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On Hardball tonight, General Wesley Clark was asked by Matthews about the nomination of Alberto Gonzales for Attorney General.  Clark stated in unequivocal terms that the nomination of Gonzales for AG was an outrage.  Clark stated that he could not support any person for Attorney General who asserted that:

(1) torture was in any way acceptable under American law;

(2) that the Geneva Conventions could be circumvented; and

(3) the President has unfettered power.

"How could Americans feel confident in the rule of law with an Attorney General who does not respect the most basic tenets of American law?"

Matthews asked Clark if he would testify against Gonzales?  Clark responded that he would testify against anyone who signed off the documents Gonzales approved.

Yeah, he's my guy, but I think we all can agree with what he said about Gonzales.

Update [2005-1-5 0:25:20 by Armando]: Link to the video.

Originally posted to Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:11 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Clark has some interesting thoughts (4.00)
    on possible BushCo military plans for Syria and Iran.

    Oh, and he also didn't rule out another run for President.

    I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

    by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:00:43 PM PST

    •  He's great (4.00)
      He started his campaign way too late this time.  If he starts it early enough next time, he'll probably do pretty well.  He's gaining more political experience now.

      Great diary, Armando.  I missed Hardball, so thanks for the report.

      i always wanted to be commander in chief of my one woman army
      -- ani difranco

      by Page van der Linden on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:04:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks Page (none)
        ditto on the "Who Wrote the Memos" diary.

        Though, to me, as I comment in your diary, it's a nonissue, he signed off.

        I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

        by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:05:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yep (4.00)
        It's so refreshing to hear that kind of undiluted truth telling. If only it weren't so rare!

        Frank Gaffney's on now sounding mealy mouthed and despicable.

        We have to continually be jumping off cliffs and developing our wings on the way down. - Kurt Vonnegut

        by bumblebums on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:09:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not That Late (none)
        Clark's problem wasn't that he started so late, it was that he started so poorly. He had been considering a run for months doing the usual political posturing about running, then he stumbled badly out of the gate. Had he done better, he might have been the beneficiary of the Dean/Gephardt mutual implosion.

        Clark's improved considerably, but even in 2008 his 2004 efforts will be a negative.

        •  Iowa Too (none)
          Remember that Clark pulled out of Iowa (There was some rumor floating that one of his advisors leaked the decision before Clark had even made up his mind).  Anyway, the conventional wisdom was that you needed a big ground organization to do well in Iowa - which turned out to be overstated.  Look at Edwards.  In retrospect, the decision to skip Iowa hurt badley.  

          Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

          by johnny rotten on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:52:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You had to be in early in Iowa. (none)
            And the decision not to contest Iowa was indeed leaked one night after Clark's decision to put everything into Iowa to undermine his choice of strategy and advance an advisors.

            Well we all know who's gut was right on that one don't we?

          •  would have been very tough for him in Iowa (none)
            By late summer 2003, all the experienced party organizers had already signed on to one of the other campaigns. It would have been very hard for Clark.

            True, Edwards had just a skeletal staff at that time and managed to do quite well. But he had some heavy-hitters in the Iowa Democratic Party on board. And the lack of a large organization did hurt him toward the end--as a Kerry precinct captain, I felt certain that Edwards would have won Iowa if he'd have had half of our organization.

            Clark didn't have the charisma and kick-ass stump speech of Edwards to get him going late in the game.

        •  Yeah, he stumbled, like telling us ... (4.00)
          ... Plan Iraq was the hot topic in the Pentagon the week after 9/11.

          Pretty bad stumble, that. He's telling us something very similar tonight.

          BTW, most of his "bad start" was rookie treatment manufactured by an arrogant press, and (sad to say) hostile Democrats.

          •  Fucking Nagourney (4.00)

            I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

            by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:15:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Clark Reminisces (3.66)
            Speaking as a Clark supporter from around December 2003 until he dropped out, I'd have to say that he did very much screw up early on in his campaign, and it was no fault but his own.  Specifically, he knew that he moment he got in he'd be in the spotlight, and yet he had almost no posititions on the issues when he made his announcement.  In other words, during the week that he commanded the spotlight, he had little to say.  Big mistake.

            Hopefully Clark will do better in 2008; he'd make a great president.  

            Clark also suffered this past time by getting in so late that his campaign staff was the dregs who hadn't been scooped up by others.  (Heck, his campaign manager was a Kerry campaign reject...someone who sucked too much for the Kerry campaign...think about that a few times.)

            Can we borrow some Ukrainians to teach us about how Democracy is supposed to work?

            by Go Vegetarian on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:44:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  "Hostile Democrats" (4.00)
            were perhaps the most discouraging thing for me. I had a number of friends who had a knee jerk reaction of "oh, he's military!" I hope he runs again - I kinda doubt he will - but will Dems' reluctance to embrace a military guy ever be overcome?
        •  I strongly disagree (4.00)
          I think it's always been a myth that Clark was a poor campaigner. In fact, his polling -- in a quite crowded field -- spiked the most in NH before the Iowa caucuses, despite the obvious hurdles he had to jump. Dean's collapse in and right after Iowa, which very few had expected, simply destroyed Clark's underdog campaign, which took a risk by putting everything on NH and hoping that it would emerge as a Dean-Clark race. But this very willingness to take a risk exemplified Clark's campaign (and it was smart too, considering the typical role of the party base in the Iowa caucuses) -- Clark's campaign was always quite bold, including the most forceful anti-war position and the most politically ambitious tax proposal (complete tax relief for all working-class families).

          "We have found the weapons of mass destruction" -- George Bush, May 30, 2003

          by awol on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:19:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was (4.00)
            co-chair of Data management for the Clark Campaign in California.  I had the numbers.  If he hadn't run out of money, he would have won CA handily.  Then the Dem convention would not have been a coronation for Kerry, because Clark would have had Oklahoma and California at least.  

            Oh, how I wish he could have held on two more weeks.

            He will be a great President.

            Sorceress Sarah

            It is no accident that Liberty and Liberal are the same word.

            by Sorceress Sarah on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:25:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Tears in my eyes, still, (none)
              when I think of what we were accomplishing here. Those were the days! Good to see your post, and all those here demonstrating the affection and respect Wes Clark continues to enjoy.

              It's early days for 2008, but there are groups springing up all over promoting his candidacy.

              Ellen Dana Nagler
              (formerly Chair, Santa Barbara for Clark)

              Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -- Henri Bergson

              by Ellen Dana Nagler on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 11:39:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Absolutely... (4.00)
            You're absolutely right, AWOL.  The Clark-should-have-campaigned-in-Iowa-bashers seem to forget that Clark was about to steal New Hampshire.  A poll dated January 16 in New Hampshire showed Dean at 30% (he had been at 42% weeks before), with Clark at 25%.  Of course his numbers went south after Iowa, but the results in Iowa were completely unforeseen.

            You have to look at the political landscape in October '03, not through a mirror.  In October, when the Clark campaign had to make a decision on Iowa, it was all Dean-Gephardt.  Kerry and Edwards were nowhere.  We Clarksters were content to let those two sully each other, ambush Dean in NH, and sweep the Super Seven states on friendlier terrain on February 3.  Just before Iowa, that strategy appeared to be working perfectly, according to the polls.  For example, on January 6, 2004, a CNN/Gallup/USA Today poll had Dean at 24% and Clark 20% nationally.  The ARG daily tracking poll in New Hampshire on the same date had Dean at 36% (down from a high of 42%), Clark at 16% (he had risen 8 points in about a week), and Kerry at 13% (where he was at 19% about a week before).  It was the first day that Clark was ahead of Kerry, and things looked rosy.

            Concurrently, Clark was leading in South Carolina and Oklahoma, and within the MOE in Arizona.  

            One final thing:  By February 10, when Clark finished third in Tennessee, no amount of money could have rescued the campaign.  The Kerry juggernaut from out of nowhere was at that time too powerful.

            Stan Davis
            Lakewood, CO

            If not us, who? If not now, when?
            BE THE CHANGE you want to see in the world. [Gandhi}

            by Stan81747 on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:06:17 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Putting on my tin foil hat (none)
              Can you say Skull & Bones???

              "The Kerry juggernaut from out of nowhere was at that time too powerful.

              Canadians care too...

              by jbalazs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:39:30 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  An update... (none)
              First a correction:  the ARG data above was from January 7, not January 6.  

              The ARG poll for January 8 looked even better:  Dean down another point to 35%, Clark up another two points to 18%, and Kerry down another point to 12%.  Clark's lead over Kerry was then outside of the margin of error.

              Now, also on January 8, SurveyUSA released a new Iowa poll with warning signs:  Over a month, Dean fell from 42 to 29%, Gephardt about flat from 23 to 22%, but Kerry up from 15-21% and Edwards up from 10 to 17%.

              Meanwhile, SurveyUSA's Tennessee poll showed Dean and Clark in a dead heat at 27 and 26% respectively, with "Other" third at 13%.  The other named candidates were in single digits, with Kerry and Edwards at 6% and 4%.

              In our euphoria over the ARG poll in New Hampshire, we may have missed the red flag.

              Stan Davis
              Lakewood, CO

              If not us, who? If not now, when?
              BE THE CHANGE you want to see in the world. [Gandhi}

              by Stan81747 on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:12:15 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  But Bob Graham practically handed over (none)
            his campaign staff to Clark. Remember on Larry King right after he dropped out he was asked who did he think would benfit the most and Graham looked straight into the camera and said "Wes Clark". Graham had boots on the ground in Iowa that would have greatly benefited Wes, but his campaign staff made a huge blunder by ignoring Iowans and thinking it wouldn't matter. They loved him there, judging by his performance at the Town Hall meeting I saw.
        •  Didn't start poorly, wasn't mulling run. (none)
          One is not factually correct and the other is your assumption which is also not correct but they are both related.

          The fact is he was not mulling a run and in fact it was a decision based on a late amd overwhelming flood of requests to enter the race.  It is my belief that during the time he was being floated as a candidate due to the succesful draft Clark movement more and more people looked into him and reached out to him via that movement in the hopes that he would run.

          As far as starting poorly that's not a fair treatment since his initial gaffe was invented by Adam Nagourney and repeated by the press and irresponsible bloggers.

          He came roaring out of the gate and the race was on to stop him.  Our loss.

      •  Good thing he wasn't nominated (3.50)
        since he took matching funds and therefore had no chance of beating Bush.  It became obvious quite early that any serious candidate had to turn down matching funds.  Dean and Kerry were the only ones to do so.  The rest were just vanity candidates and would have gotten crushed in the late primary season, outspent by 4-1 instead of at near parity.  Not that Kerry did such a good job with that cash.
      •  His problem (none)
        Nah, his problem is that he hired Chris Lehane.

        Axiom 1: Shrum employers will win the primary, but fizzle in the general.

        Axiom 2: Lehane employers will lose.

      •  I Liked Clark too. (none)
        I was rooting for Howard Dean and Wes Clark in that order.

        I wonder why the Dem 'Losership' did not make more out of 'Families First' tax plan that Wes promoted?  

        As a matter of fact, those who have long Kos memories will remember that the Clarkies gave me (in another Kos personna) a birthday gift on Jan 27th when Wes Clark's fundraising 'train' came in with $7 million bucks in the caboose.  

        Wes and Ho-Ho are still my favorite grassroots picks, but I am inclined to look favorably at Russ Feingold too.  We badly need a real progressive deficit hawk with respect for the rule of law to be our Dem nominee in 2008.  


        Lefty Limblog - It is time to WIN instead of "Appease and Cringe". Fight the Rethugs!

        by LeftyLimblog on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:57:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  A bit behind the curve -- (none)
      Clark has some interesting thoughts  on possible BushCo military plans for Syria and Iran.

      I and others have been commenting on this for at least a couple of years.  

      (Don't you think he should run for something before '08 to demonstrate that he can actually win an election instead of trying to start at the top again?)  

      •  Actually I do (4.00)
        I think Arkansas Governor in 06. But they tell me that's out.

        Oh by the way Marie, Clark was on this in 2002 - 7 in 5 -PNAC- all of it.

        You could look it up  . . .  

        I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

        by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:28:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why would that be "out?" (none)
          What other opportunities does he have?  Huckabee seems beatable.

          btw - highly unlikely that Clark will run in '08.  That race will have very different dynamics and the big bucks that fueled Clark will not be available for him.

          •  As for the bucks (none)
            Clark's a good fundraiser on his own now.

            As for the rest, you may be right. Time will tell.

            I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

            by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:03:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But why is the '06 AR (none)
              govenor race "out?"
              •  Dunno (none)
                If it is, I think it is a mistake.

                I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

                by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:55:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Because he isn't interested... (none)
                No other than Wes Clark, Jr. has said on DU that Gen. Clark isn't interested in being governor.

                It would be foolhardy to run for governor in '06 if he has any inkling of running for President in '08.  A loss would be devastating, and he would be perceived as not really wanting to execute the office if he won.  A gubernatorial race would all but preclude a Presidential bid in '08.

                Stan Davis
                Lakewood, CO

                If not us, who? If not now, when?
                BE THE CHANGE you want to see in the world. [Gandhi}

                by Stan81747 on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:16:56 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Clark will most likely run. (none)
            The dynamics will be relatively the same and in fact  Clark could be the only Democrat in country that could win the nomination if things continue to detriote at the current rapid pace in Iraq.  Both the war on terror and the occupation of Iraq will not be looking better then than they do now and odds are we may be invading our THIRD country (Iran or Syria) at that point.

            This eleciton was a single issue eleciton and there is nothing that says the next one will be about anything else.

            It's who makes you sleep better at night.  We missed it this time.  Hopefully we've learned a lesson.

            •  I agree absolutely (4.00)
              Clark is the only person who can out national-security the Republicans.  Therefore, he may be the only person who can win the general election(although Dean and Feingold have a shot, too, but for other reasons).  But Clark is our best hope, IMHO.
          •  Huckabee is term-limited he is OUT! hehe N/T (none)
      •  Behind the curve? He WAS the curve. (4.00)
        You may want to re-check when Clark started speaking out about PNAC and the neo-cons.
    •  Ahh, my man Wes... (4.00)
      why couldn't you have been your natural eloquent and authoritative self during the primary campaign??

      And as a follow-up, why can't our Senatorial delegation show some friggin' spine and stand up against this lowlife? Or at the very least, not pre-emptively cave on it like they did a few weeks ago when the nomination was announced?

    •  He might have actually won... (none)
      Unlike John Krappy.  

      In Britain they admit to having royalty. In the United States we pretend we don't have any, and then we elect them president.

      by Asak on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:51:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh please (4.00)
        I was a Clark supporter and as much I would like to think he was the right man for the job, he wouldn't have fared any better then John Kerry or any other Dem candidate nominated.
        •  Boooooooo (4.00)
          You may be right, but boooooooooooooo.

          I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

          by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:16:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am right (4.00)
            and you know it tooooooooooo
            •  Why are you so sure? (3.80)
              Clark has gotten better and better with this politics thing. Personally, I don't think he was as bad as all that to begin with; the press was arrogant and hostile--as stated above--as were some of the (primary) voters.

              But Bushco was most fearful of Clark.

              I live in (No VA) a very Republican neighborhood where there are more military types (particularly colonels!) than you can shake a stick at. Clark did better here in our open primary than he did anywhere else in the county. I was at the polls all day, and a lot of them stopped to talk to me about Clark. Diehard Republicans, every one, but worried about Iraq, etc. etc. so much so that they came out to vote for Clark.  

              Not a damned one of them voted for Kerry.

              Anyway, my man was great tonight. Clear and decisive and wonderfully articulate. And so much more presidential than the asswipe-in-charge for the next miserable four years.  

              •  9/11 (none)
                The election hinged on terrorism and Bush had the ace; any Democratic Party candidate was at a serious disadvantage.
                •  only (4.00)
                  if that democratic candidate played within the frame, and showed tacit acceptance of rethug dominance by refusing to call them out on their utter incompetance on those issues. they are strong only because we do not challenge them. we should have hung 911, tora bora, war profiteering, abu ghraib and the utter lack of WMDs around bush's neck like an albatross. by shying away from hitting hard until the debates, kerry gave him a pass, and thus strengthened bush.
                •  that is silly (none)
                  I too loved Clark.  But you think he would have neutralized the war or security issues?  Please.

                  Republicans had no problem efectively painting a war-hero with shrapnel in his leg as a wishy-washy, mealy-mouthed wuss, and a guy who went AWOL from the National Guard as Rambo.

                  They would have turned Clark into a disgraced, fired war criminal.  The press would them stoically report 'both sides' of the issue.

                  (And, if you want to tell me it was just Kerry's fault for not responding quick enough to swiftboat crapola, sorry, I don't buy it.  Him coming out and arguing that he was a hero, not a war criminal, would have been almost as bad, because then people would have accused him of arguing about it because he was hiding something, and the 'debate' would continue.  Until we figure out how to end the Right-wing dominance of political discussion, we are screwed.)  

                  •  Re: that is silly (none)
                    Republicans had no problem efectively painting a war-hero with shrapnel in his leg as a wishy-washy, mealy-mouthed wuss, and a guy who went AWOL from the National Guard as Rambo.

                    They would have turned Clark into a disgraced, fired war criminal.

                    I have no doubt they would have tried.  Setting aside the issue of how well we responded to the attack, however -- and I disagree with you on that -- there's one crucial difference.  

                    That argument is a much tougher sell with respect to Clark than Kerry, because Clark didn't become a war protestor after Vietnam, he didn't support a nuclear freeze in the 1980s, and he didn't oppose the first Gulf War.  None of this is to say that Kerry wasn't courageous while serving in Vietnam; but they are unwise as policy positions.

                    Furthermore, Clark successfully led a war.  If the Republicans wanted to suggest that "dive bombing from 35,000 feet" made Clark a "war criminal," then what the hell is plotting a land invasion of Iraq?  Fundamentally, war is not about dying for your country; it's about making the other bastard die for his.  The American people understand this intuitively.  The Republican argument would boil down to "you fought Kosovo too well."  Damn convincing argument, that.

                    Kerry vacillates.  Clark gets things done.  QED.

                    •  Excellent Point (none)
                      Clark also spoke out against the invasion of Iraq while every other DC politician was covering their ass.

                      Kerry's "I voted for it before I voted against it" hurt him considerably.

                      I volunteered for Clark.  Only politician I have volunteered for.  And I'd do it again.

              •  Clark was the easiest sell (none)
                He wasn't my top choice for President despite my affinity for him.  But, when it came down to the nuts and bolts, selling him to moderate republicans (who were mostly relatives of mine and did in the end come to abandon the republican party) was rather easy.  The people I talked to liked his tax plan - it was simple and it favored the poor and middle class.  The people I talked to liked his military past - people were/are pissed at Bush's Iraq folly.  I didn't even have to get to the other issues and people were sold.  
                •  an easy sell until they went to work on him (none)
                  The right-wing hate machine would smear and destroy anyone. The fact that many moderate Republicans thought highly of Clark before he became the sole target of the hate machine means exactly nothing.

                  A friend of mine told me that the woman who cuts her hair didn't vote for Kerry because of all kinds of crap she clearly got from Fox/Rush/Hannity. Then this woman says she really likes Obama, which gave my friend hope. My response was, let's see how much she likes Obama in 2012 when the hate machine spends six months assassinating his character.

              •  "Why are you so sure?" (none)
                Clark entered the race without a domestic platform. I love him as a candidate, but his apparatus was weak.
                •  Who cares? (none)
                  The race was all about terrorism and Iraq and national security.  This didn't matter in the least.  Kerry had a good domestic platform, he lost.  If the economy was worse, it would be an issue.  But the economy, while worse than the Clinton years, is not bad at all (compare the unemployment rate now to that of any time from the end of Nixon's term to the start of Clinton's).  And Bush et al have argued, rather logically, that the downturn was caused by a combination of the dotcom bust (which was overheating the economy), the Enronesque scandals, and the biggie, 9/11, so we are then back to national security again.
                •  platforms (none)
                  This platform thing is CRAP! Look, Bush didn't have a platform other than 9-11, 9-11, 9-11, fear, I'll protect you and you know where I stand. It's only the media that gets up in arms about a platform. The Bushies were calling Kerry about his platform in April and Edwards had one of the most detailed "platform" papers in years. It's all perception : smoke and mirrors. The Bushies are geniuses at turning a weakness into a strength (Bush is resolute not stubborn and ill informed) and a perceived strength into a weakness (purple hearts). Did 60 million Americans vote for hundreds more dead in Iraq, a falling dollar, a cut in SS benefits to the baby boomers. Nooooo. They voted out of fear but maybe that's a platform, I guess. Sorry for the rant--must get coffee.
              •  I Think You're Right About Clark-Fear (none)
                The Bush campaign mainly pushed war/terror and the election data, sans hype, say that that issue much more than 'values' was what made the difference.

                Now replace an a-articulate traitor swift boat captain with an articulate patriot general.

                I think Roveco had a lot to worry about Clark if there had been a Democratic machine to assemble.

                We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

                by Gooserock on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:23:11 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Check those exit polls. (none)
          And keep in mind that there was no established movement waiting in the wings to destroy him (Swiftboats).

          Exit polls show these were the top issues.  Nos. 1 and 2 are simply national security  --

          1. Iraq
          2. War on Terror
          3. Values
          4. Economy
        •  You are wrong (none)
          We lost on security and terrorism and Iraq issues (not gay marriage, not any of the other shit).  To the public, Kerry was a wishy washy, flip flopping, "I voted for the $87 million before I voted against it", pinko commie liberal weiner who would not protect us from the terrorists.  Clark has forgotten more about national security than Bush ever knew.

          Clark would have won easily.  He would have won Nevada, Florida, Ohio, Arkansas, Iowa, New Mexico, Colorado, and all the states Kerry won.

        •  I don't agree... (none)
          If it had come down to Ohio ,he would have won. Clark was doing well here-in my southeastern area he had the second largest group of supporters at our caucus behind Dean. Kerry only had 2 or 3 people in his group 1 year ago.It was all about security, guns,(the NRA)and being against liberal issues,and I don't think they would have had enough ammo to beat Clark here.
    •  Great interview (none)
      And front page worthy.  ;)

      If you like this comment, please visit It Affects You

      by up2date on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:08:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  excellent clip! (4.00)
      thanks for the link. did you see how as soon as matthews mentioned gonzalez, clark started shaking his head? quietly contempuous and unequivocal--that was a great up note to end the night on. for anyone who's in need of feeling a little more positive about our party, do watch the video.

      p.s. was he chuckling about the comedy that is matthews or just thinking about his ole horndog buddy bill clinton?

      The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. --Yeats

      by JaneKnowles on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:30:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks Armando for this diary (none)
      I caught the comment on Syria and was flipping and heard similar comments from Dobbins of the Rand Corporation andothers on PBS Newshourlast night.
      This is very disquieting...have you read or heard similar things from other sources specifically about Syria?

      The race is not always to the swift but to those who keep on running

      by ricardo4 on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:38:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  My good friend told me to read this ... (none)
      so now I put in my two cents...

      Clark is the MAN.
      He has it all, leadership, looks, intelligence, the stars. If you read his positions, he is more liberal than Dean. Conservative Dems, Moderate Republicans and even Conservative Repubs could have pulled the lever for Clark when they couldn't pull it for Kerry. Look at Oklahoma.

      We blew it when we let him get away. I for one hope he runs again in 2008. I was there in the DraftClark movement, there for his run, there when her created WesPac and hope to go to Little Rock for his convention in the summer. I will work my butt off for the man if he runs again.

      If we Dems are to take back the country, let alone the White House, we need a real leader like Wes Clark. IMHO. But then, I'm a true Blue Clarkie.

      It's the stupidity, stupid!

      by LuLu on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:32:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  thanks for the summary, armando (none)
      i've tuned out everything on msnbc except for olbermann since the election.

      i came to admire general clark during the primaries, and i'm so glad he's still out there telling the truth.

      "Democrats: Always standing up for what they later realise they should have believed in." -Jon Stewart, the Daily Show

      by anna on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:36:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  my man Wes (4.00)
      I was right there with you, Armando, in support for the General. Unassailable cred on security issues and (I became convinced) a true "stealth progressive" on domestic issues from education to tax reform. I was in policy-geek bliss when I actually saw that he had an "urban agenda" as part of his platform...

      But he wasn't ready to go last time, and if he'd survived his early strategic miscalculations (Iowa) and misstatements (Iraq) to win the nomination, he would have come under tremendous fire by the theoligarchs as "the man who nearly started WWIII".

      Next time, he'll be ready, I think. I hope he keeps his visibility up and really emerges as a Democratic spokesperson, doing a lot of campaigning in '06 and collecting political IOUs. A Clark/Feingold ticket would be a likely winner, IMO.

    •  Clark/Dean 08!! (none)
      Please please please please please!!!
  •  Yeah, I was lucky to catch the interview. (none)
  •  The other stuff he said was just as (4.00)
    important and maybe more.The possibility of this administration enlarging this conflict is real and thank god Clark had the balls to say it.

    This guy is no longer my state senator Don't get mad ,get local

    by ctkeith on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:02:58 PM PST

  •  Que juevos! (none)
    I still think he'll get the job, though. But, my dad always told me, "Give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves."

    Political Capital Card... the card that cares for you, so you don't have to!

    by Dood Abides on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:03:02 PM PST

    •  It is the only thing (none)
      a decent person can say IMO.

      How any Dem could vote for confirmation is beyond me.

      I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

      by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:04:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is really a no-win for us... (none)
        Draw some blood, rev up the base, confirm, move on...

        Hate to be so politically pragmatic, but we have to pick and choose out battles...I'm not sure this one is where we put all of our eggs, IMHO...

        I dunno, maybe it's just me....

        •  On moral grounds (4.00)
          do we have a choice? I don't, personally.

          All the snark that's fit liberal street fight

          by Joan McCarter on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:21:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  No choosing (4.00)
          Fight the battle, the win is that.  Win or lose.

          If you mean should we filibuster?  I dunno, but we MUST oppose.

          I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

          by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:24:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I dunno... (none)
            I think the point that needs to be driven home, at least from a political standpoint, is that this idiocy has endangered the well-being of our troops in this war and future wars...I'm sorry to be so pragmatic here, but if this comes off as a bunch of lefty liberals worry about the human rights of terrorists, that isn't good. Sorry, folks, but that's the truth right now. And until the revolution comes, everything needs to be viewed through a "how do we get back into power" filter...If you want to fight this, fight it on behalf of the troops...

            This could easily turn negative for us...Just keep your eyes open....

            •  that's always been the point to me (4.00)
              driven home by the senator (help me out with the name kossacks)whose son is in the military, who said (paraphrasing), "we need the geneva convenction to protect MY son!" i think everyone gets that volvo. we treat them like humans so that we get treated like humans too.

              The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. --Yeats

              by JaneKnowles on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:44:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Biden (4.00)

                I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

                by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:56:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  My first phone call (none)
         a US senator's office was a recent one to Joe Biden's office to thank him for speaking so loudly about the disaster that is the Iraq war.

                  (I'm Canadian).

                  I hope he runs in 2008. Oops, I think somewhere, iirc, we kind of decided we'd put off the '08 talk and I even agreed to that.

                  Bad, bad me!

                  •  I like Biden (none)
                    but he has too many ghosts from the speech debacle when he first ran.  Almost as bad of a move as Gary Hart and "the Monkey Business".
                  •  Biden is running for sure (none)
                    He's already basically announced.  It looks like our side will have:

                    Dean (assuming he doesn't get the DNC nod-some suggest his run is actually a feint to get another reformer in instead, like Simon Rosenberg)

                    Any of the last three would be very, very good.  Biden's ok, but I don't think will survive the primary.  Richardson is ok too, but nah.  Bayh is the Lieberman of 08.  Edwards and Kerry had thier shot and blew it, fuck em.

                    Now, thier side has:

                    Santorum (gag cough puke)

                    If McCain wins the primary we're fucked.  The last three are all from very blue states and are probably too liberal to win a Republican primary (let's vote Pataki and Romney out, kthxbye).  Santorum is awful, but could win, although it's probably Frist, who has a chance to be as boring as Bob Dole and probably just as successful.

                    I don't believe Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton are running.

        •  Totally Disagree (4.00)
          Democrats as a party can only gain by standing up for basic human rights. EVEN IF THEY KNOW THEY WILL LOSE, THEY MUST STILL FIGHT.

          If Democrats tolerate this, what won't they tolerate?

          Put all the damn eggs we have left in this basket, and  (as Marj Twain said) watch that basket!

          Seriously, who are we afraid of offending? Republicans? Or is it that all important 'torture moms' demographic?

          •  Mark Twain (4.00)
            I did not mean Marj Twain.

            Nothing against Marj Twain, I'm sure she has some pithy quotes too.

          •  sanfranciscoatheistleft agrees with you... (4.00)
            I have to agree...anything that touches the judiciary is worthy of us losing copious blood & treasure over. The right-wing judiciary is political WMD, and we have to fight the 4 years over it primarily.

            Yesterday we stood at the abyss; today we are taking a step forward.

            by peeder on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:33:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  to counter volvo even more (none)
            it's just like what the repubs did with their failed gay marriage ammendment. It was a tactical loss, but a strategic victory, cuz it put gay marriage squarely on the political map, and helped the states put up their ammendments.

            Opposing Gonzales is kind of like insurance against all the illegal gestapo shit he'll pull once there. If the dems create a logic for why he's wrong, then there will be a viable alternative already in voter's minds when their love of all things Bush & Gonzy start to fade.

            we must oppose this annointment.

            All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

            by SeanF on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 08:54:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  No Win Situation (none)
          Opposing the 1st Hispanic Attorney General nominee is not likely to be an electoral plus for Democrats. Some may get beyond that, but most won't.
          •  I think (4.00)
            if Democrats had a decent message machine operating, they would welcome charges of racism being levelled by Republicans so that they could proclaim form every rooftop,

            "We would love to confirm a Hispanic Attorney General, send us a candidate who is not a torturer!"

            •  Torturer, shmorturer. (none)
              I think this guy's a war criminal and if we can get ahold of the rumored executive order, Bush is one, too.

              "If hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue then compassionate conservatism is the policy hypocrisy uses to disguise economic vice." Kevin Phillips

              by hoosierspud on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:01:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  beat the set-up (4.00)
   using every voice possible with mind-numbing repetition to link this Gonzales with pictures of abuse in Iraq.

            Gonzales and his background is a classic Rove set up.  You're fucked wither way, he tells you, so just roll over and take it like a sissy.

            So, beat the set-up.  If you are damned either way, be damned to do the right thing, unintimidated.  But I say Beat the set-up by linking this guy to those pictures in the public's eye.

            But then again, i don't run DNC and I'm not a senate leader.  It's really up to them.

          •  Stop thinking electorally... (4.00)
            The Dems need to stand up for what's right, not what's popular, or they will never win again.  This political triangulation strategy has been a huge failure, it's time to start standing on principle.  

            The guy may be hispanic, but he's also an asshole.  Let's not let him get off because of some reverse racism in action.  

            In Britain they admit to having royalty. In the United States we pretend we don't have any, and then we elect them president.

            by Asak on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:53:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Fuck That (4.00)
            You may not realize, but I am Latino, and I can tell you opposing a coddler of torture will help with Latinos, not hurt.

            I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

            by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:54:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  oh okay (4.00)
              so then all that stuff i've been hearing about kos picking armando as a latino mafia powerplay is totally false??? hmph. sounds fishy to me.

              The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. --Yeats

              by JaneKnowles on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:02:12 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Latino Blog (4.00)
                Markos is one of us, as is Mrs. kos.

                I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

                by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:05:33 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  A plot! (none)
                  It finally comes out....

                  Anyway, just to add my two cents, I'm a San Francisco leftie and I liked Clark a lot.  I know he appealed to a lot of moderates in both parties.  He's sounding more and more confident and assured and hell, he did pretty well in the primaries for someone who'd never run before.  

                  I don't think there's anything wrong with Clark that he can't fix himself.  He's losing the golly gee reaction, pointing fingers, naming names, and taking on the big guys.  Um, he's not hard to look at for an older guy.  (I think I just made a sexist remark.  Oh well, the world owes me one).  Anyway, it would be great if he could get a governorship and get some poli cred.  Hopefully, he'll stay away from the senate.

                •  don't forget baby ari [nt] (none)
          •  Beltway Crap (none)
            Yep, just like women still aren't forgiving Republicans for going after the first female AG Janet Reno.

            Get out of DC. That's a beltway bullshit mindset and is much of the reason the party is up shit creek.

            Republicans know that come next election, no one besides people like us are going to even remember who the AG is, much less who voted for him.

          •  BS (none)
            I am not of Latin nor Hispanic descent.  However, I believe that the history of torture down in Central and South America is certainly well documented and tragically, the torturers in many of these cases were also of Latin/Hispanic descent.  Many Latinos/Hispanics fled terror regimes and in order to get to "safety" in this country.  

            Now, as Richard Cohen pointed out in today's WaPo, the Orwellian terror is here.  And the torturer is about to be made Attorney General.  He happens to be Hispanic/Latino.  Folks like Armando and Kos can comment from a Latino/Hispanic perspective, but it seems to me that many Latinos and Hispanics would understand this situation better than many Americans of other races and ethnicities.

          •  Latino opposition? (none)
            After Clarence Thomas was confirmed, Toni Morrison edited a book of essays titled "Race-ing Justice, En-gendering Power" with 19 essays by everyone from A. Leon Higgonbotham to Patricia Williams. Many had voiced objections before/during the hearings.

            Besides this lineup of generals, are there going to be/have there been objections from Latino community?

            If Obama is only the 5th African American senator ever, besides the 2 from my state (Inouye and Akaka) are there any other non-white senators? I don't hold out a lot of hope for these two. Sparky might've made a stink on this one, but I doubt the 2 Dans will.

            "I still think politics is about who's getting screwed and who's doing the screwing." -Molly Ivins

            by hono lulu on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 10:38:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Turn it back on them. (none)
            It's a shame that the Republicans could not come up with even one distinguished Hispanic jurist who doesn't support torture?

            We Democrats would certainly confirm [list of eminently qualified Hispanic attorneys/judges etc. for AG, none of whom have taken down their pants and taken a crap on the rule of law.]

            •  yah know, Kimberly (none)
              this is why I'm so depressed. The f-in dems have had so much amazing material. Like, how often in a g&^%-d&^% blue moon do you ever get to throw accusations like "torturer" at your opponent, and it be credible?

              Ah but not to worry - I'm sure those message geniuses at the DNC are hard at work on this.

              All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

              by SeanF on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:02:04 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  The battles we fight... (none)
               ...define who we are.

          The Republicans goad us with these outrageous nominations to wear down our resolve. But that's all the more reason to make sure our reps in Washington know that we expect them to stand fast against this crap.

          Any Democrat who votes to accept Gonzales should feel the pain in phone calls, faxes, and email.

          And those who oppose his sorry ass should be rewarded with much praise.

        •  Stand up! (none)
          Now is the time to stand up for what you believe in.  The Democrats hold no decisive power in DC, so all the battles are stacked against us.

          I draw the line at torture.  Gonzalez isn't fit to serve.

          And I follow Clark because he stood up in 2002 when everyone else was ducking for political cover.

    •  Problem is (none)
      how many people is this guy hanging (and various other unmentionable acts) before he hangs himself?
  •  i saw this diary (4.00)
    and i was like, armando needs to get his butt in here--he needs to meet this other kossak that loves clark as much as he does. but then i looked at who created the diary . . .

    all joking aside. i love hearing this kinda shit. how is it that are elected officials seem to have so little clue as to how hungry us dems are for this kind of language? and this is not a lefty thing. while i was visiting my family in fla, every single member--though in particular my parents--felt like the dems had lost the will to fight and needed to get back to their roots.

    i swear if just one senator stood up and said something substantially negative about this administration, i'd hear a collective roar of appreciation throughout this city the minute it was played on the nightly news (lol--and a dem showing some vim and vigor WOULD be big news!)

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. --Yeats

    by JaneKnowles on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:12:34 PM PST

    •  Dean was great (4.00)
      for telling it straight.  But because of the primaries and the perception that Clark was the anti-Dean it is hard for people to see that Clark is a pretty straight shooter himself.

      I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

      by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:23:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not at all (4.00)
        I don't want to spark an argument here but I always loved Dean and Clark.

        Some people looked at issues and where they stood on them.  I always maintained that, with Bush in the office, what counts in integrity, character, dignity.

        Clark, Dean and Mosely-Braun and Kucinich were the only ones like that (oh, yeah, and Bob Graham).  Of those, I felt that Dean and Clark were the only two who would have had a chance to beat Bush.  I still think either one might have had the chance and I would have been glad to vote for either.  Most Dean Democrats will admit that they like Clark.  However, it is unfortunate that the complement is not often returned.

        •  Not guilty (none)
          I always loved Dean.  Fact I was a Deaniac from 2/10 to 2/17.

          I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

          by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:32:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Not guilty. I gave $2K to Dean...then left on 9-17 (none)
          Which is the day Clark entered the race.  I supported Dean because he was right.  I moved to Clark's camp because he was right, had the credibility to back it up without being questioned and was the biggest threat to Bush.
          •  return the favor- (none)
            I have to say that yes, as a Clark supporter I find Deaniacs loving Clark.  Why it's not readily returned, Dr. Dean got a lil nasty with the General, and other candidates for that matter, past present and future.  + if you have any view not Dean like in the Dem community you get dasterdized by the Deaniacs.  Maybe their respect for Clark should also emmulate his actions....?  Integrity, politeness while being tactful....
            •  Don't get me started on this one (none)
              There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Dean or Clark conducted themselves during the nomination process.  What I find tiresome about some Clark supporters is that they have an inability to recognize that Dean was lambasted far worse by everyone BUT Clark and Mosely-Braun than he (Dean) ever dished out to any of them in return.

              I don't remember Dean organizing a 527 that made commercials denigrating any of the other candidates, do you?

              In addition, many of us Dean folks felt that he received particularly hard questions in the debates and was often questioned harshly, on television interviews at the time.

              We would like you Clark folks to admit that Dean was particularly singled out for oustracism and treated more unfairly than any of the other candidates.

              •  huh (none)
                Well maybe it's because of how strong he came off?  Don't get me wrong - I respect the Dean movement but on the otherside of the dem world it's a bit overwhelming and if you don't agree then you get growled at - I was intrigued by Dean at first then when I would read and listen to what he had to say I just couldn't see how he would win.  It's not that I don't agree with him it's the tact that was used.  It's all about how you frame your message.  Now if I agree with what he says but don't want to support him it should say something.  What turned me off?  How he framed his message and how we spoke to or about other people.  It wasn't the media it's what I heard from him, his own persona.
              •  Dean was the front runner (none)
                The heat he recieved was in appropriate proportion to the buzz he had created.

                If memory serves, there were more than a few trash talking Deaniacs proudly announcing the primaries over months before they began.  That was a bit much to listen to.

                As a Clarkie, I appreciated Clark for his challenge to Dean.  In the hallowed trash-talking halls of Kos if nowhere else.

      •  Armando (4.00)
        Is this the diary for Wes Clark supporters to stand up and be counted? If so, count me in.

        Well, Watson, we seem to have fallen upon evil days. -- Sherlock Holmes.

        by Carnacki on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:49:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  count me in too (none)
          i was a clark supporter from the second i heard he was running. i loved dean too, and i even felt jealous of all the more prominent deaniacs, and all the attention they got, but i had to go with my gut.

          keep speakin' the truth wesley!

        •  I love Wes Clark (4.00)
          He couldn't be clearer; drills right to the heart of the matter.

          Liked Dean too, but Clark was it from day one.

          Now, why didn't we nominate this guy?

        •  Count Me In TOO! (4.00)
          I consider Clark to be a great American, and our best chance to win the White House in 2008.  He is the best thing I've seen in politics since Bobby Kennedy.

          Voting rights are our most important rights because all the other ones depend on them

          by markusd on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:42:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  And me n/t (4.00)

          Democracy demands discussion, disagreement and dissent. - Wes Clark

          by djinniya on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 07:02:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Count me too... n/t (4.00)

          "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire: French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694-1778)

          by lobezno on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:11:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Me too. (none)
          My first dkos post I get to put in a good word or two for Wes Clark! I remember Armondo from the Clark blog.

          Supported him all the way, although I did disagree with some of his positions). He's always been outspoken in criticizing the Bush regime, so I'm not surprised he's against Gonzales. But I don't think the Dems will find any backbone and oppose this appointment.

        •  Why am a Clarkie? (none)
          Because of statements like this:

          "If Karl Rove is watching today, Karl, I want you to hear me loud and clear: I am going to provide tax cuts to ease the burdens for 31 million American families -- and lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty -- by raising the taxes on 0.1 percent of families -- those who make more than $1,000,000 a year. You don't have to read my lips, I'm saying it," Clark said.

          "And if that makes me an 'old-style' Democrat, then I accept that label with pride and I dare you to come after me for it."

          "This White House doesn't even know where the buck is." - Wes Clark

          by PeterSD on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 10:39:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  right here (none)
          Started out intrigued by Dean but questioned his chops.  Soon as I heard Clark was in, I volunteered hours and hours and hours and hours and STILL DO for the General.  GoWesGo
    •  The next guy to speak up (4.00)
      is our leader. Clark is our leader of the day, at least.
  •  I would love for the General to run again (4.00)
    in 2008. I don't blame him for his disappointing show in 2004. The man knew nothing about running a campaign and he was at the mercy of others to tell him what to do. Obviously they made some awful decisions. I think if he ran in Iowa, he would have come out the winner instead of Kerry.

    Seeing him on Hardball ripping shrub a new one put a smile on my face I desperately needed. God bless you General Clark!

  • A Democrat will be the 44th President of the United States
  • by ZT155 on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:17:47 PM PST

  •  I'll trot this out any chance I get (4.00)
    The Senate Judiciary Committee list, unfortunately from the last Congress. Haven't able to figure out who's replacing Edwards from our side of the aisle. Do know that they added (and this makes me ill) Coburn and Brownback on the R side of the equation. Leahy has also started putting on some more public pressure by releasing a letter in which he asked Gonzales to release to the committee key documents.

    "I am disappointed that contrary to your promises to me to engage in an open exchange and to answer my questions in connection with your confirmation process, you have not answered my letters," Leahy wrote. He said the withheld material is "relevant to your nomination."

    Among the documents are the final version of Gonzales's Jan. 25, 2002, draft memo that said Geneva Convention protections for war prisoners don't apply to Taliban fighters detained in Afghanistan or suspected al-Qaeda operatives seized worldwide. The White House, citing "longstanding practice," refused last month to provide the memo, Leahy said.

    Not to distract or detract from your man, Armando. Just some more news.

    All the snark that's fit liberal street fight

    by Joan McCarter on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:20:42 PM PST

  •  he threw it down (4.00)
    Clark has officially begun his 08 campaign.

    He came out on Hardball tonight and threw down.

    If an 04 democratic candidate spoke with clarity and go-fuck-yourself confidence that he had tonight, we'd all be counting down till Jan 20.

    Gotta admit, I thought the guy was sincere but really green in the primaries, but in the course of ten minutes he slung his sack on the table and said fuck Gonzales and I'll testify against him, fuck Bush's war plan, and fuck Bush again for leaving Jimmy Carter out of this storm relief shit.

    Pardon my profanity, but you understand it isn't often a democratic candidate tells it like it is without fear of a GOP beating him down.

    The most intriguing part of this was when he stated how he is hearing whispers that Bushteam is planning on Syria and Iran next.  And he related how in 02 he was telling everyone he was getting whispers about Iraq.

    Go wes.

  •  I wish I'd seen it (4.00)
    Good for Clark!  The man oozes brilliance and integrity.  I miss him and the other Democratic candidates.  
  •  And yeah (4.00)
    I'm handing out 4s like candy, A Clark C&J.

    I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

    by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:29:22 PM PST

  •  Generals against Bush/Gonzales torture policy (4.00)
    Clark, Shalikashvili, etc., should be given a chance to tell the Senate Judiciary Committee how the Bush/Gonzales torture policy DOES NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

    Sorry for shouting, but the whole yellow-ribbon, support the troops = support of Bush's Bad War = those who don't are traitors thing pisses me off.

    I, and most Dems, support the troops; we want them home yesterday.

    Besides the fact it's illegal, the Bush/Gonzales torture policy endangers US soldiers who will fall into Iraqi/Afghani insurgents' hands. And the generals can tell that story better than anyone.

    Gonzales may not be worth a filibuster, but then there was a time (a day or two, anyway) when Kerik was considered a lock.

    And look what happened to him, with a little basic oppo research that somehow made it into the M$M.

    The most important election of everyone's lifetime.

    by devtob on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:39:31 PM PST

  •  Love Clark (4.00)
    Always have..always will...He is the best General around and we are lucky to have him. He will come in very handy in the years to come, what with Bush and his Wars. If things keep up the way they are, the American people will not care about Repub or Dem. They will want and trust a Good General to help get us out of the shit that the Worst President in the history of the United States has gotten us into. All he needs is a little grooming and a good partner.  

    educate 'em when they're young

    by Chamonix on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:40:57 PM PST

  •  Will John Kerry oppose Gonzales' nomination? (none)
    I doubt it. If Kerry does, I will praise him, but I expect him to be gutless and rollover. I know we can count on Ted Kennedy to do the right thing and oppose, but Kerry, I'm not so sure.
  •  The grapevine here (none)
    in AR is that Mike Beebe will be the Dem candidate for governor next year, but I kinda wish Clark would run for that.  There are other ways he can get visibility in the meantime though, as he did tonight.  I was thinking about him when the DNC chair discussion was going about which candidate would chat online.  General Clark did this a few times by answering questions during a planned online appearance.  And he and Gert interacted a lot with the peeps from the website when they met them out on the campaign trail.  

    The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

    by mikepridmore on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 08:48:58 PM PST

  •  Thanks for the report... (4.00)
    which brought me out of my post 2004 funk, at least for a few minutes.  I'm ready to support him again for another go in 2008.  
  •  I was chickenshit... (4.00)
    I didn't get into his campaign whole hog last time, only helping with DraftClark and some donations.

    But by God if the man runs again, I'll be at his doorstep in a heartbeat.

    Glad to see him...he'd been a little hard to find lately.

  •  The money quote (4.00)
    "We can't win a war on terror by giving up everything we stand for" (or words to that effect)
  •  Get'em on TV (4.00)
    What ever happend to good ole' rapid-response TV ads? We've got a few big names who wear big uniforms who happen to agree on something. Off the top of my head, we've got the Army's first female three-star general (Kennedy), a Joint Chiefs Chairman (Shalikashvili), an Army COS (Shinseki), and the second-most decorated soldier in history (Clark).

    Why not get the four of them together in one room, roll a camera, and have each give a soundbite about why nominating Geneva Al would be a bad idea. Don't have them talk about being obstructionist, don't have them talk about who they should nominate, don't have them mention the work the Democratic party is doing - ideally, the words "Democratic Party" should be nowhere near this ad (mainly because I don't think any of them would do it if it was at all a political ad). Just get the four of them up there, remind the country "we're at war" (maybe even using a GWB clip), and have each one say that nominating him would be bad for Our Soldiers In Uniform.

    The ad just slams Gonzales - we then get Reid, Durbin, et al on the talk shows to go on about how the Dems would love to nominate a Hispanic AG, just not one who hurts our troops like Gonzales.

  •  Top of the Recommendeds? (4.00)
    A Clark Diary?  My oh my how times have changed.  Heh.

    I'm thinkin', I'm thinkin'

    by Armando on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 09:25:02 PM PST

  •  good for him (4.00)
    clark gets what dean said not so long ago, that if we don't fight now, there's no point in talking about 2008. this is the first of a series of fights that we must join with everything we have. win or lose, we need to make each one of these hearings, votes, etc. as teaching moments.

    on torture, you are either for or against america.

  •  Clark isn't a democrat... (none)
    ...he's something more. A Leader. I just watched the video of him on Hardball and with regard to Gonazales, I don't think he could get, "Nope!" out there fast enough.

    The DLC had better get to him. Doesn't he know when asked a direct question he is supposed to respond by saying, "Well, it's possible...depending on...could be, but you have to give the benefit of the doubt..."

    BTW, what was with Matthews sucking up to Clinton? Was he trying to admit that Bush is the biggest screw-up in history without saying it?

    As for the going after Syria and Iran, the Air Force has the resources for sure, but without ground troops or NATO support, I don't see the point. Because if we do anything in either of those countries, it isn't going to be like Bosnia was. I know Wes said he thought it would be a bad idea too (Well understated ;) , but I don't think Iran is really all that worried right now, as bogged down as the U.S. is in Iraq.

    Besides, based on the latest IAEA news, isn't Egypt next? Oh wait, they don't have much oil there, do they. You see it's only really dangerous if the oil seeps into the WMD's ;) In fact, that's what probably happened to the WMD's in Iraq, they were absorbed by the oil, er, no wait they went to Syria (Invade Syria) er, no they went to Iran (Invade Iran), er, no they went to (hey, what's that knock on the door.....

    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. -Tom Paine

    by Alumbrados on Tue Jan 04, 2005 at 11:45:56 PM PST

  •  If Clark keeps it up... (none)
    Leave me a seat on the bandwagon. I was a Kerry guy from the begining this time around, but I sure like a General who will not shy away from the right battles.

    "We have already failed. Staying in longer makes us fail worse." -Three star Lt. General William Odom (retired), former head of National Security Agency

    by FightOn on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:19:15 AM PST

  •  Wohoo Clark! Way to go! Take down this evildoer! (none)
  •  survived to fight (none)
    I was Dean and Clark when I first got here. A schizophrenic donator.

    In hindsight, I'm glad Clark survived. Whether because of the voters' willful ignorance, Roves smears, or fraud, seems to me now this last election was a just a bloodbath. Not sure any candidate could have won. So I am glad Clark survived and is a clear voice now.

    The video was great. Hope he runs. He is as truthful and articulate as ever and seems to have learn greater ease. Hell, he's like-able!

  •  He's my guy, too. (none)
    And he should be point man on Gonzales. All he has to say is that Gonzales is not for upholding international law, putting our soldiers at risk, now and in the future. The Dems need to speak with one voice on this and this should be the only talking point.
  •  You know... (none)
    Maybe it wasn't such a bright idea for me to allow our 4clark web domain to expire.

    I think I'll go pick that up again and hold on to it for a few more years... just in case, ya know. :-)

    Thanks Armando for pointing that out.  I went back to basic cable, and as such while I get CNN I do not get MSNBC and in a way miss Hardball.

    "If any question why we died, Tell them, because our fathers lied." - Rudyard Kipling, 1918

    by Steve4Clark on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:31:49 AM PST

  •  When you can do good, you should (4.00)

    "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. You will choose whether we, too, will kill in the name of God, or whether in His name, we can find a higher civilization and a better means of settling our differences"
    -- General Wesley Clark, Seton Hall address

    I got to vote for him in the primaries at least!

    "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." --Thomas Paine

    by BOHICA on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:44:56 AM PST

  •  2008 (none)
    Clark/Dean in 2008 would probably give us 16years to clean up the mess - don't know if that would be enough time.
  •  One of my favorite Clark moments (4.00)
    I'll beat the shit out of them, MP3 of comment to supporter in NH.
    "He meant to say, I'll beat the living shit out of them"
    Clark spokesman

    "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." --Thomas Paine

    by BOHICA on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 07:13:34 AM PST

  •  Clark is awesome (none)
    and he tells it like it is, as does Dean. I think either one would have been a better opponent for Bush then Kerry, who seemed unwilling to tackle the issues head on and get down and dirty. And by down and dirty I mean simply telling the truth about this god awful administration and its innumerable miserable failures.

    Damnit I'm still in a funk about Bush winning.  WTF

  •  Gen Clark was great (with my questions) (none)
    I was impressed with his very direct, succinct and clear responses.  He nailed the points about the Geneva Convention (not just that it's morally correct, but that it protects OUR soldiers).

    He's a wonderful spokesperson for us on these issues


    1. why in the world would he want to be Gov of Arkansas?  He's not an executive type.  His aspirations are clearly not in running a government but in providing higher level leadership

    2. he used to be a Republican in recent memory, right?  I'd like to hear him speak as forcefully, progressively and knowledgeably about domestic issues as he does on military ones before I leap on his bandwagon

    3. he really hasn't been through the flames of the inevitable RWCM and Rethug dungmachines, so we don't know what, if anything, lurks to trip him up.  We never thought Kerry was vulnerable to an attack on his war heroism, did we?

    I certainly have an open mind; there is Gen. Eisenhower as a model for a military leader who became president.  And there are lots of down-sides to looking at the current crop of dull Govs and Sens.


  •  Is it just me.... (none)
    or is Wes Clark so mellow that you can't imagine him being outraged at anything?

    Outside the box solutions at low, low prices!

    by Jonathan4Dean on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:36:56 AM PST

  •  If people were so goddamn (4.00)
    concerned about the Dem nominee being "electable", why didn't they vote for Clark?

    Sigh... What could have been.

    Clark/Dean = electability + grassroots = A profound Bush ass kicking.

    I hope Clark runs again in 2008

  •  (slaps head) (none)
    I'm an idiot. How could I forget Salazar. I hate to see pressure put on newbie Senators like Salazar and Obama, but it will be interesting to see what Salazar will do.

    "I still think politics is about who's getting screwed and who's doing the screwing." -Molly Ivins

    by hono lulu on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 10:09:01 AM PST

  •  He signed my tie... (none)
    I got to sit next to Gert, and met the General when he came to Green Bay, and he signed my red tie.  

    I think America blew it when they passed on his candidacy.  I was proud to work for him and hope for another chance to do so again.

    In the end, like all good Clarkies, I pounded the pavement for Kerry(&Feingold).

    Here's to Clark/Feingold 08'

  •  Clark, how I love thee (none)
    I actually was a Dean person right out of the gate (still am), but every time I saw Clark, my admiration for him grew. I remember watching a stupid town hall meeting on CNN with CLark, and who I now know as Kerik. Kerik barely could get out a full sentence, and it was ALWAYS republican talking points-no matter what the question was.  Clark would actually LISTEN to the person asking the question, and answer...HONESTLY.  While McCain was getting all the accolades for being a "straight shooter", it was Clark who deserved that label from the start.  In my dreams, it'd be Dean/Clark in 08.

    Your silence will not protect you.

    by SairaLV on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 11:46:28 AM PST

  •  Clark, how I love thee (none)
    I actually was a Dean person right out of the gate (still am), but every time I saw Clark, my admiration for him grew. I remember watching a stupid town hall meeting on CNN with CLark, and who I now know as Kerik. Kerik barely could get out a full sentence, and it was ALWAYS republican talking points-no matter what the question was.  Clark would actually LISTEN to the person asking the question, and answer...HONESTLY.  While McCain was getting all the accolades for being a "straight shooter", it was Clark who deserved that label from the start.  In my dreams, it'd be Dean/Clark in 08.

    Your silence will not protect you.

    by SairaLV on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 11:48:28 AM PST

  •  Thanks for sharing this! (none)
    I totally missed it, I'm a left coaster and had a busy day yesterday.  Dem's need more good people like Wes Clark to keep the conversation going!
  •  LOVE Wes Clark! (none)
    Was an early Clark supporter, gave much time, much $ even though I did not & still don't have any.  The minute he's out of the gate, he can have it all over again.  Oh, & I will also contribute to WesPac a little later (right now I'm giving to tsunami victims & our troops).
  • Close


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