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The author for the Swift Boat Liars is at it again. Jerome Corsi, co-author of the slimy smear-piece Unfit for Command is setting his sights on Congressional Democrats, accusing them of taking money form the Iranians, and somehow helping them develop nuclear weapons -in short, treason.

These outrageous accusations aren't being taken sitting down by the targets of this book. In the latest showing of Democratic spine, several high profile senators, presumably targets of the hit-piece to be released next month, offered scathing indictments of the book and its author.

Kerry spokesman David Wade [said]: "I doubt anyone who isn't wearing a tin-foil hat will take their foreign-policy cues from a proven liar who became infamous smearing the Pope, Catholics, Jews and Vietnam veterans."
Kennedy aide Stephanie Cutter piled on. "You have to ask yourself: Does Mr. Corsi really believe the stuff he writes, and if so, shouldn't he get some professional help?"
Sen. Clinton's press secretary, Philippe Reines, echoed: "Sounds like another work of fiction."
And my favorite
"Who's Corsi's co-author this time - Jeff Gannon?" scoffed Biden aide Norm Kurz

It looks like the top of our party has learned their lesson after the Swift Boat Summer. They're stepping up on this, and we need to have their backs. This book is coming out in a month, and we need to make sure that it and it's author are so damaged by the time it hits Borders that it'll be a punch line. In short, we need to go into war mode on this one, just like we did on the attack on the AARP.

And we couldn't ask for a better opponent. Jerome Corsi is a guy gives us plenty of ammunition. He's on record as saying Islam is "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion." Of Pope John Paul II, he said "Boy-buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope, as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press." The first one of those statements is to extreme for most Americans outside of Freepervile. The second one is probably too extreme even for them.

The Senate Democrats aren't wasting any time jumping on this, and neither should we. I don't want to be on here a month from now and only then hear us planning a response to this, we need to be getting our response together now.

So let's do it, frames, narratives, counter-attacks, any other nut-bag statements Corsi made, let's put it on the table.

Update [2005-2-25 1:24:9 by Goldfish]: Just a last word in here before this diary disappears from the recommend list. The consensus here, with which I agree, is that we should respond to this with a mix of ridicule, as well as choice attacks on Republicans who actually have unhealthily close ties to Iran. I’m going to keep working on this, following any future developments regarding this book, as well as compiling a dossier on Corzi (using the sources people here have generously provided). This can be used as a foundation for future rapid reaction on this issue, as well as to launch counter-attacks at any future smear pieces by Corzi.

Anyone who has ideas or has more material to add to the opposition research pile can contact me through the e-mail address in my profile

Keep your eyes on the diary list for new developments.

Originally posted to Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:17 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Please Recomend (4.00)
    Let's get out in front of this.

    How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

    by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:12:57 PM PST

    •  More SwiftBoats (none)
      Remember those Swiftboat ads?  

      The guy who put up the money for it owns Perry homes, which has had over 150 lawsuits from homeowners b/c of shoddy construction (not politics).  The Houston Press did an excellent story on this.

      Let's stop Financing these creeps so that they can't finance people like the Swiftboats & the AARP ads!

      •  Here's the problem (4.00)
        These Swift Boat idiots know how to play the media like a fiddle.  First they release some completely outrageous charges (John Kerry lied about his medals, AARP is against the soldiers, Democrats heart Iran).  Next the liberal blogosphere and the specific targets of the smear issue a protest.  Then the charges are aired repeatedly on the cable news shows, talk radio, and right wing sites.  This equals free media and plenty of subliminal suggesting to the unsuspecting audience.

        Thus, even if you are bringing up the charges in order to refute them, the charges will still stick in the listener's mind. If you go out and say "Mr. X says I am a pedophile, but that is a total lie!" then like it or not people are going to wonder, even if briefly, whether you are a pedophile.  They also might not want to make you their babysitter, just in case.

        This is how these slimeballs operate.  Corsi will release his disgusting book, we will go into attack mode, the major media will pick up the story because of the "controversy" value and then boom -- average Joe American hears these fair-and-balanced charges that Democrats are conspiring to assist the mullahs in Iran.  Which will only reinforce their mistaken view that yes, Democrats love terrorists, we're weak on defense, we must be traitors because why else would so many people say it?

        I'm not saying we can ignore these wackos.  But we do have to marginalize them so that they don't get so much free media.  The less we appear afraid of these guys, the better.

        •  laugh it off (none)
          I agree - going into full-blown attack mode with this loon is going to give him more free publicity.  We should just laugh at his insane antics and then move on.
          •  didn't Kerry try that? n/t (4.00)

            "Well, really the truth is just a plain picture." --Bob Dylan

            by comrade pat on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 07:08:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Kerry didn't react at all (none)
              He should have laughed it off.  But remember, Kerry didn't hold a single press conference in the month of August. He waited over a week to address the charges, and then did so in a rather vague manner.

              Kerry essentially went the weak middle road.  His advisors dismissed the charges, but Kerry didn't come out to defend himself (or lash out at the accusers) so it looked like maybe he had something to hide.  At the very least it looked like Kerry was too weak.  If he can't defend his own war record, how can he defend the country?  I know that sounds stupid and simplistic, but that's how it played out.

              Kerry should have turned those guys into a running joke, while also demonstrating a bit of righteous anger along the way. The Swift Boat Vets were buffoons and yet we treated them like a real threat, like whistleblowers when they were nothing of the kind.

        •  We need to stop reacting. (none)
          We need to stop reacting to Karl's reality creations and concentrate on our own REAL reality.

          Gannon has the balls to start his site back up.

          Hannity was taunting a Dem Congressman today on his show to prove a link between Gannon, Rove, and himself or shut up.

          They aren't talking to us they are talking to the sleepwalkers.....why are we hanging on their every word.

          I challenge anybody to find ANYTHING about Hannity before 1996.

          All I have been able to find is an obscure reference to him earning his  Electrician's License in 1986 and Associate's Degree in General Education from Sage Junior College of Albany in 1993.  

          And that's it.

          Sean is getting ready to pimp himself again... this time he's going to convince the sleepwalkers it's ok to kill Iranian "islamofasist".

          Instead of playing Karl's game trying to defend our patriotic senators lets try and silence one of the War Party's enablers.

        •  I'm thinking.... (none)
          ..since Michael Moore is used to paint all things Democratic Party, Jerome Corsi should be the right wing go-to boy.  How about "It sounds like the Jerome Corsi wing of the Republican Party"....
          •  Hosehold name. (none)
            I think you're on to something: people need to know that there are actual individuals with histories behind these attacks. Corsi needs to be made public. We need pictures and stories ...

            Kossaks who enjoy contemporary art might want to look at Todd DeVriese.

            by cmlorenz on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 06:28:03 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Ignoring them hurt Kerry (none)
          What we should do is more of the same, perhaps we can come out with some outlandish smears just like they do. Have them infuriate the right wing blogs, make the nightly news, and there we have it, free press. The added benefit is,it puts them on the defensive, just like they are trying to do to us. We need to play offense. It is as simple as that. We must stop taking the high ground, if you are fighting scum, you must get dirty.
          •  No, you ridicule them (none)
            Don't get down on their level, slinging mud back and forth. But don't ignore them Kerry-style either. What you do is ridicule the fuck out of these guys.  Make them into a laughingstock, guys that nobody can take seriously.

            They are giving us plenty of ammo. They are a bunch of lying wackos. Send them back to the loony bin and forget about them.

            •  Ridicule alone will not work, it hasn't so far. (none)
              We need to do more than ridicule them. I really beleive if we throw allegations toward them, just as they are doing to us, it will make the news, and force them to defend themselves. We all know in our gut, these people are guilty of some pretty outlandish things, we just lack the evidence to prove it. Hard evidence doesn't stop them from their charges, so why in the hell should it stop us. We are smarter and we can do a better job at this if we simply put our collective minds to the task. We need to sensationalize things, doing what we are doing right now is not working. Let's give the moderates on both sides of the aisle something to really think about. What the hell do we have to lose? Right now we are being called unpatriotic, Socialist pigs,the hate America first crew,gay loving, troop hating,hedonists What more can they say?
              •  Ridicule does work! (none)
                It's what they did to liberals so that now even mainstream Americans have negative feelings towards liberalism.

                Ridicule is the cornerstone of the Luntz/Gingrich attack.

                Ridicule is how they turned working class people into Republicans voting against themselves.  It's part of their culture war.  They didn't do it with facts.  They didn't have any.  They did it with smirks and smears, all the time winking at the average American saying "we're on your side, those people are a freak show who do not respect you."

                Ridicule is the most effective way to destroy because it precludes debate.  It belittles so as to make the target not even worthy of consideration.

                •  First they lied, then they ridiculed. (none)
                  First they lied about the liberal agenda, then they began to ridicule liberals. If we want mainstream America to sit up and take notice, we have to come up with something more than ridicule. They ridicule us, we ridicule them, it is like two kids fighting on the playground, and it gets ignored. I am sick to death of them and we need a much stronger weapon to fight with. The Daily show has been ridiculing them for a while now, and although we get it, the mainstream doesn't. We may not be as evil, but we are much smarter, and I think we should put our intelligence to a constructive use. Our side appears to be very ethical, and will not attack until we can back up the attacks with facts. They just attack, and worry about the facts later. You know what, the attacks get the news coverage. If you don't beleive me, just look at the swift boat liars. Kerry had government documents to back him up, all they had were the stories they made up. Who won that one?  I hate to say this, but during the Nixon/Vietnam era, we were not afraid to fight dirty. Guess what, Nixon got impeached, and we ended that war too. Of course we had reasonable Republicans, who were not Kool-aide drinkers, the Democrats controlled Congress, and the MSM, was the MSM, not the RWCM. It will be more difficult to accomplish our goals, but I beleive we can.
        •  Supporting Iran... (none)
          It seems that rather than attacking directly the accusation made in the book, we as a group should bring to the front the role of a Halliburton subsidiary working with the government of Iran. Keep bringing up the issue of someone with questionable credentials getting into the WH, etc. Force the Republicans to explain themselves.
    •  I was reading that (none)
      page in the Daily News during my son's karate class and had a diary worked out in my mind coming home 10 minutes ago.  Only to find yours being second on the reco list.

      Great story, and you definitely put it out there much better than I could.

      There was another gem just a few pages on; Dems pursue reporter flap

      Not from the wires, but written by a staff writer.  Note that she captured the Plame angle quite well.

      •  Who would have thought (none)
        That some decent journalims would come out of the Daily News. I only found the story for this diary because it was up on Bob's Newswire.

        Guess I should take another look at Daily News...

        How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

        by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:21:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Conservative editors (none)
          but some decent columnists.

          My favorite was Lars Erik Nelson who passed away unexpectedly in November 2000 while the Florida mess was growing.  Every day, I looked for his column.

          (The obit linked to is not particularly illustrative , but could pick no other given the story coming right next "George Dubya on nukes: From mad to nuts"  - how little things change in 4 years.)

    •  Are we helping them? (none)
      It seems to me that no one is talking about this, at least from what I've heard, except here. So, is it possible we hurt them by reacting so strongly and so quickly against this shit that we actually help push it into the media jetstream through overly vigorous denials. I know the supposed lesson of the Swift Boat Liars for Bush was that Kerry didn't react quickly and strongly enough, but I think the real problem was that even when it became obvious the story had legs, other Democrats failed to rally around Kerry. He seeemed alone and twisting in the wind. I don't usually think everything from Rove is some kind of secret plan to get us to do exactly what he wants, but I have to wonder if we aren't just helping to distract from the obvious fear they have over the Gannon story which actually seems to finally be getting some mainstream press after around 3 weeks of creepy silence.
      •  I addressed this downthread (4.00)
        But I'll restate it up here: we can't let Corzi or any of the wingnuts get the initiate and set the debate. To minimize the impact of the publicity we give him, we follow the line the Senate Dems are taken: ridicule, ridicule, deride, and ridicule. We treat this guy's work as the garbage it is, and take the fight to him. And we also use this as an excuse to bring up as much of the right wing's dirty laundry regarding Iran as we can, so that this becomes a headache for them too.

        And we're not the only ones talking about it, the Daily News is talking about it, the Seante Dems are given quotes about it, this isn't to early. Do I need to go through the list of Dems who lost because they were to slow to react?

        The only way this sort of thing is ever going to stop is if we stop it! No hoping it will go away, no letting it burn it's self out. If they start it, we have to be ready to put it out!

        No more waiting, we don't wait to get hit, we hit back as soon as we see it coming!

        How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

        by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:35:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ridicule is the right way to go (none)
          Yes, having read the entire thread now I feel differently. We do want to respond, but we need a serious counter-punch that it is the Republicans who were caught red-handed in Iran Contra (make sure to name names here) and then laugh at the accusations as yet another feeble attempt to distract from and neutralize Cheney's involvement in Halliburton doing business in Iran. The Republicons are the ones who have questions to answer.
          •  Right With You (none)
            The way to go is scuff at the Corzi, then drop in Iran-Contra, and the more recent double-dealings by Haliburton, and so on. We minimize Corzi, while at the same time using this as an opportunity to drgede the lake regarding ties by high-profile Bush officials to interests Iran.

            Considering the war drums we've all be hearing, such an opportunity couldn't come at a better time.

            How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

            by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:51:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  fight stratigies (none)
              Exactly Joe. This is battle structure. Defend-Counter punch. Use the exposure of the punch to your advantage/ airtime. Counter punch/ the message you need to present.
        •  Absolutely. (4.00)
          We have to learn this lesson.  "Democrats acuse Conservative Mouthpiece of Smear Campaign" sounds much better than "Democrats deny funding Iranians quest for Nukes."  

          It's time to get out front on these things.

          Thanks for this diary.  

          "One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal" ~ Bill Moyers

          by CJB on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:00:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  They must be stopped I agree (none)
           Can we get one of the Kerry shipmates to sue and possibly knock the wind out of their sails?
           Or another thought is;
          "What would rove do?"
           I think by now we know their gameplan is to create news stories for their own purposes and at their own timing. Why can't we get Dems to do something really BIG to change the story?
        •  All (4.00)
          Kossacks should make it a point to go to their nearest bookstore and do what I do with Ann Coulter's books.....I take them one by one and hide them throughout the store.  It's my little act of civil disobedience.  I will be sure to give this lastest "book' the same treatment.  I suggest all of you do the same.

          GWB will pry my 19 year old son from my cold dead fingers.

          by Momagainstthedraft on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 07:12:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I understand what you're saying (4.00)
        And I think you do have to discriminate between things worth responding to and things not worth responding to, at least in normal times.

        But these aren't normal times.  There's a pervasive impression out there that Democrats don't fight back.  Moreover, Corsi's association with the Swift Boaters makes him a bit of a celebrity, and the mainstream news media might run with it when they normally would write it off, for that reason.

        But finally, I think this is just plain good practice.  Given the situation in which we find ourselves and the propaganda machine the right wing is wielding, Democrats need to get used to hitting back hard every time.  They need to get used to issuing witty, scathing retorts.

  •  Don't usally like Biden (4.00)
    But this quote is golden:

    "Who's Corsi's co-author this time - Jeff Gannon?" scoffed Biden aide Norm Kurz

    We should tag every Republican lie with the Gannon tag. The whole Gannon thing is sleazy, ridiculous and pathetic--it's a great shorthand for all of Bush's propaganda. Lets work to brand the Gannon wing of the Republican Party.

    •  As I was writing this (none)
      I started thinking... Given all the ties of the Swift Boat Liars to Rove and other Bush officials, I wonder how closely linked to Rove Corsi's latest effort is. There may be a propgandagate angle here, as well as just another smear attack.

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:18:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You attach the word "LIAR" (4.00)
        to the Swifties. We should continue that.

        It has a nice ring to it:
        Swift Boat Liars.

        The upcoming book should not be reviewed, just condemned outright.

        To thine own self be true - W.S.

        by Agathena on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:19:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks (none)
          I actually had the title as "Swift Boat Author" but relaized by changing it to "lair" I could get the "giving Iran the bomb" to not be cut off on the diary list. Necessity is the mother of innovation.

          How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

          by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:31:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Excellent (none)
          Blogger world:  Every reference to the Swift Boaters should be "Swift Boat Liars".  Make it their un-selfconscious tag line!
        •  I always just called them (none)
          "The Swift Boat Veterans for Rent"

          If you're not feeding red meat to our base, you're nothing but a mole.

          by Grand Moff Texan on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 05:20:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Go with crazy (none)
          Paint them as partisan loons.  Liar is difficult to prove.  Loon is self-evident: these charges are whacky on their face.
          •  How about Traitor Cowards (4.00)
            Making combat partisan, telling young republicans to hide in the bushes with a pen and paper while a real war hero fights battles he didn't have to fight. Kerry could have made a phone call and got right off that boat at any time. Sickening.

            On "Meet the Press," Kerry made an excellent point about the swift boat cowards releasing their 840s along with him. I say we make them do it. Everywhere this Corsi idiot goes, he should fend off calls for his coward buddies to get their paper trails in order. That way:

            1. His credibility is directly impuned by the past and the swift boat thing.
            2. It's more damage control work for him and less time face time he can use to smear Dems.

            Just a thought.

            25 page views a day since yesterday The Tom Joad Society

            by TheChanMan on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 11:55:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Call for Rove's resignation (none)
      Don't wait, don't waffle.

      Democrats should call for Rove to resign immediately, in the light of six journalists taking illegal payments to write propaganda, a male whore Administration spokesman, a phony senior group saying seniors hate the troops, and now a mentally unstable attack dog who says the dying Pope supports child molestation. Rove has crossed every line and Democrats should demand his immediate resignation or else no Democrat will speak to any Republican about any changes whatsoever to Social Security.

      •  I think we should wait on that (none)
        I want Rove in the bunker when Gannongate goes off, and it's my belife the best fireworks are yet to come there (and that Rove will be part of them).

        Rove needs to stay right where he is, until something blows up in his face. Otherwise, he can just slink out the back door and keep turning up like a bad penny even year after even year.

        How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

        by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:14:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why? (none)
        To stick with my theme: Why ask Rove to do something he won't do? That just empowers him more.

        Would you ask a fugitive to quit hiding? Would you demand he present himself to the nearest constable?

        Show Rove for what he is --  when/if the public realizes the truth about Rove (and most probably do already), when he is exposed for what he is and what he does,  his presence will have the appropriate effect.

        "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

        by muledriver on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 07:25:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Also link it to propaganda (none)
      Another response to every dirty trick like this must be "How much is the White House paying you to write this?"
    •  Meme: The Rove-Gannon Propaganda Machine (none)
      I like "the Gannon Wing of the Republican Party" - but I think we need to put the Lord High Executioner in there too. And to help people conjoin Rove and Gannon as much as possible (the Puppeteer and his most recent puppet).

      So, repeat after me, (and google-bomb as you see fit) "All Hail the Rove-Gannon Propaganda Machine". . .

      "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." - Thomas Jefferson

      by AikidoPilgrim on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 07:38:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  No one (none)
    No one can be stupid enough to believe this. Why would they blame Democrats for giving Iran the bomb, as if voters all have the bomb materials.

    The single most critical issue of the Democratic party Support Living Wages

    by Lucian on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:18:26 PM PST

    •   No One Could Have Been Stupid Enough (4.00)
      To believe a decorated, bon fied war hero was unfit for command, but we all know how that went. And even if the stuff about the bomb doesn't stick, let's not forget how well Rove's "Gore takes money from the Chi-Coms" smear went. Let me be blunt: Your compliance here is the kind of compliance that cost Kerry the election. Your attitude is why we lose, and I and I think most people here have no use for it.

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:21:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They didnt (none)
        No one believed that crap. People voted for Bush because they DONT want social programs, they DO want war, and they DO hate gays and minorities. John Kerry may be a war hero, but he's not a hawk.

        The single most critical issue of the Democratic party Support Living Wages

        by Lucian on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:23:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nah, (none)
          I think it was really they're "moral weakness" that lead them to vote against Kerry. I'm sorry but I responded to your first post just because I thought it was a point that needed to be addressed. Don't expect me to responding to any more of your inane wailings (and if anyone reading this thinks I'm being to harsh, go into the hidden comments folder and take a look at what Lucian has to say about mental illness).

          How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

          by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:27:24 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I disagree (none)
          lots of people believed that crap.  If they didn't then why was soooooo much time spent on disputing it.  Lots of people believed it.

          A moment of resistance; a lifetime of capitulation.

          by lapin on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:05:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, yes, yes, yes (4.00)
            People absolutely did believe that crap. I have heard people, and not necessarily just wingers, repeating the claims made by the Swift Boat Liars. It didn't help that the media gave the Swifties what amounted to free advertising.
        •  My Mother (none)
          a generally kind and compassionate person said to me, "You don't think there is something to the stories about Kerry in Vietnam?"  My jaw dropped.  So, yes, there are people who believe what they said.

          Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act. - Orwell

          by TracieLynn on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:27:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  that was about Vietnam (none)
            People still have strong feelings about that war, and Kerry's antiwar activities back then, and it stirred up all the old muck.  I think this is a different story.
        •  Yeah, they did-- (none)
          You should have heard (and read) what my Republican brother-in-law said about Kerry's military service before the election.  He believed every last word of the Swift Boat Liars.  And, of course, Bush was NOT AWOL and the Democrats were making it all up!  He couldn't vote for a lying traitor like Kerry.  
      •  That's different (none)
        This is more along the lines of a Coulter screed.  It won't go anywhere, except among the dittoheads.
        •  That's how stuff like this (none)
          spreads in the first place.

          We must do everything in our power to stop the lies BEFORE it gets too big for us to control.

          •  Don't waste your time refuting Corsi's charges (4.00)
            They can't be refuted, and are ridiculous on their face.  Any charge such as this should be met with derision, laughter and a refusal to discuss seriously.

            HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that we ignore Corsi.  In addition to the derision (which the Dems have already done a good job of getting in to motion), we should go after the GOP, using Corsi's bizarre and hate-filled statements as an example of what's wrong with today's conservatives.

            Trust me; most people won't take the charges seriously--they'll dismiss them out of hand.  The only thing that can hurt us is the impression that we're not willing to fight back, and are helpless as to what to do.  And we have several ways to do that.

    •  It was George Bush's good friend Putin (4.00)
      who gave Iranians their nuclear expertise.  Putin and our friends the Pakistanis.

      You can never be too rich, too thin, or too cynical.

      by Dallasdoc on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:22:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are right (none)
        But the Russians in general hate America. We destroyed their economy, the moment they switched to our system they went from the world superpower to nearly a third world country. Russia seems to be going back to communism and becoming allies with China, is this a surprise? George Bush is proving that you can have capitalism and still not have Democracy.

        The single most critical issue of the Democratic party Support Living Wages

        by Lucian on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:25:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  huh? (4.00)
          Russia seems to be going back to communism ...

          1) They were never there, aside from the rhetoric and some of the window dressing. (Sort of like the US system is supposedly free market capitalism.)
          2) They aren't headed in that direction now.

          Proud member of the reality-based minority

          by Bearpaw on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:43:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  um (none)
          they destroyed their economy themselves. If you remember your history, they Soviet economy started crashing in the 1970s and went into a downward spiral ever since, and they were anything but capitalist in those days. Their economy completely collapsed by the end of the Cold War and that was due to the decades of a failed commmand economy. The y were always a third world nation disguised as a superpower because of their military might, never their economic, at least since the 1970s. To blame Russia's problems on America is absurd. They will always be a third world country as long as neo-communists like Putin stayin power and don't follow through with the necessary reforms needed. Plenty of former communist bloc countries are doing fine, such as the Czech Republic, the Baltic countries, etc...Russia craves world power and recognition, and clearly they don't wanna take a backseat and fix their own mess first, they wanna recapture the glory of their former shadow....ok I've deviated from the main idea....I just wanted to respond to that claim that America ruined Russia's economy.

          "Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers." --Jesse Ventura

          by michael1104 on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:06:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  only if (none)
          communism means you have to pay taxes.
      •  It was Pakistan (none)

        With Saudi funding.

        I think all this was covered by Sy Hersh.

    •  Some people will believe anything (4.00)
      if you lie often enough.

      This illustrates the whole point of the right wing meme that liberalsleftiesDemocrats are traitors.  That laid the groundwork for these people to say:  "You know they're traitors, and here's some proof" and those so inclined will lap it up.

      I can't tell you how many people I've talked to since last Fall still believe Kerry was lying about his war record.  These attacks are relentless for a reason folks.  After a while it becomes second nature for the uninformed to think of "traitor" whenever the word Democrat or liberal comes into the conversation.

      The ironic thing is that Halliburton still has on-going contracts with Iraq, but that story gets no traction in the corporate media universe.

    •  Knock Knock (4.00)
      anyone home? really, wake up and smell the coffee burning guy/gal. I don't mean to be rude but there are people out there that still believe there are WMDs in Iraq and that is why we are there. Nothing these people do surprises me anymore. How long can this go on.

      Goldfish...let me know what I can do to help. Email in profile. Thanks for the diary.

      The more understanding one posesses, the less there is to say and the more there is to do.

      by Alohaleezy on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:22:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kerry was a traitor for his Viet Nam years (2.00)
      I have a coworker, who by the way is not an idiot about most things, tell me that.

      Where the fuck do you think that came from?

      I can't wait until the Rapture! -- FREE STUFF! --EVERYWHERE!

      by God loves goats on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:34:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I read somewhere that (none)
    Coesi wants to take on Kerry for his seat.  He really has no shame.
  •  It wasn't Democrats who helped Saddam (4.00)
    Reagan, Bush and Don Rumsfeld were arming Saddam when he was fighting the Iranians.  If Democrats had done this, the current crew would have them in jail by now.

    Corsi's blatant lie should be called out for what it is.  He should be vilified as a serial liar, and a front man for Karl Rove.

    You can never be too rich, too thin, or too cynical.

    by Dallasdoc on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:21:04 PM PST

    •  I was unaware of this character (none)
      until reading the paper today.
      He seems to have been busy lying for quite some time, I got 23,400 results:

      Apparently, he is also a freeper:
      E  Pluribus Unum

      The team knows what to do (our team, that is).

    •  Shouldn't (none)
      Shouldn't we be inserting this story of Rumself helping Iraq into the news media? It's a horrendous smear but yet it is not a smear since it's true. Is it wrong to expose the truth?
      •  It WAS in the media (none)
        Didn't you ever see the photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam, circa 1988 IIRC?  Rummy was the point guy for American aid to Saddam when he was our friend fighting the evil moolahs.  

        The RWCM, true to form, ignored the story.  Example number 1087493 of why they're a danger to America.

        You can never be too rich, too thin, or too cynical.

        by Dallasdoc on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 07:54:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Wait just one minute... (4.00)
    Allowing perceived enemies of the United States to get weapons is treasonous?  Man, someone better tell the Reagan administration.  I mean, those guys sold Iran A LOT of guns, so someone better give them the heads up on this.

    I used to be paranoid until I lost my self-esteem. Who is going to waste their time following me?

    by Mote Dai on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:21:53 PM PST

    •  Reagan Administration? (4.00)
      Hell, all those guys are back. It's the new-guy-in-charge but the modus operandi hasn't changed Bush Administration.

      Which is what I think Corsi is up to--pre-emptive (what else?) projection. Because it's clear that Misters Rummy and Cheney and Negroponte have already done such things, even with Iran. And it's clear that we're going to be unsuccessful at preventing Iran from getting the Bomb. And it's clear to anyone who looks that part of the reason Iran has gotten the bomb is because we have coddled Mister Musharraf so as to be able to pretend that we were looking for OBL.

      It's clear to anyone who thinks about it that BushCo is the real culprit here. But kudos to Corsi for neutralizing that accusation by publishing first.

  •  Didn't The NeoCons (none)
    overthrow the secular Iranians back in the 1970s and 80s?
    •  Nope (none)

        It was a grass-roots Islamic movement that used religion as a cover to seize power.  The Shah administration's corruption being the primary fuel and Ayatollah Khomeini being the lit match.

        You may be thinking of the U.S.-sponsored overthrow of the democratically-elected Iranian President Muhammed Moussadeq in 1953.


      One hand forward with a flower, one hand behind with the dagger.

      by Predator Saint on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:51:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Framing (4.00)
    This activity has to be called what it is: The New McCartheyism.

    Those of us who consider ourselves "liberal" have to face the fact that there are well-funded operatives who seek to turn us into the new communists.  This is not a case of over-reacting or paranoia.  It is what it is.

    For a big portion of the last century, conservatives were able to consolidate power by constructing a "enemy" that no one wanted to be aligned with.  It was a very successful strategy. Internationally, they now have the amorphous "terrorist" to serve as enemy.  But, they need a domestic opponent, too.  And that's us.

    Public rebuttal is needed, for sure.  But, claims that cannot be proved should be challenged legally.  These people will not stop this shit until they start to suffer from their actions.

    •  Agreed (none)
      This is a witch-hunt plan and simple.

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:31:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  How to use Corsi's attacks against the GOP (4.00)
      The way to turn Corsi's hateful, anti-American attacks into ammo for us is simple.

      First, rather than wasting time rebutting these useless attacks and giving them more airtime, use the Rovian strategy of personally attacking the author of the attacks, Corsi, and thereby discrediting everything he says.

      Second, tie Corsi to the Republican party as they have done with Michael Moore. This opens up the door for saying things such as "Republicans hate America." "Republicans hate Catholics, Jews, and Muslims." "Republicans hate the Pope." "Republicans are racist liars."

      When the Republican party did this with Moore, they turned it into something to use against the Democrats. They claimed that a brash, obnoxious, radical independent was representative of the entire Democratic Party. We need to do the same thing with Corsi. And this guy is so fucking crazy that he somehow makes Michael Moore look like a voice of reason.

      If Corsi runs in '08, Kerry needs to paint him as representative of the entire Republican party (he would be their nominee after all) and use personal attacks against this mofo like a sledgehammer. He knows he's going to get re-elected, but by tarring Corsi as much as possible he can also draw out people who normally don't vote to vote against Corsi and in the process vote against the Republican Party throughout the entire ballot. He should make a serious attempt to pull many other Massachusetts Dems. in on his coattails.

  •  Yay! I'm recomended! (none)
    Thanks for getting this story up front guys, let's keep the ball rolling.

    How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

    by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:38:46 PM PST

  •  "Satanic Religion" (1.00)
    That characterization sure worked well for Salman Rushdie.
    •  Rushdie (4.00)
      You might want to read Salman Rushdie's books first, starting with, say, "The Satanic Verses".  The premise is not "The Koran is satanic verses" or anything like that.  Rushdie himself is a muslim (Though a secular, non-practicing one) and the title refers to a prophecy that Muhammad received that he later discarded, arguing that it was the devil that gave it to him instead of God.  

      "The Satanic Verses" is what that event is referred to as, and it'd be maybe the muslim equivalent of "The Gospel of Judas" or something. - member of the Democratic Signal Machine

      by Mikey on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:50:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rushdie (2.00)
        Thanks for the info. I was not making a judgement of his work or beliefs. Just the fact that after writing the book, he had to go into hiding due to the death threats. I was just joking that the swiftie may face the same threat after characterizing Islam as 'satanic'.
      •  That is one strange book (none)
        Very interesting but very hard to follow....I should read it again after all that I've incidentally learned about Islamic culture since 9/11.
  •  The man is a White Supremacist. (4.00)
    He thinks only White middle-class males are pure and moral and all the rest of us can go to hell. He has made repeated racist slurs against other people and religions.

    Let's also call SBVT for what they are: a right-wing hate group. During the race, Nightline did a documentary confirming John Kerry's version of events. The SBVT man refused to be confused with the facts. From his manners and body language, I can only conclude that SBVT is a hate group just like KKK or Aryan Nations.

    by Eternal Hope on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:42:31 PM PST

    •  He hates Muslims, he hates Catholics (none)
      We know he hates liberals. I wonder how he feels about Jews and blacks?

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:43:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He hates Jews too (none)
        This nutcase speculated on the Free Republic that after he married Teresa Heinz, Kerry converted to Judaism and that people should ask Kerry what his religion was.  Of course, his phrasing was cruder and nuttier.  He obviously confused Kerry with his brother Cameron Kerry, who did convert to Judaism after marrying a Jewish woman.  So he's not just anti-Catholic, Corsi's anti-Semitic too.
    •  not quite enough: add mendacious (4.00)
      with all respect, it's not enough to say, they're motivated solely by hate.  we also have to point out that their wrong and/or lying.

      change "right wing hate group" to "*lying" right wing hate group" or just "lying hate group" and I think we're on a more successful opinion.

      just my $0.02, with all respect...

      No matter how cynical you become ... you can never keep up.

      by LegalSpice on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:53:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Okay, so they want to play dirty? (4.00)
    Are there any private detectives out there?  Law enforcement?  Lawyers who use private detectives?

    NO ONE who smears and lies and attacks so much has nothing in their background to hide.

    Indeed, it seems the worst of the right - the angriest, most hate-spewing do so in a dark form of projecting their secret loathing of themselves.

    Corsi has something big in his past.  Something big to hide.

    Jesus said "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."  Then there's "People who live in glass houses..."

    What does Corsi's glass house look like?

    We can do it with this community.  We can find it- and damn, can we make it public.

    I'm PISSED!  Ann Coulter started the "treason" theme going with them - and that is a serious and unbelievably reckless accusation.

    Let us take Corsi down.

    "Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone."--Thomas Jefferson

    by hopesprings on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:49:11 PM PST

    •  Anyone from Harvard? (none)
      Here's the title to his dissertation: Restraint, Prior Punishment, and Political Dissent; a Moral and Legal Evaluation

      Maybe someone should check it out.  These people didn't become dishonest all at once.

      The problem of power is how to achieve its responsible use rather than its irresponsible and indulgent use JFK

      by Responsible on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:55:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Slander (4.00)
    Can someone enlighten me about the laws of libel & slander in this country?  Does freedom of speech basically override all need to be able to substantiate the allegations?  In the UK, I don't think that they'd be able to get away with something this blatantly erroneous.

    In response to comments up-thread that people won't believe this stuff.  There is a large chunk of the population that will believe anything their preacher/talk radio 'personality' tells them.  Please don't ever over-estimate the stupidity of this portion of the population.  Throw enough mud and it sticks, and people like Corsi are adept at throwing plenty of mud.

    •  I used to think the UK slander laws (none)
      were a major enemy of free speech.  I still think they are that - an author friend of mine had a brilliant book pulled out of pre-pub galleys in a libel suit - but I now believe there should be a standard of proof here when personal attacks are concerned..

      "Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone."--Thomas Jefferson

      by hopesprings on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 01:54:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This raises a question I've had for some time (4.00)
      Now that the election is over, why doesn't Kerry sue this man and the other swift boat vets who lied about his Viet Nam war record?  Suing them for libel and slander would be a great service to the Dem Party and the political culture in the USA.  

      It would show that there are consequences for committing outright slander and libel during political campaigns.  It would draw attention not only to these men but also to those who supported them and their probable connections to members of Bush's reelection campaign and administration.  Imagine the connections, collusions and machinations that could be discovered during depositions, testimony in an open court, through leaks?  A lawsuit would uncover a fortune of scandal and given that the process would take a few years, the story would stay alive in the press a long time, providing good food for thought for voters during the 06 election cycle.  

      I believe Kerry should be encouraged to challenge these people in Court.  Not for himself but for the American people and their political process.  

      For the coup de grace, Kerry could donate the monetary judgment to a worthy charity for veterans.    

  •  Swift Boat (4.00)
    These guys are truly vile, and I guess the lame response by Kerry during the campaign emboldened them.

    Good. They are sticking their necks out on the chopping block.

    If the truth were obvious, there would be no tyrants.

    •  Agreed (none)

        I think they are overreaching big-time.

        Maybe someone spiked the Kool-aid.

      One hand forward with a flower, one hand behind with the dagger.

      by Predator Saint on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:54:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It goes back farther than that (none)
      This is the same crap that was pulled against Clinton: a few money-grubbing liars started churning out outrageous and obscure stories of scandals.  The stories were picked up and amplified by the right-wing press, and all too soon the mainstream media ran with them.

      It seems to me there are several ways to oppose stuff like this.  One is to point out that this is part of a pattern.  Another is to use the courts (libel charges).  A third is to come up with something even juicier and equally unfalsifiable.  A fourth is to slime the entire GOP with the charges, loudly and continuously.  E.g.: "Desperate GOP attempts to smear greatest generation".

      Now, to be clear, I think Corsi's latest lunacy misses the boat by a mile, and I think the Democrats' response is very good.  It's just too implausible, and can be laughed off.  End of story.  But not all "Swift Boat"-style attacks will be so easy to defuse.  The basic problem is that it leverages one of the most unfortunate aspects of today's media: its yellow-journalism tendencies.

      We have two trends going for us.  The first is that this has been done before, and as I said above, the pattern can be pointed out to the media.  Are they going to fall for it again?

      The second is that this administration has a known and acknowledged history of low-blow, propaganda activities.  That means "dirty tricks" can be made the story, instead of the smear itself.

  •  Here is MORE on Corsi's own writings (none)
    The "non-partisann" Swift-Vet author reveals his overt, partisan roots, his full disdain
    for everyone Democratic
    - here.

        The Swift Vets never told you   this.   (The link takes you to mid-site. You can navigate to the top, and find your way.)

  •  I Can't Resist (4.00)
    In A.D. 2004
    War was beginning.

    Khamenei: What happen ?
    Rafsanjani: Democrats set up us the bomb.
    Khamenei: We get signal.
    Rafsanjani: What !
    Khamenei: Main screen turn on.
    Rafsanjani: It's you !!
    Cheney: How are you gentlemen !!
    Cheney: All your base are belong to us.
    Cheney: You are on the way to destruction.
    Khamenei: What you say !!
    Cheney: You have no chance to survive make your time.
    Cheney: Ha Ha Ha Ha ....

    Flame away - this was the first thing to come to mind when I say the phrasing in this diary's title.
  •  This calls for the "kwik-label" tactic (none)
    The radical right refers to every criticism as "more left-wing hate speech," and every Democrat as a "tax and spend liberal," because after a while it pigeonholes the target so thoroughly that new information will not penetrate.

    ANYTHING Corsi says comes from a radical right nutcase who's been frothing at the mouth for 30 years. He's a pathological liar who can't be trusted to tell you the time of day.

    "Corsi? Everybody knows he's a kook."

    From the quotes, I'm betting this response is finally in the Democratic playbook.

    Talk doesn't cook rice -- Chinese Proverb

    by OldYellerDog on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:02:50 PM PST

  •  The next step toward fascim (4.00)
    Now they are moving beyond vague accusations of non-patriotism to more concrete examples.  How do you prove you didn't do something?  It's easy to say "nobody is going to believe this", but, unfortuneatly, it isn't true. Some people will believe this.  I find myself wondering if this is the way that McCarthyism started.  In a few years, will things be better, or are the witch hunts just beginning?
  •  You gotta work Chalabi in there somehow. (none)
  •  the only traitor who helped iran (4.00)
    build up its industrial infrastructure

    is dick cheney, of course.

    •  Let's not forget (none)
      The traitor who helped them get brand new anti-tank missiles way back when. And rest assured, if Bush co makes the mistake of invading Iran, we will get those missiles back... when they start firing them at us!

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:19:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes, precisely (4.00)
        iran-contra comes back into play, in a crescendo

        you don't think the RWCM could avoid that subject, do you?

        oh dear god!

        •  I'm sure they'll try to avoid it (none)
          But I say we rub they're faces in it. We need to mount a media-relations effort along the lines of the one we did for Gannongate, in which we'll not only attack the Swift Liar, but also drop Iran-Contra into the mix. As in "if Jerome Corsi cared about weapons going to Iran, he'd be writing a book about Oliver North."

          How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

          by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:50:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  shear speculation, but (4.00)
        Michael Ledeen, a neoconservative hawk on Iran, said in late January that Halliburton's actions in Iran have been "disgusting". The contract Halliburton has had in Iran has been through a business man named Sirous Naseri, who also is on the Iranian govt's nuclear programs negotiation team talking with European about limitations.

        As is probably well known here, Halliburton under Cheney in the nineties did millions worth of business with Iran through a Cayman subsidiary, escaping US law banning business with Iran. Halliburton has recently opened an office in Tehran.

        Now, one can only speculate, but Halliburton had been accused of, and even coped a plea and paid a fine for exporting devices (the devices were components of oil drilling equipment) that could be used as nuclear detonators to Iraq and Libya in the 1990's. And during this time Cheney as CEO of Halliburton bitched about sanctions against countries like Iran and Libya were motivated by "domestic politcal pressure".

        My only point is, I guess, is if anyone had access to aiding nuclear weapons proliferation in Iran, as has been accused here of the Democrats, these guys have had obvious oppurtunities over the last ten- twelve years. Perhaps that could be thrown back at Corsi.

        "the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad... for the multitude of thine inequity, and the Great Hatred" - violent femmes

        by Tirge Caps on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:11:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ollie North (none)
         Don't forget Ollie did bring them a cake and a bible, while working out the arms for hostages details.  

      Winning without Delay.

      by ljm on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:07:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't this a little like (4.00)
    yelling fire in a crowded theater???

     What will they do next set up a concentration camp for Democrats and put us behind barbed wire?

    These wingnuts are constantly comparing lefties to terrorists/communists/socialist/the anti-christ or the enemy du jour. Whatever will get them the most political bang for the buck.

    They did it before the campaign and they are doing it now. Next they will be saying that AARP is serving yellow cake to Iranian leaders.

     If there is one group of people that I truly can not stand it is these SBVT types that ooze hatred.

    I would love to see these smear mongers get smeared in their own fecal matter.. To me they are like thinly veiled, cross burning KKK.

    I hate them. (what can I say) They helped steal my country for the Republicans with a little help from Bob Novak and his son.

    After I calm myself I will try and think of a brilliant constructive counter strategy.

    People vote for sunshine, not for gloom and doom!

    by missliberties on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:18:54 PM PST

  •  why not sue? (none)
    I'd love to see his "facts" shot down in court, plus see him pay a hefty fine.

    I also like one of the ideas above--dig up his dirt and publicize it.

  •  "Corsi, meanwhile, plans to relocate (4.00)
    ... from New Jersey to Massachusetts to establish residency and run for Senate against Kerry in 2008" from the Daily News article.

    StevetheWeave says: HAW, HAW, HAW.  Kerry in a serious landslide.  Watch out Obama -- Kerry might top your % over Keyes.

  •  IMHO, these are the correct responses (4.00)
    No requests for an apology. No crying to anyone else to make them stop. Just utter contempt and ridicule.

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:36:36 PM PST

  •  Some gems from Corsi (4.00)
    A few I dug up...

    On Islam: "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion"

    On Catholicism: "Boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press"

    On Muslims: "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together"

    On "John F*ing Commie Kerry": "After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal grandparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry?"

    Isn't the Democratic Party the official SODOMIZER PROTECTION ASSOCIATION of AMERICA -- oh, I forgot, it was just an accident that Clintoon's first act in office was to promote "gays in the military." RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together. (11/18/2001)

    Just don't let anybody put a tablet with the Ten Commandments in front of the school where that girl wants to wear a Muslim scarf -- OH, No --- then the RATS would complain. Anti-Christian, Anti-American -- just like their Presidential Candidate -- Jean Francois Kerrie. (03/31/2004)

    Perfect Liberal -- lesbian, self-absorbed, hates America, anxious to impose her values on everybody else.

    Too bad the plane didn't crash into the TV set of the NBC show "THE LEFT WING" -- especially when Martin Sheen was "acting." (06/07/2003)

    Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

    by Barbara Morrill on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:37:49 PM PST

  •  Thank you Mr. Corsi... (4.00)
    ...for giving us the ammo to bury the right.

    Let me check the historical records. When I look at Iran-Contra it's odd, but it appears to me to be a Republican administration. Mr. Corsi, what led you to believe George H.W. Bush, Oliver North, John Negroponte, etc, are Democrats?

    So, Mr. Corsi, why do you think these Iran-Contra cabal members are democrats? Coul you please answer for us how paying Iranians to hold hostages while arming terrorists at the behest of George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan was doen at the behest of democrats? Do you think those people answer to Democrats? Or are you just still mad at John Kerry for trying to prosecute criminals in the U.S. Government? Is that what this is about, your grudge against people who think the rule of law means something?

    BTW, Mr. Corsi, why does President Bush think it's OK for the radical islamists in Pakistan to have nuclear weapons and to sell that technology throughout the middle east? I understand Mr. Bush, G.W., made them apologize for doing this. Do you think such an apology is suffient to protect America?

    Or, Mr. Corsi, is it just that your head has disappeared so far up your own ass that you actually think what you smell means everything is coming up roses? For the record Mr. Corsi, your shit does stink. However, it would seem that you and the SCLM are the only one's who can't smell it.

    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. -Tom Paine

    by Alumbrados on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 02:50:49 PM PST

  •  Gannon co-author (4.00)
    Biden might be close to the truth than he knows. Below is a Gannon article and then a brief description of Corsi's book. It will be interesting to see how much of Gannon gets into the book.

    Kerry Taking Campaign Contributions From Pro-Iranian Group
    Talon News ^ | October 15, 2004 | Jeff Gannon
    Posted on 10/15/2004 6:22:44 AM PDT by No Surrender Monkey
    The chairman of a pro-Iranian democracy group is charging that the campaign of Sen. John Kerry has been accepting political contributions from a lobbying group promoting the agenda of the mullah rulers of Iran. Aryo Pirouznia, leader of the Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iraq (SMCCDI) says that backers of the regime in Tehran are channeling hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Kerry campaign.
    During a press conference in Washington on Thursday, Pirouznia identified several individuals who have close ties to the Democratic presidential candidate. The most prominent of them is Hassan Nemazee, a New York investment banker and a member of the board of the American-Iranian Council (AIC). A chief goal of the lobbying group is the removal of U.S. sanctions against Iran.
    Once nominated by President Bill Clinton to be U.S. ambassador to Argentina, Nemazee has raised more than $100,000 for Kerry. Nemazee withdrew his name from consideration following allegations of improper business dealings.
    On March 19, 2004, Nemazee was listed as a vice chairman by the Kerry campaign, and on June 18, 2004, CBS News reported that Nemazee was part a group that raised more than $500,000.
    Other key Kerry fundraisers with similar ties include Susan Akbarpour, a recent immigrant from Iran whom the campaign lists as raising between $50,000 and $100,000 and her husband, Faraj Aelaei, a telecommunications executive raising the same amount.
    Iran has been alternately threatening to develop nuclear weapons and insisting that it needs uranium for energy production. During the first presidential debate, Kerry suggested that he would provide nuclear fuel to Iran.
    Kerry was critical of President George W. Bush, who called Iran a member of the "Axis of Evil" along with North Korea and Iraq when it was controlled by the regime of Saddam Hussein. Kerry lamented that the U.S. passed up an opportunity to join the Great Britain, France, and Germany in engaging Iran.
    Kerry said, "I think the United States should have offered the opportunity to provide the nuclear fuel, test them, see whether or not they were actually looking for it for peaceful purposes."
    The Democrat's web site reiterates the "global test" he proposes for the mullah government. Kerry's plan is to "call their bluff by organizing a group of states to offer Iran the nuclear fuel they need for peaceful purposes and take back the spent fuel so they cannot divert it to build a weapon. If Iran does not accept this offer, their true motivations will be clear."
    In one of his public statements about Iran, Kerry said, "I will be prepared early on to explore areas of mutual interest with Iran, just as I was prepared to normalize relations with Vietnam a decade ago."
    Following Kerry's advocacy on behalf of the communist government of Vietnam, Hanoi awarded a contract to Boston real estate firm Colliers International. At the time, the senator's cousin Stuart Forbes was head of the company.
    The Kerry campaign won't comment on the individuals in question.
    But Corsi refused to provide me with galleys of his book, saying that with the publication date a month away, it was way too early for publicity. But my colleague Richard Sisk of the Daily News Washington bureau, obtained the galleys.
    Sisk sent a summary: "Fellow named Hassan Nemazee apparently is the archfiend of Corsi's plot. ... Nemazee evilness connector supposedly is something called the American Iranian Council, for which he used to be a board member.
    "Page 255 says: 'Hassan Nemazee ... one of John Kerry's top fund-raisers in his 2004 presidential campaign, was a board member of the AIC. Nemazee funded a long list of Democratic party candidates. ... At every event where Democratic candidates have been present, the AIC has been certain to press its agenda to restore economic and diplomatic ties between Iran and the United States."
    But it turns out that Nemazee served on the AIC board with respected academics, former Sen. Bennett Johnston (D-La.), Halliburton CEO David Lesar and a former vice chairman of ChevronTexaco, among other worthies.

    •  Pissing in the wind (none)
        Everytime these people pop up with a new one, I get a mental image of "Bulldog" pissing in the wind and I don't have to use my imagination.  The pictures were all over the internets.  It's a total association in my head now and apparently it is in Biden's.  

      Winning without Delay.

      by ljm on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:04:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I knew there was nuance to this (none)
      M Simon on Power and Control mentioned that Kerry offered giving the Iranians nuclear fuel. Taking the spent fuel actually makes sense, as well as the ability to monitor the given fuel.
  •  More targets of the book (4.00)
    From New York Daily News (same article linked in diary),

    Sisk sent a summary: "Fellow named Hassan Nemazee apparently is the archfiend of Corsi's plot. ... Nemazee evilness connector supposedly is something called the American Iranian Council, for which he used to be a board member.

    "Page 255 says: 'Hassan Nemazee ... one of John Kerry's top fund-raisers in his 2004 presidential campaign, was a board member of the AIC. Nemazee funded a long list of Democratic party candidates. ... At every event where Democratic candidates have been present, the AIC has been certain to press its agenda to restore economic and diplomatic ties between Iran and the United States."

    But it turns out that Nemazee served on the AIC board with respected academics, former Sen. Bennett Johnston (D-La.), Halliburton CEO David Lesar and a former vice chairman of ChevronTexaco, among other worthies.

    Yesterday Nemazee - a wealthy Manhattan financier, U.S. citizen and Democratic Party donor who was Kerry's New York fund-raising chairman - told me that Corsi is risking a slander suit if the book says he's an agent of the Iranian government.

    So is Corsi going after Halliburton now, too?

    •  I didn't get this part (none)
      I'm glad you brought that up because I don't understand the following passage:

      How much difference is there between Nemazee's views and President Bush's?

      "Not a lot," he answered.

      Then how is this guy a Democratic fundraiser? Am I missing something?

      •  Just re: Iran, I think (none)
        I think Nemazee was just referring to his views on Iran.  In the paragraph before it mention he fled after the fall of the Shah, and quotes him, "I wouldn't trust the mullahs as far as I could throw them. My belief is that the Iranian government is trying to obtain nuclear capability and will do whatever it takes."

        For what it's worth, I bet there isn't "a lot" of difference between Kerry's "views on Iran" and Bush's either - depending on what you mean by "a lot", and also given that their views on what to do about it would be quite different.

  •  AQ Khan (none)
    Man. Why does the name A.Q. Khan keep running through my head when I hear shit like this?

    Could it be because the Bushies did squat about him,  notwithstanding Bush's claim to have "brought him to justice," and even supported pardoning him.

    So now.  Pakistan has the bomb.  They are our "friend?" and AQ Khan's "justice" is being a Pakistani National Hero.

    What. The. Fuck?

    John "Death Squad" Negroponte, Supporter ofTerrorist Insurgents.

    by MRL on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:04:06 PM PST

  •  Go for you have our support (none)
    This has got to stop!  After using our image in the anti-AARP ad on without our permission the gloves are off!

    Please help us; we have set up a legal fund to fight the illegal use of our image in the anti-AARP ad. Send to PayPal - Thank you!

    by RickyMonet on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:15:08 PM PST

    •  Thanks (none)
      That means a lot coming from you. These attacks are all part of a web of destruction that could care less who it entangles. This is total war politics, the political equivalent of Shaman's March. I wish you luck in your fight against these people, and please know that I and the others in this community will be right beside you for the duration.

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:58:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't Halliburton doing business with Iran? (none)
    Corsi should be careful...the administration is far closer to Iran than they would like us to believe.

    Of course, this tactic isn't new.  Whenever they thought that the President had a vulnerability, they claimed (loudly) that Kerry had it...flip-flopper is the biggest example of that.  So I am not surprised that they would try to pin the treason on the Democrats, lest someone notice that Cheney's bread is buttered with an Iranian knife.

  •  counterpoint (and I *am* a bona fide liberal) (none)
    do we want to mirror the pre-F9/11 efforts - the contra efforts that made everyone eager to see F9/11?  

    I agree about being ready.  but how much publicity do we really want to give these boneheads?

    the only way to win may be to get out in front of it, but in a positive, "Look at us and all the great we've done" way - to announce the reality, and explain why it's good, going on offense rather than defense.  

    No matter how cynical you become ... you can never keep up.

    by LegalSpice on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:40:58 PM PST

    •  I agree, but... (none)
      that we have to be careful, but we can't let him get the initiate and set the debate. To minimize the impact of the publicity we give him, we follow the line the Senate Dems are taken: ridicule, ridicule, deride, and ridicule. We treat this guy's work as the garbage it is, and take the fight to him. And we also use this as an excuse to bring up as much of the right wing's dirty laundry regarding Iran as we can, so that this becomes a headache for them too.

      If that means he sells a few more books, okay, but I'd rather that then have these charges gain even an ounce of credibility. We've seen it again, and again, a non-response to this type of attack almost always ends in us losing the initiative and playing pick up against something we could have shut down before it got out the gates.

      The only way this sort of thing is ever going to stop is if we stop it. No hoping it will go away, no letting it burn it's self out. If they start it, we have to be ready to put it out!

      Enough of this "it'll blow over" crap, it's game time.

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:06:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't over-react (none)
        The situation is completely different from that of the presidential campaign.

        We shouldn't stoop to actually debating Corsi on any of his lunatic claims.  We need to sidestep that completely.  Instead, let's use him.  We should hold him up as a prime example of today's GOP...complete with quotes from his "Free Republic" rants.

        Make him a laughingstock and a pariah.  Make him the epitome of the "Fantasy-Based Community".

        I propose that we make a project of digging up old quotes by this guy, and pointing out how they demonstrate the GOP mainstream.

        •  I full agree with you (none)
          About what the response to this should be. What I want to do is not only treat it as a joke (and let's face it, it's pretty funny), and paint Corzi with the freeper quotes, I want to take Corzi and paint the GOP with him.

          This stuff goes on because they think they can get away with it unchallenged. And based on our past reactions that's pretty much been true. The sooner we stop treating things like this as something that will blow over on it's own, the sooner it stops altogether.

          How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

          by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 09:45:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Right! (none)
            The idea is to make sure that when his agent comes calling the bookers for the TV shows have full knowledge of who Corsi is, how out of the mainstream crazy his brand of wingnuttery is, and they hang up on him.

            He'll get on Fox and he'll get on Scarborough becauyse they're fundamentally wingnut oriented.  But that should be it.

            It's sad that 20 years ago this kind of freak would never have been able to sell anything anywhere except from the back of a van at a militia meeting.  

  •  Compare with original SBL's efforts for contrast (none)
    To help establish a base line of Corsi's and the SBL's degree of fabrication it would be helpful to be able to point people to a summary of the original Swift Boat issues, point-by-point, with objective, non-partisan rebuttals, with credible references, and a summary of the players and their subsequent retractions/payoffs/jail terms/etc.

    Does anyone have a url?


  •  The styx river-boat veterans (4.00)
    for satan
  •  One word (4.00)

    Still doing business with the ayatollahs?


    And when are they going to quit?

    "We have decided to wind down our operations there while fulfilling our existing contracts and commitments," Lesar said on the conference call.

    In other words, "We won't seek new business in Iran.

    So when do those commitments expire?  Well,

    Dems giving Iran the bomb?  One more word: Bullshit

    It is no accident that Liberty and Liberal are the same word.

    by Sorceress Sarah on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:57:14 PM PST

  •  Democrats and Iran (4.00)
      Iran has never been a fan of Democrats, waiting until after Carter was out of office to release the hostages.  It was The Republican Reagan crowd doing the arms for hostages thing.  Then, there's Halliburton doing business in Iran.  For crying out loud, who was paying Chalabi to be a double agent with Iran again?  Oh yeah, the neocons at Pentagon and Cheney.  Iran doesn't need anybody here to be nuclear.  They are pals with Russia and no doubt got what they need from the AQ Kahn network, which BTW he got off during the Dubya years.  Dems are clean when it comes to Iran.  Can't say that for the other side of the isle.

    Winning without Delay.

    by ljm on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 03:58:53 PM PST

  •  Deliberately misunderstand and conflate (4.00)
    ...Apparently Corsi has a new book coming out in which the pope gave nuclear weapons to Iran in exchange for letting him molest Moslem children and the Democrats somehow failed to stop it...

    Let him explain how the 'Pope's approval of molestation' isn't related.

    "So let me get this straight- they believe in Social Darwinism, but not um, actual Darwinism??"

    by bonobo on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:14:53 PM PST

  •  Challabi atooges ahould talk! (none)
    After telling about US braking the Iranian encription code to Iranian Spy Challabi, and clearing the path for an Iranian friendly government in Iraq they have the gall to call Dems traitors ?!??!

    I wouldn't remind the public about being to cozy with Iran if I was in Bush's shoes...

    In the future people will wonder why most didn't challenge Bush's excesses
    The truth? Complacency was easier

    by lawnorder on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:31:14 PM PST

  •  Can you say "Projection" (none)
    Let's see now, I seem to remember that there was an opposition party that once negotiated with terrorist Iran behind the sitting president's back for their party's political gain.  Wasn't that Republicans who negotiated with the Ayatollah bearing arms and technology in exchange for not releasing Aamerican hostages?  Wasn't it eventually called Iran-contra or something like that?  It all started with treasonous (really) dealings with Iran by Republicans. Oh shit, who remembers that far back anyway?......He doth protest too much...
  •  is there a reason they are not being sued? (none)
    Lawsuits are the only way to put this to a stop.
    •  Yes!! (none)
      Sue, sue, sue!  Make them pay a consequence.  Put them in an environment where "facts" are established, connections and motives exposed, and there is no place to hide.

      If the facts and truth are adjudicated in interviews w/ the media and posts on the web, they can hide using their usual sophistical tricks.  

      Therefore, make them prove their claims in an arena where they don't decide what constitutes court.  

  •  Accusations in a mirror (4.00)
    The name "Acusations in a Mirror" came from a  ptopaganda guidebook on how to get the Rwandans to hate their tutsi population.

    AIt consists on accusing your opponent of doing what your side is doing. It has 3 main advantages:

    • Already sets up a patzi to blame for the crime, in case there's public outrage.

    • Turns suspicion away from your side. People will think "If he is dennoucing the crime he can't be the perpetrator"

    • Smears your opponents. Even if they get cleared of wrongdoing, some suspicion will always linger in the public's eyes

    Although this technique can be used as innocently as farting and yelling "Who farted" to avoid suspicion, it can be used very effectively to plant hate for your opponents.

    It is a Goebbels like technique pioneered by those butchers of Rwanda, who managed to stir their potential voters into such a frenzy that they willingly obeyed the leading party's call to exterminate all members of the opposing faction, and anyone who refused to cooperate with their genocide.

    More details here

    In the future people will wonder why most didn't challenge Bush's excesses
    The truth? Complacency was easier

    by lawnorder on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 04:49:30 PM PST

  •  Being in bed with Iran (none)
    Is a home game for Republicans and Russians.
  •  Jerome Corsi is the epitome of today's GOP (4.00)
    I think we need to hold Corsi up, along with Coulter, as prime examples of what passes for the "mainstream" modern GOP.  And provide quotes and examples.

    Let's not run from this.  As you note, Corsi's a rich target.  Let's spread the love around a little.

    •  This looks like a job for the internets! (none)
      People with their own blogs (as opposed to people like me who just ride on Kos's coat tails) might consider an entry on this subject with some of the choicer quotes Corzi's givee us.

      How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

      by Goldfish on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 05:32:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh my... (none)
        the thought of using their own words against them, early and often at every talk-show opportunity is delicious.  We should get a few people copies of their books, give them a website and let what would naturally occur... occur.  The entire Democratic party should be ready to debunk these two particular frothy mouthed idiots at the drop of a hat.
  •  Daily Howler (4.00)
    Bob Somerby over at the Daily Howler has done a bunch of really good pieces on Corsi and his whole lying crew.  If you want a veritable list of everything Corsi has lied about (or at least a bunch of it.. everything would require a goddamn encyclopedia), check it out.

    There's a search box on the left, just type in Corsi

    In Afghanistan, they call them the Taliban. Here, we call them Republicans

    by ragnark on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 05:39:23 PM PST

  •  Why are talking about dems and Iran, (none)
    when the Iranian spy Chalabi was at the State of the Union address a year ago as guest of honor of Bush.  and now this Iranian spy is being offered the Treasury position in the new government.

    Tell this idiot to closer to his master's house than ours.

  •  The idiots will jump onboard (none)
    It really doesnt matter what we do.  The Reicht will jump on this .  They love this kinda stuff.

    I laugh at these assclowns

    Lifes too short when youre this good.

    by ksecus on Thu Feb 24, 2005 at 06:33:18 PM PST

  •  "Rising truth lifts no Swift Boats..." (none)
  •  Highly Recommended (none)

    "Help the Bombardier!" "I'm the bombardier...I'm OK!" "Then help Him, help him!"

    by Bulldawg on Fri Feb 25, 2005 at 09:01:38 AM PST

  •  Head up from "This Week in Fascism" (none)
         I have a policy of letting diary authors know what I said about their diaries in my series on "This Week in Fascism."

         Come on over and let me know what you think about my comments. I also remind the Authors that I probably recommended their diaries and am consistantly the top recommended each week. Hint! Hint!

         without further ado here is what I said.

         Goldfish found an article that could put every leftist's feet literally into the fire when she announced the details of the SWIFT BOAT LIAR'S NEW SMEAR: Democrats giving Iran the bomb. Yes folks we may soon become part of the Iranian terror regime when this hit's Rush, Oreilly, Hume, and Hannity's airwaves come Monday morning. Jerome Corsi, co-author of the slimy smear-piece Unfit for Command has gone on the offensive against Congressional Democrats, accusing them of taking money form the Iranians, and somehow helping them develop nuclear weapons -in short, treason. When this starts being believed by the wingers they may consider every Democratic organization conspirators with the “Axis of Evil.” Since there is time before Corsi starts his book promotion tour Goldfish has volunteered to be the point man for the counteroffensive to make this whole issue a non story. I just hope there is a way to keep Corsi's book sales down.

    "It's about the accountability, stupid." Thomas Davis 2005

    by Tomtech on Sun Feb 27, 2005 at 09:04:48 PM PST

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