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The following site is collecting all available info on information regarding the theft of the election, including links back to source sites.  They are calling for help, so you might want to cruise by:

Have more data? Add a link in the comments. New links and updates will be added at the bottom of the post. Note, these are the kind of URLs that mysteriously wind up scrubbed Would some tech savvy person be kind enough to archive them, quickly?

 

Folks, this is THE news story right now: the numbers don't add up, the voting machines were rigged, and they're trying to steal the presidency again. This story isn't in Big Media and word is, for whatever reason, the inside-the-beltway crowd won't touch it. So push it hard in the blogs, talk to your neighbors, email it to your grandma, and send it to your local media.

Kerry's concession speech carries NO legal weight. Results aren't final until they are certified by the state election boards. Once Bush is coronated again, we're out of luck. We have a VERY SMALL WINDOW to make sure the votes count. And, no one else is doing it: it is up to us. Roll up your sleeves, and go forth to save American democracy.

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Originally posted to Calee4nia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 09:43 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  No Kos Recommended Diary (4.00)
    today even addressing this subject.  Given it is obvious so many of us are concerned that a theft occurred, what can possibly be the harm in having a place to communicate updates?

    I'm baffled.

    Please RECOMMEND this diary!

    Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

    by Einsteinia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 09:45:03 AM PST

    •  More links (none)

      Here's a link to Amy Goodman & Democracy Now's interview with Bev Harris of Black Box Voting.org: The E-Vote Factor: Kerry Conceded But Did He Really Lose?: Bev Harris - "Well, you know, the concern I have is, we have got to go after this from all fronts. I haven't seen any reference to it in the media. I have also been told from sources that I have inside the media that are fairly high up that particularly in TV, there's been -- there is now a lockdown on this story." Methinks we can't blame this "lockdown" entirely on the Bush Administration.


      Here's a link to a first hand account written by a lawyer who was "there" in Ohio: Ohio Whitewash: "Touch screen voting machines in Youngstown OH were registering "George W. Bush" when people pressed "John F. Kerry" ALL DAY LONG. This was reported immediately after the polls opened, and reported over and over again throughout the day, and yet the bogus machines were inexplicably kept in use THROUGHOUT THE DAY." Thanks to Michael Hawkins at Spontaneous Arising for providing the link.


      Here's a link to Find Law News; a list of "lawsuits, investigations, and proceedings regarding ballot issues arising in so-called battleground states."


      Steal Your Election: A website "documenting what could be the highest crime in the history of our country."


      More great links can be found at The Randi Rhodes Message Board.  Hats off to Ms. Rhodes, the best that Air America has to offer (I love Al, too...but Randi captivated me from day one...as I noted in my review of the first broadcast).

      •  WHY DID KERRY CONCEDE!!?? (none)
        Please, you can call me stupid, but PLEASE, PLEASE explain to me why Kerry conceded the election.  It just makes not sense. It is so obvious that Ohiowas rigged.

        Please someone tell me why Kerry did what he did.

        •  My theory (none)
          Not enough proof of election fraud.  Bush's popular vote seemed too out of reach.  If Kerry stuck it out...he would have been attacked 24 hours a day....plus it's clear from the words of Bill Clinton and others that they didn't want it to go on anymore.

          But a concession isn't legally binding.  And I doubt that all the lawyers on retainer have been sent back home.

          I don't think that there's any chance Kerry can still win.  But I think we might be able to prove he should've.

    •  Probably Nothing But... (none)
      The night before the election I was reading Open Thread #71 and several people saw voting numbers on the Ohio Secretary of State Website.

      This was before the election. Here is a summary of what they had:

      Ohio results already being posted?!
      WHAT?!?!

      however the votes look weird, for example...

      U.S. Senate  
      Voinovich  Republican  558,379  35.81%  
      Fingerhut  Democratic  542,851  34.81%  
      Meyers   Write In   458,232  29.38%  
      Total Votes 1,559,462    

      I doubt a write in would have that many votes...
      not just that
      not just that... look at the county break-downs..

      those numbers look odd to me as well...
      for example, in Adams county Kerry and Bush each have exactly 6000 votes.

      Exactly They are testing. Just like the Rocky Mountain News were earlier in CO.

      URL vanished
      creepy.

      Not There?
      anyone screenshot that?  when i clicked it was down.

      Open Thread #71
      http://openthread.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/1/23501/7432

       

  •  No Kos Recommended Diary (none)
    today even addressing this subject.  Given it is obvious so many of us are concerned that a theft occurred, what can possibly be the harm in having a place to communicate updates?

    I'm baffled.

    Please RECOMMEND this diary!

    Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

    by Einsteinia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 09:45:51 AM PST

    •  P.S. Bev Harris of Blackboxvoting.org claims (none)
      in a posting I found on the DemocracticUnderground today that she's been tipped off that the media aren't going to touch this issue--making forums such as this one all the more important.

      She also have a creative list of things we can all do today to ensure a citizen-drive audit occurs.

      http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2636130

      Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

      by Einsteinia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 10:51:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bev Harris says: Help!!! (none)
        Bev Harris: Help!!!! (none / 0)

        Media is being hushed on election issues. We need to head toward bloggers and online publications.

        Encourage everyone you know or can find to host votergate.tv and keep vote fraud issues alive.

        Don't let this die.

        Spread it in chats and forums and especially bloggers!

        There are about 700 addy's here, divided into groups of 100. Just copy and paste.

        Below these are INTERNATIONAL NEWSPAPERS EMAIL ADDYS go help BEV HARRIS PLEASE!!!

        2020@abc.com, thisweek@abc.com, nightline@abcnews.com, factorcorrections@airamericaradio.com, mike@mikemalloy.com, rrhodes@airamericaradio.com, alan@alan.com, info@alternativeradio.org, info@alternet.org, talk2us@americasblackforum.com, jmccoy@atpco.com, tnaegele@atpco.com,  rroeper@suntimes.com, feder@suntimes.com

        More
        http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/index.php?showtopic=1609&st=0&p=13129&#entry13129

        •  Thanks for the list. I just wrote them: (none)
          Please investigate voter fraud in the 2004 presidential election.  If you let us live this lie, we may become schizophrenic.  We are already bi-polar.
        •  plagiarize this (4.00)
          Here's something I've been dropping whenever, wherever, someone (ironically it's usually been some otherwise well meaning person on the left) tries to stop this discussion by mocking it as the stuff of "conspiracy theory" or "tin foil hat" material:

          When private citizens are allowed control over the machines that count our elections, and are not only openly partisan but partisan activists as well, something is seriously wrong with our system. When these same people can go to court to protect and are granted their sole proprietary rights to the software codes that count our votes for the purpose of preventing outside audit, something is seriously wrong with our judiciary. When these same people receive 1/1000th the press attention that would be given if George Soros or Michael Moore were to own those same companies (no, make that 1/1,000,000th), something is seriously wrong with our press.

          When anyone should worry about looking like a conspiracy theorist by pointing out the inherent potentials for conflict of interest by allowing openly partisan activists to count our votes in private (and then put the burden of proof on us to prove vote tampering), something is seriously wrong with our society.

          This says nothing about fraud or stolen elections. It simply points out the insanity of allowing partisan activists to secretly tally our elections.

          The polls don't tell us how a candidate is doing, they tell us how the media is doing.

          by Thumb on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 03:08:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sheldon Drobny wants to fund the investigation ! (none)
          Let's help him!

          Sheldon Drobny is CPA and Venture Capitalist and co-founder of Air America Radio; email at sdrobny@paradigmventure.com

          http://www.opednews.com/drobny_110904_election_investigation.htm

      •  Bev Harris is pushing bad methodology (2.50)
        One of the things she wants people to do is this:
        2. CRUNCH THE NUMBERS: Discrepancies please, and hurry. E-mail them to tips@blackboxvoting.org . Pass the word. Need source documents, too. ASAP. Follow your nose, or join the Black Box Scavenger Hunt: Pick a county. Look at small counties, as we are seeing many discrepancies in those. Look in any state. Get the official number of registered voters, Dem and Republican. Get the number of votes cast on Nov. 2, Republican and Dem. Make a grid like this, filling in the right numbers:

        # reg. voters % # votes cast %
        Rep 100 33% 150 50%
        Dem 200 67% 150 50%
        Totl 300 100% 300 100%

        We can find out a lot from this procedure, very hard data, that will make a real difference. As soon as you have finished a county, e-mail it to us. Do as many counties as you can.

        Unfortunately, although these numbers can be crunched, they have NO VALIDITY for deterimining whether there are errors in the vote count, they merely LOOK ALARMING in many cases.

        To have some idea of what the numbers should look like for this election, you would need to do a much more thorough analysis, checking to see what they looked like in previous elections, what the demographics of the county look like, and how those demographics have voted both this year and in past elections.

        People often cross party lines when voting. This tends to be a regional phenomina, and it tends to vary by year. This cannot be ignored, but that it what her methodology does.

        She does herself and her cause no favors by pushing this crap.

        Apparently, my mission today is to keep pointing out her bad methodology on dKos while my unit tests churn away.

        76% of dKos readers think I'm a secret wing-nut operative!

        by Gustavo on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 03:00:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No Paper Trails Does Lead to Catch-22 (none)
          We're in a real catch-22, because unlike the punchcards focused scandal last time, this time we're left to read the  tea leaves, i.e., all the those remaining indices standing in for evidence--from exit polls to data collected at the precincts to support our suspicions.

          What to do: With no paper trails, we're left in the untenable position of bearing the burden of proof by performing our own citizen driven audit.

          Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

          by Einsteinia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 03:42:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Dear Gustavo: (none)
          The bad methodology belongs to our electoral system, which has no consistency, no verifiability and doesn't meet the basic minimum standards for our confidence.

          Suppose Cuba had an electoral system where voting machines and vote-counting machines with no trails were provided by a close friend of Fidel Castro who refused to allow open scrutiny of his software. Suppose the elections were run by local partisan officials and some of those vote counts were shut off to members of opposing parties, the media and the citizenry under the pretext of national security. Suppose the results of said elections were wildly variant from contemporaneous exit polls.

          How would the media or you react to the above scenario? I hope it would be with healthy skepticism.

          Now, why should any rational, thinking human being view the US election any differently?

          (That goes for you too, kos and powers-that-be of dkos.)

          If the 2004 Vote Count had happened in any other country, we'd all be sneering about their "democracy"...

          by bushdemocrat on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 06:12:16 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  But her analysis doesn't address any of that! (3.25)
            Yes, there are problems with the election results, and I have some questions about the exit polls (how do they include early voters, did they undercount Republicans, did they overcount Dems, are they accurate and the vote is not?)

            I'm not arguing any of that.

            What I am arguing is that Bev Harris's methodology is flawed -- it generates data that immediately appear to be suspicious, but which are readily explained away.

            If I were a tin-foil hat person, I would suspect that her methodology is deliberately flawed. There aren't many counties in Florida, so there is no reason the work cannot be done by one person fairly quickly. She might be urging people to calculate a few numbers to generate a bit of data that looks alarming, all in order to increase her support and donations. Or that she's secretly a Republican operative working to discredit those trying to discredit the current voting system.

            But I'm not a tin-foil hat person. I just want to beat down arguments based on flawed methodology, so the more credible arguments can flourish.

            Sadly, the more credible arguments are not as immediately alarming as those in the Bev Harris piece, and they are beginning to get lost in the clutter of a few grossly flawed articles making wild claims.

            I fear that when the wild claims gain a foothold in the media, they will be crushed (and correctly so), and that the more reasonable voter rights issues (accountability, transparency, access to the polls) will be lumped in with them and ignored.

            76% of dKos readers think I'm a secret wing-nut operative!

            by Gustavo on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 06:35:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  asdf (none)
              Speaking of exit polls and early voters....when the reports were coming in that early voters were going for Kerry, I was worrying that the exit polls would then favor Bush and the networks would call it for B without factoring in the early vote.

              So the fact that the exit polls were STILL favoring Kerry seems to mean....oh for crying out loud, we've got to see the software!

        •  First pass analysis (none)
          Further analysis might be needed, but sometimes there isn't sufficient data for a conclusive answer. Partial information could help lead to further analysis.
  •  Sorry! I didn't mean to post twice-- (none)
    I haven't had my morning coffee yet. . . .

    Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

    by Einsteinia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 09:46:45 AM PST

  •  Recommended (none)
    Good site.  Nice work.
  •  Agree (none)
    Recommended!!!!
  •  Recommended! (none)
    Keep up the good work!

    ----------------------------

    "Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of awesome mystical power. We know this because they manage to be invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them."

    - Steve Eley

    Join the club! http://www.apathycore.com

  •  Nice (none)
    but the site link http://www.bopnews.com/archives/002328.html#2328 needs to be made a little more clear. There is a little too much orange on this site sometimes.
    •  Well... (none)
      You can't please everyone.  When I put an full URL in my post, someone complains.  When I embed the URL, someone complains.  :-)

      In any event, thanks for giving folks a choice.  

      We hold these truths to be self evident... All men are created equal...

      by Calee4nia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 10:59:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well (none)
    You and I probably don't need anyone to tell us that Kerry actually won both FL and OH. The saddening thing is that liberals continue to think Bush won. It's amazing to the point of frustration!!! And these are people that I want to spend my time fighting with? People who don't even know they have been robbed!!! By the way, VERY FEW people are going to respond to your post because most FOOLISHLY believe that Bush won. I am disappointed with the left. I used to think we were intelligent. Shame on us.

    Man is the measure of all things. Of things that are that they are; of things that are not, that they are not. - Protagoras (ca. 380 BC)

    by ManIstheMeasure on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 11:14:14 AM PST

    •  The hell of it is, the Reps now think they won, (none)
      and to take it back would make them even more cantankerous than Simpson was to Bill Maher, and  Dobson was to George Stephanopoulous.  But, we must!  Not to do so will make us crazy.  We have suppressed our outrage long enough!
  •  added to my "favorites" (none)
    I've been emailing friends and family each individual article - it's nice to refer them to one spot on the web.  This is great - thanks.
  •  more evidence of fraud (4.00)
    from common dreams

    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm

    When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.

    "It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me.

    And evidence is accumulating that the national effort happened on November 2, 2004.

    The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available at http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm, and noticed something startling.

    While the heavily scrutinized touch-screen voting machines seemed to produce results in which the registered Democrat/Republican ratios matched the Kerry/Bush vote, and so did the optically-scanned paper ballots in the larger counties, in Florida's smaller counties the results from the optically scanned paper ballots - fed into a central tabulator PC and thus vulnerable to hacking - seem to have been reversed.

    In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

    In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush.

    The pattern repeats over and over again - but only in the smaller counties where, it was probably assumed, the small voter numbers wouldn't be much noticed. Franklin County, 77.3% registered Democrats, went 58.5% for Bush. Holmes County, 72.7% registered Democrats, went 77.25% for Bush.

    Yet in the larger counties, where such anomalies would be more obvious to the news media, high percentages of registered Democrats equaled high percentages of votes for Kerry.

    •  For God's sake, people... (none)
      It's been pretty well-established that the smaller FL counties have lots of voters who have been registered Dems for years but have historically voted Repub.  These are old, rural voters, whose Dem registrations date to the early 60s.

      Just because a bunch of registered Dems pulled the Bush lever is NOT evidence of fraud.  If there's EVIDENCE, real EVIDENCE of fraud, you can bet that everyone will get behind it.  (And frankly, the Ohio stuff seems likelier than Florida.)  But we simply can't be throwing out accusations that aren't sufficiently supported by facts.

      •  How can you trust that people will follow the lead (none)
        I agree that party affiliations in Florida don't mean a thing. And that the only thing we are seing in the Florida results are an accentuation of the trend that smaller counties are more republican...

        But I completely disagree with the fact that if there is fraud, people will jump on it. The mainstream media has given George Bush and his team pass after pass. The tendency is to give Bush the benefit of the doubt (even if there are strong doubts) and then maybe come back and criticize way after the fact. Remember the Irak war? And then the mild mea-culpa by The NYT and WP for having been cheerleaders?

        This could be happening again. I don't understand people who are shouting out to silence bloggers. If there is a forum in which a little bit of critical reasoning is welcome, well this is it.

        Fellow bloggers, be proud, be loud!

      •  Unfortunately, you're right. (none)
        After the 15th or 16th person emailed me the link to the optical-vs-touchscreen counties comparison, I spent a couple of hours looking at it.  

        Unfortunately, the person who did the analysis doesn't know anything about Florida.  Those small counties, which do have heavy Dem registration, vote Republican.  When you go back and look at the 2000 data, turns out that those "strange" counties voted pretty much the exact same way in 2000 as well.  So really, there's nothing unusual about it.  (I wish there was!)

        Furthermore, I crunched some more numbers, trying to factor out the difference in sample size for the touch screen counties (which are primarily in urban areas) and the optical scan counties (primarily rural).  It turns out that the optical scan counties, the Rethugs managed to sucker about an extra 4% of registered voters into voting for them, and in the touchscreen counties they suckered about 3% (compared to 2000).  Throw in the fact that the minorities are concentrated in the touch screen counties (read:  urban areas), and that's precisely what you would expect.  If anything, you'd expect it to be worse.

        That's not to say there wasn't fraud.  This being Florida, you'd pretty much figure there was in some areas.  But this focus on the optiscan vs. touchscreen issue isn't it, I'm afraid.  :(

        •  "Southern Democrats vote this way" memes (none)
          It's getting annoying, okay.  We've heard it before... party registration means nothing in these parts (unless they're republicans)... don't tell us how we vote down here... blah, blah.  These imprecise attempts at refuting the Common Dreams Hartmann article achieve nothing.  Looking at results from the 2000 election could be helpful but you have to take into consideration at least two things: 1) the optical scan machines in those precincts could have been rigged last time around (remember no hand recount of those votes was begun); and 2) some of those older, segregationists may have passed away in the past four years.  These are voters who would have been registered Democrats BEFORE the 1970s.  Why would segregationists not have registered as Republicans after that?  Were they racists who just happened to like the Kennedys?  If you have an answer to that, then offer it.  The numbers of segregationists registered as Democrats has shrunk in the last four years, unless there is some piece of data I am missing.  In the meantime, stop making arguments when you have no clue of what you're talking about.    
          •  Then look at the 1996 numbers (none)
            They're up on the site, too. Also? The 2002 and 1998 #s (presumably the odd-# years too).

            (switch ve-riz-on and ace-pumpk-in and remove dashes.)

            by Ace Pumpkin on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 04:20:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  some FL election results here (none)
              I know I'm just copying my own posts here, forgive me, but here is where I posted some links for folks to begin (I am not saying whether you should or shouldn't trust them, mind you) looking at #s. You can navigate the FL election site pretty easily. I'm not taking the time to do much analysis, as I am not qualified in the nitty-gritty.

              official election results in FL

              (switch ve-riz-on and ace-pumpk-in and remove dashes.)

              by Ace Pumpkin on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 04:24:52 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Dixiecrats (none)
            A fellow in Florida called in to Al Franken's show this morning when Al's guest was an MIT prof who's an expert in election data analysis.  

            The fellow reports that, in smaller Florida counties, the primary is the ALL important election ... and it pays to register Democrat to participate in the primaries.  He said that in his own rural county, they've changed the system so that primaries are wide open.  But, most rural counties, he said, still have closed primaries.

            The MIT prof concurred.

            -- "How can we trust the Bush administration to protect us from a biological terrorist attack when it can't even manage to provide flu shots?"

            by SusanHu on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 08:40:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Ahem (none)
            Given that I just ran for Supervisor of Elections in one of the biggest counties in Florida (and if Kerry had freaking carried my county, I would have probaly won), I feel pretty good that I know the lay of the land around here.  In fact, I was a guest on Thom Hartmann's show a couple of weeks ago - given that he's in Vermont, I'm totally confident that I have a better understanding of the situation here than he does, with all due respect.

            Most of those counties didn't have optical scan last time.  They mostly used punch cards in 2000.  At some point, someone's going to have to come up with some actual evidence for all these theories about what could have happened.  So far, I haven't seen it.

    •  Crossing Party Lines in FL (none)
      re the Democrats who voted for Bush in Florida counties:  I'm being told that these are Dixiecrats, Southern democrats who vote for republicans.  Is this so?  
             I noticed that the Republican candidate for Senator, Martinez, also won in most of these counties over the Democrat, also with a larger percentage of the Democratic votes than the Democratic candidate.    Though nowhere did I see him winning by as large a margin as the unofficial records say Bush did over Kerry.  
              If these votes are accurate - why didn't the Democratic party realize that so many Democrats in FL would vote for Bush? Should the Democratic party kick them out?  What good is it having members registered in your party if they are not going to vote for your major candidates?   Zel Miller is no anomaly?  And why are these people even Democrats?  Because their parents were?
             I'm also dismayed that the articles in the major media - NYTimes et al, even the Wash Post - are mentioning the conservative, redneck, evangelical vote in the South and FL for Bush - but not mentioning that most of these voters are registered Democrats!  If it's true and not wacky touchscreen results, it seems like a key observation to me.
           I say:   scrutinize the Florida vote, every machine, every polling place, every county.  Cross check against other data, do follow-up interviews, figure out what when on.  The Democratic party should INVEST in doing this.
  •  Nothing wrong with re-voting on paper ballots (none)
    nationwide. What have the winners to fear?

    Because they damn well know it was packed, stacked, hacked and whacked? Why not try asking  and find out? Oh yeah: they just published a poll which says that [Resmug and Corporate] Americans and happy about a decisive vote.

    Between this: http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?offset=0&catid=&showall=&sort=

    And Ethnic cleansing of registered voters: http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SOL411A.html
    .../...Troy, Michigan Republican State Rep. John Pappageorge, a Michigan Bush campaign Co-Chair, was quoted in July 16 edition of the Detroit Free Press as saying, "If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election." Blacks comprise 83 percent of Detroit's population, and the city routinely elects Democratic candidates by substantial margins. The British Broadcasting Company has also disclosed a memo to top Republican officials in Florida identifying voters in predominantly black precincts for possible challenge.

    and this from the Beeb, dated Saturday 6 2004:

    .../...[Rove] set up computers in the Old Family Dining Room and started tabulating results. He had set up a massive network of contacts, not just in state capitals, but individual districts and precincts to monitor turnout and support.

    Mr Rove may spin the news, but the media still wants to hear him
    Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.

    He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column- bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them.

    And when the TV networks gave either Ohio or Nevada to Mr Bush but not both - which would have led him to be declared as the winner - Mr Rove was one of the president's aides who got on the phone to news chiefs to try to pressure them to change their minds.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3987237.stm

  •  What happened to Jeff Fisher?? (none)
    ?
  •  Cuyahoga County, Ohio (none)
    I've been asking about this all day

    http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id20.html

    If you look at the per-precinct data actual voters outnumber registered voters by 93,000 votes.

    The same data can be found at the official site, but not so neatly packaged:

    http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm

    •  Again, a caution (none)
      I can't stress this enough, but it looks like not all of those precincts are what we would think of as regular voter precincts. Some look like "special districts" of some sort. I have an e-mail in to the Cuyahoga Board of Elections asking how to differentiate them, but I haven't heard back from them yet.

      The actual number of "extra" votes for presidential candidates is almost certainly less than the 93,000 mentioned, but some of number of them definitely exist. Two examples are Highland Hills Village (760 registered voters and 8,822 ballots cast) and Woodmere Village (558 registered voters and 8,854 ballots cast).

      To be sure, this bears extremely close scrutiny, but we need verifiable figures before pushing any particular line of inquiry, no?

      •  Another oddity (none)
        The number of registered voters and ballots cast are IDENTICAL in Euclid and Cleveland Heights.
        •  I agree this is weird, but (none)
          It's the ward level data that's off, not the precinct-level data. In the detailed canvass (as opposed to the summary), you don't find the discrepancies. If you add up the individual precincts, you get the ward totals listed. In the summary, the precincts are reproduced accurately from the canvass, but not the wards. The grand vote totals are the same in the canvass and the summary. I don't know how they screwed this up, but it's not likely to result in any changes, unfortunately, at least as far as I can tell (although I'd love to be wrong).
          •  Cuyahoga Numbers (none)
            These are the totals at the Cuyahoga county site and at the Ohio Sect'y of State site.

            REGISTERED:  1,005,807

            # VOTED:  665,334

            # VOTED FOR PRESIDENT:  648886

            # for Kerry:  433,262

            # for Bush:  215,624

            (third party not included here)

            http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos//results/index.html

            -- "How can we trust the Bush administration to protect us from a biological terrorist attack when it can't even manage to provide flu shots?"

            by SusanHu on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 08:45:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  smelly election story will be on MSNBC (none)
    Olbermann says he is bringing the vote fraud stories to the mainstream media "Monday (tonight)and/or Tuesday".

    NEW YORK - Here's an interesting little sidebar of our system of government confirmed recently by the crack Countdown research staff: no Presidential candidate's concession speech is legally binding. The only determinants of the outcome of election are the reports of the state returns boards and the vote of the Electoral College.

    That's right. Richard Nixon may have phoned John Kennedy in November, 1960, and congratulated him through clenched teeth. But if the FBI had burst into Kennedy headquarters in Chicago a week later and walked out with all the file cabinets and a bunch of employees with their raincoats drawn up over their heads, nothing Nixon had said would've prevented him, and not JFK, from taking the oath of office the following January.

    This is mentioned because there is a small but blood-curdling set of news stories that right now exists somewhere between the world of investigative journalism, and the world of the Reynolds Wrap Hat. And while the group's ultimate home remains unclear - so might our election of just a week ago.

    Stories like these have filled the web since the tide turned against John Kerry late Tuesday night. But not until Friday did they begin to spill into the more conventional news media. That's when the Cincinnati Enquirer reported that officials in Warren County, Ohio, had "locked down" its administration building to prevent anybody from observing the vote count there.

    . . . .

    We will be endeavoring to pull those stories, along with the Warren County farce, into the mainstream Monday and/or Tuesday nights on Countdown. That is, if we can wedge them in there among the news media's main concerns since last Tuesday: . . .

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240

  •  dKosopedia Entry! (none)
    Recommended!  Looks like we are collecting voting irregularities here on the dKosopedia.  Please update with this new stuff!
  •  blackboxvoting.org DOS attack? (none)
    Looks like the blackboxvoting.org site may be experiencing a hacker attack ... haven't been able to get on for ages.

    Any news on this?

    •  I'm always thinking that. . . . (none)
      and it has been hacked and shut down, BUT

      I think recently it's just overloaded.  I've been on it twice today.  Sometimes, you just have to give it ten minutes rest and come back.  

      Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

      by Einsteinia on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 01:16:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bev Harris made a comment on her site (none)
      recently (maybe today) about the slowness of www.blackboxvoting.org and how those problems will be addressed soon so there' no reason to think her site has been hacked as far as I know.
  •  Ahnold (none)
    Wasn't one of the Terminator movies called "Rise of the Machines?" I think it might be an appropriate term for this!
  •  NEW: US election fraud scandal looms? (none)
    NEW: US election fraud scandal looms?

    US election fraud scandal looms?

    Explosive conjectures and evidence

    STEALING ELECTIONS is a sordid tradition in the United States, though it's certainly not unknown in some other countries, as well.

    Now a New Zealand political activist has published suspicions, along with supporting evidence, that electronic voting in the US is being manipulated by right-wing politicians with the connivance of several voting machine manufacturers. The story revolves around some highly volatile conjectures and might be explosive, if fully investigated.

    The article is reprinted below with permission, lightly edited merely for formatting, minor typos and a minor fact (G.W. Bush isn't a Jr.).

    Here at the INQUIRER, we can't help but notice that the highly, er... accommodating database software that drives these allegedly dodgy and easily tampered electronic voting machines is... Microsoft Access.

    And we're trying to decide on a catchy term that ends in "gate"

    Bigger Than Watergate!

    The story you are about to read is in this writer's view the biggest political scandal in American history, if not global history. And it is being broken today here in New Zealand.

    This story cuts to the bone the machinery of democracy in America today. Democracy is the only protection we have against despotic and arbitrary government, and this story is deeply disturbing.

    Imagine if you will that you are a political interest group that wishes to control forevermore the levers of power. Imagine further that you know you are likely to implement a highly unpopular political agenda, and you do not wish to be removed by a ballot driven backlash.

    One way to accomplish this outcome would be to adopt the Mugabe (Zimbabwe) or Hun Sen (Cambodia) approach: You agree to hold elections, but simultaneously arrest, imprison and beat your opponents and their supporters. You stuff ballot boxes, disenfranchise voters who are unlikely to vote for you, distort electoral boundaries and provide insufficient polling stations in areas full of opposition supporters.

    •  Why silence on the main page? (none)
      African-American voter suppression is the elephant in the e-room.

      When an elderly woman in Cleveland stands in the rain for four hours to vote, she should have no doubt whatsoever that her vote will be counted.

      It's that simple.

      What would Martin Luther King say if he knew he fought so hard to lead the Civil Rights movement, so in 2004, we'd have

      an African-American National Security Adviser

      an African-American Supreme Court Justice

      and an African-American Secretary of State

      who belong to a party that systematically suppresses the African-American vote?

      I have a feeling even Martin Luther King would be speechless.

  •  this whole thing is damn weird. (2.50)
    what's up with jeff fisher? for that matter, what's up with bev harris? her site is shifty as hell and doesn't seem to provide any real information other than that she's desperately looking for donations.

    there's this big story saturday night about this jeff fisher guy, blackbox voting promises a "big story" in the next 24 hours (which, as it turns out, seems to consist of pictures of four goofy looking guys), olbermann is sort of on it, but apparently he's running into trouble... nothing has materialized in spite of vehement claims that something will.

    on the other hand, you have people around here going nuts trying to shut this stuff up (as opposed to just saying it's crap and leaving it at that), and since everything about this story seems to be going on on the internet, that in itself looks pretty strange.

    in short, what's up with this stuff?

  •  US less democratic than Serbia, Venezuela (none)
    From Der Spiegel:

    "European election observers have this to say about last week's vote tallying: not bad, but still not up to par with Venezuela and not even as good as Serbia. The 92 observers from the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) came at the behest of America, and said in comparison with 2000, the US had made great strides and complied with all the rules of a fair and democratic election. But: The much-maligned voting computers, while fairly successful, were not -- said some members -- as sophisticated or secure as the e-voting system used in Venezuela. Other observers said technological wizardry is not always a recipe for success: "Honestly, I have to say, the elections in Serbia a few months ago were much easier to observe," said OSCE member Konrad Olszewski of Poland. In Serbia, they don't have an electoral college system and use what Olszewski thinks is still the best voting technique: paper ballots for everyone."

  •  30,000 complaints... (none)
    The National Committee for Voting Integrity, comprising computer scientists and other elections experts, was not as satisfied, however. The Election Incident Reporting System, run by Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility in Palo Alto, Calif., and the Verified Voting Foundation, recorded more than 30,000 complaints, according to Will Doherty, executive director of the Verified Voting Foundation in San Francisco.

    Some voting machines in Louisiana and Pennsylvania failed to operate when powered up, causing long lines and voter frustration. In New Orleans, some polling places ran out of backup ballots when machines failed.

    "I think New Orleans is going to be a really big question," Doherty said. "I believe there will be litigation in New Orleans on this problem."

    In Florida, technical glitches and insufficient backup power caused such long waits in some places that e-vote cards had expired by the time many voters had reached the machines.

    Elsewhere in Florida and in Ohio, some machines went dark during the balloting.

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1714725,00.asp

  •  Another fuct machine (none)
    From a lawyer who was in there in Ohio.
    Touch screen voting machines in Youngstown OH were registering "George W. Bush" when people pressed "John F. Kerry" ALL DAY LONG. This was reported immediately after the polls opened, and reported over and over again throughout the day, and yet the bogus machines were inexplicably kept in use THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
  •  Haven't seen this one for more votes cast... (none)
    than people live in Martin County FL.

    so here you go, I ran the numbers myself and this is what i came up with.

    Martin County, 2000 Census:  Electronic Machine Type: N/A  
    Pop.        %white    %afro-amer.        %hisp
    126,731    89.9        5.3            7.5

    Census estimates for pop. Growth 2003:
    Pop. 6.6% increase to 135,122.
    Ballots cast/counted in 2004 for President, 139,644 per cnn here.
    Story here: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/FL/P/00/county.001.html#12085

    Difference in total  population vs. ballots cast and counted: 4522

  •  Sign the petition telling Kerry to file! (4.00)
    I'm reposting this because here because people are looking for things to do-- pass this around!

    Should the Kerry campaign and the DNC challenge the election fraud
    that many believe has taken place?  Here's a page where you can email
    them and the Government Accountability Office too from a single form
    with one click, and pass the word to all your friends as well.

    http://www.thepen.us/e-fraud.html
    Speak out through the People's Email Network.

    Our democracy is at stake....

  •  For how long is this going to continue? (1.00)
    We lost.

    "But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it."-Paul Krugman

    by theprogressivemiddle on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 04:12:37 PM PST

    •  the point is we don't KNOW if we lost! (none)
      that's the point. we need to check to see what the vote was-- or should be.

      Most of us said, after seeing Michael Moore's 9/11 "I didn't KNOW about all that intimidation and fraud! if I knew, I would have DONE something!"

      well now it's time to DO something.

      If we don't question the way this election was run NOW, we can give up EVER hoping that our votes will actually count for anything.

      We stop when the votes are counted-- as correctly as possible.

    •  Can you be sure? (none)
      How, precisely, do you know that Kerry (not my candidate, actually) lost?  With so many unanswered questions still, so many uncounted votes still, and so many votes which are completly unverifiable, how can you claim to know what no one else does?  Even the Bush camp does not know who won, they just know that they need to pretend that Bush won, no matter what.

      It's fine to accept that the Democrats did far worse than they should have, given the anti-American antics of the Bush administration, and go on to discuss why this was.  But please don't accept the election "results" as they were presented by the Republican controlled election officials and their machines.  We will probably never know for sure how many people really intended to vote for Kerry on the 2nd, but there are at least some things we still may find out that may change people's idea of who won.

      -Turil

    •  This isn't about this election (4.00)
      This is about the future of American democracy. If we don't fight now, then we lose by 10% in 2006 and 2008. We may never be able to trust the vote again in this country... and it happens TWICE to elect Bush? Come on, how much more blatant can they be? Even they think Dems won't do anything. And far too many Kossacks for my taste are accomodating them.
    •  maybe we lost (none)
      Or maybe they stole it, like in 2000. How are we ever going to know if we don't pursue this?

      And why should they ever stop stealing elections? Don't forget that after 2008 there are
      (shudder)
      three more Bush brothers who haven't been President yet.

      The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

      by SensibleShoes on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 05:58:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The people to convince aren't your fellow voters.. (none)
    They are the Democratic Party leaders.  Absent their conviction that fraud altered this election, nothing will happen, and you are on a Quixotic quest.  Whatever conspiracy theory you would want to advance that there was widespread fraud to Republican advantage, you'd have to add a conspiracy on the part of Democratic leaders to keep quiet about it...Seems unlikely.

    My guess, as a moderate Republican, is that any mechanism which diminishes fraud will play out to the advantage of the Republicans.  If you were to read the average Republican opinion, it's that there is a lot more fraud generating Democratic votes than Republican ones.

    I don't pretend to have any insight as to which is true, but as a Republican I'm certainly not afraid of making voting mechanisms fail-safe.

    •  Share that with Delay and Hastert (none)
      Maybe you could help convince fellow Republicans to allow votes on bills that would require any and all voting mechanisms to be fully auditable?
    •  The Dem probably won't be helpful here... (none)
      I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry, et al, know for a fact that there was fraud, but that they are too immersed in corporate money to do anything about it without jeopardizing their careers.

      It might take a little more than a crude letter claiming that voters will go to jail and have their children taken away to convince top Democrats to keep quiet, but I'm sure they have their limits as to what they'll risk.  Kerry did give up shockingly soon, especially after promising to "count every vote".

      •  I would be stunned to find out that Senator Kerry (none)
        knew for a fact there was fraud, but was too immersed in corporate money to do anything about it.  Aside from the fact that he is a person of great character, he just spent all the political currency of his career in a run for president.  Risked a lot; paid a great price.  He didn't "give up;" in his mind he just lost.  And he is an experienced politician.  It is simply untenable that he is too stupid, too lazy, or too beholden to some vague third party interest to press a case for fraud.

        Here's what's true:  the Democratic leaders decided they lost they election.  They didn't simply decide to fold up because they are missing insights that the faithful have uncovered.  They didn't concede because it's just too much bother to pursue fraud.

        If you don't think that's true, then at least be content that Mr. Kerry wasn't elected, because if it is true Mr. Kerry thinks there was fraud, and just didn't pursue it, he didn't deserve anyone's support.

        Senator Kerry conceded because...he lost the election.

        I would personally love to see an auditable, verifiable, clean, simple, national, voting system.  There are so many levels of shennanigans on both sides I'm sick of hearing about it, even though I think the whole thing more or less evens out for both sides when the  electorate is so split.

        It would do more for the credibility of most of the posters on dailykos to report with equal breathlessness the sneaky Democratic-side suspicious activity, but then I don't read this site for balanced view--just to make sure I listen to all views.

  •  Election Fraud (none)
    Congressman John Conyers is on MSNBC right now taking about it an praising the media for hoping on it.
  •  Election Boards for all 50 States (none)
    http://soswy.state.wy.us/sos/elect.htm

    do not know how accurate. hopefully helpful

  •  What is up with blackboxvoting.org (none)
    They've been promising evidence for days...

    And what in bloody hell happened to Jeff Fisher? He was waiting for the FBI...then nothing? What's the deal?

    If something doesn't break soon i'm going to go insane.

  •  My blog (none)
    I am assembling lists of our allies.  I am trying to provide links to the latest news.

    Thanks to everyone who understands how urgent this is.

    But we shouldn't fool ourselves that Kerry will be our new president.  This movement has to be about ensuring future elections reflect the will of the people.

    Peace

    Why Are We Back In Iraq?

  •  Great Article: None Dare Call It Vote Fraud (none)
    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Nov2004/Fitrakis1108.htm

    By Bob Fitrakis

    "The nonpartisan Citizen's Alliance for Secure Elections (CASE) is investigating various other voting irregularities in Ohio, among them:

    • In Miami County, Ohio, with 100% of the precincts reporting at 9am EST Wednesday, Nov. 3, Bush had 20,807 votes (65.80%) and Kerry had 10,724 (33.92%). Miami reported 31,620 voters. Inexplicably, nearly 19,000 new ballots were added after all precincts reported, boosting Bush's vote to 33,039 (65.77%) to Kerry's 17,039 (33.92%). CASE is investigating why the percentage of the vote stayed exactly the same to 3/100ths of a percentage point after nearly 19,000 new ballots were added. CASE members speculate that it's either a long-shot coincidence with the last three digits remaining the same, or that someone had pre-set a database and programmed a voting machine to cough up a pre-set percentage of votes. Miami County uses an easily hackable optical scanner with the central counter provided by the Republican-linked vendor ES&S.

    • In rural Drake County, Kerry received 78 less votes than Al Gore in 2000, but Bush received 3000 more votes. Drake is the only county in Miami Valley where Kerry's votes was less than Gore's and where Bush's vote rose dramatically.

    .. 102,134 of the provisional ballots, nearly two-thirds (65.7%) in all probability come from solidly pro-Kerry areas and are most likely cast by pro-Kerry supporters such as African Americans and the poor...Palast also points to the 92,672 so-called "spoiled" ballots in Ohio that have yet to be counted, and may never be tallied...By Blackwell directing county Boards of Elections not to count the provisional ballots for 11 days, it benefited the Bush campaign since an immediate counting would have no doubt made the race tigher between Kerry and Bush, and perhaps prompted Kerry to request a recount. This would have the 92,672 discarded "spoiled" ballots that were also likely to favor Kerry.

    ... The Republican Party sent letters challenging thousands of Franklin County registered voters who requested absentee ballots. Franklin County is home to ... Ohio State U., thousands of local students go to schools outside the county or state. The GOP targeted young voters for challenges. The GOP pre-challenged an estimated 35,000 voters..The GOP sent registered letters to registered voters' addresses and when they failed to pick up a letter from the Republican Party in primarily Democratic areas, they were challenged for fraud...

    * Even if they are counted, Franklin County's absentee ballot forms are designed in ways strikingly reminiscent of those notorious butterfly ballots in the Florida 2000 presidential election. .. Kerry is the third name on the list of presidential candidates on the left side of the ballot. But, the punch card is designed to fit in the middle, so the actual number you punch for Kerry is hole "4." If you mistakenly punch hole "3" you've just voted for Bush."

    •  we NEED a full recount in Florida. (none)
      Period. Anything else would be downright criminal.

      Is there any way this can be accomplished? I'm extremely skeptical, and Theresa Lepore among many others, including Jeb Bush, should be thrown in jail as far as i'm concerned.

      If you guys only knew the weirdness of the 2002 election in Florida. The 2002 election also contained many, many "irregularities" all over the board, and it just keeps getting ignored.

      This cannot continue. If it does, i'm honestly going to leave this country. It's truly sad, but i'm not going to fight a fight I can't win. The people just don't care.

      •  Sorry, responded to the wrong post... (none)
        Yours was about Ohio. My bad.

        We need a full count in Ohio, but Florida is the worst, and if they won't do it, lawsuits need to be filed. They are making a joke of voting.

    •  It can be helpful, also, to have a testable... (none)
      ...hypothesis or model of a complex situation.
      Based on the various threads and posts it might be worthwhile to consider a hypothesis that I'll refer to as the 'imperceptible adjust and gambit distraction' hypothesis.

      In testing such an hypothesis, you might consider looking for a distribution of unexplained votes for Bush of 1K here and there in small precincts, 10K here and there in somewhat larger precincts, and you might find that the 'imperceptible adjust' fit;

      You would also consider where and what type of events would act as 'distraction gambits', for instance, thugs at the polls in a place like OH or underwriting to get Nader on the ballot in places like OH, PN, etc., or locking observers out of a few rooms where ballots were being counted or .....

      Small numbers of votes relative to the size of each reporting area being added while lots of smoke was being generated, would be a reasonable way to not only get sufficient numbers for an EC win, but create just enough of an overall delta to claim 'popular support.' If done well it would render almost any effort to uncover and prove very difficult, and thereby raise a bar to the scrutiny of any claim and create a risk most would not take.

      A different situation but one that I have thought of more in the past 5 days than I have since I lived through it. We lived in DC through the entire 'pentagon papers' and 'watergate' tragedies and I'll never forget the first mention of 'the tapes.'

      Every person I spoke to in the first hours, days of the revelation that those tapes existed either proclaimed 'impossible,' 'unimaginable,' 'they'll burn'um before they release them'.... In other words, it was all so astonishing, so much requiring of one to suspend reason -- how could such things even exist and, even more astonshing, that they weren't destroyed followed by a statement of 'you've gotta be kinding me, the President is going to secretly record such discusssions, blahdeblahdeblah.'

      Well, this time around, it appears that most folk just want this issue to go away because each instance being discussed appears just too small to matter either in OH, or FL, or...., and besides, he's got a 3M popular vote lead.  

      To that I say, maybe and maybe, but, just step back, take a look at the entire picture, form a hypothesis about how it could have been done and then test the hypothesis.  

      However, the issue that is most important to me is entirely non-partisan. It is comprehensive disenfranchisement. And, central to the disenfranchisement is the use of voting systems that are readily compromised and lead to the reality we face today.

      We have no idea what really happened on 2 Nov 2004. We have no idea what would have happened had each eligble voter been given a paper ballot, marked it and deposited it, and those ballots were counted by fellow citizens under the suppervision of a non-partisan group of observers.

      That we claim to be the model of Democracy and have a more verifiable system working in Serbia than here is truly tragic.

      That we claim the Iraqi's are going to have a fair election in Jan 2005 and what we show the world is the one we just had -- oh, sure.

      "It's about America" [the one that is on life support and in need of immediate, heroic treatment]

      •  And, one other very IMPORTANT factor.... (none)
        ....if one were the architect of an approach such as the one hypothesized above, one would have had to think carefully about how long it would take for someone to uncover it.

        If left to a few investigative journalists, a GAO look-see here and there, ....., likely forever if at all.

        But, what about those 'internets' .... well, that experiment is underway just now and....we'll see.

  •  Bush Met With Blackwell on Election Day (none)
    http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/981

    "... the Columbus Dispatch story also reported that the computerized e-voting machine recorded 0 votes in a race between Franklin County Commissioners Arlene Shoemaker and Paula Brooks...

    Damschroder is the former Executive Director of the Franklin County Republican Party, and sources close to the Board of Elections tell the Free Press that Damschroder and Ohio's Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell met with President Bush in Columbus on Election Day."

    •  We need to include this with the discrepencies. (none)
      Even though it's "tin-foil-hat", it's worthy to note these developments. The backgrounds of the companies, all three, that provided the election machines is very, very, interesting.
  •  50,000 :1 bush beats the odds (none)
    found this intersting little tidbit which may explain why Karen Hughes was shitting her pants while GWB was smirking and KRove was laughing hysterically.
    who would put money on those odds?
    the most glaring anomily of this election is in the exit polls versus actual results.
    Jimmy Carter claims exit polls to be the most accurate way to verify the accuracy of an election and the man knows a thing or two about elections.
    where is he? should be all over this.
    notice the guy crunching the numbers is from MIT, not some poor tin foiled office junky like myself trying to make sense of what i know in my gut is an illegitame election result in my spare time after work.
    pass this on, i have already shot it off to KO and hope to see it at #1 on the countdown.
     

    steal one election, shame on you, steal the second election, shame on me

    by irieisme on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 07:51:35 PM PST

  •  Exit Polls vs. Actual Vote (none)
    This chart is quite revealing, showing how close the final count was to exit polls in states using paper ballots and how out of whack the vote count was in states using electronic voting:

    http://img103.exs.cx/img103/4526/exit_poll.gif

    It just covers a handful of states - I'd like to see a comprehensive chart for the entire country.

  •  Florida Numbers (none)
    I just rechecked the Secretary of State's site, and they changed their turnout figures (so that they're in parity with the Presidential vote numbers).  Does that mean they simply updated old turnout numbers, or covered up fraud?

    "Whether the British ruling class are wicked or merely stupid is one of the most difficult questions of our time." - George Orwell on the Spanish Civil War

    by Ramo on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 08:59:33 PM PST

  •  We need historical trends... (none)
    ...We need to be able to determine if what looks anomalous truly is.  

    Here's an idea: locate historical records for Ohio and Florida that detail, county by county, for 1996, 2000, and 2004:

    • presidential vote totals
    • turnout and registration figures
    • population
    • party registration
    • voting technology

    I imagine that all of this is publicly available.  dKos members can check out a county at a time, compile results, and submit the info back to a central organizer.  The result would be a database or spreadsheet that any of us can use to run comparisons and figure out which counties deserve a closer look - precinct by precinct, if data is available on that granular of a level.

    If anyone is interested I'll look at putting something together.  There is a lot of good work going on, but I haven't seen anything that takes a longer comparitive look.  

    if ( $bush->speak() ) { $lie = true; }

    by mighty monkey on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 10:16:28 PM PST

  •  Anyone notice the vote count from... (none)
    Ohio webpage of unnofficial total ballots here shows a difference in 92720 votes in florida here:

    http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos//results/index.html

    than CNN here:

    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/index.html

    These reason I bring that up is because that makes the race from 136,483 to got knows what with 92,720, without the 90K+ provisional ballots.

    Has someone talked about this already, and I missed it?

  •  What YOU can do. (none)
    [Will someone promote this to a Diary for me? Up to you.]

    http://www.democrats.org/feedback/

    Tell these people that elsewhere in the world presidential elections are often held in two stages - and of course that it is done via paper/auditable ballots. Request that another poll be held on paper ballots. These can be printed locally from a common source made available on the web.

    Ask that ancilliary ballot questions be set aside and that instead of 13,000 elections the reVote("ballottage")  be confined to presidential, gubernatorial and senatorial contenders in a nation-wide poll.

    Insist that the evident malfeasance, malfunctioning, conflict of interest, harassment, ethnic cleansing of voter registrations, malversations, loss of early-vote tallies/ballots, cynical spoilage of absentee and overseas votes, vote rigging/tampering and voter intimidation reported everywhere be grounds for not certifying the results of the November 2 wherever they occurred.

    Point out that this is no time for lickspittle compromise, but a national emergency with world-wide repercussions.

    Then:

    Those four infamous corporations which created this vile mess have had their chance and they blew it so spectacularly that they are now officially Out of Business. Make sure that your local authorities get a refund for public funds allocated to the purchase of worthless electronics, then sue them into Chapter 11. Ensure that their CEO's and BOD are made personally responsible for incompetence and negligence and/or malfeasance.

    AND:
    Make it your personal business, locally, to ensure that the ballots employed are in fact identical to the original on display and that suspect results are not certified by blowhard crimminal conspirators intent on consolidating their ill-gotten gains. Anyone who tells you it can't be done ain't seen nothing, yet.

  •  Bev Harris: Kerry conceded because of a lie (none)
    Kerry conceded because of a lie

    Bev Harris gave a radio interview tonight, which can be found at:

    http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/08/1513252

    Monday, November 8th, 2004
    The E-Vote Factor: Kerry Conceded But Did He Really Lose?

    ...

    Perhaps the most shocking point of this interview (to me) is the fact that Kerry conceded the election based on false information -- he was told that there were about 150,000 provisional ballots left to count, but in reality, Ohio HAD NO IDEA how many provisional ballots there were From the radio interview:

    BEV HARRIS: Oh yes, they conceded very prematurely. As I was saying in Ohio, they don't even know if they won or lost in Ohio, really. They are basing this on, I think, a verbal okay from someone in the Secretary of State's office that said, that they were being assured there was only 150,000 provisional ballots. Well I said, where is the source data on that? What auditing do they have on those? They couldn't tell me.

  •  new posting from Bev Harris: What YOU can do (none)
    Hi folks.
    This is posting from Bev Harris (blackboxvoting)-- don't know why it's not on her site...

    but good list of things to do-- to circulate, how to sign up for her list:

    BBV: Help America Audit -- 5 Things You Can Do Immediately

    Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 12:15 AM by BevHarris

    I was tipped off by a person very high up in TV that the news has been locked down tight, and there will be no TV coverage of the real problems with voting on Nov. 2. Even the journalists are pretty horrified. My source said they've also been forbidden to talk about it even on their own time, and he was calling from somewhere else. He was trying to figure out how to get the real news out on vote fraud.

    This is a person I've worked with off and on for nearly two years, and the voice was so somber it really bothered me.

    At any rate -- and perhaps, especially important due to the tipoff above, there are things you can do to take back America.

    ========

    We have a different list for lawyers, computer people, statisticians. But if you are a regular person like most of us, and want to help, here's what to do.

    Please distribute: If you have not done so already, sign up at Black Box Voting -- http://www.blackboxvoting.org -- to audit the election and deal with vote fraud.

    HELP AMERICA AUDIT: 5 Things You Can Do Right Now to Reclaim Democracy

    You're our greatest hope. If you choose to accept it, your job is to spread the word in order to build a fast-growing grass roots movement -- a voting integrity project so powerful that it cannot be mowed down.

    1. BE THE MEDIA -- See below.

    2. CRUNCH THE NUMBERS: Discrepancies please, and hurry. E-mail them to tips@blackboxvoting.org . Pass the word. Need source documents, too. ASAP. Follow your nose, or join the Black Box Scavenger Hunt: Pick a county. Look at small counties, as we are seeing many discrepancies in those. Look in any state. Get the official number of registered voters, Dem and Republican. Get the number of votes cast on Nov. 2, Republican and Dem. Make a grid like this, filling in the right numbers:

    # reg. voters % # votes cast %
    Rep 100 33% 150 50%
    Dem 200 67% 150 50%
    Totl 300 100% 300 100%

    We can find out a lot from this procedure, very hard data, that will make a real difference. As soon as you have finished a county, e-mail it to us. Do as many counties as you can.

    1. HAVE A HOUSE PARTY: Show the film "Votergate" (the real one, which you can download for free at www.Votergate.tv .) Organize "Be the media" actions and set up investigative teams to help dig up information like you have in #2. Timeline is NOW, to get action before seating the electoral college.

    2. HELP CONNECT THE WIRES: Hook Black Box Voting (.ORG) up with powerhitters you know, people who can make things happen.

    3. DONATE to any of 3 organizations: Black Box Voting (.ORG), the consumer protection group for elections; or the new recount fund (information upcoming, contact DU's Hedda_Foil), or send contribution to Votergate.tv (The REAL Votergate film, by Russell Michaels, Robert Carrillo Cohen, and Simon Ardizzone. There is another by someone else, make sure you get the right one.) The real VOTERGATE is the most powerful investigative film on this topic, and consequently it has been attacked and blocked repeatedly. They deserve your support.

    "HOW TO BE THE MEDIA"

    Don't expect to see vote burglary on TV. To get the message out fast, you're going to have to become the underground railroad. Do it now. Take pictures of each other doing it. Have house parties to show others how to do it. Here's how to "be the media."

    BE YOUR OWN REPORTER: We will send you new information as we get it. We need your e-mail to get you on the list, so if a friend sent this to you, please shoot an email to crew@blackboxvoting.org to sign up.

    Spread the information we send you to every blog, listserv, forum you know and throughout your personal network. Talk about it at work and to people you meet everywhere, lots, quickly, all the time.

    SELF SERVE SOUND BITES: Frequent, very short messages to immediately increase public awareness. Assume you won't see it on TV.
    Put vote fraud related messages on:

    • Yard signs
    • Car windows
    • Write them on duct tape and wear them
    • Print REMOVABLE stickers and stick them on things:
    • Bathroom door at the gas station.
    • On telephone poles in the dead of night
    • At bus stops
    • On the back of bus seats
    • Stick them into your junk mail and send it back via return mail
    • Slip them into menus at restaurants
    • Leave them in books at the bookstore
    • Share new self serve sound bite ideas with us and we'll send them out with new messages.

    ELECTION "TRUTH TOURETTES". Please excuse the political incorrectness, as it is not meant to be hurtful. It is for a good purpose. This the antidote to "watch what you say." It is a good icebreaker at a party. Have your guests make up truths, like those below, and mix them into the conversation at surprise times throughout the party. Unexpectedly and urgently blurt them out:

    Recount!
    Electile Dysfunction!
    Gotta audit-Gotta audit-Gotta audit
    Florida!
    --mathmatically impossible!--
    Count all the votes! Count all the votes! Count all the votes!
    Votefraud.
    Paperballots! Handcounts!
    --where's my vote?--
    Where's the paper?
    Feel free to interchange and mix it up, or even try a game where different people have to interject with different truths.
    - WHO REALLY WON -- I DUNNO -- GOTTA AUDIT!

    Also, here are more ideas.

    • Magnetic signs for your car
    • If you know a trucker, have them put a message in the window as they drive across the county.
    • Make a patch and put it on the front of your baseball cap
    • Carry a sign and stand in the window outside the Today Show

    If we have to be our own media, so be it. We will not sacrifice democracy just because TV executive producers have a problem with this issue.

    Any designer out there who makes downloadable/printable graphics for us to print and such-- post the url here please!

  •  What group will request Florida's data? (none)
    According to the following article, nobody has directly picked up the chase to identify voting problems in Florida yet in any official capacity.  Lots of talk here.  Where is the official action?

    http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000720.html

    Maybe we can beg the CBC or BBC to inquire if no American media will touch it?

    Florida's sunshine law allows public inspection of the election data. What group will file to get this and analyze it?  It may not have to be a Floridian group that does this, but let's get any group to step up and make it happen!!!

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