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Welcome to the first diary of this Black Kos-hosted Reading Group series.

Of course, you don't have to be a member of Black Kos to join this discussion; it's open for anybody and the more, the merrier! Come and join us on The Porch every Monday night at 7:30-ish for the next 8 or so weeks

PERSONAL STATEMENT: Why this book and why now?:

From the moment that Barack Obama declared his intention of campaigning to become the 44th President of the United States, there has been an intensified national conversation about the accomplishments and non-accomplishments of the black civil rights movement. Much of that discussion has centered around the time period 1954 (Brown v. Board) to 1968 (Dr. Martin Luther's King's assassination), around a few personalities (mostly Dr. King and Malcolm X), and around a few concepts (nonviolent civil disobedience, de jure segregation). Instinctively, these discussions seemed inadequate and flawed.

I knew that "the black civil rights movement" began prior to the ratification of the 13th amendment to the United States Constitution (the abolition of slavery and involuntary servitude in most cases). I knew a few of the significant names (e.g. Frederick Douglass, Booker T. Washington, Dr. W.E.B. DuBois, A. Philip Randolph) and most of the major events of those times (e.g. Plessy V. Ferguson, the failure of post-Civil War Reconstrction, the showing of Birth of a Nation, the failure to pass an anti-lynching bill, the proposed 1941 March on Washington). But I really did not know how these "bare-bones facts" were woven into a history of black civil rights in a "big picture" sort of way.

It was the passage of Proposition 8 in California which brought me into the blogosphere. Mostly I was reading predominately gay blogs. The anger at black people for their supposed role in the passage of an amendment to the California Constitution defining marriage as "one man/one woman" was palapable. Occasionally, some posters would say outright racist shit but more often the argument was "black people fought for their rights, they should know better." Usually that sentiment would be supplemented with one of the few quotes by Dr. King or his wife Coretta that is taught in schools nowadays. Of course there was the obligatory mention of Bayard Rustin or the cursory mention of an event. Often, people were referring to a black civil rights history devoid of context, texture, and, ultimately, drained of meaning and significance. And those arguments were relatively easy to refute.

But I wanted to know more. After all, it was the history of my people.

And while I read some black civil rights histories that covered the years 1954-1968, I was far more interested in the times and periods prior to 1954 and Brown v. Board.

That interest in black civil rights history led me to Thomas Sugrue's Sweet Land of Liberty: The Forgotten Struggle for Civil Rights in the North about a year ago.

As I stated, some of the history that Sugrue tells was familiar to me. But the sheer number and variety of the people, organizations, and events simply dazzled me (and it still does). Additionally, in covering this history of the black civil rights movement from the Great Migration to the Clinton Administration, he rightly implies that the battle for black civil rights did not end on November 4, 2008 (as many people seemed to imply); the battle continues. and it's as true of the northern part of these United States as the southern part:

At the opening of the 21st century, the fifteen most segregated metropolitan areas in the United States were in the Northeast and the Midwest...The five states with the highest rates of school segregation-New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Michigan, and California-all are outside the South. Rates of unemployment, underemployment, and poverty reach Third World levels among African Americans in nearly every major northern city, where the faces in welfare offices, unemployment lines, homeless shelters, and jails are disproportionately black.

Sweet Land of Liberty, p. xix
Pardon my French, but we ain't overcome shit.

Roughly a week prior to the 2015 Baltimore Uprising, I ran across a cheap copy of Sweet Land of Liberty in a used book store and began reading it again; much more closer than I had previously. Once the 2015 Baltimore Uprising happened, the chorus of keyboards (especially here at Daily Kos) wagging their finger at black communities and droning on and on about Dr. King and "nonviolence" made me angry.

It also seemed pretty obvious that this keyboard chorus knew little or nothing about any black civil rights history; much less what I was reading in Sweet Land of Liberty. The book speaks directly to many of the problems facing Baltimore and many African American communities today.

And James Baldwin taught me a long time ago not to leave anyone any "outs."

But it is not permissible that the authors of devastation should also be innocent. It is the innocence which constitutes the crime.  James Baldwin
In many ways, I would like for this book group and our conversations in the coming weeks to be a paper trail of that destruction of innocence.


1) With the exception of this first week, each week's study will begin with a recap of the material covered the previous week. Group commentary and posted links may be included in the recap.

2) The chapter(s) to be covered for the week. I will present both an objective summary of the material and my own personal thoughts and notes.

3) I will list and link a number of secondary sources of the information in connection with the chapters under discussion.

4) Whenever possible, I will try to include some images from African American newspapers contemporary to the events discussed.

Sugrue himself (in the Acknowledgements) says that "Sweet Land of Liberty stands on the shoulders of long-forgotten journalists, most of them black, who covered the northern freedom struggle..." A few of the names are familiar with me; most are not. IMO, we can't very well highlight the author without highlighting those journalists and their valuable work.

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Reposted from Ian Reifowitz by Denise Oliver Velez
This is a complicated piece of data, but it reveals something relatively simple. An unarmed black or brown person in America is much more likely to be killed by a police officer than an unarmed white person.

Research conducted by The Guardian found that, from January through the end of May 2015, 15 percent of the white Americans killed by police were unarmed, compared to 25 percent of the Latinos and 32 percent of the African Americans killed. In terms of overall numbers, Latinos represented 14 percent of all Americans killed by police (slightly lower than their overall percentage of the population), while 29 percent were black (about 13 percent of the population), and 50 percent were white (about 64 percent of the population).

There exists, as yet, no official federal data on police killings, something the co-chair of President Obama’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing, Laurie Robinson, called "troubling." As for the disparities found by The Guardian, Amnesty International USA's Executive Director, Steven Hawkins, characterized them as "startling," and added: "The disparity speaks to something that needs to be examined, to get to the bottom of why you’re twice as likely to be shot if you’re an unarmed black male."

Finally, here's a comment from a person devastated by the kind of police abuse this disparity represents:

"Giving this kind of data to the public is a big thing, said Erica Garner, whose father’s killing by police in New York City last year led to international protests. "Other incidents like murders and robberies are counted, so why not police-involved killings? With better records, we can look at what is happening and what might need to change."
Why not, indeed?

(h/t greenbird)

Reposted from Daily Kos by Denise Oliver Velez
 Title: [Smoke billowing over Tulsa, Oklahoma during 1921 race riots] Creator(s): Alvin C. Krupnick Co., photographer Date Created/Published: [1921]
Smoke billowing over Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1921
The Oklahoma "where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain" didn't smell of wheat. It smelled of over 300 dead black bodies, homes and businesses burned in a white massacre of black Americans, in the Greenwood suburb of Tulsa, Oklahoma, which started on May 31 in 1921.
35 square blocks of homes and businesses were torched by mobs of angry whites. ... Over 600 successful businesses were lost. An estimated eight thousand citizens were homeless. Over one thousand two hundred homes destroyed.
It's been labelled as "The Destruction of Black Wall Street" or "The Tulsa Riot." I prefer the first rather than the latter, since the way that "riot" tends to be constructed when blacks are involved, casts blame on the victims, rather than the perpetrators. To this day there has been no justice or reparations for the few living survivors. It took "80 years before the survivors of the riot even got an official apology from the city of Tulsa. Mayor Kathy Taylor held a “celebration of conscience” and honored with a medal each of the survivors the city could contact."

Expat Okie wrote about the legislative struggles in both Oklahoma and in Congress. Congressman John Conyers (D-MI) has repeatedly submitted bills attempting to achieve reparations with the John Hope Franklin Tulsa-Greenwood Riot Accountability Act, to no avail.

Follow me below the fold for more.

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Reposted from DocDawg by Denise Oliver Velez

...or maybe you just weren't alive to the awesome power and the awful responsibility of fusion politics back then. I know I sure wasn't.

Perhaps you've admired North Carolina's Forward Together Moral Monday Movement from afar? Then join us! This will be not 'just another' Moral Monday, and not merely a Tarheel affair, but rather an historic nationwide gathering. Please consider standing side-by-side with us on July 13th in Winston-Salem, NC to demonstrate your commitment to defending the right to vote.

For a detailed background on why this day and this event are so critically important, please see this diary. Stay tuned to the NC NAACP's web site for details. Our own MsSpentyouth has graciously agreed to be DKos members' point person for this historic event. Me, I'll be the bubba with manure on his boots, lookin' a mite outta place.

NC NAACP's Mass Moral March for voting rights, July 13 2015, Winston-Salem, NC

Fri May 29, 2015 at 01:00 PM PDT

Black Kos, Week In Review

by Black Kos

Commentary: African American Scientists and Inventors
by Black Kos Editor, Sephius1

Henry Ransom Cecil McBay (1914–1995) was an African - American chemist and a teacher.

McBay was born "Henry Ransom McBay" (named from his maternal grandfather, Henry Ransom) in 1914 in Mexia, Texas. His father, William Cecil McBay, was a barber who eventually became an embalmer and funeral director; his mother, Roberta Ransom (McBay), was a seamstress.

McBay was able to receive a good education because of his proficiency in math. He was able to gain admission to Wiley College in Marshall, Texas, and paid for his education by working in the college’s dining-hall and post office. Inspired by his math and chemistry professors, McBay studied organic chemistry and earned his B.S. degree in 1934. His Wiley professors helped him acquire a scholarship to Atlanta to work on his next degree.

With only $1.65 in his pocket, McBay immediately took a job in the Atlanta University dining hall so he could eat. After only a few days on campus, his faculty advisor, Professor K. A. Huggins, arranged for him to work in the chemistry laboratory.

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Reposted from SpiritSisters by Denise Oliver Velez
Graphic image of multicultural women by artist Michelle Robonson
Graphic by Michelle Robinson.  Used by permission of the artist.
Activist women have walked many different paths, and have come from many different places and life experiences to get to where we are today. We are bound together in a shared spirit that transcends race, ethnicity and class. We are sisters.  

Hear our voices.


SpiritSisters: Writing In Women's Voices is a group of women from all walks of life who have come together to tell our stories and discuss women's issues and rights. We come from every ethnic group, from multiple sexual orientations and gender identities, from a broad spectrum of ability status, from a wide array of socioeconomic classes, and from a diversity of traditions and cultures – spiritual, religious, and secular.  

Dominant culture narratives do not represent our lives; they elide, alter, and erase.  We are sisters in spirit, and we are taking back our narratives. We are joining together in a circle of mutual trust and support to share our stories, our histories, our identities, our very selves, as individual women and as members of all of the diverse communities and intersections where we live — and doing so in our own voices.

We discuss the harms women experience when the dominant culture does not accurately consider, believe or hear women's voices.

We will also celebrate and share the strengths of our sisters in struggle, and the stories of women who are making a difference.

 SpiritSisters will be posting Thursday 4:30 pm (Pacific)/7:30 pm (Eastern) each week, and additional postings when members have time available. We are sending email notices (BCC to ensure privacy of email addresses) when diaries are posted. If you would like to join our email list, please kosmail rb137.

If you are interested in hearing our voices and reading our stories, we ask that you click "Follow."



Andrea Spande, Denise Oliver Velez, Diogenes2008, JoanMar, kishik, mixedbag, moviemeister76, nomandates, Onomastic, Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, peregrine kate, poco, ramara, rb137, shanikka, TexMex, TrueBlueMajority, Vita Brevis, and Yasuragi.

Daily Kos has always been host to the voices of wide range of women. Many Daily Kos editors and staff members are female. Daily Kos hosts a current series "This Week in the War on Women," which provides a weekly summary of news on women's issues and information on current political actions." Women on Daily Kos are individual diarists, commenters, administrators of community groups, rescue rangers, fund raisers for those in need, and readers.

We feel that we need a space here for you to hear our individual voices, telling our herstories of both joy and pain. We realize that not all women are feminists, and not all women are progressive, but we know the path to making that change is open through education and sharing from the heart. We are also aware that the culture we live in has erected barriers between and among women, and those men who support our struggles.

We SpiritSisters as a group, are resolved to celebrate difference, break through barriers, and to promote and build solidarity with love and respect.

Please join us in this effort.


Tue May 26, 2015 at 03:04 PM PDT

Cartoon: All lives matter*

by keefknight

Reposted from Comics by Denise Oliver Velez

Krazy sale at!

Support ye olde gentleman cartoonist at Patreon!

Black Kos logo
Thoughts about Black Kos, (with a poll)

Commentary by Black Kos Editor Denise Oliver-Velez

After reading and responding to many of the detailed and thoughtful comments, in "How did you begin to unlearn racism?" on Sunday—some from people I've never seen comments from before, and others who I know are regular members or readers of Black Kos—it got me to thinking. We have an excellent resource right here at Daily Kos, for unlearning racism—a Black Kos community in which a majority of readers and members are white (even though assumptions are often made that they are black—just 'cause they are here) who have a real interest in interacting at Daily Kos with black folks and other people of color, and staying on top of news, and views from the black diaspora.

This comment from Black Kos community member joedemocrat touched me, and I thank him for making it.

Hi Denise and everyone (9+ / 0-)

I'll answer your question honestly as I can....

When I came to Daily Kos, I could recognize overt racism, but not the subtle kind. I had never heard the term white privilege or other terms. Also, I did not know how it was embedded or about issues like police brutality, and mass incarceration, etc..

I grew up in a small town in the midwest that was all white. I had high school teachers who were bothered by the idea of interracial marriage. I knew people who were furious there was an organization called NAACP thinking it a reverse form of racism.

People may say they aren't racist. But they support racist policies and racist politicians and political parties.

My mother didn't have those beliefs, so it wasn't taught at home. She was born in the early 1930's in Germany. She knew both poverty and war. She was a strong Democrat -
as strong as they come.

There were WWII Veterans who didn't like us. I was made fun of in school.

Also, unfortunately I had a verbally abusive father.

This has made me want to stick up for the underdog and the oppressed. That probably gave me an open mind to learn.

I feel I am slower to pick up on non-overt racism than you or others who participate in Black Kos are. I try to follow. If you or other Black Kos regulars are bothered by something and I don't understand, instead of thinking you overreacted I try to listen and learn.

We are all who we are politically due to our life experiences. Those experiences will be different. We can all relate best to ourselves and those like us. But sometimes you have to stop and ask yourself "What was it like to walk in these people's shoes?"  And one reason this country is in so much trouble is very few people can do that. Oppression seems normalized in many ways. Anytime a group gets any kind of privileged status, they become disconnected from those who don't.

I think it is important to build bridges too because we are always stronger together than as individuals. And there are so many problems we need to work together.

In that effort to build bridges, and to look at where we've been and where we are today, we'd like to hear from you regulars but also those who "lurk" and read but may not comment.  

It's been several years since I posted "A question for Kossaks (with poll)," which was followed by Black Kos, Tuesday's Chile: roll call and lurker come-out edition, which garnered 615 comments and 127 recommends. I decided it is time to do it again.

We have two new editors, Joan Mar and ChitownKev, (yay!) and new readers too.

First a little history:
For those of you who are not Daily Kos "old timers," Black Kos, was founded by dopper0189, on Tue Jan 02, 2007, as an open thread, which evolved into Black Kos: weekly round up, and then became Black Kos: Week in review.  On Fri Mar 21, 2008 dopper published "My last Black Kos week in review diary," and Black Kos as a UID was born.

As you can see from reading this diary, Black Kos is "going community" on you! Starting next week Black Kos will be a group effort, Robinswing, Sephius1, Terrypinder, and myself will collaborate on writing "Black Kos week in review" diaries. The new home starting next week will be at Black Kos. Thank you Markos and Meteor Blades for giving us permission to do so (and understanding this isn't a "sockpuppet" but a community effort). So in the future please hotlist "Black Kos". Thank you everyone who read and helped make this diary possible, I will still be around as dopper0189, but the week in review will now be done by the group ID Black Kos. Once again thank you everyone!
Black Kos currently has 765 followers, and the Black Kos community, was founded in 2011.

Black Kos has gone through some amazing highs over time, and our most recommended  diary was ***Update: Statement of Opposition to Racist Labels Used by Kossacks to Criticize President Obama, with 2524 comments, 983 recommends, posted on April 16, 2013, followed immediately by Continued: Statement of Opposition to Racist Labels Used by Kossacks to Criticize President Obama, because the first diary became almost impossible to open.

We've been through meta, and pie wars, ups and downs, and each year end dopper0189  (David-who we affectionately call "Chief") publishes a Black Kos Year in Review.

We've covered the earthquake in Haiti, news out of Africa, and the ongoing protests and reactions to the killings of black folks here at home, as well as electoral politics, history, science, medicine, the environment, music, art, poetry, film and television.

Now we would like to hear from you—our readers.  

Please take the poll at the bottom of the diary, and we hope some of you will de-lurk to say hello.  We'd like to hear from regular members too, about when and why you joined.

One of the things we learned in the last poll was that many people don't comment because they feel they "don't want to intrude" in a "black space," not realizing that this is an integrated space with more white than black members.

If you would like an invitation to join, let us know in comments.  You can also check the heart next to Black Kos up top to follow us.

I just want to add yet another thank-you to our Chief—for having sustained this series for so long, to previous editors, and most of all to our readers and members.

See you on the porch.


How have you been involved with Black Kos?

7%12 votes
26%40 votes
9%14 votes
33%51 votes
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| 152 votes | Vote | Results

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Reposted from chaunceydevega by Denise Oliver Velez

Memorial Day was a tradition inaugurated after the American Civil War by (now) freed black Americans. Black America's history is American history, even while too many of those who are invested in the herrenvolk White dream and past of America in the present are dedicated to erasing such a basic fact from our schools, libraries, and other centers of learning.

Senior historian Dr. David Blight wrote a fine essay on Memorial Day's origins for The New York Times in 2011. It is still worth revisiting on this day.

But, did you know that the Confederacy is also included in Memorial Day celebrations? Moreover, that Barack Obama, the United States' first President who happens to be black has continued with a tradition where the White House sends a wreath to the Confederate Monument in Arlington?

Germany had the good sense to confront its Nazi past. yet, in the United States, the Confederacy, a treasonous rebellion that fought for white supremacy and to keep millions of black people as human property, is still celebrated and honored.

The Confederate flag is the American Swastika, the name of the founder of the KKK, Nathan Bedford Forrest, is still on schools and street signs in the South, and the White Right still embraces the language and iconography of the Confederacy as they bemoan and attempt to usurp Barack Obama's legitimacy and authority.

One of Blight's peers, Dr. James McPherson, along with other prominent historians and academics, sent a letter to Barack Obama in 2009 in which they suggested that he stop honoring the Confederates and their white supremacist cause on Memorial Day:

Early in President Obama’s first term, a group of academics that included prominent Civil War historian James McPherson asked him to end the tradition of sending a Memorial Day wreath to the Confederate Monument in Arlington, which they felt represented “the nadir of American race relations” and “a denial of the wrong committed against African Americans by slave owners, Confederates, and neo-Confederates, through the monument’s denial of slavery as the cause of secession and its holding up of Confederates as heroes.”

Obama opted instead to send wreaths both to the Confederate memorial and to the African American Civil War Memorial in the U Street neighborhood.

The matter of how and if the Confederacy should be honored on Memorial Day remains unresolved.

In Virginia, a group of Confederate sympathizers is upset that a local church will not allow them to fly the American Swastika during this year's Memorial Day celebrations:

John Branson is the current rector of Christ Church Episcopal in Old Town Alexandria, where Robert E. Lee worshipped and where 34 Confederate soldiers are still buried. Every year on May 24, the local branch of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, wearing their grays and bearing rebel flags, would hold a Confederate Memorial Day service. Branson says the rector before him put an end to the tradition. “The church has suggested that they take their ceremonies elsewhere.”

One member of the Confederate group calls the change of policy “intolerant.”

The parish still permits the group to hold a quiet wreath-laying ceremony in the churchyard but prohibits any display of Confederate regalia. “They have a full, formal color guard that they’d like to use, but they continue to display the Confederate flag, and we find that offensive,” Branson says.

Justice is so askew in America, that white supremacist sympathizers now complain that they are treated in an "intolerant" manner. Oh, I so dream of the day when that is in fact the rule in the United States.

Brother Doctor Martin Luther King Junior famously said that the arc of justice is long. Perhaps the arc of justice also has an ironic sense of humor as a black man who is President of the United States now sends a wreath to "honor" those who fought to keep people who look like him as human property, to be raped, murdered, tortured, and labor and wealth extracted from their bodies and souls in the service of white supremacist capitalist expansion and greed.

The secesh trash are likely rolling over in their graves at the thought of a black man being President of the United States. Alexander Stephen's white supremacist "Cornerstone Speech" is no comfort as their bones rot and they receive honorifics from a black man named Barack Obama, he who is the leader of a multicultural corporate democracy.

Reposted from Daily Kos by Denise Oliver Velez
United States Army Private First Class William K. Nakamura, Medal of Honor recipient
United States Army Private First Class William K. Nakamura, U.S. Medal of Honor recipient, awarded posthumously.
In "The Memorial Day history forgot: The Martyrs of the Race Course," I wrote last year about the not very well known African-American roots of Memorial Day. In recent years, some media attention has been paid to the long history of Black military service—from the Revolutionary War, including Haitians who fought for us, through the civil war, in films like Glory, and the Tuskegee Airmen in World War II—no matter the racism we faced, and still face in this country.  

We hear less about other soldiers of color—Asian, Native American and Latino who died for us, who also faced, and still face discrimination within our shores.

Pictured above is William Kenzo Nakamura (January 21, 1922-July 4, 1944).

He was a United States Army soldier and a recipient of the United States military's highest decoration—the Medal of Honor—for his actions in World War II.

Nakamura was born in Seattle to Japanese immigrant parents. He is a Nisei, which means that he is a second generation Japanese-American. His family was interned in Minidoka in Idaho during World War II. Nakamura volunteered to be part of the all-Nisei 442nd Regimental Combat Team. This army unit was mostly made up of Japanese Americans from Hawaii and the mainland.

On July 4, 1944, Nakamura was serving as a private first class in the 442nd Regimental Combat Team. On that day, near Castellina, Italy, he single-handedly destroyed an enemy machine gun emplacement and later volunteered to cover his unit's withdrawal. He was then killed while attacking another machine gun nest which was firing on his platoon

Follow me below the fold for more of this memorial history.
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Reposted from The Justice Department on Netroots by justiceputnam

Justice Putnam photo Tri City Park Close Up_zpsmdsioxfq.jpg

The Justice Department is on Netroots Sundays 8pm to 9pm Pacific. Powered by Unity Radio Net!

I'm Special Agent DJ Justice; Radio Host and Program Director for Netroots Radio; and I'm manning the dials, spinning the discs, warbling the woofers, putting a slip in your hip and a trip to your hop.

The playlist for Sunday 24 May 15 8pm to 9pm Pacific Edition of The Justice Department: Musique sans Frontieres

 ~~ "The Streets of His Soldier Mind" ~~

1 - War -- "Slippin' Into Darkness"
2 - Sly and The Family Stone -- "Family Affair"
3 - Counting Crows -- "Colorblind"
4 - Living Colour -- "Burned Bridges"
5 - Nina Simone -- "Wild is the Wind"
6 - Michael Franti and Spearhead -- "Soulshine"

Station Break

7 - Alison Krauss -- "Can't Find My Way Home"
8 - Santana -- "Europa"
9 - Miriam Makeba -- "Mbube"
10 - Mamadou Diabaté  -- "Tunga"
11 - Red Hot Chili Peppers -- "Castles Made Of Sand"
12 - Dengue Fever -- "Uku"

Who luvs ya, baby?


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Reposted from Digging up those Facts ... for over 8 years. by a2nite

Americans used to have rights. Primarily the Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Also we supposedly have the the right to be "secure from unreasonable searches and seizures of property by the government" -- "without warrant or probable cause."

It seems in some sections of America however, rogue police officers and the one-sided courts, have effectively made these American Rights -- null and void -- with respect to any common sense understanding of these rights.

It's kind of hard to "pursue happiness" -- when you've just been shot 137 times!

When can police use lethal force against a fleeing suspect? -- April 8, 2015


Can police officers shoot at fleeing individuals?

Only in very narrow circumstances. A seminal 1985 Supreme Court case, Tennessee vs. Garner, held that the police may not shoot at a fleeing person unless the officer reasonably believes that the individual poses a significant physical danger to the officer or others in the community. That means officers are expected to take other, less-deadly action during a foot or car pursuit unless the person being chased is seen as an immediate safety risk.

In other words, a police officer who fires at a fleeing man who a moment earlier murdered a convenience store clerk may have reasonable grounds to argue that the shooting was justified. But if that same robber never fired his own weapon, the officer would likely have a much harder argument.

You don’t shoot fleeing felons. You apprehend them unless there are exigent circumstances -- emergencies -- that require urgent police action to safeguard the community as a whole,” said Greg Gilbertson, a police practices expert and criminal justice professor at Centralia College in Washington state.

Am I creating more of a danger by chasing this person than if I let this person stay at large?” Drago said. “Especially in a vehicle pursuit, is it worth risking everyone on the road to catch this guy?”

Good questions.  When do Police in "hot pursuit" -- become a bigger problem, than the one they are supposedly chasing?

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