I have been researching the Bush military documents ever since they came out.
The CBS Killian documents and the resultant scandal have given much to look at.
The documents have never been proven forged by ANY federal agency, only by conservative bloggers. The complete lack of a federal investigation is noteworthy because these are important federal documents (although the Bush people continue to deny it) and their forgery is a serious federal crime.
continued below
The death of this story has left many many questions unanswered, about all aspects of it.
In the our continual quest to spread enlightenment about Bush's pusilanimous military career we are providing answers to the conservitve talking points, complete with references
We urge all reading this to write their representatives demanding a full federal investigation of these allegedly forged federal documents.
(Conservative numbered allegations are taken from :
http://www.freerepublic.com/~mabelkitty/ )
1. proportional spacing not generally available (no confirmation this type of technology was available at TANG)
Yes it was, you can see a good example right here: http://www.glcq.com/docs/(71-02-19)recognition_memo.pdf
Dated a year BEFORE the first Killian Memo
2. CBS admits that it does not have the originals, but only original documents can be proven to be real; copies can never be authenticated positively...repeat: only original documents can be proven real. CBS never had the originals, so CBS knew that it was publishing something that couldn't be assured of authenticity
The Memos and the chain of events can be easily verified or denied by the major participants still living, which they have not done credibly or affirmatively, George Bush in particular. Bush was indisputably there when these events occurred and the other direct participants--then col Bobby Hodges and then-major Rufus Martin--have direct knowledge of the events and handled the original orders for suspension from Killian. All 3 of these people saw the real orders for the order to Bush to take his physical and the suspension orders and if they categorically deny that these presented are the real ones, then an federal investigation should be done immediately by the Inspetor Generals of the Deoartment of Defance and USAF, and their investigative agencies to determine if they are forgeries and who is responsible for them.
3. superscripts not generally available
Backup supporting data for this? Let this be settled in an official investigation!
4, 5, 6,
same answer as 3
7. The blurriness of the copy indicates it was recopied dozens of times, common tactic of forgers (confirmed by CBS).
This is not any kind of disproof. The fact that these have been copied does not discount their veracity. These documents can easily be confirmed or denied by the major participants but as yet have not been.. They offer a credible narrative to a paper trail intentionally jumbled by Bush. Two of them had to be written as supporting paperwork indicates. Why is there no discussion of the content?
8. Signature block. Typical authentic military signature block has name, then rank, then on the next line the person's position. This just has rank beneath the name.
All the documents are signed or initialed yet there is no call for comparison of signatiures--why not? Killian's signature is on many of Bush's other papers and could be compared easily by the USAF who has the facilities to do so. Why is there no call for a federal investigation??
9--12
Same Answer as 3. Who is saying all this stuff? They sure cite no experts themselves. The only relevant information should be provided by the main participants.
13. Signature looks faked, and is cut at the very end of the last letter rather than a fade when pressure would have been released.
A very subjective judgement. They look real to the average eye and experts have vouched for them.--very curious. Who is saying this? The signatures look remarkably similar to me. That's why there's no call to have them investigated.
14. No errors and whiteout (CBS used copies)
And to WHOM did you say we can attribute this?
15. No letterhead
There is indeed letterhead typed on 3 of the documents--that's what makes them official, along with the official content. Killian signing them as Bush's military commander, concerning military business makes them FEDERAL federal documents.
16-19
Same answer as #3: This needs to be investigated by responsible authorities--where do these "typewriter experts" come from?
20. 5000 Longmont #8 in Houston Tx. does not exist (actually does exist, but Mr. Bush had already moved TWICE from this address at the time the memo was written. Also, since CBS claimed to have copies, redacted address would not have been visible. It obviously is).
5000 Longmont was the address Bush used in most of his papers at this time. It was his home of record. http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-5_2004_Personnel_File.pdf document #5
example: http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-3_2004_Personnel_File.pdf documents #21-22,
http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-2_2004_Personnel_File.pdf document 13, 24
21. Box 34567 is suspicious, at best. This would not be used on correspondence, but rather forms. The current use of the po box 34567 is Ashland Chemical Company, A Division of Ashland Oil, Incorporated P. O. Box 34567 Houston (this has been confirmed by the Pentagon, per James Rosen on Fox News)
Bush himself uses this address in referring to Col Killian in his 2d request for transfer: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc2.gif
This answer is suspicious at best. Who pumps this stuff out? Bush himself used the address just as Killian wrote it, it must have been in common usage.
22. It would have been nearly impossible to center a letterhead with proportional spacing without a computer (not impossible, but for Killian, who did not type, improbable).
Killian typed. Who said he didn't? there must be hundreds of documents that he typed. The USAF IG and OSI are the one's that should be saying this with such finality not conservative bloggers. The complete lack of a denial by George Bush and the complete lack if a federal investigation says that the Bush Administration does not intend to pursue this further , although forgery of these papers is an obvious federal crime and they LIBEL George Buh and other USAF (ANG) officers.
23. Bush's grade would be abbreviated "1/Lt" not "1st Lt"
Bush's grade of "1st Lt" is listed just that way on too many papers to count. Here's 6 examples:
US Reserve Personnell card: http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-2_2004_Personnel_File.pdf
Document # 1
Same reference document #20
Same reference document #26
Same reference document #32--Maj Rufus Martin refers to Bush as 1st Lt 9/13/73
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/grounded.gif 1st Lt Bush's suspension confirmation from ARPC
http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-4_2004_Personnel_File.pdf
document #11: Bobby Hodges confirmation of Killian's suspension of Bush, also signed by Rufus Martin
24. Subject matter bizarre
Subject matter is entirely believable and relevant when considered against all the known facts. Killian's Memos only illuminate known events, not create new ones. They are entirely credible, with an insider's understanding of the events. Other participants in these events are still living and have not denied that these events happened. What is the alternate version?
25. Air Force did not use street addresses for their offices, rather HQ AFLC/CC, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433.
Yes they did!
26. Kerning was not available
Yes it was!
27. In the August 18, 1973 memo, Jerry Killian purportedly writes: "Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush. I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job." but General Staudt, who thought very highly of Lt. Bush, retired in 1972.
There's every reason to think that Staudt was still influential in the Guard and was taking a big interest in Bush's career. Staudt was still going to Ellington AFB daioly because of employment as a civilian pilot for Conoco, based at Ellington. Staudt had taken an extraordinary interest in Bush's career from the beginning, even going so far as to stage a 2d swearing in ceremony so that he could be photographed swearing Bush in for the newspapers. This memo and its contents should be explained by the major participants, or , if denied, should be investigated by the FBI and the military authorities.
28. Language not generally used by military personnel
It sounds just like authentic militaryspeak to me and I spent 3 years in the military. This sequence of events: Killian's order to Bush to take his physical, Bush having to explain why he disobeyed that order and Killian's suspension of Bush for refusing to take his physical had to happen that way, the participants have not denied it and all the remaining paperwork supports it.
Who gave this opinion?
29. Not signed or initialed by author, typist, or clerk.
Three of them are signed--the order to Bush to take his physical, the Aug 1st suspension order and the memo to the unknown entity concerning the OETR. Full signatures for easy comparison with other Killian signatures which are readily available throughout Bush's documents. The FBI could authenticatre the signatures like no one else and if they are forged, this is evidence of a serious federal crime.
30. Not in any format that a military person would use, e.g. orders not given by Memo.
They would if they were trying to hush something up. There are many examples of irregularities in the paperwork. For instance Rufus Martin certified that Bush had satisfactorily completed his service in the 111th. But Killian and harris in the final OETR said that Bush had not been observed that entire period. What contrary information and from whom did Martin get the information, if it existed?
31. Is the document original or a copy of an original? Why all the background noise such as black marks and a series of repeated dots (as if run through a Xerox).(Rather explained his document was a photocopy-brings up additional questions of how redacted black address was visible from a several generation copy)
An entire nonseqiter. What does it matter? More smoke and mirrors. Why not ask Bush, Rufus Martin and Bobby Hodges is they are real? They indisputably saw the real documents and their direct denial of these , only after viewing them, is enough evidence of a serious federal crime to launch a federal investigation. Why has this not been done?
32. The Killiam family rejected these documents as forgeries. Then where did the "personal files" come from if not the family?
Again this is no proof at all.If the Killian family looked at the documents and declared them forged why wasn't a federal investigation launched immediately? Forgery of federal documents is a federal crime!
33. Why no three hole punches evident at the top of the page?
Yeah and why no Happy Faces stickers? I don't see 3 hole punches on any of the other documents
34. Mr. Bush would have had automatic physical scheduled for his Birthday - in July! He would not have received correspondence
NO he wouldn't have had an automatic physical scheduled for his birthday.Killian had advance notice that Bush had problems with his upcoming flight certifications--that's the significance of the first Killian Memo to Harris asking for an update on Bush and Bath, both of whom were later suspended for refusing to take their flight physicals. None of this is "correspondence" to Bush, it is evidence of direct contact with Bush concerning his dereliction of duty: failing to take his physical after being ordered to do so. Killian delivered his signed orders to Bush face to face, Bush sigened for them then passed them up the chain of command.
There was a time factor involved. Bush's superiors had to get Bush out of their unit by the time his physical was due (birthday, July 6th) or automatic procedures against Bush would have had to take place. Their scheme was to get him out of the unit where they could disclaim all future knowledge of him. That is exactly what they did: got him transferred (possibly illegally) to Alabama.
Killian DID order Bush to take his physical--Bush has not denied this under direct questioning. May 1st is the beginning of The Lost Six Months--From Apr 16th, 1972 to October 28th when not only is there no record of Bush participating in his unit, there's nothing in his pay records for this time either.
35. Why is the redacted address of Longmont #8 visible beneath the black mark? This would have been impossible after one copy, but it would be visible if the document was scanned.
More smoke and mirrors. Why hasn't the Federal government investigated this if these are forged?
36. Why were these exact same documents available for sale on the Internet y Marty Heldt, of leftist web site Tom Paine, as early as January 2004? Is this where CBS obtained their copies? (See thread dated 9/10/2004 titled Breaking Hannity regarding source who is going to be revealed. Post 300 starts chain thread of Marty and his memo pimping very early on).
Subjective invective. Can we see this claim substantiated?
37. Acronym should be OER, not ORET.
The Acronym Killian uses is actually OETR Officers Effectiveness Training Report, not ORET, which is consistent, logical and commonly used
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-09-09bushdocs.pdf
38. Last line of document 4 "Austin will not be pleased with this" is not in the same font and has been added!
Who is saying this? This is a job for the FBI !!
39. Handwriting experts are not document experts - apples and oranges.
This whole statement is a nonsequiter to the discussion. Killian's signature can and must be confirmed or denied by the appropriate officials, i.e. the federal authorities who can also conduct an investigation into the complete circumstances.
41. The forged documents had no initials from a clerk
They were trying to cover up Bush's suspension and to get him out of Dodge, figuratively, while keeping him on the records of the 111th as a pilot and paying him as a pilot. They would have wanted as few people as possible to know about this. A complete investigation needs to be done by the FBI, the Air Force and by the media.
42. There was no CC list (needed for orders)
There's no CC on many of Bush's documents. That is one of the things that make them suspicious.
Example: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc2.gif Bush is obviously going outside of the chain of command to get this his 2d request for transfer approved. Notice the first name basis, the complete lack of any military protocol on this--it's a first name basis note, NOT and official military request sent through channels like his first request (which was turned down by higher authority.) Notice Bush's use of the address PO Box 34567 for Col Killian
43. Subject line in memos was normally CAPITALIZED in the military 44. The forged documents used incorrect terminology ("physical examination" instead of "medical")
There's no ironclad terminology prescribed under the UCMJ. Killian wrote this memo formalizing his verbal orders to Bush--these orders were meant to be read by his superiors and acted upon. He describes exactly what he means in a military manner. Bush, Hodges and Martin have seen his real written orders concerning this incident yet for some reason they want the world to think these are private documents.
45. There was no "receipt confirmation box" (required for orders)
One of the big mysteries here is: Did George Bush sign for these orders or not? Bush WAS suspended on Aug 1st, 1972 by Killian according to records posted by Bush. BUsh was required to sign for them: "...the unit personnel record copy of an aeronautical order which....imposes or revokes a suspension...will be acknowledged by the person concerned to indicate time and date of receipt of orders..." [AFM35-13 para 2-10b2 http://www.glcq.com/regs/35-13_1971.pdf ]
Bush should be the one to ask--and the one to answer. How does he describe the exact chain of circumstances of these events entailed in these--and all--his documents? That he refused to take his physical, was ordered to do so but did not and was suspended for not doing so. Let Bush himself provide a narrative--which he never has. And let Hodges and Martin agree on it. Or launch a federal investigation.
46--48
Again, this should be resolved by an official federal investigation, not by conservative bloggers. Who makes these statements? Anonymous experts?
49. Bush joins the Guard in May 1968. Barnes becomes Lt. Gov. in 1969 and at that official capacity helps Bush get into the TexANG. If Bush is already in the Guard how does Barnes help to get him further into the guard
Barnes was Speaker of the Texas House in 1968 and it was under that capacity that he helped Bush get into the National Guard to evade the draft. Barnes has testified under oath as to his participation in this and has never been refuted by anyone under oath. Bush and his father deny asking for special help in this and they are right--Bush 41 longtime crony, the late Sid Adger, is on record as asking for it. Regardless of whether they asked for it, they took advantage of it.
Bush likes to represent that he just showed up at the right place at the right time luckily but the paperwork shows that, being a completely unqualified history grad with a mediocre GPA and no ROTC experience at all, with an arrest record he had to get waivered, he was jumped over an estimated 500 guys to get his coveted pilots job.
50. The manual cited in the first forged document on line 2 of the first point #1 of "AFM 35-13" doesn't exist. That line of text reads: "to conduct annual physical examination (flight) IAW AFM 35-13". "IAW" means "In Accordance With" and "AFM 35-13" would mean Air Force Manual 35-13". There is no such Air Force Manual 35-13.
This is a lie: [Here it is: http://www.glcq.com/regs/35-13_1971.pdf ] Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13: "When a Rated Officer Fails To Accomplish a Medical Examination Prescribed by AFM 160-1 [emphasis added] ...(1)The local commander who has authority to convene a Flying Evaluation Board will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination. After reviewing the findings of the investigation, the local commander may convene a Flying Evaluation Board or forward through command channels a detailed report of the circumstances which resulted in the officer's failure to accomplish a medical examination, along with a recommendation that the suspension be removed. (2) The individual's major command will forward the report along with the command recommendation to USAFMPC/DPMAJD, Randolph AFB TX 78148 for final determination."
The references to AFM 35-13 and its different aspects are all over the confirming documents to Bush's suspension, both Hodges and Martin's approval dated Sep5th, 1972 and the confirmation from ARPC dated Sep 29th, 1972. This is the reference to investigative board proceeding that should have followed Bush's suspension but apparently did not. His superiors were derelict in their duty for not following the proper procedures.
References:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-4_2004_Personnel_File.pdf document #11
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/grounded.gif
51. Retired Maj. General Hodges, Killian's supervisor at the Guard, tells ABC News that he feels CBS misled him about the documents. CBS told him the documents were "handwritten" and after CBS read him excerpts, he said "well, if he wrote them, that's what he felt."
If this is a direct quote from Hodges he is lying. He knows that the order to take the physical and the Aug 1st suspension order from Killian are real or has seen the real ones--he HAD to, he read them and forwarded them up the chain of command as evident by : http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-4_2004_Personnel_File.pdf document #11
Both Hodges and Martin saw Killian's orders that were passed up the chain, they are doing just that in the above given document.
52. Hodges also said he did not see the documents in the 70s and he cannot authenticate the documents or the contents. His personal belief is that the documents have been "computer generated" and are a "fraud".
This is another lie: Hodges can verify these papers easily--he saw the real suspension order dated 1Aug 72--he verified them and pased them up the chain of command as his confirmation document dated 9/5/72 proves (so did Rufus Martin)Hodges refused to look at the documents to verify them, he said he was going by the Killian family's denunciation of them. Why did Killian refuse to look at them? Why did Bush refuse to comment on them?
Hodges can't say that he didn't see Killian's original real orders for the suspension, he signed off on them in the document give above.