Yesterday a poll asked if 75% of Americans are morons, based on this comment by Kossack Whimsical: "If you dont get that over 3/4's of the population of EVERY state are morons, uninformed, or uninformed morons, than I'm afraid you're the one whose not reality based, friend."
Whimsical replied: "Your poll (and quote) is off. I have said that 75% of Americans are morons, uninformed, or both, and I'll stand by that...." So it seems they're saying more like 50% of Americans are morons. Of the 430+ votes cast in the poll, 263 agreed.
I wondered if enough comments were made, if the truth of the matter would be laid bare, so let's examine some of the comments for analysis.
Yesterday's Poll: http://www.dailykos.com/...
In the diary I mentioned that people are "...dynamic sapient beings who have simply been lied to and misinformed for a few generations...." which elicited the comment: "...they certainly aren't sapient, which means being very wise, sagacious, or having great taste." Indeed that’s a definition for sapient (Middle English, from Old French, from Latin sapiēns, sapient-, present participle of sapere, to taste, be wise), but what is wisdom other than the ability to know? Of all sentient beings on the planet, humans alone are sapient--we have the ability to examine the past, contemplate the present, and imagine the future--we compose symphonies, devise mathematical theorems, form political parties, all that. No other animal does, so I use the word sapient in the sense of what it implies--the ability to know--and sapience is dynamic: people can become even more wise with the more they know.
Second, the term moron itself: Some pointed out the word used to be a clinical term for those of a low IQ score, but of course we're using it in the popular sense--people who think and/or act stupidly (or even more biting, people who think/act stupidly all the time because they're incapable of anything else).
When discussing whether or not Americans are morons, of course you’d expect comments which touch upon what we as Americans know.
[Americans are] Targets of effective, cynical propaganda nt
by grannyhelen on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:42:36 PM PST
There is ignorance which is one of the effects of being deliberately misinformed, an understandable condition....
by xgy2 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:43:13 PM PST
Most people are not morons.... On the other hand, it is quite easy to deceive people. It's very, very easy to happen upon an uniformed opinion (which sounds better than a lie, and there is frequently a real distinction) that sounds plausible, which is the stock-in-trade of the mainstream media these days....
by sfbob on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:47:20 PM PST
They are dangerously uninformed though not really morons.... Americans have become adaptive supportives in an oligarchy that encourages and even trains children to such behavior.
by anarchyintheusa on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 02:05:52 PM PST
It's a human issue and it's definitely not unique to the USA. It is absolutely a propaganda issue, first and foremost...the vast majority of our problem is...well, it's in my sig (REPEAL the Telecomm Act & REVIEW this decision. NO journalist should be fired because their boss can't have the truth told).... I get really pissed at folks who just sort of generalize that "Americans are stupid, Americans just care about (whatever TV show/hot topic is really popular at the moment)" etc. That's not fair and 75% is not true. I sometimes feel as if those assumptions are another means to discourage action.
by lunachickie on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 03:18:34 PM PST
A little harsh.... I also think that we now have a BIG conservative/corporate disinformation complex to contend with, that has really only come into existence in the past 10-12 years, that previous generations did not have to confuse and mislead them. Obviously I'm talking about the collusion between corporate PACs, the GOP, Fox News, and the right-wing hate radio industry. Not so obviously, this also includes 1) the corruptive influence their success and ratings have on the more mainstream news outlets and 2) the news that the MSM's owners simply don't want them to report on. It's downright scary how much of the news is just flat-out lies nowadays. It wasn't like this back in the '80s and '90s. I have changed my mind about things based on news, only to find that the news turned out to be bogus and my opinion was much closer to the facts in the first place, more often than I am comfortable with.
by Burro Futbolero on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 03:26:00 PM PST
The Right Has Spent Trillions Taking No Chances that Americans are morons, when the past half century of propaganda and marketing are summed. They never bet their bottom line on American stupidity.
by Gooserock on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 03:50:03 PM PST
In other words, for anyone to dismiss Americans as morons, and/or uninformed is moronic in itself because there’s a world of difference between being uniformed and being misinformed/disinformed. If you want to disagree with the above comments and contend it’s simply a situation of willful ignorance, of course you can, but such an opinion is moronic because it isn’t supported by the facts of reality. Americans are and have been purposefully misinformed, disinformed, and lied to for quite some time now--especially since the loss of the media's Fairness Doctrine in the 1980s. In other words, of the 260+ who voted Yes on the poll, they're not more than morons calling others morons.
Then there was this exchange in the comments:
Actually I'd compute it like this About 40% of eligible voters don't vote. They don't have an excuse and I'll gladly lump them in the moron category. Roughly half of the remaining 60% vote for Tea Bag morans and Republicans. That's 30% more. So we're up to 70% without even breaking a sweat. Note the 50-60% who think the Earth is 6014 years old are largely in the above two groups. The spill over should get you to 75%.
by ontheleftcoast on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:50:50 PM PST
Can only agree. Said something similar up thread--should have scrolled down.
by senilebiker on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 02:22:33 PM PST
Not voting makes you a moron? Hardly. Just because someone's disinterested in politics doesn't make them stupid. Then there are people who've developed a cynical mistrust of the political system. You may disagree, but it's hardly an indefensible position. Do you really imagine that the people voting are the half of the population that's SMARTEST? You're barely half-bright yourself if you think so.
by LongTom on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 04:40:42 PM PST
Logic fail.... The population that doesn't vote could easily be smarter than the 30% that does vote but votes Republican. I never said they had to be dumber then those that vote. Better to be silent and thought a fool then to hit "Post" and remove all doubt.
by ontheleftcoast on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 05:08:05 PM PST
Not voting does. Not voting gives control over your legal rights to the people who do vote. In my mind, that makes those people morons.
by RParker on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 05:40:04 PM PST
Has anyone told people who talk about voting, that over the past few years The Vote has become privatized? Two corporations now tally 80%+ of all votes cast nationwide, all behind closed doors. Not voting is arguably a sign of intelligence, knowing The Vote is no longer transparent, and/or that corporate power controls the electoral process front to back, and so what’s the point of participating in a charade? I’m not advocating you not vote, but Americans calling other Americans who don’t vote, morons, is ironic based on facts of reality in regards to voting and the electoral process as it has become.
Hmmm.... Frankly, I'd say most people I've met, myself included, do possess some moron-like qualities. We're not idiots about everything. But most people are idiots about something. Politics tends to garner a larger share than most in attracting such tendencies.
by Bobs Telecaster on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:50:49 PM PST
This is the truth. We all have moron-like qualities, we’re all morons at one time or another in our lives--we can only hope we live and learn. But overall are we morons? Is that true?
No it's not true. I do a lot of work involving people at the grass-roots level in public decision-making, and based on my experience, people are pretty smart and level-headed, provided they're given access to enough information to form sound judgments. Depending on the topic, I'd actually trust the average person on the street to make most decisions better than a lot of the so-called "experts" that occupy positions of authority....
by Pilkington on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:50:59 PM PST
Most people are just trying to get by, that doesn't make them morons. Some of the best people I have ever worked with are uneducated, not particularly knowledgeable, and maybe not even very curious. But they are good, honest people who--yeah--can be lead astray and misinformed. Remember that there is an entire industry devoted to deceiving people in this country. I also think that intelligence is a somewhat over-rated virtue. I have met, unfortunately, some very smart but very nasty folks in my time.
by Anne Elk on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 03:07:26 PM PST
Most humans are "morons." That doesn't mean they're academically stupid, unskilled, or unable to do great things. It just means they don't question, look, and listen. Most people, regardless of any demographic factors or geographical location, just do what they think they are supposed to do, and don't think bigger than that. They are stuck in their isolated little culture-bubble or own little world and don't really take a look around them, or think about things other than what's in front of them and spoon-fed to them. "Sheep" is probably a more accurate term than "moron," but the intent is the same.
by Prinny Squad on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:57:43 PM PST
And so here we are (60% of us at least, according to the poll), isolated in our little culture-bubble, our own little world:
If this is true, then the obvious answer is that the intelligent, well meaning, and competent progressives must find a way to suspend the rule of law, seize power, and manage the affairs of their less competent countrymen for their own good. (/snrk)
by camelopardalis on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:54:44 PM PST
Snark? If you profess to be Progressive, liberal, yet also think 75% of Americans are morons, then how much truth underlies such a comment? I suspect much, and on the flip-side it's what a lot of conservatives think in regards to liberals.
The original comment which promted the poll was made in a discussion about whether or not the nation should hold a federal convention, so the people could get their foot in the door, and propose ideas Congress never will.
Perhaps an article 5 convention would help.
by boran2 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:49:31 PM PST
Then it would be illegal to be smart!
by polecat on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 01:51:39 PM PST
Sapience is dynamic, it can come and go collectively. We already know corporate power has been doing its best to pound our collective sapience into a non-descript lump, but if we held a convention the whole process would not only educate us all as to what the convention process is and how it works, but also educate us about what the left and the right actually agree on. Only a moron would believe there’s nothing Progressives and Tea Party folks could ever agree on.
It’s going to take 75% of America to agree to any one idea before anything's ratified as a 28th Amendment, meaning if the idea is even slightly questionable it's going nowhere. Only a moron would believe a federal convention re-writes the Constitution.
If we don’t convoke a convention with the aim of building consensus--on whatever that may be (though I’m confident it'll turn out to be electoral reform--publicly-funded campaigns--paper ballots--end of gerry-mandered districts--term limits--etc.)--there will be an inevitable conclusion.
If we stay here political discussion is dead, democracy is dead, as corporate forces are nearing complete control. All we need is a tipping point calling for the Article V Convention, then we'll be talking politics, then democracy will flourish.
Not a whole bunch of time left.
