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Live coverage: Donald Trump testifies in New York fraud trial

by Mark Sumner for Daily Kos Liveblogs

Daily Kos Staff Emeritus

Monday, Nov. 06, 2023 Monday, Nov. 06, 2023 at 6:53:33am PST

NEW YORK, NEW YORK - NOVEMBER 06: Former President Donald Trump speaks as he arrives for his civil fraud trial at New York State Supreme Court on November 06, 2023 in New York City. Trump is scheduled to testify in the civil fraud trial that alleges that he and his two sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump conspired to inflate his net worth on financial statements provided to banks and insurers to secure loans. New York Attorney General Letitia James has sued seeking $250 million in damages. His sons testified in the trial last week and his daughter Ivanka Trump is scheduled to testify on Wednesday after her lawyers were unable to block her testimony. (Photo by Michael M. Santiago/Getty Images) — Donald Trump speaks as he arrives for his civil fraud trial at New York State Supreme Court on November 06, 2023 in New York City.

Last week, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump appeared in the New York courtroom of Judge Arthur Engoron, where each made it clear that they had helped to commit fraud. Eric Trump’s testimony in particular went so poorly that Donald Trump’s legal team, headed up by attorney Chris Kise, went to extraordinary lengths to disrupt the court on Thursday and Friday, causing Engoron to expand his gag order over the weekend to protect members of the court staff from further abuse and endangerment.

Engoron has already found that Trump, his sons, and his company engaged in fraud. The trial now is just about establishing specific violations and setting an appropriate level of punishment. Everything has gone so badly for team Trump in the trial that on Friday, Kise threatened to seek a mistrial on the ludicrous basis that Trump has a “First Amendment right” to insult and threaten Engoron’s legal clerk. Most everything the attorneys have done in court seems like an open attempt to provoke Engoron into giving Kise some pretext to support asking for a do-over.

On Monday morning, Donald Trump is slated to sit down and answer questions about the massive fraud he, his family, and his companies have committed. However, don’t be surprised if Kise and Trump attorney Alina Habba continue in their attempt to derail the trial.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:30:39 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump’s morning performance was marked by long, rambling responses that failed to answer questions and repeatedly went off track to repeat the kind of claims he’s made multiple times on social media. Much of it seemed dedicated to trying to rile Judge Engoron into taking some kind of definitive action that might have justified a motion for mistrial.

After a lunch break in which both Trump and his attorney Habba seemed intent on bolstering that case, Trump was mostly monosyllabic in responding to a series of large documents he was presented during the afternoon.

Toward the end of the testimony, Trump seemed to be winding up again, attacking Enrogon and the state’s attorney Wallace. But Wallace successfully led Trump past a series of loan agreements, got the responses he wanted, and let Trump go.

Trump is off the stand.

Following Trump’s testimony, Kise immediately brought up his threat of a motion for a mistrial. This time, he told Enrogon that he may want to bring up information that could be barred in court. Presumably, this means without digging into conspiracy theories around Engoron, James, and others.

Engoron ends the day asking Kise not to file that motion. But it’s a pretty good bed that the motion will be filed. After all, Trump had already lost this case before the trial began. We’re only there to determine how badly he lost it.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:21:24 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

After some tussling over the testimony of Weisselber, who Trump says was prosecuted just because Trump ran for president, the state appears to be finished. And just when it seemed Trump was ramping up to another rant.

NYAG's counsel: "Your honor, we have nothing further at this time."

No cross-examination.

Trump exits the stand.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:18:37 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

The afternoon is warming up. Trump apparently frustrated after the judge called him out for giving a series of responses in which he tried to put all the responsibility on the banks and said they have “expensive lawyers” who are supposed to check everything.

Trump just tore into the AG and the judge. He called Wallace a "disgrace."

Engoron says he's going to date himself with the analogy, but Trump's sounding like a "broken record."
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:15:14 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump promises that Deutsche Bank will testify that these agreements didn’t matter and that the certifications were not important to them at all.

There’s something to put on your checklist for when Trump’s attorneys get around to calling defense witnesses.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:13:08 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

And since Trump keeps bringing up the “worthless” clause…

How the judge jettisoned the "worthless clause" defense before trial, in the ruling ordering the dissolution of Trump's New York business empire.

His "reliance on these 'worthless' disclaimers is worthless." pic.twitter.com/85zinT6ANf
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:11:55 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Multiple documents in, Trump still seems to think that there’s value in arguing that he could have made a different deal, so he shouldn’t be held to the one he did make.

NY AG lawyer: We're going to hand you a new document, PX 503. An internal Deutsche Bank email, with you signature in the attachment. Is this yours?
Trump: Yes.
NY AG lawyer: You knew Deutsche Bank would reply on this?
Trump: I could have negotiated it out
— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:05:10 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Now Wallace has moved to the documents around the Old Post Office property in Washington, D.C. — the site of many a scam when renting overpriced rooms there was one way to express your love for Trump.

The Old Post Office loan agreement also contains the covenants that were in the other deals Trump made with Deutsche Bank: minimum liquid assets, minimum net worth, and the requirement to keep accurate financial records.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 8:01:35 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

New York Times points out that Trump keeps denying the pieces of paper put in front of him.

Several times today, Wallace, the attorney general’s lawyer, has just gone over what a contract says with Trump and asked him if it says what it says and Trump has said no. That’s just what happened, in regard to a loan certification they’re going through. Trump is objecting that his company did not include brand value.

There’s a magical unicorn that was lurking off the page, so now the page doesn’t say what it says. Which is not how any contract has worked since they were written in cuneiform.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:59:07 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump once again claims that the statements prepared by his accountants were not accurate because they didn’t include his biggest asset: “Brand value.”

However, he didn’t provide them with a value or make any complaint about the statement at the time.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:56:57 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump runs back to the statute of limitations claim that Engoron just overruled twice.

Trump:

"You're going into ancient history."

He complains again on the statute of limitations and goes into a lengthy monologue about the disclaimer clause.

"Therefore, you have no case."
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

Now he’s once again going on about the disclaimer clause that was dismissed before the trial even began.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:55:12 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump gets a little sidetracked again, claiming that he could have told the banks he had much less in assets and still get the loans. However, that is not relevant to whether he lied, and it's likely the numbers he provided were threshold values to secure the amounts and rates he was given.

If there is evidence of this, Trump’s attorneys could have submitted statements from the banks supporting this position. They didn’t.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:50:15 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

This afternoon, Trump is giving a lot of brief answers. Including some “yes” and “no” responses. It would be nice to think that the histrionics are over, but they’ve likely got something else staged for when Wallace moves to a different area of questioning.

Or maybe Trump just really wants to get off the stand now, since Engoron isn’t going to let him give his rally speech.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:47:31 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Wallace is still making Trump look at every one of these, along with the multiple requirements he agreed to when he applied for the loan.

That's why the AG's counsel keeps showing Trump loan agreements that obligate Trump to:

* supply "true and correct" financial statements
* maintain a certain net worth (usually $2.5 billion
* maintain certain liquidity (under the heading unencumbered liquid assets)
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:44:55 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

One thing that’s going unmentioned: Because of the fraudulent statements of financial condition, Trump got a lower interest rate than he might have gotten if he had been truthful. So even if the banks got paid, they got cheated.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:42:58 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

While the afternoon has so far not been as contentious as the morning, most of what Trump is saying is just retreading the claims of his attorneys who are trying to push a “no harm no foul” view of fraud.

Basically, if everyone got paid, does it matter that Trump lied to get the loans?

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:40:16 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump follows up a series of questions about paying off a loan in Chicago with an accusation followed by some WTH.

Trump: I understand what this is - it's called, Politics.
NY AG lawyer: Did you understand you were required to turn in annual financial statements?
Trump: Well I had 'em, might as well put 'em in.
NY AG lawyer: Is that a yes?
Trump: Yes.
— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:38:04 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump is once again heading off down a road he has walked many times, but which has nothing to do with whether or not this was fraud.

Trump argues again that it wasn't fraud because the banks "got all their money back" and the loan was "paid off in full."

"The bank was thrilled," Trump testifies.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:36:35 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

MSNBC on how Trump’s morning testimony helped the AG’s case.

Basically a long series of Trump contradicting himself on the values of 40 Wall Street, Aberdeen, and Silver Springs.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:33:30 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump is moving slowly in responding to these documents, but as multiple pundits have pointed out, this is the heart of James’ case. It’s not just that Trump made false statements, but that those false statements both allowed him to obtain money through fraudulent statements to banks and avoid taxes through fraudulent statements to governments.

The statements of financial condition are especially critical to these bank loans.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:30:15 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

New York Times:

Trump looks a little more tired this afternoon, as we go through lengthy documents. He pulls a sheaf of papers very close to his face in order to scrutinize it. It’s another loan agreement, which Trump has signed.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:29:11 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump insists that he always has that much money floating around. “I’ve had a lot of cash for a long time.”

The agreement also required that Trump have a net worth of $2.5 billion at the time. He insists it was true, although the AG’s office puts it at $1.8 billion based on the 3rd party evaluations that had been conducted for the Trump Organization.

And we’re apparently going to be repeating this loop a lot.

NY AG lawyer: PX 310, term loan Deutsche Bank -is this Trump Chicago residential?
Trump: I believe so.
NY AG lawyer: Move to admit
Trump's lawyer: Objection, statute of limitations
Judge Engoran: Overruled.
— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:23:44 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump is being shown a loan agreement with his signature.

Under the terms of the agreement, Trump had to maintain unencumbered liquid assets of $50 million.

Q: Do you believe you complied with this?
A: Yeah, I had a lot of cash.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:22:41 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Kise objects to a question based on the statute of limitations, but this is the same area that was specifically dealt with in the opening phase of the trial in which it was connected with issues that were in the period under investigation. Engoron overrules. Trump smirks. He seems to think this is good for him.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:19:31 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Two of the attorneys with Trump today, Todd Blanche and Susan Necheles, are criminal lawyers and haven’t been in the courthouse with him on other days. Not sure what that says.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:17:55 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump has returned to the stand. Wallace is now asking him questions about loans from Deutsche Bank.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:16:31 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump and his attorneys are back at the defense table. Take a deep breath, we’re about to get going again.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:09:27 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

As happened this morning, Attorney General James and her team are in court first and taking their position. Waiting on Trump and his attorneys to finish their videos and “truths.”

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:02:15 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

People are filing in. We should be underway again in the next few minutes.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:01:35 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

The NY trial continues to show, day after day, why Trump’s criminal trials MUST be televised. Fox & Newsmax won’t cover the trial. During every break, Trump & his lawyers come out and lie about what just took place, and millions believe their version because that’s all they get.
— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 7:00:19 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

How to know you have a bad attorney in one easy lesson.

When I followed up on if she is urging Trump to answer more concisely knowing Engoron will be the one delivering penalties stemming from the suit, Habba said that she would not tell Trump that cause she would not agree to represent someone & then try to limit their free speech.
— Vaughn Hillyard (@VaughnHillyard) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 6:45:45 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

This morning, Donald Trump resorted to bullying and name calling, he gave rambling answers and hurled insults from the witness stand to distract from the truth.

But make no mistake, he committed fraud. Numbers and facts don't lie.
— NY AG James (@NewYorkStateAG) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 6:37:40 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Don’t be confused: Both Habba’s statement and Trump’s post are about creating the basis for a motion for a mistrial. That’s where they are going.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 6:36:49 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Habba got her feelings bruised.

Habba attacking the judge: But I was told to sit down today. I was yelled at and I've had a judge who is unhinged slamming a table. I don’t tolerate that in my life, I’m not going to tolerate it here pic.twitter.com/u6Sgd7dnqA
— Acyn (@Acyn) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 6:35:01 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Could Trump make it? Of course not. Naturally, this completely mischaracterizes Engoron’s statements, which was about Trump refusing to answer the questions he was asked.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 6:20:54 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Before he left the courtroom, Judge Engoron instructed Trump not to discuss the case over the break. It’s a test for him to keep those lips zipped for a full hour.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 6:16:13 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Some reading why you’re grabbing that quick lunch...

Asked how he knew the banks paid little attention to his financial statements, he said it was from his course of dealing with banks for 50 years; their interest was in the deal.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

NY AG lawyer: The number of homes don't match?
Trump: It's like a painting. The land is there. You can do what you want to do. You can do either one of them.
NY AG lawyer: What about windmills?
Trump: I was not happy. They built them -
NY AG lawyer: Scotland?
Yes
— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) November 6, 2023

Trump's testimony today in his civil fraud trial is a reminder that his entire candidacy was based on a lie — the myth that he was a successful businessman rather than an over-leveraged charlatan who drove his businesses into bankruptcy 6 times.
— Robert Reich (@RBReich) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 6:02:42 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

The 2021 correction was probably the highlight of the morning.

Cue the reporting about how Trump, a 77 year old conspiracist who is delusional about basic aspects of reality, is too cognitively impaired to be president. Right? Right? pic.twitter.com/3Gdp2tgOBc
— Brian Klaas (@brianklaas) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:59:41 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Don’t tell, I can see it from my office window. 🤫 https://t.co/Wl4RnztcQe
— NY AG James (@NewYorkStateAG) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:57:42 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

MSNBC:

Normal witnesses don’t try to take papers from their pockets and then try to read them from the witness stand. But we got another reminder of how this is not a normal trial and how this isn’t a normal witness on the stand.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:52:17 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

That’s lunch, folks. Come back soon for more adventures in Donald Trump tries to provoke a bear because being mauled now beats being eaten later.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:51:14 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump was shown a document in which he approved the valuation of 40 Wall Street. Finally has to admit that he did it.

Q: "Mr. Trump, are you the one who told a reporter for the Wall Street Journal that there was a $600 million appraisal for 40 Wall Street?

Trump says he doesn't remember something from 12 years ago.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:49:21 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

If you wondered why James was laughing about Trump’s remark …

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:44:40 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

I hope to hell Jack Smith has a witness on hand watching this...

All very predictable. But it has to be accounted for.
— emptywheel (@emptywheel) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:41:10 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Wallace takes Trump through more information on 40 Wall Street, showing that it was running at a deficit. Trump decides to take a slight diversion.

Trump, on NYAG Letitia James:

"She doesn't even know what 40 Wall Street is."

NYAG is visibly cackling at the remark for a bit, then puts her head down to compose herself.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:37:59 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

MSNBC suggests that much of Trump’s strategy today has been to goad Enrogon into an angry response, but Engoron has simply let Trump rant himself out.

It brings a whole new meaning to “rope a dope.”

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:36:27 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Apparently, China or Russia makes recorder outside the hearing range of Kise.

9/ The attorney general's office is now playing audio that we released in the story. Trump's lawyer says that he cannot hear it clearly. If he--or anyone--want to listen to Trump telling these lies, it's embedded in the story below. https://t.co/rLYvUQUewX
— Dan Alexander (@DanAlexander21) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:33:26 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump is asked about a Forbes story detailing how he inflated the reported earnings from 40 Wall Street.

Trump's shown an article by Forbes.

He scoffs: "Forbes. They're owned by China. Now, they sold it to Russia."
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

Everything is now at full sneer-pout-yell volume. But on we go.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:30:48 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

If you’re concerned about your BINGO card, Trump did slip a “witch hunt” in there while complaining about James.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:29:16 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump refuses to get that he can’t stick a get-out-of-responsibility-free statement into a financial document that names him as the responsible party.

This is in response to Trump Org's engagement letter with Mazars, which held management responsible for "preventing and detecting fraud."

Referring to the document, Trump says: "I'd love to read this your honor. Can I do that?"

Engoron: "No, not at this point."

Trump: "Shock" pic.twitter.com/FsgVF5HO7J
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:27:35 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump reaches into his pocket, pulls out a copy of the disclaimer clause, and waves it around while yelling. This is going so well.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:26:10 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump (yelling): Engoron "ruled against me before he knew anything about me. He called me a fraud, and he didn’t know anything about me. ... The fraud is on the court; not on me."

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:24:50 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Wallace slips in a question about whether there was any process for dealing with fraud at the Trump Organization. Trump claims people brought any problems to him, but then he can’t cite a specific example.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:22:44 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

I left out this detailed earlier response by Trump when he was challenged over the statement of financial conditions.

Trump:

"I have a lot of money, a lot more money than you thought."
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:20:58 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Engoron tells Trump to read the decision about the disclaimer clause. Trump tells Engoron the decision is gone. Habba jumps up to claim Trump has answered the question. Engoron sits her down again.

Both Wallace and Engoron appear to be just standing by as Trump continues to yell about James being a “political hack.” Not clear how long this is going to go on or why Engoron is giving Trump so much rope.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:18:22 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump continues to argue points he already lost before the trial began. Trump’s legal team lost appeals on exactly this claim.

Trump says of the NYAG: "I think that she's a political hack."

He says that the NYAG used this case to try to become the governor and to successfully become attorney general.

(Trump lost political motivation arguments before trial.)
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:17:04 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump has moved fully into simply attacking Wallace, Engoron, and AG James. Any pretext of answering a question is gone.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:15:34 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump gets into an argument with Wallace about the disclaimer clause and the “hold worthless” clause in the statement of financial condition. Arguments over these clauses have already been heard and dismissed by Enrogon in the opening phase of this trial. Trump knows this isn’t valid as far as defending his statements.

But he’s going there anyway. He claims that the clause has been upheld by every court “except for this particular judge.”

Trump, to the AG's counsel Kevin Wallace:

"People like you go around to try to demean me, and try to hurt me."

Wallace tells the judge he won't move to strike because he has a lot of ground to cover.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:12:31 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

As it turns out, Trump has valued the property even more than internal calculations of what the potential value might be. In part that’s because Trump declared he could build individual homes rather than the condos that are in the construction plans and the statement of financial condition.

As Lisa Rubin reports:

Trump suggests it’s like a painting; the land is there, but “you can do what you want to do.”

Even worse, Wallace asked Trump to admit that in 2014, because of wind farms that had been put in, then-Trump Org. CFO Allen Weisselberg told Scottish regulators that they did not intend to develop the property further.

When asked as of today whether he has yet to build homes at Aberdeen, Trump doesn't say yes; instead, he says “there’s nothing wrong” with holding on to that piece of property.

Trump isn’t just holding onto that property. He’s valuing it for homes and other construction that’s not done and which he has no intention to do.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:09:07 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Aberdeen turns out to be another case of what was seen at both Nikeworld and Trump’s New York properties. Trump jumped the value of the property by $250 million from one year to the next based on the idea that he could build a second course. He clearly believes that as soon as he thinks of something, that value can go on the books. Building it is not required.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:06:37 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

We may not be back to full-on chaos, but we are back to Trump claiming that the financial statements are meaningless when matched against his massive internal calculations of his own worth.

Are you aware of any valuations on the statements of financial condition from 2017 through 2021?

Trump:

"I'm worth billions of dollars more than the financial statements" — and anything "off" would be "non-material."

(The judge rejected materiality arguments before trial.)
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 5:03:15 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

His Scottish golf property once again inspires Trump to go on an extended discourse, ignoring questions, bragging about the beauty of the land, and proclaiming “it may be the greatest golf course ever built."

Enrogon tells Wallace he can cut Trump off if he wants. Kise insists that Trump’s response was “brilliant.”

Whether we’re spiraling out of control again or this is just an unstoppable golf-inspired ramble isn’t clear yet.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:58:00 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Now we’re off to Aberdeen. but first a small detail on Trump’s square footage calculations at Trump Tower.

"And different things" includes an entirely separate penthouse belonging to someone else. And, by the way, Trump is making it sound like he wasn't aware, but he spent two hours personally telling me his apartment was 33,000 square feet and took up all of the top 3 floors... https://t.co/GBI4oqwdDY
— Chase Peterson-Withorn (@ChaseWithorn) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:55:32 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

That $18 million valuation that Trump is always complaining about isn’t something that Engoron came up with. It’s the former discounted valuation of Mar-a-Lago used in calculating local taxes specifically because it is a club.

That valuation was raised to $37 million last month.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:52:37 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump explains that he was simply lying about keeping Mar-a-Lago a club.

Trump is shown an interview of him saying that "the Mar-a-Lago Club is a great success. It will forever be a club."

He says he said it as "bravado," not "legal intent."

Asked if he got tax benefits from it being a club, Trump answers yes.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:51:35 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Wallace goes through portions of the deed which prevent Trump from erecting new buildings on the property, and prohibit renovating the interior to turn it into a single-family home.

Trump says that, because of the word “intends” he believes someone would have the right to ignore this and change Mar-a-Lago however they want. "I believe they would have the right to do it," says Trump.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:48:18 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

A reminder that Trump has agreements both with the local government and with the National Trust for Historic Preservation which provided him with tax breaks and benefits based on that “intention.” Without signing those agreements, Trump would never have been able to purchase and develop Mar-a-Lago.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:45:43 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Weasel wording with a capital Weasel…

NYAG's counsel confronts Trump with the deed stating that "the Club and Trump intend to forever extinguish their right to develop or use the Property for any purpose other than club use."

Trump parses: "'Intend' doesn’t mean we will do it."
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

Trump’s claims about Mar-a-Lago are going to lean on this. Seriously.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:42:40 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump agrees that Mar-a-Lago is a private club. This is a key factor in its valuation, and there are at least two standing agreements requiring Trump not to turn Mar-a-Lago into private residences. Expect this to come up again Real Soon Now.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:40:25 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

A ripple of laughter runs through the court as Trump explains he couldn’t take a close look at the 2021 statements because he was focused on China, and Russia, and keeping America safe.

Wallace has to remind Trump that his term was over in 2021.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:36:07 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Things are moving much more quickly now. Trump is not giving a speech in reply to each question. It’s not obvious exactly what finally got through to him in the initial session, but for now, he’s being very subdued—even if he can’t stop lying, exaggerating, and shifting blame.

After explaining how his penthouse was too big because “they” forgot to subtract elevator shafts (which wouldn’t come close to making up the difference), we’re on to questioning about Mar-a-Lago.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:32:55 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump admits that his penthouse is much smaller than claimed in his financial statements, then blames “them” for doing it.

Wallace asks Trump about valuations of his New York penthouse in 2014, which inaccurately tripled its size.

Trump concedes, while disclaiming responsibility for it:

“The number was too high. They lowered it after that.”
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:31:22 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump is asked about the value of his 30% stake in Vornado Realty, which controlled two buildings. Trump testifies he didn’t put up any money and had no liability (the truth is a lot more complicated). Trump is then asked about the $816 million value given those properties in 2014.

Wallace: Is that accurate?

Trump: “I think so; I hope so. … I think it’s low.”

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:27:46 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Questioning is underway again with Wallace asking Trump about his statements of financial condition.

These statements not only contained information about property valuations, but supposedly let banks know about his liquid assets when evaluating Trump for potential loans.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:23:04 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Earlier, Judge Engoron warned that he would “draw every negative inference” if Trump didn’t begin responding to questions.

This is the equivalent of Trump invoking the Fifth Amendment or being a non-cooperative witness who refuses to admit to any evidence that weighs against him. Also meaning that anything Trump said that might help his case would be discounted.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:19:15 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Everyone is filing back in after the break. Trump going back to the stand.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:15:11 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

At one point earlier, Engoron threatened to excuse the witness if he didn't respond to the questions he was asked.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:10:25 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Reporter: Mr. Trump how’s it going in there?

Trump: 🤐 pic.twitter.com/ORTSg6t3zc
— Acyn (@Acyn) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:09:34 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

At this first break of the morning, here’s where we are:

Trump has responded to almost every question with a long, rambling response, many of which have had little to do with what he was asked. He’s talked over prosecutor Kevin Wallace and kept talking when Judge Engoron has intervened.

Engoron has repeatedly asked Trump attorney Chris Kise to get his client under control, but Kise has argued that Trump gets special privileges as “the former and future chief executive” and that Engoron should just “let him talk.”

Meanwhile, Trump attorney Alina Habba has attacked Wallace for failing to ask the right questions.

Trump has at least twice attacked Enrogon, saying that he always rules against him and that its an unfair trial.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:02:47 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

And we move to a 15 minute recess with Wallace making a final plea for Kise to get his client under control.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 4:01:46 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump admits that he accepted the valuation of 40 Wall Street that's in the statement even though “other people made it.” Again and again, Trump seems to think that what was in his head in terms of speculative, potential value, trumps (pun intended) what was written on official company documents.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:59:49 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Alina Habba jumps up, saying that Wallace needs to ask “better questions” than the simple fact-based, yes or no questions he’s been asking. Like … how dare he not invite Trump to give a rally speech!

Habba pushes back, “Yes, you are here to listen to what he has to say.” Engoron reiterates he is here to listen to Trump answer questions and then loses his temper, “SIT DOWN!” He instructs Wallace to continue, but not before Trump adds, “This is a very unfair trial.”
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:57:17 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Kise again insists that Trump gets special courtroom rights, unavailable to any other witness or defendant.

Kise: “I’d urge the court to take in all information possible ….You have on the stand a candidate for president of the United States; the most efficient way to get through this is to listen to what he has to say … about what happened and why there’s no intent to mislead anyone.…
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

This can also be read as Kise saying “just let him talk. We can never get him to shut up.”

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:55:47 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Wallace has moved to the 40 Wall Street property; a Trump favorite. The valuation there was based on the cash flow generated from the building, Trump is asked if the numbers in the statement are accurate.

Trump insists that the property is undervalued because he has a right to build condos there. This is very like the statement that Eric made about one of Trump’s upstate golf properties where it was valued not as a piece of undeveloped land, but based on the maximum number of homes that could be built on the property. And when that wasn’t enough, they ignored the estimate prepared for them by experts they had hired and just penciled in a number.

Trump’s answer sprawls on and on, with Wallace unable to get him to stop explaining why the numbers—prepared by his own company officers and filed on a statement he signed—are undervalued.

Enrogon steps in again, telling Kise “I beseech you” to get your client under control.

Bonus points to Engoron for “beseech.”

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:49:13 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Back to Niketown. Trump insists he wouldn’t sell it for the $348 million valuation. But grudgingly half-admits that the valuation was based on accurate information. “I guess so.”

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:46:49 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

After Trump refuses to stop another extended lecture on why the statement doesn’t matter and only he knows the value of these properties, we’re back to this.

Engoron:

"Mr. Kise, can you control your witness because I am considering drawing a negative inference on any question he might be asked?"

Kise urges the judge against that.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:45:06 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Things get temporarily back on track as Trump is asked about the valuation of his “Niketown” property. Trump insists it is worth more than the statement shows because it’s a “hold up” property between IBM and Tiffany that he was keeping until one of them wanted to buy it.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:40:55 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Chaos descends. Trump is making claims about the statement that he wasn’t asked. Engoron is striking statements without waiting for an objection. Kise is blaming Wallace for not asking the right questions.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:39:12 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Half an hour in, and this is where we are.

Judge Engoron: “Mr. Kise, can you control your client? This is not a political rally… Maybe you should have a talk with him right now.” Kise disagrees and says it would be far more economical to let the “former and future chief executive of the United States” to give his…
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:38:25 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump is doing a Trump: No matter what he’s asked, he just rambles off into a fantasy that repeats many of his social media claims.

Engoron is getting exhausted by Trump’s refusal to answer questions directly.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:36:54 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Engoron: "Mr. Wallace, did you ask for an essay on brand value?"

Wallace: "No, your honor."

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:35:37 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump continues to whine rather than answer questions.

Trump caricatures the AG's case:

"Trump had no money. And he wrote up phony statements, and he defrauded banks," even though they were represented by the best lawyers.

Wallace: I move to strike that answer.
Granted.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:34:31 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump takes time out from attacking Engoron to attack Wallace, saying that he is “assuming the statements are false” and repeating his claims that everyone got paid.

Trump also says that the statements are “not important.” Which Engoron isn’t likely to find convincing.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:32:06 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump complains about Judge Engoron valuing Mar-a-Lago at $18 million, which is a thing that never happened, no matter how many times Trump writes it at Truth Social. And then Trump claims that these numbers are directly related to his 2016 win.

“I became president because of my brand. If I wanted to build up a statement because of my brand, all I would have to do is add brand value and my financial statement would be very very substantial.”
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

Seems to be suggesting he can add any number he wants because his name has infinite value. So any estimate of his properties is too low.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:29:17 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump says that he would give his opinion when he was asked, but it was those other guys who talked to the accountants. However, he still has some opinions.

Trump insists that his marquee properties were "underestimated," like Mar-a-Lago, 40 Wall Street, Doral and others.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:27:41 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump seems to be trying to have it both ways. He continues to argue that the reports were up to Mazars and they should have asked more questions while also insisting that he is the “biggest expert” about the value of his properties.

And here’s the 10:25 bus! Trump says that Allen Weisselberg and Jeff McConney were principally responsible for giving information to Mazars.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:25:08 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

After Kise tries to jump in, Engoron sits him down.

Engoron reminds Kise that it is simply untrue that he always rules against Trump and then addresses Trump himself, “You can attack me, but just answer the question.”
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:23:58 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

And here we go. After Engoron tells Trump to stop rambling and answer the questions presented to him, Trump snipes at Engoron.

Trump swipes at Justice Engoron from the witness stand, going off on a tangent about the statute of limitations:

“I’m sure the judge will rule against me because he always rules against me.”
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:21:45 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Wallace walked Trump through the sequence of events, with Trump insisting that he put Junior back as a trustee because he had increasing faith in his family and ignoring the issue of Weisselberg.

Wallace now starts taking Trump through the 2014 statement of financial condition, in which the second paragraph states that Trump himself is responsible for the preparation and presentation of the financial statement in accordance with GAAP.
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

Trump follows the path Junior took last week, placing the blame on accounting firm Mazars, but Trump and Junior are the ones on the hook.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:16:20 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump says he appointed Junior as a trustee because he was a “good boy.”

A good boy who, according to his testimony, signed a bunch of documents that made him responsible for Trump Organization tax filings without bothering to read them.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:14:00 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Worth noting that Miller, sitting with Trump’s defense team today, is a witness in the D.C. election interference trial.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:12:34 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Wallace is still walking Trump through the papers showing that he appointed Junior and Eric as trustees, then revoked those positions, then reinstated Junior following … an incident.

(Wallace is now showing him the documentation of his reappointing Jr. as trustee. What’s gone unsaid so far is that 6 days before, the Manhattan DA indicted Allen Weisselberg and his organization.)
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:09:38 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Today, Donald Trump takes the stand in our trial against him and the Trump Organization.

He has repeatedly and consistently lied about the value of his assets to fraudulently enrich himself and his family.

Donald Trump might lie, but the facts and the numbers don’t.
— NY AG James (@NewYorkStateAG) November 6, 2023

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:08:44 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Some standard accounting business so far. Trump acknowledges that he is the sole owner of the plethora of companies in the Trump Organization, and says he took back full control in 2021. Which seems to be an admission that he no longer had a conflict of interest.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:06:39 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Trump is on the stand. I’m somewhat surprised that this part went according to plan.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:04:01 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

Donald Trump walks in along with attorneys Chris Kise, Trump, Alina Habba, Alan Garten, Todd Blanche, and Susan Necheles. Also sitting down by the crowded defense table are campaign spokesmen Steven Cheung and Jason Miller. Because you never know when something will need to be tweeted.

UPDATE: Monday, Nov 6, 2023 · 3:00:02 PM +00:00 · Mark Sumner

The team of Attorney General Letitia James has entered and been seated. Attorney Kevin Wallace will be leading the questioning of Trump.

No defense team in court at the moment.

Editor’s note: Judge Arthur Engoron’s name was misspelled in a previous version.