Daily Kos

Democrats are Dittoheads

Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 11:23:18 PM PDT

As many of you know, through the use of Google News, I have been monitoring total media coverage of every candidate since August. During that time, three campaign stories received by far the most coverage. In order, those stories were:
  1. John Kerry's victory in the Iowa Caucuses (1/19-1/24)
  2. Al Gore's endorsement of Howard Dean (12/07-12/14)
  3. Wesley Clark's entry into the race (9/16-9/26)
All three of these stories were very positive to the candidate in question. With the date of these three stories in mind, examine schwa's remarkable chart that tracks the five-poll moving average of national polls on the Democratic field. What you will see in schwa's chart is that Clark moved up around ten points at the same time positive stories about the General were swamping the media. Further, you will notice that Dean also saw a roughly ten-point upswing during the news cycle when he was endorsed by Gore.  Now consider Kerry's national poll movement immediately after the Iowa caucuses (All numbers taken from polling report):

Fox News
Kerry before Iowa: 7
Kerry After Iowa: 29

Newsweek
Kerry before Iowa: 11
Kerry after Iowa: 30

Q-poll
Before: 8
After: 30

Overall, Kerry saw a national bounce of around 20 points immediately after he won Iowa. Considering what appears to be a clear correlation between massive, positive news stories and huge swings in nationwide Democratic preference in all three of these cases, I draw the following, depressing conclusion: Democrats are Dittoheads who will do whatever the Political Opinion Complex tells them to do.

In a recent diary entry, "The Blogosphere Rebellion," I theorized that the long-term trend of pollsters becoming political consultants, consultants becoming television pundits / major newspaper columnists, and pollsters becoming television pundits / major newspaper columnists has almost erased the difference between what were at one time three distinct groups of people. The resulting connection between the three has led to the rise of what I refer to as the Political Opinion Complex. The POC has grown to hold nearly absolute sway over the way political issues, events, and campaigns are portrayed to the vast majority of the American public.

According to a very recent Pew survey, 68% of Americans still use television as their primary source of campaign news, and 15% use newspapers as their primary source (radio was at 7%, the Internet at a rapidly growing 6%). Perhaps the most disturbing thing about television's still dominant hold over campaign information is that television coverage of the campaign has dropped off sharply over the past decade. According to another recent study, in this case conducted by The Center for Media and Public Affairs, "the networks spent 5 hours and 20 minutes covering the election's preseason in 2003, a 32 percent drop in coverage from the 2000 campaign (7:49), in which both party's nominations were contested--and a 62 percent drop from 1996 (14:02), the last time only one party's nomination was contested." While television's control over the flow of political information remains as strong as ever, the amount of information television releases to the public about politics and campaigns has been greatly reduced.

It is my thesis that the tremendous reduction in campaign coverage by televised news led to extremely soft nationwide support of each of the nine candidates. The soft nature of this support is demonstrated by the wild sings in national polls following each of the three major news stories during this campaign season. By reducing overall campaign coverage and restricting the amount of information given about the candidates, networks and newspapers have softened support for all candidates to a degree never before witnessed during the primary season. This has in turn granted even greater control over the nominating process to the Political Opinion Complex, which can now completely transform the campaign by intensely focusing upon a single major story.  To put it in more colorful language, in conjunction with the corporate media, the Political Opinion Complex has starved the Democratic electorate of campaign information to the point where they will eat up anything put in front of them. Whether that meal is Clark, Dean, or Kerry, the public is simply far too hungry to choose.

Sadly, this state of affairs has turned the Democratic electorate into dittoheads. We will vote however the POC tells us to vote. We jump at a resume when we are told to jump, we join a movement when we are told to join, we will accept a southern strategy when we are told to accept, and we believe in electability when we are told to believe. We will sell-out unions if we are told it will help us win. We will go to war if we think it will appeal in the south. We will abandon urban renewal if we are told it won't play in Middle America.  We will stamp out volunteer movements if we are told they won't lead to corporate donations. Although it primarily exists outside and above the party, The Political Opinion Complex wields significantly more control over the Democratic Party than any institution supposedly "inside" of it.  

In order to reduce the increasing control of the Political Opinion complex over our political process, we need to begin developing and strengthening institutions strong enough to counter its current influence. Specifically, we need to further develop networks where political information can be mass distributed outside of the POC's control. Not long ago, there were several such outside institutions. Unions and churches were a far more pervasive part of people's lives. Newspapers and periodicals were significantly more numerous and varied in their political outlook. Public television and radio had far larger audiences. Political parties and societies were either machines or at least overflowing with active members. All of these now weakened institutions once served as means to perform end-runs outside the control of the corporate media and the Political Opinion Complex. Engagement with the political process through means other than television was far greater. However, those institutions no longer serve as significant counter-weights to the strength of the Political Opinion Complex

Even though it appears that Dean's attempt to perform just such an end-run around the POC through the use of the netroots and the blogosphere is on the verge of failure (even though I'm not giving up), in my estimation his campaign has left a tremendous amount of hope in its wake. Over the past year, a number of counter-institutions have begun to form that can serve as a means to lessen the influence of the POC. In particular, I see no reason to believe that the phenomenal rise of the independent, left-wing blogosphere shows any signs of slowing down. As our readership grows, so will the power of the information we distribute. Secondly, Moveon.org and Meetups for the Democratic Party and Common Cause continue to increase in size. Building networks around organizations instead of individuals will undoubtedly result greater strength over the long-term. Personally, over the next year, I hope to help start a Meetup for Union Members. Sometime further down the road, I'd like to help start one for something I tentatively would like to call Americans for a More Perfect Union, based upon the ideals put forth by Jesse Jackson Jr. in his book, A More Perfect Union.

The netroots and the blogosphere are not the only solution, of course. Over the past twenty-five years, through work with evangelical churches, talk radio and television shows like the 700 Club, conservatives have created what amounts to a powerful Conservative Political Opinion Complex. While many Democrats have become dittoheads to the seemingly bi-partisan, though definitely not liberal or progressive POC, many other Americans have become dittoheads to this right-wing counter-POC. With the coming of Gore's liberal TV network and a new liberal talk radio station, perhaps we can develop a counter-POC of our own. If these ventures are successful, expect the rightwing drift in the country to slow down significantly as the number of left-wing dittoheads begins to explode.

So, there you have it. This is what I have learned over the past two weeks, and why as a Dean supporter I don't really feel all that depressed today. I think his campaign utilized resources and counter-institutions that point the way to a far more hopeful future. I believe that the record turnout in Iowa and New Hampshire can be attributed to the netroots and the blogosphere (it certainly can't be attributed to current campaign coverage). I think we have made a lot of progress since the 2002-midterms, and that in the future we will make far more.

Finally, in case you are interested, this is also the beginning of my explanation for why I was wrong in my Empirical Cattle Call projections (but oh well, every academic model for projecting the primaries was wrong too). Momentum is back in a big way, and it's because Democrats have become dittoheads to the center-right POC.

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Permalink | 140 comments

  •  Particularly like (4.00 / 6)

    the POC construct; very useful.  

    But I'd offer an alternative angle of analyses that's perhaps more complex but ultimately more optimistic (or at least less misanthropic):-}

    Assuming that Democratic voters are "Dittoheads" misses the more the important (and critical point) about the decline of the discursive landscape of US politics.  Voters "follow" not because they are mindless, but because the entire state of political discourse and the understanding of the public sphere (and hence democracy itself) is so impoverished.  That's clear even in the promising break throughs like Dean's campaign and the internet.  The Dems will miss the boat if they accept your (and other similar analyses, big part of Joe's problem)that all they need to do is "control" (or get back into) the POC and "feed" their voters the right stuff to follow blindly like a dittohead.  

    The real strategy would be to help reinvigorate the entire public sphere and expand political discourse beyond the POC.  Dean's campaign is the beginning step in articulating that, but it doesn't quite get its mind around the whole problem.

    Just a simple </sarcasm> response.

    Your post gave me much to think about.

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 07:21:35 PM PDT

    •  I like it (4.00 / 3)

      Reinvigorating the Public spher sounds like an even better idea than the ones I proposed.

      But how? I wouldn't even know where to begin. I really wish there was some hope on that front.

      The Empirical Left is coming!

      by Chris Bowers on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 08:01:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Public Sphere (4.00 / 3)

        Some first steps are in place for this.  The Dems could go a long way in furthering this, but they remain so narrowly (and importantly) focussed on winning elections that they can't/won't take that up.

        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

        by a gilas girl on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 10:31:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I wish someone would pinch MO (none / 0)

          Since everyone didn't focus on Missouri because of Gep, it's going to be very hard to wake up MO!  
          The public sphere is deader here--only 200 showed up to Kerry's appearance today in St. Louis (a metro area of 1.5 million!).
          Wake us up! Freakin' narrow focus!  ;)
          •  South Side'n it (none / 1)

            I am from St. Louis - living in South Carolina now.  My understanding is that it is cold as a witch's titty today - with snow.  Why would anyone want to go out in that to see the same boring guy that they can see on CSPAN.  Kerry is about as compelling as Lurch - which is why I thought he sould be a crappy candidate.  I guess the Politerati have decided that Kerry is to be ordained - since everyone they say is "unelectable" is obviously unelectable.

            I sure wish our country was not so damn screwed up.    

            ...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance. -- Charles Darwin

            by ScottFanetti on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:33:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Public Sphere (none / 0)

        The great challange of people who understand what is going on will be to resurrect the Public, and connect it globally.

        The fate of humanity is integrated. Has been since we invented the bomb.

        If the net remains free and continues (or even accellerates) its rate of growth worldwide, we could see the development of a conversation that is global in scale and unregulated by national borders within our lifetime.

    •  Not all Democrats... (4.00 / 3)

      This is a most insightful and intriguing diary entry. I do have one quibble with it, however:

      Namely, that there's no basis for a blanket statement that all Democrats are dittoheads.

      In fact, more than 6 out 10 Democrats did not vote for Kerry in New Hampshire, despite the flood of positive press.

      A more supportable statement would be: Somewhere between 10-30% of Democratic voters are dittoheads, who go with whichever candidate is getting the most hype at a given moment.

      I would venture that with Republicans, the number is considerably higher. Just look at the polls showing what percentage of Republicans "support the President" regardless of what is going on in the world. It's usually around 90%...

      All that said -- once again, great post.

      "Animals are my friends. And I don't eat my friends." -- George Bernard Shaw

      by Hudson on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:30:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Gotta Agree Here (none / 0)

        Not everyone will follow your model but I don't actually think you are subscribing it to all Democrats.

        In my opinion, the best organizers and engineers of change in implimenting a new movement will come from the segment that doesn't subscribe to the rest of your model.

        Basically, those on the net and Democrats who avoid TV.

        "How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?" -John Kerry, 1971 but what we needed to hear in 2003/2004

        by Demise on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:46:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Another possible interpretation (none / 0)

      An interesting thesis, but I think another, equally valid, interpretation of the evidence is that Democrats are very, very concerned about beating Bush, and therefore are willing to support whichever candidate seems, at the moment, to have the best chance of defeating him.  They realize, perhaps, that the differences between the Democratic candidates are insignificant compared to the difference between them and Bush, and that even the least-desireable of the Dems would be a vast improvement over what we have, so their support for any particular candidate is soft, and we see these swings of support to whomever appears to be on top.

      That's not being a dittohead, I think, it's simply the outcome of a quite reasonable strategy when the desired goal is ABB.

    •  Ugh (2.00 / 4)

      This is the most inane hypothesis I've seen on this board in awhile.

      We have the Democratic primary getting  unprecedented and overwhelmingly positive media coverage. We have record turnouts in both the Iowa and N.H. events, with exit polls showing voters galvanized towards booting out Bush.

      We have a potential nominee in Kerry who can challenge Bush on national security just as Bush looks weakest on that subject. We have Republicans demoralized across the board as they realize GWB has clearly run out of steam and has nothing to run on now but memories.

      And you guys are calling the Democrats "dittoheads" because they're finally, FINALLY uniting on something.

      Idiotic. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I guess some people are just more comfortable being on the losing side.

      •  I disagree (none / 0)

        We have the Democratic primary getting  unprecedented and overwhelmingly positive media coverage.

        As the curvey I cited in the original posted demonstrated, its actually receiving far less media coverage than even very recent primary season.

        And you guys are calling the Democrats "dittoheads" because they're finally, FINALLY uniting on something.

        If you have evidence that Kerry's support is "harder" or more long term than that enjoyed by previous frontrunners, feel free to do so. However, I don't buy it.

        Idiotic. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I guess some people are just more comfortable being on the losing side..

        How can I argue with something that so perfectly explains my psychology?

        The Empirical Left is coming!

        by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 02:55:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  media consolidation (3.75 / 4)

    Just a quick add-on to your great post:

    I think this is one of the most compelling reasons we should fight for restrictions on media consolidation.  The media giants certainly have a financial stake in trying to consolidate, but the general public loses out big time when there are only 3 different organizations writing a news story and sharing them amongst themselves, as opposed to many independent voices.  However, the new FCC rules were just passed in the omnibus spending bill last week (right?).

    The Political Opinion Complex, as Chris puts it, becomes stronger as the number of different voices in the media diminishes.  

    God Bless America. Let's save some of it. - Abbey

    by usslider on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 07:26:46 PM PDT

    •  Media consolidation (none / 1)

      Does need to be sfought. It is extremely dangerous the way it has turned entirely into a ratings war.
      The Empirical Left is coming!

      by Chris Bowers on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 08:03:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Totally (none / 0)

        Unfortunately, the two canidates who had the balls to bring it up so far in this campaign (Dean and Clark) have basically been assasinated by "Moloch" at every turn.

        (wonders if anyone will get the Moloch reference)

        "How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?" -John Kerry, 1971 but what we needed to hear in 2003/2004

        by Demise on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:48:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Omnibus spending bill (none / 1)

      Increased the ownership limits from 35% to 39%, just enough to let Fox and Viacom keep their illegal stations. Fortunately, it didn't increase it all the way to the 45% the FCC Rethugs wanted, nor did it enact the other changes they wanted.

      Nevertheless, it's clear now that things have gone way too far since '96, when radio ownership limits were eliminated and the TV limits were increased from 25% to 35%.

      "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

      by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 01:55:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another explanation (none / 0)

    Could be that voters are responding rationally to events.
    •  Yes... (none / 0)

      We are all individuals!
      (spoken in unison)

      "Ask a glass of water"

      by Del in MO on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:42:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Reasoning Voter (3.75 / 4)

      Samuel Popkin's 1991 book on presidential elections, a very effective debunking of the notion that voters do what they are told to do.

      Yes, voters change preference in groups. But what do you expect? Voting in a democracy is a social behavior, and you can't win unless you convince most people, of course people make up their minds as a group. And yes, primaries are volatile. There are more than two candidates, more opportunities for strategic voting, and people make up their minds late.

      From 1936 to 1971 a NH win meant an 8.4% bump, on average. Since 1976 an IA win has meant an average 14% national poll bump. Kerry is on the high end, but not because of media consolidation, because his victory was a big surprise and Democrats are thinking particularly strategically this cycle.

      In the broader sense, sure, we have to fight media consolidation and take back our ability to frame the debate. But the idea that voters are dumb followers is a sure campaign killer, and probably hurt the Dean campaign's ability to persuade Iowa voters. If we want to beat George W. Bush we cannot fall prey to that idea.

    •  Thank you (none / 0)

      Could be that voters are responding rationally to events.

      A voice for reason. Praise be.

    •  They are responding rationally... (4.00 / 2)

      ...but only to the information they have. I agree that the term "dittoheads" is too strong, since it implies people are unwilling to think for themselves. But the problem is, most of those who aren't yet "wired" are still forced to make up their minds based on little more than propaganda coming from their TV screen.

      For example, there was no particular "event" that explained Dean's meltdown in Iowa, just a barrage of unflattering (and, IMO, heavily biased) information directed against him, both by his opponents and by the media. (His campaign does deserve part of the blame for failing to anticipate this and counter it intelligently.) And while "the scream" was arguably an "event" that weakened him further, it's impact was magnified beyond all rational proportion by the way it was presented by the media.

      I don't think Chris intended to imply that voters are stupid or irrational; only that their behavior appears irrational to those with more (and more accurate) information.

      "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

      by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 02:10:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A simpler explanation (4.00 / 6)

    For all the heavy breathing about "divided Democrats," there are simply no important issue divisions among Dems. That is why no one really cares much about, say, who has a better health plan - any of them would be immeasurably better than what we've got. Even on Iraq, the argument has been all about the past, not what to do now.

    Dems are pretty much united, not only on issues but most of all on putting an end to the unhappy reign of George W. Bush. Thus, that ole debbil electability has emerged as the one real question in the primary race. I must say, it is amusing to see Dean supporters use the same "atmospherics" arguments against Kerry - e.g., New England Liberal - that they rejected so forcefully when used against Dean. (Oh, and where are the multitudes touting Kerry's advantage from having opted out of the caps?)

    Electability being an inherently subjective judgment, it is the least of surprises that the Dem electorate has been flighty. Dean led through most of last year because he offered the most distinctive premise for electability, what I've taken to calling Concept Dean. Put to the test, it flubbed - and that huge sucking sound is Dems bailing on Dean in search of an alternative option.

    Last year, John Kerry seemed like an extinct volcano. Then he erupted all over Iowa and NH. Why shouldn't Dems take note of the lava flow? I am still holding out for Clark as a stronger candidate against Bush, and we'll see if he (or Edwards) can perform better in the test than Dean did. If he does, great. If he doesn't, I'm okay with that, too.

    -- Rick Robinson

    The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

    by al Fubar on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 07:49:11 PM PDT

    •  But don't the wild swings (none / 0)

      make it seem that people had very, very soft support for who they believed was the most electable? and I'm not even really sure how Dean being endorsed by Gore or Kerry winning the first two states make either one of them more electable.

      It just seems that the "support" professed by many people was extremely soft. For Lieberman, for Dean, for Gephardt, for Clark, for Kerry... all of them had major ups and downs in this campaign directly connected to big stories.

      I really believe that the swings have to be a sign of soft support all around. Maybe you are right in that most people do not think there are "hard" reasons to support any of the candidates. Even if this is true, however, that would imply a real disengagement from the process, which is similar to what I am talking about.

      The Empirical Left is coming!

      by Chris Bowers on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 08:10:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe they all looked good (none / 0)

        I started out expecting to back Kerry, but he seemed then to be going nowhere, for reasons I couldn't figure. When I really tuned into the primary race, I was leaning Dean, because he was the one generating voltage by taking it to Bush. Then Clark came in, really excited me, and I became an active Clarkista. But it was still mainly a matter of who was showing voltage out there, and I'm a junkie anyway.

        I did become disenchanted with Dean, even as 2nd choice, as he started looking more and more like a November flameout.

        Now Kerry is suddenly showing full of fight - you've got to say something for a guy who has his crowds shouting "Bring it on!" That's no reason for me to ditch on Clark, who I still think would run even stronger in the fall - but if it ends up as Kerry, no harm no foul.

        -- Rick Robinson

        The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

        by al Fubar on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 08:29:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Dare I say "Ditto?" (none / 1)

          Rick, your journey is exactly like mine, and I have met many others. If need be, we will circle back to Kerry, which is where we had expected to be in the first place! But I do like Clark, and will continue to fight on for a while.
      •  More thoughts on this ... (4.00 / 3)

        Since Kos promoted this question to the front page, instead of slipping into whatever limbo diaries vanish into after 15 minutes.

        Perhaps the whole Internet thing, plus the compressed calendar, magnified early mood swings. I never paid much attention to the primary races before - it was usually settled before it got to CA anyway. The out-year was hardly on the radar.

        For most people it was probably still that way. They heard vaguely about this Dean guy, or that Clark guy, who seemed to be generating notice out there, so vaguely drifted toward that person. Then - Bang! - the holidays are barely over when suddenly the primary season is on, to be effectively settled in seven weeks and a day, from Iowa to Southern Tuesday, and quite possibly two weeks and a day, from Iowa till Feb 3.

        The blogosphere also had a narrow-casting effect. Dean had maybe 600,000 active supporters; Clark perhaps 200,000; maybe 100,000 for the rest - less than a million all told, or maybe 3 percent of Dem primary voters. (And even those numbers surely inflated, people who signed in at Meetup but never showed, or drifted away, etc.) You could raise a boatload of money without really having breadth of support.

        Wham, bam, here's your nominee, ma'am!

        Another factor: the huge field. Apart from the three boutique/issue candidates, at one point we had seven serious contenders, didn't we? (I forget now, was Graham out before Clark got in?) Who could keep them all straight? Plus, once Dean became the early "surprise" guy, with the Q2 fundraising and Deanite movement, all the others became a blur of people trying to become the anti-Dean.

        Where your Empirical Cattle Call concept went astray was overestimating the significance of everything in the out-year, when as it turns out not many people were paying attention.

        On top of that, the compressed schedule turns out to mean that mo beats materiality. Dean seemed to have it more than half wrapped up on the materiality front - but Bang! - Kerry wins Iowa. He gets a huge mo wave, maybe transient, but lasting long enough to reach NH, and giving Dean no time to right the boat, Clark no time to reposition against Kerry, and so on.

        -- Rick Robinson

        The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

        by al Fubar on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:43:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: More thoughts on this ... (none / 1)

          "Where your Empirical Cattle Call concept went astray was overestimating the significance of everything in the out-year, when as it turns out not many people were paying attention."

          Actually, the out-year is critical.  Chris was just measuring the wrong things in the out-year.

          Since '76, every nomination of both parties has been won by the candidate with the most establishment Party support in the out-year.

          In retrospect, the Kerry comeback should have been pretty damn obvious, and I have a healthy dose of self-criticism for missing it.

          Many, many months ago, The Note had fun covering the 'Shrum Primary', which was the competition between Edwards and Kerry for the services of Bob Shrum.  Kerry won, and the identity of the likely nominee should have been obvious that day.

          •  Carville warned us (none / 1)

            Remember, a couple of weeks ago, when he said something about how Kerry would emerge as the challenger to Dean? Everyone here on DKos dissed him, including me. What was he smoking? Or had Mary M gotten to him? Or was he just living in 1992?

            Well, guess what, everyone! James Carville knows more about politics than anyone on DKos! Me included. Than you, too.

            What is still a deep mystery is what Kerry actually did in Iowa. He campaigns against Dean for six months and does nothing but slide. He goes to Iowa on what looks like a desperation throw - literally betting the mortgage - and seems going nowhere till suddenly, a week out, he's moving up.

            Bizarre!

            -- Rick Robinson

            The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

            by al Fubar on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 02:38:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Truly bizarre (none / 0)

              And remarkable.

              I have no idea what happened.

              The Empirical Left is coming!

              by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 02:58:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You've got to admit ... (none / 0)

                It makes an argument for Kerry. People around here can say Lurch all they want, but if I were Karl Rove I'd be nervous about a guy who gets up out of his coffin and starts running like that.

                -- Rick Robinson

                The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

                by al Fubar on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:06:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It was also (none / 0)

                  The nightmere scenario for Dean. A Gephardt or Edwards victory would probably still have resulted in a campaign-saving win for Dean in NH. However, being beaten by Kerry in Iowa seems to have broken the NH pillar as well.
                  The Empirical Left is coming!

                  by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:10:53 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  For Clark as well (none / 0)

                    Clark was moving into striking distance in NH when Kerry's "pre-Iowa" bounce started to drag him down. Kerry cut right into his core argument, in a way that neither Gep nor Edwards would have.

                    -- Rick Robinson

                    The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

                    by al Fubar on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 10:57:53 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Kerry has won (none / 0)

                      With Kerry winning this I don't see any chance for Clark anymore or Edwards. Dean?? I doubt it. I hope it's over quick now to be honest. Kerry should pick a southerner or a westener like Bill Richardson to balance the ticket as best he can. I fear for us with a classic Boston Limo Liberal as our nominee but the people think differently so that's that.
                      •  I'll wait for Tuesday ... (none / 0)

                        As of last weekend, when Clark was bottoming out in NH, he was holding his lead on Edwards in OK (Kerry well back). Since Edwards got no mo out of NH, Clark remains favored in OK.

                        In AZ, Clark was either tied or competitive with Kerry, with Dean still holding fairly well. Now, Kerry may well be pulling away in AZ, and apparently will get Janet Napolitano's endorsement. If that happens, Clark is likely finished; OK allows him to leave the field with honor, having taken a primary, but isn't really enough to go forward on.

                        On the other hand, we don't know that Kerry is pulling away in AZ, and endorsements sure didn't do jack for Dean. Moreover, Dean is probably fading in AZ after the NH washout and now Trippi turmoil - and his support might break more for fellow outsider Clark.

                        Where are the damn tracking polls?

                        Anyway, my point is that sure, Clark is in serious trouble, but might still pull it out in AZ (and if so, likely as not NM as well). Winning 2-3 states makes him good to go. A severe underdog, sure, but Kerry is really just floating on a bounce. His staying power hasn't been tested, and buyers' remorse could set in.  

                        We will know more tonight, polls or no polls - Clark needs a good debate.

                        -- Rick Robinson

                        The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

                        by al Fubar on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:55:51 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  It's OVER (none / 0)

                          Rick we both know in our hearts it's over at this pt. The speed involved with 1 primary coming on top of another and the amount of states makes it very hard for anyone to get any traction on the leader. It's possible where you have just 2 contenders I guess? But, in this case it's not going to happen. Kerry is in all probability going to be our nominee and as I said, I hope this ends fast now for all our sakes. We need to get behind a candidate and start hammering away at the real enemy BUSH !!
                          •  Probably, but not quite (none / 0)

                            I really don't think it is over yet - close, sure, but not over. AZ plus NM (and OK) gives Clark three states, and maybe four if he gets ND. Tough, but doable for Clark, at least as of late last week. We'll see whether tracking numbers, when they come out, show Clark fading in AZ or holding on.

                            In that context, I'll root for Edwards in SC, since that leaves Kerry with nothing but MO - a big prize, to be sure - and DE. That slows Kerry down, even if the short-term beneficiary is Edwards.

                            Having said that, the most likely outcome is that Kerry locks it up next Tuesday. I can live with that, since Kerry is looking more and more like he can take it to Bush in the fall.

                            -- Rick Robinson

                            The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

                            by al Fubar on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 02:29:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  Next fall (none / 0)

                              I agree , Rick. Kerry would have never been my 1st or even 2nd choice but, if he wins he'll have to do. He has shown 1 quality that's going to be vital if he's going to win next fall and that's the ability to take a punch and get back up fighting. Another really big positive is the fact that he isn't bound by the limits on funding. His biggest decison is going to ba VP choice and I just pray he really thinks it through. He needs some kind of southern or western prescence on the ticket to balance his disadvantage as a NE LIBERAL. Still, I sense Bush is growing more vunerable by the day. Bush's lies and his openly corrupt way of doing business will come back to haunt him. He's been running the country like it's ENRON. ABB is going to be Kerry's salvation IMHO.
              •  Re: Truly bizarre (none / 0)

                "I have no idea what happened."

                The truth is out there.  And it's not that obscure.

                Dean ran a campaign that, by relentlessly attacking the Party, energized Party regulars to work against him, and he then proceeded to run an absolutely awful campaign over the final month.  The final 10 days was almost comically bad.

                The huge surge for Kerry and Edwards was a very specific repudiation of Dean.

                •  Yeah, but (none / 1)

                  Dean was always doing that, and there weren't any problems until the final two weeks. I'm just surprised it changed so much right at the end.

                  The "run out the clock" strategy was truly a disaster. I remember reading about that on politcal wire in mid-December and thinking "oh, God--this is how he's gonna blow it."

                  The Empirical Left is coming!

                  by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:25:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  What Happened in Iowa... (4.00 / 3)

                  Think South Carolina II. (What Bush did to McCain in SC in '00).

                  It was 6 against 1 with every campaign needing to stop Dean, or it was over.

                  Kerry gained the support of the Governor's and AG's Iowa political networks. He was set and ready for action when Gephardt began running the inevitable negative ads.

                  What happened next was a real shit-storm of push-polling and rumor mongering, all below the radar. Where was the nastiness that Iowans complained of? It sure wasn't the relatively benign TV ads.

                  Instead it was the ugliness spread through Iowa's close-knit, (and gossipy), communities. The target was Dr. Dean's wife-- Dr. Dean and Mrs. Hide. There was also a good bit of anti-semitism, and Dr. Dean was rumored to be an abortionist.

                  Of course Gephardt took the blame since he was on record as campaigning negatively. Edwards was there to scoop up all the people turned off by the Kerry-Gephardt-Dean bickering.

                  But trust me, it was Ugly. In Iowa they knew the candidates, and you don't get polls turned upside down like that without a great deal of nastiness.

                  CT-4 and CT-2! Two New England House races that Dems must win. www.farrellforcongress.com & www.sullivanforcongress.com

                  by edwardbanderson on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 01:36:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  It's exactly what you said, Chris (none / 0)

                The POC got behind Kerry (for whatever reason) and voters echoed their sentiment. POC defined 'electability' and singled out Kerry as fitting the bill. Voters, wanting to have a nominee with greater chance of being elected, turned to Kerry as a result, without really knowing much about the candidates at all.

                I think your post was brilliant. A very important contribution- thanks.

                •  Knowing the canidate (none / 0)

                  I echo your thoughts on this. Most of the "regular" (i.e. non-political junkies) people I know don't know squat about any of the canidates.

                  They know the jokes, how they look and where they are from but outside that..... vacuum.

                  "How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?" -John Kerry, 1971 but what we needed to hear in 2003/2004

                  by Demise on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:54:14 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Carville Warned Us (none / 1)

              I'm still waiting on the freaks to come out of the woodwork claiming that the Diebold machines were rigged in Kerry's favor...
        •  Mo vs. Materiality (none / 0)

          Mo certainly does seem stronger this time. Being such a materialist, I find it depressing that Gep's unions and Dean's various volunteer and fundraising advantages seem inadequite. I suppose its time for me to try and learn a lot more what Mo actually is. I think a lot of your other reasons for the ECC's failure are accurate as well.

          I'm gonna keep tinkering. No matter happens, there will be a primary season in 2008, so in just four short years I can give the ECC another go!

          :-)

          The Empirical Left is coming!

          by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 01:58:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  My question... (none / 0)

        If support for the candidates is soft, and 10 - 30 percent of the party's voters "swing in the breeze", then what is motivating them to show up and vote?

        I mean, this is where I got into trouble predicting New Hampshire. Clearly, a very large number of New Hampshire voters turned on a dime, going from Dean to Kerry (who in many ways is the antithesis of Dean).

        Yet, despite apparently having no real commitment to anything or anybody, these people still showed up and voted, apparently at no discount.

        I just don't get it.

        ~Jimbo

        "Ownership Society"--Whereby Bush, et. al. own the rest of society.

        by JimTXDem on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:04:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: My question... (none / 0)

          If support for the candidates is soft, and 10 - 30 percent of the party's voters "swing in the breeze", then what is motivating them to show up and vote?

          ...

          I just don't get it.

          late deciders tend to vote on personality, not issues.

        •  My answer (none / 0)

          If support for the candidates is soft, and 10 - 30 percent of the party's voters "swing in the breeze", then what is motivating them to show up and vote?

          How about a sense of civic responsibility? Democracy obligates you to make choices, even when the choice is not clear.

        •  That's easy! (none / 0)

          Bush.

          Dems want to kick his ass out of the WH like nothing they've wanted for many years. They're very fluid as to how (i.e., who is most electable), but the determination is there.

          -- Rick Robinson

          The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

          by al Fubar on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 11:03:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I dunno... (4.00 / 6)

      I actually think there are bigger policy differences than anyone realizes here.  The media hasn't really been covering them, but they're there.

      For instance, a candidate that waffles on affirmative action (Kerry, Lieberman) or one that stands firm on it (Dean, Clark, Edwards)?  Is it possible to balance the budget while still leaving taxes low and introducing new spending(Kerry & Edwards) or do we have to repeal the tax cuts and hold off on spending until we save it (Dean)?  Do we want a healthcare plan that relies on helping employers provide healthcare (Dean), or a plan paid for entirely by the government (Kerry, Edwards?

      All of these are POLICY ISSUES.  They effect people's lives.  President Dean would govern differently than President Kerry or President Edwards.  They all have different goals, different priorities, and different ways of achieving their end results.  We need to focus on those as much as bullshit "electability" concerns.

      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

      by ChicagoDem on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 08:38:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and that's (none / 0)

        They affect people's lives, of course.  

        Damn, I fell for my own pet peeve...

        Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

        by ChicagoDem on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 08:41:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  But... (none / 0)

        no Democratic candidate will do anything but fully support affirmative action.  I'd dispute your description of the tax situation, but it doesn't matter - these guys are going to have to deal with a Republican Congress, and I can't imagine the tax plan offered will end up differing by all that much.  And again, any health care plan is DOA.  
      •  Sounds so practical doesn't it? (none / 0)

        Is the media too lazy to bother?

        It seem to me that lots of people are to lazy to bother. Maybe all the time people are spending working; taking are of children and playing politics in their family/work environment that they just don't have the time to research on their own.

        If the people are too lazy and even grassroots organizing and educational efforts come up short then what the fuck is left?

        "How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?" -John Kerry, 1971 but what we needed to hear in 2003/2004

        by Demise on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:59:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ack (none / 0)

        You're reminding me of just how pathetic the debates were this year.

        The only discussion I kept seeing was over "electability" (dumb).

        Since when did "electability" put food on your table or money in your wallet?!?

        AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

        ~Jimbo

        "Ownership Society"--Whereby Bush, et. al. own the rest of society.

        by JimTXDem on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:07:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  bubbles (3.66 / 6)

    An alternative thesis is that the overwhelming strength of the ABB sentiment explains the fluctuation. Everyone is trying to find the candidate that can beat Bush, but no one knows who it is; some factor (like money raised, or a draft campaign, or a caucus win) draws attention to one candidate and he rises in the polls; this leads everyone to focus on them as the electable one, which pushes them up still further in the polls until the artificial bubble is burst by something and a new bubble gets blown. The Kerry bubble should burst in the next week or two.
    •  al fubar is correct (none / 0)

      i see al fubar beat me to the punch.
    •  I agree in part (none / 0)

      I think Al Fubar and you are right that the desire to replace Bush strengthens the bandwagon effect. But you seem to be writing off the effect of the media on the race entirely, and I don't understand why.

      In IA there was nothing specific that burst Dean's bubble – the "scream" happened after he lost there. Similarly in NH no specific "event" burst Clark's bubble except for the obvious fact that Kerry won IA instead of Dean and we had a new bubble blowing.

      Your bubble analogy is good, but it still seems like the media are the ones popping the bubbles.

      "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

      by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 02:46:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes, but... (none / 0)

        Right, the mass media is the channel through which the mass voter gets information, and the mass media will seek to bring down any frontrunner (but especially one - like Dean - who attacks the establishment, i.e. them), but how determinative is that effort?

        The Dean bubble expanded when the media communicated his fund-raising success, a key signal of electability. The soft support flocking to Dean assumed he would behave in an electable manner - move to the center, avoid off-the-cuff gaffes, tone down the insurgency rhetoric, etc. - and Dean's centrist record in Vermont gave those expectations credibility. When Dean failed to do so - criticizing Clinton, making fun of the DLC, etc. - the media gleefully and maliciously amplified the disastrous signals, but it didn't invent them.

        The event that burst the bubble, as Mathwiz notes, was the coincedence of the media amplification of these Dean signals and an actual vote in Iowa. The scream just provided a nice symbolic coda.

        •  But who defines "electable?" (none / 1)

          I agree the media's influence isn't the only factor. As someone said elsewhere in this thread, the media couldn't get us all to vote for Sharpton, even assuming they wanted to. And you're also right in that the media is rarely flat-out dishonest (excepting, obviously, rightwing outfits like Fox).

          But you're begging the question when you say "The soft support ... assumed [Dean] would behave in an electable manner - move to the center, avoid off-the-cuff gaffes, tone down the insurgency rhetoric, etc." Who, in America today, defines the "center," what constitutes a "gaffe," etc.? The media, of course!

          Sure, the media didn't invent things about Dean, Clark, or any of the other candidates they dislike (Kucinich comes to mind). But they did choose what to emphasize about them and also how to spin it.

          Dean's "scream" was an egregious example: it struck me, at first sight, as a coach pumping up his players after a tough loss; but it was endlessly and repeatedly spun as a "borderline psychotic" who acted as if he were "on speed." Now come on – don't you find drug-addict innuendo at least a bit over the top?

          (Full disclosure: I'm not sold on Dean for a number of reasons, but I do like him better than Kerry. And I'm a pretty good BS detector.)

          Another example is your implication that Dean is a leftist who has failed to "move to the center." He already takes a "states' rights" view on gay marriage, which would seem to occupy the "center" position between the rightwing "ban it nationwide" and the leftist "allow it nationwide;" did you not know that?

          Similarly, he takes a centrist position on healthcare between Bush's "let everyone compete in the 'free' market; the poor can just die off" and the Canadian-style national health insurance lefties like me would prefer. But I bet you didn't know that either.

          Even on the war, which Dean vocally opposed, his current position is that we need to set up a democratic government in Iraq before we pull out - the same position Bush takes (except I think Dean really means it).

          In fact, it's hard to find a position where Dean is substantially left of center.  He's pro-gun, pro-NAFTA, and pro-death penalty; so where is this commie pinko people claim to see when they look at him?

          Right: it's a media-enhanced hallucination.

          "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

          by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 05:23:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  GREAT POST (none / 0)

    Lots of meat to chew on here. I can't even respond yet. Thanks!
  •  Two things. (4.00 / 3)

    I read all of your 1500 words. That speaks to the quality of analysis and writing. I agree also with a gilas girl's slight POV modification (slight from my perspective).

    What I take away from your article is that there is potential to out-flank (at some point, not now) the existing one-way broad-cast media and that that way involves an important use of the web. I concur that engaging and winning battles in a media war will not be enough. Thare are other arenas that must be contested (unions, churches etc.) as well.

    Al Girodano is another media warrior. Over at Blogging of the President:2004 he ended his post with a call for ideas. If I may be so forward as to quote myself (I like the purple background) I want to second in my humble way a portion of what you've said so well.

    Al Giordano asked:

    "And, if it is time to defeat it [one-way, broad-cast media], and we have this relatively new tool of the Internet, how - concrete suggestions and actions, please - will we defeat it?"

    One of the transformative potentials of web-based mediation that is just now being born is decision. Decision is moment-by-moment voting and polling. Voting/polling which is now an expensive (in time as well as money) high-demand short-supply commodity, will become transformed by the web into a high supply inexpensive decision tool.

    Not only will the quantity of voting/polling technology become available cheaply, but even more significantly will the quality of voting/polling technology grow exponentially. Crude plurality technologies will give way to sophisticated technologies like the Condorcet Method.

    The growth in voting/polling technologies will spur concommitant growth in democratic and representationally organized structures. IMHO, the growth of these democratic structures will play an important role in creating the environments hostile to the survival of the un-democratic "infrastructures of belief"* now so successfully manipulated by the "right-wing", at least partially through one-way broad-cast media.

    *("Infrastructures of belief" is a concept being developed by "DailyKos" writer "a gilas girl".)

  •  Groupthink, the herd mentality (4.00 / 5)

    This is a phenomenon I've been following for a while now. I'm convinced that "the powers that be" are more than familiar with the effects of Social Compliance and are exploiting this through their media consolidation and coordination of message.

    Even though S/he knew what the correct answer was, presumably there was a social pressure to conform to what the group perceived as correct. Overall, 35% of the subject's responses conformed to the group's incorrect judgements. While this is not a majority, it is certainly a substantial minority. Either group pressure convinced the subjects that their own judgement was incorrect, or the subject was too afraid to voice their minority opinion against an overwelming majoirty. This would tend to indicate that being accepted is more important than being correct.

    Never underestimate the power of GroupThink, formed primarily by our esteemed [not] TV networks. This is why there used to be something called a Fairness Doctrine and why it's been devastating to Democrats since it's been scuttled. It's not just Democrats that are subject to this effect. Unfortunately the only way to fight this effectively is to have ideologically competing news outlets (ala Great Britain). Sadly, I don't see this happening to our media outlets anytime soon.

    Soros, where are you!?!?

    The polls don't tell us how a candidate is doing; they tell us how the media is doing.

    by Thumb on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 11:43:10 PM PDT

    •  Obligatory Orwell Comparison... (none / 0)

      I always toyed with the thought that individuals in '1984' just believed that the monitors could "watch" them because they were so well conditioned.

      Orwell's 'Big Brother' construct had perfected conditioning through the idiot box so well that images, propaganda and commands would instill fear and loyalty without the construct even having lift a finger.

      Just a "obligatory Orwell comparison" :). Read the book if ya haven't.

      "How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?" -John Kerry, 1971 but what we needed to hear in 2003/2004

      by Demise on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:15:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Public opinion and isolation (3.66 / 3)

      You might be interested in the Spiral of Silence:

      Noelle-Neumann claims that people's assessment of the political climate, and especially their forecast of future trends, are early, reliable indicators of what will happen in an election.... The term spiral of silence refers to the increasing pressure people feel to conceal their views when they think they are in the minority. Noelle-Neumann believes that television accelerates the spiral, but to grasp the role of the mass media in the process we first must understand people's extraordinary sensitivity to the ever-changing standard of what society will tolerate.
    •  Ideological competition... (none / 0)

      U.S. newspapers used to compete ideologically, and in fact you still find many newspapers with "Democrat" in their name. But the rise of "objective news," combined with consolidation in the newspaper industry, ended that trend.

      Personally, I'd like to see the fairness doctrine reinstated for broadcast television. The genie is already out of the bottle for radio; reimposing the fairness docrine there would mean the end of ideological talk radio and I can't see any President calling for that. For radio, a better solution would be to start licensing low-power stations, as former FCC Chair William Kennard wanted to do before he was shot down by Congress.

      That would give you TV as a less ideological news source, plus ideological competition in radio; the best of both worlds, IMO.

      "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

      by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:33:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Bulls--t Gets Deeper (2.50 / 8)

    "Democrats have become dittoheads to the center-right POC."

    So were Democrats dittoheads when the Political Opinion Complex was pushing Howard Dean to vertiginous heights November and December?

    "Sadly, this state of affairs has turned the Democratic electorate into dittoheads. We will vote however the POC tells us to vote."

    So, that's what was going on when Howard Dean ended up on the covers of Time and Newsweek twice and jumped to the front of the polls?

    "Finally, in case you are interested, this is also the beginning of my explanation for why I was wrong in my Empirical Cattle Call projections"

    No.  The problem is that you don't have much of a clue about how politics works, and how it's always worked.  Momentum has existed since the beginning of the primary era, and to some degree, since the beginning of politics.

    I will agree with you that your methodology truly is academic.

    •  Ummm (4.00 / 4)

      "So were Democrats dittoheads when the Political Opinion Complex was pushing Howard Dean to vertiginous heights November and December?"

      Yes. I made that point several times in the post.

      "So, that's what was going on when Howard Dean ended up on the covers of Time and Newsweek twice and jumped to the front of the polls?"

      Yes. I made that implication several times in this post.

      "Momentum has existed since the beginning of the primary era, and to some degree, since the beginning of politics."

      I made a mea culpa about momentum, and admitted I was wrong.

      "The problem is that you don't have much of a clue about how politics works."

      This petey, actually is demonstrative of your problem. After once again misreading my post and failing to recognize that all the points you made against it were actually points I made in the post, you throw out a needlessly abrasive put-down.

      Maybe if you weren't so bent on arguing that I was an idiot, you would realize that I was making the same points you were.

      The Empirical Left is coming!

      by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:12:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Ummm (1.66 / 3)

        "I draw the following, depressing conclusion: Democrats are Dittoheads who will do whatever the Political Opinion Complex tells them to do."

        Chris,

        I object to this kind of comment, and think you are making it because your candidate is losing.  

        I don't think you would be slandering all Democrats if they were voting for your candidate.  But instead, your candidate is losing, so therefore the voters of my Party are either duped or stupid.

        Instead of blaming Democrats, I'd aim my fire at the failings of your candidate and his thankfully departed campaign manager.

        •  My motives vs. My points (none / 0)

          "I object to this kind of comment, and think you are making it because your candidate is losing.  

          I don't think you would be slandering all Democrats if they were voting for your candidate.  But instead, your candidate is losing, so therefore the voters of my Party are either duped or stupid."

          You don't know me petey. You don't know what my motives are. I have a 1500 word article. Debate what I wrote, not something that you assume is going on inside my head.

          Its always easy to dismiss something someone wrote because you assume they have a hidden agenda. I would rather that when people call my writing bullshit, that they critique the writing, not me. The author is not the text.

          Although I am a recent convert, I'm a Democrat too. I'm not going anywhere just because Dean is in peril. I apologize if you felt offended by my use of the term dittohead.

          The Empirical Left is coming!

          by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:58:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re: My motives vs. My points (none / 0)

            "Its always easy to dismiss something someone wrote because you assume they have a hidden agenda. I would rather that when people call my writing bullshit, that they critique the writing, not me."

            your writing, as always, is just fine.  however, i think some of the assumptions behind you writing are half-baked, and i try to point those out.

            as always, i comment because you writing is usually thought provoking, even when it's wrong.

        •  Petey.. (none / 0)

          It's always back to Dean with you?

          I don't deny that Chris is probably a lil upset for his canidate but the premise of this post is that the media as it stands today has far to much control/sway over public opinion.

          Instead of looking to bash Chris or Dean, why not contribute to this idea or argue against it?

          "How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?" -John Kerry, 1971 but what we needed to hear in 2003/2004

          by Demise on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:21:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He did (none / 1)

            Petey pointed out how stupid it is to say that  now that the Deanies are losing all the rest of us are "dittoheads." The rest of the original inane hypothesis was just a bunch of gobbledygook, wrapped around the basic sour grapes message.

            Other Democrats been equated with Rush Limbaugh's supporters simply because we put the defeat of GWB ahead of an infatuation with Dean. That's absurd, and frankly this whole subject hardly merits discussion at all.

            The Deanies have been horribly vindictive since N.H. and it's time for you all to get over it and get with the program, which is: Get Bush out of the White House.

            •  Incisive (none / 0)

              Petey pointed out how stupid it is to say that  now that the Deanies are losing all the rest of us are "dittoheads."

              No. Petey claimed that I was failing to accept that most of Dean's orginal cupport was also based on positive media coverage. I was in fact arguing that all along, and pointed that out to him.

              The rest of the original inane hypothesis was just a bunch of gobbledygook, wrapped around the basic sour grapes message.

              Just like Petey, you dismiss my entire argument because I am a Dean supporter. This is always a convenient way of not actually critiquing what I wrote. You don't know me, yet you presume my argument is worthless because of who I am. You assume I'm just pissed that Dean lost, and this affects everything I write. Instead of engaging with what I wrote, you assume critique is unneccessary because of who I am.

              Other Democrats been equated with Rush Limbaugh's supporters simply because we put the defeat of GWB ahead of an infatuation with Dean. That's absurd, and frankly this whole subject hardly merits discussion at all.

              The Deanies have been horribly vindictive since N.H. and it's time for you all to get over it and get with the program, which is: Get Bush out of the White House.

              I'm sorry that you seem to have been traumatized by past encounters with Dean supporters. Stereotyping that anything that is written or said by any Dean supporter as coming from this exact same perspective is not helpful, however.

              There is a lot of good, informative critique of my thesis taking place on this thread. If you want to argue that Kerry's newfound supporters are harder than Clark's or Dean's were, go right ahead. I'm always open to new arguments.

              The Empirical Left is coming!

              by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 02:48:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Humans Are Dittoheads (3.50 / 4)

  •  Kerry's Post-IA Surge (3.66 / 3)

    might also be explained by the fact that he campaigned extremely effectively in IA -- bringing in the old Vietnam shipmates, including the guy whose life he saved.  

    This event got positive coverage even from FOX.  It went a long way to demolish the "aloof, patrician, Yankee" image the Repubs (and Kerry's Dem opponents) had created around him.

    Scoring a few goals in a celebrity hockey game in NH didn't hurt either.  

    Kerry may come across like Lurch in a formal setting like the Senate floor, but he's shown he can also relax.  And the voters are looking for someone who can.  Lord knows Dean can't.  

    •  Almost (none / 0)

      I'd have given you a 4 if you hadn't added an egregious putdown at the end of your post. "Lord knows Dean can't [relax]." You don't know that, and it seems highly unlikely.

      But other than that, you're right. Kerry did campaign effectively in IA, while Dean and Gep spent far too much time destroying each other. An important lesson of Iowa is: negative campaigning is especially risky when there are more than two viable candidates!

      But just because you dislike Dean doesn't mean the media wasn't a factor in his downfall. In fact, I'd venture that the media has helped create your negative opinion of him!

      "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

      by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 03:50:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Opinions follow media -- well known effect (4.00 / 7)

    This is not exactly new stuff.  Political scientists and media analysts have been pointing it out for more than 20 years.  Media coverage drives opinion changes.

    Ask people what they think the most important problem in the country is?  It tracks relatively well the focus of national news outlets for the last week or two.

    Ask people about a policy issue, let's say the death penalty.  Ask a week after a horrific serial killer is caught, support for the death penalty will be up 20%.  Ask a week after a man on death row is found to be innocent, and support will be down 20%.  

    There is a whole cottage industry in political science of showing how presidential approval ratings track positive/negative news stories very very well.  My own research belongs in that cottage, in fact.  Tell me what stories will be on FOX and CNN next week, and I can probably tell you what will happen to Bush's poll numbers.

    If the big TV networks (these days, includes cable news as well as the traditional 3) run film of Howard Dean helping an old lady across the street, his support goes up a few points.  They run film of him spiling hot coffee on himself and swearing, his support goes down.  The last couple of things seen on TV, even if they don't deliver any new information, have a huge, huge impact on how most people answer survey questions.  Yes it's trivial, but yes it's true.

    I'm being a bit too cynical, perhaps.  Media coverage is a big driver of opinion, probably the strongest, but not the only one.  But, I think it has an especially strong effect this year.  Voters who are with a candidate because they agree with the message, or strongly identify with that candidate as a person, or whatever, will be less swayed by the spin of the day.  But when a lot of the voters care about "electability", then they're going to be strongly swayed be stories about strengths and weaknesses, accomplishments and gaffes, since that information speaks directly to their decision criteria.

    If you want to learn more, here are some good books to start with:

    John Zaller:  The Nature and Origin of Mass Opinion (Cambridge, 1992)
    Shanto Iyengar and Don Kinder:  News That Matters (Chicago, 1987)
    Doris Graber:  Mass Media and American Politics (Congressional Quarterly, many eds)
    Richard Brody, Assessing the President (Stanford, 1991)
    Reeves and Iyengar, eds.:  Do The Media Govern?  (Sage, 1997)
    Benjamin Page and Robert Shapiro:  The Rational Public (Chicago, 1992)  
    This last one does argue (and so does Zaller) that over the long-term opinion is more stable, and changes more "rationally", but they'd agree that you see huge short-term swings driven by media content.

    •  Thanks! (none / 0)

      I check some of those out when I have the time. I always figured there was a relationship, but I didn't realize how strong it was until I started taking down data and comparing it.
      The Empirical Left is coming!

      by Chris Bowers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:17:33 AM PDT

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    •  Don't Forget... (none / 0)

      ...Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent.

      Poor me, I dig myself holes! Somebody marry me, I'm getting old! -- Sole

      by MediaRevolution on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 01:24:31 AM PDT

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    •  re:qualifying what I said (4.00 / 5)

      Just to clarify and to be sure people don't read too much into my remarks, I'm NOT saying that the media can outright brainwash people.

      If FOX and MSNBC started running stories 24/7 that said Al Sharpton would be the best president because he has the best hairstyle, all they'd do is to turn off their viewers.

      Media coverage doesn't do much to change the underlying values of the audience, not at anything less than a very long term, background way.  For example, media coverage is not likely to convince people that their priority is to "reform the system" vs "choose the most electable candidate".

      Media coverage does of course transmit information to people -- you could imagine a not-well connected set of factoids being transmitted and attached to particular issues or candidates in the minds of viewers.  

      For example:  "Clark is a war hero".  "Clark is a nutcase".  "Dean balances budgets".  "Dean is angry".  Not every message is automatically accepted; people aren't completely controllable.  If FOX aired a few stories suggesting that Joe Lieberman has a secret career as a gay porn star, not many people would accept that.

      Media coverage is spectularly good at "framing" the way people look at an issue at a given moment.  Most people aren't very good at integrating all the pros and cons of particular issues.  When you ask, "what do you think about X", they tend to give a reply based on just the first few aspects that come to mind -- and those tend to be the ones the media have recently discussed (or ones that have come up in their personal life, but most people don't talk much politics; the news is it).  

      Most people thus don't really have a simple  "opinion" on something like health care reform.  They have things they care about related to health care, but whether they favor or oppose a particular plan will depend on what is in their mind the day you ask -- meaning it depends on what was on TV that week.  Cost savings or choice of doctor?  Ask again a week later, different answer.  

      Put the person in a room with some friends, give them some information, a knowledgable but neutral moderator maybe, and let them talk it all out for a few hours and they may well arrive at a thought-out opinion.  In fact, that's one of the points of focus groups, seeing how opinions evolve when people really think about an issue.  But almost no one puts that kind of effort into policy questions -- or into voting.

      Thus, the "scream" coverage kept the "Dean is angry" meme active in people's heads.  Had the main story of the week been the deficits implied by Bush's SOU, even if those stories didn't mention Dean directly they would have put budget-balancing abilities higher on voters' priority list when making that final decision.

      This also explains why it is so critical for campaigns to have their press spun perfectly, their ads just right, and their get-out-the-vote effort working well in the last few days.  Lots of voters don't make up their mind until the last 72 hours, and when they make those decisions the facts and concerns that they include will be heavily skewed towards those that they've seen/heard recently.  

      So yes, a trivial gaffe or a stong ad by an opponent just before an election can be deadly, if it connects with pre-existing worries about the candidate.  

      •  observing the social construction of reality (4.00 / 3)

        I moderate focus groups as part of my work, and often see groupthink rear its ditto head.  Sometimes a group will develop a unified standpoint on a new issue that is exactly opposite from that of a previous group comprised of demographically and psychographically similar participants.

        I [and many other focus group moderators] at times actively work to disrupt the group opinion (con)forming process -- especially when the research objective is to probe the "natural diversity" of unconscious opinions/values/motivations, vs. what memes or levers can most sway the emergence of specific social views of reality. The moderator must be truly neutral, yet gracefully challenging. It requires artful balance for a moderator to disrupt groupthink without him/herself significantly biasing respondents.

        It's all too easy for a moderator to in effect facilitate the construction of a false reality, and thereby produce misleading results -- without realizing it.  Survey technique and question wording holds similar pitfalls.

        Interesting question: What are the groupthink traps of each specific potential alternative to the Political Opinion Complex?  We can't assume that free dialogue by itself can resolve the dittohead problem.

        Civil society is our collective creation. It's an honorable source of growth, mutual satisfaction and fulfillment. It's yours and mine to nurture, or nix.

        by Civil Sibyl on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 06:06:47 AM PDT

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    •  Good ones (none / 0)

      I had to read Zaller and Iyengar in college.

      It works for me.

      Shorter theory:

      "When the media says 'Kerry Kerry Kerry', the voters will think 'Kerry' when they go and vote."

      ~Jimbo

      "Ownership Society"--Whereby Bush, et. al. own the rest of society.

      by JimTXDem on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:12:01 AM PDT

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    •  Very authoritative and much appreciated! (none / 0)

      dburbach, your post and its references bespeak a damnfine standard of excellence.  Quality contributions like yours are one of the best benefits of being part of the dKos community.

      I salute you.

      Civil society is our collective creation. It's an honorable source of growth, mutual satisfaction and fulfillment. It's yours and mine to nurture, or nix.

      by Civil Sibyl on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 05:26:36 AM PDT

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    •  What IS new... (none / 0)

      ...is the extent to which this well-known effect dominates politics today.

      20 years ago, media concentration was bad, particularly in television. Today, media concentration is far worse, with the possible slight exception of television (3.3 networks then vs. 4.9 today, arbitrarily counting PBS, the religious PAX, and the cable-only AOL Time Warner's CNN as .3 network apiece, and not counting UPN at all, since it's owned by CBS's owner, Viacom).

      Also, today's broadcast media doesn't have to abide by rules like the fairness doctrine designed to ensure they met their legal public-interest obligation. As a result, concern over the bottom line has caused the media to reduce their news and political coverage further and further, to the point that the punditocracy is one of the few remaining sources of political news for the average listener/viewer.

      "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

      by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:10:59 PM PDT

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  •  Two sets of comments (none / 1)

    There are two sets of replies to this post:
    (1) Those who say "yes, now how do we take advantage of it"
    (2) and those who question the causal relationship

    I fall into a third group:
    (3)  Its all true. Now WTF are we, as rational people, to do about it?

    Group mentality is a fact of human nature as an overwhelming number of psychologists, anthropologists, and evolutionary biologists have shown. But that doesnt make it good, or even best That social strategy may have been adaptive for humans in the past when they lived in small groups and were surrounded by people they knew and trusted, or at least knew to distrust. But in the age of megacities and mass media, their are no longer safeguads in place to make sure that herding is adaptive.

    The real question is, given that its true, what is to be done about it? How do you get people to think for themselves? Relying on Georege Soros, Michael Moore, and Al Franken is a bandaid solution to a deeper problem. I know I am not the only one who thinks everyone would be a liberal if they thought for themselves (or even thought at all). But how do you make it happen?

    •  A place to start (4.00 / 2)

      would be to bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Look at what's happened to AM radio since its demise, to say nothing of cable news.

      The polls don't tell us how a candidate is doing; they tell us how the media is doing.

      by Thumb on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:21:47 AM PDT

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      •  That's what I've said for a long time... (none / 0)

        I couldn't agree with you more.

        "Calmer than you are Dude....calmer than you"

        by sula on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:37:55 AM PDT

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      •  fairness doctorine (none / 1)

        I understand people who would like the fairness doctorine to be applied to radio.  There are just a limited number of bands availible in a market at any given time so its possible to monopolize.  But Cable news?  Right now there is a virtually unlimited number of channels available on Cable.  All you need in order to get your channel on a cable TV lineup is enough viewers who want to watch your station.  There is no  way for one company to monopolize the message of cable news other than making their shows so popular that no one else bothers to watch the competitors.  Cable News is like a newspaper to me in that you should be able to say anything you want to in a newspaper because there is nothing that you can do to prevent a competitor from coming on and presenting an alternate message.
        •  True, and... (none / 0)

          ...there would probably be First Amendment problems with trying to apply the fairness doctrine to cable. Freedom of the press, and all that.

          I think it's too late for radio. No one is going to propose shutting all the talk-radio stations down, which is exactly what the fairness doctrine would do since nobody is going to listen to talk radio that continually bounces back and forth between liberal and conservative views. It'd be like listening to a music station that bounced between C&W and hard rock.

          Broadcast TV, however, is different. The fairness doctrine should definitely be reinstated there.

          I do take issue with one of your statements: "All you need in order to get your channel on a cable TV lineup is enough viewers who want to watch your station." Not true. Except for scarce public access channels, cable TV isn't open-access; you can't get a station onto the cable feed just because you can afford the cable company's carriage fee. The cable company can still turn you down if they don't like your station's content.  And two companies, AOL Time Warner and Comcast, control most cable access in the U.S.

          So perhaps instead of a fairness doctrine for cable, we should have an open-access requirement. DBS has such a requirement, and even though it's limited and the FCC has enforced it poorly, you can still get Free Speech TV, which rebroadcasts Democracy Now, on Dish Network (Echostar) and Worldlink TV on Dish and DirecTV both.

          Of course, all of that's just dreaming unless/until we get rid of Bush. We badly need a friend at the FCC.

          "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

          by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 04:33:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You can't change human nature (none / 1)

      The only thing we can do is make our community and our interconnections deeper and wider.  Dean is right when he says the most valuable thing we have lost is our community.  If it is broadened, we will feel and connect to the deeper problems in our world.  
      •  Two words: Genetic Engineering (none / 0)

        Sorry, I've been serious all day, and I finally couldn't take it anymore.

        So I posted one facetious comment. Sue me.

        "Did I say 500 tons of sarin and 25,000 liters of anthrax? I meant 'weapons of mass destruction-related program activities.'" (-5.25, -5.64)

        by Mathwiz on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 05:27:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]