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Not One More
Day 21
The Peaceful Occupation of Crawford

A photographer friend of mine went down to Crawford to the Pro-War, Anti-Peace rally today. There were about 1500 people there he said. He also said that it was the most "third reich" spectacle that he had ever seen in America.

My friend said that the speakers were whipping up the crowd into a frenzy of hatred for me (like they already didn't hate me?) and for the peace movement. My friend said that the entire theme of the rally was: "Cindy is killing American troops by her anti-American protest." Oh really, isn't George Bush killing innocent Americans and Iraqis by sending them to fight in an illegal and immoral war for power and greed? I think the real culprit is my neighbor: George.

I am really sad that there are still people in America who think that someone exercising her freedom of speech is anti-American. People who say we DON'T have the right to dissent are un-patriotic and un-American. My friend said that the rally was really the scariest thing he had ever seen. Except for one funny part when some people were walking through the crowd with a "Say No to War---except when a Democrat is President" (whatever that means???) sign. I guess the people at the rally only read the "Say No to War" part and they were ripping up the signs and chasing the gentlemen out. The unfortunate sign holders were trying to tell the counter-protesters that they were on Bush's killing side, but the crowd wouldn't hear them.

Our rally had about 2500 people jammed into the Camp Casey II tent. The speakers and music were awesome. Joan sang a few more songs. I told the crowd that I totally understand George Bush's noble cause for continuing the war: I have to kill more Americans because I have already killed so many. Then I posed the question to them that we will pose to Congress and the small minority of Americans (38-40%) who still believe in George's oil war. How many more lives are you willing to sacrifice before you bring the troops home? I led the crowd in a deafening chant of "Not One More," aimed at George's vacation home.

I kind of feel sorry for George; holed up in his ranch. Not being able to go out unless he flies over in his helicopter. If he drove out of the ranch, he would have to see people who disagree with him. But every time he leaves the ranch now, he faces people demanding answers to the question: What Noble Cause?

George is going golfing in Arizona on Monday, then to San Diego on Monday afternoon and Tuesday. Be sure we will have people in those locations bird dogging him. He deserves to be made uncomfortable: he is making the entire world more than uncomfortable.

We are relaxing a little bit tonight after the rally. A very nice young man who was wounded and put in a wheel chair by Bush's war on the same day Casey was killed came out tonight. He is spending his honeymoon with his new bride here at Camp Casey. Which reminds me...we are having 2 weddings here tomorrow: One at Camp Casey I and one at Camp Casey II. We have had so many children and babies come out too...it is the cycle of life.

I was visited by a 2nd Lt. from Casey's 2-5 Cavalry that told me to keep up the good work and Casey's old roommate came out from Ft. Hood to meet me. He may have to go back to Iraq soon. He hopes he doesn't have to since he will be out in 6 months, but he is pretty sure he will be stop-lossed.

It was so hot today in Crawford. So hot, it seemed like there wasn't enough air to breathe. Then a storm came and gave us some blessed relief.

Update: Some pro-war people came up to Camp Casey II around 10pm and Ann Wright had to call the sheriff because they were getting a little rowdy.

Originally posted to CindySheehan on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 05:48 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Mother to Mother (4.00)
    Thank you!  Words seem so inadequate compared to your sacrifices.  You and the others that have joined you have exposed the fortunate son to the world.  Bless you.

    Some folks are born made to wave the flag
    Ooh, they're red, white, and blue
    And when the band plays "Hail to the Chief"
    They point the cannon right at you

    It ain't me, it ain't me
    I ain't no senator's son
    It ain't me, it ain't me
    I ain't no fortunate one

    Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
    Lord, dont they help themselves
    But when the tax man comes to the door,
    Lord the house looks like a rummage sale

    It ain't me, it ain't me
    I ain't no millionaire's son
    It ain't me, it ain't me
    I ain't no fortunate one

    Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
    Ooh, they send you down to war
    And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
    They only answer "More! More! More!"

    It ain't me, it ain't me
    I ain't no military son
    It ain't me, it ain't me
    I ain't no fortunate one

    It ain't me, it ain't me
    I ain't no fortunate one

    •  Wow, that song fits so perfectly. (none)
      Amazing, after all these years, that song applies perfectly to our current situation.
      •  THere are a lot of fitting songs (4.00)
        Chicago's "Better End Soon"

        Can't stand it no more
        The people dying
        Crying for help for so many years
        But nobody hears
        Better end soon my friend
        It better end soon my friend

        Can't take it no more
        The people hating
        Hurting their brothers
        They don't understand
        They can't understand
        Better end soon my friend
        It better end soon

        Hey, everybody
        Won't you just look around
        Can't anybody see?
        Just what's going down
        Can't you take the time?
        Just to feel
        Just to feel what is real
        If you do
        Then you'll see that we got a raw deal
        They're killing everybody
        I wish it weren't true
        They say we got to make war
        Or the economy will fall
        But if we don't stop
        We won't be around no more
        They're ruining this world
        For you and me
        The big heads of state
        Won't let us be free
        They made the rules once
        But it didn't work out
        Now we must try again
        Before they kill us off
        No more dying!
        No more killing
        No more dying
        No more fighting
        We don't want to die
        No, we don't want to die
        Please let's change it all
        Please let's make it all
        Good for the present
        And better for the future
        Let's just love one another
        Let's show peace for each other
        We can make it happen
        Let's just make it happen
        We can change this world
        Please let's change this world
        Please let's make it happen for our children
        For our women
        Change the world
        Please make it happen
        Come on
        Come on
        Please
        Come on
        It's up to me
        It's up to you
        So let's do it now
        Yeah
        Do it now

        Can't stand it no more
        The people cheating
        Burning each other
        They know it ain't right
        How can it be right
        Better end soon my friend
        It better end soon my friend

        1970

        "If you're not complaining, you're not paying attention."--My grandfather

        by JackAshe on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:33:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I love that song. (none)
      Although I'm nobody's "son," it's my anthem! I say that all the time, too: "Hey, I ain't no Senator's son!"
      •  credit the author- John Fogerty (none)
        Not everyone is old enough to remember that song playing on the radio.  Of course today the Bushites would ban it, Clear Channel and the other Bush suck-up buddies wouldn't dare play any protest songs!

        Wake up America- Bush has stolen your country, get it back by impeaching Bush and Cheney NOW!

        •  Whenever quoting (4.00)
          ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS credit the author and also provide the title of the work if at all possible.

          I don't like it when I see people forward an article on e-mail without any citation -- no title, no publication, no author, no date.

    •  Couldn't resist: (none)
      War Pigs

      Generals gathered in their masses
      Just like witches at black masses
      Evil minds that plot destruction
      Sorcerers of deaths construction
      In the fields the bodies burning
      As the war machine keeps turning
      Death and hatred to mankind
      Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

      Politicians hide themselves away
      They only started the war
      Why should they go out to fight
      They leave that role to the poor-yeah

      Time will tell on their power minds
      Making war just for fun
      Treating people just like pawns in chess
      Wait 'til their judgement day comes, yeah!

      Now in darkness world stops turning
      As the war machine keeps burning
      No more war pigs of the power
      Hand of God has struck the hour
      Day of judgement God is calling
      On their knees the war pigs crawling
      Begging mercy for their sins
      Satan laughing spreads his wings
      All right now!

      Amazing how much of it fits, although I would give the Generals a pass as the witches....This song reminds me of Dick Cheney everytime I hear it or sing it.

      If I had a nickel for everytime Bush mentioned "9/11" I could raise enough reward money to go after Binladen-Jon Stewart

      by Blakbelt on Mon Aug 29, 2005 at 12:02:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Nice Call.... Pro-War. Because they are! (4.00)
    By keeping the message on point, What Noble Cause, the so-called "counter protesters" are by definition pro-war. Its an important question you are asking Cindy. One that deserves an honest and consistent answer. How could ANYONE be against that?

    What Noble Cause?

    Everyone in America should alreadly be able to answer that question, and 40% are not even willing to ask it... Keep it on point, on message. The pro-war lobby will not even ask it.. the media really is not asking this...

    Media coverage of your protest focuses on the secondary issues.. Immediate withdrawl, etc. But the never quiz the pro-war protester on "why are you will willing to fight a war without knowing why? Why are you so pro-war as to want to kill women and children without reason?"

    What Noble Cause. Important question that demands an honest and consistent answer. Love ya, Cindy, you are a wonderful woman and an inspiration for the World. God Bless and keep you safe!

    Ask Three Poeple a Day: What Noble Cause?

    by Random Excess on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 05:55:35 AM PDT

    •  Yes, and we shouldn't let America forget it (4.00)
      Not only are they pro-war, in my opinion, they support Fascism, and demonstrate their support of fascism by their actions.  Having read about yesterday, and the descriptions of the pro-war side, my heart is heavy today, as more and more the far right of this country take on the fascists nature that is a threat and danger to our freedom and our nation.

      God bless Cindy for waking our country up and bringing out the pro-war side for Americans to see in action.

      "September 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country." Judge Gerald Tjoflat

      by SanJoseLady on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 07:40:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it is HATE, SanJoseLady... (4.00)
        They radiate hatred!  It unifies them, it gives their lives purpose - hate!  Not patriotism  - patriotism is only the rationale, the window dressing. Beneath is the hate and intolerance.

        They have absorbed the anger and hatred of Limbaugh and Hannity and all the other proto-fascist hatemongers, who have worked tirelessly for years, carefully preparing the ground for this day when hatred and it's sister Fear will rule America.

        The Freepers have soaked it all in. Add to it all the not-too-well masked hatreds of Bush and, especially, Rove, and give your "true believers" permission, a raison d'etre to hate all those who disagree with them, and you create and encourage this deadly bellicose raging beast. Hate has permeated his soul.  

        One only need look into their faces.  It's palpable.  One can feel, almost touch it, even from a distance. It is in their eyes always.  

        It is the hatred of Kristalnacht, of the Gestapo at the door, of the "showers" of the death camps, the hatreds of Kosovo, of preachers who give lip service to  "Christianity" and who counsel assassination,  the hatred of countless burnings at countless stakes, of witch hunts, of beheadings, of all  the thousands of lynchings in America and of the dragging death of that poor retarded black man down in East Texas only a few years ago.  

        Hate is a coward who pretends to himself that he is a hero.  Hate is a bully. Hate drives men to torture other men, it prefers the weak and the helpless, the bound and the chained.

        Hate was in Crawford yesterday, and it's there today, a poison that permanently kills that which is humane, leaving only raw evil - intolerence, indifference, bigotry, a willingness to do all manner of cruel and heartless things to their fellows, and without a twinge of conscience.

        It'll be there even after George Bush, the Hatemonger-in-Chief, goes back to Washington. He will take his hate with him, and it will require a really big airplane to carry it all.  There will be plenty left over in central Texas, though, for there's an inexhaustible supply of it everywhere in America.  

        Hatred is the lifeblood of the Republican Party.

    •  MADD on steroids (4.00)
      Cindy, thanks to you we have Mothers Against Drunk Driving of Our Nation.

      Bush is at the wheel and he is out of control.  And our kids are getting killed.

      Thanks for sending the message day after day.  The poor guy is kinda slow, plus he's so busy hiding from you. So it may take him a while to get it.

      •  Sorry, George (4.00)
        Didn't mean to bring up that drunk-driving charge on your record, just when everyone has forgotten about it.
      •  Finito! (4.00)
        Really!  I think Cindy may have stuck the fork into Bush's fake presidency.

        And, as evidence, just look at the media.  The powers-that-be are abandoning this turkey, and preparing us to accept an interregnum regent until they can install another "clown prince."

        If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State...

        by HenryDavid on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 11:00:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you (4.00)
    Keep it going. Keep the message simple, direct and stright from the heart. It is reaching Americans, they are hearing you. It's all about the message.

    One idea, both for the bus tours adn for the blogs. Post Bush's daily schedule and highlight items like: PLAYING GOLF

    Bless you, keep the faith.

    We need a good left hook. We need Howard Dean.

    by philinmaine on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 05:58:13 AM PDT

    •  Bush's Life (4.00)
      (and he's getting on with it!):

      To , Dew Do

      Play Golf
      Have Meetings/Plan War
      Ride His Mountain Bike
      Memorize Soundbites
      Fall Off His Mountain Bike
      Plan War/Sign Plan
      Walk on His Treadmill
      Give Speeches on War
      Work Out in the Weightroom
      Have Meetings/Plan Base Closings and VA Hospitals
      Skip Rope
      Meet Grieving Parents
      Go on Vacation
      Avoid Grieving Parents
      Go Fishing
      Close Bases and VA Hospitals
      Play Golf

      I know how men in exile feed on dreams. - Aeschylus

      by Patricia Taylor on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:42:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They fight due to hate (4.00)
    And we want peace out of love...

    Your description of their rally made that so clear for me - thank you for everything you are doing, and for taking the time to blog.

    Best wishes to the honeymooners, and brides & grooms!

  •  I have been so conflicted this weekend (4.00)
    with wanting to be there with you and being a good mother.

    Last time we came my son, Adam, who is very fair was sick for several days from the heat and all.  I decided we shouldn't come down this weekend but I feel like I have ADD and cannot focus on anything.

    I know Crawford is where I should be.

    The Christian Right is neither Witness Every Day

    by TXsharon on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 05:58:38 AM PDT

    •  TXSharon, you've been there, (none)
      and you need to take care of your family. Don't feel bad.

      if it's any consolation, I feel the ADD syndrome too, but let's look at it this way:

      If we're thrown off by this, how much MORESO is Bush and Rove? (We can only hope TONS!)

      You've been a regular supporter of this cause, and thanks for the updates you have provided along the way.

      BTW, I did make it there, last weekend, from Tennessee, and am really really glad I went!

      "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed." MLK

      by Moesse on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 09:14:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  adsf (none)
    "What Noble Cause?" trumps "Freedom Isn't Free!"

    Avoiding Theocracy at Home and Neo Cons Abroad

    by UniC on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:01:18 AM PDT

    •  freedom isn't free (4.00)
      Its funny that they say that, yet are unwilling to sacrifice anything themselves.

      It brings to mind that article that someone posted [Armando, maybe?] a couple of weeks ago about the well-to-do woman who said to the recruiter that "our kind" of people don't serve [or something very similar, but she did use the words 'our kind']. What has she given, other than excuses?

      "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." -Vezzini, The Princess Bride

      by PanzerMensch on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:13:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Part of the problem is ... (4.00)
        ... that no part of the Republican agenda is asking anyone to sacrifice anything - eventually whatever they are going to sacrifice is going to be taken not given.
        I remember the "Our Kind" post, it left a mark on me too along with College Repubs saying they have a career to think about.

        Avoiding Theocracy at Home and Neo Cons Abroad

        by UniC on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:28:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It is odd they say that... (4.00)
        ...since they don't want us to see the human cost of war--the draped coffins, the wounded.
        •  the names on Nightline (4.00)
          As they like to tell us amid their absurd defenses of Fox News, nobody's forcing you to watch. Well, nobody's forcing you to watch Nightline putting a face to the name of someone's son or daughter who died for a war that's about to have the most unintended of consequences. I think that's the biggest thing right now, and it is driving many conservative pundits away [those who aren't on the payroll, if you know what I mean]; American soldiers are dying for a war that will see the installation of a government that bases its Constitution on the Law of Islam above all other laws. Not the democracy we were all told they would be getting. Will the Iraqis be better off than they were under Saddam?

          And how do neo-cons reconcile boycotting those Nightline broadcasts with 'Support The Troops'? Yellow magnet ribbons are nice and all, but the troops can't see them from the front lines.

          "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." -Vezzini, The Princess Bride

          by PanzerMensch on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:40:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  They are now! (none)
          US President George W Bush has called on Americans to be patient with the situation in Iraq and warned that there will be further sacrifice ahead.

          "Our efforts in Iraq and the broader Middle East will require more time, more sacrifice and continued resolve," he said in his weekly radio address.

          according to the BBC.

          Got so pissed when I read that, I fired off yet another LTE, wondering why bush won't sacrifice a vacation!

          "I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in." George Mc Govern.

          by Street Kid on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 03:11:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  and another thing (4.00)
        why is it that so many of the "freedom isn't free" folks seem to get so irate about other Americans exercising their free speech rights?
  •  Their (4.00)
    pundits are paid to support this war. They are on television all the time, doing just that.
      Makes you wonder, if they are doing the same thing with their party faithful?
      Perhaps, "payolla patriotism?"
  •  Ah, anti-Americanism (4.00)
    You know, a wiser man than I once remarked that the whole notion of "anti-American" or "Americanism" is very totalitarian in nature - the ability to encourage obedience and deferrence to the state in the name of some vague, abstract idea like "Americanism."  Which in this case, means support for the rulers.

    The Soviet Union had similar methods; to be "anti-Soviet" was a terrible thing.  Same thing in Germany, same thing in Brazil under the neo-Nazi generals.

    Anyway, take care and our best to all who are there.  

    "While there is a lower class, I am in it. While there is a criminal element, I am of it. While there is a soul in prison, I am not free." - Eugene Debs

    by matthewc on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:03:55 AM PDT

    •  Probably the same point: (4.00)
      A wiser person than me once said, "A free country believes the people make the country great.  A totalitarian country believes the country makes the people great."

      "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

      by LithiumCola on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:59:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  One refreshing statistic in this regard... (4.00)
      according to a few polls I've seen, close to 87% of Americans think dissent against the war is a-okay.  Specifically, the AP-Ipsos poll asks:

      Do you think it is OK for people who oppose the war in Iraq to express their opposition publicly, or not?

      87% agree that it is.

      Only 12% answered that question with No, it is not. I guess that slim minority includes some of the pro-war folks at Crawford who are trying to yell down Cindy. Shame on them.

  •  The Mentality of the Bush Mob (4.00)
    one funny part when some people were walking through the crowd with a "Say No to War---except when a Democrat is President" (whatever that means???) sign. I guess the people at the rally only read the "Say No to War" part and they were ripping up the signs and chasing the gentlemen out. The unfortunate sign holders were trying to tell the counter-protesters that they were on Bush's killing side, but the crowd wouldn't hear them.

    This is funny.  I think the signs were a weak jab at supposed Dem Hypocricy, but were waaay too cerebral for this crowd.  That totally sums up the mentality of the Bush Mob - "Keep It Simple, [we're] Stoopid".

    If the Bush mob can't elevate the discourse about the war amongst themselves, it's obvious that anyone on the left trying to engage them would have better luck conversing with a brick wall.

    DailyKos: Keeping Tabs on the Democracy.

    by winstnsmth on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:14:27 AM PDT

    •  adsf (none)
      Hey, if you can't say it in a couple of syllables...

      Actually, they probably got their signs torn up for the very notion of a Democrat as President.

      "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." -Vezzini, The Princess Bride

      by PanzerMensch on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:21:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's what this report about mistaken.... (4.00)
      "In one heated moment, members of the pro-Bush crowd turned on what they mistakenly thought were a group of anti-war protesters, cursing them, threatening them and tearing down their signs. A police officer rushed the group to safety."
      From here
       Bush warns of more sacrifice in Iraq
    •  Hilarious (4.00)
      That is just incrediblely funny. They're so blinded by hate that they can't see their own propaganda.

      Why do these people think they are noble by preaching hate? I'm not a peacenik "war is never the answer" kind of guy but come on. Why would you protest Peace? Even if we were fighting for our very lives in horrible war against alien invaders, I'd still respect the "can't we all just get along" crowd. Kind of like the pity one feels for all the hippies on the roof of the building in "Independence Day." But these jokers are just scared bigots who cannot believe someone may be doing something independent of group-think.

      In any event, I'm trying to have a conversation about this with a Republican friend of mine. It's troubling the way he thinks and I've been posting diaries about it here.
    •  Cult of personality (4.00)
      And yet these people claim to despise North Korea's political system?

      What I think is going on: these people have a set of mind-numbing mantras "stay the course" "fight them over there" "Cindy hates the troops."  They were given these mantras to repeat precisely because they are meaningless, short, and quelch any sort of thinking or analysis.  To deviate from those basic mantras, even though still supportive of the Bushist cause, disrupts the mind-numbing quality of these rallies.

      Jim Jones would be proud.

      I don't think our troops should be used for what's called nation building. - George W. Bush, 2000

      by GN1927 on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 07:44:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Keep up the good work Cindy and (none)
    all you others that are there at Camp Casey.  We're all rooting for you.

    God bless.

  •  Great work Cindy (4.00)
    The other side cannot answer you or defend Bush factually, so they answer only with direct attacks on you, your supporters and others who disagree.  

    They can't say, "I support this war because..." and finish that sentence with any logical explanation.  So instead they wrap themselves in US flags and hold signs of President Bush and offer vague notions of patriotism.  As if all who oppose them are anti-Americans.  And that is no mistake; it is exactly what they want people to think.  

    The 'opposition' portrayed by the pro-war crowd, much as with most Conservatives these days, is a straw man.  It is completely made up because they cannot answer their real opposition.

    We're with you, Cindy.

    If you like this comment, please visit It Affects You

    by up2date on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:18:22 AM PDT

  •  Another simple question... (4.00)
    ... for the "Cindy doesn't speak for me," mob.

    When did Cindy ever say she was speaking for everyone?

    The mob, on the other hand, wants to speak for all. Or, more accurately, to silence us.

    We won't let them.

    Carry on Cindy - see you in D.C.

    I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

    by sidinny on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:20:01 AM PDT

    •  speaking for others (4.00)
      The Right, I've noticed, has this thing wherein they allow others to speak for them. A Rightie at MMFA freely admitted that he allows not just Bush, but Limbaugh, Hannity, et al, to speak for him, thus lacking any willingness for independant thought. Whereas most of us on The Left speak for ourselves, think for ourselves, and generally do not allow others, whether its Moore, Franken, or Schultz, to speak for us.

      "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." -Vezzini, The Princess Bride

      by PanzerMensch on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:28:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's nice to have a voice sometimes (3.75)
        but I agree with the ideals of the Left being free-thinking. This is why I was slightly offended by the "Dean Speaks For Me" meme that has been going around. I agree with Dean and I am a progressive, but I didn't like the sentiment of anyone speaking for me. I can do that for myself, thank you very much.
      •  Speaking is Hard. (none)
        You have to concisely put words together so that they come out of your mouth in a coherent way.

        Speech Cowards. Afraid to pipe up. Adopt a Cliche.
        Check with other cowards to find out the latest slogan.

        They want to kill? Where's the recruiter?

        A society of sheep must beget in time a government of wolves. Bertrand de Jouvenel

        by Little Red Hen on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 08:12:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Weird (none)
        It's real weird. I was just talking to my roomie Rev Dee about this very thing. As I was reading this thread, I thought, it all boils down to this:

        Do you think for yourself, or not?

        Those who think for themselves are liberal, tolerant, open minded, generally Democratic or Independent. Those who do not are told what to think, thus you see Rethugs, Reichwingers, hatemongers, Sheeple.

        You put it very well, PanzerMench. Not much more to add than that. It's simple...really. Yup.

        ~Independent Thinking is dangerous to those who can't think without a script.~

        Choo Choo Q.

        "Those that set in motion the forces of evil cannot always control them afterwards." ~~ Charles W. Chesnutt

        by Quotefiend on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 12:43:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That really bugs me too... (4.00)
      But I think the aim of these sorts of slogans is to plant the idea that Cindy speaks for you in people's heads. It doesn't have to make sense or even have anything to do with something Cindy actually said. It just has to scream something that gets people worked up.

      I thought it was just stupid, at first, but really it's a sly tactic to get folks more pissed off. How dare some woman I don't know speak for me?

      Well, that's what their propaganda is intended to do, and it seems to be pretty effective on sheeple who don't read or think for themselves.

      "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it."-- G.W. Bush, April 15, 2005

      by flashlass on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 10:09:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The other tactic... (4.00)
        ... which they are generally very effective at, is to shift the focus from the real issue(s) to Cindy.

        They're trying to make this about her, not about Bush or the war.

        I have to add - I love that Cindy is playing the framing game in her own right by consistently referring to them as the "pro-war" crowd.

        Something for us all to keep in mind, especially in dealing with these wonderful "culture of life" folks and "values voters."

        I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

        by sidinny on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 10:22:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, the framing thing (4.00)
          Is brilliant. One day I was talking with a friend and when the subject of abortion issues came up, and I used the reference, "Pro-lifer." He said, "don't use that phrase, it's one they labelled themselves so that the only alternative is to be "anti-life" which makes you sound out-and-out evil.

          I hadn't really thought about it in detail before, but that's probably the wingnuts most successful strategy - to name things in a way that to oppose them would be completely insane or cruel.

          Good point, and I'm likewise glad to see Cindy is able to turn their own sneaky strategy against them.

          "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it."-- G.W. Bush, April 15, 2005

          by flashlass on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 12:45:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Interesting about the sign... (4.00)
    "Say No to War---except when a Democrat is President"

    One of our stupid Dallas Morning News staffers made an ignorant comment like that, suggesting that there weren't any anti-war protests during Clinton's adminsitration. Bullshit! There sure were, but I was less active at that time 'cause my DEMOCRATIC congressman voted for MY anti-war interests every time--against the President--and I felt like my voice was being heard!

    What part of "anti-war" do these people not understand? War only leads to more of the same, and it's time the U.S. took the lead in breaking the cycle of violence, at home and overseas.

    Of course, I'm not saying we don't need the military, we should just be careful how we use them.

    •  Besides.... (none)
      if memory serves, Johnson was heckled by the anti-war activists from 1965-1968. And he 1968, he was basically stopped from running again because of the anti-war sentiment. Johnson was a Democrat, was he not?

      Exacerbating the situation was the presidential election of that year, in which Johnson faced a strong challenge from peace candidates Eugene McCarthy, Robert Kennedy, and George McGovern, all Democrats, as well as his eventual successor, Richard M. Nixon. On 25 March Johnson learned that his closest advisors now opposed the war; six days later, he withdrew from the race.

      Not only are these people arrogant, their are just factually inaccurate. Get them a history book.

      Here's a place they could start:
      http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/vietnam/antiwar.html

  •  Pictures of pro-war rally? (4.00)
    I saw a few of the signs on a CNN report last night after I got back from Crawford, and Cindy's story only confirms what I heard elsewhere.  I think a photo-journal of this rally would be very powerful (in our favor) and educational, showing the lazy unthinking pro-Bush American crowd what kind of wingnuts are speaking for them.

    Does anyone know of a good set of images compiled of the pro-war protest?  I wouldn't have taken my kids to that one, for safety's sake, but I'm sure the education would've been very valuable for them, to see hate up close like that.

    •  Not very Christian signs.. (4.00)
      at least the ones I saw and have read about.  If we assume that a majority of Bush-backers also describe themselves as Christian, then what kind of a message are they sending?

      The truth always matters.

      by texasmom on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 12:02:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Now is the time (4.00)
    Cindy. Discussing the war while the war rages on is very important. If we wait until the hostilities cease and attempt to discuss the reasons for and the cost of war, we will be told its old news and that the time to discuss war is during the war. This is an established pattern. When we protested prior to the war, we were told there is no war to protest. Protesting during the war is labeled unpatriotic. The pro war factions never want to be confronted with their destructive and hate filled ideology. I am a 55 year old Army vet who appreciates hearing you speak the truth. Thank you.
  •  Weddings? Honeymoons? (none)
    This is incredible.  

    I've read many stories about people who were just simply compelled to go to Crawford and to witness the history you're creating.

    I'm moved beyond words.


    Have you ever heard the sound of a mother screaming for her son?...Carley Sheehan

    by nupstateny on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:32:54 AM PDT

    •  that's significant (4.00)
      that people are going there to be married and have their honeymoons.  It shows that the Cindy protest phenomenon is based on love, not hate.

      We have to keep it this way.  This is how we will win.

      *Springsteen for President*

      by hrh on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:39:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pro war philosophy in a nutshell (none)
    In a twist on the poem "The Charge of the Light Brigade" the following lines came to me:

    "Ours is not to reason why
    Yours is but to do or die"

    Don't forget, ePluribus Media isn't them, it's US. That means you too.

    by Bionic on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:40:23 AM PDT

    •  Ah (none)
      I think it's 'theirs', actually, as in 'theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die', which is grammatically odd but that's the original. Sorry about the pedantism, but the meaning does change...slightly.
      •  Which is why it is a twist (4.00)
        They don't question and they (yellow elephant brigade at least) also don't serve.

        They also don't want Cindy and the rest of us to question the great leader.  Just keep serving and dying. Quietly.

        So yes, a different meaning, but more apropos, doncha think?

        Don't forget, ePluribus Media isn't them, it's US. That means you too.

        by Bionic on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 07:34:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  "I am your equal" (4.00)
    Cindy, I know what it is about what you're doing that's so gutsy, and why these thugs and goons hate you so much.  I see it in the way you call the president "George."

    You are having the temerity to say what Bush can't stand to hear from anyone -- "I am your equal."

    He sees himself as modern royalty, as entitled to expend the lives of some and the tax dollars of all the rest to further his personal interests.

    You are grabbing him by the tie, dragging him nose-to-nose and saying, "It ain't so, buster.  You aren't any better than me, you aren't any more entitled, your s*&t stinks just the same as mine, God doesn't love you more than he loves me, and you have to answer for your actions, same as me and anyone else.  In fact, you are my employee, and one who took on a sacred trust.  That demands more accountability than most."

    Of course he will not see reason on this.  The man is not intellectually, emotionally or morally capable of that.  I actually don't think other people are real to him at all.  But everyone else is seeing you doing it, and I think it's waking people up... "Hey, wait a minute.  That's true -- he isn't any better than her, or any of us.  He doesn't have a line to God or any special mysterious good reason for what he's doing, that we mere mortals cannot possibly comprehend... he's just a guy from a big oil family who got every imaginable break but isn't even particularly bright.  What in HELL is he DOING?"

    Bush can't stand this, and neither can his minions who try to shine in his reflected glory, and are both terrified by and drunk with his power, and that's why they're foaming at the mouth.  Deception cannot bear truth, cowardice cannot bear courage, and slavish worship cannot bear equality.

    Keep it up!  I'm sure it will get a lot uglier before it's over, but I also know that you draw on that which is much greater than yourself for strength, as true hero(in)es always have.  You have the massed love of all of us whose own courage you have inspired behind you as well.

    Godspeed!

  •  twisted devotion (4.00)
    The scariest part of your account, for me, is that the pro-Bush crowd has turned responsibility for the war and the killing around, blaming you instead of Bush for putting these soldiers in jeopardy.

    He's been lucky like that all his life, never held accountable for anything.  (Even being blind drunk until he was 40 is now seen as admirable - because he grabbed onto Jesus to deflect the blame.)  This is the most dictatorial regime I've ever lived through, and I'm a baby boomer.   I saw a movie last night about Hitler's last days in his bunker (Downfall) and the parallels are instructive.  Those around Bush can't handle the truth - their blind devotion to their leader will lead them right over the cliff, and they'll be smiling as they go down.

    Interestingly, the most professional among the military knew the war was lost, while everyone else threw themselves into Operation Tinkerbell (clap louder).

    Scary stuff indeed.

    •  Oh yeah (none)
      We saw this last month.  I posted on an earlier diary that the parallels (not talking philosophy but following someone who is out of touch with reality) were eerie.

      I recommend this movie to everyone.  It's not fun and games but it is very well done.

      Don't forget, ePluribus Media isn't them, it's US. That means you too.

      by Bionic on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:46:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Accountability (4.00)
      I highly recommend today's post from a true conservative blogger, The Cunning Realist

      Money quote:

      "In my world, even a relatively minor mistake can mean losing one's job; a single sufficiently serious one can be career-ending. In this administration, committing a series of colossal historic blunders is a prerequisite for receiving an Orwellian, Soviet-style "Freedom Medal." This, from the MBA president who promised to restore an ethos of corporate accountability to the White House. By the way, this is the main reason  I support Cindy Sheehan. I don't agree with everything she's saying. But she represents the ability of the average citizen to hold our highest elected officials to account for their actions; since this administration has proven itself unencumbered by self-evaluation or introspection, now more than ever this must be done. Exactly who has been publicly held to account for the utterly improbable series of intelligence and policy mistakes of the past few years? And has a physicist been consulted yet about the memory hole---apparently stronger than any black hole in the cosmos---in the basement of the White House?

      That's the crux of my criticism of this administration. The ones who got us here are mostly still running the joint, some have actually been promoted, the ones who were proven right were fired early on, and the few who left did so with medals on their chests. That gives me zero confidence in the ability of this bunch to pull off Iraq, Iran, or anything more challenging than organizing the White House's annual Easter egg hunt. And if its continued unforgivable reliance on mantras, platitudes and bromides is any indication, our political leadership has about the same level of confidence in its own ideas and abilities that I do."

      Whole thing's great, as usual.

    •  I saw that too! (none)
      It's an incredible film. I can't recommend it highly enough. Brilliant on so many levels and scarily relevant.

      And, like you, I likened it to what must surely happen to the bushco regime, whether sooner or later. It happens to all power mongers who take advantage of their people.

      I would hope that somehow we can get more folks to wise up & see where the country is headed if we allow these fascists to continue harming it.

      "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it."-- G.W. Bush, April 15, 2005

      by flashlass on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 10:14:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I watched CNN headline news (none)
    They reported "thousands" of prowar protesters and "hundreds" of pro Cindy supporters.

    One thing I'd like to know is who paid the way for those "thousands" vs who paid for the Camp Casians.

    Don't forget, ePluribus Media isn't them, it's US. That means you too.

    by Bionic on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:44:28 AM PDT

    •  Is that America-only news? (none)
      Because on CNN World News you distinctly get the impression that there's a lot more Camp Casians than otherwise. Bah.
    •  That pisses me off to no end. (none)
      That they make it sound like the prowar protestors outnumbered.
    •  Depends what you watch (4.00)
      My local news (I'm in Los Angeles) seems to be reporting it pretty accurately, but I am still watching them like a hawk, as sometimes they make derrogatory comments.

      MSNBC is one to watch for bias. That Nora O'Donnell must be a rightwing freak, and the other day in an interview with a woman running for congress, she called Cindy's group "anti-war EXTREMISTS."

      I wrote to them & complained about her. I think the video is at crooksandliars.com.

      It's up to us to keep calling the media on bias.

      "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it."-- G.W. Bush, April 15, 2005

      by flashlass on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 10:17:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "What noble cause" sticker (4.00)
    Inspired by you, Cindy, a new design--free for all to copy, display, distribute by email, or whatever: Image hosted by Photobucket.com

    The "Wimp" design is still available, too, at this link: Wimp design

  •  HOW Can Anyone Be Pro-War? (4.00)
    That's absolutely obscene.

    And yet, they are. Filled with bloodlust and hatred, rooted in bigotry, jingoism, power, greed... of biblical proportions.

    How can anyone be pro-war? War is obscene. It may ultimately be necessary at times. But this war is not necessary. Was not necessary. It is based on lies sanctioned by the government, by the president himelf and all his closest advisers.

    Republicans thought Bill Clinton's extramarital affair was obscene. But it is they who have brought us truly to a new era of obscenity: a war based on lies, and thousands of Americans killed by the hubris of those liars.

    Wars of choice are wars of crime.

    by TX Unmuzzled on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 06:48:17 AM PDT

    •  Most military people are anti-war (none)
      The real people who serve don't want to fight unless they have to. Only chickenhawks are pro-war.
    •  what is jingoism? (none)
      I've never heard of that one.
      •  The dictionary (4.00)
        ( what I call Google Off-Line ) defines it.

        jin-go-ism n. Extreme nationalism or chauvinism marked esp. by a belligerent foreign policy. --jin-go-ist n. --jin-go-is-tic adj. --jin-go-is-tic-al-ly adv.

        ALSO See:

        jin-go n. [From the phrase by jingo, used in the refrain of a bellicose English song.]  One who vociferously supports his or her country, esp. one who supports a belligerent foreign policy : chauvinist. --adj. 1. Of or relating to a jingo.  2. Marked by jingoism. --jin-go-ish adj.

        I'll use it in a sentence: (hope some of you get the reference)

        'That jingo ate my country!'

        •  I think the phrase comes from... (4.00)
          a popular 19thC. pro-war/pro-colonial/pro-`sun never sets on the British Empire' [and on our glorious courageous troops, and on the atrocities they commit] sort of "Rah, rah" song, which evidenced a pugilistic belligerence toward everything not-British.

          Seems like the words `by Jingo' occurred at the ends of each lyrical phrase.   And the phrase `by Jingo' became proverbial, and wiggled it's way into the language as Jingoism.

          The French were easily as bloodthirsty - their best Jingo phrases came from the French Revolution, from a street song called "Ça Ira," which the revolutionaries sang as they delicately hung aristocrats from the lamp posts of Paris. The song ended with the phrase "A LA LANTERNE!", which means `To the Lampost!,' and they sang that phrase especially loudly as they watched the aristocrats choke to death on their lamp post gibbits.  Charming French Jingoism.

          The KINGS OF JINGO, however, are these Bushies!  Remember all the rallies and parades, the flags and banners, the bands, the overblown rhetoric accompanying "Operation Iraqi Whatever" at the start of The George Bush Memorial War?  Remember the breathless, sweating reporters riding on lumbering tanks, racing across an empty god-forsaken desert "for God and Glory and AMERICA!"  THAT was pure Jingoism!  Those poor dull drab British Colonialists-of-old could not hold a "bleedin'" candle to Mr. Bush's Warriors.  Rudyard Kipling would hang his head in shame, and quit the field of battle.

          And the "..Thousands of Pro-War Supporters" who "invaded" Crawford yesterday to "Support the President"?:  

                         JINGO, JINGO, JINGO!

      •  Since that term is not tested (none)
        on our state-mandated accountability tests, no one learns it in History class anymore.  More thanks to NCLB.

        The truth always matters.

        by texasmom on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 12:07:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  the message in the media (none)
    I saw Babe Buchanan (spelling?) on CNN say in NICE and maybe even ADMIRING tones that Cindy's protest is a significant factor in GB's poll numbers.  

    If I were GB, I'd be pretty worried when the right wing start recognizing Cindy's power!  But then, who is telling him?

  •  Cindy, You are a true American Hero (none)
    Thank you so much for doing what you're doing. It's so much like a breath of fresh air to hear someone speaking the truth and holding Bush accountable for his disasterous policies.

    Don't let those idiots in the other camp get you down. They are also exercising their freedom of speech, even though they are completely wrong in their thinking.

    We love you, Cindy. You have the truth on your side, and that's no small thing.

  •  Cindy's Success (4.00)
    I believe there is inherent sexism and classism in attempts to explain Cindy Sheehan's astounding success in catalyzing the peace movement. People, or at least the media, seem to have difficulty regarding this "ordinary woman" as a phenomenon in her own right. Great leaders, such as Martin Luther King, Jr., have had the rare ability to articulate concepts and principles in ways that reach hearts and minds with uncanny clarity and force. We may not be able to explain this, but we recognize it when we see it. Such is the case with Cindy.
  •  Bush is Really (none)
    overmatched here.  He is one tenth as intelligent and one tenth as articulate as you. No contest.
  •  "This country is not worth dying for." (none)
    Thats the latest ammo on Cindy. As far as they are concerned, nothing else is justified, just because of these 7 words.

    http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/Articles/Stewartrally.htm

    Evidently, those words were spoken by Cindy at a Lynne Stewart rally in April of this year.

    I'd be interested in hearing from Cindy on this. The whole paragraph is confusing and not sure what context it was said in, or if it was said at all

    •  It seems to me... (none)
      ...that she was referring to Iraq.

      Bring 'em home. Now.

      by MichaelPH on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 07:39:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  She was talking about Iraq (4.00)
      ""This country is not worth dying for. If we're attacked, we would all go out. We'd all take whatever we had. I'd take my rolling pin and I'd beat the attackers over the head with it. But we were not attacked by Iraq."

      http://tinyurl.com/dtqu8

      Once again the wingnuts get it wrong, though you can't tell them they are wrong because they "know" what she said.

      "September 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country." Judge Gerald Tjoflat

      by SanJoseLady on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 07:44:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, go all out (none)
        • to get Osama and Zawahiri who ordered 9/11.

        • go after nuclear proliferators like AQ Khan who might make a nuclear 9/11 possible

        That's not something Bush has done in the past four years.

        Can someone ask those "pro-war" supporters those two questions?

        Do they even know that while Bush has had us quagmired in Iraq for the past 2.5 years, we haven't even shut down the AQ Khan proliferation network, some segments of that network still remain uninvestigated.

      •  Parsed big time! (none)
        I had to read it several times, but I agree that is what she is refering to. That quote is on a thousand right-wing sites. they think they finally found something to hang around her neck, but unfortunately the clasp won't close. Just more parsing!
    •  I've seen that before. (none)
      She was referring to IRAQ, NOT the U.S.

      If only I could find the link right now....  I'm sure some other Kossack has the link handy.

  •  Thank you, Cindy (4.00)
    Cindy, all I can say is THANK YOU. Thank you for starting a movement that will end this crazy, immoral, illegal occupation. Thank you for holding this dispicable president's feet to the fire.  Thank you for being so brave. Thank you for being so clear and poised.  I am the mother of a 19-year-old son and am terrified that this bunch of war mongers are going to institute another draft.  Cindy, from the bottom of my heart, Thank You.
  •  Cindy, What Was Casey's Favorite Color? (none)
    Kind of a weird question I know.  But I got to thinkin that many causes know a days seem to have colors associated with them.  Example being the orange revolution in the Ukraine.  

    I thought it might be appropriate if everyone were to wear Casey's favorite color, assuming he had one.  Camp Casey people and all who support the cause could start sporting T-shirts and/or hats with Casey's favorite color.  Besides helping to differentiate us from the pro-war Bushies, a sea of people of all the same color has a dramatic effect on the TV screens and in newspaper photos.

    Just a thought you might consider.

    P.S. Kinda hope Casey favorite color was blue, not red.

    P.S.S.  Sorry if some of you might of noticed this comment before, but I thought it was a good idea that deserves some attention.  So I apologize to those who may be anoid.

  •  'Scuse the language (4.00)
    But OH for fuck's sake. Yay war! Because people die and there's a ton of gore and bloodshed and lives are ruined and fucked up and lost. Joy.

    You know what I think'd be cool? If any of the soldiers injured in the war opposed it and came out to Camp Casey, and a whole bunch of them just...lined up in front of the Pro-War nuts when they came over to harass Cindy and co. In uniform. With broken/amputated limbs and scars and all. And just stood there, silently, making their point.

    Well, fine, it's a bit of a childish fantasy, but it's a pretty cool image, innit?

    You go, Ma'am. We're behind you all the way. Thank you.

    •  Gave you a 4 on that one (4.00)
      These people just enrage me! They create a rally against a mother who lost her son in the war and wants to know why!????

      I swear, these people are sick, sick, sick. I don't get it.

      I gather they want a dictatorship, not a democracy. They're too stupid to see their own hypocrisy.

      I really hate these people. I also hate feeling this way, but well... I can't help it.

      And I LOVE your fantasy! Boy, that would be pretty powerful, except those nuts don't have the brains to see the symbolism behind it.

      "Getting on with my life means a life without my dear, sweet boy. I wish a little bike ride could help me get on with my life." Cindy Sheehan

      by Dunbar on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 08:09:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dictatorship or Democracy? (4.00)
        I gather they want a dictatorship, not a democracy.

        You got it.

        I think they want a scripted life...someone to tell them when to eat, sh!t, pray, hate, have sex, work, die; how to spend their money, how to vote, pray, have sex, work, die; what job to take, what to read, watch, pray, believe in, hate; who to hate, love, fight, vote for, denigrate...et al...ad infinitum.

        Why are people willing to be treated like a five-year old in an abusive family?

        As for evilstorm's fantasy...I like it, too.

        ~Question authority. It works for me.~

        Choo Choo Q.

        "Those that set in motion the forces of evil cannot always control them afterwards." ~~ Charles W. Chesnutt

        by Quotefiend on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 01:12:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I Think Your Fantasy Communicates Beautifully... (none)
      ...and with about 100 injured vets in their dress blues, adequately trained in nonviolence, we could film the thing ourselves (since the MSM would think it wasn't good TV).

      Just standing there in one long line, staring, silent.

      The act would FORCE, passively, the angry mob to turn inward and reflect.

      Yes, there would be an idiot or two who would likely attack the line, but, trust me, there are plenty of intelligent, if delusional, people on the right who would know better than to allow things to get out of hand....

  •  Rinse, repeat, everyone. (4.00)
    "People who say we DON'T have the right to dissent are un-patriotic and un-American."

    Again?

    "People who say we DON'T have the right to dissent are un-patriotic and un-American."

    Yes.

  •  Fascists (4.00)
    have taken over the GOP, and they are showing America exactly what they are made up, hate, violence and group think.

    Cindy, thank you for your dedication, because not only are you helping to resolve this illegal war, your actions are helping Americans to see what the far right of this country really is, fascists, and those who see what the far right has become are waking up and starting to take note.

    God bless you Cindy.

    "September 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country." Judge Gerald Tjoflat

    by SanJoseLady on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 07:47:04 AM PDT

  •  I'm so glad (none)
    that you, and everyone else at Camp Casey, made it through yesterday safely.

    Especially after hearing that the Protest Warriors were on the scene. They tried to start fights everywhere they went at the march in New York City during the Republican Convention, but the NYC Police were wise to them.

    As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it? - William Marcy Tweed

    by sidnora on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 07:47:30 AM PDT

    •  I think it might help! (none)
      Because you just know they are going to get all worked up and violent. They will be the focus of the police. It will look bad for their "cause". Wingnuts just can't help displaying how they can't control their anger, which is a glaring sign of stupidity.

      "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it."-- G.W. Bush, April 15, 2005

      by flashlass on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 09:58:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You misunderstand their tactics (none)
        They weren't overtly violent or out-of-control. They would quietly infiltrate the line of march holding their posters and then start "accidentally" bumping into people marching nearby - specially targeting young guys, who they assumed would be more hot-tempered - in an effort to get a rise out of the marchers.

        Their idea was to provoke violence from the anti-Bush marchers, so that when the cops waded in they could point at us and say "They started it".

        To their credit, the NYPD repeatedly ordered them out of the line of march and back onto the sidelines. And to their credit, our guys never took the bait.

        As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it? - William Marcy Tweed

        by sidnora on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 11:24:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  FALLING into their Trap (4.00)
    "Oh really, isn't George Bush killing innocent Americans and Iraqis by sending them to fight in an illegal and immoral war for power and greed? I think the real culprit is my neighbor: George."

    Mrs. Sheehan, with all due respect this has turned out exactly as I thought it would-- a total media circus where the TRUE perpetrators, the TRUE warmongers and war profiteers among us in the United States get off scot free because of the distraction in Crawford.

    Dubya is NOT the president of the U.S. in the true sense of the word. he's simply the spokesperson for numerous U.S. war profiteering corporations and oil corporations with connections to the Bush family and the the House of Saud which were established decades ago.

    your son and all the other sons and daughters in Iraq and Afghanistan were/are there to PROVIDE FREE SECURITY for U.S. corporations who want to make money in those countries.

    the MASSIVE PROFITS of these corporations and the obvious kickbacks they give to the repuglican party are indeed the "noble cause" Bush speaks of when he speaks of those who made the ultimate sacrifice in the Iraq hellhole.

    the incredible wealth of a handful of greddy and selfish Americans-- what could be more "noble" to them and their families??

  •  I would love to see (4.00)
    an in depth psychological study done on Bush supporters.  It may hold some keys to all kinds of pathological and irrational behavior.

    If those kind of people are not opposed to you, I guess you are not living right, so you, Cindy, are clearly on the side of the angels.  

    Hugs and fists raised in cyber-solidarity to you from Illinois.  I wear my "Troops out Now" button and my "What noble cause?" sign on my car daily, and am determined to do what I can to keep the questions you are raising in front of everyone's eyes.

  •  Our unending question to the pro-war group... (4.00)
    ...should be "why aren't YOU in Iraq supporting the troops?"

    Not just your sons and daughters, not just your neighbors, but YOU.

    After all, if the pro-war group believes so passionately that Bush's cause is moralistically right and critically important to protect America's safety against terrorists (or whatever today's reason might be), there are always opportunities for these zealots to directly support America's efforts and our troops.

    Simply put, these folks don't need to fight to support both our troops and W's glorious vision.  Why aren't they aggressively pursuing some of the contracting opportunities that exist in Iraq ... assuming that they are too old to enlist?  Many of America's contractors are in their fifties and sixties.  And - just think of the PR mileage that these folks could get in their communities and churches by packing up to help out in Iraq. After all, they would be actively contributing to God's will and aid in reversing some of the damage done to pro-American interests by those evil "pro-terrorist" dissenters back home.  Certainly, that has to resonate more for their causes than by toting around picket signs that proclaim the anti-war group are Osama's pawns.

    Of course, that'll never happen.  From my point of view, the war is just a tool for many of the wingers to express their unwavering allegiance to the GOP and the badge of conservatism (no matter what the current policies might be) along with their collective outrage of anything that is flavored as being left or liberal.  I've grown up and lived among these people all of my life, watching them flap in the wind as past arguments become invalid as the GOP whale turns in its course.  The roots of their hatred and ideology are deep seeded; hard-wired from birth or early childhood, and seemingly, no amount of personal self-destruction that results by their continued support of the GOP and its policies -that benefit the few - will ever cause them to change.

    "Self-respect is the keystone of democracy"

    by neverontheright on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 08:04:56 AM PDT

  •  So relieved (none)
    I was anxious yesterday that the counter-protestors would cause serious harm and am thrilled that this did not happen. Cindy, I know you do not like to think of yourself in this way, but IMO, you ARE the catalyst for the anti-war movement in this country, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart!
  •  Yet again (none)
    you have left me speechless with your perseverance and painfully obvious truth telling.  Keep it up and thank you!
  •  Watched Ben Stein this a.m. on Sunday show (none)
    Actually, I can't stand Ben Stein, I'm glad nobody ever answered any of his questions in "Ferris Bueller."  He did have some nice words to say about you and some not so nice about GWB, but in the end he was still Ben Stein.
    Nancy Giles provided the counterpoint and a nice contrast in her wonderful style.  And, even on our local news we had a wonderful clip of you talking with a man who said, "this is the Jedi Camp, because that's certainly the Dark Side."

    Just wanted to say that my husband and I are following you as closely as we can from our home in Henderson, NV.  He and I have a personal bet.  He seems to think that the EVIL Empire will beat you down because they are really good at that sort of thing.  I, on the other hand being a mother, and a mother of a son, know that your just like the Energizer Bunny and that you will keep on in your own way.  You may never get the answer you are seeking, frankly, there isn't a good one, but I can tell you will see this through.
    God speed!!!

  •  The storm, (none)
    Was just away, of letting you know that you are on the right path, and to give, you and all those there, the strength to carry on. It is also symbolic of the storm that is gathering across the country as the Peace movement picks up more and moe support. I like you, feel sorry for those who have lost loved ones, in this debacle, of lies but don't unerstand, why they can't see past the Bush to find the forest of evidence that this Bush is covering up. Peace ABA607

    "Fight the good fight everybody"

    by american badass 607 on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 09:41:37 AM PDT

  •  I hate to say it, but (none)
    haven't we seen all this before?  As maybe others have pointed out.  The anti-war movement that started in the 60's was seen as very anti-American, and some still see it that way.  The college campuses that were first involved were said to be taken over by "a few outside agitators."  Not the nice American students who were actually enrolled.  

    What's that mean?  Is it especially the right who demonize their opponents?

    Cindy, thank you for risking so much to stand up against such negative forces.  

  •  Were there any (none)
    Pro-War protests during Vietnam?? I think this is a new thing. Does anyone know? (I was negative 10 years old at the time)

    Its not easy being a Floridian.

    by lawstudent922 on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 09:47:59 AM PDT

    •  Were there pro-war protests in Viet Nam? (none)
      Sure there were!  With signs like "America:  Love It or Leave It".  
    •  And (none)
      I should have added:  The pro-war people felt the troops were protecting the world from Communism.  There was this domino theory...
    •  I Had To Comment..... (4.00)
      "Negative Ten at the Time"

      That was Cute, and Thanks for the Chuckle!!

      Yes there were, a few have commented, the toughest were the 'HardHats' of the Industry I work in and have since returning from 'Nam.

      But the Meaningful were the Remarks of Passerby's when a couple of us would be talking about 'Nam, such as 'Baby Killers' etc., happened Way Too Often, and NOT By Anti-War Folks but the UpStanding Citizens of the day!

      Others weren't as Direct especially in the Movies and Drama's of the day, Sly etc. didn't come along till later. If there was a 'BadGuy' in a Flick it was ussually Noted he was a Vietnam Vet, oh they had a few Hero Vets but mostly the Vet Character was the Villian, same for TV Drama's.

      Another was, if Arrested for a Crime, minor to major, and the Perp was a Vietnam Vet, it was Dooly Noted in the write up. It was never Mentioned if they weren't Vets if the Perp wasn't, go figure!!!
      ***
      Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
      -- John F. Kennedy

      ***
      James Starowicz
      USN '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In-Country '70-'71 COMNAVFORV

    •  Absolutely (none)
      I remember the "hard hats" -- the idea being that men who worked in construction were the solid middle class people supporting Nixon and the war.

      "American Love It or Leave It" was a big slogan then as well, a slap at people who went to Canada.

      Nixon also talked a lot about the "Silent Majority", claiming that although there were huge anti-Vietnam protests that the overwhelming majority of people who did not protest were supportive of him and the war.  (Rpgs are pulling this one out of mothballs again in blind faith denial of the wide margins in the disapproval polls.)

      That's actually the reason for my screen name.  I was originally going to call myself Silent Blue Majority.  But "true blue" has such positive tradition behind it and the rhyme makes it catchier.

      Nixon had the Silent Majority but we are the True Blue Majority.

      And we ARE the majority--don't let Diebold tell you otherwise.

      Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 03:36:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Another Classic (none)
      from that era -
      My country, right or wrong!

      IOW, don't question authority, like the Preznit or the Sec. Def.

      "Unpatriotic my ASS!"

      by WV Democrat on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 04:59:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  First, when I read this... (4.00)
    I got that big spark of anger that automatically results on from reading about the absolute stupidity and hatred of these rightwingnuts. That always happens, an automatic response of frustration, really, that they have no idea what they are doing, what cause they are furthering, how much damage they wreak. These people are so ignorant they have no knowledge of history, how they are repeating behavior of past followers of fascism, or even really of the origin or true theology of the religion they claim to practice.

    They bought everything that Lush Bimbaugh and Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have dished out. They've bought everything that dumbya has dished out. They are basically so stupid and ignorant that they love the man who has injured their nation and their safety. People just get much more clueless than that.

    That being said, my momentary anger always subsides when I consider that, when left to their own devices and ignored by the Camp Casey protesters, they will probably implode. They'll have to do something with all that hate. They'll probably start fightin' and yellin' and throwin' stuff. Look how they attacked their own (yes, and what the hell DID that sign mean - "Say No to War---except when a Democrat is President"??). If that isn't an outward display of the collective ignorance and stupidity of their group, I don't know what is. And the fact they attacked the person, kicked him out & ripped up his signs... ahem. That speaks volumes. Would anyone at Camp Casey do that? Obviously not.

    Yes, if the pro-peace demonstrators just keep doing their thing and ignore the wingnut whackjobs, said wingnuts will implode. You can't have that much frustrated rage inside of you and remain calm.

    I just hope no one gets harmed in the process.

    "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it."-- G.W. Bush, April 15, 2005

    by flashlass on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 09:48:09 AM PDT

    •  Just a little bit of subtlety (none)
      can get your ass kicked in certain circles.

      "We don't do no fuckin nuance!"

      What a pack of shitheads.

      Go, Cindy. You've done more in a month to hold Bush accountable than his parents, the business world, Congress or the goddam Democrats have done in his freakin life.

      Down, by God, but not out.

      by perro amarillo on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 10:11:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Reason Pro-War Folks Enrage Me... (none)
    ...is because I feel the same rage and I place myself in-charge of dealing with those emotions.

    But there is a higher-self that I can place in charge of overwhelming emotions.  The self that I share with these goop-heads.

    When I place a higher self in charge of my behavior, I understand what these people are frightened of.  Terrified.

    Do they want to be, "right," or do they want to be, "happy?"

    Folks who are happiest when they are right are always wrong.

  •  Dear Cindy, (none)
    The rally looked awesome on the CNN website, but sadly didn't get fair coverage in today's LA TIMES.  The coverage had a photo of about 5 pro-war Bushies next to a photo of one anti-war activist with a comparison of pro vs. anti numbers showing the Bushies in the majority.  False reporting, just as the Bushies' rally held in Crawford paints YOU as the killer in this war.  Amazing and frightening, but your strength and your refusal to back down when threatened, knowing you've lost more than enough for this, makes you really untouchable, just as Maxine Waters said.  The hue and cry if any harm befalls you would completely overwhelm the liars and hate-mongers.  Hopefully, Rove knows this and will caution against it with his "Christian" soldiers.  Please keep saying you chose this path on your own because the MSM keeps saying you're being handled by PR firms.  I can't wait to say I met Casey's mom when I see you in DC on the 24th! GO CINDY, GO CINDY, GO!!  You really did start the beginning of the end of the war in Iraq.
  •  Maybe this is 'the noble cause' (none)
    Just in case anyone needed further proof as to the COLASSAL failure of our current imperialist mis-adventure in the middle east...

    unintended consequence?

  •  God Bless you Cindy! (none)
    I feel you are the one keeping my kids out of GW's clutches. All my kids and other people's kids are to him and his ilk is beasts of burden, trained fighters to wage their wars and keep quiet about the war costs in blood and spoiled lives..

    His comment about getting on with his life reminded me of HIS MOM's comment the day before he send Casey and others to war in Iraq

       "...why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant. So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

        -- Barbara Bush on ABC/Good Morning America, March 18, 2003

    (I kid you not, Babs really said that:
    lawnorder: Barbara's Beautiful Mind, in context)

     

  •  A Great Photo Of Camp CaseyII (4.00)
    I posted this earlier, on another Diary about a Vist to Camp Casey, went shopping and now that Diary is gone. As soon as I saw this I put it on my Desktop as the Wallpaper which replaces one of 'Arlington West'. I also sent it around and have received some Great feedback already. Thought others who didn't see the other Diary might want it To Remember:


    Camp Casey II at night. Photo by Jeff Paterson, Not in Our Name, Aug. 27, 2005 jeff@paterson.net

    It was used on the G.I. Special Newsletter for today and is linked to that Newsletter.
    This, to me, gives the Meaning of All that went down this Month. From a group of Veterans, at the VFP Convention, including Iraq Veterans, and Military Families, and GoldStar Moms and Family members Traveling to stay in a RoadSide Ditch, outside of a pResidents Vacation Pretend Ranch, to the Organizing that Took Place for this Photo of Reality!!
    If All Of What Took Place At Camp Casey could be done in a Couple Of Weeks We Can End This War and Take Back Our Country With The Same Common Sense Organizing and In A Peaceful Manner!!
    *****
    Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
    -- John F. Kennedy

    *****
    ...a president is not the country.... it is loyalty to the country that is important....not the leader of the country....
    *****
    James Starowicz
    VFP 'Declaration Of Impeachment'
    Sign On and Pass Link To Others
    VFP Impeachment Petition
    USN '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In-Country'70-'71 COMNAVFORV
    Member: Veterans For Peace/

     

  •  Today's Chicago Tribune Editorial Comic (none)
    shows Mrs. Sheehan standing in the midst of a media circus with circus animals carrying protest signs "Bush is the real terrorist", clowns flashing the two-fingered peace sign, etc.

    "Mrs. Sheehan" stands in the midst of this saying "Why won't the president talk to me?"

    of course this is the right wingnut response to taking the protest to Crawford and aptly proves the point I've been making here all along.

    tbis is simply the wrong way to conduct the protest and it's against the wrong target.

    and it again proves that right wing warmongers are quite willing to shoot the messenger in the total interest of distracting from the real message, i.e. the message that Americans are being killed in Iraq for all the WRONG reasons.

    there's only one way to bring the giant down.

  •  Cindy (none)
    I'm sorry if this has already been asked of you, but some people say that you've already met with the El Prez on a previous occassion.  I'm not sure if this is accurate, and if so, did you get to ask the questions important to you, and if you did ask them, did he respond?

    I'm not a troll, and I'm just curious, since (admittedly) I'm unfamiliar with the complete prologue of your story preceeding your current stint at Crawford.

  •  Imagine THIS President... (none)

    Listen to the MP3 (approx. 6MB):

    http://67.15.157.3/~waxaudio/Mediacracy_07_Imagine_This_192kbps.MP3




    View the Website (higher quality MP3 here):

    http://www.waxaudio.com.au/download_the_mp3s




    It's quite amazing how sound bites, spliced together into a beautiful song can give stark contrast to what we actually hear day after day.

    Too bad we couldn't do this with all of George's speeches, before broadcast!

    The whole world loves you Cindy!

  •  I just sent out........ (4.00)
    This Diary, of Cindy's with my own Comment fronting it saying

    "I will front Cindy's Diary with this Comment; Anyone who puts a Political Party/Religious Ideology, especially one they are making up an doesn't come close to the reality of the party/religious ideology they say they represent, and those Supporting these Destructive Policies/War are doing just that, Over Their Country, are the Ones who are UnPatriotic and UnAmerican for this Resembles Too Closely what has occurred in the Past, Fascism Comes To Mind, Never Questioning, Embracing The Propaganda, as well as other Historical Events of Destructive Human Behavior!!!!!!"

    What we are Witnessing, in this country, is the Bigotry that is within Far Too Many but hasn't been brought out Full Force as it is being done so today, it was mostly hidden after the Civil Rights Movement. We witness some starting in the Reagan Era, and it has been building since than with effective Double Speak that is Pushing the Right Buttons of the Weak! We in turn Must Stay Strong and Focussed because those that Hate So Much and So Many Never Win, History is our witness! But where their Hatred carries them Must Be Watched closely!
    ****
    ...a president is not the country.... it is loyalty to the country that is important....not the leader of the country....
    *
    *****
    James Starowicz
    VFP 'Declaration Of Impeachment'
    Sign On and Pass Link To Others
    VFP Impeachment Petition
    USN '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In-Country'70-'71 COMNAVFORV
    Member: Veterans For Peace

  •  "Logic"? (none)
    Don't get caught up in trying to follow their "logic" down its many twisted rabbitholes.

    The only logical outcome to their idea of wars is to "put to the sword" all the male inhabitants of the land to be plundered (we won't say what they'd do to the females)  JUST LIKE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT!

    (And that's why they love that book so much!  The mindless "simplicity" in its tales of slaughter excite them.)

    The only logical question is "How are you going to stand against them?".  Without getting yourself into a whole lot of "smiting"...

    http://www.warresisters.org/wtr.htm

    If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State...

    by HenryDavid on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 11:11:12 AM PDT

  •  San Diego protests? Need info, want to go (none)
    I'm not from San diego, but I have the good fortune to be IN San Diego right now.

    It's a beautiful city and it will be very difficult to wreck George's trip, so I guess we need all the help we can get.  I'm game.

    Can someone get me the right info so I can help out?  I'm working in the gay area of the city so my guess is unless I have some instructions for finding George, I won't cross his path by chance.

  •  Cindy, you will win for the same reason we lost... (none)
    the 2004 election.  Everything the right is doing now is REACTIVE.

    During the 2004 campaign, everything was a reaction to the right.  The right gave the fight on their terms, and Kerry was dumb enough to do it.

    Now, the tables have turned.  They're reacting to you.  They're reacting to all of us.  We will win because of this.

    Keep making the point that going after a grieving mother and not a lying President is just sickening.  Make the point everytime you're interviewed.

  •  Anti-Peace? (none)
    What I don't understand is how you can label supporters of the Iraq war as part of an "anti-peace" movement.  Believe it or not, what Americans just like your son are doing there is building the foundation for a peaceful Iraq. Do you honestly think that if we leave now there will be peace?  If you do, then I am sorry to say that you are incredibly naive.  Leaving Iraq in this time of turmoil will only allow more violence to take place and another Saddam Hussein to rise to power.  This is exactly what happened at the end of the first Gulf War, and is the main reason why Americans are in Iraq today.  If Bush decides to bring the soldiers back home now, we will have condemned future generations of Americans to fight an even larger, more dangerous war in the very same region.  

    If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.
    --Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

    •  anti-peace / pro-war same thing (4.00)
      The pro-war movement wants the war to continue purely because their president says so. He sent young men and women to die for a lie. His ego and the bank accounts of his friends and accomplices are so wrapped up in continueing this debacle that they can't admit failure or fault. A true man admits his mistakes and works to remedy them.  We've had years to turn on the water, electricity, start rebuilding the infrastructure but things are worse for the Iraqi people now than before we invaded, especially for women. It was bad under Saddam but for every terrorist who sought the destruction of America and it's ideals, GWB is responsible for creating 50 more.
      The pro-war movement should ask their president why millions of dollars supposedly for rebuilding efforts have disappeared yet our soldiers are begging for armor. Maybe their president should ask the folks who organized Camp Casey 1&2 to offer tips on rebuilding Iraq - let's put people with brains and a heart on the task. To all those pro-war groupies, if you're under 42 show us how "patriotic" you are by enlisting. Put up or shut up.
    •  You Cannot............. (none)
      Bomb People To 'Democracy' and 'Freedom', We've Already Lost Iraq, and Everything that is Happening and Will appen is a Direct Result of an Extremely Failed Policy Decision By The Fools who made it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      After the 1st Gulf War NGO's were in Iraq Helping the People, not the Government Rebuild their Lives because of the Destruction caused than and the Sanctions, they Left shortly before the Illegal Invasion, Had To Leave, Veterans For Peace was only One of Many NGO's!

      WE Opened the Pandoras Box in Iraq and the Clasp has now been Broken, We Are Now Responsible Not Only For The Devestation Caused but What Is Too Come, All Done In Our Names!!!
      ***
      ...a president is not the country.... it is loyalty to the country that is important....not the leader of the country....
      *
      ***
      Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind...War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
      -- John F. Kennedy

      *
      ****
      James Starowicz
      VFP 'Declaration Of Impeachment'
      Sign On and Pass Link To Others
      VFP Impeachment Petition
      USN '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In-Country'70-'71 COMNAVFORV
      Member: Veterans For Peace

    •  Well actually I don't believe (none)
      we're building the foundation for peace in Iraq.  If that were true, we would have moved mountains to get their infrastructure up - running water, electricity, schools (yes, there are some schools now, except it's not safe enough to go to them!) - and to secure their safety.  But instead what did this administration do when we marched into Baghdad?  They disbanded the militia (leaving thousands unemployed and destitute) and let the entire humanity of Iraq and it's history be plundered and pillaged instead of protected and preserved.  I ask you, that's building a foundation for peace?  Perhaps in your mind, but most certainly NOT in mine.

      Bush lies, people die  

  •  This pretty much sums it up. (4.00)
    Yesterday, I read a novel called "On the Occasion of My Last Afternoon" by Kaye Gibbons, which is set during the Civil War. Here's a quote which seems timely:

    "The four years of war were snatched by men who thought the maintenance of the peculiar institution more important than ruined homes. And the gall, the gall, to pour blood over fields that women were keeping, over smokehouse floors where the farm poor boiled salt out of the dirt and tried to preserve measly hanks of meat for their children, over kitchen tables that were scrubbed by women who toiled when there was no need because there was nothing to spend the afternoon cooking. I still hold that it was a conflict perpetrated by rich men and fought by poor boys against hungry women and babies."

    Kaye Gibbons is probably best known for her novel, "Ellen Foster".

    Go, Cindy!!

  •  Camp Casey Should Consider Standing Down (none)
    It might not be a bad idea for our people in Crawford to mellow out for a few days to allow the president to focus on the catastrophic situation developing in the New Orleans area without distraction.

    Oh wait...

    The president is going golfing in Arizona and then it's onto San Diego.  I guess that's more important.

    My point is that Cindy and company may wish to hold off on any attempts go garner media attention in the coming days.

    Pray for those poor fuckers around New Orleans as they brace for a direct hit.  I have friends there and I have no idea if they're safe.

    Anyway, get some rest.  I'll see you when the bus tour hits Minnesota!

  •  This explains the whole Bush/Rove plan (none)
    ...
    " the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.Hermann Goering at Nuremberg on 18th April, 1946

    Is that not what BushCo has done daily since 9/11?

    "War is regarded as nothing but the continuation of state policy with other means." - Karl von Clausewitz

    by maybeeso in michigan on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 01:34:56 PM PDT

  •  Given Enough Provocation... (none)
    ...I could be pulled into a pro-war stance over a particular issue.

    Iraq had some of these issues going for it, but it just didn't cross the threshhold for me.  There was too much BS involved in riling people up to attack themselves.

    I smelled the rat back in 1999.  I am saddened that I was correct in my assessment.

    But I was also correct in my assessment of this person...a truly remarkable human being and well worth anyone's time and energy to become acquainted with.

  •  These people are fascists. (none)
    They do not believe in free speech that threatens the mission of the far right:  altering the US Constitution to substitute a neo-fascist state--where the majority gets what it wants every time without exception--in place of the constititutional democracy we had when Bill Clinton was President and there were courts and laws that checked the 'tyranny of the majority'.  

    Our movement is bigger than theirs.  Let's keep pushing to Washington.  Let's force the elected Democratic politicians to start singing the words "exit strategy" in unison.

  •  as teddy said: (4.00)
        "The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.

    Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile.

    To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

    - "Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
    May 7, 1918

    bully!

  •  Hrm... (none)
    Well, not wanting to sound political about this, (but it will anyways, sorry in advance for that). It's all coming off to the country and media that a whole bunch of people are ganging up on just you. One woman. My how brave...
    The We hate Cindy tour is going to back fire on them for one reason. No body likes a bully. And they look exactly like bullies against you Cindy.
    Stay safe please.
  •  Cindy I wanted to share this with you (4.00)
    My brother, a Catholic priest, did a novena for you.  And just today, I received this email back from him in response to the below articles I sent him about you.

    Your post from 8-20-05

    The article from the artist who did your portrait

    And a wonderful article I found comparing you to Antigone

    He sent back this email about being invited to a parish as a guest priest and his prayers for you.  He's in Georgia (BushCo country) and I hope you'll find his words comforting:

    Hey Sal:

    Thanks, dear Sister, for these. I couldn't get to them until this a.m. (Sunday) -- I had some time because the Mass I am covering is this afternoon instead of this morning.

    All three brought tears to my eyes, and yes, I remember Mother and the production of "Antigone" at the First Unitarian Church (early '60's -- OMG!), and yes, how apt a comparison!

    You asked me to pray for Cindy when we talked last Saturday.

    I want you to know that I did, at every Mass I have celebrated this past week (total of five, I think), including a big one last Sunday down in rural Georgia, where I was a guest priest at one of our new churches (rural Georgia is growing, growing, growing).

    The Deacon ad-libbed a prayer for our troops, stopping just short of asking God for their success on their holy mission (he didn't quite say that, but his words were to that effect). His attitude is not atypical of Georgia in general, and rural or suburban Gerogia in particular.

    I couldn't stand it. [my emphasis]

    So I, who as celebrant had the job of wrapping up the prayer portion of the Mass, ad-libbed a prayer for Cindy Sheehan and all the Mothers in Iraq and the United States who have lost a child in the war, and for our President that he might find the path to peace.

    Now I'm not going to lie to you and say anyone cheered or wept. They didn't, except for one woman who quietly said "thank-you" afterwards.

    But what amazed me was that no one challenged me afterward. Usually, when I have spoken out in a homily or a prayer on something controversial, at least one blowhard gets in my face about it. [my emphasis]

    Not last Sunday. Something has changed out there. [my emphasis]

    I'm going to keep it up, as my offering on Cindy's altar of truth at Crawford.

    I hope you find comfort in knowing that all over the world people are praying for you and yours.

    God bless

  •  Cindys attackers thanking the Freepers (none)
    Cindy might want to show this as proof of who the extremist were. MoveAmericaForward sent a email to the freepers.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1472431/posts

  •  Martin Sheen is at Crawford (none)
    They are saying a Rosary service for Casey (he was a devout Catholic) and the other fallen. It is lovely. If you want to listen, follow the link in my sig line.

    I have to go now, but just wanted to tell anyone who might see this!

    Listen to Crawford broadcast of the Brad Show live starting every day at noon (CT)

    by SisTwo on Sun Aug 28, 2005 at 04:38:09 PM PDT

  •  Say No to War, except when a Democrat is President (none)
    FUCKING CLASS A TRANSFERRENCE. This is just their blatant hyporcisy of opposing war only when a Democrat is president onto US. Nothing makes me more angry than this kind of projective bullshit. Too many rightards project the numerous weaknesses of their empty souls onto those of us with integrity, and I for one am sick of it.

    But it's nice to see that it got taken down by OTHER rightards kthxby.

  •  What's the best way to contact Cindy? (none)
    I have a friend who would like to interview Cindy for a political journal based out of New York.  Does anyone know the best way to reach either her or whatever PR people she may have helping her coordinate her interview schedule? Of course, if Cindy or the person who helps with her schedule checks this thread, please contact me, if at all possible.

    You can email me at benignneglect at hotmail dot com or just reply in this thread if appropriate.

    Thanks very much.

    "Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths . . . I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?" - B. Bush

    by The New Politeness on Mon Aug 29, 2005 at 08:08:43 AM PDT

    •  Thanks to all (none)
      I've been in contact

      "Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths . . . I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?" - B. Bush

      by The New Politeness on Mon Aug 29, 2005 at 08:52:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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