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Can we hear a drum roll! Badabadabada!
Let's get some trumpet fanfare! Du-dun-da-da!

The location of the YearlyKos Convention 2006 is...
(Do I hear the ghost of Elvis?)

Las Vegas!
June 8-11, 2006

For those of you who did not want to go to Las Vegas, we want you to know that we take your concerns very seriously.

Chicago is clearly an exciting and beloved place. If we were comparing cities alone, the tip of the hat would most probably go to Chicago...for one thing, there's no Celine Dion there. (If we've offended any Celine Dion fans, we're sure your heart will go on.)

Of the over 1500 votes we got, Chicago did come out slightly less than 100 votes ahead. But, to be fair, poll results while the first diary was on the recommended list showed Vegas ahead. The votes that put Chicago over the top trickled in after the diary was off the recommended list, which left us with a fairly level field of opinion.

Like most everything else in the world today, the decision ultimately came down to costs. Our Pre-Registered users declared a clear preference on cost. 84% stated that affordability and cost effectiveness should be a priority for the Convention. This is direct feedback from people who are highly likely to attend the Convention.

But before we get down to price information, let's chat about the biggest strike against Las Vegas in many of your comments: gambling and the lack of family-friendly atmosphere in "Sin City." Yes, there are lots of grownups drinking, smoking and betting the nest egg on a roll of the dice. There's no getting around it and there's no avoiding it, but there are ways of minimizing it, and we want those to whom this was the paramount concern to help us do so.

Our event maven Anika Culici visited the Riviera and checked out some family-oriented activities for convention attendees with or without kids. Please click here for a short sample of what Las Vegas has to offer families. These are just a few of the most obvious options; we have a team gathering information on more. There will be plenty of activities for families and non-gamblers alike, and we call on all of you to help us discover and plan even more!

Another concern voiced against "the city that the mob built" was that the public perception of the event might be compromised by holding it in such a frivolous and Cirque du Soleil-infected place. In answer to those concerns we are providing the following partial list of organizations hosting conventions in Las Vegas this summer (* indicates conference to be held at the Riviera). For a full list, visit the LVCVA Website
  • *Blacks in Government Regional Conference
  • Boys and Girls Clubs of America
  • Transport Workers Union of America
  • Hispanic Business Magazine Woman of the Year Conference
  • *International Assoc. of Ministers
  • National Association of Women in Construction
  • Women,s Business Enterprises National Council
  • National Association of Minority Contrac
  • American Adoption Congress
  • Young Republicans
  • International Conference on Jewish Genealogy
  • FBI Agents Association
  • 4th Infantry Division Association
  • Children of Deaf Adults International
  • CA School Employees Association
  • Bibliotheque World Wide Society
  • Disabled American Veterans Association
  • United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America

Now to the boring but decisive cost issue: we'll start with savings to individuals. The average per-ticket saving on airfare to Las Vegas vs. that of Chicago is $157.55. The room cost at the Hyatt in Chicago is $129.00 per night vs. the room cost at the Riviera, which is $110.00. We also have to mention that many of the comments posted in favor of Chi-town were still concerned about the expense of holding the convention there.

Now the costs for the event as a whole: the Hyatt charges an extra $56,000 for food and beverages. Many of the meals are going to be provided to you as part of the package. The increased fees from the hotel would mean that the registration fee (a fee we are trying to keep low, low, low) would have to be upped. We hope to be able to provide some kind of financial assistance to those who can't afford the full cost of attending and an extra few dozen grand available should help this possibility become reality.

The difference in cost is most striking if something goes wrong and we come up short on the number of rooms. The bottom line is that the Riviera contract allows us two opportunities to adjust our numbers without penalty prior to the convention; the Hyatt is less accommodating and penalizes us heavily if our attendance is less than 80% of the minimum identified in the contract. For a worst case scenario, the Riviera contract penalizes us in the amount of $44,000.  However, for the same worst case scenario, the Hyatt penalizes us in the amount of $129,000.

As excited as we are about the very first YearlyKos Convention, we hope this event is the first of many. And with the proven success of this event we will have a greater choice of location the next time around. Also, the greater flexibility and affordability offered by Las Vegas gives us the opportunity to focus more on making this a world-changing event rather than focus on fundraising (and also provides an example to certain unnamed parties beholden to massive fundraising--rather than idea-raising--efforts).

Now let's everybody get excited about an event that's going to rock the world! In one of the most exhilarating cities on earth! And what happens there, sure ain't stayin' there!

BTW, don't forget to fill out Your Agenda and to Pre-Register.

Originally posted to YearlyKos on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:05 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Recommend!!! (4.00)
    Make sure you recommend this diary, so it doesn't get drowned out by hundreds of Rehnquist diaries (should there be hundreds of Rehnquist diarires)!
    •  God I hope not (none)
      100's of Rehnquist diaries that is.  That would be a waste.

      It is a very mixed blessing to be brought back from the dead.

      by Steven D on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:27:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Still would be better. (none)
        Than Rehnquist diarrhea.

        Oh God I just vomited.

        "In such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners." -Albert Camus.

        by BrianL on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 06:34:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Bibliotheque World Wide Society (none)
      seems to be listed here as if in answer to any accusations that it would be typical to hold a liberal convention in Sin City (but ... d'oh, but that's hardly the point).

      FYI, the Bibliotheque World Wide Society are publishers of architecture and design books, the kind you put on your coffee table to impress people or flatten documents. biblio- is Latin for book. It has nothing to do with Bibles.

      ... and anyone can tell you that we bibliophiles are a bunch o' perverts! ;)

      BUSH: Like a rock...but dumber.
      Stewart/Olberman 2008!

      by mugsimo on Sat Jul 09, 2005 at 12:08:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  WOOT (4.00)
    Vegas Baby. Here we come! Can't wait!

    I wanna shake Harry Reid's hand.

    Republicans Enlist! Answer the call of your supreme commander!

    by librarianman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:03:14 AM PDT

  •  Thanks to our Advisory Board (4.00)
    For their help and unanimous endorsment in choosing Las Vegas.
  •  Yay! I love Vegas! (none)
    (And yeah, I know, it's not all about me. But I thought I'd throw my hat in the air nonetheless.)

    Thanks for all the hard work that's gone into this planning.

    •  Of course it is, Susan (4.00)
      Didn't you know? We voted, and it's all about you this weekend.

      lib·er·al: Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

      by Joan McCarter on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:45:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I love it too! (none)
      We just came back Wednesday, as a matter of fact. I am going to post downthread about the two amazing galleries missing from the activities list.
      And man, do I love Vegas spas :)
      And Blackjack. Can't forget blackjack.
    •  I love Vegas, too (4.00)
      Despite the fact that I don't gamble and I don't partake of  floor shows or all-you-can-eat buffets.

      Other attractions of the place:

      1. The over-the-top architecture. After I visit to Las Vegas, I spent the ride home from the airport thinking, Why are all the buidings here rectangles? Why are they gray? Why not a blue glass pyramid. On the other hand, after Nevada the East Coast vegetation strikes me as unnecessarily aggressive. Can somebody please turn down the green in this picture?

      2. Las Vegas is a cheap flight, a cheap rental car, and a few hours' drive from Zion National Park, a beautiful, beautiful place with an annoying name.

      3. Have a few spare hours? Drive up to the Arizona/Utah border and become some Mormon fundamentalist's twentieth wife. You'll have a story you can dine out on for years!
      •  Colorado, Arizona moved to Texas (none)

        Sorry, but the largest group of renegade Mormons has moved to Eldorado, Texas after local authorities tired of their presence and their propensity to cohabit with teenagers (to say nothing of massive welfare fraud!)  
  •  Ugh (none)
    I hate Vegas with a passion, although it's not quite as bad as Reno. Also, you're going to Vegas in June?? OK...

    But, I guess I shouldn't leave a comment here with only a short complaint. I'll be living in California next year and so this makes it infinitely more likely that I will attend. And more importantly, I think this idea is brilliant, it's about time, and I hope we can get an excellent turnout of people. Vegas, Baby...I can learn to live with it, if only because it's for a good cause.

    And Vegas is pretty heavily unionized, so that's a plus.

    I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day

    by eugene on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:06:11 AM PDT

  •  Maybe (none)
    You can invite [Give 'em Hell] Harry Reid for a prize fight. Or at least a speech in his home state.
  •  It's on my calendar (none)
    and my BF will be happy it's in Las Vegas, so that he can play around while I get political.  Best of both worlds.

    I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

    by mlk on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:11:25 AM PDT

  •  Vegas, Baby, Vegas (none)
    Baby, we're going to be up five hunny by midnight!

    "Any content-based regulation of the Internet, no matter how benign the purpose, could burn the global village to roast the pig." -- ACLU v Reno (E.D. Pa. 1996)

    by Adam B on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:11:56 AM PDT

  •  asdf... (none)
    Hey, when I was in Vegas a couple of weeks ago, the International Association of Minister's Wives and Minister's Widows and the Red Hat Society both had gatherings there--if they can handle it, I'm sure Kossacks can.  Also, Circus Circus (right across the street from the Rivera, and requiring maybe a 5 minute outdoor walk) is even cheaper on the room cost front for folks who want to stay separate of the convention and cur costs.
  •  I guess (none)
    I'm confused. If Chicago won out in the poll, and it's more expensive in Las Vegas hotel- and food-wise, why Vegas and not Chicago ?
    •  Chicago more expensive (none)
      It took me a while to figure that out, but the Hyatt is the Hyatt in Chicago that would charge outrageous fees.

      YearlyKos, you might want to edit that portion a bit.

      I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

      by mlk on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:14:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's less expensive in Vegas food and hotel-wise (none)
      So that appears to be the primary reason for Vegas.
    •  asdf... (none)
      Vegas is cheaper foodwise, hotelwise, and airfare-wise, and the cancellation/change policy is far less onerous.
      •  Okay (none)
        I'll take your word for it but reading the diary it left me with the opposite impression.

        I appreciate financial considerations but am still concerned that Chicago 'won the vote' but wasn't the final choice.

        •  another vote (none)
          When we surveyed preregistrants...84% stated costs should be a major decididing factor. That's quite a mandate. But we hear your concerns. This was not an easy decision.

          YearlyKos...What's your AGENDA

          by gina on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:31:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Good Point, but (none)
          Actually, Las Vegas won while the diary with the poll was on the Recommended List.  Votes for Chicago trickled in over the next few days and it was still pretty close.

          Here's the major issue: Cost and getting the most participation possible.  Las Vegas wins hands down on that.  

          Another big, big issue is that Chicago is pretty punitive if the numbers fall even slightly below our projected attendance.  

          I'm convinced,after looking at how DemFest and other events did, that YearlyKos will be a big event, but we owe it to the future of the organization to be careful with costs and liability.

          •  I really (none)
            disagree with that assessment.

            Chicago won the vote, period.  Some (many) of us don't check here at least once every 24 hours.  Voting while the diary was still on the Recommend list frankly makes no sense.  What about the votes BEFORE it was on the Recommend list.

            I believe I voted for Chicago after the diary slipped off the Recommend list.  Why should my vote not count ?

          •  I vote for Chicago! (none)
            I live here - and never saw the earlier diary.  Because of cost, I can rather obviously not go to Vegas.  Have fun!

            Let justice reign though the heavens tremble

            by Viceroy on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 11:33:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Too expensive to go (none)
              I'm on the board of an animal rescue group, and we meet once a year at an annual convention.  We've had the same kind of thing pop up - we're all volunteers and not all of us have the money to fly cross-country to make the meeting.

              We worked out a donation pool, where we donated whatever we were comfortable with and it was used to pay the airfare for some of the people who couldn't do it on their own.  The applications were handled privately, for those who didn't want everyone else to know their business, and we decided that they had to be vouched for or have a known history with the group to prevent fraud.

              It would be a shame if people weren't able to go just for a couple hundred dollars and we were able to raise enough to get many people there.

              Well maybe I'm the faggot America. I'm not a part of a redneck agenda. - Green Day "American Idiot"

              by ScottinSoCal on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 12:25:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  In reply to viceroy AND scott (none)
                great advice and we are working on that very thing, i.e., a fund to help those who can't afford to go, attend with no worries.  We want everyone there.

                er, just a suggestion, scott (and viceroy, too, if you're so inclined), if you'd like to lend your expertise in this area, we'd be happy to have you!  It's all masochist, er, volunteer driven!

      •  The Hyatt is not Cheap (4.00)
        I would just like to point out that the Hyatt was probably one of the most expensive places to hold the conference in chicago. While the Riv is one of the cheapest places in vegas.
      •  airfare is average cost...not actual (none)
        for us, on the east coast, a ticket to Vegas is likely to be more expensive than Chicago would have been.  It has been every time I've checked.

        "It's not like I never want to bite people...I just know it's wrong." Satchel Pooch

        by Mrs Pastor on Mon Jul 11, 2005 at 08:12:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  i wanna go (none)
    but if its pride in philly....well i cant miss pride...they need me on my float.

    if i can be home sunday morn i can do it....i wanna gooooo.

    I wish I had a penis on the back of my head.

    by anna in philly on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:23:28 AM PDT

  •  Dr Girlfriend Sez... (none)
    Martinis and Liberals.  Wonderful combination.  Great work, you guys.  I'm in!
  •  I am SO stealing this graphic... (none)

    And for those concerned about Vegas as Sin City, you must not have been there lately. Its practically Branson.

  •  I'll be road-tripping up (none)
    from LA...

    if I can come up with the cash!

    Yay for Vegas!

    Visit - a blended double-tequila margarita of pop culture & LA nightlife.

    by KB on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:27:23 AM PDT

  •  Ken Blackwell (4.00)
    in charge of the voting, I guess. <snark>

    Nero fiddled. Bush bicycles.

    by jazzmaniac on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:34:01 AM PDT

  •  Woo-Hoo! Lost Wages, here I come! (none)
    My husband has never been to Vegas and this will be a great opportunity for a vacation!

    For me, an eight hour drive to Vegas is much preferred over a $400 plane ticket to Chicago.  

    Now to start saving my nickles!  See y'all there!

    Where are we going and what are we doing in this hand basket?

    by awnm on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:35:10 AM PDT

  •  Too bad... (4.00)
    Maybe I can make it to the SECOND yearly Kos event (in Chicago).
  •  Congrats.... (none)
    for all the hard work.  Vegas!  Yeh, Baby.

    I happen to believe that by next June, dkos will have established itself as THE ABSOLUTE political power player on the web and, therefore, in the country (if it hasn't already).  Its membership will be about 70,000, and most of the progressive/democratic candidates/congresspeople will be members or, at the very least, taking the pulse of the dkos community into policy account.

    As a result, the convention has the potential to be a major political power meeting, with major press coverage, big time speakers and, yes, even lobbyists, protesters, etc in attendance.

    It will be interesting to see how it all comes down.  I, for one, will be there.  I'm hoping you all wil make a major effort to attend and participate in changing the paradigm of how we communitcate the news and choose our elected officials.

  •  Michael and I are 100% opposed to going. (4.00)


    See ya there.

    •  I'm with you guys (4.00)
      Well, not that way.  But what the hell do I know, never having tried.... but I digress...

      Vegas.  Bleah.  In one of my former lives I had to attend the NAB convention in Las Vegas every year.  I never did learn to like the place much:

      • Slots: Ugh.
      • Blackjack Tables: Blech.
      • Roulette Wheels: Whirrrrrr, rattle. Yech.
      • Supper Clubs: Gack.
      • Wayne Newton: Nein, Danke
      • White Lions in Cages: Grr.
      • Smokers Everywhere: Choke, ack, sput.
      • Plastic, plastic, plastic.  Pee-yew!
      • Neon, neon, neon.  Ouch, my eyes.

      Oh, well.  See you there.

      PS:  I haven't read the family activity list yet, but there is one place that I truly enjoyed visiting in Las Vegas.  The Las Vegas "51's" AAA baseball club play at Cashman Field out in the real neighborhoods of Las Vegas.  It is refreshing to get away from The Strip and all the plastic downtown goldendladyslipperstripper joints and into the parts of town where the real people with real jobs live and work.  You can take a city bus out to the ballpark which, while not a classic "Bull Durham" old rickety structure, is a delightful place to see a game.  It's airy and open and you can bring a blanket (or a stolen casino hotel beach towel, ahem) and picnic on the hill in left field, enjoy imported beers at reasonable prices, and partake of the not-at-all-terrible ersatz Mexican buffet behind home plate.

      The "51's" (named for Area 51 near Roswell, New Mexico -- and no, I have no idea why they use that name in Las Vegas) are the AAA franchise supporting the LA Dodgers.  In truth, I have not been to Vegas nor seen their AAA team since the mid-90's when they were the Las Vegas Stars, which were affiliated with the San Diego Padres.  So, a caveat: my info on the ballyard may be dated.  But that's how it I last left it, and how hope to find it again.  Let's hope they're in town next June 8th through 11th.

      See you there, Bill.  I believe I owe you a rum and coke.

    •  Mrs. Pastor is also (4.00)
      deeply and thoroughly set against Vegas.

      [Double sigh]

      Wanna share a room?

      The UCC: to believe is to care, to care is to do. Also, they have cookies.

      by pastordan on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:27:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I knew I liked that woman... (none)
        I sincerely hope that wherever the conference takes place it is a huge success. But I think this choice sucks. But it makes sense to me in light of the fact that in the past five years or so, virtually everything that makes sense to me and seems to be the obvious right thing to do is thwarted in favor of the opposite and seemingly worst-case/worse choice scenario (ex. War on Iraq instead of Afghanistan, Martha Stewart safely behind bars, Osama bin Laden roaming free, etc.) It is only fitting that the conference I have been excited to attend should be held in a city I would have considered to be among the last on the list as reasonable choices. If anyone's got a problem with my opinions, flame away. But I can't be the only one who loathes Las Vegas.

        It is time Christians were judged more by their likeness to Christ than their notions of Christ. -William Penn

        by chicagochristianleft on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:50:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks (4.00)
          I really appreciate the fact that all the money, work and time I've volunteered to get this done is being lumped in with Iraq, Martha Stewart and Osama bin Laden.  That's just brilliant.  I'm also sure that everyone else who has volunteered their time, expertise and money in just choosing this site appreciates being dumped on just because you don't like the city.  

          As I said in the last diary, there is always next year.  There is NO need to be rude about this--don't go this year and hope that next year it's in a city that's meets your desires.  Or better yet, volunteer yourself.  I know it's easier to complain when you haven't actually vested anything in making this happen, but if you volunteer next year, maybe you'll understand just how much effort has gone into just this one decision.

          •  I sympathize with your view (none)
            and appreciate all the work that volunteers are putting into this. My opinion remains unchanged. It seems to me that this is not a choice between just any two cities, i.e. Cleveland and Los Angeles. Las Vegas a singularly bizarre place and I guess you've chosen it because it's set up to accomodate large groups of people economically. It still seems like possibly one of the least appropriate places in the US to have it.

            It is time Christians were judged more by their likeness to Christ than their notions of Christ. -William Penn

            by chicagochristianleft on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:35:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  fabbob: (none)
            Where ARE my manners? While Mrs. Pastor and I were in fact Chicago partisans, we both love and respect the amount of work it took to get the convention to this point. Don't let anything we might say tell you that we don't appreciate your work, or the work of the other steering committee members!!

            The UCC: to believe is to care, to care is to do. Also, they have cookies.

            by pastordan on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 02:11:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's actually "fabooj" (none)
              It helps to get the names right when you're kissing ass, pastordoon. :)

              It is time Christians were judged more by their likeness to Christ than their notions of Christ. -William Penn

              by chicagochristianleft on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 02:32:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ah, but (none)
                it's fabbob to those who know her from the Cheers & Jeers Cafe.

                Or did you not know that this entire site is nothing but a Gnostic version of three-card monte?

                The UCC: to believe is to care, to care is to do. Also, they have cookies.

                by pastordan on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 02:37:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Actually (none)
                  It's Faboob...I've been away from the Cafe for too long...what's it been now?  2 weeks?  

                  Thanks PD, My comment wasn't directed to you, since ou didn't align our work with Iraq, Martha or Osama.

                  •  I did not (none)
                    align your work with Iraq, Martha, or Osama-I'm simply saying that your decision is so piss poor and ass backwards that it just reinforces my idea that the whatever should logically and obviously occur-will now not occur but the opposite, least desirable path will be taken as a matter of course. It's so "Bushworld". May I suggest Colorado Springs as an ideal location for the convention if Las Vegas does not work out?!

                    It is time Christians were judged more by their likeness to Christ than their notions of Christ. -William Penn

                    by chicagochristianleft on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 07:56:42 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Ditto. (none)
              It was a hard decision.  You all put tons of time and reseach into it.  So now PD and I have to put in our own research and time and figure out if this is do-able for us.


              "It's not like I never want to bite people...I just know it's wrong." Satchel Pooch

              by Mrs Pastor on Mon Jul 11, 2005 at 08:23:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I feel like she does about Vegas except (none)
        the cost thing is very compelling to me, so I do think it is the rational choice anyway. Like I said the other day, it will be a good event because of who's there (kossacks) rather than where it is. I am a little doubtful I will be able to come up with the money, but you never know. Especially if I could sleep on the floor in someone's room it would probably not be THAT much, and I really want to go.

        By the way, this is my diary of the meetup in Madison:

        •  elizabeth (none)
          dunno about crashing on floors, but i'm betting the planning committee has plans to create a board (or something) where people can get together to share lodging and transportation costs.  Just about everyone's going to be interested in this.
          (ex - find a city that's cheaper to fly into and hitch a ride with fellow kossacks, or find kossacks close to you you can hitch a ride with.  You could share a room with 2-3 others which would cut even the $110 a night cost down to $27.50 pp.)  

          "Love, love, love. All you need is love." - Lennon/McCartney

          by lapolitichick on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 12:20:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  airfare much more than I thought (none)
            I would probably need to do the whole trip for within what the airfare is likely to be, but that's just not gonna happen. Well, I can always hope.
            •  as far as room rates go (none)
              I believe there is no charge for an extra person and only $20 bucks more for a third.  We are working on a fund to help people go as well as thinking up ways to get carpoolers together.  Don't give up, because we working on making this as possible for folks as we can.
              •  Possibly a few charters? (none)
                Maybe it might be worthwhile to guage interest in having a few central departure points- maybe Beantown, DC, Jacksonville, St. Louis, and Chi-Town?
                One can "charter" as few as 20-30 seats and the fares get really low.

                Might and Right are always fighting In our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning. Might can hardly keep from grinning. -Clarence D

                by Myrkury on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 06:20:34 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  are you looking (none)
              at airfare for the weekend in question, or are you looking 14-21 days out from today?  The latter will give you a more accurate view of airfare.  also, look at airfare to a city closer to vegas, but not actually vegas - like i said - you'll probably be able to hitch a ride with a roadtripping kossack if you can get close enough.
              I hope to see you there!

              "Love, love, love. All you need is love." - Lennon/McCartney

              by lapolitichick on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 02:51:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  the lattter (none)
                I was searching for airfare in late august to give me an estimate. The only other cities "near" vegas that Travelocity suggested to me were 90+ miles from Vegas.
                •  hope you see this (none)
                  try looking at flights to los angeles or SF - i'm sure kossacks from there will be roadtripping, and you might save substantially on airfare.  
                  It's probably a little early to have these conversations, but then again, i'm prone to planning, so....  either way, i really hope you're able to come.

                  "Love, love, love. All you need is love." - Lennon/McCartney

                  by lapolitichick on Tue Jul 12, 2005 at 10:50:47 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  For those who don't mind a little drive... (none)
              You can fly into one of the LA area airports (Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County, LAX, Burbank) and drive to LV in about 4 hours. That will require a rental car, or arranging a carpool. But the fares into these airposts might be considerably more reasonable. LAX and ONT are the best choices, as they usually have the best connections and most flights. It's an easy drive through the desert and could drop the price of the trip considerably.

              What's the Question? - What do you want to ask? -

              by lsoderman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 07:25:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Elizabeth D (none)
              I am an overweight, elderly lady who lives alone, walks with a walker, and lives on SS.  I really, really want to hear all those speakers and attend the discussions.  I have the time obviously.  I was sitting here thinking about driving (MN to LV couldn't be THAT bad) and sharing a hotel room would be good.  Just thinking out loud.

              If life were perfect, we could find a parking ramp on the outskirts and get shuttles to take us to the hotel itself to avoid city driving.  

              I do not drink, do not smoke, and do not party much.  But have NO objection to a roomie partying it up the flagpole.  

              •  don't understand (none)
                GrandmaJ, I have to rule out driving because I do not know how to drive and don't have a license. Not because it's inconvenient. I would be happy to go to some inconvenience or discomfort to be able to go, but it does take some money regardless. I have disabilities that are keeping me unemployed.
    •  bill (none)
      it wouldn't be kos without you.  ergo, it wouldn't be Ykos without you.  You've made my day - i can't wait to meet you.

      "Love, love, love. All you need is love." - Lennon/McCartney

      by lapolitichick on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:34:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now I can add Yearly Kos to C&J's.... (4.00)

        ...By the Numbers section.

        335 days and Counting!!

        •  You are a hero (none)
          and this is a good place to post the following:

          To all those who are not completely happy about the location, keep an eye out for the program agenda and speaker/presenter lists.  It's going to knock your collective socks off!  This is all to say it's about who's going to be there and what we'll be doing and whose cage we'll be rattling.  If you can enjoy a martini or a soggy shrimp louie in the process, all the more power to you.

    •  I understand Bill and Michael (none)

      But, I am thrilled that you would still be there because there would be a huge empty gap on the Front Page for the weekend if you were not. I mean, I am going to be part of something wonderful and generally serious....but I must have my snark!! And I must flick peas at the master :->

      Hey - YearlyKos staff! Thank you SO MUCH for your hard work and research so far! Fabooj - your points on the updated Riviera are much appreciated and I know you guys are going to make this great for those who have kids.

      Its on my calendar and I WILL be there.

      Can blindly continued fear-induced, regurgitated, life denying traditions be overcome? - Alanis Morissette

      by SanDiegoDem on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 11:18:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm so impressed with you all! (none)
    You are doing a wonderful job of organizing, planning, and responding to concerns. You can never make everyone happy on something like this, but you've made the process transparent, and that counts for a lot.

    You're making an effort to give all of us a chance to come. Thank you!

    •  Thank you (none)
      Thanks for the great comment and understanding.  Sometimes it feels like there's always someone who thinks we (the entire community) should bend to his/her whim.  The transparency level probably has a lot to do with that.  It's unfortunate and frustrating--this team has spent so much time agonizing over every single detail to accommodate this large group of people, to have it crapped on by someone is like a slap in the face to a large group of people.  

      I know that in the end, it'll all be worth it.  I know that there are a lot of people who are enthusiastic about this convention, the prospect of meeting fellow Kossacks from all over AND getting to hear/interact with some awesome speakers.  We're gonna knock your socks off in June 2006!

      •  What do you mean? (none)
        You aren't going to bend to each of our individual whims?  Geez...

        I'll say it again, you all have a hard job and made a hard decision.  And you'll never make everyone happy.  And there will always be some who cannot/will not make it.  So make it the best that you can for those who will be there.  If we can't be there in person, we can always blog along with you...

        "It's not like I never want to bite people...I just know it's wrong." Satchel Pooch

        by Mrs Pastor on Mon Jul 11, 2005 at 08:27:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Costs.. (none)
    Besides the 110 a night for the room, how much will the convention cost? If its not known yet, can anyone venture a guess? Id love to pre register because I do plan on going (I a may be a month old member but Ive been lurking for almost two years)... how does this all work?
    •  There is a mandate (none)
      from those in power to keep registration WAY LOW....we want everyone to attend and to give them the most for their registration fee...

      It will be affordable.  We promise.

    •  Here's my guesses (none)
      Here's my guesses, based on having to fly from halfway across the country. Your mileage may vary depending on if you live within driving distance, etc.

      Convention Registration: $100ish, based on pre-registration of about 1,000 Kossacks.

      Airfare: $200-400, depending on where you live and whether you get a good sale.

      Hotel: $440 plus applicable taxes...I have no idea what they are.

      HOWEVER, on the Riviera's site, America West Vacations can do a travel package of three nights for as little as $405 for airfare and hotel (assuming you live within a reasonable driving distance of a city served by America West...for me it's Detroit). That's a pretty good deal, if you ask me.

      Food: $100-150?? Again, this is planning on 3 dinners, airport food on the travel days, and lots of drinking.

      Incidentals: $200? Your mileage may vary, especially if you plan on shooting craps or something. (Souvenirs, more drinking, tips, taxis, and perhaps the occasional go-go boy.)

      Bottom line? I'm budgeting $1500 so I can have a good time and not worry about running out of money. It can probably be done for as little as about $800-1000, depending on whether you fly/drive, etc.

      "Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage." --HL Mencken

      by PerfectStormer on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:09:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  registration (none)
        we're aiming for less, actually, but I don't want to put the number out there yet....or, let's just say, I'm not authorized to.
        •  Well (none)
          You're certainly privy to more and better information that I am. I just did a little rudimentary math that said $75,000 divided by 1000 is $75, plus other expenses that I don't know about.

          But either way, I'm sure you all will figure something out. You're all doing a great job, and I'm sure you will continue to in the future.

          "Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage." --HL Mencken

          by PerfectStormer on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 12:36:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I am really disappointed... (none)
    Las Vegas? C'mon-is this a joke? Say it ain't so...

    It is time Christians were judged more by their likeness to Christ than their notions of Christ. -William Penn

    by chicagochristianleft on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:50:46 AM PDT

  •  What happens in Vegas... (none)
    is spread far and wide to the corners of our nation and the world, changing the face of democracy as we know it :)

    Where's Osama? Bumperstickers should be issued.

    by tooblue on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:51:42 AM PDT

  •  Woo-freakin'-hoo, y'all! (none)
    VEGAS, baby!

    That totally made my day. Now I just have to find a job, pay off my debts, and save $1500-2000 so I can go.

    Eesh. Maybe if you'd have picked Chicago I wouldn't have gone, and I wouldn't have this problem...

    ...but still, VEGAS, BABY!

    "Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage." --HL Mencken

    by PerfectStormer on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:51:48 AM PDT

  •  For those in the upper Midwest who are going (none)
     May I recommend flying out of Rockford, Illinois, especially if you're in the Chicagoland area? The rates are pretty good, and there are direct flights available from both TransMeridian and Hooters air.

     Plus, if you wanted to, say, visit Jane, that would be good, too.

     (End Blatant Plug here)

    I tell you there is a fire. They have this day set a blazing torch to the temple of constitutional liberty and, please God, we shall have no more peace forever.

    by Anderson Republican on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:52:39 AM PDT

  •  I'm so excited! (none)
    Having been to Vegas three times, two in the past year, I can tell you that there's plenty of wholesome, family fun activity in Vegas.  At least that's my friends that I ditched for some real action told me.

    The road to hell is paved with Good Intentions.

    by JenAtlanta on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:54:18 AM PDT

  •  No offense but.. (none)
    The Riviera is a dump and is not kid-friendly at all. Don't bring them.
    •  Sigh... (3.00)
      The Riv is undergoing serious renovations, which will be completed by the date of the convention....

      Our own Anika, Event Planner extraordinaire and parent, liked it and endorsed it.  Also, there will be package information regarding activities for those with kids (as well as Day Care!).  I may not bring the twins because, well, by that time I'll want to be taking a little Mommie time, but anyone with concerns about kids should email us and we'll give our updated family activity information as soon as it's available

      •  One hopes they are serious (none)
        When I was last there it was run down and dumpy, the casino low-ceilinged, and smoke-filled. If you've seen the movie Casino with DeNiro you'll know what they were looking for, a 70's-looking place. And the crowd was mainly of the cowboy hat variety, with all the attendant cultural stereotypes. Not one of my favourites.
    •  But... (none)
      ...aren't they the ones wtih the best buffet on the strip?

      I seem to recall hearing someone say that the last time I went there.

      I like the view from the moral highground.

      by DawnG on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:21:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Whew! (none)
    For a minute, I was afraid that YearlyKos would conflict with my other major event of 2006:  the 9th North American Fur Trade Conference and 12th Rupert's Land Colloquium.

    I mean, I can't miss that!

    And we'll all float on okay - Modest Mouse

    by Linnaeus on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:56:39 AM PDT

  •  Oh, HELL yeah! (none)
    My wife has wanted to visit Vegas for years.  This will be the perfect excuse to drag the family out to Nevada!


    I'm a pro-gun, pro-nuclear-power Reform Democrat.
    UUJN: Brother Venerable Katana of Mindful Forgiveness

    by AlphaGeek on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:56:44 AM PDT

  •  modems hookups in the rooms? (none)
    So we can feed our addiction, I hope.

    SOCIAL SECURITY: Invented by Democrats yesterday, Protected by Democrats today

    by mollyd on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:57:39 AM PDT

  •  My mom lives outside of Las Vegas (none)
    in Henderson.  I can kill two birds with stone.  

    Errr.  You know what I mean.

    First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

    by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:59:03 AM PDT

  •  Wooohooo. Vegas!!! (none)
    Where do I sign?

    OK Philly, let's bring the cheesesteaks,the soft pretzels and the Constitution.

    Common sense isn't that common - Voltaire

    by obgynlover on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:59:23 AM PDT

  •  Bright light city, gonna set my soul... (none)
    gonna set my soul on fire!!


    Politics: It's all fun and games until somone dies.

    by advisorjim on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:02:11 AM PDT

  •  I'll be there. n/t (none)

    Honest to God. The Daily Show jokes just write themselves these days, don't they? --Kevin Drum

    by Susan S on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:05:37 AM PDT

  •  Kid-friendly (none)
    If the gathering is going to be held at the Riviera, those with kids might consider staying at the Circus Circus, which is right across the street and is so kid-friendly you can barely hear yourself think.
    •  It's also... (none)
      a lot cheaper--rooms there can often be had for like $49 a night, and they're perfectly servicable, even for adults (I stayed there a few weeks ago).
      •  One tip (none)
        The last time I stayed at Circus Circus, some of the rooms were still not set up for internet access.  So if this is important to you, you would want to make sure and request it.

        Or you could just stay at the Riv, which is excellent, really.  The view from the Top of the Riv room is out of this world!!

    •  child care committee (none)
      Actually, we want to have a kids program for all the little kossacks. We just need some volunteers to look into it

      YearlyKos...What's your AGENDA

      by gina on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:22:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ahem! (none)
      Of course, no one has to stay at the Riv....BUT...the rates and costs of booking the event at the Riv relies on us producing people to stay at the Riv.  And we do get a decent room rate.

      Just so you know, the YKos team has several parents on it.  We're all concerned about accomodations and activities for kids.  For those interested in this aspect of the convention, stayed tuned.  Much more info on family activities will be forthcoming!

      •  Fair enough (none)
        I'm certainly not looking to mess anything up for the organizers!!

        I would just hate to see anyone skip the event because they were worried about "kid-friendly" issues, so I wanted to point out that there is a good option available.  Of course, you should listen to your Cruise Director at all times. :)

    •  For the younger kids... (none)
      Living here with a  2 1/2-year-old, I'm always looking for things to do. A couple of weeks ago, we did one on the cheap.

      Drove over to the Flamingo, where there are penguins, turtles, koi, and of course, flamingos in their animal habitat. Before anyone freaks, these are South African penguis who endure Las Vegas style heat as part of their natural habitat.

      My daughter gets a kick out of the habitat, and is convinced one of the koi is named Nemo.

      From there, we hop on the Monorail for a trip on a "train" to the MGM Grand. She loves the ride. A great money-saving tip - the Monorail costs $3 a ride, but you can buy a 10-ride pass for $20. The cool thing is that everyone in your party can use the pass. Each person just puts the pass into the turnstile in turn. The cab ride from the Flamingo would be about $13 one way. The end Monorail cost is $2. If you've got kids under 3, they ride free.

      At the MGM, there is another free exhibit, a lion habitat. Keepers come out and toss the lions balls to play with, play tug of war with rags, etc., and one cool element of the exhibit is the plexiglass tunnel where the on which the lions like to lounge, allowing you to walk underneath them. There are also young lions that are too cute for words.

      Got older kids? They can take the monorail to the Las Vegas Hilton, where they can do the whole Star Trek thing. Or, if they're into malls, they can shop till they drop at the Fashion Show mall across from Treasure Island and the Wynn (on weekends thay actually do runway fashion shows inthe middle of the mall), or at the Forum Shops at Caesar's, Canal Shoppes at the Venetian, Desert Passage at the Aladdin, or the shops at Bellagio. While many of these shops are high-end, they make for great window shopping, and there are some more affordable shops in each of them.

      And of course, there are plenty of ride-type amusements, including the rollercoasters at Circus Circus, NYNY, Stratosphere and Sahara.

      And that doesn't count all the things you can do OFF the strip.

      What's the Question? - What do you want to ask? -

      by lsoderman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 06:56:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damn.... (none)
    Now I can't go [sniffle}
  •  Living in Chicago (none)
    but loving Vegas as a choice.
  •  I wish (none)
    we could hold this event in july. Because for us committment-challenged, June '06 is a long ways away.

    If you can read this, then you hate freedom.

    by NeoconSemanticist on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:10:07 AM PDT

  •  For the 2nd Annual KosConvention... (none)
    ...I pre-nominate Black Rock Desert, Nevada, during Burning Man.  Cheap, inspiring (even without the help of pharmaceuticals), a little hard to get to, true, but we'd be among friends...or people even more "out there" than us.  KosCamp at Burning Man 2007!

    "When the intellectual history of this era is finally written, it will scarcely be believable." -- Noam Chomsky

    by scorponic on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:10:42 AM PDT

  •  Good convention planning decisions (none)
    I know, I planned one in Chicago myself!
    Nevermore, it's like herding cats through a waterfal!

    Thumbs up for the good job!

    When morality is only about sex, no aspect of war - even the killing of entire families - can arouse criticism, much less condemnation.

    by lawnorder on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:17:11 AM PDT

  •  As mentioned above (4.00)
    In the diary and comments, I did visit Vegas at the beginning of June. I was there from June 2nd to the 4th and we did stay at the Riviera.  There are a couple of observances I should address:

    Climate:  It's been mentioned how hot it will be.  Well, Vegas doesn't really heat up (at least in my book) until the end of June, beginning of July.  The highest it got was about 86.  That was 10 degress higher than LA was at the same time and about 4 - 10 degrees cooler than some parts of the rest of the country.  I had my 2 yr. old with me and she loved the desert breeze and spent time at the pool.

    Keep in mind that I am pregnant and still wasn't uncomfortably hot, but I know if I go up there this weekend like I'm supposed to, I'll probably do a lot of whining.

    Family-friendliness:  Please see the list of activities I put together above.  Not only did it take me forever to compile it, but it's really helpful.  My best friend lives in Vegas and she has a 1.5 year old and a 10 mos old and she said that she's taken her kids to most of the family places above.  When we were there, they took my daughter to the zoo and aquarium and my husband said it was fun.  

    This list does not include activities we'll design with our daycare staff.  I think we'll tackle that once we get a better feel on the ages and how many children will be in attendance.

    Cheaper Hotels:  Personally, I think that Nolan negotiated a great rate.  Many people have mentioned considering other hotels to save money.  With all the mergers and buyouts, I was shocked at how expensive Vegas has gotten in the last few years.  We usually stay at the Las Vegas Hilton and it would run us about $59 a night on a weekend.  The cheapest room I could find for them for the same weekend was $219.  Yikes!

    Anyway, I did some research on hotel rooms that weekend and only 2 other hotels on the strip will be cheaper by $1 - $3.  Every place else was either $5 - $159 more.  For example:   For the same weekend as the convention, Circus Circus was $119 a night and Westward Ho was $109 a night.

    I hope this helps a little.  Thanks to everyone who is making this happen.  I know that I fully appreciate the feedback from the community on this.  You guys are all awesome.

    •  Thanks and more galleries (none)
      Thanks for your awesome work on this. We just came back from Vegas this Wednesday ourselves. Went purely for a quick vacation without the kid :).
      Anyway, we saw two great galleries there-- at Bellagio and at the Wynn. Bellagio will probably not have the same exhibit anymore, but Wynn likely will. Both are $15 ticket, $12 for students and seniors. Bellagio has the Impressionist landscape exhibit now, and it's very interesting.
      The Wynn has his private collection. Only 15 pieces exhibited, but they are each a masterpiece. Including the only one of the 36 known works of Vermier that is in private hands. Rembrandt, Goghen, Van Gogh, Renoir, Monet are all represented with gorgeous paintings. Also two very interesting and provocative Picassos.
      Both galleries give you the audio guide with the price of admission.
      Hope this helps.  
      •  I just replied (none)
        To your post above about the galleries and why I left those particular ones off.  
        •  I get not wanting to go into casinos (none)
          But both of these can be acessed without steping foot into casinos. You listed most of the casino-associated spas, so I thought these galleries were appropriate.
          The Wynn one was definitely the highlight of this trip, along with a hilarious show by the Second City at the Flamingo. Unfortuntely, you do have to walk through the casino to get to their little performance space. But they are absolutely worth it, I think.
          Thanks again.
  •  right choice (none)
    It's hard to say whether I will be able to get there (with my current financial situation it's not possible, but hey, that could change), but the cost aspect is compelling...
  •  The Riviera -- a Short Review (none)
    I attended a friend's wedding at the Riviera Wedding Chapel three years ago and stayed at the hotel.  The hotel is a second (maybe third) tier Vegas Hotel.  It was probably au courant about fifteen to twenty years ago.  The rooms are nice, but the "entertainment complex" is seedier than, say, the Venitian, Paris or New York, New York.  By seedy, I don't mean you'll find homeless drunks wandering around.  It just means you have a more working class clientele, people in cowboy boots and polyester instead of ball gowns and Italian suits.  The shops don't sell thirty thousand dollar sculptures and there aren't black jack tables where the minimum bet is $100.  If you like meat, there's a pretty good steak house on site, but if you're into California cuisine, you'll have to make the trip to Wolfgang Puck's place at the Venitian.

    We liked the Riviera's house Elvis, who plays a lumpy, end of career Elvis.

    Since the wedding had a large contingent of Humboldt County, California folks, some of us got high and wandered around the more swanky casinos, hypnotized by the blinking lights from thousands of video slot machines and tripped out by people in tuxedos and ball gowns who bet thousands of dollars on one roll of the dice. This was fun.

    We laughed ourselves silly at New York, New York, whose totem is the Statue of Liberty, bent over with her skirt lifted a la Marilyn Monroe in the Seven Year Itch.

    As HST made clear, it's practically mandatory that you be high in Las Vegas, though I'm too old these days for tangling with hotel security or a law enforcement convention while on 600 mics of acid.  

    I think my spouse and I bet a total of $0.50 the whole weekend.  We had fun, but Vegas is not a place I would go to just to have fun.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:39:37 AM PDT

    •  As mentioned in the previous diary (none)
      The Riviera is going through some major renovations this year.  Some are completed and the rest will be done by spring '06.  I can tell you that from 3 years ago to today is a big difference.  

      I was just there in Oct. '03 and I remember it being kinda depressing and dark.  Like the old Sahara used to be like.  When I was there in June, I was pleased with how much cleaner it was and how much brighter everything was.  Yes, the clientele is different from those who stay at Mandalay Bay, but since I live around hipsters, the Riviera is welcome change.

  •  I LOVEEEE Vegas (none)
    For people who have never been there or have not been there in the last 10 years, just think of it as an Adult Disneyland. There is so much to see even without the gambling. As for kids, Circus Circus, which is close to the Riviera has a whole Children's area as does Excalibur. The kids use more quarters than you do. There are some great virtual reality rides and roller coasters. Desparado is at Buffalo Bills at Stateline (Cal-Nev border) and that is 30 mins from the Strip.  And you can take a ride to Lake Mead and the Hoover Damn where you have a historical site and nature. So please know that Vegas is a must see in life. Someone compared it to Reno, but Reno would be like the putt putt golf course next to the Smithsonian.

    And best of all, lots and lots of Kossacks. The common thread and real reason for going.

    Fix the Problems, Don't create new ones

    by BarnBabe on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:56:45 AM PDT

  •  Holy Crapshoot Batgirl! (none)
    Does this mean I have to go out and buy a moo moo dress and a really bad perm??  This is soooo cool!
    Thank you to all who worked so hard on this.

    ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

    by DEFuning on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:17:26 AM PDT

  •  We did want to go to a purple state... (none)

    Not entirely for Vegas... but we did want to go to a purple state and Nevada certainly fits...

    Now... what are the chances of getting Harry Reid to speak?

    Bush will be impeached.

    by jgkojak on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:19:19 AM PDT

  •  This is great news (none)
    Whoo-hooo!  The Riviera will be a nice place after the renovation (I haven't stayed there in a few years.)

    I almost can't wait.  Can you imagine the buzz as 1000's of people accross the country are reving their blogging attack engines for the Nov 2006 elections?

    There is going to be some strategy developed at this conference that is going to influence hundreds of national, state and local elections.  

    That, combined with the long view that taking our country back is a decade or decade and a half process, is going to make for one hell of conference.

    Rock and Roll.  

  •  What month will it be? (none)
    Will it overlap with Dem Fest, Take Back America Conferences, etc?

    Stop Corporate Influence; buy DEMOCRACY BONDS!!!

    by timber on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:27:49 AM PDT

  •  a chance to impact other visitors to LV (none)
    Maybe while Kossacks are in Las Vegas you can carry a message wherever you go while moving about town.  On the couple of occasions I've been in LV, I've noticed that the bulk of the people visiting there seem to be just the ones we are aiming for in the 2006 election -- the midwesterners.

    Wear t-shirts, distribute fliers, etc. to let them know how important the 2006 election is for changing the direction of America.  They're already beginning to wise up so let's close the sale.

    An aside comment to agree with another -- Vegas in June??  A month earlier would have been more tolerable as far as daytime temperatures but I guess Kossacks with children were being considered and most are out of school in June.

    I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

    by blue drop on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:36:40 AM PDT

    •  Impact (none)
      That is exactly why I had wanted to go with a red state (AZ, NM, MO, etc...).  I think we may have a wonderful impact on the type of people we want.  When I was there last month, I did notice a LOT less Flag, God and Bush t-shirsts.  Everyone pretty much stuck to NASCAR and Bud.  

      As far as the weather is concerned, see my comment above.  It was so nice there, warm and breezy. Almost tropical--not hot at all.  I guess an artifical environment can do that...I'm not complaining.

      •  see my following post (none)
        "just a thought"

        I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

        by blue drop on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 11:17:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good idea (none)
          That is a very good idea, though I wonder how many people would like to be that confrontational--it could get nasty, you know.  But I really do like it.  
          •  you're probably right (none)
            It is a pity that Americans can no longer have reasonable political discussion with one another.  You can thank Mr. Bush and the Christian extremists for that.  But, who knows, by June of next year they may be willing to listen.

            That's why I suggested Kossacks from their home state.  Maybe they would be less put off and be willing to discuss issues and candidates related to their home state.

            I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

            by blue drop on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 01:24:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  you're probably right (none)
            It is a pity that Americans can no longer have reasonable political discussion with one another.  You can thank Mr. Bush and the Christian extremists for that.  But, who knows, by June of next year they may be willing to listen.

            That's why I suggested using Kossacks from their home state.  Maybe they would be less put off or confrontational and be willing to discuss issues and candidates related to their home state.

            I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

            by blue drop on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 01:27:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  just a thought (none)
      There are lots of people on the streets in LV walking about from hotel to casino to restaurant and so on.  So, perhaps have someone hold up a sign saying "If you're from Oklahoma, stop here".  Another person a little distance down the strip with their sign, "If you're from Iowa, stop here."  And so on, you get the idea.

      Then as you get people to stop, clusters of Kossacks that are native to those states can have some informed political discussion with the people passing by.

      Anyway, just one idea that sprung to mind.

      I'm a blue drop in a red bucket.

      by blue drop on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:47:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Airline tickets (none)
    How about from Europe?  Any savings there?


    •  PP, can't have it w/o you (none)
      I'll send my Lear Jet.  Seriously, I wonder if there's anything we can do for overseas Kossacks who may need help getting here.  Any ideas?
      •  See above on chartering flights (none)
        British Midlands goes from the Continent to London super cheap, and there are flights from London to Vegas (ouch, that must be a long one).
        We could book a charter from London and probably get r/t costs from there down in to the $300-$400 range.  It's been a while but IIRC BM Air used to do a London to Schipol(sp?) for 80 Pounds r/t.

        Might and Right are always fighting In our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning. Might can hardly keep from grinning. -Clarence D

        by Myrkury on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 06:43:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  you could... (none)
      easyjet it (or transavia it, or ryanair it, billions of discount carriers) to london, fly air india or air kuwait to NYC, then get a jet blue ticket to Las vegas.  Or something like that.

      Or you could be lazy like me and rock the KLM and get hella frequent flyer miles.  

  •  Password (none)
    On the pre-registration form, why do I have to give my dKos account password?

    Not cool.  I really don't want to do that.

  •  I have never been to Las Vegas (none)
    and I don't think it is my cup of tea - but I would love to come to Las Vegas next year!!!

    "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

    by adigal on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:42:55 AM PDT

  •  Interested in going...will ask hubby (none)
    but thinking of going solo, sans hubby and kids because--

    1. If my kids are in tow (3 & 6, respectively) I'll be Mommy first and Suzq second.

    2. My hubby is not that into politics.  Any activities for the non-political spousal units?

    3. He travels all the time without us (for work.)  Payback time!

    IDEA  --- IDEA  --- IDEA  --- IDEA

    How about a PAY PAL ACCOUNT where those Kossacks who can't go can contribute to FINANCIAL AID to Kossacks less financially endowed???

    I'd contribute.

    •  Non-political spouse AND kids (none)
      Dude, you got a built in babysitter.  My husband is going to be watching the kids when they're not in daycare.  I hadn't thought of activities for non-political spousal units because my husband is such a loner, he would never participate.  It never occured to me that others would.  The list I compiled has a lot of activities and I'm sure our activities committee will finalize most details, but we can put together stuff for them.  Like golf trips or trips out to the Grand Canyon, hiking or shopping trips.  Anything is possible.  We could probably even put together matinee show packages.
    •  Great idea on the account (none)
      let's see what we do with contributions.  I hope we can do something where the organization contributes and Kossacks do as well.

      As for the kids, I'm a single mom and will be leaving them with their beloved babysitter.  I can't imagine doing the stuff I need to do there and being a good mommie at the same time.  It will be only the second time I'm away from them, so you can spot me with a huge grin on my face.  Oh, um, tears, too.  Of course. I'll sadly slurp my martini.

  •  Affordability... key for me... (none)
    and I've already put it on my bosses' calendars that I will be away...

    I think we talked in an earlier iteration of this whole thing that some of us might be willing to give a few bucks to help sponsor others... I'm still willing so let me know when/if that option comes up...

    Thanks for making this happen! It will be groovy to meet everyone face to face...

    Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder. - George Washington

    by crkrjx on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:50:27 AM PDT

  •  Help!! I cannot get in to fill out the name/etc (none)
    on the top of the form.  Thanks if you have any suggestions.

    "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

    by adigal on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 10:52:44 AM PDT

  •  CAN WAIT! (none)
    Very, very exciting indeed.
  •  Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (none)
    ... is one of my favorite books. Ich bin ein Hunter Thompsoner.

    Las Vegas is easily the most snark-worthy city in the US. We'll have tremendous fun there: it's Red State America on Mescaline heavily cut with speed by the Blue Staters who built and own it.  

    I'm imagining hanging out with Kossacks having deep philosophical discussions at the sidewalk cafés of Faux "Paris".  

    Holding forth on the rise and fall of the great powers among the columns and tacky statuary of Ceasar's Palace's Faux Rome.

    Discussing the flowering of humanism amidst the splendor of the Bellagio's Faux Florence.

    Pondering the mysteries of political dynasties surrounded by the trappings of Faux Egypt that is Luxor.

    Maybe catching a show to see Faux Ratpackers dueling it out with Faux Elvis... aboard a perfect recreation of the deck of the Starship Enterprise.

    I am so there.

    "A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten

    by Malacandra on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 11:00:13 AM PDT

  •  I would love to go, but... (none)
    ...Nevada is a red state.  Unfortunately, post-2004 I have decided to exercise what little power I have as an individual and stop traveling to or spending money in red states.  It's just a matter of principle.  After all, with all the pain and suffering and sleepless nights Karl Bush has given me over the last five years I don't see why I should give so much as a penny or a piss to the people who elected him.

    Been trying to do the same by boycotting corporations that gave money to the GOP last year.  However, that's one long list and it keeps growing...


    by Magnus Greel on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 11:08:51 AM PDT

  •  Yippee! (none)
    I won't even have to fly anywhere to attend! I hope you guys are ready to run into some truly gaudy tourists-bring your fanny packs! :)

    There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated...insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason.-NoFx

    by SairaLV on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 11:25:40 AM PDT

  •  I may have to come late (none)
    as currently scheduled, last day for students is June 7, for teachers June 9th.   Those dates could slide with a lot of bad weather, since we do not build in snow days to our calendar.

    I will once the school year starts try to put in to take two personal days for the 8th and 9th and fly out on the 7th, but I cannot guarantee that I will be granted permission to miss end of year activities.  I was granted such permission once before, but that was to attend a one week educational training session for which I was being given a $2,500 free ride.

    Those who can, do. Those who can do more, TEACH!

    by teacherken on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 11:35:58 AM PDT

  •  Membership number (none)
    I really hate posting such a stupid question, but I went to the pre-registration page and it asked for my dKos membership (account?) number. I looked at my profile, couldn't find it.

    Now I call myself "blonde moment" for a reason... but could someone tell me where to find this?

    After all, I wouldn't miss YearlyKos for anything - and it helps that my husband and I both LOVE LV!!! Hot damn, I can't wait!

  •  I can't support Vegas in the slightest (3.00)
    It's not the gambling. It's the fact that such a city is built in the middle of a freaking DESERT.

    This is simply environmentally unsustainable and should not be encouraged.

    Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.

    by admiralh on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 12:14:12 PM PDT

    •  Hot Damn (none)
      wish we'd thought about that!  I'm sure if we cancel our contract, they'll take the abomination down!  
      •  Snark if you must (4.00)
        But when they've emptied their aquifer and want to build a pipeline to bring in water from the Midwest, get back to me.

        There's a reason why the Anasazi civilization collapsed.

        Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.

        by admiralh on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 03:05:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not accurate (none)
          See my other comment upthread. Water usage by Las Vegas is dwarfed by the usage of Southern California, who not only imports Central California water, but Colorado River water as well. That's unsustainable. Water usage by Las Vegas is a great myth, but no more than that.  

          If you want to complain about water usage, boycott LA, San Diego, and Orange County, whose continued growth results in far more water usage than Las Vegas will ever come close to. Hollywood, Disneyland and Sea World will all have to do without visits.

          What's the Question? - What do you want to ask? -

          by lsoderman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 06:35:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I haven't been to SC in 20 years (none)
            Yes, far more people live in Southern California than is sustainable as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

            There got to be a massive re-thinking in this whole area soon, because the path we're on is unsustainable. Look at the Anasazi.

            Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.

            by admiralh on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:12:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I understand your concern... (none)
              ..and share it. My belief is that at least, Las Vegas is doing something about it. I moved here after living in Southern California for most of my life. And I can tell you that SC folks are far less careful about water waste than Nevadans. Oh sure, they tell you to put flow restrictors on your faucets, and suggest when you should water your lawn. But they haven't gone the further steps.

              In Las Vegas, you are assigned to watering groups, for example. You may only use sprinklers on certain days during certain hours. Drip irrigation is promoted heavily for its efficiency and water savings. Sod cannot be sold in the summer months at all, because of the heavy water needs for successful sod starting. Rock landscaping, both water friendly and more in tune with the surroundings, is strongly encouraged. Water District personnel patrol neighborhoods regularly looking for water waste, and fines can be substantial for both homeowners and businesses.

              The powers that be in the Las Vegas Valley realize they are growing quickly and will run into serious problems of they don't minimize water usage before there is a crisis. This is something Southern California as not done. They will pay more for their water before they take serious steps to curb usage.

              Growth is a problem throughout the country. We can and should encourage our lawmakers and neighbors to enact and follow standards by which growth can be matched with sufficient resources so we can ensure situations like that of water and power in the Southwest do not continue to occur.

              What's the Question? - What do you want to ask? -

              by lsoderman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:03:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not a Vegas local, obviously (none)
                so I am unaware of local efforts to cut water used. What I do see is the conspicuous consumption by all the casinos, and this leads to the general impression of a community that is totally geared towards "live for today".

                Actually, I currently live in St. Louis at the confluence of the two largest rivers in the country, so water quantity is generally not a problem. And I'm originally from northeast Ohio, so again, water quantity is not a problem.

                Water quality on the other hand ... but that's a different topic.

                There are other problems with Vegas besides water. Energy used for air conditioning is another. Something I've never seen, but would be very interesting, would be a chart of various cities/regions/countries and their per capita energy usage. I know the US in general is the highest in the world, but some regions of the US use more than others. Another question is where does the energy you use come from? I would think Nevada would be great for wind farms.

                Being from the rust belt, I've watched our area be devastated by industry moving to union-busting environmentally wasteful communities in the South and West. Cleveland was ridiculed for the Cuyahoga river catching fire, and they did a tremendous amount of work to clean it up. But then much industry, faced with the higher costs of greater environmental regulation, simply packed up and moved to places where the local powers-that-be didn't seem to care.

                Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.

                by admiralh on Sat Jul 09, 2005 at 08:53:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Might actually be able ot make it to Vegas.. (none)
    will see if I can make it happen.

    I know flights are cheaper to Vegas than most anywhere, so could be doable for me.


    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 12:16:59 PM PDT

  •  How do I get Anika's job? (none)
    Let it be known that I would gladly volunteer for any future fact finding missions to Las Vegas, even if I have to research every bar, casino, and show in the city limits.

    Kossacks deserve no less!

  •  Nuke Las Vegas (none)
    My hard-core rafting roommate's bumber-sticker...
    Couldn't resist.  (Not sorry now, maybe later.)

    Some people would like the Colorado River put back the way it was before we had government in-beds in Arabia and Las Vegas sucking vast precious energy for flashy lights, desert golfgreens/waterparks, and the gambling Industry Of No Hope.

    Too bad it couldn't be San Francisco or anywhere at all else.

    Never been to Vegas, hope I never go.

    •  MIsinformed (none)
      The Hoover Dam was built in the 30's for the purpose of controlling the flow of the river, as well as for the generation of electricity for the growing West Coast states. The Salton Sea in California was created by flooding of the Colorado River in 1905-1907, which also caused extensive damage. This was followed by more flooding in 1916. At the time, Las Vegas was a small railroad town of little importance. In fact, it wasn't until the 50's that the town began to grow.

      The energy created by Hoover Dam isn't even dented by Las Vegas. In fact, the entire state of Nevada is only allocated 21% of the power generated. Los Angeles alone uses 15%. Arizona uses nearly 19%. So saying rhat Las Vegas is "sucking vast precious energy" is misinformed, a common myth that has been perpetuated by those who don't like the idea of Las Vegas in general.

      Southern Nevada water usage is limited to 330,000 acre feet per year. In comparison California (mainly Southern California) uses 4.4 million acre feet per year of Colorado River water.

      Most people think Las Vegas is a big town. In, fact, there are approximately 2 million people living in the Las Vegas Valley area. By contrast, here are the populations of some of its neighbors:

      Phoenix: 1.4 million
      San Diego: 1.2 million
      Los Angeles, CA : city - 3.8 million, county - 9.9 million

      Some other comparisons:

      New York, NY - 8.8 million
      Orlando, FL - 1.2 million
      Chicago, IL - 2.9 million

      Las Vegas has a big look, but as far as metro areas are concerned it is no better than average size by any stretch.

      In addition, the population has been put on a strict water "diet" with some of the most stringent water restrictions in the country, as well as programs to reduce water usage, such as buyback programs for lawns, where the water district will pay homeowners to remove grass from their yards.

      The folks here on DailyKos are generaly pretty good at getting facts straight. It's unfortunate that so many just follow the conventional wisdom/myths in regards to this town.

      What's the Question? - What do you want to ask? -

      by lsoderman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 06:25:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •   "The Fact of the Matter Izzzz..." (none)
        That's one of Rummy's favorite disrespectful intros when speaking to elected officials in that know-it-all way he has with everyone whose facts don't jibe with the propaganda.

        Read again.  I said before, and yes there are still people living who once did and wish they still could hike in majestical places in the Grand Canyon that are now a power pool.  Ahoy, Speedboats! Jetskis! (More gas, please Mr. Saudi Prince.)  

        Your stats don't include the Billion Visitors, Vast Precious energy sucked to light up outer space (I'll send you something from NASA if you can't look it up yourself), and egregious obvious other waste I'm too busy to document for you.

        Go back to the the RNC website you came from where they will comfort you.

        •  Wow have you misjudged (none)
          Equating me with Rumsfeld? Heh, that's a good one.

          This has nothing to do with propaganda. And I don't disagree with folks who wish it hadn't been dammed almost 70 years ago. But it was, and it was for a reason, whether you agree with the reason or not.

          The stats explicitly mentioned the amount of power used. That includes all usage by visitors, residents, period. By your argument, we should inflate the amount in Southern California, New York or any other major visitor destination. But the usage is the usage.

          Hyperbole is usually the argument used when the argument itself doesn't fly. "Billions" of visitors? Nope. 36.7 million is closer to the truth. Visitors to Los Angeles? 25.1 million. Southern California in general? 38 million. New York City? 40 million.

          Yeah, there's a light that can be seen from space. And sometimes you can see a space object or two from Earth. Is it excessive? Probably. Is the St. Louis Arch? Did those need to be built? How about Boston's New Charles River Bridge?  Did it need to have such architectural flair? Couldn't a more simple, cost effective design have been used?

          I never used the phrase you quoted. And the info is readily available to anyone who wants to spend the time to look for it.

          I'm all for protecting the environment, conserving valuable resources, minimizing the use of non-renewable sources while finding renewable alternatives. But I am also for revealing canards when the pop up. You are speaking from opinion. I backed up my statement with information. You backed yours up with insult. Sounds far more RNC to me...

          What's the Question? - What do you want to ask? -

          by lsoderman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 08:52:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Sorries (none)
        For the RNC slap. HOWEVER, I just returned from a couple of hours at the Friday night Walter Reed Army Hospital peace vigil and got bitchy after hearing a bunch of Pro-War Protesters (??!!) yell at us (not-gonna-shout) peaceniks from across the street.  I'm a lover, but they make we wanna kick some crotchety ass.  

        About Las Vegas...what are you gonna do?  It's there.  Europeans rule the former lands of American Indians. We stole a hunk of Mexico and razed Fallujah. Some things can be fixed up but never ever undone.  

        I just think it was/is/will ever be a Bad Idea idea to pump copious water and neon energy into the desert. Why There?? (SO Glad it's not on the Chesapeake Bay!!)

        LV has some of the best worker unions in the country. But still, there are more lasting concerns

        The damn thing flew out of my mouth even before I opened it!

        •  Yikes... (none)
          Remind me not to post when Bush nominates Dobson for the SC :)

          My point was that they really aren't pumping that much into it, by comparison. Southern California is actually desert land. But 100 years of development has turned it into what it is.

          You're right, both are there. I just wanted to set the record straight on Las Vegas. It's not the center of all evil that it likes people to think it is. The Colorado River problem has far more to do with Southern California than most other states, and the growth in SC is still out of control. Las Vegas' growth is primarily due to folks moving out of SC to try to find reasonable housing. But that has heated up the market so much that there really isn't much affordable out here anymore. Because of the nature of this area vs. SC, I think Las Vegas will start to slow down in the next couple of years. There just isn't enough viable land to build on close enough to where business is. Folks aren't going to move from one 45-minute per direction commute to another for the same price. I don't think the same can be said for SC.

          Sorry to hear about your experience at Walter Reed. The Republican/right's answer always seems to be "shout louder" as if that will make their falsehoods true. Me, I'm a geek who likes the facts. That's why I like making sure they're represented. And why I never try to use facts with folks from the right. Facts don't matter to them, only volume.

          What's the Question? - What do you want to ask? -

          by lsoderman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 09:17:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I like you (none)
            You FactMonger!  :>

            "Hyperbole is usually the argument used when the argument itself doesn't fly."  
            Amen. (But it's fun to say billions when the truth is tens-of-millions-too-many.)

            Okay: 25 million visitors to LA per year, 38mil to SCal, GaZillions to NY (There I go.. Did you look up these Current Numbers, 'cause I'm Jealous of steel-trap-door minds..)

            Comparative numbers matter, and there is a bigger pic draw, but about Las Vegas ...

            It's not just the the EnergyWaste and All That Entails (WoW!) or the MoneyGreed and its resulting Misery (WoW, Baby!) or the plastic-Jesus spirituality (Now DeadlyToxic under Dobsonian NewFundamentalist Crusades.)

            It's All Of It as a Way Of Life, as a WAY, a Tao, propped up (Thanks Kos!) as A Valid Way to Live /dream vacation: C'mon Kids - learn this!), just like WarmongerMoneyMachine(and All That Fucking Entails!) is given as a Valid Way of Life by the WarHeads.

            And not much of Mother Nature to curtail the nausea of Life Out Of Balance.

            Once upon a time we were all brand new and shiny.   What warped starry eyed moms and dads dream their kids will some day make a home in LV?  

            What are we doing on this pretty blue dot? Sucking and spewing, scoring and pimping, showing off and blowing up stuff.  Entertainment?

            There are myriad ways to live well and without whoring it up. I'm guessing Atlantic City has other things going for it besides the obvious. (Never been/going)

            I hate Bunkerheads (Bush/Satan/Bolton), but I love the NukeLasVegas bumpersticker, though my car would never wear one.

            I'm going to play in my yard now, with herbs & veggies, new & old trees, fine music, snacks, beer, the dogs next door and the felines at the local catnip bar. And maybe later waste a little gas on some scenic backroads with no malls and no sprawl.

            P.S.  Hundreds of millions of people on Earth live on one dollar a day or less.  Not sure, but I think this is related.

  •  Enjoy the Second Hand Smoke (none)
    If you're not a smoker, and you go to Las Vegas, you will be. Even if your room is "non-smoking" the pillows and mattresses will smell like tar, and the lobbies and elevators are gas chambers. Enjoy!

    Fox News is a propaganda outlet of the Republican Party - DNC Chair Howard Dean

    by easong on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 02:13:12 PM PDT

  •  Vegas!! (none)
    That's fine with me,actually I love it!
    I lost my job today and needed some good news.Thanks!
    The form won't let me pre-register!Make a note,I'll be there.

    The truth will set you free,but first it will piss you off.

    by mint julep on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 02:23:37 PM PDT

    •  sorry 'bout the job (none)
      here's a four....what was the problem with preregistering?  Did you put in your dKos name?  I don't think it requires a password.  If you can tell me, I'll pass it on to someone who can look into it.  Thanks!
  •  No objections to Vegas here (none)
    Now I have to see if I can make it there. Being a student, September is a sucky month for me to get away.
  •  So Chicago (4.00)
    won the vote, but we awarded it to Las Vegas anyway.

    Tell me...Did we use Diebold Vote Tabulators???

    Was the vote counted in Ohio or Florida?

    Did we get a ruling from the Supreme Court?

    Clearly, the will of the people means as little to yKos as it does to the Neocons.

    Tom DeLay is so corrupt...<HOW CORRUPT IS HE?>...He's so corrupt that when he takes the Oath of Office, he holds his hand OUT instead of UP!

    by mlkisler on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 03:27:58 PM PDT

    •  If you read up thread (none)
      you'll see the reasons why.  Basically, it's to allow more people to go.  I reckon some folks will be mad and there's nothing we can do about that.  But I hope you'll come anyway.
    •  DISCLAIMER: (none)
      I live in Chicago, but that's not what's upsetting me. I couldn't afford to go even if it WERE in Chicago.

      I'm upset at the HYPOCRISY of us bitching about Bush manipulating the vote, then doing the same thing ourselves.

      You can "rationalize" all you want. It doesn't change the fact that the POPULAR VOTE WAS IGNORED...Which makes us hypocrites.

      Tom DeLay is so corrupt...<HOW CORRUPT IS HE?>...He's so corrupt that when he takes the Oath of Office, he holds his hand OUT instead of UP!

      by mlkisler on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 04:47:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, I don't think it makes YOU (none)
        a hypocrit, if that makes you feel any better.  It's a convention, not leadership of the free world (such as that is), fer chrissakes!  

        There will be some sort of fund for those who can't afford, but want to go, so I hope you look out for that information and attend!

      •  read the fucking diary (4.00)
        84% of preregistrants said cost should be a major factor in determining location. That is a clear mandate. Clearly, the decision was based on more than just a poll which is appropriate and responsible.
  •  We were hoping for Chicago, but... (none)
    ...we're coming out to Las Vegas!

    My GF has an uncle that lives in the city that she wants to see.  For me, I'd like to see how much the place has changed since 1981, the last time I passed through there.

    Savings account starts NOW!


    The answer to "compassionate conservatism" isn't timid progressivism.--Sen. John Corzine (D-New Jersey)

    by AAbshier on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 05:08:03 PM PDT

  •  Okay, I'm confused. (none)
    Airfare is cheaper to Vegas.  Airfare from where?  Airfare is cheaper to Vegas from anywhere?

    Nero fiddled. Bush bicycles.

    by jazzmaniac on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 05:17:49 PM PDT

  •  So its Vegas, not Paris! (none)
    Paris loses out again  :-(

    Why do you hate France?

    New International Times, the place where Kossacks and the world meet.

    by Welshman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 05:32:08 PM PDT

    •  Gather the European contingent (none)
      and move the continent to Las Vegas.  It wouldn't be a convention without you guys.  You can take the UK, jerome and lupin France, soj romania, and Page in whatever scandanavian country she's in and we got it.
    •  Oooooh, you silly man... (none)
      But Vegas IS Paris
      Image hosted by
      "Set amid cobblestone pathways, French wrought iron street lamps, and the base of our Eiffel Tower, you'll find the most exuberant area Paris Las Vegas has to offer - our main casino floor."

      Always remember, Vegas is like Alice's Restaurant.

  •  Chicago should be out cuz of Daley. (none)
    You trash our Whip, force an apology for NOTHING, you don't ever get my money.

    I ain't going to no Democrat bashing mayor's city.

    You only regret the things you don't do.

    by DailyLife on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 05:41:05 PM PDT

  •  pre-register doesn't work (none)
    fill in all the blanks in the (oh so clever) fill in the blaqnk field and then nothing happens. Click on "sign me up" and it keeps on pulling down the menu for donations.

    How about K.I.S.S.?

    don't always believe what you think...

    by claude on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 07:22:31 PM PDT

  •  Vegas??? (4.00)
    Are you joking?

    Why not plan a beautiful summer vacation in the New York State Finger Lakes region? Wines, lakes, cheeses, vistas...

    by Percheronwoman on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 07:39:53 PM PDT

  •  Not one Celine Dion fan.... (4.00)
    We are concerned about the macroenvironment and the microdemocracy, but no one speaks for that olive on a toothpick, the creme of the Canadienne crop, "the best singer in the whole world", Ms. Celine "I love my father, er, husband, Rene" Dion. Have we no compassion?;)


    Changing the world one PR campaign at a time...A proud member of the YKos team!

    by cuiveen on Fri Jul 08, 2005 at 07:43:35 PM PDT

  •  This year a ticket to a conference in (none)
    Las Vegas cost me around $300.  

    And it's not a direct flight.

    And I'm afraid of flying.  

    And I can't figure out why yearly Kos would be held there, in terms of political principles etc.-- after all, Las Vegas is such an emporium of simulacra and glitz and fakery and expense.  

    I certainly don't know anything about Las Vegas the town, the place where thousands live and work.  Maybe it's a truly exhilarating place, as you say.

    In any event, I didn't make any input into the process so I am not complaining.  Thank you for all the work you did to work toward getting this planned.  I wish we could go!

  •  crap. (none)
    I could drive to Chicago...

    But if I can afford it..Vegas is nice..HOT but nice.

  •  Ahhhh, too bad (4.00)
    Now we can't make this our theme music...

    Chicago by Graham Nash

    So your brother's bound and gagged
    And they've chained him to a chair
    Won't you please come to chicago just to sing
    In a land that's known as freedom how can such a thing be fair
    Won't you please come to chicago for the help that we can bring

    We can change the world rearrange the world
    It's dying - to get better

    Politicians sit yourselves down, there's nothing for you here
    Won't you please come to chicago for a ride
    Don't ask jack to help you `cause he'll turn the other ear
    Won't you please come to chicago or else join the other side

    We can change the world rearrange the world
    It's dying - if you believe in justice
    Dying - and if you believe in freedom
    Dying - let a man live his own life
    Dying - rules and regulations, who needs them open up the door

    Somehow people must be free I hope the day comes soon
    Won't you please come to chicago show your face
    From the bottom of the ocean to the mountains of the moon
    Won't you please come to chicago no one else can take your place

    We can change the world rearrange the world
    It's dying - if you believe in justice
    Dying - and if you believe in freedom
    Dying - let a man live his own life
    Dying - rules and regulations, who needs them open up the door

    "A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." - Bertrand de Jouvenal

    by fightingdem on Sat Jul 09, 2005 at 04:51:57 AM PDT

  •  just like the fat cats (none)
    couldn't it have been some place without gambling and hookers?

    oh, what am i talking about.


  •  devo (none)
    this is 100% the wrong choice. it is not blue, it is not family, and it has no photo-ops. your bias for las vegas has been apparent from day 1.
    sadly, "yearlykos" has devolved into the very bad idea i was worried it would become.
    •  Ya know.... (none)
      you may be right about the bias for Las Vegas.  


      Well, as laid out in the diary we have responsibility for the attendance of more than one individual.

      It's cheaper to fly, eat, sleep, and meet in Las Vegas.  We want as many people to attend as possible.

      The punitive aspects of the Chicago contract could put us out of business.

      There's nearly a $100,000 difference in penalties between the contracts for Vegas and Chicago.

      Ever been to a convention, heterodoxy? Know where the photo ops are?  

      Convention photo ops are taken in front of podiums, signs welcoming attendees, and in conference rooms that are interchangeable whether they're in Chicago or Las Vegas.  If the picture you have from the convention you just attended shows you on the banks of Lake Michigan, guess what?  That picture was taken while you were not at the convention.

      There will be day care and family activity information available to every Kossack who plans to attend with kids.

      If you are unable to keep junior out of the maw of a showgirl, it won't be because we haven't given you other options.

      So, yes, fellow Kossack, fellow community member, we had to take into consideration the abilities of others to attend due to money and we had to take into consideration our duty to the organization to keep it going.

      We have biases that way.

      Obviously, because we didn't choose the city you wanted, we're sneaky, dirty, rotten scoundrels and the whole idea is bad.  I'm taking it we won't see you there.

      •  las vegas may be the reddest city in america (none)
        what is more republican than titty bars and johns and whores and gambling and boozing and, of course, all of this being charged to corporate credit cards so you and i pay for it?
    •  I agree (none)
      I was concerned from the beginning that members of the committee were lobbying strongly for Vegas.  It seems a selection committee should be impartial, or on the other hand, should simply choose a location without a vote.  If the cost comparisons were so radically different, and pre-registrants overwhelmingly said keeping things affordable should be a top consideration, why put the issue to a vote at all?  Why not just say Vegas wins and be done with it?  It's easy to see the problems that are likely to arise if the "wrong" choice wins, as it did here.  Personally, I believe the two hotels chosen were comparing apples and oranges -- there are more affordable hotels in Chicago that can accomodate large conventions -- the Hyatt and the Hilton are the top shelf.  And finally, please stop saying airfare is cheaper to Vegas.  Obviously, it depends on where you are flying from.  If you are anywhere  on the east coast, in the southeast, or in the midwest, it is almost certainly more affordable to fly to Chicago.  

      And say what you will about Vegas, it's simply the sleaze capital of the world, and I cannot support it with my tourist dollars.  When a city chooses to promote itself by promising you no one will find out what you did there...what more needs to be said?  Sigh.  

  •  My beef against Vegas (none)
    They are decimating the adjacent desert.

    Last time we were there, the hills at the mouth Red Rocks park were scarred with unsightly dirt bike trails.
    These hills were really beautiful, and the site was sickening.  It was as if they caught a disease.

    There was also a lot of sprawl out in formerly beautiful areas.

    This was a few years ago, and I heard that a few locals were fighting a losing battle.

    Prosperity and growth in Vegas is killing off that part of America the Beautiful.

    If you don't go there, please let them know that the environmental irresponsibility was a factor in the decision.

  •  Why not a purple state? (none)
    Maybe we can help tip the balance.
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