My left-leaning friends may banish me to the far reaches of the earth for this... That said-- I think there is something to be learned from sitting down with people you disagree with and speaking to them in a civil manner. Obviously, in recent months, tensions at UC Berkeley have lead to anger, hostility, violence and riots. This passed week, former Breitbart editor, Milo Yiannopoulis scheduled a “Free Speech Week,” evidently intent on inflaming tensions once again. In response, David Gottfried & Edwin Rutsch have been putting up an "Empathy Tent.” Their hope for the tent is that it would be a place for dialogue between left and right leaning activists
On Tuesday, I sat down with David to listen to his thoughts about the situation. As I was wrapping up with David, Joey Gibson of the conservative group Patriot Prayer walked into the tent, mobbed by over a hundred people made up of followers, protesters and reporters. Joey was looking for a dialogue with *anyone* from the left. Unfortunately, most of what he had to say was being drowned out by chants of "Nazi go home" and things of this nature." Claims that he is a white supremacist seem strange, since he is of mixed race. The crowd seemed to be made up of various factions on the left and right, with a large contingent of right-leaning Proud Boys, and the left-leaning By Any Means Necessary. Since I was in the tent already, I decided to sit and talk with Joey. Joey and I were moderated by Edwin, and did our best to be heard above the crowd by using my megaphone, until the tent was almost toppled due to the surging crowd.
Here's the thing-- Joey seems like a reasonable guy-- but some of the people he hangs around with, (from what I can tell), are pretty unreasonable. The main person I'm thinking of is Kyle Chapman AKA Based Stickman. "Stickman" is 6 foot 2, and about 250 pounds-- and he got his name from beating and macing Antifa at the various "Battles of Berkeley." He is a self-described white nationalist, and a leader of what Richard Spencer dubbed “The Alt-right,” and frequently gives speeches using phrases like "the war on whites." He is a
and has served three separate prison terms. He's jumped bail, violated his parole twice, and is described by his own lawyer as having “severe psychological problems,” and according to court records, he likes meth. I don't say any of this to put him down-- I've been arrested, and I don't think a whole lot of our court system-- but the severity of his crimes make a difference. He is currently out on a $135k bond (in his words), and has prior arrests and convictions in 2001 for felony grand theft and a felony robbery in 1993, and as a result, Chapman must serve a mandatory state prison sentence of unspecified length. Stickman was also arrested in 2001 for felony in San Diego County and in Travis County, Texas, for the '93 robbery. There is also video of him sucker-punching Antifa which goes against his constant claim that he will only use violence in self defense, and "the violence is all on the left."
So, if you are Joey Gibson, and this "Stickman" character is the guy your people are rallying around, *why* do you want to be associated with a guy like this? From what I can tell, Joey (as a Christian), feels it’s the Christian thing to do. The next question you’ve got to ask is *how* do you talk sense to a guy like Stickman? Obviously-- you invite him to the Empathy Tent for moderation. Well, I was once again at the Empathy Tent with Dave and Edwin when Joey suggested he wanted to bring Kyle Chapman in for a session. I even volunteered to be the one to sit down with Stickman. Joey's response was "no, you are too much of a free-thinker." It's a strange statement to try to wrap your head around, but what he likely meant was that he thought I was reasonable-- so I suggested my new friend Dustin Emery-- who is also quite reasonable-- but this wasn't a job position being accepted by too many unreasonable people. In fact, I doubted Joey would be able to talk Stickman into doing it.
Yet… as you can see, in this new video, Kyle did sit down with Dustin and Edwin as I watched from the side. I had a long conversation with Dustin right before he sat down with Stickman, so Dustin was able to interject some of what I observed into the discussion, which I was happy to see.
If you lean left, you're probably wondering, "what's the point-- Stickman’s a violent thug who is beyond redemption." Maybe you feel like he is only doing it to have something to show to the court that he is a changed man. That may also be true. But, by being forced to sit down and repeat what the other “side” has to say, it might get a person thinking about what the “other” goes through. It might lead to empathy, and therefore understanding. That is what they Empathy Tent is all about.
During the course of my interactions with Stickman over the passed couple of weeks I witnessed him describe his crusade to save “Western culture” as “a war.” In response, I told him that the “western culture” he was so enthusiastic about saving only lead to more Walmarts and McDonalds— which was the very epitome of the the globalism he claimed to abhor. He said it wasn’t about that— that it’s about the constitution. I responded that our government doesn’t care about the constitution, and that the constitution itself puts treaties above the constitution— yet the US carved the faces of our leaders on foreign soil— something now referred to as Mount Rushmore, in defiance of the Treaty of Fort Laramie.
During un-moderated discussion, he was verbally abusive to those he perceived as “the other”— especially to Viana Roland (a black woman), for having "shit-locks.” Since my beard easily turns into dreadlocks if not maintained, I don’t know that the statement is inherently racist— but Chapman was not helping his likability when he knowingly inserted himself into a predominantly black gathering nearby to the Patriot Prayer rally in order to provoke a response which he did on Wednesday. The students were very clear that they wanted Stickman to leave— and that their gathering was a private event. Stickman responded that it was a public place. Stickman was right about this— but there is no doubt that his behavior was a massively obnoxious at the bare minimum. I asked Kyle to just walk away so as to not escalate the situation. I even pointed out that what he was doing ran contrary to his claim that, “You would never see a conservative disrupting a liberal rally— like a Bernie Sanders rally.” His comeback was that, “it’s not a rally, and they don’t have a permit.” I reminded him that they didn’t have a permit either. My effort to calm the tension had Stickman calling me a troll, and the students angry with me for trying to talk him into leaving. One can only reasonably assume that they too wanted things to escalate. One student even shouted at me, “what makes you the voice of the left?”
I’d like to think that I was simply a voice of reason.
What I found truly bizarre about the whole situation was that the left had adopted the tactics of the right and the right had adopted the tactics of the left. Both sides have taken to wearing masks. Both sides say the other side being disallowed wearing masks has forced conversation. (Even I can agree on this point.) Both sides have used obstructions to obscure, and chanting to prevent discussion. Both sides have resorted to violence. Both sides have turned to creating human walls.
What is sad, is that the left, (as recently as a year ago), used to be the side for discussion and understanding, and anti-wall. On Monday, students adopted the human-wall strategy which Trumpers have used on me, and made themselves into a wall to prevent InfoWars from asking questions. While I may have major disagreements with InfoWars, doing so gave them exactly what they wanted, and InfoWars will get infinite play out of the ironic act. I should remind everyone that after the FBI raided us without a warrant at the RNC, and they admitted on camera the raid was because of claims Alex Jones (of InfoWars) made, which are provably false. And yet— I was civil and even defended InfoWars employees Millie Weaver and Gavin Wince.
On Wednesday, a predominantly black group of students held a gathering they hold every Wednesday across the way from the Patriot Prayer rally. Stickman decided he was going to walk on over and see if he could get a reaction. In order to stop Stickman from entering the event, or being filmed, the left-leaning students mimicked Trumpers at Trump rallies by holding their signs high in front of Stickman’s face and in front of my camera chanting “nazi go home,” and things to that effect. This, of course, directly mirrors Trump rallies, in which Trumpers held their signs high and chanted “Trump, Trump, Trump.” At one point a presumably left-leaning man with a pro-gay shirt began physically pushing me and shoulder bumping me. It’s was far less violent than what I have experienced at Trump rallies, but it is straight out of the Trumper play-book in which they employ lower-body hits and kidney punches so it would be hard to be seen on camera. When I asked the man why he was doing this, he refused to respond, just standing in my path. Again— just like the Trumpers.
When speaking to the various attendees, those on the right constantly say that “the violence is all on the left.” When I remind them that there was over a year of violence by Trumpers toward the peaceful left which lead to the rise of the new Antifa, they feigned ignorance. I could rattle off incidents and names of people involved, and they would claim to be unaware. They even said they were unaware that Trump boldly said he would pay the legal fees of Trump supporters who beat lefties. Still- they feigned ignorance. I even had a compilation video of Trumpers attacking lefties at the ready, made in 2015…
I want to be clear that I am anti-fascist, but I would never join Antifa the group or any other group that would have me. Group-think invariably leads to “sides,” which leads to misunderstanding, which when stoked by a man like Trump with the world’s largest bully-pulpit, leads to violence. Just like the right, I have seen Antifa commit acts of violence unprovoked— and you can even see video of me jumping in front of a left-leaning fight group to protect Trump supporters back in 2016. When played on repeat by Fox News and others without the full context that Trump has encouraged the violence, the right felt the need to escalate— and then you get Charlottesville, and the death of Heather Heyer.
Violence only begets more violence.
As corny as the idea of an Empathy Tent is— their creators are aware of this— but are willing to take the ridicule if it means that a guy like Kyle Chapman can sit down and listen and be forced to voice the concerns of the opposition. It should also be noted that Edwin and Dave from the Empathy Tent would welcome a sit-down with Antifa or BAMN.
There’s probably some wondering if this could possibly have any real effect. Well, I think it is better to reach out an olive branch for peace than to keep just punching people in the face— and the world could use a little empathy right now.
@RodWebber