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Crooks and Liars attempted to place this ad in the Young Republican National Conference official program:

Their response:

We are sorry but we must regretfully reject this advertisement. We feel that the tone of the message is too negative.

Check out Jesus' General for the "special ops" planned for the convention.

Update: Great recruitment poster, courtesy of Mike Tidmus:

Update: I got the convention dates screwed up. Here they are:

College Republicans National Convention, this weekend June 24-26, Crystal Gateway Marriott, Crystal City, Arlington, VA

Young Republicans National Convention, July 6-10, Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas, NV.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:11 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  LOLOLOLOL! (none)
    No commentary needed.

    This Far and No Further
    Combo of historical timeline and selected commentary

    by Black Max on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:07:35 PM PDT

    •  I'll comment. (4.00)
      Things that we make on our own by parroting our preconceived stereotypes will be instantly identified and shot down (no pun intended) by the other side.  I say we pay for actual military ad space in those newspapers and magazines.

      Sincerity may even convince those who have been merely toeing the party line to actually take a stand and join.  Either way we win -- the young Repubs are forced to look at what they are spouting and either put up or shut up and the military gets some support if they decide to grow some balls and enlist.

    •  Actually (none)
      My comment would be identical to yours except with more O's and L's.  Otherwise, that was perfect.

      --- Idealist (n) - An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.

      by dspiewak2634 on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:23:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So revealing... (none)
      yet completely unsurprising.  Too "negative?"  Duh.   It's not a pleasant subject for anyone's ass.  Sheesh.

  •  Would someone (4.00)
    PLEASE remove the urine from the elephant icon?!

    I'd love to promote the meme but I'm not about to place a sticker of a pissing animal on my car, etc.

  •  C.H.I.T.s (4.00)
    chickenhawks in traning.


    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    check out Daily Gotham, yo!

    by lipris on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:08:18 PM PDT

  •  Genius (none)
    Pure genius.
  •  the problem is in the design (none)
    and the wording.

    I'm sure there's a way we can reword/design it to make it more appealing...

    Support our terrific open source media project! Donate to ePluribus Media today!

    by Timroff on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:09:22 PM PDT

    •  Yes, don't stop. (4.00)
      They didn't like the wording. So let's work with them. What kind of wording would they "accept"?
      •  My idea goes something like this (4.00)

        Support our terrific open source media project! Donate to ePluribus Media today!

        by Timroff on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:32:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  my thought (3.75)
          is we need to cut out as much snark as possible, while still hammering home the idea that the military desperately needs warm bodies.

          As much as I appreciate snark -- and manuy of y'all know that firsthand -- this is a time where presenting a serious, sober, slick message might actually work. So let's use the rethuglican's frames and create a positive message of support and honor.

          "You're strong. You Care about our country. You know the right thing to do is sign up now."

          Support our terrific open source media project! Donate to ePluribus Media today!

          by Timroff on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:36:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly. (none)
            Take all their pseudo-patriotic rhetoric and treat it seriously.

            "Now, more than ever, your country needs you.  Show the world your love for America; show them what real patriotism looks like.  Enlist today."

            All of life is an unanswered question, but let's still believe in the dignity and importance of the questions. - Tennessee Williams

            by Leslie in CA on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:09:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Snark is our friend (4.00)
            We should not be trying to reach a compromise here.  We should be casting our differences in sharp relief.  Our goal is not to get an ad into their program, but to get them to reject it and then to make hay from that.

            If we got your ad copy into the program, then they would be in a position to point to it as something good for them.

            Liberty and justice for all

            by lovable liberal on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:47:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  perhaps (none)
              but our constant message -- at least, as I read Markos' message -- has been that that their hypocrisy is tantamount to treason, and that if they truly were patriotic, they would be enlisting.

              So why not actually encourage them to enlist, using language they are familiar with?

              I figure it will solve two problems:

              1, that it will force the Bushites to end the fiasco faster, since now their own kids will be in harms way, and,

              2, it will take the Young Rethugs out of our hair for a while, and maybe teach them a thing or two about reality.

              Support our terrific open source media project! Donate to ePluribus Media today!

              by Timroff on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 03:11:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Counterfactuals don't solve anything (none)
                No ad will get the the YRs to enlist in any significant numbers.  Their hypocrisy is irremediable.

                They aren't our target, anyway, because most of them are unconvincible of anything we believe in.

                No, our target is those who have not drunk the kool-aid, who can still be convinced that they have been sold a pig in a poke by sleazebags chickenhawks.

                Snark lays out in sharp relief the YRs hypocrisy - and their parents' - and that's what we need to convince the persuadable middle.

                Liberty and justice for all

                by lovable liberal on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 03:47:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Re: My thoughts (none)
            I agree with you.  We do need to make it non-offensive / non-combative yet still drive the point home.  I'm thinking of making T-shirts to give out at the Young Repub convention here in Vegas that says, "If you support the war, you should enlist!  We can't win without our supporters!"  
        •  Grind one edge of their frame into the other (4.00)
          That's why I think the recruitment poster up top is great.

          I don't want any of these poor deluded kids to actually volunteer under false pretenses. I want it made clear to them that why they don't want to enlist for exactly the same reasons why Libruls don't like the war.

          That is, it's a pointless exercise in spending of lives and money, that is only increasing terrorism, and the only possible real-world reason why we're there is for the oil.

          "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

          by jbeach on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:51:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Don't forget the Marines... (none)
          ...I'm sure there are a few good men and women in the group of convention-goers.
          •  I originally was going to use (none)
            and let people pick their favorite branch of service, but the original ad that was declined references joining the Infatry directly, so I kept to that portion of the script.

            Besides, if they walk to their nearest recruiter they get to see all of their choices right away...

            Support our terrific open source media project! Donate to ePluribus Media today!

            by Timroff on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 07:46:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  This Message is Kinda Negative Too... (4.00)

    There is a wisdom of the head, and a wisdom of the heart.-Charles Dickens

    by Ranting Roland on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:10:03 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, We Need to Focus on the Positives... (4.00)
    ...of being at war, like the rising stock prices for prosthesis manufacturers.
    •  it's only positive (none)
      when someone else dies.  Then you do the goal line dance.  But when you die, well....

      "You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment." Frances Urquhart (House of Cards)

      by Yankee in exile on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:29:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It may sound morbid (none)
      But my investment club owns Stryker for that very reason...

      I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' --Goldwater, 1981

      by John H on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:12:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, If You Need a Reason... (none) feel better about it, one of the two principle owners--John Stryker--spends tens of millions of dollars on good causes, especially those relating to the GLBT community.  He probably put over a million dollars into combatting the same-sex marriage amendments last year.

        Feel better?

      •  Another reason to feel better... (none)
        Providing usable prostheses to wounded veterans is a very good, moral, virtuous way to make money.

        It would be far better, of course, if the soldiers were not being wounded in the first place. But given that they have been, given that these injuries are happening, making devices and developing physical therapies that help them to regain a degree of mobility and get back to being functioning members of society... is a good, good thing to do.

        They are engaged in healing a part of the harm caused by war. There's no reason to feel guilty about investing in that.

        Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

        by Canadian Reader on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 09:14:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Young Republicans... (4.00)
    ...are our nation's future, not cannon fodder!  The military should go recruit at decrepit public schools, shopping malls, and ghetto street corners, where dreams are dim and futures uncertain!

    "The American people will trust the Democratic Party to defend America when they believe that Democrats will defend other Democrats." Wesley Clark

    by The Termite on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:10:55 PM PDT

  •  Yes (none)
    Perhaps the elephant needs to be shitting as well since many of these Soccer Mamas Boys would also be shitting themselves if they actually had to fight this war.

    With a big ol' lie And a flag and a pie And a mom and a bible Most folks are just liable To buy any line Any place, any time ~ FZ

    by f furney on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:11:13 PM PDT

  •  They Can't Reject This Appeal (none)
    Oh, wait, that's right.  They are chickenhawks and hypocrites in training.  And judging from their response to the appeal, they have learned their lessons well.

    "You have much to learn, young Jedi."

               - Obi-Wan Kenobe to Luke Skywalker

    Get rid of anything the Democratic Leadership Council. Visit the weblog:

    by The Truth on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:11:14 PM PDT

  •  Press Release to news outlets (4.00)
    "Young Republicans Ban Recruiting Message in Convention Program"

    With Drudge's fancy flashing lights.

    Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

    by Benito on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:11:24 PM PDT

  •  Are Young Republicans Anti-Patriots? (4.00)
    Why are they refusing to support the troops? Do they want the terrorists to win?

    Los Blogueros Faith-based Alternative Surrealism from Washington, DC

    by chechecule on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:11:34 PM PDT

  •  Too Negative? (4.00)
    Are these people on lsd or something?

    This ad demands personal responsibility from the supposed party of personal responsibility.

    I see and argue with College Republican cowards all the time on campus and whenever I bring up the fact that they voted for Bush's agenda so they should pack up and serve in Iraq, the young Thuglicans always try to spin their way out of it.

  •  I didn't find anything negative in the wording (none)
    at all!

    I mean, it doesn't say "Go to Iraq and die in a blaze of glory!" does it?

    Tyranny goes with poverty;it's cheaper than democracy. (Larry Niven)

    by Fabian on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:12:08 PM PDT

  •  You know they (none)
    have to be waiting and ready for the General's hijinks.  

    I wonder what will happen.

  •  in other news, (4.00)
    bush changes his mind:

    Bush said he would visit Vietnam next year.

    better 35 years too late than never i guess.

    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    check out Daily Gotham, yo!

    by lipris on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:13:16 PM PDT

  •  asddf (3.75)
    Ha ha!

    However with the high rate of psychological problems veterans of conflict return home with, do we really want to be encouraging young Republicans to be going off to war.  I mean aren't they already batty and paranoid enough. <snark>

    George W. Bush makes Reagan look smart, Nixon look honest, and his dad look coherent.

    by Dave the pro on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:13:18 PM PDT

  •  NICE (none)

    The best quote from StarWars III - "So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
    read my blog!

    by hfiend on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:17:03 PM PDT

  •  How about simply resurrecting the old (4.00)
    classic Uncle Sam "I Want YOU" poster from World War I -- allegedly "the most famous poster in the world"?

    I doubt they could say anything about that.

    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

    by Donna in Rome on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:21:16 PM PDT

  •  I guess... (none)
    ... they're content to let us pansy ass Democrats do their fighting for them.


  •  Don't give them an 'out' (4.00)
    I agree that the tone of that is a bit problematic - "talk is cheap" is pretty aggressive.

    Someone needs to take a WW-II era poster, update it to the minimal amount necessary, and submit that.  Submit it to liberal outlets as well.

    If the liberal pubs publish it (with a straight face) while the conservative pubs reject it as too negative, at the very same time that the liberals point out that the war was a mistake (but we still need a strong army to hunt ObL in Afghanistan, keep N. Korea from having adventures in S. Korea, etc.) and the conservatives are still gung ho over Iraq, then we'll have something.

    ObChickenHawkDisclosure:  44 and no previous military experience.  Even recruiters aren't that desperate.  Yet.

    •  Nice. (none)
      Keep it visible, keep it fresh. While they're downplaying the visual, we can upplay it, and seem non partisan!
    •  forty-four (none)
      actually you've only missed it by two years.

      that's right - the army is now accepting officer candidates up to 42:

      the Army hopes to attract 300 soldiers up to age 42 to attend Officer Candidate School and become second lieutenants. Using the same age criteria, they also hope to attract an additional 300 civilians with college degrees as officer candidates. The Army National Guard and Army Reserve are working on similar programs, according to the memo.

      The new criteria establish a clear departure from current rules, which state an applicant should not reach "your 29th birthday prior to training" and be in "good moral standing." The average age for an Officer Candidate School graduate is 27, Army officials said.

      According to the memo, soldiers age 18 to 42 may apply, and division commanders may recommend waiver of minor civil or military offenses.

      so i guess we don't have to limit ourselves to the college republicans after all.

      l'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers

      by zeke L on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 11:33:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I hope in the third photo (none)
    The guy in back has the courtesy to give a reacharound.
  •  That soldier pic is fucking great! (none)
    I needed a good laugh today!
  •  Flack (none)
    Publicize the Kos Post. Embarrass the young GOPERS.
    We are the choirmembers, Rev. Kos. Preach to the congregation, not to us. We are here to support you.
  •  That soldier on the left (none)
    looks like Jeff Gannon/Guckert to can the freepers resist that?
  •  Right after the Election (none)
    I was in an email battle with a friend's husband over the war. They have a 26 year old loser duffous for a son and I told the father if he so believed in the war why not tell his son to go. His response was that he would support the son's decision to enlist but that it would have to be the son's decision. That, I believe will be parents pat answer.He also told me when I called Bush and liar and that there were not any WMDs he wrote back to say he thought I was more intelligent than that, to believe the liberal media etc. I can't tell you how tempting it is to send a ranting email to him now but know that it would do absolutely no good.

    The more understanding one posesses, the less there is to say and the more there is to do.

    by Alohaleezy on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:43:03 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for not enlisting (3.85)
    I have one qualm about mocking these people for their hypocrisy in failing to enlist-- namely that I don't WANT them to enlist.   Better that they should shoot off their stupid mouths than shoot off horror weapons at foreign poor people.

    An equally funny prank would be to contact them in the name of pacifist organizations and THANK them for declining to enlist in bushite wars.

    "Overgrown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty." George Washington, 1796.

    by acquittal on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:45:48 PM PDT

  •  Maybe an overly simple question... (4.00)
    ...but has anyone even considered a letter-writing campaign to the US Army, suggesting that they send recruiters to the YRNC?  

    I don't imagine the Army caters to outright partisan ideals, but letters could be respectful and non-partisan, encouraging them to send recruiters to Vegas between the 6th-10th.

    Ain't it hard to stumble / And land in some muddy lagoon?

    by teedz on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:47:48 PM PDT

  •  That poster is AWESOME!!! (none)
    Oh my God.

    A dream: a mail-out compaign to every fundie church and truckstop in Red State America.

    "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

    by jbeach on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:48:14 PM PDT

  •  On the Ed Schultz (none)
    website he has a roster of men/women who served in the military.  Most of them are Democrats.  Republicans it seems are "all hat no cattle" when their country needs them.  
  •  Left and Right in heart-warming agreement! (3.50)
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to agree with the wingnuts from time to time - just to catch them off guard.

    For example, you might find yourself calling in to a right wing talk show...

    After schmoozing the producer for a while about how much in favor of flag-waving you are, you could say you want to thank the host for his views on the war. Then, when the producer lets you on the air, you start by saying that you agree with Rush or Sean or Bill that the war is not worth fighting.

    When he protests that he supports the president's war, you can laugh and say that, of course, actions speak louder than words - and that conservatives are dodging any actual fighting in droves. They, like so many liberals and vice president Cheney, have "other priorities."

    Instead of arguing, you simply point out that there is actually a heart-warming unanimity of opinion in America when it comes to putting one's ass on the line in Iraq: "You gotta be kidding!"

    You've heard of people voting with their feet? That's nothing compared to people voting with their ass. No amount of bluster can hide the fact that people who support this war will not lift a finger to fight it. They don't even want to pay for it!

    Agreeing is a much better way of arguing than disagreeing.

    You can move on to the topic of torture and congratulate the host on his support of this once unfairly maligned institution. You might swap jokes about American hostages being forced to defecate on themselves. Surely he'll agree that it's not so bad - especially if they've been fed a meal of honey glazed chicken beforehand.

    The list of things that we agree on in this country is staggering -  we've just got to learn to focus on our similarities instead of our differences. Let's all sing Kumbaya together America!

  •  Uh oh (4.00)
    The College Republican Convention is across the street from my apartment!!!

    I'll have to volunteer as an undercover agent.

  •  nice work (4.00)

    Those one shots are from a video game lol, great work guys
    •  hmm (none)
      may be a little too homoerotic for the fundie crowd!! lol


      by michael1104 on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:22:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they'll love it (none)
        didn't you see those studies recently that showed that homophobic males exhibited almost the same level of physical arousal as out-of-the-closet guys when shown homoerotic images?  

        and why do you think the fundies are so convinced that allowing gay marriage in san francisco endangers their own straight marriages?  if they were really so straight they'd have nothing to worry about!

        l'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers

        by zeke L on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 11:37:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I like this. (none)
      This is very good.

      Really, this is a debate about the role govenment should play in defining the boundaries of appropriate business ethics -- Eliot Spitzer

      by tlaura on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 04:55:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Is that a rifle... (4.00)
      ...or are you just happy to see me?

      "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

      by fishhead on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 05:09:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  holy nothing subtle batman! (& robin!) (none)
      Wonderfully wild...they need camo capes and a little more oil on the biceps to go with the phallic weaponry; sweet! Outrageously targets all demos, gay&hetero male&female, esp 'macho' gay&heteros of both genders with the beefcake factor, suggesting a big keg party or weapon orgie (what could be more appealing than sexualized violence), maybe targeting confused youth rebelling against fundamentalism at home. (or wingers hoping the gay population will join)
  •  I'm loving this campaign (4.00)
    I've been mulling over bumper sticker ideas and would love to see...

    "If You're Behind This War, Then Put Your Behind In This War"

    "Democracy begins in conversation." - John Dewey

    by TxTiger on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:54:38 PM PDT

  •  PRICELESS! (none)

    The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

    by Ralfast on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 01:58:27 PM PDT

  •  Is hell freezing over? (none)
    A Republican group saying an advertisement is too negative, my oh my, I had better look to the west for the Sun to rise tomorrow.

    Since the Repugs are such cowards shouldn't there be an Old Republicans also, there are so many
    more of them, they certainly don't die in combat, at least not this generation.

  •  I guess I'm not supposed to ask... (4.00)
    ...and they're not supposed to tell, but is it just me or is that poster with the soldiers a bit, well, suggestive?

    "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell

    by Mad Dog Rackham on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:14:19 PM PDT

  •  Why not appeal to their ambition. (none)
    "Enlisting looks good on a political resume."
  •  Sin City (none)
    The perfect place for Young Republicans to shine.
    •  You mean the perfect place to be hypocrites (none)
      Wow, does that mean the religious right won't be there? Or does that mean that Frist will will make a special appearance wearing nothing but a ball-gag?
      •  UGGGGH (4.00)
        {think happy thoughts}{think happy thoughts}{must not focus on image of Frist with....  AHHHHHHH}

        I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' --Goldwater, 1981

        by John H on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:33:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That recruitment poster... (none)
    ...will get alot of gay response. It's so Gannonesque. They are accepting gays now, aren't they?? I think that little sin against Dog is being "ignored" in the desperate need to fill quotas.
  •  CPAC Flashback (none)
    This latest Young Republican abomination brings back memories of the last Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC).

    As Wonkette described it:

    "CPAC: Conservatives Panting After Chicks"

  •  If they don't like that ad, how about this (4.00)
    Submit an ad asking for charitable contributions to properly equip our soldiers in harm's way.

    Surely they wouldn't reject that, would they???

    I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' --Goldwater, 1981

    by John H on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 02:29:06 PM PDT

  •  Off topic, but . . . (4.00)
    OMG!  That picture is kinda hot.  
  •  Continue (none)
    Let's continue with this campaign.  Half this country (and growing) knows this was a mistake, people who believe strongly in this war should be encouraging their supporters, families etc. to enlist.
  •  Young Repugs in Vegas, how about YearlyKos? (none)
    Does this mean we'll be having the 1st yearly Kos convention in Vegas next year as well? Maybe we could have this at the same time as the Young Reugs convention. That could be interesting.

    For me, this is more reason to have YearlyKos in Chicago. I don't know if one year is enough time to decontaminate Vegas from these guys.

  •  durbin apologizes (none)
    breaks my heart
  •  Young Republicans say they won't Enlist (4.00)
    Image hosted by

    Image hosted by

    Young Republicans support Iraq war, but not all are willing to join the fight

    By Adam Smeltz
    Posted on Wed, Sep. 01, 2004
    Knight Ridder Newspapers

    NEW YORK - Young Republicans gathered for their party's national convention... were asked: "Would you be willing to put on the uniform and go to fight in Iraq?"

    In more than a dozen interviews, Republicans in their teens and 20s said, some have friends in the military in Iraq and are considering enlisting; others said they can better support the war by working politically in the United States; and still others said they think the military doesn't need them because the U.S. presence in Iraq is sufficient.

    "Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that," said Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles.

    Lee said she supports the war but would volunteer only if the United States faced a dire troop shortage or "if there's another Sept. 11."

    "As long as there's a steady stream of volunteers, I don't see why I necessarily should volunteer," said Lee, who said she has a cousin deployed in the Middle East.

    "If there was a need presented, I would go," said Chris Cusmano, a 21-year-old member of the College Republicans organization from Rocky Point, N.Y. But he said he hasn't really considered volunteering.

    "It's always in the back of my mind - to enlist," Chase Carpenter, 16, a self-described moderate Republican visiting Manhattan this week from Santa Monica, Calif. He said he's torn over whether he'd join the military if he were 18.

    Others said they could contribute on the home front.

    "I physically probably couldn't do a whole lot" in Iraq, said Tiffanee Hokel, 18, of Webster City, Iowa, who called the war a moral imperative. She knows people posted in Iraq, but she didn't flinch when asked why she wouldn't go.

    "I think I could do more here," Hokel said, adding that she's focusing on political action that supports the war and the troops.

    "We don't have to be there physically to fight it," she said.

    Similarly, 20-year-old Jeff Shafer, a University of Pennsylvania student, said vital work needs to be done in the United States. There are Republican policies to maintain and protect and an economy to sustain, Shafer said.

    Then there's Paula Villescaz, a 15-year-old from Carmichael, Calif. who supports Bush and was all ears Wednesday afternoon at the GOP's Youth Convention in Madison Square Garden. She doesn't support the war, but she supports the troops and thinks the United States "needs to stay the course" now that it's immersed.

    If Iraq is still a U.S. issue when she's 18, Villescaz added, she'll give serious thought to volunteering.

    "I'm in college right now, but who knows?" said Matthew Vail, a 25-year-old from Huntsville, Ala., who works with Students for Bush. He said he might consider enlisting after he finishes his degree at the University of North Carolina, but not until then.

    "The bug may get me after college," he said.

  •  Classic Poster: (none)
    "Uncle Sam Wants

    I don't have the talent for faking these fonts. Click on image for graphic sources if you're interested:

    Image Hosted by

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 03:10:51 PM PDT

  •  Following this excellent lead (none)
    we need to challenge ALL the chickenhawks that we encounter in our lives. This may lead to uncomfortable situations with our parents or brother-in-law, etc. But during our own civl war brother fought and died against brother, and this is nearly as critical of a moment for our nation.
  •  Whoa. Is it just me. . . . (none)
    Or is that "Don't believe the liberal media's hype" advertisement palpably homoerotic?
  •  Las Vegas? (4.00)
    I live here.  Is there any hint of an organized protest?  Barring that, I may swing by the local recruiter's and grab some brochures and such to pass out ....
    •  if I were there... (none)
      Were I on one of my visits back home, I'd help with the "Bake Sale for Body Armor".  Or if someone could figure out other appropriate Yes Men-type things, I'd join along with that.

      If I hear of anything from people I know at home who are planning on acting, I'll pass it along...

      Me, I think I did my part when I helped liberate 100K from the Mandalay Bay in various gambling exploits and then ran off to Europe to spend my share on decidedly non-Republican interests.  Mwa ha ha.

  •  I will be attending (4.00)
    the Young Republicans National Convention in Vegas as an official delegate (don't ask), this is going to be so much fun...

    I just couldn't understand why these peers of mine who I know and respect would be Republicans so I spent some time talking to them, and found them to be overwhelmingly moderate, anti-war, and not pro-Bush (but not pro-Kerry either), not as much cognitive dissidence as you would think.  A lot of the California Young Republicans at least seem to want to bring change about to their party from the inside and were talking about how there is a huge split building within the party, with plenty being pro gay marriage and pro-choice -- not all of them, but a slight majority.  Personally I think they are empowering the present leadership by not being very vocally against it, but whatever that's just what they're doing..  The "College Republicans" group seem to be a lot more hardcore-nutty though.

    I can't wait, and hope I don't feel the need to blow my brains out to often!  I think I'll pass out buttons with that elephant logo..

    •  Your hardcoreneoconwinger brethren... (none)
      will be meeting on the East Coast this coming weekend, as per the original poster's comments.

      The Crystal City/Arlington, VA event will truly be what the world would be doing every Saturday night if the Nazis had won the war. It is sure to be the Sixth Reich, what with the likes of Mort Blackwell, Grover Norquist, and Tony Perkins showing up.

      California Republicans (of the old school Eisenhower/Goldwater-variety) are lumped into the "flakes and nuts" category as far as the current leadership of the partei is concerned. Marginalized and shouted down by the DeLays and Santorums.

      Good luck in Sin City next month, and please report back at length on the results of your trip.

      ...put your flags in the air and march them up and down you can live it up, live it up all over the town... - The Escape Club: Wild Wild West

      by rgilly on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:51:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I thought (4.00)
    we couldn't go any lower than the Republicans' attempt at making purple hearts worth nothing, with their disgraceful bandaids.  But guys, what is with that poster?

    Lets think about this, what are we trying to say again?

    You are making fun of republicans and vicariously telling them they can enjoy the army because of immense homosexual activity?

    If not, please tell me what that picture does mean.

    I expected---much more of this community----and it might be time I leave....for if the Democratic party is just going to make fun of gays to gain votes, well fuck you all---you can take my vote and shove it up your ass.

    disobedience to tyrants is obedience to god

    •  I sincerely believe that (4.00)
      no insult to gays is there, or intended.

      Point one: It is Republicans who are officially anti-gay. This poster needles their attitude, because (point two) it is also Republicans who use closeted-homosexual imagery to "recruit" closeted-homosexual conservatives. Genuine Republican imagery is more subtle than this poster, so this image helps to strip away their mask.

      I have been absolutely delighted to discover dKos a few months ago and find a group that has always, consistently, been completely supportive of its gay members. Check out Peanut's current diary, for an absolutely beautiful example of this. I have seen mass attacks on the occasional anti-homosexual visitor that dares to attempt to spread his filth here.

      My gaydar is only semi-functional [I was raised by fundamentalist, rapture-believing missionaries], but I have a very keen nose for hypocrisy and non-conscious mendacity, in declared friends as well as declared foes.

      I see that, in order to validate my personal opinion of this matter, I must "tell all." I am a gay [out at 16], black, father married to a Jew [it's OK, she knew before she married me].

      Now, having said all that, I believe you deserve a 4, for sincerely raising the issue rather than making an assumption and walking away silently.

      Moreover, don't take my word [the word of a dKos newbie at that] for the intent of this "recruiting poster." Your question deserves an honest answer from the whole community. I'm betting that you will get such an answer, and that their response will satisfy you. Love and peace to you, brother (or sister).


    •  What's with the gay thing? (none)
      Where's the connection?
    •  But its emotional dynamite (none)
      You are making fun of republicans and vicariously telling them they can enjoy the army because of immense homosexual activity?

      I think that the word you are looking for is "subliminally" not "vicariously".  I am not just trying to be the usage police -- there is a big difference.  The fact is that an intelligent adult American does not need to also have finally tuned gaydar to see the homosexual message in that "ad".  That is the whole point.  As David points out "this image helps to strip away their mask." 

      That said,  there are some problems with that image because stuff like this is emotional dynamite.   It also could strip away the mask for solders and vets who are, or were,  in the military for precisely that as-yet-unconscious reason.  We don't need or want to mess with the minds of Americans like that.  This is something that they need to figure out on their own, if ever.

      There is also the problem that the image might appeal to adolescent males who are close to enlistment age and yet are so clueless they see none of the satire or overt homoeroticism. For them the image easily could be a subliminal  pro-enlistment message only more effective than the more subtle ones that are actually used.

  •  I was never about the oil... (none)
    ... we haven't gotten a drop, nor will we....

    It was about Bush avenging his daddy...  that's basicallly it..

    I actually wish that it was for oil... that would have given the war more purpose... and we might have some lower gas prices....



    •  armchair analysis (none)
      I've always thought that Bush's dislike of his father coupled with the need for Daddy's approval was the factor that caused him to be receptive when the idea of attacking Iraq was presented to him by his mentors in "recovery/rebirth". (The removal of Saddam Hussein as a Freudian Magic Bullet to alleviate GW's feelings of inadequacy.) Bush's handlers, however, had their own motives.
  •  This should be mentioned. (4.00)
    opens a new window:
  •  You can do your own "ad" (4.00)
    By contact newspapers serving Arlington and Las Vegas, and placing a "personal ad"...directed at the Young Republicans.

    During the Schiavo mess I placed personal ad in a Florida paper that said: "Michael, America knows that you are a good and decent man."  It ran for three days (including Sunday), less than $50.

    I suggest doing something similar for this YR event.

    Ideas? Here's mine:

    "Draft Young Republicans First"
    "Patriot Pastors - Time for your congregations to enlist"
    "Bush swerved - will YOU serve?"

    Every man for himself.

    by JLFinch on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 05:27:48 PM PDT

  •  How about? (4.00)
    The insurgency is in its last throes!  Be there to finish the job!
  •  I'm aghast at that picture (none)
    of the troops with the slogan. I realize now what has been referred to as the 101st fighting keyboardist.

    It gives me almost the same feeling as when I finally saw B*sh on the aircraft carrier. Had heard about it but didn't see the image until about six monts later (wasn't watching much t.v).

    This is appalling. And the call to arms ad was too negative? Excuse me while I barf.

  •  There is a Huge Disconnect (none)
    on this issue for myself and other Canadians who have not seen troops sent to war since WWII and Korea. It would seem unimaginable here that the young kids I saw graduate the other night would soon be sent to die on foreign soil for some rich asshole's oil quota or for the political benefit of the far right. I'm not saying we are lily white and blameless - we have our wingnuts too. This kind of thing is just difficult to comprehend.

    Canada - where a pack of smokes is ten bucks and a heart transplant is free.

    by dpc on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 05:50:24 PM PDT

  •  Am I all alone? (none)
    I'm a diehard liberal

    I think Bush's foreign policy sucks

    I see nothing hypocritical about supporting a war in which I have no intention of enlisting.(Not that I support this one, but I have supported other wars in which I did not enlist - Afganistan for one.)

    I think having high ideals that I can't meet is better than having low ideals. I guess that makes me a hypocrite a lot of the time ... and I'm OK with that.

  •  While I personally like the picture ... (none)
    in the Keyboarders ad, there isn't even a lick of subtlty in either ad. If you wanted them both to be rejected publicly, you made your point quite admirably.

    But if subterfuge, needling, and guilt was planned with a real ad in this convention's program, you fucked up big time!!!

    You know, even the rethugs know they need a little "feminine" (no genitalia intended in that designation) subturfuge. Who but the "feminine" can  understand subtle masculine (or emasculine) manipulation?

    (Flame me dimwits!!)

    "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

    by Glinda on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 07:42:29 PM PDT

    •  Okay... (none)
      WTF R U Talkin' about?

      Every time a male wingnut who's seen either of the "ow you say - emasculating?" ads sees a regular US Army ad and he's going to flash no matter how briefly back to the foul image them libruls forced 'pon me!.

      That ain't going to help their recruitment cause.


      Sorry, I just watched The Education of Shelby Knox and I feel sick.

      It must be easier being a fundy christian red-stater, people piss you off, no problemo cause they's all gon to hell right?


      ...and you can write that down, and put a dash in front of it, and put my name at the bottom.

      by deafmetal on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 08:06:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  English please! (none)
        Obviously not your first language.

        Or you are very happily fucked up on really good weed!

        "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

        by Glinda on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 08:12:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry Glinda. (none)
          Check my post history, I usually speak in slightly more comprehendable english.

          Except for the times that I'm guilty of your second point (altough nothing so exotic as weed I'm afraid).

          ...and you can write that down, and put a dash in front of it, and put my name at the bottom.

          by deafmetal on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 09:41:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  What I mean is ... (none)
      (BTW: It's amazing what a little wine at a Manhattan restaurant with a little dinnertime conversation about next steps in the "Marriage Equality" movement will do to a brain ... thinking y'all are on my wavelength and all!)

      Even the "Our Nation is at War" title is WRONG! Just off the top of my head ... the ad should have a title such as "Our Nation is in a War on Terrorism" and then build the logic around support of the war:  it's time to consider volunteering for it.

      It needed to be "worked" from a MarCom perspective. It's really the opposite of "framing"; it's unframing the Right: use their "frames" against them.  

      "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

      by Glinda on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 08:21:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sure... (none)
    ... that our youth will not grow to be confused adults...


  •  College Repugs (none)
      Michael Davidson is running for Chairman of the College Republicans. In this fawning article  Mr. Davidson makes no mention of possible military service.

       Another young repug says he is possible "presidential" material.

      Out of 120,000 College Repugs, a 10% volunteer rate would go a long way in helping our Army's recruiting goal!  

  •  I think we should alert (none)
    recruiters all over the country that all these macho males will be at the convention.

    Better yet, how about if we do a little volunteer recruiting ourselves?

    How about setting up some tables with these posters and more to show them how great it would be to be in Iraq at the all-day kegger?

    Someday, after the forest fire of the Right has died we'll say "Whew, I'm happy that's over."

    by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Tue Jun 21, 2005 at 11:09:01 PM PDT

  •  phallic beefcake recruiting=priceless! beer ad? (none)
  •  just wondering (none)
    who are the soldiers in the recruitment poster photo?  

    i hope whoever is using it has permission!  remember what happened with the swifties and there - ahem - liberal use of someone else's photo and couple.

    cautiously, f

  •  If the... (none)
    jugend Republikanisch schweinhunds are gathering in Vegas, I feel the Progressives should be represented as well. And there is a certain bent appeal in the notion of running a savage burn in one Las Vegas hotel, and then just wheeling across town and checking into another. Us and a few thousand ranking Young Rethugs from all over America.

    Why not? Move confidently into their midst...

    And for any Kossacks that might be in the neighborhood, Senator Brownback will be speaking Saturday, July 9th during the black-tie awards dinner at the Mandalay Bay Hotel, Las Vegas.

    You can get great Las Vegas Strip room rates this time of year...Bally's Las Vegas, at Flamingo and the Strip (the Old MGM Grand) has room rates from about $59.00 to $139.00 (Deluxe Room, length of stay) around that time next month...just up a few blocks from Young Repug Spook Central.

    Or if you are feeling bold, just mention you are with the Young Republican National Convention to get a discounted room rate, at Mandalay Bay. Wear your finest shit-eating grin and a Tucker Carlson bowtie and mix and mingle with the enemy for a few days...crash a panel discussion or two.

    ...put your flags in the air and march them up and down you can live it up, live it up all over the town... - The Escape Club: Wild Wild West

    by rgilly on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:30:46 AM PDT

  •  Handing Out Flyers in Crystal City? (none)
    I live near there.  This answer may be upthread, but I have to run to work:

    Is there a link to a large size version of the "Our Nation Is At War" piece that I can print as a flyer to hand out at the conference this weekend?

    My partner and I could perhaps use a bit of activism this weekend. . .

    We are not "compassionate conservatives." We are "fighting liberals." And we'll kick your ass.

    by Pachacutec on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:09:55 AM PDT

  •  Falangism rather than of fascism (none)

    We all probably instinctively understand why the Young Republicans find this bit of political satire "negative".  And yet if the GOP was truly moving in the direction of "fascism" (as many on the left say they believe) this military path would be something that at least some Young Republican would follow and all would support (at least in theory).  But actually the "movement" that the modern GOP is developing is a form of  Falangism rather than of fascism (take a look here for one a discussion of this important difference). 

    With regard to this idea of asking Young Republican to put on the uniform, the reason that this is so totally off of the table is that in Falagist movements the elite are enlisted by promising to kept them free for the power of the state.   The application of such power by a Falangist state is reserved for labor movements, people who challenge religious orthodoxy, and ordinary citizens reduced to desperation by the neoliberal trade policies advanced by such movements.

    In a true fascist movement, on the other hand,  the elite classes are so panicked that they subject themselves totally to the state.  We should be glad, I suppose, that Young Republicans do not yet find putting on uniforms attractive, but we should not be surprised and we should also be careful what we wish for.  From the viewpoint of the elite left, Falangism is much more survivable, and much easer to fight,  than fascism.

  •  An Alternative (none)
    There is another way for YR's to contribute to the effort in Iraq without becoming boots on the ground, so to speak.  Perhaps someone has already proposed this...I am not a Yale grad, so things don't necessarily just pop into my head...requires a bit of cogitation and connecting dots.  

    The proposal is to have all YR's agree to a lifetime earnings contribution to the Iraq reconstruction effort.  I was inspired by this morning's news of Condi's pleas for international help at the meeting in Brussels.  Details would need to be worked out, but some key provisions would be:
    1.    Minimum donation would be 10% of annual gross income reported on Federal Tax returns.  This would be like tithing at your church.  Higher potential YR's should contribute higher percentages and could be given cool names like Patriot, Pioneer, Warrior, Spearchucker, Bottlerocket, etc.
    2.    The agreement would remain in force for the life of the donor.  
    3.    The agreement should be a simple one page binding arrangement that can be filed at a courthouse and become a matter of public record, like a real estate transaction.  This would avoid the potential for any future confusion.  Perhaps an attorney on this thread could help us make sure that it is done properly from a legal perspective.
    4.    This would be a private sector initiative only.  There would be no need to involve any government or organizations like the UN.  There would be no tax implications and nothing to report to the IRS regarding the contributions.
    5.    Administrative costs would be limited to 80 percent of the contributed amount.  This means that fully 20 percent of the funds will flow directly into Iraq reconstruction projects.  Since this is a private endeavor, it would be self-policing and not require any government regulatory involvement.

    Key advantages of and promotional talking points for this initiative include:
    1.    Enables YR's to support their country through direct involvement in the Iraq war without jeopardizing life or limb.
    2.    This has a positive flavor rather than the negativity of some other suggestions for involvement.
    3.    Reduces the need to have foreigners involved in something they did not support, and precludes them from taking any credit for helping out.  This would be a real PR coup in the world theatre.
    4.    Provides an excellent small business opportunity for entrepreneurial types.  Think of all the new jobs that could be created in administering the program, which will help offset those going away at Ford and Winn-Dixie.
    5.    Demonstrates the importance of the old American adage "put your money where your mouth is".

  •  Does that say... (none)
    "enlist in the infancy today?"

    Now I see why they want Young Republicans.

  •  Teenage Democrats? (none)
    How come the republicanbs have so many better and more organized grass roots.  Yet we progressives have no teenage democrats, a place where we make people se our view.

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