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 O.K., this is stream of consciousness.  Probably lots of typos.  A vent.  A rant.  An almost-real-time event.  Please, some help, therapy, validation, something positive, pleeaaaase . . .

 I'm at a local watering hole.  A new friend's invited me out for an after-work drink or three.  All's well.  Somebody joins our party of 3 or 4.  A woman.  She's engaged.  That's nice.  We get to talking.  She lends a very sympathetic ear.  Oh, did I tell you about the divorce?  But that's not politics, so, guess not something that needs to be "gone into" here.  Anyway, a nice person.  And all "yeh, your wife's broken all the rules" kind of sympathetic person.  Again, this is with several people around and in a public place and all.

 Then . . . somebody, NOT me, brings up the war in Iraq.  Then someone starts trashing . . . get this . . .   Al Gore !!!  I hold my tongue.  Somehow.  more . . .

 I listen and try and hold my tongue.  This group, whom I thought I knew rather well, starts trashing Al Gore!!!  About 9.11!!!  It's f'ing surreal!  As if Al Gore had been President (well, he was! just not in the White House!) in 2001!

 I finally have it "up to here."  Having kept silent for a few minutes, I say something like, "Well, of course, we'll never know what Gore would have done but, I'd like to think that he would've at least tried to have thwarted the 9.11 attacks, I mean, what with all the Al Qaida chatter going on in the Summer of 01 and that PDB from August 6.  Well, fellow Kosniacs, if you've never known what it feels like to have 5 people look at you like you have 5 heads and a small waste treatment plant in your boxer shorts, trust me, it's rather awkward.

 They (as we say here in the Deep South) "lit into me" like a pack of rabid coon dogs.  I'd spouted sacrelidge!  Bush did do the right thing!  How dare I speak good of Gore and disparagingly of Bush!  We all know that Saddam was a THREAT to the U.S.!!!  On and on and on. . . Limbaughesque vacuuous piffle.

 The came my unforgivable sin:  I asked questions!

  Well, if you had been President, wouldn't you have pulled out all the stops to have stopped an Al Qaida attack if you had been warned of such a thing.

  What, exactly did Bush do, or even try to do, to stop those Al Qaida operations that would become manifest in the 9.11 attacks???

  Do you really, I mean really think that Gore would've spent the month of August '01 on vacation if he had received the same intel as W. Bush??!

   . . . and about 3-5 more questions like that.  When I got any answers, they were something like, "Well Kim Song (not knowing Kim Jong Il's name) would 'have his way' with us if we didn't 'take a stand' in Iraq!"  

 I mean really loopy, Kool-Aid drinkin' crap.  Finally, I got this one woman to admit that Bush had done NOTHING to event attempt to thwart the 9.11 attacks and to admit that NONE of the 9.11 highjackers were Iraqi . . .  but that didn't matter:  I was "too intense" (to me, the Kool Aid drinkers "out" -- an easier way of saying, "O.K., I admit it:  my Limbaugh- and O'Reilly-esque talking points are nothing but shit."

 Then, this woman's friend comes in, the woman with whom I've exchanged the "heated" words above.  She (the friend) sees that her friend is upset (not boo-hoo crying, but upset).  They go to the bathroom together.  I talk a moment with another friend, a guy who says he, "Just doesn't know enough about it (log on to DailyKos, learn a LOT "about it"!!!) to comment."  Anyway, it's time to go.  I leave, having written a note on a napkin and leaving it with the woman server saying, "I'm sorry.  Forgive me."  

 Get it?  I wrote a note to her saying forgive me!!!

 Of course, I write the note because I feel so obligated to do it.  

 It's just so said . . .  And it's VERY frustrating.  Your thoughts  ? ? ?

 BenGoshi
__________________

Originally posted to BenGoshi on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 09:32 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Next time (4.00)
    Don't write the note.

    http://dumpjoe.com/

    by ctkeith on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 09:41:31 PM PDT

  •  Typical day at the office for me (4.00)
    I know that is a frustrating encounter.  I love the questions you asked, thats perfect.  

    I use to enjoy going out to lunch with people from work. I work for a small company and lunch often involves the principles as well as other staff.  Everythings great until the conversation turns to 9/11, Iraq, damn liberals, etc. very uncomfortable. The senior principles are rabid koolaid drinking repubs and I just have to bite my tongue to keep from exploding.

    Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the begining of wisdom. ---Bertand Russell

    by leeroy on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 09:48:13 PM PDT

    •  Thanks (4.00)

       I know it's "not just me."  And this isn't the first time.  Just the first time in a long while and one that, well, just "gets in my crawl" particularly bad just now...

       BenGoshi
      _________________

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 10:42:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kool-Aid Drinkers not limited to the Dirty South (none)
        Got a few here in Northern California, which is, for the most part, a liberal hotbed.  The Kool-Aid drinkers are mostly in Southern California, outside LA, and I sympathize because (a)they are Christian Minorities who believed Bush and starting swilling the grog back in 2000 and (b) as they watch gas shoot to $3.15 a gallon, jobs leaving the country and no healthcare, while they are sobering up off the Kool-aid, they can't bring themselves to admit that Bush screwed them.

        It's like going out partying and waking up next to a gargoyle that you thought was cute because it was after 2:00am (I've never had this experience because I was the fool watching my girlfriends' purses while they danced and drank the night away, and went home with said gargoyle).

        My Clinton moment "I feel your pain..."

        "I'm sorry; did you misspeak, or flat out tell a lie?, Cause the President does it ALL THE TIME."

        by The Truth on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 01:33:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And I feel *your* pain... (none)

           . . . I've lived your second paragraph, too (the parenthetical part, that is).

            And, also, thank you for reassuring me that it's not just here in the Deep South.  On one hand I wish you didn't have to endure such trogs, on the other hand, it's somewhat comforting knowing that other parts or pockets of the nation are suffering right along with you -- knowing that there's empathy out there.  And, on the other side of the coin, as I mention in one of my comments here, there are circles and pockets of people 'round here (hello, you're right now reading the words of one of them) in the Deep South who are not "Kool Aid Drinkers."

           Again, thanks.

           BenGoshi
          __________________

           

          . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

          by BenGoshi on Sat Aug 13, 2005 at 06:34:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Don't beat yourself up (4.00)
    Its always to a tough decision to go public with your political beliefs in a conservative or non-politcal environment.  I worked in a very conservative office, and once my views came out (in a similar situation where the alcohol was flowing and I couldn't sit back and let someone talk shit) I was the office commie to my conservative bosses from that point forward.  It wasn't all bad, though, because I found out that the office split actually split half and half on Bush and Gore.  Everyone just assumed everyone else was conservative.   I don't think you can be faulted for staying in the closet politically, or in your case, apologizing for Bush-bashing.  

    It takes a second to wreck it. It takes time to build.

    by lando on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 09:58:47 PM PDT

  •  Big huge, yet virtual, (4.00)
    hugs to you Ben.

    Breathe. Drink a glass of water/beer/wine/whiskey/rum n' coke. Go check out the snarkfest.

    "Computer. End holographic program...Computer? Computer?"

    by kredwyn on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 10:20:25 PM PDT

  •  Don't feel bad - (4.00)
    you were right, and who knows, maybe your words will eventually get one of the group to start thinking independently.  
  •  jeez (4.00)
    it's like you insulted jesus or something. (oh shit, is it THAT bad?)

    "Scott, this is ridiculous."

    by jokeysmurf on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 10:32:10 PM PDT

  •  Colin Powell DID act, in May 2001 (4.00)
    Or, at least, he did what I probably would have done if I were secretary of state under the same circumstances.

    See this article:


    U.S. warns Americans abroad against Bin Laden attacks

    Special to World Tribune.com
    MIDDLE EAST NEWSLINE
    Tuesday, May 15, 2001

    The United States is warning nationals abroad that they could be the target of Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden amid expectations that the Bush administration will move to condemn Syria and Lebanon.

    ...

    U.S. officials said the concern is that Bin Laden will retaliate for the expected  guilty verdict against his aides. They are being tried in a U.S. district court in New York in connection with the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Africa. The jury began deliberating on Thursday and could issue a verdict this week.

    Officials did not say whether Washington has any solid evidence that Bin Laden plans to launch attacks. They said Bin Laden has retaliated in the past for the detention of his aides.

    "The U.S. government has learned that American citizens abroad may be the target of a terrorist threat from extremist groups with links to Osama Bin Laden's Al Qaeda organization," the State Department said. "U.S. citizens are urged to maintain a high level of vigilance and to take
    appropriate steps to increase their security awareness to reduce their vulnerability. Americans should maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all required travel, and treat mail and packages from unfamiliar sources with suspicion."
    ...

    •  Oh, yeh . . . (4.00)

       . . . I told 'em that 2 people agreed with me that Iraq was no "threat" -- when they took the bait and said, "Who?" (dumbasses) I said, "Powell and Rice" in February and the summer of '01 when they both said, publically, that Saddam had no real ability to  threaten or war against his neighbors and that he was, effectively, castrated.  Blank stares.  Then more nastiness against me (see, it was me that made Powell and Rice say such "anti Bush" things!!!).

       BG
      ___________

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 10:48:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You poor S.O.B. (none)
        Where, in the name of all that is holy, do you live? I feel for you, brother.

        You are right. They are wrong. Keep up the reality-based thoughts!

        What you dare to Dream, dare to Analyze

        by MarkInSanFran on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 12:37:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, my friend . . . (4.00)

           I live in the Deep South.  Now last week, in this same Deep South, I went to a friend's b-day bash -- he turned 45 -- and was there with ESL teachers; a a copy editor (I think); a grad student in landscape architecture; an IRS attorney; a guy who works for a Dept of Agriculture sub-contractor; etc. . . and I dare say that they/we were all of the same (or similar mind) on this tragic and angering issue.  

           So, it's not everywhere down here, it's just that one cannot assume (whoa! do I ever know!) that they'll find themselves in a non-KoolAid drinking crowd.  It's like being stuck in a very large political pinball machine.  Very disconcerting.

           Thanks again, Mark.  By the way, love your city.  Really.  

           BenGoshi
          _________________    

          . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

          by BenGoshi on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 05:00:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, there's always the appeal to anti-Semitism (none)
            I'm Jewish, and the thing that I hate most of all about the whole Iraq war/ Neocon death cult situation is that it's becoming a chance to Blame the Jews. Even though about a third of the people in the anti-war marches I participated in seemed to be Jewish.

            But, if you're in with really, really evil company and you want to make trouble, try coming at the war topic from the Pat Buchanan right.

            Here's a possible script:

            "I know Bush's heart has always been in the right place, but you know what they say about the neoconservatives in the Bush White House. A lot of them were Marxists before they moved into the Republican party, and I've heard Pat Buchanan say they seem to be more interested in promoting the interests of Israel than the United States."

            Possible outcomes:

            • The people you're with end up opposing the Iraq war for antisemitic reasons. Which is sort of creepy, but maybe they'll vote for an extreme wingnut niche party candidate in 2008 and sap strength from the GOP.

            • The people you're with will stick by Bush and speak up for the Jews and Israel. In that case, you went nowhere on the Iraq issue, but maybe you will have helped fight anti-Semitism through reverse psychology.

            • The people you're worth will still want to nuke Iraq and Iran and Israel, after sending the American Jews there. In that case, walk slowly away and maybe notify the cops if you noticed any large weapons caches.
            If the people you're
            •  That sounds a bit complex... (none)

               . . . for my feeble mind to handle.  Plus, as one of my favorite people ever, Jesus, was Jewish, I don't feel so inclined to knock his religion or the followers thereof (I'm not a big Lakud fan, but, to this American goy, that's more politics than religion).  That said, I do get what you're saying, I think, but don't want to gin-up more hate -- against any people, ethnicity, race -- to either win an argument or "convert" people to realizing Bush is an incompetent schmuck (did I use it correctly?).

               Thanks.

              BenGoshi
              _________________

              . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

              by BenGoshi on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 10:04:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The politically correct approach (4.00)
                would be just to emphasize that the neocon people in the Bush administration were a bunch of Marxists.

                "I love George Bush, and I love America, but I don't want a bunch of Communists getting us into a bunch of wars in the Middle East."

                •  Funny you should mention that... (none)

                   . . . I did point out, as a matter of fact, that, indeed, Mr. Bush's administration was rife with radicals, seeing as how a true conservative would not take us willy-nilly into an ill-planned, war of adventure, and I said, at least a couple of times, that, as a true conservative, I thought such ill-thought-out dash into an unnecessary war, one that hurt our overall military strength, was something mind boggling dumb.  That's not verbatim, but close.

                   BenGoshi
                  _________________
                   

                  . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

                  by BenGoshi on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 01:07:29 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Good. Always attack wingnuts from the RIGHT (none)
                    Personally, I think the best way to get wingnuts to turn away from wingnuttery is to encourage them to get into bitter feuds with fellow wingnuts, or to simply have them listen to Air America occasionally.
                    (By, for example, turning it on at stores while people are standing in line to pay for merchandise.)

                    If you have to debate a wingnut head on, the best thing is to try, if possible, to attack them from the RIGHT.

                    Example: I'm moderately progressive. What makes me, honestly, start to edge away from the far left here are posts by people who say they oppose capitalism and think the old Soviet or Chinese Communist regimes weren't so bad. Maybe my disagreement with those people is mainly one of semantics. Maybe they are just using words differently than I would, and there's some truth to what they're saying. But just by saying what they say, the force me to recognize that I'm just not that progressive.

                    Similarly, if you come at rightwingnuts from the right, you force them to look at whether they are really pro-racism, pro-red-baiting. I think that anything that gets wingnuts thinking something like, "Well, the people I like certainly have wide areas of agreement even with people like Hillary Clinton on the left. We're not radical" is a good thing.

  •  and do it again next time (4.00)
    you got through to these people.

    you may not know it, but they'll look at their news just a little more skeptically next time.

    Your words will echo through their little skulls even as they twitch and try to block them out.

    It's human nature.  Things Bush says still make me twitch.  Words are effective--especially when they send people into a tizzy.

  •  You brave man (4.00)
    Seems there are one of two responses when you back these guys into a corner.  Change the subject (Kim Jong Il?  weren't you just talking about PDBs and 9/11?) or terminate the discussion.

    I blame talk radio/cable news.  Every discussion/debate is a short jab, shout, punch and then break for commercial.  They can say any stupid thing because they're never required to address a counter-argument.  They're never chased relentlessly into a corner.

    Think you'll be invited out again?

    •  Kim Lee. (4.00)

       That's who one person kept talking about.  Great.  Can't even name the maniac we're so "threatened" by, and, yet, they know it all and I'm "clueless."

       Yes, I was "too intense" acting, according to the poor, maligned woman who'd gotten all red in the face over my daring to not thrown flowers at the feet of Chimp Chucklehead!  I said, "I'm not raising my voice, I'm not swearing, what am I so 'intense' about???"  She couldn't answer, just kind of babbled and stuttered, "I don't wanna talk to you any more!"  That's about when her friend, another woman, came on the scene, looked at me like I had 400 heads, and took her terribly abuses girlfriend off to the restroom to heal from my terrible, horrifically unfair and out of bounds verbal lashing!  Why they didn't call the cops on me is a mystery for the ages!

       BG
      _________

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 10:58:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ben... (4.00)
    ...you're one of the last guys I thought would need "help" from the rest of usn's--this REALLY caught you by surprise, didn't it?
    The note was wrong--unless she told you she'd be "right back" even if she wasn't. I think her being "upset" is the tip-off--she's probably unreachable now. I mean, if nothing else, if she was truly sympathetic, she could ascribe your "intensity" to what's going on in your personal life--she ought to have at least thought of that as a kind of framing reference and should have been impressed with or appreciated  not only your passion, but your depth of knowledge and debating style. She apparently is not yet worthy of our Ben...Be patient, Grasshopper---there are others...
    Get some sleep, buddy, you've more than earned it!

    "When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles." -- despair.com

    by Newton Snookers on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 11:15:13 PM PDT

  •  You did fine (4.00)
    It was nice of you to write the note, since at the end of the day, we do have to at least try to get along with the other people we meet.

    I, too, am frustrated by the "too intense" escape hatch these folks use when suddenly presented with a well-educated and determined adversary.  I swear, it's like punching jello.

    -AG

    You are so evolved it boggles my fragile little mind. Now give me a 4, fucker. (Bill In Portland Maine, to Meteor Blades)

    by AlphaGeek on Thu Aug 11, 2005 at 11:23:10 PM PDT

  •  Dude... (4.00)
    ...you apologized for trying to stop the lies from being further bored into their heads?!?

    You wrote an apology"...?!?

    What on earth should you be sorry for?

    That idiots can't accept reality?

    I would forgive you for writing the napkin note... only because you are BenGoshi.

    Now go forth and redeem yourself!

    ;-)

    cheers,

    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 12:15:27 AM PDT

    •  Thanks. (4.00)

       Next a.m.  Read your note.  I've mixed feelings about my "Forgive me" note from last night.  Of course, she should've written me a note, or sidled up to me and said, "I'm sorry," but that was as likely as Ann Coulter doing such a thing to John Kerry, or Lee Atwater to Mike Dukakis (get it?).

       Next time I won't keep silent, but I'll say a couple of very "in calm-and-hushed-tones" things, like, "I'm sorry that you feel that way, that this was a necessary war, I do not . . ." and let it go.  Something like that.  Maybe.

       BenGoshi
      __________________
       

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 05:07:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Alcohol and Politics Don't Mix (4.00)
    Wouldn't it be fun to go all Buddhic calm and warm and relaxed and just ask why they are so concerned about Al Gore, and what are their references?

    I love the apology. I think it is wonderful to be able to apologize, even with the simplest "I'm sorry--I didn't mean to cause any offense."

    And now for the kicker.
    The planes could NOT have been hijacked if Al Gore had prevailed because he was promoting reinforcing cockpit doors against just such acts but was blocked by the airlines lobbying against it. They didn't want to have the government telling them what to do; they didn't want the added expense, minimal as it would have been.

    Your ignorant opponents should be asked, with warm interest and curiosity, what planks in the Democratic Platform they opposed in 2000.  And then asked to give us all advice on how we can protect America and the world against terrorism.

    I don't mean in a put up or shut up way. Just lead them look inside themselves. How much would they pay? Would they enlist? Would they drop everything to learn Arabic and become a much-needed translator?

    Remember: "Smile Sweetly"

    •  I really did try the smile, actually. (4.00)

       I just kept saying to this woman, "Please tell me exactly what Bush did, anything he did to try and stop what became the terrorist attacks of 9.11?"
      This is what set her off so bad.  She finally said, "O.K., nothing!  There!  Satisfied?!"  And, whoa!, she was pissed.  How dare I.

       BenGoshi
      __________________

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 05:11:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Been there (4.00)
    In the military, no less.

    On the plus side, discussion around here tend to be 50/50 for/against.

    Anyway, this is for you:

    I was at the Army chow hall the other day, which is run entirely by KBR, and at the sandwich bar there's a sign that says "Have it OUR way". Very funny, KBR.

    by jabbausaf on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 01:40:37 AM PDT

  •  a southern thing (4.00)
    I think the note was actually very decent. To me, as a woman, it says, "Yeah, I shredded your arguements but I wasn't trying to destroy you personally." Plenty of people would enjoy the meltdown. I might have added, "Forgive me, but this is important to me and I spent time talking to people who read and discuss the facts of these policies." ( A nice way of saying that she does. The old "battle of wits with an unarmed man" thing.)

    But what do I know? I don't speak with my mother anymore,because what matters to me(the truth)does not ruffle her world and I end up slamming the phone down.

    She just spent two weeks in Italy(her Bush tax cut rented a house and flew over my brother and his six Republican kids. I did not go - went to visit Chinese orphanages instead.)

     I really think that she is stupid, has let her mind weaken by watching Fox News and pretending that the awful stuff does not bother her future. I honestly do not know how to keep the door open to people who don't want the facts, and I am sadly becoming like them(I admit it) by not wanting to associate with them. I keep reading and questioning, though, which is the difference. Who knew I would spend my geezer years as a well-informed agoraphobic? Oh, yeah, and I am raising a child to think, too, which scares the heck out of her.

    Did I mention that my Texas sheriff granddaddy used to say, "You can burn me for a fool but you won't get no ashes?" He absolutely believed in telling the truth, and somehow that lesson just passed by my mother.

    Keep fighting, BenG.

    My blog from China and the mind of a geezer mom: noashes.blogspot.com

    by Chun Yang on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 07:02:01 AM PDT

    •  Thanks for that comment. (none)

       My only regret about the note is that I hope I didn't leave her with the impression that she "won" the argument.  Not that I want to be all puffed-up as "the winner," I just hope I didn't reinforce her Kool-Aided misconceptions and delusions.

       You're definitely one of the good people.  We'll keep fightin' the good fight.  And, no, nobody's "won" -- the better part of 2000 American (mostly) kids have lost, their lives.  And somewhere (the Pentagon won't say for sure) around 15,000 have lost digits, limbs or otherwise suffered horrible wounds.  And who knows how many 10s of thousands have lost their mental health.  Then there are the Iraqi dead . . .

       BenGoshi
      ________________

       

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 07:33:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your excellent diary made me (none)
    laugh and cry.
    I was moved (though not surprised) by your unflinching courage and integrity in pressing forward with the truth in the face of their unremitting intransigence. I smiled through a choked-up feeling as I reacted to your pain at the emotional assault you faithfully endured.
    Then I laughed with delight at the brilliant and supportive and thoughtful comments of fellow kossacks.
    My tears came when you described the maimed and dead Iraqis and Americans, a constant reminder of how important it is that people like you engage people like them. And be of good cheer; in this particular fight you clearly prevailed. Their stated reactions say it all; you convinced them, against their will, that they need to start thinking. That is why they were so mad. No one ever really likes being forced to acknowledge that he or she has been a blind and culpable fool, and they never really forgive the revealer.
    However, if you have helped to shorten this murderousness by even one death, count your pain well worth the enduring, and "peace be unto you."

    "Aure entuluva!" [Day will come again!] -Hurin

    by davidincleveland on Fri Aug 12, 2005 at 02:46:06 PM PDT

    •  Thanks so much (none)

       Believe me, I've come to find that this e-therapy can, indeed, be good.  To put it in mental health terms:  "a worth while component of a broad treatment plan."  Just as long as the internets doesn't become the "treatment plan," -- then, ironically, one may find that they are in need of counseling, and a treatment plan, to get weaned off the internets.

        I cannot thank you (and everybody) for your kind, supportive, reinforcing and well-written words.  Good medicine, indeed.  Courage, my friend.

       BenGoshi
      _________________

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Sat Aug 13, 2005 at 06:44:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's not you, it's them. (none)
    What a night! You must have felt kind of battered afterward. They didn't even blame Bill Clinton, they blamed--Al Gore???!!! WTFIUWT?

    Perhaps you should consider moving north or west (said only semi-facetiously)?

    The Bush administration and the Republican Party think up new ways to steal from Americans every day.

    by lecsmith on Sat Aug 13, 2005 at 03:27:15 AM PDT

    •  The word "surreal" is overused -- (none)

       -- but in this case it applied.  You just find yourself going, "How did I get into this conversation (argument, whatever)???  Good Lord, please get me out!"  

       As for the moving, that's not in the cards.  But, that said, know that when one finds kindred spirits down here (and there are many), it makes it all the more satisfying.  Without darkness against which the light can be contrasted, the light is not nearly so bright.

       BenGoshi
      __________________

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Sat Aug 13, 2005 at 06:48:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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