Forget debt ceiling; Next GOVT shutdown is where battle must be waged

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Thursday August 04, 2011 · 9:03 AM PDT

2011/08/04 · 09:03

Pres. Obama was in no win situation from the get go on debt ceiling fight. Tea Party repugs were hell bent on no compromise notwithstanding the consequences, because at the end of the day, if there was a default, it was STILL Pres. Obama who they can say was at the helm and let the govt AAA rating be lost on his watch for the first time, as well as potential for Dow tanking 50 %, worldwide depression, etc. which WOULD have happened. And if that off the cliff calamity happened, he loses in 2012; no matter what.

Obama didn;t do great on the stand off, but he managed to barely get enought to live to fight another day; his poll ratings are slipping, but he at least has a shot.

HOWEVER, there is another fight coming, already discussed, that will cause pain to alot of people, but not US Default/world wide depression, and that's the budget/potential government shutdown that could happen in September.

Because there are huge ramifications there, but not as dire global/financial dangers, it is HERE where OBAMA MUST fight "until the last dog dies" as Clinton used to say. He must wage a fight againt the Repugs no matter what the cost; government shutown, delay in checks, lay offs, etc..

WHY? (see on the flipside)

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Sunday January 30, 2011 · 1:26 PM PST

2011/01/30 · 13:26

One of the major reasons why OBAMA should back tranfer of power from Murabek to ElBaradei in Egypt is his prior experience- he was the prior director of UN Nuke Prol Program, and at that time recall he said IRAQ was not necessarly involved in Nukes, and to NOT INVADE IRAQ. This would be kick in the pants top Bushies/repugs if he now took over and lead Democratic process in Egypt. At the same time he is not radical muslim, but Nobel peace prize recipient, reasonable, and has the populations sympathies and support.

More below fold

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Saturday January 08, 2011 · 7:32 PM PST

2011/01/08 · 19:32

Please talk me down. I am so angry, saddened, and filled with rage and hate because of the shooting of Cong. Gabrielle Giffords and the Judge that I sadly want vengence against the right.

We have been the side of reasoned arguments while the vile tea party and the hate filled right wing media have spewed hate, advocated violence, shouted down the President, and we have just turned the other cheek.

I have been one here who has advocated compromise, moderation, deals, in the face of their hatred.

However, this second, I have such contempt for the other side right now I cant see straight.

Talk me down; these feelings are wrong- but this second, I hate them, I feel what they feel towards us now- IO have the same rage they have sepwed at us; it is ugly, but they have bated me.

How long will this last; how can it end. I dont know. I pray these vile fealings wont last. Help friends.

PS Cong Giffords was (is)a wonderful person, and representative.

How dear they- and it was THEY- tea Party, Rush, Hannity, Right Wing, who did this, not just him.

I have felt this was coming for Months- This is Dallas Oct 1963 again- its been and is in the air.

I THINK DADT IS GOING TO PASS-SEE CSPAN 2!!!

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Saturday December 18, 2010 · 7:56 AM PST

2010/12/18 · 07:56

Been watching C-Span the Last hour. I have been worried even though it seemed we had 62 Senators (need 60 to get cloture (allow proceed to vote on bill) I have been worried claims about rushing, no amendments, START interference, etc.) would cause this to come up just short at the end.

However, this morning, I think we might be there. Why:

WEBB (Dem) confirms just now he will support (got a letter from Gates today confirming some of his implementation concerns.)

LINDSEY GRAHAM (Rep) - He is PO'd !!! His tone suggests he KNOWS it will pass; he is railing on about this is bad for the Senate, it will cause long lasting hurt fealings, etc.

MCCAIN (Rep) He is cranky mad, saying this is wrong, not fair, no amendments, I have two (wont be looked at) I beleive he also just said the DADT repeal will be passed.

READING TEA LEAVES- BUT I THINK THIS MAY JUST PASS IN THE NEXT HOUR!!!

CHECK OUT C-SPAN II.

If it does, we all need to thank alot of people, INCLUDING

JOE LIEBERMAN
PRES. OBAMA - He was right, dont use courts, get this thru Congress
11th dimensional chess is still in play

Why Do Progressives hate the Tax Deal- POLL?

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Saturday December 11, 2010 · 9:20 AM PST

2010/12/11 · 09:20

I'm a progressive/Centrist Dem, supported and worked for Obama from Day 1, and though I am not pleased about the Obama tax deal I grudgingly support it. (I think its pragmatic, the best we can get, has alot of goodies for Dems in return (unemployment, write offs, payroll tax cut, etc) and is ONLY 2 years so we can get economy going and then fight this all out in 2012.

But I get that I am sorely outnumbered on this here.

What I think should be analyzed is WHY do progressives hate the deal? Is it because the millionare tax credit blows a bigger hole in the deficit? (we never cared that much about deficts before, esp as to tax, spend, stimulus issues). Is it because of the estate tax breaks are too high (that would seem more rational). Or is it just the idea of we caved too soon to Repugs rather than "fight" them. This seems to be just a desire for blood lust rather that a real TACTICAL decision for 2011-2012 fight which is coming up. By voicing our reasons as to WHY we hate/are fighting the deal (which tactict itself no doubt weakens Obama (our current DEM president), maybe we can steer debate/get some changes.

UPDATE:

MAJOR SHOCK WAS ONLY 5 % say chief complaint as estate tax- thats seems to be what HOUSE DEMS are particularly upset about (publicly)

Poll

232 votes Show Results

Why do you hate the Tax Deal?

232 votes Vote Now!

Why do you hate the Tax Deal?

Tax extension also goes to over $ 250,000- unacceptable

35 votes

Estate Tax compromise numbers- too generous

6 votes

It blows a hole in the deficit in total

23 votes

We just caved to Repugs on this- I want to fight them

15 votes

There should be NO tax cut extension, let em ALL go up

39 votes

The unemployment ext, and other add ons are not big enough

3 votes

The payroll tax reduction is bad, not good- threat to SocSec

63 votes

I grudgingly support the compromise

40 votes

I wholeheartedly support the compromise

8 votes

EVERY DAMN DEM WHO VOTED FOR BUSH TAXES IN 2001 and 2003- BETTER SHUT THE FU

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Tuesday December 07, 2010 · 8:58 AM PST

2010/12/07 · 08:58

EVERY DAMN DEM WHO VOTED FOR BUSH TAXES IN 2001 and 2003- BETTER SHUT TFU

And that goes for every Dem in 2010 BEFORE the election who would not put the under 250,000 tax cut to a vote- Pelosi, Senate Dems etc (because they were afraid they would lose) Where were they 3 months ago, THATS when we needed their push

Obama got AS MUCH AS HE COULD- we lose the House and all ability to control any legislation in January.

We will re fight this again in 2012 election- I will fight with Obama for re election - Dems can do the same, or see Pres. Romney, Huckabee, or ugh-Palin

Repugs backed bush lockstep until the end (even the last year)thats why they have seized alot of power the last 30 years

There wont be pres Dean, Grayson, or Feingold- (the last 2 didnt even win there 2010 elections)

Lets MAN UP, consent to this, and start fighting repugs from here to 2012

What SHould Dems Do on Taxes Now

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Saturday December 04, 2010 · 12:18 PM PST

2010/12/04 · 12:18

Dems and Obama have been boxed in by Bush temp tax cuts, 2010 elections, fear, and Obama weakness. We now had the under $ 250,000 vote (too late, should have been before the election), which won lame duck house, and lost lame duck senate (fillibuster). Poticallty, what do Dems/Obama due now? hese seem to be options

Let them all expire- My fear, either Repugs in 2011 pass version to extend them all, and dems/Oama either get forced to do that, or if all tax cuts expire, tax rates will rise, even for middle class, AND ecomony could slow down more- 9-10 % unemployment in 2012 means Repug wins presidence and congress.

Compromise- Take the deal, 2-3 year extension of ALL rates, BUT obtain 1 year of unempoyment insurance, maybe Start, DADT, Dream

Don't love it, BUT at least ecomny wont dovetail, taxesstay the same for middle class, and we get a shot of the other legislation that wont pass in 2011. In effect, OBAMA BUYS a shot at reelection (by adding to Deficit) and we get some other items, AND we force the issue as part of 2012 election to run on.

Poll

74 votes Show Results

What Should Dems/Obama Do about Bush Tax NOW

74 votes Vote Now!

What Should Dems/Obama Do about Bush Tax NOW

let them all expire

55 votes

2 year extension for all, but get 1 year unemploment, DADT, Start, etc.

13 votes

3 year extenstion with same items

5 votes

permanent extension for all

1 vote

OBAMA Should cut back on TSA Screening- Dont Give this issue to repugs

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Saturday November 20, 2010 · 11:02 AM PST

2010/11/20 · 11:02

The TSA screenings are patently rediculous. Nude scans of nuns; groping mens "junk"; feeling up women with cancer. Its all overkill. dems used to rail against Bush invasive tactics (and it fell on deaf ears), but now with this superscan and these feel you up TSA reps its over the top and everyone is howling.

Why are repugs (but not dems)on wrong side of this.

Repugs have always been against govt involveemnt/tin foil, etc- Dems seized back that issue (uncharecteristically) when Bush went overboard.
Why are Dems ceding it back (just because Obama is President)he doesn't have to out bush bush on this.

TSA rules could be cut back to where they were 6 months ago (get rid of those scanners) without any greater risk. OBAMA- stop the insanity

Poll

124 votes Show Results

Should Obama/TSA cut back on new Airport screening

124 votes Vote Now!

Should Obama/TSA cut back on new Airport screening

No- keep all the new rules/scanners- its needed

14 votes

Yes- order scanners out, AND stop the way intrusive pat downs they just started

97 votes

Yes, get rid of scanners, but keep new pat down rules only

0 votes

Yes, force use of new scanners, but stop the agreesive pat downs

13 votes

OBAMA needs to stop being so cautious

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Saturday November 13, 2010 · 12:51 PM PST

2010/11/13 · 12:51

Obama has tried on every issue to be center left, but cautious in every choice, compromising to get legislation past, but seeming to cave on certain issues to get the job done w/out being bold: Heath care (but no public option) fin reform (but breaks for the banks), stimulus (but heavy on tax cuts), and apparently now on temp tax cuts for all.

Alot of us (including me) have supported him on this, because he got passed alot of generally good legislation.

However, he has gotten ZERO credit from the right for being moderate, and his base is getting wobbily because of the compromising.

I really think he need to take risk and be bold- or he will lose in 2012.

Maybe on tax cuts (veto if not decoupled), or other issues DADT, etc, but he needs to take some risk and be bold on SOMETHING, FAST.

Dont be Too Hard on Temp Extension of All Bush Tax Cuts- Think it thru

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Thursday November 11, 2010 · 3:49 PM PST

2010/11/11 · 15:49

Obama probably will call for temp extension of ALL tax cuts. This might work. Note, I vigorously wanted a PRE ELECTION vote on only the under $ 250,000 Obama Tax Cut- but dems lost their spine, and lost election

Everything from this Point on is framing, agressively attacking, while protecting your flanks and playing Defense where necessary. Obama has little leverage, BUT, here are the issues:

Temp tax cut for all/kick the can, does at least keep middle class cuts, and allows ecomony to not bear brunt of even more contraction;

It also keeps repugs away from their balanced budget mantra, and when they DO object to stimulus ideas like unemployment extesnion, DEMS can argue-but you jammed these MILLIONAIRE tax cuts down publics throat, where was thought on deficit then;

THEN, Obama can demand/threaten veto on Health Care spening pullback, (over)

Poll

105 votes Show Results

Knowing Obama HAS NO VOTES to decouple the tax cuts, what should he do

105 votes Vote Now!

Knowing Obama HAS NO VOTES to decouple the tax cuts, what should he do

Let all tax cuts (even good ones) expire-

35 votes

Try to get decouple tax cuts votes (and lost that vote)- Loser meme spreads

3 votes

Temp extension of all tax cuts

46 votes

Veto any non decoupled tax cut bill

18 votes

Sit back, do nothing

3 votes

I was going to Nevada for Voter protection; now forget it; TaxCut

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Friday September 24, 2010 · 1:22 PM PDT

2010/09/24 · 13:22

I was going to suck it up and go to Nevada for voter protection in November, figure Reid (Sen) and Titus (house) were two of the closest races and if House/Senate control was in the balance that this could swing the balance.

BUT with Reid caving on putting Middle class Tax cuts out for a vote BEFORE election- WUSS, Im outta there.

Fear in House and Senate is sick. Better to put these votes up and lose but fight the good fight.

I'm not mad; Im like that lady questioning Obama few days ago; tired, disslusioned, depressed. I'll vote, but I think thats it.

If Pelosi puts this up for vote PRE election, I may come back.

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Wednesday September 22, 2010 · 8:40 AM PDT

2010/09/22 · 08:40

The writing is on the wall- Repugs will probably pick up 30-50 House seats in Nov, but that 20 seat spread (and thus CONTROL of House) is still razor thin. (Dem are still incumbents, generics improving slightly, Dems more money, etc).

KEY PROBLEM ALL YEAR- Repugs have HUGE motivation gap.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION-
Dems should push for more Dems asking/getting absentee ballots. Different states/different rules (in Califonria, if a voter asks for absentee (a few months ahead), he can get one- fairly easy). This could be crucial in Nov- The repugs are so motivated they will wait in line for hours at polls to vote; Dems (the silent, dejected majority) wont go to the polls, but MAY still be willing to spend 10 minutes at home filling out absentee ballots and mail them in.

I will be looking into logistics of this; can we get some help.

WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE TO HOLD DOWN THE LOSSES

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Forget debt ceiling; Next GOVT shutdown is where battle must be waged

OBAMA should back EGYPT switch to El Baradei

I am so Angry, Sad, hateful about Cong Giffords shooting

I THINK DADT IS GOING TO PASS-SEE CSPAN 2!!!

Why Do Progressives hate the Tax Deal- POLL?

EVERY DAMN DEM WHO VOTED FOR BUSH TAXES IN 2001 and 2003- BETTER SHUT THE FU

What SHould Dems Do on Taxes Now

OBAMA Should cut back on TSA Screening- Dont Give this issue to repugs

OBAMA needs to stop being so cautious

Dont be Too Hard on Temp Extension of All Bush Tax Cuts- Think it thru

I was going to Nevada for Voter protection; now forget it; TaxCut

Dem Apathy- To Hold House, push absentee ballots