to women. At the core it is about abortion rights.
Many of the women that post here are apparently still steaming about the support for pro-life Langevin and pro-life Casey.
I read one poster who said that this add issue made her realize how important it was for her to vote for Chefee who is a strong supporter of a womens right to choose.
I don't think Chefee has an opinion on the pie add, but that shows you what is driving this.
More below the fold:
I would hope that people can stop with the "sky is falling" diaries and the posts about their daughters abortion rights being taken away and about being forced by society to get fake breasts.
Over at Booman it has gotten absurd with posts about loosing the right to vote to starting a womens party to declaring that women are human beings to talk of repressing womens natural sexuality.
Here are some of the posts:
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I know that some people don't understand why some of us are so fucking angry at Kos right now that we can't see straight.
It's not about the fucking ad. It's about the fact that those of us who think that there will be no politics to fight about if we don't protect the right to privacy have been told repeatedly that our issues don't matter. That we should be patient, get in line, wait our turn.
HOW MANY MORE YEARS ARE WE SUPPOSED TO WAIT?
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One of the bright bulbs over at Kos referred to women upset with Markos as "menstruating she devils." So, I've run with it. Menstruating She-Devils. Teehee. Laughing through my rage... Who says that feminists don't have a sense of humour?
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But the level of aggressiveness and sheer rudeness was hard to stomach and now I realize I don't have to absorb that anymore in order to get those other things I want: information, debate, wit, etc. This place seems like a healthier, happier version of Kos.
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I left because it was damn disheartening to hear people you thought you knew being either totally callous and chauvinistic or completely clueless about the real issue. The pie ad? They really thought that was the issue all along?
My time at dkos gave me a voice and enough self confidence to know that today was the day to leave.
I'm excited about this place. It feels familiar and welcoming.
Cherish forever what makes you unique, 'cuz you're really a yawn if it goes. - Bette Midler
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yep. Ultimately, it wasn't about the pie. It was about being told that we didn't matter. This is a great place to be. Welcome.
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I, too, was deeply troubled by the pie fight incident, not the ad, but the incident. I think, perhaps, you have hit on exactly why I was not affected by the ad. My views on the matter can be found here, should you ever log onto the site again. Leave us say, I think we are in accord on this matter. So, I too, am fleeing the frat boy madness and dismissive attitudes. I'm glad I will be able to hear your lovely literary voice here.
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The saddest thing is that all that was required was some basic RESPECT. Something that the front-pagers, and far too many of the commentors in the threads, don't understand.
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am not going to leave Dkos, even though that shitnasty post he made pissed me off massively.
The reason being, even though I was pissed, there is a certain amount of sense in getting the paid ads.
My puter went by by last week so I missed most of the shitstorm.And glad I did ! Tit shows are a part of life ,I guess.
What I object to is the lack of respect .
I am not a prude by any means. (heh).But to dis your female members like that is just rude.
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It's the "women's studies set," Markos' words that eats away at me. Classifying, not listening. Labeling, not listening. Defending, not listening. Aggression, not accommodating (tolerance); winning, not process.
Only once before did I come across that labeling: women's studies. And I felt the same way.
It's like taking a person's lifetime and jamming it into a bullet, so it can be fired back at you, making you a victim.
A life, that's what it was. And I think every woman who fought the fight through the 60s, 70s and beyond understands that it wasn't something "out there." It's in here, inside. We lived it. Lived, not studied. Lived, not joined. Lived, outgrowing a marriage; lived, raising sons and daughters; lived, fighting for a job ruled out because of gender (and winning); lived under glass ceilings; lived in the face of cruelty masked as humor; lived, goddamnit!
"If you prick me, do I not bleed?"
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Like Maryscott, I'll probably continue to post at dkos (Can we shift the fratboy culture? Inquiring minds want to know.....)--but missed y'all and came over to say hi. I thought the boob jokes from so-called progressive males went out in the early '80's? They are so not-getting-it--"It's not the ad, stupid, it's your juvenile and disrespectful response to even being called on it!" This gets so old.....
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THE issue in the 2004 elections was, to me, the judiciary. The Supreme Court, in particular. If the Right has its way, privacy rights will be swiss cheese--and apply only to (some) Christians and corporations. There's a laundry list of reasons that people should have voted for every Democrat they could of--and particularly for Kerry--even if they had to hold their noses and run to the nearest bar to get roaring drunk in order to feel ok....
But the judiciary and privacy were the keystone. Which is being termite-eaten even as we speak.
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I never saw the ad, didn't read Markos' comments - but what I have been reading at DailyKos today has convinced me that where I belong is here, with the women I respect and whom I can trust to respect me.
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Last week, O'Connor said women being allowed to vote was "not necessarily" in the best interest of the nation. In fact, she thinks the 19th Amendment began the slide down a slippery slope for America in terms of traditional family values.
If women have the short end of any stick, it's because people with views like hers still exist.
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We saw it during the suffrage movement (starting with Abigail Adams after chiding her husband not to forget "the ladies"). We saw it during the civil rights movement. We heard plenty of it last year regarding the gay rights movement. This year, after gays were pushed back in the closet ("gay marriage cost us the election!"), after all of the promises to African American voters were betrayed ONE DAY after the election, it's time to go after the feminists again.
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Maybe if they figure out that if they consider everyone,(and not just at election time) gay people, Blacks, feminists, Native Americans etc and really fight for us all they could maybe just maybe win in a landslide instead of being so afraid to offend certain groups. Which instead just makes them look oh I don't know-maybe the word flip/floppy comes to mind...speaking of mind(mine) it's almost 2 in the morning so I hope this makes a modicum of sense.
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However, answer is not to jettison women, gays, minorities, etc. in hopes that what remains is a "unified message."
What remains is a small group of potential voters - white middle to upper-middle class males who are not particularly concerned with anyone but themselves. Who is left out? Well, the women, the gays, the minorities, and white middle to upper-middle class males who care about others.
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It is time for those on the left commit to each other, and our shared ideals of fairness, equal opportunity and our faith in a shared humanity. It is time to raise our voices, and make it very clear that vague promises will not be accepted from a party of corporate insiders that has shown itself repeatedly willing to sell out those most at risk in our society. We must form alliances, a progressive, liberal bloc to put pressure on the Democratic Party.
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This is a glimpse into what is being said about this issue. There is also an interesting diary about home birth vs. hospital birth and a few more about women being forced to have abortions with hangers in alley and losing the right to vote.
Hopefully, this will all blow over soon, but people need to be more respectful in their commments and take the choice issue seriously even if you don't agree.