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I see this topic is now on Kos's main page. How about a little love for the originator of the concept?
The video to Eminem's scathing anti-Bush/pro-Vote video is up now at this site. You can also see it at these sites:
Update [2004-10-25 20:50:53 by DrFrankLives]:

Windows Media Player

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/interscope/eminem/encore/video/mosh-rev/000_mosh-rev.asx

Real Player

http://boss.streamos.com/real/interscope/eminem/encore/video/mosh-rev/000_mosh-rev.ram

Quicktime

http://movies10.archive.org/3/movies/Mosh2/GNN_Mosh_bb2.mov

or

http://boss.streamos.com/qtime/interscope/eminem/encore/video/mosh-rev/300_mosh-rev.mov


 The animation, done by the Guerrilla News Network's Ian Inaba, is astounding.

But what is really cool is the message in the song, which is made crystal clear by the end of the video.

VOTE and get rid of this President the old fashioned way.  The best revolution is fought int he ballot box, and Eminem makes his case well.

Update [2004-10-25 20:5:44 by DrFrankLives]:

Vote for this video on MTV's TRL by going here and scrolling to the bottom. Fill in "Eminem" and "Mosh", some brief info, and hit send. [link fixed]

You can also do the same thing on another show on MTV - click here for the hip hop request show. If we get all Kossacks to do this and vote several times, maybe they'll have the balls to play it.
We want this to be controversial, so they'll play it over and over and over. Here's a taste:

Take the President and strap him an AK.
Let him go fight his own war, let him impress Daddy that way...

Originally posted to DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 04:56 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Please recommend (3.96)
    People need to see this video and then call MTV and request it as much as you can.

    "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

    by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 04:55:27 PM PDT

    •  MTV (4.00)
      MTV plays music videos?

      "If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin." -- Charles Darwin

      by jkelly on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 04:57:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Holy hip hop nation (none)
      Damn thats good.
    •  While we're on videos let me recommend... (3.83)
      These are from one of my favorite artists' who used to front the band Tool but is now with a new group A Perfect Circle. These would be great to add to the list of TRL requests while we are doing that.

      The first is a cover of Imagine from John Lennin. The music isn't as good, but the imagery in the video makes up for it. For those of you regulars, people have already brought this up. Find it here:

      Imagine (low bandwidth)

      Imagine (high bandwidth)

      The second and more powerful in my opinion is a new song called Counting Bodies which is about following the president to war blindly. The graphics for this one are, like the Eminem video, animation. This is as powerful or more so than the Imagine video and I would recommend watching it second (so as not to disappoint on the Imagine video). See it here:

      Counting Bodies (low bandwidth)

      Counting Bodies (high bandwidth)

    •  How do we get this playing outside colleges on (none)
      election day with signs saying "Vote Now"?

      Vans to the poll. Free food.

      What group is working college campuses?

      •  We should study his lyrics. (4.00)
        This is Lakoff type stuff here. You could read his lyrics and learn a lot. He uses good metaphors and language and is a youth leader.

        Rageaholics are unfit for command. Rage as an addiction

        by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:03:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lyrics (none)
          [I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
          And to the Republic for which it stands
          One nation under God
          IndivisibleE
          It feels so good to be back..]

          Scrutinize every word, memorize every line
          I spit it once, refuel, reenergize, and rewind
          I give sight to the blind, mind sight through the mind
          I ostracize my right to express when I feel it's time
          It's just all in your mind, what you interpret it as
          I say to fight you take it as I'm gonna whip someone's ass
          If you don't understand don't even bother to ask
          A father who has grown up with a fatherless past
          Who has blown up now to rap phenomenon that has
          Or at least shows no difficulty multi task
          And juggling both, perhaps mastered his craft slash
          Entrepreneur who has held long too few more rap acts
          Who has had a few obstacles thrown his way through the last half
          Of his career typical manure moving past that
          Mister kiss his ass crack, he's a class act
          Rubber band man, yea he just snaps back

          Come along, follow me as I lead through the darkness
          As I provide just enough spark, that we need to proceed
          Carry on, give me hope, give me strength,
          Come with me, and I won't stear you wrong
          Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
          Till the light, at the end, of the tunnel, we gonna fight,
          We gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march through the swamp
          We gonna mosh through the marsh, take us right through the doors

          To the people up top, on the side and the middle,
          Come together, let's all bomb and swamp just a little
          Just let it gradually build, from the front to the back
          All you can see is a sea of people, some white and some black
          Don't matter what color, all that matters is we gathered together
          To celebrate for the same cause, no matter the weather
          If it rains let it rain, yea the wetter the better
          They ain't gonna stop us, they can't, we're stronger now more then ever,
          They tell us no we say yea, they tell us stop we say go,
          Rebel with a rebel yell, raise hell we gonna let em know
          Stomp, push up, mush, fuck Bush, until they bring our troops home come on just . . .

          Come along, follow me as I lead through the darkness
          As I provide just enough spark, that we need to proceed
          Carry on, give me hope, give me strength,
          Come with me, and I won't stear you wrong
          Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
          Till the light, at the end, of the tunnel, we gonna fight,
          We gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march through the swamp
          We gonna mosh through the marsh, take us right through the doors, come on

          Imagine it pouring, it's raining down on us,
          Mosh pits outside the oval office
          Someone's trying to tell us something, maybe this is God just saying
          we're responsible for this monster, this coward, that we have empowered
          This is Bin Laden, look at his head nodding,
          How could we allow something like this, Without pumping our fist
          Now this is our, final hour
          Let me be the voice, and your strength, and your choice
          Let me simplify the rhyme, just to amplify the noise
          Try to amplify the times it, and multiply it by six
          Teen million people are equal of this high pitch
          Maybe we can reach Al Quaida through my speech
          Let the President answer on high anarchy
          Strap him with AK-47, let him go
          Fight his own war, let him impress daddy that way
          No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our soil
          No more psychological warfare to trick us to think that we ain't loyal
          If we don't serve our own country we're patronizing a hero
          Look in his eyes, it's all lies, the stars and stripes
          They've been swiped, washed out and wiped,
          And Replaced with his own face, mosh now or die
          If I get sniped tonight you'll know why, because I told you to fight

          So come along, follow me as I lead through the darkness
          As I provide just enough spark, that we need to proceed
          Carry on, give me hope, give me strength,
          Come with me, and I won't stear you wrong
          Put your faith and your trust as I guide us through the fog
          Till the light, at the end, of the tunnel, we gonna fight,
          We gonna charge, we gonna stomp, we gonna march through the swamp
          We gonna mosh through the marsh, take us right through the doors

          [Eminem speaking angrily]
          And as we proceed, to mosh through this desert storm, in these closing statements, if they should argue, let us beg to differ, as we set aside our differences, and assemble our own army, to disarm this weapon of mass destruction that we call our president, for the present, and mosh for the future of our next generation, to speak and be heard, Mr. President, Mr. Senator

      •  Inducements (none)
        Free food is illegal in most states (offering any inducement to vote).

        Rides aren't illegal, though.

  •  This is huge (none)
    Hip hop is THE group that no one has reached out to. Eminem will deliver more of the right GOTV momentum than almost any 527.
    •  Don't forget P. Diddy (4.00)
      And his Vote or Die campaign.  
    •  Disagree... (none)
      Emimem may make some inroads, but 527s actually have boots on the ground making sure people get out to vote.  I think 527s are still probably have more impact than Eminem.  

      In Britain they admit to having royalty. In the United States we pretend we don't have any, and then we elect them president.

      by Asak on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:32:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No way... (none)
        ...this is a culture shift. Sure, GOTV beats this, but most message ads fail to reach out to otherwise ignored segments of the population. A young soldier gets this, but could care less about political chatter.
        •  You are both right (none)
          Eminem is simply not going to get the numbers to the polls that MoveOn and ACT will. It's not gonna happen. But...if this video and song got major play, it could influence a lot of members of the hip hop youth (whites, blacks, etc) to get out there and vote against Bush. I wish this video could have come out earlier and influenced people to register, but hopefully Fahrenheit 9/11 got that mission accomplished.

          Now it's up to Eminem to give them that final push into the voting booth, to say "This is why your vote matters". Instead of rioting in the streets, the youth can march right into city halls all across the country and VOTE. It's a powerful message for a certain demographic. But we have to get the video on the air.

          •  You are right. (none)
            How do we tie this in with our team that is working colleges? Quickly.
          •  I think you are missing the point (4.00)
            This song is an anthem. This is the voice of all of us, especially minorities, but all of us who are seething at what happened in Florida 2000, then 9/11, and every attempt to create an imperialist regime over the past four years.

            It was Nirvana and Pearl Jam who produced the last true generational anthems in the early 90's and Bill Clinton was the result.

            Eminem has produced something that is the voice of millions.

      •  Eminem is a leader to young people. (none)
        Young people may not listen to John Kerry, he's too old and cannot speak in their language. Eminem is young and speaks their language. Thats the difference.

        People should be studying Eminems lyrics to refine the message. Hopefully the Diary owner will post the lyrics.

        Rageaholics are unfit for command. Rage as an addiction

        by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:05:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  if only (2.63)
    eminem wasn't such an idiotic prick.
    •  Dude, (4.00)
      you have to watch this video.

      You won't say that again.

      "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

      by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:17:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  running against bush (2.54)
        running against bush is good.  being a bigoted prick is bad.  I';m glad he is doing a bush bashing video.  he is still a prick ass by my standards.
        •  You're perspective is myopic (3.90)
          You're viewing him through your filter and not understanding what he represents on his own terms. I think the whole misogyny/homophobia think is to some an extent a media creation that doesn't fully grasp that Eminem raps in a series of "characters" and takes certain quotes out of context.

          Ben P

          The United States has a conservative political culture defending a liberal heritage. The modern Republican Party's problem is that it is neither.

          by Ben P on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:29:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed. (3.75)
            I think there is value in understanding the context and filter of "young people's" music. [I've long thought that if people had looked at NWA's Fuck The Police as an indicator of what was happening in black Los Angeles, the Rodney King Riots could have been averted.] Certainly doesn't mean you have to agree with it. I think this video is tremendously powerful...
          •  I don't get Eminem (4.00)
            but then I'm pushing 50. Near as I can tell, I'm not supposed to get Eminem.

            But I do have to say, I heard "The Real Saddam Hussein" and thought, "You know, that's a good beat." (The tune is Eminem's "The Real Slim Shady," of course.)

            Then I was sitting in the movie theater and the trailer fro 8 Mile came on, which featured a clip from "I'm Sorry Mama," and I thought, "Wow, that's seriously good."

            And now this.

            I still can't see myself buying an Eminem CD. It's just not the kind of music I choose to listen to. But, if he has a positive message for the people who do listen to him, good for him.

            People who watch MTV and listen to Eminem may yet be our November Surprise.

            I cut down trees and evil doers, I serve a higher law.
            I wish I'd been elected, just like my dear Papa!

            by Our Man In Redmond on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:06:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  my father (4.00)
              loves Eminem, and he is 55.  It embarrassed my 17 year old brother at first, but eventually we got used to it being constantly in his car and hearing my father sing "my name is" and "my daddy's gone crazy!" around the house.  this year my brother gave him an Eminem CD for his birthday.
              •  Hooray! I'm Not Alone!!! (4.00)
                I'm 47, and I just lied on that TRL ballot...I said I was born in 1980. They'll probably still think a 24-year-old is too old for their demographic! But I don't feel old yet, and I still like some contemporary music like Eminem.

                "Mosh" is an extremely powerful video, and I am glad that Eminem's taken such a strong anti-Bush stand. A couple of young people I know like Bush's "strength," and this video and rap should make them think twice about that. (I've countered that argument with: where does "strength" end and pigheadedness begin?) They'll listen to Eminem before they listen to me!

                I hope this message gets out to Eminem fans. I'm just concerned that it might be a little late to get airplay before the election.

              •  Too funny (none)
                I'm 51 -- and gay to boot -- and Eminem is about the  only contemporary American musical "artist" whose CDs I buy the instant they come out.

                Actually, I find it hard to believe that someone my age -- with decades of experience consuming and comprehending popular culture -- *wouldn't" get Eminem. Not to be po-mo here, but provocative characters and stories in music goes back to the late 1960s, doesn't it?

                Mark my words: Eminem will go down in American musical history as the Stephen Sondheim of his generation.

                •  Stephen Sondheim!? (none)
                  You are hilarious.  Forgive my stereotyping, but yes, only a 51-year-old gay man would make that comparison.  I'm sure Em's management won't be pushing him as our generation's Stephen Sondheim anytime soon.
                  •  Either (none)
                    you don't know Sondheim or you don't understand Eminem.

                    And yes, your stereotyping is offensive. Maybe you'd be a little less "sick and tired" if you opened your mind a bit.

                    •  My comment (none)
                      was intended in only the most lighthearted way.  I was saying that I liked your comparison.  Should have done a better job telegraphing my tone, I guess.  But I'm in theatre, so when I talk about 51-year-old gay men and Sondheim, there is only love, I promise.  It's not that I think only 51-year-old gay men can like Sondheim, it's that unfortunately too few people who are not 51-year-old gay men have any idea who he is.  I certainly didn't mean to challenge you.
                      •  I overreacted. (none)
                        Sorry.

                        And of course you're absolutely right about how few people know and appreciate Sondheim. Sad but true.

                      •  Not to mention (none)
                        Stephen Sondheim absolutely obliterated William Safire on the topic of Clinton's impeachment. Safire was so dumbstruck he devoted an "On Language" column to analyzing how good Sondheim's letter was. The letter ended with the request

                        "tell him [Safire] to go back to his roots."

                        -- in one stroke mockingly quoting Safire's old boss Nixon and letting Safire know he's better with etymology than political commentary. Delicious.

                        If only Sweden had an army...what a coalition we could have had.

                        by Thoreaufare on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:58:43 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  My sentiments too ... (none)
                  I'm 51 too, I certainly "get" Eminem.  

                  Anyone that was plugged into the 60's, lived through the upheaval in society and use of music to communicate what was going on has to have some affinity to artists such as Eminem - even if it's not within their personal musical tastes.

                  This video two-by-foured me in the forehead.

                  "Self-respect is the keystone of democracy"

                  by neverontheright on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:54:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  And now I've seen the video (none)
              and I have to say . . .

              DAMN! That is AMAZING. Say anything you want about this guy, but it's pretty obvious he loves his country.

              I may have to rethink buying that CD. Not because I would ever listen to it (I have two sons who are into ICP so maybe they would like it) but because it's the only way I can think of to throw the guy some money by way of saying "Job well done." Too bad that if I do most of the purchase price will go to those bastards at the record company and the RIAA.

              I cut down trees and evil doers, I serve a higher law.
              I wish I'd been elected, just like my dear Papa!

              by Our Man In Redmond on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:57:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  8 Mile was powerful (none)
              It was really quite an incredible movie.

              The music wasn't even the best part.

              "If any question why we died, Tell them, because our fathers lied." - Rudyard Kipling, 1918

              by Steve4Clark on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 02:41:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Is the term (none)
          prick ass homophobic?

          just askin'

          President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

          by wunderwood on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:14:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  eminem is a genius (4.00)
      well respected by the hip hop community where to be a credible white rapper, you better be twice as good an MC.

      yes yes, i know to politically correct liberals, his homophobia and misogyny are turnoffs. but there is a raw honesty, no bullshit pretense to Eminem. it's why the kids love him. i'm not a huge fan of his content and whiny putdowns of celebs, but the man has skillz. and i'm thrilled he's come out against Bush. if we wanna start winning back some white males, having folks like Eminem on our side is a good start.

      •  raw honesty? (2.60)
        try raw bigotry.  I'm glad he is on our side with Bush and I think its good he has a video (that I can't watch on that site) that bashes Bush.  He is still a prick though.
        •  Like one of Cole's collegues said... (4.00)
          Eminem is a bootlegger, but that does not mean we should reject him outright.

          This is about something more important than previous differences.

        •  no one says (4.00)
          that truman capote is a seriel killer because he wrote In Cold Blood.

          Maybe that's a bad example because that's not fiction... what about Stephen King...?  crazed killer at heart?

          •  huh (none)
            wtf does fiction have to do with the real eminem?  I am not talking about a couple of song lyrics.  And I didn't even suggest that Eminem was some person in a song of his. wtf?  Are people really that offended that I called Eminem a prick?  get real.
            •  call eminem whatever you want (4.00)
              his songs are fiction.

              I have no idea why you think he's a bigot, I assumed it was from his song lyrics.

              I'm not offended a bit by your calling him a prick either.  Do you mind discussing your opinion?

              •  good (none)
                it was the assumption that bugged me.  i was just stating my opinion.  don't care enough to really argue it.
              •  ...um, i agree with seamus (3.50)
                One song with Elton John does not a de-bigoting make.  I can't stand the guy.

                Besides, there are tons of other strong, intelligent, politicized, impassioned, and powerful rap artists out there who have been pushing against this fucked-up administration in their work and their message.

                ...too bad they're all black.

                This video is powerful because it has the potential to reach white kids.  That's remarkable, and incredibly important.  But it doesn't make me respect Mr. Mathers any more.  I'm sorry--one too many (or hundreds too many) faggot jokes, faggot cut-downs, and women-thrown-in-trunks songs for my taste.  

                I'll stick with Chuck D. and Common.

                (I still freeped TRL, regardless).

                •  and Blackalicious (none)
                  Gift of Gab.

                  I wouldn't go so far as to urge anyone to "respect Mr. Mathers".

                •  "Too bad they're all black"? (4.00)
                  Eminem is not popular because he's white, he's popular because his raps are so fucking good. You don't see Bubba Sparxx getting all this attention for his raps about being poor white trash. The only black artist to match Em recently is Jadakiss with "Why". Chuck D is okay on Air America but hasn't had a good rap song in about ten years.
                •  Did you really just say that? (none)
                  Tell me you mean, it's too bad there aren't more white artists with the courage and wit that these black artists exhibit.

                  Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

                  by perspicio on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:07:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  well in that case S King (none)
            is probably a woman
        •  Shame on you all (4.00)
          for trollrating seamus.  We don't want unanimity here--that's for Bush rallies.

          I'll chime in.  I have listened to eminem and made a real effort to understand what he was about when he skyrocketed to fame.  I like some rap, although I'm a 36-year-old white guy with a family, so not a TRL target.

          Eminem is clearly talented, but socially immature to say the least.  Prick is the perfect word for him.

          Having said that, this video is the bomb.  The song's ok, not his best, but combined with the video it is pure dynamite for our side.  Get it out there however we can.

          Go ahead and troll rate me.  Or you could think for a moment and tell me how he's not a prick instead.  Your choice.

          •  As someone turning 35 in a couple weeks (4.00)
            I noticed Eminem's talent from the start, but was turned off by his immature rants about his mother, his wife, his children, gay people, and so on.

            But as time goes on, I think he's maturing, and this is just another sign of that. He's increasingly tackling relevant social issues, and not just in this video. I haven't listened to all his music so it's possible the homophobia and misogyny and self-loathing is still there, but I get a sense it's on the backburner to a certain degree even if it's there.

            Also, like a lot of young American white guys, he's got a lot of internalized anger and prejudice to deal with, and even in his early work he's remarkable by the fact that he deals with it, publicly, in his music. Would he be as good an artist if he ignored his darker thoughts and just talked about what people wanted to hear?

            Eminem seems to be evolving by his confrontation of these issues, exactly the ones that offend his critics. He's a role model whether he or his critics like it or not. If he could go through a process of brutal and public self-examination and come out the other side a better man, he could provide an example to other people with similar attitudes to confront them themselves.

            A couple of years ago, if he would have done a video like this at all (and he did do at least one video critical of Bush) it would have suggested some immature and destructive course of action. But this video ends with a plea to channel action into voting. That's maturity, and he should be judged by his journey and where he is now, and not where he was five years ago. Given what I see, I can't call him a prick.

      •  It's your speech: own it (3.66)
        Eminem has made bigoted comments about women and gays. Period.

        I am sure southern white racists were also cool and relevant in their communities when they beat and burned black people, but that didn't make them right.

        Don't blame political correctness for your apologist view of bigoted speech.

        You are the one who views gay bashing and women bashing as merely politically correct jibberjabber.

        It's your view. Own it. Don't blame it on someone else.

        •  The video stands (4.00)
          And I see no homophobia, racism or sexism there.

          I have never liked rap, and Eminem in particular turned me so far off that I would get irritated hearing the bass from my neighbor's apartment.

          But what I saw here cut through all bullshit, all prior crap, all of that. It was powerful. Nuanced. I saw strong women, people uniting, a powerful anti-racism message and a HELL of a call to power.

          Will I go out and become an Eminem fan and fawn all over his prior stuff? Nope.

          But this stands. It is outstanding on every level.

          Sometimes the messenger comes crawling and covered with pox, and the message is still good.

          Sometimes the message comes from an unlikely source and is still valid.

          Do not fall into the ad hominem trap and discard this work of art simply because you do not like the artist.

          My respect for Eminem climbed measurably with this.

          I am a feminist, a staunch advocate for gay rights, and a mother of a kid who's just getting to the age where this genre of music tends to become appealing.

          This is not about "winning back white males". It's not about political correctness. It's about survival, and the video brings it home.

          George Bush is Nehemiah Scudder

          by jenrose on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 04:56:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  wtf? (4.00)
        homophobia and misogyny don't turn me off because I'm a politically correct liberal. They turn me off because they suck.

        Don't be a jerk.

        Eminem is a work in progress. Just like all of us. He's growing, changing, getting righteous, letting go of all that stupid crap. You are right, he is a bloody genius. But homophobia still sucks, and so does your dumb-ass jibe at people who don't like it.

        •  work in progress (4.00)
          that's what all of us are. i struggle every day with class, race, gender, sexual orientation prejudices, despite my nice ivy league degrees and my work for progressive causes. Feminists would rather denounce Eminem instead of examining the very real, raw feelings that lead to his rage against women. his mom was a coked up nutcase from what i gather. Kim seems to have a few screws loose too. i forced myself to listen to the song "Kim" even though it terrified me at times--but the pain, the anger, was so raw and real that i was compelled to listen to it and try to understand why Eminem had these feelings of rage towards women. that's how we attack misogyny. we shouldn't just say, "eminem sucks and hates women and he's a prick. don't listen to him." i think we have to engage those emotions, esp. the very deep-seated homophobia in the hip hop community. overcoming oppression is "hard work" to quote our President. that's why i find Eminem's work so provocative and interesting. My fave MC of all time, Tupac, was not without his contradictions towards women and gays. certain liberals would just like to denounce all hip hop and not bother listening to it.
          •  The music business (4.00)
            It has a certain package of rebellion it wants to sell.  And when the music business wants something, there are always people elbowing each other to give it to them.

            Hip-hop isn't my subculture, but punk has been for many years now.  The rules with regard to what the industry wants from each are similar, paerallel if not identical.  It wants posture, not substance in its rebellion.  They want acts that will be "bad" but threaten nothing of the status quo, hopefully reinforcement.  And the stardom dream is enough for many to give them exactly what they want, which they'll take, as long as they make a buck of them, and then spit them back out hollow husks.  It's why DIY is so important, it's the only way to avoid the meatgrinder.

            The industry wants lots of shouting about hos and fags, such "bad" boys, oh look, they're showing off their abs.  It sure beats getting confronted with stuff like--and here I'll show you just how old I am--Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge I'm just trying not to lose my head It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under.   Later I liked Digable Planets and Arrested Development, but the industry defines the sound and the market for the public, not vice versa, consumers are taught to demand what the industry wants them to demand.  Snoop, now there's a model the industry can get behind.  Like from my world they want Blink-182 right?  Sometimes accidents happen, a Public Enemy breaks through, and they have to spend 5 years upping the intensity of the faux-rebellion to distract the market from the real thing.

            </anti-corpotainmentcomplex rant>  

            •  Maybe I'm showing my age, too (4.00)
              Very, very well said! Or typed, for the sticklers.

              My Dad LOVED "The Message" when I was growing up...and now I understand why.  I liked the beat then; we live the lyrics now.  Good music/lyrics/skills just speak to you, which is why I'm blown away by Eminem's work here.  

              BTW, I checked out of rap when Digable Planets was traded for 40s and blunts and b------.  

              I think, therefore I'm damned.

              by AuntiePeachy on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:21:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  digable planets (none)
                were da bomb. loved them. there is still a lot of good hip hop out there. it may not be on BET or MTV, but it exists (Blackilicious, Pharcyde, Common, Mos Def, Jean Grae, Ugly Duckling, Del Tron, Mr Lif etc etc). Even a statement like Jesus Walks by Kanye West is inspiring. glad that's gotten a lot of airplay.
                •  Why, oh why, do the (none)
                  ...positive, and dare I say "conscious" acts get almost no airplay?  Makes me crazy!

                  I just LOVE Mos Def as an actor/poet, but I've never experienced his music.  In fact, to further show my age, of the acts you listed, I only know of Pharcyde/Common/Mos Def/Kanye West (he almost doesn't count b/c he's everywhere these days).  I can't deal with the Hip Hop/R&B stations, because every other song just features some ignorant, DMX-biting grunts over a beat.  

                  So my (I should say "our" since the hubby and I share part of the communte) radio listening consists of NPR & the Tom Joyner Morning Show.  But our music collection is quite varied: Anita Baker CDs, O Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack CD; Sade on DVD and Rage Against the Machine DVD.  If we hear good music, insightful lyrics and are moved, then we purchase.

                  I'm genuinely moved by Eminem's work here.  That said, it's going to take a bit more for me to support him financially.  He functions and is marketed as if the Elvis of Hip Hop, and I have issues with that. Though I'd suspect that he dislikes some--maybe even many--aspects of this, he's still a willing actor.  But there's no denying his work in this instance.

                  I think, therefore I'm damned.

                  by AuntiePeachy on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:14:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  thanks for the suggestions (none)
                  I'll check it out.  I'm familiar with some of the names (Mos Def, Pharcyde) but haven't really checked any of it out, I'll give them a listen.
          •  asdf (none)
            Feminists would rather denounce Eminem instead of examining the very real, raw feelings that lead to his rage against women. his mom was a coked up nutcase from what i gather. Kim seems to have a few screws loose too.

            If you had an abusive husband, that's what he'd say as well - I beat you because I had a bad childhood, because I work all day at a shitty job, because you're crazy, because my ex-girlfriend was an addict and I'm still stressed from it, etc., etc...

            They love throwing the blame onto other people and pretending that they are really the victim. They want your sympathy and understanding but it doesn't make them take responsibility for their actions.

      •  he's n ot homophobic, it's satire NM (none)
        NM
      •  "Genius" is a bit much (none)
        He's certainly talented, but I personally can't stand the guy because of the mysogeny and homophobia you already noted.  His music doesn't do anything for me either, but I don't like rap to begin with.

        "Revolutionary debris litters the floor of Wall Street." -Kurt Cobain, Diaries

        by Subterranean on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:15:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thats why (none)
        People need to tap that genius and somehow get Eminem involved.  He could write speeches or do a lot of stuff for the party if the party were to reach out to him.

        Rageaholics are unfit for command. Rage as an addiction

        by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:08:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  His "bigotry" is a media construction (4.00)
      It's largely a false, sensationalistic construction based on a single line in one of the songs from his first album.

      Eminem attempted to the record straight in his semi-autobiographical movie "8 mile".  There's a powerful scene where he sticks up for a gay co-worker.

      •  THANK YOU, ALAN (4.00)
        All that homophobia is an act.  All of these personalities are completely crafted for the MTV generation.  Don't believe the hype, seamus.  Eminem is very gifted, and he can reach the disaffected youth like noone else I can think of.

        Got a gun, fact I got two. That's OK man, cause I love God -- Pearl Jam

        by Muboshgu on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:47:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the homophobia is immature language (none)
          usually he's calling someone gay to insult that person.

          immature... and yes a part of homophobia, but also blown out of proportion.

          Like saying Pryor was racist to use the n-word.  Just like it in that Pryor eventually thought so... but still was not racist.

          •  nononono! (none)
            There is a HYOOOOOOOOOOGE difference between usage of the n-word by black artists and usages of "faggot" by straight people.  

            I accept that it's immature.

            It's still fucking hate speech.  In fact, it's immature fucking hate speech.  

            I, for one, don't feel a ton better knowing that he's "just" using faggot as an insult.  

            •  agreed (none)
              as I said, that's still part of homophobia, but not quite what he's accused of.

              Your point wins on merit however.

              •  And to his credit... (none)
                I do agree w/ posts below:  

                he's certainly not the first musician (hiphop or otherwise) to deal in homophobia and misogyny in order to establish credibility.  

                I'm still all for calling a bucket a bucket.  I don't like hearing  "faggot" shot around as if it were no more inconsequential than "jerk" or "asshole."  

            •  Riddle me this... (none)
              spoooky, have you ever shut your hand in the door and exclaimed "cock sucker" or called someone a "mother fucker"? If exclaimed cock sucker are you being derogatory to everyone who has ever done that, male and female? Or if you call someone a mother fucker, are you degrading your dad?

              What I'm trying to get at is that everything that one says does not have to be, and in many cases should not be, taken literally.

              •  literal does not equal derrogatory (none)
                this is important.

                "faggot" is bad even IF it's not actually a "faggot" you're talking to. you get that?

                (that said, I believe that among people you trust who won't misjudge your meaning, like when it's just me the fag hagh and my brown homo friends, you can get past language as maker of meaning and camp-ify it.Maybe Em is just so cocky he trusts everybody not to misjudge him... or doesn't care if they do.)

                "Write something, even if it's just a suicide note." Gore Vidal.

                by Drunky Brewster on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:55:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  'zactly: (none)
                  Doesn't care if they do.

                  Part of the culture is the use of strong language.  Finding your buttons and pushing 'em.  It may seem like hate, but it's like in the military: they make you face your weaknesses, your vulnerabilities.  For your own good.  At least, that's the principle.

                  One thing I appreciate about it is it desensitizes you to labels, allowing deeper meanings to emerge (when they are present).  So much of the point of this type of music is to emphasize the stereotypes so loudly that they lose their meanings.  They actually come to represent their own narrowness.

                  Check out Youngblood Brass Band.  One favorite song: Peace.  It's largely restrained, but not without barbs.  Plus, the brass band is, itself, quite good.

                  Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

                  by perspicio on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:19:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  strong language (none)
                    when American soldiers in Vietnam used the word 'gook' over and over and over, I don't think it helped them face their weaknesses. Since it dehumanized the enemy, maybe it helped them fight and stay alive. But outside of a battle zone...
                    •  Point taken. (none)
                      However, to my knowledge the strong language in this case has not been used to describe the group to whom it is usually applied.  Again, its an example of using stereotypes to push buttons rather than to perpetuate the stereotype.  Like blacks (and others) using the term "nigger" out of its "suthun'-racist" context.  It separates the word from its familiar context, and effectively helps to devalue the stereotype by robbing it of some of its impact.

                      Words are often confused with meanings.  And PC is born.

                      "It's just all in your mind, what you interpret it as
                      I say to fight you take it as I'm gonna whip someone's ass
                      If you don't understand don't even bother to ask..."

                      Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. --Friedrich Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil)

                      by perspicio on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 12:22:24 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Gotta disagree (none)
                  I would have to respectfully disagree...I don't think that any word is automatically derogatory in any context it happens to be used. Now I'm not a linguist, and I am not old enough to know myself, however my mother always used to tell me that when she was a child nobody said fuck, ever. It was just a word that registered with such magnitude with people that nobody used it. Now however it has been stripped of most of it's sexual connotation and is being used as an exclamation point (I let it slip ocaisionally in front of my boss and I do Microbiology research...).

                  For the most part faggot or fag or queer has morphed in much the same way. The word is a curse word because it used to be the harshest thing to say to someone who was gay. Now however it has that meaning but people in my generation and younger use it instead of asshole, that word has lost much of its punch. I'm not saying it can't be used as a dreogatory remark, and I'm not saying that Eminem hasn't used it as such, however from what I'm getting some here think it's derogatory, period, no discussion. I would have to disagree.

              •  It's a good point... (4.00)
                but I am a cocksucker.  As such, I think it's kind of a super thing to be, and don't personally feel its weight as an insult.  Perspective thing.  I know there are tons of queerboys who still use cocksucker to mean jerk.  I think it's kind of like using "gay" to say "dumb," personally.

                On the other hand, I toss around "Jesus Christ" like crazy but mean no ill will or disrespect towards Christians or their faith.  Offensive language is effective at airing strong negative emotions.

    •  he's not a prick (4.00)
      the homophobia is played up by the media for ratings.  it isn't true.  he's just a guy trying to be controvertial to sell albums, but he also makes some really good points and he makes them well.

      Got a gun, fact I got two. That's OK man, cause I love God -- Pearl Jam

      by Muboshgu on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:50:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  cya (none)
        you seriously believe that?  media construction.  I've never once seen a media report on eminem.  cover his ass.  I don't care.  he is what he is.
        •  just curious (none)
          it's not his lyrics, and it's not media reports... what is it then?  personal contact?
        •  it is a media construct (none)
          they seize on anything and blow it out of proportion for ratings.  if you never saw a media report on him, you werent paying attention a couple years ago.  when groups started protesting him, the media jumped on it and his record sales went up, and thats what it was all about.  then he went on stage with elton john and shut it up.

          Got a gun, fact I got two. That's OK man, cause I love God -- Pearl Jam

          by Muboshgu on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:36:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well, one way or another... (none)
          one way or another you seem to know enough about Eminem to make your decision. Where did you get that information from, if not ultimately from a media company?

          I remember when Time magazine did one of their pieces on the evil violent content of rock music; this was just after Trent Reznor put out Further Down the Spiral. So, Time quotes lyrics from his song "Big man with a Gun" to show how nasty, evil Trent Reznor is encouraging kids to kill people.

          Anyone actually familiar with the song knows that it's exactly the opposite, a mockery of the violent badass cowboy mindset---but it's a mockery sung in the first person, so it's easy to grossly misinterpret. As someone said above, this is like quoting Pennywise from Stephen King's "IT" as representing King himself.

          Caj

          •  nin (none)
            I am a real sucker for pieces in Time about the evils of rock music.  Are you serious?
            •  man, you sound like ken mehlman (3.00)
              You throw around insults but don't back them up. Eminem is not a "bigot" or an "idiot", and only somebody stuck in a tightwad thought control universe, adhering to politically correct speech, would think so. Just because a rapper says the word "bitch" doesn't mean they hate women or beat women, it's just the way people talk. The same thing with using the word "fag" as interchangable with "punk" or "wuss" or "asshole". It's rough language that I don't defend, but hell, I've used the words myself in the past and I have gay friends.

              Bob Dylan used the "n-word" in his song Hurricane, that doesn't mean he's a racist. He was there with MLK at the "I have a dream" speech. Artists should not be censored, especially if the whole message is a good one.

              I think half of Eminem's songs are trite and petty, but the ones where he actually takes himself seriously are damn good.

              •  no (none)
                First of all, if I was trying to be politically correct I wouldn't have called him a prick idiot.  You think Eminem and Dylan are edgy?  Give me a friggin' break.  God forbid you were introduced to the Dayglo abortions or something.

                Just because an artist is trying to be edgy doesn't mean they aren't bigots or pricks.  Your pc sensitivity seems to have difficulty understanding the difference between being an ass and being creative.  Just because you have gay friends doesn't mean you aren't being a bigoted ass.  

                The reason Dylan's use of the "n-word" isn't bigoted has nothing to do with whether or not he was at MLK's speech.  You can be at MLK's speech and still be a bigot.  Dylan's use of that word is proper because of the song itself which is about how black men are unjustly accused and about a particular instance.

                And just for the record, where did I suggest censoring Eminem?  Artists should not be censored but that doesn't mean they aren't jerks.  You'd think that Eminem was some sort of saint with idiots like you trolling me for insulting the ego of an egomaniac.

                •  I think (4.00)
                  that basically Eminem was a punk-ass kid with a hell of a lot of talent and no filter between his brain and his mouth.

                  I also think he's growing up, as this song and video show very clearly.

                  "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

                  by DrFrankLives on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 08:08:10 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Old news (4.00)

      Dude, I think you're a little behind the times on eminem.

      He's no saint, but the guy's cleaned up his reputation on the bigot front.  Most people get that he's anti-hate but talks street.  It's a tightwalk.  But most PC-leaning progressives I know give him the benefit of the doubt these days.

      •  Exactly (none)
        Eminem is not "afraid of gays", nor is he a bigot. In fact he's probably more open-minded as far as race relations than most upper class white suburban liberals. Eminem grew up living around poor folks of all colors, he past that racial stuff more than most of us. And regarding gays, Eminem just talks in the same manner as many macho guys on the street talk. They call names, they use terms that aren't P.C., but that's just how the street is. Eminem showed class by performing with Elton John and having that scene in 8 Mile, which for him is a lot. Not everyone has a bunch of gay friends like those of us in liberal enclaves.
    •  With all of the peecee discussion... (4.00)
      ...couldn't the term for male genitalia (i.e. "prick") be considered offensive to some on this site? Perhaps we should refer to him by some other body part, such as a "toe" or an "eyeball" or a "liver"?

      I mention this, because I have heard people on this site take umbrage to the term "cocksucker" used in a derogatory fashion, and I now know bye reading comments here that some folks feel strongly that Mr. Eminem "sucks" (which seems to me to be just a variant of "cocksucker", although perhaps he is "sucking" something else other than male genitalia..)

      [ This politically correct stuff sure is tough to keep up with! ]

      So!! Can we all agree that at least some folks find this offering to be a great music video and perhaps even inspiring? Not all of us, but hey...

      I confess that I have, in the past, been pretty "pissed off" with Mr. Eminem, as well (perhaps there are some "urinary issues" here? ...Am I am offending people that can't hold their water?)

      I was concerned that Eminem seemed to be (according to the mainstream media) a misogynist. Be that as it may, I am happy to try to let bygones be bygones... to have him "clean up his act"... if such is the case (...although I don't want to discriminate against those folks out there that aren't as obsessively tidy as some others may be!).

      I am especially happy to let the "bygones" be whatever "bygones" are.. IF it will help us in our main goal, which is that of replacing Mr. Bush with Mr. Kerry!

      SO! Thank you for your help in this, Mr. Eminem!

      President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

      by wunderwood on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:10:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  apparently (none)
        apparently, calling him a prick is pc too!  Do you get that?

        seriously, all of what you say is quite funny and correct.  I never said it was bad that he did a video (that I haven't seen yet).  In fact my whole point was that it was good and that it was "too bad" that he was an "idiotic prick" because of he wasn't, that would be cooler!  Maybe I should call him Saint Eminem?

    •  Jesus. Listen to yourselves. (none)
      Gift Horse.  Mouth.

      If we're going to argue this much over something totally irrelevant to the rather more important matter at hand, how on earth are we ever going to govern when we win?

      The Madness of King George

      by magnus on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:15:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i agree (none)
        if i had known that my comment would result in such a thread of ridiculousnesss I would never have posted it.  It was only meant as a passing comment.  I never said it was a bad video. In fact it is great!  And I think it is great that eminem did it.  If I distracted from the conversation I apologize for the distraction.
        •  I don't blame you! (none)
          I don't blame anyone, really.  Yours was a fair comment.

          I just think the 'he's a homophobe.  No he's a genius.  No he's sexist.  There are better hip-hop artists.  Did I mention he's anti-gay?' dialogue kind of underscores our enemies' lies that we're hand-wringing wet-blanket flip-floppers.

          The Madness of King George

          by magnus on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:45:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Great lyrics (4.00)
    You can find complete lyrics for Eminem's song over at Juan Cole's site www.juancole.com.  Scroll halfway down the page.

    Worth reading.  My favorite lines are:

    "Imagine it pouring, it's raining down on us,
    Mosh pits outside the oval office
    Someone's trying to tell us something, maybe this is God just saying
    we're responsible for this monster, this coward, that we have empowered
    This is Bin Laden, look at his head nodding,
    How could we allow something like this, Without pumping our fist
    Now this is our, final hour
    Let me be the voice, and your strength, and your choice
    Let me simplify the rhyme, just to amplify the noise
    Try to amplify the times it, and multiply it by six
    Teen million people are equal of this high pitch
    Maybe we can reach Al Quaida through my speech
    Let the President answer on high anarchy
    Strap him with AK-47, let him go
    Fight his own war, let him impress daddy that way
    No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our soil
    No more psychological warfare to trick us to think that we ain't loyal
    If we don't serve our own country we're patronizing a hero
    Look in his eyes, it's all lies, the stars and stripes
    They've been swiped, washed out and wiped,
    And Replaced with his own face, mosh now or die"

    •  Best line (4.00)
      "This is Bin Laden, look at his head nodding"

      That right there sums up the epic blunder of the Bush administration. Bin Laden kills 3000 people, and what do we do? We go invade Iraq and depose Saddam Hussein. And Bin Laden is still out there, nodding his head, accomplishing goals beyond his wildest dreams.

      Richard Clarke wrote a whole book on the subject. And Eminem sums it up in one line.

    •  Cool! (none)
      I must admit, he's a great lyricist, poignant and raw.  But I still don't like his music.  

      "Revolutionary debris litters the floor of Wall Street." -Kurt Cobain, Diaries

      by Subterranean on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 01:23:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Liking Eminem (none)
        I initially didn't like him, but he's grown on me.  He's talented, and I think what I like about him is his honesty with himself.

        Eminem has a lot to teach us, and there's definately a lesson having to do with race relations, working class backgrounds, and just understanding where people come from.

        I think it's worth studying what he's saying.

        "If any question why we died, Tell them, because our fathers lied." - Rudyard Kipling, 1918

        by Steve4Clark on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 02:35:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Genius (none)
      Now if we could only figure out how he does this, we could have better speech writers.

      The best speech I've heard from a democrat was Barack Obama, but Eminem is perhaps one of the best poets in the world, someone like Eminem could write a speech as music, in an elegant way. This is exactly what you'd need for any movement. You need poetic speeches to energize the base.

      Rageaholics are unfit for command. Rage as an addiction

      by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:11:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The visuals from the video rock too. (4.00)
      The look of the video seems to be based on the bande dessinées (French "comic books") that Philippe Squarzoni did for the French anti-globalization movement ATTAC.

      Eminem is therefore in pretty damn good company here.

      I must say I was sceptical when I read about this video on Juan Cole's blog but Eminem really does understand his audience, and this piece--if it manages to get any airplay before Tuesday--should really help push its target demographic to vote. I was so impressed that I watched four times in a row.

  •  Anyone have... (none)
    A bittorrent link? That site seems to be incredibly slow (or is it me?)
  •  Yes (none)
    You can "freep" TRL. I remember some writers from Spin (?) freeped an old New Kids on the Block song onto the countdown a couple years ago and they played it.

    Ben P

    The United States has a conservative political culture defending a liberal heritage. The modern Republican Party's problem is that it is neither.

    by Ben P on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:30:43 PM PDT

    •  ashamed of myself (4.00)
      I've read Kos for months, and this is the first time I've been persuaded to freep anything.

      ...And it was MTV?

      Good political art is not easy to make. That video should be seen.

      •  same here with me (none)
        this is big and great. I hope it will be effective out there.

        Keep Your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars. . .

        by private5star on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:00:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Political art (4.00)
         I believe politically active artists and other who believe in freedom of expression can be the liberal equivalent of the Christian conservatives with the right organization. Mody's work with MoveOn, Stringsteen's work with ACT, and now Eminem video are all examples of new alliances between artist and progressive causes. Art is an important part of many people's lives, maybe as much as religion.

        There is a strong correlation between freedom of speech and peaceful dissent.

        by Bryce in Seattle on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 02:02:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks (4.00)
      I'll put these in an update

      "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

      by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 05:45:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Jesus (4.00)
        If I was a GOP operative and I just saw that I'd be very, very scared.

        I'm flabbergasted at the excellent quality of animation and imagery.  Holy Christ, somebody has some phenomenal talent.  I could barely hear it 'cause everybody is still asleep here.

        Damn I want to march.  Right fokking now.  Just this huge mass of silent, dignified humans, overwhelming Washington.

        GOP:  Feel the fear, mo-fo's.  The Reaper has arrived, and you have only 7 days left.

  •  Voting (none)
    Followed your link, scrolled down, nothing there, but at the top of the page was a note that said "thanks for voting."  Went to MTV main page and looked all over, used the search function . . . nothing.  I see nowhere I can vote for this.

    No man is justified in doing evil on the grounds of expediency.--Teddy Roosevelt

    by Leslie in CA on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:13:31 PM PDT

  •  I'm recommending (none)
    I'm only 80% of the way through, but this video sends some strong images.

    War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. -- (Big Brother) Karl Rove

    by InnerParty on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:17:49 PM PDT

  •  recommended! (none)

    "you.... shall... not... pass!"

    by sunzoo on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:20:35 PM PDT

  •  POWERFUL (none)
    If we win, it will be because we open our tent just that much more for tons of kids like Eminem, flaws and all.

    What a message! This cuts right to the working class kids, like the targets of the recruiters in F911, who need to understand that they are being ground into the dirt by the corporate criminals of this administration.

  •  Recommended! (4.00)
    Middle-aged librarian who finds most rap irritating says this video is flat out inspiring....
    •  Agreed (4.00)
      As a 25 year old who grew up when rap was coming of age and who has always despised it (I was a Metal/grunge guy myself) I have to say this is some of the best work not only on the lyrics, but the video I have seen since the days when MTV was young.

      The imagery was outstanding, and quite inspiring. I especially liked the lyrics:

      As we set aside our differences
      and assemble our own army
      to disarm this weapon of mass destruction
      that we call our president

      That hasn't happened in the democratic party for some time...glad it's happening now!

      •  ...for the present (none)
        that we call our president....for the present.

        I like the "for the present" part.

        "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

        by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:00:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Another endorsement? (4.00)
    The Financial Times, former Republican senators, Eminem. If we get the Pope, we are on a roll!

    "Today there is no substantial challenge to American ideals. The question is this: Where, with all our wealth and capabilities, do we lead mankind?" Gen. Clark

    by theprogressivemiddle on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:41:45 PM PDT

  •  I think the best image (4.00)
    was Bush wearing the army fatigues being handed an AK-47.

    Got a gun, fact I got two. That's OK man, cause I love God -- Pearl Jam

    by Muboshgu on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:44:50 PM PDT

    •  I loved the Bin Laden portion... (4.00)
      ...where the woman is distracted by yet another TERROR ALERT and images of Bin Laden after she gets her eviction notice is one of the best parts. It would also be the most controversial, because the Bin Laden section turns out to be a setup with fake background, etc.

      Wingnuts would say that Eminem is simply buying into conspiracies that Bin Laden isn't real or some such hogwash. In fact, here is what Eminem said in a new Rolling Stone interview:

      I think he [Bush] started a mess.  America is the best country there is, the best country to live in. But he's fuckin' that up and could run our country into the ground.  He jumped the gun, and he fucked up so bad he doesn't know what to do right now. He's in a tailspin, running around like a dog chasing its tail. And we got young people over there dyin', kids in their teens, early twenties that should have futures ahead of them. And for what? It seems like a Vietnam 2. Bin Laden attacked us and we attacked Saddam. We ain't heard from Saddam for ten years, but we go attack Saddam. Explain why that is. Give us some answers.

      What Eminem is saying in his video is that although Bin Laden is real, Bush is using the Bin Laden/terrorist threat to distract us from disastrous policies in Iraq and at home. Bush is trying to keep us constantly afraid of the terror boogeyman, even three years after 9/11. Yet Bush isn't actually doing anything about the real Bin Laden and the real threats that face us.

      It's just another way of saying that Bush is politicizing the war on terror, which I think we can all agree is true.

  •  asdf (none)
    politics aside, that animation is really cool
  •  I'm not a Eminem Fan (none)
    But the animation was awsome!
    •  Yeah (none)
      All the characters zipping up their hip hop hoodz  and joining the change army ... awesome!
    •  Really powerful (none)
      The imagery is very compelling.  I wish I liked the music better.  Sounds a bit like the march of the Zombies.  Still, it's very strong and I'm sure I'm missing something in regards to the tune.  Hip Hop is not exactly my cup of tea.  But as long as these kids actually do go out and vote, I have no complaints about this song.
  •  Normally (none)
    I think freeping is kind of a pointless, silly exercise. But in this case, I urge you: freep away!

    The United States has a conservative political culture defending a liberal heritage. The modern Republican Party's problem is that it is neither.

    by Ben P on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:57:25 PM PDT

  •  Great video (none)
    Definitely get this thing on MTV... or make them refuse to play it, which could be even better media-wise.

    They should be talking about this thing on the news shows all week and kids all over the country should be watching and listening to it.  As others have said, Eminem reaches a huge audience that other GOTV efforts can't touch.

  •  I am 25 (4.00)
    Just slightly removed from the MTV TRL age but this is something that flat out plays to young men and probably women. I really like eminem and have bought several of his albums. In a few songs that he put out in 2002 he was sort of political with his verses. He actually did a good job of illustrating the times we were in. Again he has done it here but in a much more decisive way. I am proud to see hip hop return to its counter culture roots. This of course is from an urban white boy that still works out to NWA.
  •  great (none)
    Like the politics and powerful too -go make the request people! Takes just a minute.
  •  THAT'S A GREAT VIDEO (none)
    Oh man, that's an amazing anti-Bush, pro-vote video. When I first heard the song I knew somebody could make a great video out of it. Glad to see that the same guys who made the video for "White America" were brought back to deliver another classic for Em.

    We need this ad on MTV. This is a very, very powerful video that disenchanted youth can relate to. And I've never seen Eminem filled with such righteous anger. He's supposed to be on SNL this weekend, hopefully he sings this song and tells everybody to vote Bush out. This is his moment to rise above petty rifts with Michael Jackson and Christina Aguilera and really make a difference as a citizen and an artist. I'm glad he's stepping up to the plate.

    And even aside from politics -- as far as art and narrative goes, this is a great music video. The best of the year in my opinion.

  •  asdf (4.00)
    A lot of people are going to be reluctant to endorse this video because of Eminem's past statements. Put it aside. This is a powerful weapon and we have one week to get it out there.

    Sure Eminem has made some statements and written some lyrics that are anathema to the left. But you know what? Sen. Byrd used to be in the KKK. I don't care. He fights on our side now. So does Eminem.

    Democrats are here to remind us that life is unfair. Republicans are here to make sure it is.

    by spitonmars on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:13:39 PM PDT

  •  Agreed (4.00)
    The dislike rap more than any other music genre except country.  I can hardly stand any of it.  But I've very grudgingly come to admit that a small handful of rap songs are pretty good, and some of those have come from Eminem.

    Emimem's better songs seem to be satirical and/or simply well-worded indictments of hypocrisy in the mainstream of our country's culture.  This is probably the best example of that yet.

    It still contains of a lot of the self-serving egotism that annoys me about rap in general.  Most of the first main verse is just Eminem hyping himself up.  Pffft to that.  But the rest is pretty good, especially the last main verse.

    A lot of Eminem's other songs are just stupid, and some of them annoy the hell out of me.  I think he's a very disturbed and poorly educated guy but with a lot of native intelligence and, despite his screwed up background, a basic sense of what's right.  And I think it's that better side that shows in this song.

    I don't think the "hip-hop culture" of inner-city kids is very much into Eminem.  I think he's seen there as some kind of sucky sellout or something;  that crowd seems to take pride in less bandwagonny stuff.  (I think most of what they like sucks, too, but the point is it's not Eminem.)  But I don't think that matters, because that culture is already extremely anti-Bush.

    I think that most of Eminem's audience comes from middle-upper class 15-25 year-olds from suburbia and smalltown USA who've joined in on this weird cultural phenomenon of idolizing inner-city rap/gang life.  Most of them are sheep just as much as the Republican rank-and-file, but Eminem's one of their shepherds, and I think this song will have an effect, especially if it gets publicity on MTV.  These are people who are more likely to vote Republican than actual inner-city hip-hop kids... so Eminem's voice is a good one to get out some votes from that crowd.

    •  wrong (none)
      i think Eminem is very much admired even in the ghetto. i've heard folks blasting his music in the hood. good hip hop is good hip hop. that's the beauty of hip hop in my opinion is that it is the most powerful force there is to bring people of all races together, both here in the states and globally (first time i realized hip hop's power was seeing all the tupac posters everywhere in southern africa). we who love hip hop so dearly and have hated to see it exploited by corporate America into mindless materialism and thuggery have to be thrilled with this brilliant video and statement. if Democrats want to keep their 80-90% of the black vote, they better get on the hip hop bandwagon as the civil rights generation and old school NAACP-church approach is no longer going to work...
    •  Go read Juan Cole on this (none)
      Eminem appeals to votes that we can use. There's no real reason to spend time on cultural criticism until the middle of next week.
      •  Absolutely 100% (none)
        correct.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Personally, I have developed a real liking for his music, and I'm 41.  If you don't like him, fine, but between now and next Tuesday about 11 Eastern time, keep it to yourself.

        I never woulda dreamed in a million years I'd see so many motherfuckin people, who feel like me . . . . It's like a fuckin ARMY marchin in back of me

        by jsmdlawyer on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:49:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  you are wrong about Eminem's demographics (4.00)
      Eminem is as popular as a big star gets in the inner city where there is a preference for local, less inhibited groups.  He is in no way seen as another Vanilla Ice.  If he gets dissed for being a sellout and a big star, it is for being just that, a big star, not for being white, many black mainstream stars get dissed the same way.  The inner cities are not quite as homogenous as you think, there are a small but growing number of poor whites and Mexicans living in close proximity to poor blacks.  With the slow decline of racism in America we are witnessing a coming together of the less economically fortunate into one slowly homogenizing group former known as the working class.  This is Eminem's main audience, the garage shops, construction sites and junior colleges of racially mixed America, a slice of America between, very roughly, the 20th and 40th percentile income groups.  
      •  So Right My Man.... (4.00)
        I grew up in a multi-racial, working class town and graduated college in 1988.  One of the things that struck me in the early 90's whenever I was home, was this blending and melding of white, black, and brown teens on the streets, at the jobs, and in the pizza places. Just five years earlier me and my buddy were seen as little bits of oddities cuz we consistently hung out across racial lines. In HS, he was the only white guy on the basketball team, I was one of only 2 or 3 white guys on the track team (sometimes the only one).

        But things changed big time between 87/88 (my last year as a Summer Rec Counselor) and 91/92 and it was really cool to see. A year or so after I first noticed this melding Benneton came out with that United Colors of Benneton add, and there was this big to do. But guess what, in east coast towns where $55K puts your family in the elite, that shit was already going on. The working class and low income folks have been coming together across racial barriers for a long time now. Yeah there's still some suspicion and bigotry going on. But the younger people are, the more comfortable they are across race and ethnic lines.

        Eminem's just indicative of that whole culture shift. When I first heard him talk he sounded a lot like my next door neighbor (who was on one of the navy ships that provided support to the Libyan raid in 198686 btw).  I watched Moshe this morning at 5:30AM and it brought tears to my eyes. That's my hometown man.

        •  Definetly (none)
          I have lived in Toledo oh for almost my whole life and graduated hs in 1997. It is a mirror image of the neighborhood Eminem grew up. Poor to middle-class white, brown, and black. There is some racism but not much among youngsters.And guess what they all listen to, Eminem. Detroit is about an hour away and I have driven down 8 mile road several times and it is a cross section of what many industrial towns and cities are in America. He speaks to these kids because he shares a common background. Of course suburban kids want to be like him so he is popular there too.
  •  This is (4.00)
    One of the greatest protest songs I have ever heard. The video is powerful as well. Voting as revolution. Who'da thunk?
  •  Sure would like a bittorrent link too (none)
    Anyone? Buehler? Anyone?

    President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

    by wunderwood on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:41:25 PM PDT

  •  yeah, eminem's helpful (none)
    Eminem's helpful to us because he is anti-gay and a gay basher, not the stereotypical liberal, this makes it cool for a grunt like the one in the video to vote for Kerry, where before maybe it was CW for that type of person that Kerry was a French weakling or some such nonsense. Read Juan cole's posts about this video, there's some insight. www.juancole.com . Plus he's just a charismatic guy and makes the case in a different and very powerful way for a lot of people. Maybe we should write Bill O'reilly about how much we think this video is bad and evil and destructive so that it gets more airtime. CNN might like this. I think this video and the song is helpful to our cause.

    www.ageoffreedom.blogspot.com

    by freejared on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:44:04 PM PDT

    •  What should we call this technique? (none)
      A reverse freep?  An inverted freep with a two and a half twist?  Or perhaps a psych job freep.  "Hello, CNN, I hate this video.  It is un-Godlike and represents everything bad about the media today."  Enough comments like that and CNN will run it twice an hour.  I'm sure Daryn Kagan would love that.  Good idea; let's try it.

      I never woulda dreamed in a million years I'd see so many motherfuckin people, who feel like me . . . . It's like a fuckin ARMY marchin in back of me

      by jsmdlawyer on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:53:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I put my vote in for this at MTV (none)
    and this was my comment:

    Very powerful message to the young that voting DOES affect your life, your here and your now. I think this is very important for our times. It does more to reach our generation than anything else I have seen. Please help our generation by showing this as often as you can!

    Fellow bloggers...if we can't get this shown on MTV, NOBODY can!! Lets get freeping people!!!

  •  "supadubya" even better (none)
    In case this hasn't been posted recently, his video Supadubya is great too - http://www.supadubya.com/
    •  Yes, that is a good video too (none)
      I just think that it's different than the Eminem video. They are both good, but I thiink Eminem's is a little more mainstream anti-bush thinking and probably a more viable one because he didn't go quite as far out as the other one did. I agree with the other one, but when you reveal too much of what this administration is doing behind the scenes, that's when people look at you like you're wearing the tinfoil hat.
  •  too little, too late (none)
    too bad it's not a better song.  Too dirgy to catch attention in a big way.  It'll get noticed some just because it's Eminem, but it's got none of the sass and bounce of an Eminem hit.  It's overly serious and kinda scary over all.  Maybe that's what he was aiming for, but because of that I don't think it'll get mass airplay.

    Besides, by the time anyone buys and absorbs the record, it'll be "too late until '08".

    Anybody know how long this thing has been done and whether anything held up its release?

    I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore!

    by MarkinNC on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:55:12 PM PDT

    •  I think it just came out... (none)
      I believe (from what I read about this earlier, following links from someone who posted the lyrics here) it's supposed to be hitting this week. Someone had the song up for download but it got pulled before I could get it...I'm glad now, cause the song's not as good as the video.
      •  Don't believe the hype (none)
        The song is just as good as the video.  With America's short attention span I think the timing is just right.  It is a GOTV video as well as being anti-Bush.  It will certainly motivate at least tens of thousands of people to vote.

        And, better yet, if this election goes into extra innings this can become the theme song for the resistance!

    •  I have to disagree (none)
      I think this song embodies all the anger and dissapointment sitting simmering in our youth and I think the song speaks directly too all of their apprehension and fears.  I think he is expressing how he and everyone else feels and saying "you know what? time to quit fuckin around. Let's get out and do this, before we have to get militant.  There is a solution."

      This song to me is powerful and motivating, but I am no expert on rap.

    •  Not Dirgy... (none)
      My husband made the same kind of remarks--that musically it was 'uninteresting and repetitive.' (But I find the music perfect. Even without the words, the music speaks. It says "GO, GO, GO, GO"

      It is "driving," if that makes sense...

      Anything flashier would have drowned out the message, seemed to inauthentic. If it had too much of a hook, it would just seem like another song, instead of communique.

  •  he is a powerful artist (none)
    the video is pretty amazing, and the rap is, as is always the case with eminem, unreal.  his sense of timing and cadence and turn of phrase, and how to speak and sing words into life, make eminem a real brilliant man.

    as for the hyped homophobia/mysogyny, the minute on the grammy show when elton john sings -- str8-faced -- the dido sample ("thank you" from her first album "no angel") from eminem's song "stan," the whole farce was obvious, and -- as elton john  said earlier that week -- eminem's sense of humor and capacity to hype the media was apparent.

    the scene from "8 mile" was really impressive.

    now, to get mtv to play this video!!!

    <Let those I love try to forgive // what I have made (ezra loomis pound)>

    by dadanation on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 07:59:04 PM PDT

  •  It's a shame (1.72)
    that all of those gay Americans who spent 2000 protesting Eminem for a couple of song lyrics, didn't put as much energy into defeating Bush.  Indeed, the majority of gay Americans (or at least pretty close to it) probably voted for Bush.
    •  Not the majority (none)
      Bush got a million gay votes, but that is not the majority of gay voters. I guarantee that very few gays here in L.A., N.Y. and in S.F. were voting for Bush last time around. Even less are gonna vote for him this time, that's for sure.
      •  I think he's including (none)
        closeted gays. Only 4 million voters admitted to being gay. I imagine there were quite a few more gay voters.

        Ben P

        The United States has a conservative political culture defending a liberal heritage. The modern Republican Party's problem is that it is neither.

        by Ben P on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:02:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  We Can't Be Stopped (4.00)
    Eminem calls down the thunder, apocolyptic music marching relentlessly. I almost feel pity for the foes of the American people. It's never fun to be on the wrong side of history, but this song has no pity, kind of reminds me of terrible swift swords. I think some dumbass opened the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored and an American hero named Marshall Mathers just called out the hounds, the hordes - ladies and gentlemen the rout is on.
  •  The tail end of the quicktime video was garbled (none)
    it didn't come through. and that link is now gone on movies10.archive.org

    any suggestions? I was hoping to download the clip, not stream it.

    President Kerry President Kerry President Kerry

    by wunderwood on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:43:52 PM PDT

  •  SWEET! (4.00)
    My first recommended diary!  

    Thank's y'all!  You like me, you really like me!

    [/Sally Field]

    "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

    by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:53:26 PM PDT

  •  Like Eminem or not... (none)
    he can appeal to the younger generation much better than Kerry could ever dream of. Eminem cuts through the polical rhetoric and tells people like it is: these are dire circumstances. How bad do things have to be for normally a-political hip hop artists to be so involved?

    Mikhail Khaimov San Francisco, CA

    by Tsarrio on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 08:59:40 PM PDT

  •  This is an ass kicking, beautifully produced, (none)
    goosebump inducing video and I don't even like rap.

    We must get this maximum exposure. I wish he had released it about 3-4 weeks ago.

  •  An interesting undercurrent (none)
    in much of the protest music being produced by the newer generations ...

    the underlying RAGE and despair.

    There is an underlying feeling in this video, and in the A Perfect Circle cover of "Imagine", and even "The Revolution Starts Now" by Steve Earle (young in spirit, if not age) that this is the last chance.

    None of that hippy peace and love stuff here. There is an awareness of how FUCKED things are, and how much we're going to have to change as a people to fix things.

    It actually makes me hopeful that people are ready to stay engaged.

    "Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies." - Friedrich Nietzsche.

    by Madman in the marketplace on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 09:39:50 PM PDT

    •  I felt the rage undercurrent, too (4.00)
      But, speaking as one of the (barely) under 30 crowd, Eminem is just tapping a feeling that is already there.

      I believe that hope is a powerful motivator for people in my age range.  However, there is anger, and the feeling that we've been screwed.  Screwed by the generation that was supposed to be about peace and love.  Screwed beyond the point that we can really fix things, at least on a planet-wide scale.  Most of my peers (who haven't turned to right-wing Christianity; fuck it, let God decide) have a real streak of cynicism.

      Hope is great, but in a reality based frame of mind, things don't look so good for us, for our kids, or for their kids.  The environmental situation alone drives this home, not to mention war, disease, poverty, the list goes on.  There's also a real feeling of disconnect between "us" and whoever gets to make the decisions that destroy our world and our society.    

      You can see this in the video, in the family that is broken up and destroyed.  Everyone I know can relate to that storyline in one way or another, if not through military service, then reduced or non-existent job prospects, elderly relatives that can't get decent health care, parents who can't retire even though they've saved all their lives, drowning in credit card debt, etc.  

      Here's where the cynicism kicks in.  I mean, heck, if the "social revolution" of the 60s/70s didn't really change things, what will?  Where are all those people who wanted to change the world?  What happened to them?  Why is everything headed down the toilet just when these revolutionaries are at the age where they should be running things?  Why should we speak out now when it never really made any difference, and here we are in another pointless "war", our civil liberties more broken down, and in even more debt (personal and national) than ever?  This cynicism can lead to apathy, powerlessness and resentment.  

      Before anyone thinks that I'm attacking here, let me make it clear that I'm not shouting.  I'm calmly (and somewhat sadly) typing in a group of unfortunately negative feelings and attitudes that I've observed and seen echoed over and over.  

      Actually, the thing that I really love about the Mosh video is that, even though the people are put in worse and worse situations, they are able to take action, and that the action they take is a positive one.  It moves from a place of anger to a place of hope, and leaves us motivated to act.

      There can be no better message than that.

      •  what happened to them? (4.00)
        Here's where the cynicism kicks in.  I mean, heck, if the "social revolution" of the 60s/70s didn't really change things, what will?  Where are all those people who wanted to change the world?  What happened to them?

        One of them is running for president this year.

        I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore!

        by MarkinNC on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 06:17:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  very well put (4.00)
        and better than I did.

        I didn't mean to imply that the artists create the feelings. They are always a conduit for a wider, deeper one.

        I'm about a decade older than you. I grew up in the wake of that hippie generation, and watched the wide swath of selfish destruction they're creating.

        I'm actually impressed by how younger citizens have, despite their well-earned cynicism, have for many years worked locally on the causes they believe in. I see the hope you mentioned in the fact that people in their 20's and lower 30's volunteer in higher numbers than previous generations. I guess we won't know for sure until next Tuesday, but there are so many signs of a willingness to give the ballot box a chance. When I voted in my first Presidential election (1984), the polls were pretty empty of unwrinkled faces at my polling place near my University.

        As for the thought that you WANTED to shout: I don't blame you, you have every right to do so. Demand that the so-called Greatest Generation and their selfish spawn start thinking 7 generations ahead, and that folks my age quit sniping from the sidelines. You and your children are going to be paying for it.

        "Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies." - Friedrich Nietzsche.

        by Madman in the marketplace on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 06:22:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Whoops! and Thank You (4.00)
          I should have started my post with the word "and" rather than "but", because I meant to agree with you and expand the topic.  Sorry 'bout that!  What you said struck a chord with me, and I just felt the need to express my thoughts.  

          I appreciate your response and awareness that the younger crowd is out there trying to change things.  So many times I run into the stereotype that 20-somethings are apathetic, disaffected and detatched.  Some of them are, but many are not.  Working on a local level is a way to see actual change on a community level, and I think that is why it is so appealing.  

          More importantly, this "non-participant" stereotype can so easly become a self-fulfilling prophesy.  I know many other people who are frustrated by it.  Frankly, it is kind of depressing to try your best to move things forward, only to be constantly hit with a barage of "how unusual to see a young person here" (which immediately makes one feel out of place) by the people on you own side!  

          Opposing this stereotype and allowing activism and participation to be accepted norms is very important indeed.  I salute you.  

      •  Yes. This is how we feel (none)
        This video spoke so strongly to how I feel, how so many people my age feel, it brought me to tears.

        For the most part America seems to do just fine without we "under-30's" having to get off our asses to do anything. So usually we don't. But we HAVE noticed that things are seriously getting fucked up lately and are PISSED. So pissed that we are actually going to take the trouble to Get Involved.

        The "indifferent youth" meme is dead, at least for this election. We love our country as much as everyone else and we will be doing our part on 11/2 to help save it.

        Trust me, this video is powerful, powerful stuff. We have to do our best to get it played on MTV, get it on the media.

  •  Damn (4.00)
    That's huge.

    A few years ago I would have said that the whole eminem crowd were the people that we voters had to worry about - the cynical disaffected ironic believing-in-nothing folks that don't care enough what's happening in the world and the nation to rise up and help us do something.

    (I realize that some intellectuals also love eminem, but they're not who I'm talking about.)

    This is the ultimate targeted political ad, and eminem's probably the only guy that could reach them - and that video is really inspiring.  It's really HARD to make an artistic political statement because it almost always instead comes out as a political statement that is designed to reach a segment of the population (god, you remember those commercials the dem candidates all did for the youth vote debate?)  But here's one that is of that population, and it's genuine, and it's probably the best overtly political song in many years.

    Someone without Eminem's star power makes a song/video like that and they get investigated and their message gets buried.  I think this has a huge effect.

    •  I disagree (4.00)
      These are not people who believe in nothing.  Cynical, yes.  Ironic, well, if gallows humor is all you've got, may as well take a laugh where you can get it.  Disaffected, I'd say disenfranchised with respect to life.  "Don't care enough"?  Them's fightin' words.

      I believe that the very reason so many people have taken refuge in cynicism, irony and detatchment is that they do care.  They care an awful lot.  Watching the world around them fall apart is painful, so they escape.  They tell themselves that they don't care, because they don't believe that things can change.

      I'm sorry if I sound angry, but I take offense at the notion that that the typical Eminem listener is an ignorant, self-absorbed fool.  Why do you think people listen to Eminem?  It's cathartic.  It's an outlet in a society that doesn't listen to them, and they feel they have no control over.    

      I do agree that it is very difficult to make a political artistic statement that people will listen to and relate to.  I also agree that one of the reasons that Mosh works is that it is genuine.  I can only hope that this will have an effect, but the effect I see isn't that of adoring fans blindly following their artist of choice; it's finding the will to believe that you can make a difference and the strength to try to make that happen.

  •  WOW! (none)
    ... what a powerful video... I am spechless right now.  Just trying to take it in.

    Well done Eminem!

  •  This song/video should've been out months ago (none)
    Too bad we're just seeing this now, with the election a week away.  This could've and should've been the anthem of the summer.
  •  Don't forget Direct Effect.... (none)
    ...It's MTV's Rap/Hip-Hop viewer request show:

    http://www.mtv.com/onair/dfx/vote.jhtml

    Select "Other," type in "Mosh" and "Eminem," lather, rinse, repeat.

    I help develop national security policy and counter-terror strategy... which is why I'm voting for John Kerry on November 2, 2004.

    by mustang dvs on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 10:26:56 PM PDT

  •  Another mirror for download (Quicktime) here... (none)
    It's 46.6 MB.  Eminem - Mosh.
  •  FREE THIS TOO: A PERFECT CIRCLE'S IMAGINE VIDEO (none)
    I think you all should freep this one too...

    The music video for the remake of John

    Lennon's
    "Imagine" by A Perfect Circle.

    In my opinion it is AMAZING.  Though this song was written more than thirty years ago and was played in an era protesting a different war, the message of "Imagine" still gets praise from another generation of music listeners.  

    However, according to a Perfect Circle band member, "this is footage that has been available on network TV and yet I guarantee you it won't get played".  So let's help him out shall we?

    Watch the video on Launch.yahoo.com and then remember to FREEP it there.  Get this video on the Yahoo top 100 list

    Or go directly to A Perfect circle's main site then go to the music section

    •  already linked up top... (none)
      I posted it directly from their website, along with the link to Counting Bodies (which IMHO is an even better video) check it out it's way up top....like 8 or so from the original diary
  •  it's up... (none)
    There's a stream at Launch.

    Be sure to vote it up! Click on the righthand star.

  •  Also! (none)
    You can d/l the mp3 here.

    And MTV's front page features this story:

    Michael Moore, the "Fahrenheit 9/11" filmmaker who tried his hand at directing music videos with Rage Against the Machine, would certainly approve of Eminem's new clip, "Mosh," which has just hit the Internet.

    A scathing indictment of President Bush and the war in Iraq [...], the animated video begins with the jarring image of a commercial airliner flying over a school and then exploding offscreen. The point of view then zooms into the school, where Eminem is reading a children's book to a class in a scene reminiscent of the minutes following the 9-11 attacks, when Bush was at a Florida elementary school reading to second graders. Eminem is holding his book upside down.

    (...)

    "Mosh" portrays Eminem as a powerful rebellious figure who just by using his voice and music has the ability to mobilize people who are fed up with the president. With his following uniformly dressed in dark hoodies, the group looks to be storming toward the White House but actually end up signing up to vote. At the same time in the song, Em talks about the people assembling to disarm what he calls the real weapon of mass destruction: George W. Bush.

    A pro-vote message is tagged on at the end of the clip, directed by Ian Inaba of the Guerrilla News Network, which is hosting the video at GNN.tv. Eminem's Encore is due November 16.

    With a little more promotion, this could be HUGE.

  •  Eminem's defense of the homophobic lyrics (4.00)
    Some people probably hate him for his anti-gay messages..sO I wanted to add this:
    "Eminem's defense of the homophobic lyrics on his albums has always been that he's not speaking as himself, he's speaking as a character, and he's representing homophobia in America," Tennant explained.

    I and others might still underestimate the impact of those lyrics, but nevertheless it's not going to keep me from listening to his music.

    •  A character? (3.75)
      Musicians can sing as a character?

      Wait, you mean that Bruce Springstein doesn't really have a wife and kids down in Baltimore, Jack?

      That Kenny Rogers never really met a terminally ill gambler on a train bound for nowhere?

      That Johnny Cash never shot a man just to watch him die?

      Woah... you have just blown my mind!

      ;)

      If our goal is not to bring terrorism to a "nuisance", then why does the color-coded terror alert have those bottom two levels?

      by ThatsNotFunny on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:46:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bingo... (4.00)
      I remember the whole brouhaha over G-N-R and the "One in a million" song off the lies EP....  People honed in on the presence of certain epitaths while completely missing the fact that One in Million was a song about self-loathing, not some hit piece against gays or blacks.

      Above, someone also mentioned both Springsteen and Cash -- rather than a "wife and kids in....", I'd direct you to Nebraska...  Do you really believe Springsteen has some sort of jones for serial killers?

      Or listen to Delia's Gone (among countless others)... do you think the Man in Black is advocating killing your wife?

      I don't want to paint everyone with a broad brush - but I think most folks here can appreciate the distinctions between an artist and his or her art, but something "accessible" to most of us -- Springsteen or Johnny Cash -- makes it an easy task.   Someone like Eminem, where most of us (and I include myself in that group -- PE's Fear of a Black Planet, more than a decade ago, was the last rap album I purchased) have a tougher time with the medium, doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt.

      One can appreciate and enjoy the movie American Beauty without seeing it as a green light to start cruising the local high school for some action 10-15-20 years after the graduation.

  •  We should all buy Eminem's album (none)
    Just to support what hes trying to do. Or at least buy the single.

    Rageaholics are unfit for command. Rage as an addiction

    by Lucian on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 02:58:24 AM PDT

  •  Wow, I hate eminem (none)
    And I still watched the whole way through this.

    I could almost get into this kind of music as a result.

  •  Fascism against fascism (none)
    I've heard a number of people comment on the everlasting appeal of fascism and militarism to rock musicians. Much as they criticize them in their lyrics, they draw on them for their emotion. U2's "War" is one of my favorite albums, but the songs from that album are calls to arms. Half of the human psyche decries the "bodies strewn across the dead-end streets" while the other half rallies to the martial beat. Even when I was in high school, I was aware of that conflict, and wasn't entirely convinced by the shout "This is not a rebel song!" that introduces the live version of "Sunday, Bloody Sunday".

    In Eminem's video, a bunch of people obliterate their individuality by all pulling on the same black, hooded sweatshirt, marching in lockstep, and storming the government building. Oh, and they vote. I know that it takes discipline to unify people who have suffered individually and separately, but I think there's something questionable about drawing on militaristic models of uniformity in order to combat militarism. Yes, we absolutely need to stand up against intimidation to protect people's right to vote. But that doesn't mean we have to turn into an army of robotic clones.

    I couldn't help but notice that the army is made almost entirely of men. I could only glimpse one female figure in the rank and file. Geez, that's one heck of an inclusive video.

    On another subject, there was discussion upthread about the misogyny and homophobia in Eminem's songs being expressions of a character rather than his own true feelings. It's true that there's an age-old tension between the desire to avoid fostering prejudice and the artistic freedom to give voice to characters of questionable viewpoints. But there are artists who uphold that artistic freedom while clearly attacking prejudice, whether inside or outside of their works themselves. Unfortunately, there are also artists who silently profit from having two diametrically opposed audiences, with one audience believing that the artist is attacking prejudice and the other audience viscerally enjoying the prejudice that is being expressed. Eminem always struck me as an example of that latter kind of artist.

    Looking for Kerry fun south or west of Boston?

    by AlanF on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:26:53 AM PDT

    •  They take off the sweatshirts (4.00)
      when they go into vote, and there are women, men, old, young, ties, fatigues, dresses sweats, everything.

      "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

      by DrFrankLives on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 09:34:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not to get all symbolic but.. (none)
      I think the black hoodies aren't signifying that everyone should be the same but rather that they should all unite.  Many people show their belief in a cause by wearing something: Religious people have various symbols, Democratics wear pins or shirts, Red Sox wear the same cap.  This doesn't mean that they are clones.
  •  all i gotta say is WOW (4.00)
    I have always liked Eminem.. i'll never forget the first time that I heard one of his songs.  He's a lyrical genius, in my opinion.  His songs so effectively channel the obvious angst and anger that he feels.  He's one of the rare, truly genuine musical artists of our time.

    This video really hit home with me.  Thoughout I could just feel the anger just welling up in me and ready to burst.  The animators for this video should be commended, talk about using exactly the right images.. I mean by the end i was so emotional.. it's hard to describe.  Just a mixture of pure anger and sadness.  Tears were literally welling up in me.  How many music videos can you say that about??

    "Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society" -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

    by wintersnowman on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 07:28:57 AM PDT

  •  Great video! (none)
    The lyrics and the video are incredibly powerful.  

    I'm now the coolest Mom on the street because I have an Eminem video before BET.  

  •  Thanks (none)
    Great video. Went to MTV.com and recommended it...but they are pussies and probably won't play it.
    *sigh*
    The video is so dark. How scary it must be to be an american teen.
  •  Now (none)
    Is MTV refusing to play the video?  Or is this diary all about having us watch the video.

    I am in a fighting mode here, and don't get me going with diary titles like this.

    The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. -Plato

    by FreeAtLast on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 08:54:30 AM PDT

  •  When was this release?? Has SCLM noticed?? (none)
    with all the silly stuff they pay attention too, an actor at the Boston Convention, Moore getting booed in McCain's speech, Cameron Diaz crying on Oprah, ... to even more earnest efforts such that of P Diddy, H Stern, Rob Reiner....

    This is Big... Big enough to focus alot of attention.

    Jon Stewart's crew, I know you're reading this

  •  Anyone seen (none)
    Anyone seen Chronic Future: Time and Time Again? Check it out at music.yahoo.com. Some of the same characters and same scenes that are in Chronic Future's video are in Eminem's video. Probably done by the same ppl.
  •  Hey DrFrankLives (none)
    Thanks for the links. I posted the MTV request links in the comments of Kos' entry, and then he bumped those up to the front page. But I got them from you originally! Thanks and many kudos to you!
  •  for those of us not on the East coast/or w/MTV (none)
    did TRL play it?  the site says it's on at 5pm EST.. how was it introduced?

    America would have been better off with four years of Ralph Wiggum

    by LeftCoaster on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 02:41:02 PM PDT

  •  Just played on TRL in NY (none)
    in 3d place or thereabouts - world premiere.

    Intense on TV.

    Intense.

  •  That Video KICKS ASS!! (none)
    WAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
  •  MTV2 (none)
    They played it on MTV2 just now...impressive.  I've always liked Eminem, but this is a young persons' October surprise...wow...

    TexasDemocrat http://www.bushcountdown.com

    by TexasDemocrat on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 08:03:11 PM PDT

  •  All the links are dead... (none)
    All the links at the top of this story are dead. Wow!
  •  This story is f'ng Monsterous. (none)
    Mosh debued at #6 on the MTV rap countdown.

    This is so damn huge. As powerful as all but the most expensive 527 ads.

    Since the main hosts are hammered, you can see it at Launch or ifilm

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