crisis.
Obama: Not a doctrinaire doctrine. We have to view our security as part of a common security with other countries.
Second Topic: China
Question: Given China's size, manufacturing, military, etc. Who has more leverage -- China or the US?
Edwards: US has two long term challenges, terrorism and China. Bush has done nothing about China. We know little about what they're doing with their military, propping up bad regimes, polluting. They're growing, America is stronger, but we need to engage China.
Obama: Three issues: 1. Get our own fiscal house in order. 2. China making huge inroads in Africa while US is absent. 3. We don't negotiate well, they are competitors. We negotiation for Wall Street instead of Main Street. US still superpower, but need to think of 10-50 years from now.
Kucinich: Only one here who voted against China trade. We're borrowing money from China to pay for war in Iraq. We need to stop arms race, get them to transition our of nuclear and coal.
Clinton: We have more leverage, but we're not using it. Bush policies have handicapped us. Need a coherent strategic relationship, or China will have the leverage.
Question: If our balance of trade is upside down with China, why not put on a tarrif and keep the American people from buying cheap Chinese goods.
Biden: With WTO guidelines we could stop these products now. China isn't that great, has many people in poverty. We've yielded to corporate America and the Bush view of trade. Not willing to go to tarrifs, just enforce the law.
Dodd: Adversarial relationship. Slave labor. Not a competition. We need to enforce existing laws.
Question: How do we level the playing field?
Obama: Dodd and Biden had good point on laws. We're still treating them as if they were a poor country. Japan makes China follow their rules to get to their market. We haven't used the tools we have. US companies have moved there and are shipping here and are special interests.
Edwards: Corporate America driving this issue. Enforce laws that exist here and at WTO. Not being done because corporate America driving trade policy. No push to buy local. Will not buy Chinese toys for his kids.
Dodd (?): My toys are coming from Iowa. My kids are eating Iowa food.
Obama: We're not using the power that we have. US companies have moved to China and are shipping things back here to take advantage of low wages and weak environmental policy. Not every single trade policy should be based on what's good for corporations.
Gravel: China has only increased military 10%. Our rhetoric of "beggar thy neighbor" is shameful. American companies also dump things abroad.
Question: If we do what you've said, will Americans pay more?
Kucinich: Buy American or bye-bye America. (And guess friggin' what) I'm the only one up here who voted against China trade.
Obama: China will modify their behavior if we stand up to them.
Question: Chemicals in products cause cancer, birth defects, and we don't make manufacturers list ingredients. What will you change?
Clinton: We don't do enough to prevent dangerous products, either imports or domestic. We don't track exposures. Need tougher standards across the boards.
Dodd: 80% of food is imported, very little labeling.
(break -- and head for another diary)
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