Pundit wankery

Chris Suellentrop:

And while it's true that his role as a Dean consultant was disclosed and reported in the press on multiple occasions, it came as a surprise this week to a whole lot of people, including a lot of prominent bloggers.

Um, who gives a shit who it surprised? As Atrios says:

It isn't sufficient to tell reporters in mainstream media outlets, or to post it on your website for months. Unless you telepathically communicate it to the entire population of planet Earth, MicrosoftWashington Post Co.-owned Slate will find fault.

Next is Novak:

Howard Dean is running for Democratic National Chairman the same way he ran for President-- as the squeaky clean candidate. Well, he may have been squeaky, but he wasn't so clean. Zephyr Teachout who was head of internet outreach for the Dean campaign has revealed the campaign hired two political bloggers to say positive things about Dr. Dean at the price of $3,000 a month-- that's play for pay.

Reader Mitch Gore offers the perfect rebuttal:

To have someone who outs covert CIA operatives and endangers national security, try to lecture me about "'ethics' while not only getting his facts wrong, but spreading outright lies.. is a fine example of just how pathetic the mainstream media has become.

But the grand prize goes to Hugh Hewitt and Bill O'Reily's mutual "tsk tsk" joke of a show. Here's the transcrip. A choice quote:

HUGH HEWITT [AUTHOR]: No, Bill. In fact, the idea of payola is very dangerous. Bloggers on the take are very bad for the business of blogging. Blogging of real journalists, and people like Power Line and like InstaPundit and myself, we don't like it when Daily Kos shows up on the take of the Howard Dean campaign. Now Daily Kos says, this is one of the bloggers from the left, says he disclosed it, but not to the satisfaction of anyone who watches him. I didn't know.

O'REILLY: Aw, this is bunk. This is bull. Nobody knew about this.

HEWITT: That's right.

Nobody? ABC News knew about it, Salon knew about it, Online Journalism Review knew about it, the San Francisco Chronicle knew about it, Wired knew about it, New York Times Magazine knew about it, American Journalism Review knew about it, everyone who visited my site in the summer and fall of 2003 knew about it. And I got those links with about 5 minutes of Googling. But dumb-fuck O'Reilly and dumb-fuck Hewitt didn't know about it, so "nobody" knew about it.

I wonder what color the sky is in their make-believe fantasy world.

•  Kos

  Kos, we love you, and you don't have to prove it to any of us.  I read the site during Fall 2003, knew that you were working in some capacity for the Dean campaign, and didn't think twice of it.  Anyone else who was here would say the exact same thing, and we've all got your back.

  Has anyone in the media called to ask, even some vague question about this?  I mean, just wondering.

  by Mikey on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:48:54 PM PDT

  •  KOS gets noticed

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Once you reached that position ...

    Keep up the excellent work
    and continue hurting them.

    In 2005 - Be Liberal Support our Allies of Democracy on Human Rights, Environment, Gay Rights and Minorities & EU and UN Development Programs Third World & Our Friends

    by creve coeur on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:22:37 AM PDT

    •  Any press is good press?

      In this case? If you say so.

      Seriously, I would go on the warpath for Markos, and he doesn't even know me.  This crap is ridiculous, and it's just the same old crap- yelling loudly about someone else so no one points the spotlight on you.

      I'm talking about you, Novak/O'Reilly/WSJ/Insty.  Chickenshit bastards.

      by keirdubois on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:58:57 AM PDT

      •  It happens continuously

        Taking the heat off the real issues and Armstrong.

        They need the distraction, confusion and misinformation. Goebbels remember. Hit em back hard but don't spend all your time and effort on defense. As the saying goes: Best defense is offense!

        It's an opportunity offered, the KOS is taken serious -- as it should.

        In 2005 - Be Liberal Support our Allies of Democracy on Human Rights, Environment, Gay Rights and Minorities & EU and UN Development Programs Third World & Our Friends

        by creve coeur on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 02:02:38 AM PDT

        •  Distractions

          Absolutely: dailyKos is getting "Free Media" attention;

          The curious are connecting online to see what's up with dailyKos.com;

          But what do we have on the Front Page?

          Crap about the non-story.

          Please, kos, et. al., if you're still reading this thread, at least put the Armstrong Williams illeagal subsidy on the site.

          Thank you Armando; eveeryone else: GET BACK ON MESSAGE !!!

          by ROGNM on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 08:34:48 AM PDT

          •  I aggree

            Stop making a story out of a non story and concentrate the illegal actions of Armstron Williams, and the others out there who are being paid by taxpayers money to spread the White House's propaganda ..

            Thats the real story, How many " others " are there, and who are they ?
             

            by jackieca on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:09:59 PM PDT

      •  I wish they would Pile these fucks in butt-pyramid

        but novak would probably start sucking the others off. he is such a pice of shit. I live near DC and if I ever see him on the street I'll beat the fusk out of him. Traitorous scumbag that he is.

        by f furney on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 03:55:46 AM PDT

      •  I hope

        if they talk about Kos on the Sunday shows they at least have him on to defend himself.  A bunch of rightwingers talking about unethical Kos is just laughable.

        They picked the wrong person to go after in this case.  Kos can defend himself, and we'll be watching, and we send letters.

        by Unstable Isotope on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:42:03 AM PDT

      •  same old trick

        Kos,

        It's the political world of tit for tat, which the Republicans (and we ) have mastered.

        The fact is, people didn't even know what BLOGS were in 2003, at least most people didn't.  So it's not surprising O'Reilly hadn't heard of this information, since he probably hadn't even read a blog in 2003.

        Frankly I think this means that blogs have entered the mainstream, that they are "hurting" the conservatives, which means they will become a target.

        However, I think readers of blogs are a)more perceptive  b)more loyal than casual television news watchers(with the exception of Fox loyalists)
        c)well informed  d)willing to research the facts
        and e)uninterested in what Robert Novak or O'Reilly have to say.

        I also think this demonstrates how scared the Republicans are of Howard Dean's candidacy for the DNC.  It's a sideways way of discrediting him as well.  Beware....

        They have gone out of their way to demolish him.
        We should be prepared.

        by Carolyn on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:06:36 AM PDT

    •  I agree, to a point

      Blogs are wielding a lot of influence.  The fact that they are attacking, trying to discredit, shows their fear of a media they can't control.

      First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win--Gandhi

      by Shaniriver on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:43:02 AM PDT

    •  Yes - Call them out on their wankery and idiocy

      Like Jon Stewart - he called Crossfire out for hurting America.

      Then, they cancelled Crossfire, as Stewart notes here. Speaking truth to power worked.

      by Em on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:49:06 AM PDT

  •  If anyone needs it

    They can send this image to any doubter or member of the media.

    

    by Sandals on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:35:48 AM PDT

    •  Or link to the archived site ;-)

      http://www.dailykos.net/

      Precious corporate media people wake-up!

      :-X

      by Viktor on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:47:48 AM PDT

      •  Truth!

        But it's harder to distribute. I just cropped this out of it. If anyone wants, they can use my URL- I've got plenty of bandwidth.

        by Sandals on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:49:59 AM PDT

    •  Hey Look at the Kerning on That Font!

      I think that disclaimer was produced decades earlier on an IBM Selectric II in some office in Texas.

      Since it was written long before Howard Dean even got his medical degree, let alone ran for office, it cannot be authentic.

      Everyone who posted to this site should be investigated, fired, and sent to Gitmo!

      by GreenSooner on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:55:38 AM PDT

•  And dumb fuck

  Suellentrop who get a whole bunch more wrong.  

  by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:49:37 PM PDT

  •  blank slate

    Including the spelling of Kos's name (check out the bit about "Armstrong Zunida"--it was spelled that way twice when the piece first went up--the first one's been silently corrected but not the second--so it's not simply a typo). Thank god for them journalists and their accountability and fact-checking, unlike those irresponsible bloggers...

    by WendellGee on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:58:27 PM PDT

  •  Michelle Malkin.

    She knew it too. And she loves SBVT and Hannity.

    by Eternal Hope on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:15:10 AM PDT

•  this is total bullsh*t

  can we please, please not let these a**holes get away with making false equivalences yet again?  Don't ignore this.  We should fight it, rather than let this red herring deflate the real scandal.

  by southernblues on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:51:33 PM PDT

  •  MARKOS, THIS IS WHY I KEEP SAYING DEMS

    Need to buy media outlets.  Or you guys will have to put up with this shit endlessly.  Evertime a bad article comes out about Bush, miraculously a false equivalent will be found.  See, if Dems owned CNN, something like this could be be quashed by someone of like Blumenthal (sp?).  It will only get worse.  When Dean becomes the chair, they are going to try fuck him all the time with made up shit like this.  It is like when a republican gets caught for rape; to deflect from his action, GOP-FOX would start to talk about Clinton, or some democrat masturbating.  I thought this was going to happen to you sooner or later.  It's the MEDIA stupid (in a Carville type of way). And Markos, please stop calling FOX, FOX-they should be refered to by their proper name: GOP-FOX.  Let the media wars begin.  Soros, et al. need to buy  CNN/MSNBC.  Air America is not doing shit to counteract GOP-FOX's lies.

    by Kalki on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:19:14 AM PDT

    •  Agree.

      Lately I feel like I am drowning in their misinformation and lies and feel helpless to DO anything about it.

      They are like a tsunami of lies, washing away the truth and leaving it in a wreckage on the beach.

      The war is now won or lost in the media, since people can't read for themselves anymore.

      You are right, until we control the media or at least a share of it, we will lose every battle.

      by karenc13 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:02:21 AM PDT

    •  I don't think you have to buy the outlets...

      ...just the pundits (as Armstrong Williams proves).

      by scottp on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:35:17 AM PDT

    •  If Dean gets the DNC chair

      the Rethugs would be wise not to get personal, remember they have a base that is deathly afraid that homosexuality is contagious, and mellman thier new RNC chair happens to be under suspicion for being what their base hates and fears most.

      WE give them too much credit, stop appoligizing defending and start finding out who the "others" are that Armstrong is referring to ..  

      by jackieca on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:16:07 PM PDT

•  Minority Report

  Damn Kos, Suellentrop nails you on your FUTURE ethical lapses.

  If Moulitsas takes money from political candidates in 2006 and 2008 without telling you who's paying him, stop giving his recommended candidates your dollars.

  Who knew Suellentrop was a fortune teller? Can he predict if Slate will still suck in the future?

  by joejoejoe on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:51:36 PM PDT

  •  I guarantee

    Slate will suck in the future.

    by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:53:42 PM PDT

    •  asdf

      f Slate.  Salon is the place to be.  Worth every penny.
      

      by JoelK in AZ on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:03:29 AM PDT

    •  hey Armando -

      I may be reading too much into this, but you seem pissed off today.

      by b6 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:17:53 AM PDT

      •  For 2 Days Now n/t

        by Armando on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:22:29 AM PDT

        •  Anything we can do to help?

          Hookers, beer?

          by b6 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:26:50 AM PDT

          •  Always welcome

            pissed or not.  Heh.

            by Armando on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:32:20 AM PDT

            •  what's getting to you?

              not all this stuff today?

              by b6 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:34:11 AM PDT

              •  Very angry

                about this - the Media and the Right Wing - it's expected. And that's why this Zephyr person made me angry.

                Three explanations - idiot, unethical lying score settler or both.

                Also angry that many here did not see the damage wrought yesterday when this first came up.

                Zephyr must recant.

                by Armando on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:43:29 AM PDT

                •  As you know -

                  I'm new-ish, hence I'm not familiar with Zephyr. It obviously comes as no news that people suck, and it's certainly worse when their venom is unfairly aimed at you - or in this case Markos.  Zephyr recanting, even if it happens, won't really change much.  I do think, as I wrote earlier, this will be a semi-regular affair now.  If not Zephyr, or O'Reilly, somebody.  

                  It's infuriating, but it's the price of "playing with the big boys".
                  Me, I don't have the stomach, or the passion for politics on that level - and I don't know Markos, but I suspect and hope that he does.  He's come to represent something very important, and that's an achievement - now he's going to have to deal with the downside of the power he's earned.  That is the price of having your voice heard - facing the demons against which you speak.  

                  You are his friend.  The majority of us here don't know him yet we are his friends too.  Ultimately, you can do what you do for friends - offer advice, offer support, and wait for them to tell you what they need.  People like Zephyr are nothing in the larger scheme of things - this is just a chance to hone his media skills for the real battles yet to come.  He's made it this far, he'll find his own way.  Keep the faith.

                  by b6 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:59:36 AM PDT

      •  Subtle, wasn't it? The anger - I almost

        missed it.  

        by 2lucky on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:22:49 AM PDT

        •  It wasn't, I didn't

          by Agathena on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:57:13 AM PDT

          •  I was being ironic, Agathena.

            It was hard to miss.  

            by 2lucky on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:07:39 AM PDT

            •  Yes , you were being ironic

              but I wasn't because I wanted to point out
              that I got a taste of his misplaced sarcasm
              myself.
              

              by Agathena on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:34:29 AM PDT

      •  What's got me pissed

        FWIW, is that this whole shitstorm was started by someone WHOS'S SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF OUR OWN. She was so frickin' desperate to make sure she got into the WSJ, she made shit up just to be sure her quote survived the editors.

        Talk about the circular firing squad. You'd think someone who worked for Howard Dean, of all people, would know better.

        by flory on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:58:30 AM PDT

    •  The guarantee?

      Owned and operated by The Washington Post Companies.

      by rgilly on Sun Jan 16, 2005 at 05:19:14 AM PDT

•  In the open...

  Hell, even I knew it.

  by pacifica on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:51:43 PM PDT

•  You tell 'em, Kos.

  Glad you're not Kerrying this one.

  by concernedcanuck on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:52:07 PM PDT

•  Them's fightin' words

  I'm lovin' it!

  by PsiFighter37 on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:54:08 PM PDT

  •  Dou you think

    the Wall Street Journal will let Kos write his own defense?

    by Unstable Isotope on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:45:17 AM PDT

•  I can't believe anyone gives a shit

  Not a sleight on you, kos. You should do everything to uphold your reputation, and clear up the facts, and to emphasize the fact that you've been honest, open, and clear with everyone.

  But seriously, why the heck are these pundits riding your jock so aggressively? Are they that insecure about their "professionalism"?

  by danthrax on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:56:08 PM PDT

  •  asdf

    knee-jerk modern fucking media desire to appear to be  balanced by going after a lefty like they had to with the righty.

    the comparative merit of each sides action be damned....they must APPEAR to be balanced.  truth be damned. facts be damned.

    god how i loathe the MSM.....not even counting FAUX

    by JoelK in AZ on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:59:18 PM PDT

    •  Bingo.

      Well, that's what the Reality-Based Community is saying tonight, Jim.  For a response, we go to our correspondant in Fantasyland.

      by Gareth on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:23:38 AM PDT

  •  Smoke and Mirrors

    to divert attn from who in their ranks is the next Armstrong Williams.

    Because you know there's more.

    Maybe we should have a pool. Hmmmmmm.

    by boadicea on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:00:02 AM PDT

    •  That's the sig

      I like to see.

      by Armando on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:03:57 AM PDT

      •  Inspired to make sure I keep on msg...

        I've kept reiterating it over at her blog as well, though she's not engaged in the discussion at the moment.

        Probably found a nice fainting couch where she can put a cool cloth on her head and wonder how people could so misunderstand her.

        by boadicea on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:08:30 AM PDT

        •  Just Visited Her Blog

          briefly, and held back on the temptation of shredding her SOUL in a comment. I decided NEVER to go back there, not to drum up her 'hits,' and not to stroke her pathetic ego. Let her rot in Hell alone. She's no better than Alan Colmes, serving up softballs so that the Right Wing can hit one out of the park.

          Fuck her and her blog.

          by RNinNC on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:38:37 AM PDT

      •  I Must Be A Geek

        When I read your sig, boadicea, the first thing I thought of was....

        "Edith Keeler must die!"

        by GreenSooner on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:01:24 AM PDT

        •  Have a 4

          For the Star Trek/Harlan Ellison reference.

          Viva la geekdom!!!

          by boadicea on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:53:15 AM PDT

    •  Precisely

      Guess you've really, really made it now, Markos.

      by keirdubois on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:01:15 AM PDT

    •  My money's on Novak. <n/t>

      by sidnora on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:09:59 AM PDT

      •  I think he's dessert.

        He and Tugboat Annie may very well have been paid, but I don't think it will have been as direct. They appear to be believers preaching to other believers.

        No, we want someone in the minority community they wanted to make sure was on their side.  I don't know who the playas are well enough to say who the candidates might be.

        by boadicea on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:21:44 AM PDT

    •  They are running scared

      The mainstream media is afraid of the blogs. When the right wing blogs went after Dan Rather and CBS on the TANG story, these assholes could not praise them enough. They even went as far to say, Tom Brokaw saw the light and that is why he retired when he did, because he realized the "evening news" was no match for the internet blogs. Corporate America owns the media. Right wing blogs pose no threat to them. However, the blogs on the left threaten them. To assume Armstrong Williams was the only pundit paid by our government is crazy. There are others, many others, and they are protecting them all, or protecting themselves. Realizing the power of the blogs makes any blog that opposes you dangerous. Most of the people on this blog supported Dean, so we don't care. Their efforts to try to discredit this blog ring hollow, especially considering the source. We will not be stopped, we don't care what those idiots say anyway. They are running scared, and it makes me happy.

      by Vera Lofaro on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:31:36 AM PDT

      •  its the typical

        dont beleive this blog , they are all dirty tactits.

        This is nonthing more then a pre emtive strike from them,which leads me to beleive there is defanitly some big fish that took payola from taxpayers in the armstronggate. and yes, I do mean GATE, we need to get on this now and find out who the others are.

        by jackieca on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:28:46 PM PDT

    •  They opened the door...

      shouldn't we be looking at who paid whom what from their campaigns?

      by rcvanoz on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:08:14 PM PDT

  •  they want the average person to think:

    "Oh, I guess Bush did pay off someone to promote his plan, and I guess that's wrong, but I mean, the Democrats were doing it too, so that's just how politics is.  Dirty business, but they're all dirty, so you gotta vote for someone, right?"

    I wonder how long the WSJ had to dig around to come up with this one.

    by Delirium on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:23:30 AM PDT

    •  yep agree

      I have heard that about politics in general too that "...they are all liars" so somehow that absolves the person of making educated choices in selecting which media and which political candidates have merit

      for sure the Rethugs thrive on fear, ignorance, and apathy - they just feed all three through the MSM and Fox

      by christhughes on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:28:55 AM PDT

  •  I think they're scared

    of the blogs.  Blogs (and Kos) are ascendant and traditional media is descendant.  This scares them.  Plus, they don't really understand what it is we're doing here so all they can do is fit it into their box.

    by Unstable Isotope on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:47:18 AM PDT

    •  I agree

      Plus, they can control their corporate message(the media) but they can't control the blogs.

      That scares them.  It's called Democracy.

      What I wonder is this--how come CBS is firing people, but Fox News can say whatever foul lies it wants, and they are never held accountable?

      Also, great editorial a couple of days ago in the Washington Post wondering why Bush's people haven't been fired or held accountable...anyone remember "weapons of mass deception?"

      Kos, the thing is...the more you defend and we all defend, etc, the more of a frenzy gets worked up.  It seems the desire of Fox/Novak etc, to keep people in a frenzy over things like this, thus drawing more attention to it.  You're angry because they're wrong and you want the truth to be recognized and it's frustrating.  

      However, you know that you were ethical.  That is ultimately what is most important.

      by Carolyn on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:13:32 AM PDT

      •  agree - thats the whole idea

        Kos and all Kossians should just keep on keeping on - the more we and others talk about it we legitimize the false moral equivalence

        I dont even know that LTEs are a good idea

        just find the next Armstrong Williams as somebody else pointed out
        

        by christhughes on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:34:48 AM PDT

•  Fuck Bill O'Reilly

  And I hope he sues me for saying that. Then, I can write a book titled "Fuck Bill O'Reilly" and really get the gravy train rolling.

  by Devin on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:56:11 PM PDT

  •  Shut up!

    Shut up!  Shut up!  Shut up!

    I'm going to shoot you between the head, if you don't shut up!

    by Bill O'Lie-ly on Sat Jan 15th, 2005 at 00:00:01 PST

    by zzmarkzz on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:06:24 AM PDT

  •  That Thought

    just gave me a permanent "soft-on". . .

    by BigOkie on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:41:55 AM PDT

    •  Oh boy...

      ...I had an awesome double entendre there and didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. Well, what can I say? It was late and I was tired.

      by Devin on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:42:24 PM PDT

•  I know the charges.....

  have to be responded to and the hypocrisy exposed. But no one here is buying a word of that bullshit. I think this whole ruckus just shows how strong DailyKos and the bloggers are getting. If those damn  network talking heads ever shut up maybe America could start tackling its real problems.

  by babbitt on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:57:26 PM PDT

•  Their idea of reality is fantasy

  Novak, O'Reilly and these other pundits do not live in the world of reality but only in some fantasy world they have created. They would not understand logic and truth if they were beaten repeatedly over the head with the knowledge stick.

  We support you Kos wholeheartedly. You have energized us and given us a forum for the exchange of ideas with the freedom to debate, plan, strategize, organize, and vent.

  This site is a godsend to myself and multitudes.
  Thank you for your hard work and your dedication.

  by wishingwell on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:57:31 PM PDT

•  Who knew about Armstrong Williams, eh?

  And when did they know?

  by boadicea on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:57:45 PM PDT

•  This is pissing me off...

  Not that I really care about this topic, but this is symptomatic of how republicans play ball.

  Whenever they are hit by a legitimate scandal, they manufacture a scandal for the other side, and pressure the press to give it equal time. Which the press sheepishly does.

  We have to find a way of dealing better with this. Because these republicans are good at keeping control of the debate, and diverting when the topic turns to their dislike.

  by FightOn on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:59:01 PM PDT

  •  You are right, but...........

    This is the way they play ball, but we have to be smarter. We know it, and complaining about it does no good, we have to figure a way to beat them at their own game. The old saying goes, "any publicity is good publicity". So who care what they are saying, they noticed, and it disturbs them, and that is good, we have gotten under their skin. If we complain they will pull out their old line, "there they go whining again". It is like the bully in the playground, teasing, just to get a rise out of you, when you ignore the teasing, and go after the bully in another way, the bully backs down. I think we have discoverd the "other way". Keep on blogging, keep on investigating, and we will win in the end. Didn't David bring down Golaith with a single stone?

    by Vera Lofaro on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:41:17 AM PDT

•  Their Sky is Colored Red

  Maybe we need to dance with them individually to appreciate their moves.

  by Gooserock on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:59:17 PM PDT

•  Oh, You Mean The Librul Media Knew About It!

  Nobody knew. Just the reality-based community is all.

  The faith-based community, OTOH, was totally clueless.

  Who knew?

  by Paul Rosenberg on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:59:35 PM PDT

•  Obvious

  I wonder what color the sky is in their make-believe fantasy world.

  I'm sure the sky is black and the stars are a steady light, since they are way outside the atmosphere.
  

  by Sorceress Sarah on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:00:50 AM PDT

•  What color?

  what color Kos? that would most certainly be brown, as in the shirts they are obviously now pulling over their own eyes.  This search for "equivalence" is absolutely disgusting and indicative a truly scary turn our political culture has taken.  No error on the right can be unmatched.  Every rightist sin has a leftist doppelganger, larger and more worthy of attention.  No WMDs? piffle... we got a Rathergate.    Armstrong Williams? pshaw... what about that Kos fellow, hmmmm?

  That the muting and obfuscation of all criticism of the right has drifted into the center, as reflected in this Slate piece, should frighten us all.  Ornicus's warnings about the "elimination of liberals" is taking place in the discursive realm, as made evident by the rising spectre of false equivalences.  

  Either we fight back now, or we're truly toast. Looks like you've gotten off to a fiery start.  Keep it comin'. . .

  by chubbiebee on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:02:28 AM PDT

•  Don't ever give up, Kos!!

  Our media is an utter disgrace.  

  The lack of fact-checking on ANYTHING is simply unacceptable.  This story is a prime example of how little fact-checking they do.  

  For fuck's sake the WSJ even got your name wrong...

  Where do we go from here?  How the fuck do we win back this country when this is the type of bullshit we have to eat on a daily basis?

  by Beelzebud on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:02:57 AM PDT

•  they are fucking with the wrong person

  Kos needs to get on all the sunday talk shows armed with a laptop and wipe the floor with these assholes.    

  by kennyc on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:03:55 AM PDT

  •  No Sh ! t

    I can see it now.

    -Kos walks on to the show
    -Opens laptop, boots up, googles
    -Shows all of the articles demonstrating he was above board and transparent just as above and contrasts it with B.O's lies.

    Then Kos comments; "Now, back to the story. Who else is George Bush secretly bribing with taxpayer money, besides Williams, to push his propoganda?"

    by Alumbrados on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:34:17 AM PDT

    •  David Broder suspicious of laptop.

      What is this funny new invention?  The Dean is not impressed.  Tim Russert nods solemnly.  Robert Novak's teeth glisten as he repeats lies about Markos.  Andrea Mitchell sagely observes that although Markos disclosed everything and was not paid by the government, it is oddly reminiscent of the Armstrong Williams story.  Russert agrees.  George Will sneers at the idea of some guy with a laptop knowing anything about politics.  Russert smiles.

      by daria g on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 03:09:38 AM PDT

•  Congratulations!

  Actually, I love watching these assholes hem and haw over your so-called "covert" shilling. Those of us who 'know' you find it hysterical and idiotic (along with hypocritical, etc). Those who don't know any better are either:

  A) Dittoheads who would drink cyanide from O'Reilly's teat if offered, OR

  B) People who don't know who will now take the time to find out O'Reilly is full of shit.

  Screw Group A!

  A WARM welcome to REALITY for the Group B!!!

  by RNinNC on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:03:59 AM PDT

•  FOIA vs Google

  no big difference

  by pvjeff on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:07:21 AM PDT

  •  They Both Have 4 Unique Letters!

    And since letters are just arbitrary typographical marks, why, that's no difference at all!

    by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:16:41 AM PDT

•  We're missing something here

  This isn't just an attack on kos and Jerome Armstrong.

  It's an attack on all of us.

  This is the right-wing's attempt to discredit this site, everything that is said or discussed or revealed on it, and by implication, all of us who are here and our myriad efforts to reform the Democratic Party, monitor Republican thuggery and thievery, and bring the troops home.

  It's not really about Armstrong Williams, when you think about it. This is a classic attempt at silencing.

  That is why the thing has me so goddamned angry. The willful misinterpretation of fact - and the baldness of O'Lielly and Hewitt's lying. The inexcusable treason of Zephyr Teachout.

  I am a nice man, really; those of you who have met me know this. I usually wish nobody harm. But I want Zephyr Teachout's career to be ruined. I want her name to be mud, her presence in Democratic circles unwanted, herself made an example of.

  This deep anger is rare. But she is playing the part of the person who goes to HUAC, names names, and plays innocent the entire time, claiming that any harm that comes to anyone isn't her fault.

  We need to not take any of this lying down. It's not about kos. It's about us.

  by eugene on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:08:41 AM PDT

  •  And it's

    not just kossacks at risk.  Clearly the corporatists are afraid of the populist potential of the entire blogosphere.  Winger bloggers may not see it, but their voices are equally at stake.

    by CaliBlogger on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:34:08 AM PDT

    •  but do we want the blogosphere to have power?

      I'm all for the blogosphere being a discussing forum, but as a power base, it's a bit scary.  I'd trust RNC and DNC insiders to argue and make deals and whatnot before I'd trust the country to a coalition of the FreeRepublic and DailyKos.

      by Delirium on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:00:13 AM PDT

      •  But the power is not

        in the "blogs" per se. Web Logs are only a tool.  What little faith I have left in me, I place in the power of the free dissemination of ideas, with blogs as the latest, most effective representation of that concept.  THIS is what the corporatists most fear.

        by CaliBlogger on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:13:38 AM PDT

        •  that I'm ambivalent on

          I suppose I'm a bit of an elitist, not so much because I think the average person is not capable of making good decisions, but because I don't think the average person wants to bother to make good decisions.  Populism has historically meant, and still seems to mean today, demagoguery and sound-bytes, because that's what sells.  Intellectuals may think through issues at length and write books and articles, but nobody reads them.

          I do think the free dissemination of ideas can help somewhat, especially if it breaks the stranglehold of television news.  But I don't see the blogs as a good step towards that—the online equivalent of some sort of newsmagazine would be my preference, if we can convince people to read them.  Blogs are, for the most part, too short and soundbyte-ish to really do anything but oversimplify and mislead.  If you come here, everything the Republicans have ever done is evil and fascist and their policies all obviously wrong as can be pointed out in two paragraphs; and if you go to the Free Republic, the same is true of everything the Democrats have ever done.

          Say what you want about undemocratic backroom dealing, but undemocratic backroom dealing is what got us Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Jimmy Carter.

          by Delirium on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:19:38 AM PDT

          •  Reversing your points sequentially

             Blogs are, for the most part, too short and soundbyte-ish to really do anything but oversimplify and mislead.

            This is patently false. Particularly in comparison with current televised news coverage which is substance light and image heavy.

            I'm relatively new to the political blogosphere, as in October 2004.

            What drew me in was the substance of the discussion in the blogosphere. You do have to be aware of the signal to noise ratio, but I give dkos, for example, higher marks on that than I give CNN.

            But I don't see the blogs as a good step towards that--the online equivalent of some sort of newsmagazine would be my preference, if we can convince people to read them.

            So, to be blunt, why are you here?

            by boadicea on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:20:47 AM PDT

          •  not all true

            Blogs are, for the most part, too short and soundbyte-ish to really do anything but oversimplify and mislead.

            no I dont agree - I think that a blog will give you multiple points of reference (such as yours) whereas TV and Radio "news" media stick to a simple script that oversimplifies and relies on societal myths and stereotypes. The blog also relies on its members to be information providers, compilers, and consumers. As with all media as consumers we just need to be more informed about what we are consuming.

            If you come here, everything the Republicans have ever done is evil and fascist and their policies all obviously wrong as can be pointed out in two paragraphs;

            I personally dont agree with that - Lincoln did some OK things as did (gasp) Nixon and Eisenhower. But you would probably get consensus on this site that the current republican administration and the GOP on the whole is so morally deficient and hypocritical that they really can do very little that is right.

            Say what you want about undemocratic backroom dealing, but undemocratic backroom dealing is what got us....

            I think maybe you are compalining a bit about what I call liberal mushy-headedness as well - I accept that effective politicians do have to compromise on occasion and do back room deals. I can tell you I much prefer the tree-hugging, womyn rage against patriarchy kind of mushyheadedness to the idiocy of the rightwing (apologies to Julia Butterfly). But backroom deals that result in favors to the few who dont need them vs favors to the people that do need them are not "moral equivalents"

            by christhughes on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 08:24:09 AM PDT

          •  Blogosphere as Polis

            Blogs are, for the most part, too short and soundbyte-ish to really do anything but oversimplify and mislead.

            I don't agree or disagree. Yes, some of the comments are short..quirky...simplified. However, I've also seen full blown discussions between people who do not agree but manage to discuss issues in coherent and thoughtful ways. Historically, you have had both through the use of the polis.

            "'The single greatest political innovation of the ancient Greeks was the establishment of the polis, or 'city-state. In the Mycenean age, the Greeks lived in small, war-oriented kingdoms, but for reasons unknown to us, they abandoned their cities and their kingdoms sometime between 1200 and 1100 BC. From that point onwards, they lived in either sedentary or nomadic tribal groups; the period is called the Greek Dark Ages and lasted until sometime between 800 and 700 BC. The tribal or clan units of the dark ages slowly grew into larger political units at the end of this period; beginning around 800 BC, trade began to dramatically accelerate between the peoples of Greece. Marketplaces grew up in Greek villages and communities began to gather together into large defensive units, building fortifications to use in common. On this foundation, the Greek-speaking people who lived on the Greek peninsula, the mainland, and the coast of Asia Minor, developed political units that were centrally based on a single city . These city-states were independent states that controlled a limited amount of territory surrounding the state. The largest of these city-states, for instance, was Sparta, which controlled more than 3000 square miles of surrounding territory."

            If you come here, everything the Republicans have ever done is evil and fascist and their policies all obviously wrong as can be pointed out in two paragraphs; and if you go to the Free Republic, the same is true of everything the Democrats have ever done.

            The blogosphere is bigger than dKos and FreeRepublic, which is why many people read more blogs than the two...to see what different people are saying and thinking.

            I think it's part of the experimental process that is our country.

            by kredwyn on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 10:42:26 AM PDT

      •  oh yeah, what is it?

        Do we want liberty through grass root power or do we want grass root power through liberty?

        Who decides how much liberty we get? Liberty imposed through governmental (RNC and DNC) power or should grass root power decide who can impose Liberty through governmental (RNC and DNC) power?

        May be I am confused, who knows.

        by mimi on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:30:27 AM PDT

        •  but will grass-roots power get us liberty?

          Grass-roots power can just as easily get us the opposite.  Demagoguery can lead people in a lot of directions.

          by Delirium on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:53:49 PM PDT

  •  And the winning answer is.......

    This is spite-driven shit by people with an agenda. We need to take this seriously, because this non-story has wings and much of what has been written is obviously false.

    The question is why and for what reason.

    I think it's less about Dean and more about Kos's influence in certain parts of the party. Think of it as the Michael Moore factor. A lot of party people resent Moore's prominance and can't miss an opportunity to run him down because he's not part of the club.

    So why not feed some shit to Slate and ride the back of this non-story. Except of course, everything is archived.

    by stevegilliard on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 04:52:40 AM PDT

•  Symptoms of a Deeper Disease

  I think we get to look at all these reactions as characteristic symptoms of how these people operate. It's not quite an ink-blot test, but pretty close, since there's nothing of substance there for them to be bloviating about.

  That's what makes Novak's response so totally precious! I mean, back when satire was still possible, someone like Paul Krassner would have put those words in his mouth.

  And the full beauty of Suellentrop is the smug certainty of sober analysis, ripped to shreds by Atrios.  Such surreal pomposity.

  There's such a subdued manner on the surface that were it not for the subject matter, our sensitivity to it, and Atios's charming little rant, we might go for years without realizing that, yup, it's a chronic case of surreal pomposity.

  So this is an opportunity for us to see all the specimens on display. A menagerie of fools. All are invited. All are present in the massive effort to turn yet another Bush Administration crime into a story about perfidious Democrats.

  by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:11:20 AM PDT

  •  a deeper and chronic disease

    which isn't perceived as a disease, but a regular reasonable healthy condition.

    Leave the US and be dependent on Europe or Asian News Media for a while and you will be able to perceive the conditions as what they are, pathological.

    It's like living in the "ghetto", after a while living in there, you don't see the dirt anymore and feel at home.

    Getting out of it, you can't understand how you could have ever "overlooked" it.

    by mimi on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:24:33 AM PDT

•  You've got to go -

  on Air America, or make a TV appearance or something.  This is just infuriating.  It's some Baghdad Bob shit - ridiculous.

  by b6 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:13:08 AM PDT

•  Kos

  I don't think you should focus so much on the fact that you disclosed it (I sure remember it), but that you were paid as a technical consultant, not to promote the campaign on your blog.  That is the critical point that you need to hammer home.  You weren't hired to do PR on your blog, which is what they are all saying.

  by Katydid on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:13:49 AM PDT

  •  Congratulations, Kos

    Consulting is not the same as astroturfing.

    Kos kept his independence voice while offering full disclosure. I think the implication they are hinting at is the DailyKos is some sort of bought and paid for propaganda arm, and it's clearly not. Kos wasn't paid to shill. Williams was. Read the damn contract.

    Jesus... so much slander, so little time.

    And, Kos, this is great fucking news! You're now important enough to attack. And, personally, being on this website until 4 am has made me realize that I care enough about this shit to get involved in local politics. Conservatives are the only ones who seem to understand Dean's potential (which is why they tried to sink his bid) and now it seems they've given you their blessing as well. Congrats!  
     

    by al Isqut on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:50:54 AM PDT

  •  Agreed, Agreed, Agreed

    Kos, please consider the following:

    My understanding is that you rendered a technical service. Not advice. Not strategy. I believe you have an expertise in website development prior to dKos, correct? That expertise was the basis of the contract and the whole of the service rendered. That needs to be made extremely clear.

    It seems to me like all this bullshit stems from this woman imagining a great Machiavellian strategy to influence you. That's funny, because if I hire someone for a database project or fix my toilet, I don't assume that I am buying their political loyalty.

    I think you need to dismiss Zephyr's allegations as her own fantasies of influence--and proactively state what the contractual relationship was for: technical services, not endorsement. This was clear to everyone except, apparently, to Zephyr.

    I think you are expecting that the truth to be an affirmative defense--which it is--but I think a more actively defined response/narrative would be a good idea.

    Like chess, the response should be thought of in terms of a few moves down the line: they are after you, but you will survive without much of a scratch because we know you did the right thing. If anything, new Dems might hear of dKos through this if it gets more play on TV--which would be a good thing.

    But the real target is Dean and trying to establish FUD about the reform candidate and distract from their own real payola. Turn the guns on their real agenda and attack. Confront. Challenge. Demand retractions. Take a page from their book of constant offenseand don't be nice about it, especially if this snowballs for much longer.

    They need to realize if they come after you, the facts had better be straight because you will defend yourself. And legally, if need be. This is a test case of smearing blogs and needs to be thought of in those terms. If you don't fight back, they will smear you at will.

    Once you establish the exculpatory facts, it seems to me that the lazy, establishment media needs to be vociferously indicted here.
    

    by Tropicana on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:00:38 AM PDT

    •  Agree about emphasizing Technical Consulting

      The amount of money involved supports this. $3000/month sounds like a payment for a technical consultant. $240,000 sounds like a bribe or a payoff.

      by lesliet on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 03:18:45 AM PDT

  •  Plus

    Since Kos is the leader of the leftwing blogsphere now, that choice looks pretty prescient.

    by Unstable Isotope on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:52:37 AM PDT

  •  yep I had no idea that Kos was a consultant

    I had never noticed any agenda from Kos regd Dean on this web site or even when he was on Air America

    I know that he spoke regd DemParty he spoke in terms of status quo vs reform. That much I know about his views.

    I dont care how wonderful Dean is I would not have voted for him. I was a Kerry guy and I still am

    by christhughes on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 08:35:20 AM PDT

•  TOP TEN REASONS TO GET OVER YOURSELF, KOS

  1. Nobody knows what blogs are, except bloggers.
     
  2. All the lefty bloggers love you, all the nazis hate you.
     
  3. The nazis don't matter
     
  4. This has already blown over.
     
  5. So you're a CROOK, hunh? Well, shit, THAT'S a relief!!! I was beginning to worry ya might be a freakin' SAINT! We can't sell THAT!
     
  6. Welcome to the Bigs. You are now officially a political player. Otherwise, why bother trashing you?
     
  7. One word: POLITICS. (Ewww.)
     
  8. So, now ya know why most people won't TOUCH politics. (Eeeeew.)
     
  9. Just be thankful you never dodged the draft, or got a BJ from an intern.
     
  10. Uh, look, dude, like, we're RIGHT behind ya on this, but, uh, the, uh, draft thing...? No problems there, right? Cool, cool, we knew that... ...and the, er, BJ?

  .
  CHEER UP!

  "Some Amusing News"
  .

  by cosa nostradamus on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:16:02 AM PDT

  •  re:

    This has already blown over

    Um, ya, just what they said 'bout the Swifties ain't it?  A Repug lie isn't dead 'til you've cut off its head, burned it, cursed it, scattered it's ashes to the wind, and then be ready to repeat the entire process, ad infinitum.

    Sad, but true.

    by CaliBlogger on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:27:20 AM PDT

    •  This is an offensive game

      you have to find their weakness and exploite it.

      by Bryce in Seattle on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:42:27 AM PDT

      •  SORRY

        
        But who the Hell goes to blogs for REPORTING?

        It's all ABOUT opinion, and linking to the facts, not FINDING them! If some blogger does know something, or stumbles across something, then they're ONE source, and not necessarily a reliable one.

        Every blogger's agenda is pretty clear, as to broad outlines. I don't think "objectivity" is even an issue: There is none, on a blog. You read the blogger's opinion, and then you click on his links. THEN you question the sources.

        But I've never seen much of anything that I'd say ORIGINATED from a blog as primary source. Finding obscure stories and posting the links, yeah. But that's all. Only a wingnut uses blogs as his only source of news. It's a watercooler, not a newspaper, the "blogosphere." Get real.

        Trying to apply "journalistic ethics" is ridiculous. I mean, it would be a nice standard to set for yourself, but you're not a journalist, you can't be HELD to it.. Unless you're like, at the ground zero of something, typing away.

        It's laughable, these six-and seven-figure corporate prettyboys and paid crypto-nazi propagandists feigning outrage over this. Shit, every goddamned one of their asses is bought and paid for, over-generously. With boocoo strings attached: More every day.

        I don't even watch TV news any more: I skim dozens of legitimate newspapers online, check out twenty-odd blogs a day, and listen to NPR. The rest of'em are WHORES. It's like a bunch of freakin' HOOKERS mocking a "nice" girl's skimpy dress. SHUT THE FUCK UP, already! DAMN!
        

        by cosa nostradamus on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:52:44 AM PDT

        •  Not exactly,

          While you're describing most blogs, one thing even THEY do is to keep bringing up stories that have gone down the memory hole elsewhere.  

          Others post first person info, including pictures.  

          The most useful ones provide analysis that is outside the advertisement media's comfort zone.  

          It's not just a watercooler.  If someone spoke around a watercooler the way I blog, they'd assume I was a homeless man/prophet and haul my ass away.  

          by Grand Moff Texan on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 11:48:22 AM PDT

          •  YEAH, BUT...

            Here's my point: BLOGGING IS NOT JOURNALISM

            Blogs are not usually a PRIMARY source, in journalistic terms.

            Bloggers are not bound by the canons of ethics for journalism.

            People who don't realize this are IDIOTS. The people, paid professionals in the media, who don't realize this, are UNBELIEVABLE IDIOTS!!!

            by cosa nostradamus on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:28:55 PM PDT

    •  JUST JOKING!

      But, seriously, Kos ain't Kerry, and blogging isn't running for President. Most people won't give a shit about this: The rest will divide along party lines. Kos should know whom to massage. I wouldn't worry about it: If anything, the media noise will help blogging. Nobody trusts THOSE bastards: If THEY hate ya, that's GOOD! Just ask Dubya, heh-heh.

      by cosa nostradamus on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:33:23 AM PDT

•  Email to Suellentrop and Slate:

  Markos Moulitsas:  Paid by: Dean campaign (a private organization)
  Jerome Armstong: Paid by: Dean campaign (a private organization)
  Armstrong Williams: Taxpayer dollars

  Markos Moulitsas: For the following activities: Technical consulting
  Jerome Armstong: For the following activities: Technical consulting
  Armstrong Williams: For the following activities: Shilling for "No Child Left Behind" Act

  Markos Moulitsas: Prophylactic measures taken: Prominent disclaimer on website
  Jerome Armstong: Prophylactic measures taken: Put website on hiatus
  Armstrong Williams: Prophylactic measures taken: None - concealed the money he received

  Slate/Chris Suellentrop: Credibility: 0

  by CaliBlogger on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:17:39 AM PDT

  •  Here's The Link

    [e-mail]

    Already sent him your comment AND a link to this discussion. Of course, he'll never respond, that's the way the media works when faced with reality nowadays...

    by RNinNC on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:47:57 AM PDT

    •  Sullentrop is being paid off by the GOP

      I think that's a safe assumption given the tenor of his piece. Until he discloses how much he was paid when and by whom in the Bush administration, we can only assume that he's receiving payola. Since this is now being widely discussed, I think it merits a story.

      Will Slate being doing any pieces about the "debate" about how much money its Washington bureau chief is being paid by the GOP?

      by Aexia on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:59:51 AM PDT

      •  Sullentrollop sounds more like it. n/t

        by Anderson Republican on Sun Jan 16, 2005 at 05:02:32 AM PDT

•  "Their make-believe fantasy world"

  is running the show.  

  And the free world, for that matter.

  I hate to say it, but I think Armando's take on this is absolutely correct: we can't let this one go.  

  The intent here is clearly to discredit Dean's and this site's integrity and their populist appeal.  They're afraid of us.  That's good news.

  But, we can't let the Dean/Internets manufactured mini "scandal" stand; I've no doubt Armstrong is the tip of the Bush payola iceberg.  

  I can't fathom how we here can let Rove again get away with painting us, in broad strokes, with his own utterly corrupt brush.

  by 2lucky on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:18:39 AM PDT

•  Yeah!!! Go for the jugular.

  The truth.
  They can't handle the truth.
  I hope they all choke on it someday soon.

  That is unless they're busying testifying in regards to being paid with taxpayer's coin to shill for the Bush Administration. Then they can choke on the truth later.

  by mentaldebris on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:18:44 AM PDT

•  And a big TY

  to DavidNYC for the easy to read breakdown.

  by CaliBlogger on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:19:37 AM PDT

•  Green. The sky is green. (w/ cash) n/t

  by Tom Kertes on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:21:50 AM PDT

  •  I think it's purple

    with big swirling diamonds.

    by Unstable Isotope on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:55:04 AM PDT

•  No consolation

  but everyone will know who you are and maybe some of them will get informed. There isn't anybody who has read your site regularly that doesn't know how you feel about Howard Dean, taking money to say something you were going to say for free is just smart. Plus you told everybody about your affiliation so just go with the flow.Which doesn't mean don't fight back but we believe in you and so will a lot more by the time this is finished.

  by redrobin on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:22:10 AM PDT

  •  Wrong

    
    Not paid anything to say what he believes.  Paid to help with ideas on Internet outreach.

    Please stop believing Zephyr Teachout's dishonesty.  I know you meant well but  . . .

    by Armando on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:24:00 AM PDT

    •  Sorry

      How about I don't Believe Kos politics were bought or that his ethics or morals were compromised or that he felt he couldn't have a go at Dean if Dean deserved it.And yes I should of been more careful about how I wrote my ealier piece. I know Kos has said that they basically didn't take up any of his ideas anyway.And I am aware that there is a difference between giving advice and writing about someone.And all he did was give advice.

      Alright is that better Armando:)

      by redrobin on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:13:40 AM PDT

•  I wasn't around summer/fall of 2003

  but I knew about it.

  Kos has mentioned his technical work for the Dean campaign several times since I started reading dKos daily in July, 2004.

  The media's laziness is on full display. But first, I want to address Zephyr.

  There are ways to kill a story. One way would have been for Zephyr to come out immediately and say that she had been misinterpreted and clarify her statement. She has yet to do so.  The onus is on her to make an apology.  If she was misinterpreted, she needs to get media training.  However, IMHO, since she has yet to issue a sufficient apology, she should never be hired again by a Dem campaign.  

  The media got this completely wrong, but Zephyr is not a victim nor should we not criticize her.  We ought to target the media for false equivalence reporting, but Zephyr has a responsibility. She needs to be held accountable for her statements.  If she had any integrity, she'd have posted as soon as the story hit with a clear, firm statement that she was wrong.

  If the media had any integrity, they'd stop it with the lies.  Fox News can't be even begin to pretend to be 'fair and balanced' if it can't even be factual and accurate.  What gets me is that DC insiders, reporters, consultants, and such read The Note every morning. They all knew that the WSJ article was misleading (at best), and yet so many continued to parrot the BS.  I find it difficult to believe that none of the staffers at some of the news orgs that have done stories on this are being completely above the board themselves on this.  Some of these staffers must have read The Note.  Or they could have done some research on their own and checked dKos for Kos's response before they went on the air. That includes those on CNN, FNC, and elsewhere.  

  In any case, this whole situation is a perfect example of the usual media disease, which has been around for so long, but has gotten really bad in the last decade or so. The media disease, of course, would be that the rush to be "fair and balanced" often leads to ignoring the usual requirements to be "factual and accurate."

  by Newsie8200 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:25:12 AM PDT

•  As a political consultant...

  I don't expect you to disclose your clients--confidentiality is important in our business, and we don't like to shout it from the rooftops.  I work in consulting, too, but I don't blab about my firm's clients.  (caveat--if their were a proverbial "bottom rung" on the ladder, I'd be about 4 rungs below that.)

  Anyway, maybe you should consider the following permanent disclaimer for the website:

  "The DailyKos is a Reform Democrat web log. The operator is a political consultant with various and sundry clients, so take his opinions with a grain of salt.  Should you mindlessly follow his commands like some sort of labotomized beast of burden, well, then, you're an idiot.  Please feel free to send your silly outraged concerns to:

  Robert Novak
  c/o Beelzebub, Ltd.
  1 Douchetastic Ave.
  Bald Knob, AR 34583

  by LiberalVirginian on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:30:26 AM PDT

  •  They just don't get it

    What we are, what we're doing here.  We are not here taking orders from Kos on what to do and who to vote for.  We respect & admire Kos and value his opinions, but his views did not effect mine on Dean or Clark or Kerry.

    by Unstable Isotope on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:01:37 AM PDT

    •  Oh, they get it alright

      And on some level, it scares the shit out them.

      That's why they go to all the trouble of spreading their lies, distortions, half-truths and smears.

      They've never had widespread and organized opposition to their monopoly over the public discourse up until political activists of the left discovered the power of the Internet.

      And they are doing their best to make sure that it this relatively new medium is discredited in the eyes of the public before it exposes their dishonesty, lies, and propaganda any more than what it already has.

      by Progressive on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 06:22:38 AM PDT

  •  A 4 for you for "Douchetastic" (n/t)

    A word after a word after a word is power. -- Margaret Atwood

    by tmo on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:58:13 AM PDT

•  This is the kind of crap

  that causes my brain to blue screen.  The fact that they can actually get away with throwing up this smoke screen to defelct attention from a real conflict of interest doesn't compute.  

  The people most likely to be influenced by Kos are the ones that seen the disclaimer plain as day, every day.  If you didn't see it you didn't visit this site therefore you couldn't have been influenced by Kos.

  See -  it happened again, give me a couple minutes, I need to reboot.

  by sgilman on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:31:46 AM PDT