In newly released testimony, former special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker told congressional investigators that Donald Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, had upended U.S. diplomacy with Ukraine by advancing debunked conspiracy theories about the Bidens and the 2016 elections. "The negative narrative about Ukraine which Mr. Giuliani was furthering was the problem," Volker said during testimony last month, explaining anemic diplomatic efforts to provide robust support for the new Ukrainian administration. "It was, in my view, it was impeding our ability to build the relationship the way we should be doing, in my—as I understood it."
The gulf between what Volker “understood” to be in U.S. interests and what Giuliani was advancing is evident throughout the testimony. Based on excerpts of the 360-page transcript released by House Democrats, Volker relayed that Ukrainian officials came to see Giuliani as the key conduit to Trump and that Volker tried, to no avail, to disabuse Giuliani of the conspiracy theories he was spreading about the Bidens and Ukrainian involvement in the 2016 elections. At one point, Giuliani even insisted on explicit mentions of the two items in a statement Ukraine was preparing to publicly commit to opening investigations of corruption in order to please Trump.
Below are some highlights from the excerpts.
Ukrainian officials clearly understood that Giuliani was the chief conduit to Trump
"The Ukrainians asked to be connected to him in order to try to get across their message of being different from the past," Volker said of the new Ukrainian administration's efforts. They believed that "information flow would reach the president" if they went through Giuliani, Volker added.
At the Ukrainian’s request, Volker connected top Zelensky aide Andriy Yermak with Giuliani.
On July 18, Volker learned of the "hold" placed on U.S. security assistance for Ukraine but couldn't determine the reason for it
"In this case, here you had an instance where everyone that I spoke with in the policy side of the administration—you know, Pentagon, military, civilian, State Department, National Security Council—they all thought this is really important to provide this assistance," Volker testified. "And so, in that circumstance, for there to be a hold placed struck me as unusual. I didn’t know the reason. No reason was ever given as to why that was."
Volker tried to tell Giuliani that the Biden issue was completely false, but Giuliani remained hyper-focused on the Bidens rather than the more general issue of corruption as it related to Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company on which Hunter Biden held a board seat
Q: So is it your testimony that you understood that Rudy Giuliani’s desire for the Ukrainian Government to investigate Burisma had to do with potential money laundering or other criminal conduct by the company itself, and not in connection to either Joe or Hunter Biden?
A: No. I believe that Giuliani was interested in Biden, Vice President Biden’s son Biden [sic], and I had pushed back on that, and I was maintaining that distinction.
Q: So you were maintaining that distinction, because you understood that that whole theory had been debunked and there was no evidence to support it, right?
A: Yes.
Volker also told Giuliani that the source of the information he was pushing, Ukraine’s then-Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko was “not credible.”
Volker viewed Trump's ask in the July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Zelensky to be "explosive"
"...asking the President of Ukraine to work together with the Attorney General [of the United States] and to look into this,” Volker said, “you can see, as it has now happened, this becomes explosive in our domestic politics."
Giuliani insisted that a draft statement Ukraine planned to issue committing to investigations into corruption had to include explicit references to “Burisma and 2016.”
Volker explained the he had a conversation with Giuliani about the text of the statement: “Rudy says: Well, if it doesn’t say Burisma and if it doesn’t say 2016, what does it mean? You know, it’s not credible. You know, they’re hiding something. And so we talked and I said: So what you’re saying is just at the end of the—same statement, just insert Burisma and 2016, you think that would be more credible? And he said: Yes.”
The original draft statement sent to Volker didn't include the mentions Giuliani wanted. So on August 13, 2019, Volker sent an insert to the Ukrainians for the draft statement that would explicitly include "Burisma and the 2016 elections."
Q: What did you write to Mr. Yermak?
A: I said: Hi, Andriy, good talking. Following is text with insert at the end for the two key items. We will work on official request.
Q: What did you mean by the two key items?
A: That is Burisma and 2016 elections.
Q: And that’s what Rudy Giuliani wanted to be in the statement from—
A: That’s right.
Q: —the President of Ukraine?
A: That’s correct.
Ultimately, the statement was scrapped because Ukraine opted not to include Burisma and 2016 in it and Giuliani was adamant that the statement only mattered if it included those two mentions. But just think about that—U.S. diplomats, driven by Giuliani, were telling the Ukrainians exactly what they would say in making a public commitment to investigate corruption in their country.