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Update [2005-10-18 21:25:11 by Armando]: Crooks and Liars has the vid and more.

Update [2005-10-18 18:50:8 by Armando]: Andrea Mitchell explaining herself on Bill Maher.

Crossposted at My Left Wing.

So on Hardball Andrea Mitchell says "this is a crisis for journalism" - referring to Plamegate. Of course she is right. But the answer is in the comics for you Andrea - Pogo:

We have met the enemy and it is us.

You see, just a moment before, Andrea Mitchell repeated a lying smear forwarded by the Vice President's office -- that Joe Wilson said the Vice President sent him to Niger. That is a lie. It has been debunked. And yet, here she is again, Mrs. Alan Greenspan, who has been lying and covering up on this for 2 years, doing it one more time.

And Tweety has been playing along too. From the Howler:

No, Joe Wilson didn't really say that Dick Cheney sent him to Africa. "In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report," he wrote in his famous New York Times piece. "The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office." . . . [E]veryone agrees--Cheney's office did ask the CIA, and this did lead to that now-famous trip.

. . . But so what? Bush's White House wanted to claim that Wilson-said-that-Dick-Cheney-sent-him. That would help them explain why Rove told Matt Cooper that Wilson was sent by his wife. (This is why they've been trashing Wilson for the one misstatement he really didn't make.) And so, WTF! They began to say it: Wilson said Cheney sent him to Niger! No, it really wasn't true, as you could see if you read Wilson's column. But you know how those bleary-eyed TV hosts are! For the past two weeks, we've seen big hosts stare off into air as this claim keeps getting repeated. RNC spokesmen knew they could say it. TV hosts flat didn't care.

Yes Andrea. Yes Tweety. Yes Broder. Yes, DC Media, there is a crisis.

You are all a bunch of incompetent shills. That's the crisis.

Originally posted to Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:50 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Gawd (4.00)
    They are all so fucking useless.

    I think Andrea Mitchell is actually just an idiot on this.

    Does she think no one will notice her fucking up yet again? In the process of ripping Judith Miller?

    The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

    by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:54:29 PM PDT

    •  Every time I think of Andrea Mitchell... (3.83)
      ...I remember that she's married to Alan Greenspan. That always creeps me out a bit.
      •  Just imagine their 'Pillow Talk'! (evil laugh) (4.00)

        ...with night falling, and down to his last flair, can Armando keep the coyotes at bay?...

        by PhillyGal on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:58:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Don't forget the Greenspan's friendship (4.00)
        with the Cheneys.
        It should always be worn around her neck as a disclaimer.
        For Andrea Mitchell to claim , as she just did, that Cheney has never given her 'background' is just unbelievable.
        •  Saw that (4.00)
          she kind of gulped like she was surprised by the question and then said no, she had not been briefed by him on background.  

          When you are going through hell, keep going! - Winston Churchill

          by flo58 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:11:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  She is partisan (none)
          and her disdain for the notion of John Kerry becoming President was visible on her face during the debates.

          "[I]n all due respect to your profession [journalism], you do a very good job of protecting the leakers." -- Bush on Oct 7, 2003

          by QuickSilver on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:42:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ms. Mitchell, did you get the RNC memo? (none)
            David Brooks got busted for telling the same lie on NPR on July 14th (hear the clip).

            According to MediaMatters for America, Brook's spin lie was based on a memo issued by the RNC:

            In an effort to deflect criticism of Rove, the Republican National Committee (RNC) issued talking points claiming that Rove leaked the identity of Wilson's wife, undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame, in order to correct Wilson's false claim that Cheney's office had sent him to Niger. But the RNC supports this claim by distorting Wilson's July 2003 New York Times op-ed and his August 2003 appearance on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer. In both instances, Wilson made it clear that his trip was authorized by officials at the CIA, not Cheney.

            "[I]n all due respect to your profession [journalism], you do a very good job of protecting the leakers." -- Bush on Oct 7, 2003

            by QuickSilver on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:10:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah...I don't think I knew that (4.00)
        before now...so I'd just like to add: GROSS!

        So, she a terrible journalist, her husband isn't very good at his job either....this is a family of mediocrity!

        •  From CNN Money Magazine (1/25/01): (none)
          In testimony to the Senate Budget Committee, Greenspan declined to comment on President Bush's $1.6 trillion, 10-year tax cut plan, saying a decision on the size of a cut was best left up to Congress and the political process. But the Fed chairman's backing of tax cuts as economically sound likely will provide a boost to the new administration's proposals.

          However, Greenspan played down the idea that tax cuts would provide an immediate boost to the economy, saying that tax reduction is appropriate as a long-term economic measure now because of estimates of a larger-than-expected federal surplus. "And should current economic weakness spread beyond what now appears likely, having a tax cut in place may, in fact, do noticeable good," he said.

          Greenspan, by endorsing the unprecedented tax cut primarily for the wealthiest 1%, sold the rest of America down the river.  The huge deficit the tax cuts created would later be responsible for cutting safety net programs, food stamps, medicaid, welfare, educational funding, basic infrastructure maintenance, jobs development, disaster readiness and response, national security, border security and immigration, environmental protection, scientific research, jobs training, national parks and recreation, highways and transportation, and much other basic assistance.

          Gee, thanks Alan.  You're the only economist that most Americans even know about, and you screwed us by remaining silent while the Federal Treasury was looted by the Bushies.

          So, nice work, Alan.  Perhaps sometime in the near future you and Andrea can join the Cheneys at some posh, exclusive restaurant in Washington DC with a view of the city, and down below you'll be able to see your career handiwork at the dumpsters, where the poor and their children eat from the trash.  

          -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

          by sunbro on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:21:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Andrea Mitchell-Greenspan, needs a disclaimer (4.00)
        on every report.
        I'm Andrea Mitchell, wife of Alan "Bubbles" Greenspan so my every report is a shill for my husband and this president. Yea, hubby's nickname is "Bubbles". He loves bubbles.

        Let's stop feeding greed. In fact, propose we make it a commandment: The greedy shall not be fed.

        by idredit on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:09:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Bubbles" is also the name of (none)
          Michael Jackson's chimp.  George W. Bush is also known as the Smirking Chimp.  So Greenspan and W are one in the same?  A pet of Michael "media frenzy" Jackson?  

          P.S. who's never been in a film with Kevin Bacon.

          •  Wall Street guys named him bubbles (none)
            Greenspan is always talking about bubbles in the economy: internet bubble - that busted, the housing bubble....waiting to be busted.

            Let's stop feeding greed. In fact, propose we make it a commandment: The greedy shall not be fed.

            by idredit on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:06:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I was so distracted (4.00)
        by her makeup I missed everything she said.

        Note to Makeup: Andrea is not auditioning for MTV.

      •  speaking of greenspan... (none)
        did anyone see the article linked to msn's homepage today?  "Greenspan: worst Fed Chief ever"...... I got about two paragraphs into it before my head exploded with a painful headache (I hate economics) :)  But for those with a background; it looked good... :)

        An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind--Gandhi (-9.38, -7.59)

        by hopefulcanadian on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:11:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  ARG! (4.00)
      armando she was spouting that bullshit LIE last night as well!  i'm sure i gain a few blood pressure points every time i hear her say it.

      i'm recommending this because i want every journo that reads this site to ABSORB the information you've got here.  

      "Democrats: Always standing up for what they later realise they should have believed in." -Jon Stewart, the Daily Show

      by anna on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:07:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And on and on (4.00)
        She is a useless incompetent shill.

        She is the crisis.

        The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

        by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:16:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There should be an "incompetent shill" (4.00)
          exception to the journalist privilege.

          "Your honor, Ms. Mitchell claims she is a journalist and is entitled to the protections of the journalist's privilege, but Ms. Mitchell cannot avail herself of these protections because she is an incompetent shill. The purpose of the privilege is to foster the dissemination of information important to the public and the citizenry's understanding of governmental affairs, but if Ms. Mitchell is allowed to practice journalism with the protections afforded journalists, the public will actually become dumber, not better informed. Clearly Congress could not have intended this result by the passage of its [forthcoming] federal shield law."

          •  Even I would sign on for that one (none)

            The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

            by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:38:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks, Armando (none)
              I've been wondering why Mitchell has kept repeating that, over and over again.  

              The next question is, why hasn't anyone on Softball's staff said something to Tweety?  Theoretically, the people who work on the show will lose if it becomes known as Nerfball.

              We're all in this together.

              by JTML on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:45:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Unfortunately (none)
              most journalists of note now, at the level of exposure and prestige of Andrea Mitchell, are equally unworthy of the protections of privilege.

              It's a sad fact. A commenter below stated that it's always been this way -- the fourth estate has never been looking out for joe citizen -- but it's different now than it was 30 years ago.

              High profile journalists are in it for the money and prestige just as much as everybody else seems to be. In times past the money and prestige came as a result of great reporting. This socioeconomic model justified the reporter's privilege in times past because a reporter's self-interest generally coincided with the public's interest in the free flow of truthful information.

              Now, people like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh make tons of money spewing lies. The nightly news is meant to persuade and pacify, instead of inform.

              When you defended Judy Miller, you were operating under the quaint notion that journalism still served the public interest. It doesn't. It serves the interests of the individual journalists and their corporate masters. These interests no longer coincide with the public's interests. For the most part, we no longer get honest reporting. We get crap. Ironically, most of the people who aren't  in it for the big money are citizen journalists -- bloggers -- and it's going to fall that such citizen journalists aren't entitled to the privilege. Only those who work for NBC, FOX, CNN, and the corporate cabal are going to be able to claim it.

              Sorry dude, but the First Amendment is a victim of corporate consciousness.

        •  truly!! N/T (none)

          "Democrats: Always standing up for what they later realise they should have believed in." -Jon Stewart, the Daily Show

          by anna on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:28:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Andrea Mitchell mentioned television appearances (none)
          Is there any known instance where Wilson misstated the facts on TV and accidentally sounded like he was saying the VP sent him? Mitchell wasn't referring to the column for her information.

          Progressives believe in a strong, effective American government: balancing budgets, empowering people, & helping the least among us.

          by BrianVA on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:39:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  In the update (4.00)
      that'd be "Maher." And I know, don't bother. "Schoolmarm."
    •  Andrea Mitchell has always been an idiot (none)
      Every chance she gets, she tries to paint the Republicans in the best light, and the Dems in the worst. She acts like she is the last word in the story, speaking with such authority. I can't stand watching any of them any more. Given the chance, I'll get my news off the internet and form my own opinions. I can't support watching this shit anymore. There are very few shows that even attempt to tell the truth, let alone come right out and say that perhaps this administration is one of the sleaziest, most incompetent regimes in our history, as well as most harmful to our country.
      •  pardon my french (4.00)
        but what a ho-bag.  She is knee deep in this as she was contacted by the smear machine 2 years back. What a smarmy bitch...

        Her, Tweety and Mr. Potatohead - a triumverate of self inmportant gasbags who have lost all shreds of credibility.

      •  I hit the wall on watching these (4.00)
        demons about 10 years ago.  I honestly don't know how so many of the commenters here can bear it.  My blood pressure would blow a gasget if it were part of my routine.  

        It is stark testimony to how debased we are as a societ that such a shill as Andrea Mitchel can go on TV night after night with no disclaimers, no notice of her deep partisanship connections.  The pundit shows should all be required to state in the beginning that they are just front organizations for the Republican Party.  

        Geonomist - Charge for privileges; abolish taxes on production.

        by Geonomist on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:22:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Missed the colon (none)
      And took the title literally. As in "Andrea Mitchell a disaster for journalism" as if it were her.

      My response?

      "Tell us something we didn't already know, Armando."

  •  Wrong messenger (4.00)
    Andrea Mitchell is a poster girl for the MSM's lapdog role covering this administration.
  •  Yeah, I was listening (4.00)
    to her and couldn't believe my ears.

    There is a crisis in journalism precisely because of reporters like you, Mrs. Greenspan.

    Sat there and spewed those same WRONG talking points about Wilson and the VP and Tweety let her get away with it, and THEN had the nerve to say this is a "crisis for journalism."

    Glad you posted this.

    •  That would have been the perfect place for (4.00)
      her mea culpa and I actually expected at least a tacit acknowledgement of her insider status, but NOOO.  Just the "crisis in journalism".  

      I don't usually watch these shows but since I am unemployed, I have time and I really thought it was unethical for her not to fess up.  If they want to hit the ethics stuff they are going to need a little more themselves.    

      When you are going through hell, keep going! - Winston Churchill

      by flo58 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:18:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Worse than useless (4.00)
    They are a "disgrace" to journalism.
  •  Now, give poor Andrea a break (4.00)
    Remember, she's got to wake up looking at this every morning.  <snark>

    Do your part for world peace - visit Iraqi Blog Count and interact!

    by Sharon Jumper on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:57:32 PM PDT

  •  Kinda like breaking your arm (4.00)
    and being worried about it messing up your manicure.
  •  & once & for all time (none)
    i'd like it clarified - was valerie wilson authorised to send anyone on that trip?
    nice to see you & somerby have patched things up.

    i'm an agnostic, i'd be an atheist if it weren't for mozart

    by rasbobbo on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:59:01 PM PDT

    •  I'm giving him a hard time on this (none)
      He's ignoring this stuff now.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:03:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yah, I was surprised at the Howler quote (none)
        Given his all-consuming Joe Wilson hatred, that he was actually willing to dissect the administration's "his wife sent him to Niger" fabrication is sort of surprising, i'nt it?  In fact, having just checked his page for the first time in eons, I see that he's planning more Wilson debunking tomorrow, although at least he's smart enough to add at the bottom

        (Note: None of this means that the outing of Plame may not have been a real crime.)

        Gee, ya think?

        (Shaking head sadly.)

        -- Stu

        •  He's just principled. (none)
          He is enraged by any kind of journalistic innacuracy, sloppiness, or distortion.  It doesn't matter whether it benefits his political friends or foes.

          It sometimes makes him infuriating, as with his tirades on Wilson, but I do think that it makes him a credible critic.  He calls 'em as he sees 'em.

          In that regard, he's a lot like Ronnie Earle and Patrick Fitzgerald, who have both prosecuted plenty of Republicans and Democrats with the zeal of a pit bull in a butcher's shop.  When they do go after someone at the top of the GOP power structure, it is very difficult to persuade anyone (other than hopeless wingnuts) that they are doing it for partisan reasons.

    •  I heard Joe Wilson say (4.00)
      in an interview that his wife did not send him on the trip. She recommended him to the higher-ups because of his background and knowledge, but did not have the authority to send him. Someone higher up the food chain than his wife sent him, and I'm pretty sure I heard him say he did it for free.
      •  Weird Smear (none)
        I always thought this was such an odd smear, that there was some sort of nepotism involved with Wilson's trip to Niger. I mean, Niger isn't exactly the Riviera or Cancun or St. Andrews, Scotland, now is it?

        Niger is one of the poorest countries in the world, a desert country where no where is the water safe to drink, where 1/3rd of the population is on the brink of starvation and where the life expectancy of the average adult is 42 years old, where the degree of risk of infectious disease like typhoid, malaria and hepatitis A are very high, nowhere can you depend on adequate medical care, even in the capital, and where the only tourism opportunities are referred to as "adventure tourism".

        Sounds like Wilson should get a medal for traveling to Niger.

        You can make anything look good if you can write billions of dollars of hot checks. --Ross Perot

        by lanshark on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:48:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Larry Johnson (4.00)
      says Valerie Plame would not have had the authority to send anyone anywhere, and I see no reason to doubt him.
    •  No (none)
      Next question?

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:12:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's about time the MSM (4.00)
    becomes the story.

    If not us, who? If not now, when? L. Feuctwanger

    by mattes on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:59:45 PM PDT

  •  Andrea was a disgrace. (4.00)
    The Weekly Standard guy is further lying about Wilson.  Fortunately, Fineman said, Wilson's not the point here.

    But both Andrea and Weekly Standard were shamefully trashing Wilson.  

    These are journalists, they're courtiers.

  •  Oh. (4.00)
    I thought the title meant that Andrea Mitchell is "A Crisis For Journalism".

    George W. Bush -- It's mourning in America.

    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:00:46 PM PDT

  •  My vote is other (4.00)
    Media will get worse.  The news will become so bad in fact that Kent Brockman will take over for Wolf Blitzer when he retires just so televised news maintains any relevance in the minds of gens x and y.

    I am so far to the left I can almost see the right again.

    by beagleandtabby on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:02:46 PM PDT

  •  They both testified in front of the Grand Jury. (4.00)
    It's time for them to tell their sad, sorry ass stories on how they got down on their collective knees and begged to be lied to and begged to pass on those lies.  Russert too.

    Hey, what is NBC hiding?

    Come clean NBC. It's time for you mea culpa.

    You only regret the things you don't do.

    by DailyLife on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:02:59 PM PDT

    •  Mea culpa? (none)
      How about doubling down?

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:06:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You've got to be kidding. (none)
      NBC coming clean? Aren't they owned by government and military contractor GE?

      hink

      •  A girl can dream....nt (none)

        You only regret the things you don't do.

        by DailyLife on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:19:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  They all work together (4.00)
        in part by using overlapping members of corporate boards of directors. Here's a snip and a compilation from fair.org

        "Media corporations share members of the board of directors with a variety of other large corporations, including banks, investment companies, oil companies, health care and pharmaceutical companies and technology companies. The following list shows board interlocks for June 2001:

        Disney/ABC, General Electric/NBC, Viacom/CBS, AOL Time Warner, News Corporation/FOX, New York Times Co., Washington Post Co., Dow Jones/Wall Street Journal, Tribune Co., Knight-Ridder, Gannett"

        It is better to die standing than to live on your knees. - Emiliano Zapata

        by cotterperson on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:33:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well said! Indeed! (4.00)
    It was so unbelievable to see her pretending to be a part of "journalism" while still obeying orders from BushCo to attack Wilson.
  •  With all this going on... (none)
    ...CNN.com has been leading all day with "Living in a Wireless World: Too Much of a Good Thing?"

    Yep, I'd say there is a crisis in journalism...

    "It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress." --Daniel J. Boorstin

    by mrhelper on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:05:59 PM PDT

  •  Be nice to Andrea. (none)
    She was treated very poorly by the Sudanese government. That seems worse than anything that has been happening in that country. I think this fine reporter needs our support.
  •  Dont forget (none)

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:09:34 PM PDT

  •  The media Inc. will continue to be worthless (4.00)
    until someone comes up with an organization that does not spin left or right but only tells the truth, does not let the culture of personality creep into its anchors so they bias the story instead of reporting the story, forbids coziness between reporters and those being reported on, and holds themselves to the highest standards of journalism. Until then the patient is dead on arrival.

    Long live blogs and sites like Media Matters that will hold the feet of the newsporations to the fire until they do start practicing responsible journalism again.

    Oh, and you too, Armando - for keeping on top of the hypocrisy of these useless insects.

    "As you get older, you get less willing to buy the latest version of reality." Leonard Cohen

    by mentaldebris on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:09:42 PM PDT

    •  So much incompetence (4.00)
      So little time.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:12:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Troika time (none)
        Really something...Tweety and two Republicans (Pat Buchanan and David Gergen) all coming out against making a little bit of defense criminal.  I'd call it a tag team, except that they're all pulling at once.

        We're all in this together.

        by JTML on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:20:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  But it's worse than incompetence (none)
        Much worse...these 'journalists' who have been carrying the administration's water have blood on their hands.  They carry almost as much  blame as the administration in the death of almost 2000 soldiers as well as countless Iraqi civilians.  I'm hoping that some of these fine upstanding reporters find themselves in a heap of shit with Fitz and with the viewing public.

        "Do Iraqi children scream when the bombs fall if no one is in the White House to hear them?" Bernard Chazelle

        by dmac on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:25:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  'Kewl Kidz' journalists hate the Plamegate story (4.00)
      because it is about them and their failure to do their job in 2002 when we could have avoided the Iraq mess.

      It has been one big cozy cocktail hour for the MSM over the past 5 years and Plamegate has exposed their secret society.

      The jigs up guys and gals - the blogosphere and a good portion of the American public are so on to you. You- the MSM kewl kidz, have willingly participated in an act of treason. We know you have abandoned your duties as keepers of the 4th estate. You sat by and applauded the Republican administration as it pillaged the American middle and working class of their economic resources.  You have innocent American and Iraqi blood on your hands. Plamegate is proof that you obviously thought you were smarter than the American public. Fitzgerald is about to prove - despite your education and breeding, that you are collectively pretty stupid.

      Since you have failed in your duties, the citizen journalists of the alternative, community press and the blogosphere are going to take over and do the reporting that matters until you get a clue.

  •  My E-mail to Hardball (4.00)
    Dear Sir/Madam --

    I found it interesting on your recent program that during the course of bemoaning the press' problems with the Valerie Plame issue that Ms. Mitchell claimed that Joe Wilson said that Vice President Cheney asked him to go to Niger.  This has been a Republican talking point for many months now, but it holds not one shred of truth.  To wit, a quote from Mr. Wilson's now famous op-ed piece in the New York Times:

    "In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report," he wrote in his famous New York Times piece. "The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office."

    I have a very difficult time getting "Cheney sent me to Niger" from that quote.  Perhaps if Ms. Mitchell wants to talk about problems in the media, she should begin with herself.  By the way, why didn't Chris Matthews catch this lie?  Does he not read the newspaper?  Or, is he, like Mitchell, just another cog in the Republican spin machine?

    I expect shoddy, biased journalism from Fox News, but I thought MSNBC was better than that.

    Matt

  •  Andrea Mitchell can always be counted on (4.00)
    to take the current topic of serious merit and play it down or spin it in favor of the powerful and corrupt. The thing is, her fellow journalists seem to think she's 'playing the devil's advocate' instead of... well... spinning like mad. Andrea Mitchell being a PR shill pretending to be a journalist is one thing, everybody in the industry looking the other way is another. One person being out of whack can be explained as a person with a bias, an entire industry that is supposed to be the guardian of the public trust working hard to pretend that this bias isn't so is far far worse.

    Nobody in the news industry seems to what to say aloud that Andrea Mitchell being married to Alan Greenspan is a problem, and that it affects her credibility and ability to claim she is non-biased. I'm sorry if the media types don't want  to hear this, but once you find out that Daryn Kagen is screwing Rush Limbaugh on a regular basis you just don't blindly trust her judgement on reporting about his Oxy habit. To me, Andrea Mitchell has the same deal. Greenspan is a shill for the Bush administration and he is up to his eyeballs in the Republican power structure in Washington, and his wife is along for the cocktail party ride every damned time he is.

    The New York Times is lower than LittleGreenFootballs.

    by LeftHandedMan on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:16:31 PM PDT

    •  Oh I Wouldn't Say 'Worthless--' (none)
      There must be some reason the right paid 30 brazillion dollars to buy them up.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:20:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Okay, I just don't GET it........ (4.00)
      All over the place, here, other liberal or progressive websites, hell, even in the MSM, there's all this talk and gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands over the idea that "the media is supposed to be the guardian of the public (or of "the truth")" or other such claptrap.   What on Earth are these people thinking/dreaming about?

      Almost all "mainstream" (and most of the not so mainstream) media serves as an indoctrination and propoganda tool for some group, usually the ones who are the highest bidder or who holds the most power.  That's how it is, and that's how it's always been, as far as I can tell.  Certainly, the not-so-behind-the-scenes  fights between various power groups can sometimes be exposed within the media....that's what's happening now.....with jibs and jabs being taken at each other through the media, but it's still the same issue.  The "public"?   Who cares about them???  They don't have power, nor money (individually speaking), and since they're too sheepish and distracted by sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll to actually organize themselves (and those who do, like, let's say, Labor Unions, well, they're just a bunch of commie-pinko-fags, right, as well as "what's really wrong with this society"), then, for all practical purposes in the cherished "market economy" that we all hail and genuflect to, we're nothing.  Nobody.  We count for exactly this:  diddley-squat.

      So in this "free-market" (ha-ha, the term really doesn't have much humor in it anymore) system that we have, where money talks and everyone else is in a distant 2nd place (what's the cutesy term for that?  "first loser"?), what, exactly, are you really expecting?   That multi-billion enterprises and their highly-paid public PR types (i.e. "journalists") are going to be some sort of paragons of truth, virtue, and Christ-like rigtheousness?   Please tell me....as Jack Nicholson said in "A Few Good Men"...please tell me that there's something more to your case than this!

      In the Art of War, Sun Tzu said that understanding and knowing your enemy, his strategies and tactics, is the key to victory.  Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought.  The great unwashed masses in this republic seem to end up on the losing side of the game so often because they are child-like in their blind faith and belief in a world that does not exist, and never did.  Once they get over that juvenile fascination with the idea that people in positions of power will work for the best interests of "all the people", well, then things might start to change for the better.  Until then, like the good children we've become, it'll be a lifelong game of peek-a-boo, only there won't be any candybars at the end.  

      Childishness: it's not just a kids problem anymore.

    •  Sorry about your Cardinals, my friend (none)
      nt
  •  Young journalists... (none)
    ... who want to make it into the big time: now is your chance. Start reminding management how hopelessly corrupt your elders are. New blood is needed! Carpe diem!
  •  Hey, Jon Stewart! How about taking on Mitchell? (4.00)
    Isn't it time someone showed up her shilling and lying?  She drove me crazy leading up to the election.  Wonder why Dumbnuts didn't nominate her for the Supreme Court?  OR husband Bubbles?
  •  Andrea Mitchell is a crisis for journalism herself (4.00)
    - I think she is so compromised that calling her a talking head is a compliment.  She does the 50:50 reporting on issues most important and embarrassing  better than anyone.She does no fact checking that might make things uncomfortable for the Bush machine.

    "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" Presidential Daily Briefing - August 6, 2001

    by What were you thinking on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:23:35 PM PDT

  •  Hey, Andrea (4.00)
    BREAKING: You're a HACK.

    Oh, and a liar. Thanks for being a wasteless talking head. Now...go away.

    "Im not afraid of storms, for I'm learning to sail my ship." - Louisa May Alcott

    by smugbug on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:29:43 PM PDT

  •  The REAL Crisis for Journalism (4.00)
    Began years ago with the Clinton / Lewinsky debacle where the nation was subjected to ceaseless "breaking news reports" and minute-by-minute coverage of an investigation whose net yield was not a single indictment. Everywhere you watched, read, or looked the non-story was covered. And as big a non-story as it was, it still managed to lead to the impeachment of the president.

    With Fitzgerald nearing ready to indict almost every single high-ranking Bush administration member, the silence in the MSM is deafening -- and that's not for lack of leaks, it's for lack of integrity and an all-too-willingness to act as shills for their masters.

    I will not be in the least surprise that when, or if, indictments are handed up in this, no one will care because people like Andrea Mitchell will somehow spin it that it's all not a big deal, it's all a payback for the Clinton impeachment and it's right back to business as usual.

    Hey! Look at that. The CBS Evening News is starting--with no hint of the grand jury investigation being featured at all.

  •  NPR - Here and Now yesterday (none)
    Robin Young talking about the "Plame Affair" talks about Fitzgerald being the head of the "commission"

    Then she says that Jusy Miller had "Valerie Flame" and "Valerie Wilson" written in her notebook.

    Well, there is no "Commission" it's a fucking Grand Jury, and it was actually "Victoria Wilson" written in the notebook.

    I swear these people don't even fucking READ before they do their shows.  And this is NP-fucking R!!!

    If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up... - Hannah and Her Sisters

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:38:27 PM PDT

    •  NPR truly stinks now (none)
      I just turned off "Talking Point" by Tom whatshisname (I always think of him as Ashlock, because he reminds me of the German word for asshole).

      He's got a program on about Congressional spending priorities and he's oh so calm about the fact that the GOPers are pushing through cuts in Medicare as they cut taxes for the richest and he's letting the idea that "tax cuts spur the economy" shit go by without a murmur.....

      He then starts to introduce his guest from the Heritage Foundation - and I turn off the radio, scream obscenities and almost hit the next car that I see coming (I certainly forget to dim my brights).

      NPR makes me LOSE IT these days. I remember when they were good..... a long time ago.

      It's the Dishonesty, Stupid!

      by dabize on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:28:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh boy (none)
      They are going to get a letter from me, man. It's Pledge Week in our area (I mean more than usual) and I'm going to politely tell them to actually read for factual comprehension before they write, and read it again before they speak, and maybe if they do that I will give them money next year.  
      But not this year.

      War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

      by Margot on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:52:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  NPR = (none)
        National Petroleum Radio

        or

        National Propaganda Radio.

        Take your pick.   It's the Ganda Machine for the slightly-thoughtful-but-still-fully-clueless.  Look and listen to it in those terms, and it will make perfect sense to you then.

        •  I've listened to it (none)
          Since the 70s. Back then,  I didn't even have a TV. Got along very well with radio and reading the paper.  Now? Hah.
           

          War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

          by Margot on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:41:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  But It Can't Be A Crisis, It's A Chronic Condition (4.00)
    And not only has this particular lie been around for 2+ years, but it follows exactly the same pattern as all the "lies" attributed to Gore in the 2000 campaign, which the Daily Howler also debunked thoroughly a couple dozen times.

    The crisis is that suddenly we have a glimpse into its sordid workings while a fair number of poeple are paying attention. That's the crisis.

  •  Discrediting Wilson Ha! (4.00)
    How can they even think that going back to some of the old canards is going to change what happens here.

    This process is NOT the political process where what you can trick people into thinking matters. It's the criminal justice process where what you actually did matters. It doesn't matter if you fool the public, this thing is going to court. In court there is evidence, a detailed reassembly of events, and the prospect of doing real jail time, if you don't tell the truth.

    Andrea and her ilk are so used to spinning reality and getting their way, that that's the only thing that they know to do.

    A crisis for journalism. Ha. This is a crisis for Andrea, because I bet she is hip deep in selling the War Soap too. Let's take a long look at your involvement in backgroung briefings and secret sources.

    And to use this as an argument FOR the shield law. Incredible. We need a law to protect the public from government officials and reporters teaming up to sell wholesale lies to the nation, not a law to shield the government and the press from the criminal justice apparatus when they break the law.

    I hope it is a crisis for journalism, because what is going on right now is not journalism it's propaganda. The best thing that could happen out of all of this would be to break down the complicite relationship between so-called "journalists" and the government.

    I hope this era goes down as one of the most disgusting periods of yellow journalism in the history of the country. By the time this is over I hope we have torn open this crazy conspiracy between the media and government that is crippling the democratic process and plunging the nation headlong in wars and economic ruin.

    Let's go back to a simpler time, where journalists pride themselves on exposing information as so many new outlets like Huffington Post and this blog do. We may have to jettison Ms. Mitchell, but I wouldn't miss her a bit.

    •  did you hear pat robertson (4.00)
      he was on Tweety's show earlier and he stated taht the NYT had been used by Cheney's office as a propaganda tool to convince the public of the threats of WMDs in Iraq were real ..... i just wish that these socalled "journalists" all grew a couple of balls and got pissed when they find themselves being used and manipulated .... they are true courtesons (sp?) and I'm tired of hearing their shrill
  •  Credibility (4.00)
    One of the things that perked my ears up was the panel all saying that Wilson has "credibility problems."  It was almost as though Wilson was the one being investigated.

    I am still trying to piece together what credibility problems Wilson has.  

    Additionally, I am also still perplexed as to how anything Wilson could have done would have justified outing a covert CIA agent.

    I guess I am just rational and logical that way.

    My apologies.

  •  And to think (4.00)
    that it wasn't that long ago they said irony was dead . . .
  •  Yes, all one needs to do is read... (none)
    Wilson's op ed.

    It DOES NOT SAY THAT THE VEEP SENT HIM.

    This is what is so maddening about dealing with these guys.

    They look at night and say "day." Up is "down." In is "out."

    And most of all wrong is "right."

    New on EWM: Fitzgerald Issues Frog-Marching Guidelines

  •  Journalistic Ethics Anyone? (4.00)
    Did either Andrea or Chris mention that they were 2 of the 6 press members originally leaked to by "senior administration officials"?  If so, it would be the first time.

    Not mentioning that minor fact is a little like a reporter doing a story on a murder and failing to mention that she was a witness to it.

  •  Just so you know we all don't suck (4.00)
    I have been a journalist for more than 20 years.  I am not attending the SPJ Conference, and I am not renewing my membership in SPJ, of which I have been a member for as long as I can remember.  I am not renewing in protest to Miller getting a First Amendment Award.  

    Peace.
    Shirley

  •  Eurasia/Eastasia (4.00)

    This isn't much of a journalistic miscue. According to Wilson, Cheney's office requested the CIA provide information about the letter, so the source of the request came from Cheney's office where Cheney is ultimately responsible. When Cheney claims he didn't personally send Wilson as if to say his office didn't send him or cause him to be sent, he is lying. A more serious media problem is the failure to call him on it and his other lies.

    It's surprising to see someone slamming the media for saying "sent" when I've been reading (or at least picking up) the same thing from JMM, Atrios, here, etc for the past two years. It's like something out of Orwell, where a commonly known fact suddenly becomes inoperative and nobody mentions it anymore. Reading the link, it seems what changed this was the Republican cover-up committee issuing an official statement that Cheney did not send Wilson and then the Republican media machine using this quibble to call Wilson a liar.

  •  Call me what you will... (4.00)
    But I think the Blogosphere, or some form of it, is the future of journalism. Ya, ya, I know bloggers aren't journalists, but damn if we don't do a better job most of the time. It's like group journalism. No one person can be flattered, pimped, bought off, or tempted. There's too many of us to make corrupting this medium possible on a wide scale basis.

    I'm sure somebody will find a way to abuse this system, if they haven't already, but for now I just feel good that I can fact check my news from a partisan bias right here an elsewhere in the Blogosphere.

  •  Best. Poll. Ever. (none)
    Great questions, Armando.  Even if it is coming out kinda lopsided . . .
  •  It's 7PM: Do you know where your Drudge is? (none)
    Still no word....

    Wish I could see the memo/call that Eggman got to tell him to play down the biggest scandal of the last 10 years.....

    I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

    by Volvo Liberal on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:02:33 PM PDT

  •  This lie bothers the hell out of me (4.00)
    Along with it's companion:  Valerie Plame suggested her husband be sent on the mission, and this is all a case of nepotism.

    The RWNM has been very effective at the dissemination of these talking points, and Andrea Mitchell has been one of their primary conduits.  

    If Ms. Mitchell-Greenspan wants to discover what's wrong with today's media all she need do is look in a mirror.

    "My job is to protect the American people." George W. Bush. Did he?

    by PAprogressive on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:02:56 PM PDT

    •  She's a fool (none)
      Were I a media shill for this sinking administration, right now I'd be remembering the absolute seriousness and determination in Joe Wilson's eyes when he promised that those responsible for endangering his family would pay.  He told them years ago that he'd get them, and whaddayaknow? right now, we are on an indictment watch for some of the highest officials in the Bush administration.  People who thought they were privileged and untouchable.  Even the stalwart New York Times is feeling the heat from this sorry set of events.  I'd be unsurprised if this scandal becomes large enough to encapsulate the most steadfast propaganda peddlers for the Bush administration.  I think we are only seeing the beginning of the shitstorm.  I hope Ms. Miller gets caught in it.
  •  To Tweety's credit (none)
    He's been covering this story for the past 2 weeks straight. And he's been openly speculating on Cheney/Libby/Rove etc.

    Actually I think last night, his entire segment was dedicated to this case.

  •  Why doesn't some (none)
    polling company conduct a poll on how the American public feels about their media?  Trust? Doing their job?  Providing information or opinion?
  •  Blatant Lie--Despicable (4.00)
    This is not a right or left or conservative or liberal perspective.  In this case either it is right or wrong.  And even if you are a republican and want to get a conservative perspective you cannot change the facts.

    Conservatives or Republicans in order to be credible should speak on facts and not obvious lying.  

    Stop Corporate Influence; buy DEMOCRACY BONDS!!! http://www.democrats.org/democracybonds.html

    by timber on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:12:38 PM PDT

  •  She looks freaked out to me (4.00)
    like she can't believe this is all happening, like she has some part in it.

    Yes indeed, she looks very very uncomfortable!

    inspire change...don't back down

    by missliberties on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:16:03 PM PDT

  •  Pogo (none)
    The precise line from Pogo is, "We have met the enemy and he is us." It's a riff on Admiral Oliver Hazard Perry's "We have met the enemy and they are ours."

    I've got blisters on my fingers!

    by Elwood Dowd on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:17:14 PM PDT

  •  I love Buchanan!! (4.00)
    Well, ok I don't! ;-)

    But he's on Hardball right now, asking why hasn't the FBI till date, told us who forged the Italian documents to get the US into war.

    Was it the Israelis?
    Was it the Neo-Cons?
    Was it DC agencies?
    Was it the French?

    Buchanan's words.

    •  People are throwing the baby out with the bath (none)
      They are giving so much air time to the speculation that we were lied into war. I don't understand what everyone here is harping on Andrea for what she is saying today. Today, Andrea and Matthews, and others are saying exactly what we want them to say. Or, at least, they are giving lots of good information with the bad. They are priming the public to understand the context:

      IF we were lied into war, that would be consistent with a huge swath of the White House being indicted and forced to resign.

      By tomorrow, or next week, all these BushCo members could be simultaneously resigning! Harball, the last coulple evenings, is priming the public to understand that the background is that we were lied into war. So, learn to live and let fucking live people. You've been bitching and bitching (rightly so) for years that the MSM is towing the BushCo line. Now they have sufficiently woken up and are doing good reporting. You got what you want, so stop bitching and enjoy it. I just flipped back to FOX, and it was a commercial advertising and Exclusive! Interview with Rush Limppalm on Hannaty and Hannaty. So it could get a lot worse. And we've got K.O.'s Countdown. Encourage it. If you are not satisfied with this, you need to recalibrate your expectations meter.

      TAKE THE STICKS OUT OF YOUR ASSES AND ENJOY!!

      "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

      by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:01:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sheesh (none)
        Patrick Fitzgerald will either indict or not. They are covering that story. And you want to give a big hand for that?

        BTW, if you have NOT noticed how they attempt to downplay the seriousness of the allegations, then you are just not paying attention.

        You suffer from battered Dems syndrome.

        The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

        by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:11:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually.... (none)
        I was happy that someone was mentioning the forgeries on prime time and he wasn't cut off by the host (Tweety in this case).
        •  Who was it? (none)
          See, I did not want to get into Benjamin's ridculous apologia for Hardball, but you forced me to.

          PAT Fucking Buchanan! He is not a reporter. He is not a serious person. He opposed the war in Iraq.

          Did you notice if anyone said anyhting in response?

          Did you notice Tweety fawning over Steven Hayes?

          Please ignore this Battered Dem Benjamin who thinks telling the truth is a tall order for journalists.

          He's pathetic.

          The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

          by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:18:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  BTW (none)
            That PAt Buchanan is not a serious person has nothing to do with the fact that he opposed the war in Iraq.

            It is another factor aqs to how this is being framed -

            it is not about the lying - it is about where you lined up on the war.

            That is Tweety's angle already.

            And that trivializes the point.

            It is part of the Criminalization of Politics push we are now getting.

            The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

            by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:27:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  ...adsf (none)
            I'm not saying Tweety is a "fair journalist". And I'm not saying this means anything about Buchanan either. But i for one, haven't heard of the Italian forgeries on TV for a long time.

            Every time someone brings the focus back to the reasons given for more and takes it beyond the immediate story, I cheer it because it paints BushCo negatively.

            I believe it was Fineman, on Hardball who was liberally using the term "BushFamily". We speak of the power of words here, right? What does the "Bush Family" mean to you (even though he'd once in a while qualify it with "Bush Political Family"). :-)

            I watch him at times because he is an "insider". He gets Fineman, Isikoff, Vandehei, Gergen and other "big names". I know he only cares for Tweety, nothing more. It's a collective, solemn head shaking session most of the time, nothing more.

            But I've been watching him for the past week straight because of his end to end coverage of this story. And he's openly speculating: what if Cheney said this, what if Rove said that to Libby who got the approval from Cheney and so on. These are "establishment" figures who are discussing this.

            I'm just happy that this story is getting prime TV coverage and the more it stays on the radar and the more Tweety cuts off Andrea Mitchell, I like it.

            •  typo (none)
              "Every time someone brings the focus back to the reasons given for <strike>more</strike> war and takes it beyond the immediate story, I cheer it because it paints BushCo negatively."
            •  But ONLY Buchanan (none)
              even touched the forgeries.

              That's my point.

              Your joy is misplaced entirely in my opinion.

              Fitzgerald has forced this story.

              Nothing else.

              To give credit to lying shills for faux covering the biggest story in town is to buy into the Battered Dem syndrome of Benjamin.

              not only do I refuse to, I will call out anyone who endorses it, like Benjamin.

              Asking for the truth from  reporters is not too much to ask, whatever Benjamin thinks.

              The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

              by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:34:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Stop calling me a battered Dem (none)
                I'm not a Democrat, and I'm not battered.

                I'm doing shit to change this country and to stop the war and get these criminals out of office. In my opinion, the vast majority of elected Democrats are not representing the 100% of voters and troops who were lied into war. Democrats are battered, and I am calling both them and Repubs to confront Bush's War Lies. I'm one of the millions of Americans that is trying to inject fire and spine into the Democratic party, because the Repubs are completely hopeless.

                I just don't think it's possible for the MSM to saturate the airwaves any thicker with talk about the possibility of the Bush ADmin lying us into war. I distincly remember back in May around the time of the London Times DSM, and thinking, the point of view that it's even possible that Bush could have lied us into war is never on TV. Now it's a huge percentage of the time.

                Time will prove whether your or my attitude is correct:
                Armando's correct: MSM goes back to old ways.
                Bejammin correct: MSM gives much air time, and commentary on, the fact that it is possible or even probable that we were lied into war.

                We should be partying like the Ewoks at the end of Jedi. We are going to hold these Nazi-like fucktards accountable, and you find a few sentences to get hung up on. The whole truth is coming out, and will come out, and America will wake up. We're at a major turning point. Open a fucking bottle of champaign and celebrate!

                When all these indictments come out, the repulican stench will be so great, nobody can ignore it, even people like my relatives who hate to experience any exposure to politics will be saturated.

                At the water coolers of this whole country, people will be talking about all the indictments and war lies. I'm actually giddy about the impending indictments. I just strikes me as very odd that you are so hung up on a few words and missing the big picture.

                The bottom line is getting Repubs and Independents to turn on Bush. When Bush's support gets into the low 30's, we will be marching in Washington with a million plus, demanding the resignation of the president.

                "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

                by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:54:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Battered Whatever (none)
                  See Armando is already correct -

                  Andrea Mitchell lied.

                  And Battered Benjamin said thank you maam could I have some more?

                  See, if the Media shapes up, it will be IN SPITE of the Battered Benjamins. It will be because of the Asshole Armandos.

                  That is why I give you grief. Get out of the way and let the Fighters fight this fight.

                  Go quisle on some other issue.

                  The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

                  by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:59:26 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Let me clarify a couple things (none)
                    Just to make sure.
                    I did not intend to say, specifically, send praise to Mitchell for her lies today. I meant that, as an example, Harball was overall very good, and somebody (whoever is appropriate) deserves some actual credit. Perhaps, as examples: The other journalist who was on the segment. Or the show's producer. Or even Matthews, for not interupting the good info and allowing our message to at least stand side-by-side with the rediculous lies. Our points, when actually presented fair'N'balanced, will always knock down the tattered and weak GOP lies. Dare I say, Pat Buchannan deserves to be thanked for his frankness on the possible conspiracies that lead us into war.

                    We are making rapid advancements in the court of public opinion, and we will be getting BushCo by the nuts in the court of law, with PlameGate indictments and the aftermath.

                    "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

                    by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:51:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  I'm glad you can be happy Araina (none)

              "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

              by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:56:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  What could they do that would actually please you? (none)
            And it also just occured to me: I can't recall any elected Democrat on TV, saying in primetime, anything even close to how Tin-Foil-Hat-ish Pat Buchannan was being on the conspiracy of the Bush admin to sell a war based on lies.

            I'm not appologizing for Hardball. They generally suck and have sucked for years. But today they don't deserved to be slammed. If the press ever did see the light, completely, would you bash and bash them until they were 110% shouting that Bush is a war criminal? What are your expectations for what should happen right at this moment on Prime Time Cable News?

            I am not a battered Dem or even a Democrat. But I am doing shit like getting involved with Move-On's early targeting of 6 very vulnerable (R)House seats, getting people involved and seeing the light, exposing people everywhere to the Downing Street Minutes, printing my own bumber stickers (because none commercially avaiable go far enough, like "I supported the War when I believed the LIes".

            I'm not a battered Dem. I'm a fighter. I'll register Democratic when the Democrats can muster more than 5% of their party to vociferously fight the evil that they stand by and watch destroy this country and the world.

            "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

            by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:37:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Today I slammed Andrea Mitchell for lying (none)
              What the hell is wrong with you?

              You wrote we should THANK Andrea Mitchell.

              And ask you again, for what?

              For lying AGAIN?!@?!?

              You're no fighter when it comes to the Media.

              You are a Quisling.

              The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

              by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:40:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I have not seen Hardball... (none)
        But in a sense, Armando is right. Johnny come latelies now beginning to speak the truth does not fully make it after all their credibility has been destroyed by the witless shilling they have done for so long. Unless they can be brutally honest about themselves, they should not be given a gatepass to skate out. Just like Judy - her "I don't remember which birdie whispered Valerie Flame to me" - these kind of "Oh we were lied to" now does not cut the mustard.

        I don't know that much about Andrea Mitchell, but certainly Chris Matthews has piled his shit deeper and higher than consistent with being misled. They can't pull the wool over people's eyes much more.

        •  The bottom line is what is going to (4.00)
          happen to public opinion? Bush is getting his dick cut off, every time they talk about the possiblity that Bush lied us into war. That issue trumps all other issues, and they are giving it lots of coverage. For every bad  or innaccurate statement, there are several good ones.

          I got into an arguement at work a few months ago, when Sheehan started the Crawford protest. Even thought the coverage of her was very negative, people talked about it. And 2 old conservatives started chatting about how Sheehan was a nutcase. I spoke up, and said "She's protesting in Crawford because everything Bush told us about Iraq was a LIE". And we had about as heated a discussion you can have at a workplace, with a guy almost twice my age. I have a copy of the DSM posted outside my cubicle, highlighted and annotated, in prominent display, despite the fact that I could take heat for basically calling the President a war ciminal and traitor for all to see who walk past my cubicle. I did this at the risk of damaging my professional career, being labeled a "conspiracy theorist". All this talk of consppiracy on the news is vindication of my point of view. When the indictments come out, everyone will say, "Hey, Bejammin knew about this months before we did - he must be a pretty smart guy."

          I am going to be walking 10 feet off the ground when these indictments come out, and the news coverage will be fantastic.

          "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

          by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:03:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I applaud you for the courage of your convictions. (none)
            But you should lower your expectations about what a walk in the park it is going to be after the indictments (IF) are announced. They are not going to sit there and take it on the chin as you may envision. They will take the offense in dubious ways. Not that they will prevail, but it will take the edge off the vindication for those of us tired of the Republican BS.

            Just look at the Tom DeLay indictment. His lawyer pulls a stunt like subpoenaing Ronnie Earle's instructions to the grand jury. While it will most not legally prevail in the long run, it distracts the media from going after DeLay more rigorously - I don't see much mention of DeLay scheduled for fingerprinting and mugshot photos being taken of him. (I heard one news report on NPR saying that the counter suit filed by DeLay's Texas attorney is proof of why Deggan(sp?) is the best defense attorney in Texas)

            I don't think in this particular case (back to discussing Plame leaj investigation), the public opinion matters as much - by the time 2006 elections rolls around, much more water would have passed under the bridge and people have short memories. And more importantly, Bush is in office till 2008 end.

            What is much more important in the Plame case, and in this context, in terms of the media reporting is that people like Andrea Mitchell and Chris Matthews have their feet held to the fire for mis-reporting and going along lazily with the White House spin. They need a Judy Miller type accounting moment.

      •  You say: (none)
        "they are giving lots of good information with the bad."  I think what most of us are asking is that they simply give information.  These people--in this case Matthews and Miller/Mitchell--are in no way qualified to be pontificating either way.  What the bloody hell difference does it make who sent Joe Wilson to Niger? In the amount of time they spent repeating a deliberate inaccuracy, they could have mentioned that Joe Wilson wasn't the only living soul on this planet who doubted the Iraq WMD story touted by this administration generally, and by Cheney specifically.  Those are facts.  Why is the current broadcast media so opposed to presenting those, instead of their own self-serving, egotistical, ignorant and ill-informed opinions?  What you are suggesting is that we have no business criticizing what we know to be mendacious news reporting, if every so often we get a few crumbs of truth.
  •  it's most telling that (none)
    Shills like Andrea Mitchell have nothing better to work with than Rove talking points from two years ago.

    Has the Mighty Wurlitzer run out of fresh ammunition? No new RNC blast-faxes?

  •  If you shit where you eat (none)
    for long enough, you get cholera. That's what happened to the Mainstream media, they let themselves be bought, and now they are just employees.

    I agree with all the posts above who say the jounalistic privilidge should be earned.

  •  andrea got really worried... (4.00)
    i was watching her many months ago on stephanopolous' show and he asked her if it was common knowledge that valerie plame/wilson was in the cia. she got the weirdest evasive expression in her eyes and answered that it was common knowledge among journalists. she obviously didn't want to answer the question or elaborate on it. what's up with THAT?? i never heard it from any other journalist. maybe among the people SHE considers journalists, maybe. i was thinking more about the journalists who find out what's happening and put it in the paper, myself.
    •  Cuz she was told that by Cheney's people (none)
      and repeated in 2003.

      Steph knew what he was doing.

      And thanks for that Andrea, in honor of the Quisling Dem who thinks we should thank our lucky stars for the wonderful press corps we have.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:01:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I remember that... (none)
      This is another example of the two classes of informtion that "journalists" like Andrea keep track of in their heads.

      Sometimes they get confronted with a "Chinese Wall" moment like that due to the need, quickly and on camera, to reconcile the lies that they are telling with the truths that they know. It gives you a clear glimpse into the whole sordid mess that the media has become.

      It even happened on this Hardball when Mathews asked if Cheney gave the Washington Post reporter "background" briefings. He looked flabergasted that Mathews would inch back the curtain. When Mathews asked Mitchell the same question she simply refused to answer and changed the subject.

      I wrote more about this here, but I am convinced that this practice of including reporters in government super secrets is one of the biggest threats to democracy. I'm not talking about leaking Classified information. I'm talking about a new insideous class of secret information that is information told to reporters under "background" which they can't report since it is "off the record."

      By doing this the government source co-opts the reporter, in effect making them part of the team.

      •  Excellent point, and... (none)
        They took that system even further when they (supposedly) gave Judy Miller "Secret" clearance. That pulled her even deeper into the web of hidden information and deceit.

        We can conclude that both "not for attribution" and "off the record" need to be stricken from the vocabulary of Washington journalism.

        Is there any journalist's code of ethics?

        Oh, sorry, I forgot. Ethics is only for bloggers. Lefty bloggers, that is. Certainly not for the Weblog of the Year, 2004 edition. (What a milepost for history!)

    •  I got the same impression today (none)
      when Tweety asked her if she got background from Cheney.  I could swear she gulped before she said no.  She would not make a good poker player.

      When you are going through hell, keep going! - Winston Churchill

      by flo58 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:31:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  She said it AGAIN!! (4.00)
    "That Wilson was saying that the VP sent him, possibly to inflate his importance."
     - Andrea Mitchell, Hardball, 10/18/2005
    •  It's pathetic really (none)
      These twerps can't seem to come to grips with the reality that this thing is impervious to spin.  No matter how many times they repeat these fraudulent talking points it simply doesn't matter.  It isn't about moving a poll a couple of percentage points.  This is about the criminal justice system.  It is about the law and evidence.  All this crap is about as effective as a fart on a windy day.
  •  I can't believe how rough you are being (none)
    The last couple days, Hardball has been great. Just minutes ago, he had Pat Buchannan, Patrick J. Fucking Buchannan, stating that The Iraq War was sold on a conspiracy, using forged documents. He even said the forgeries might have come from another intelligence service. They are giving tons of air time to the idea that we were lied into war. This is exactly what we need right now!

    OK, I understand, Chris Matthews and others have had shitty coverage for years. I say, for right now, forget about all that bad blood. Embrace and enjoy the moment. Maybe even send him a nice email. He's doing what we want right now, let's not bite his head off. Same with Andrea Mitchell.

    "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

    by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:50:37 PM PDT

    •  Are you fucking kidding me? (none)
      Thank you for repeating Cheney lying smears?

      Actually, I have also found the problem here amongst Democrats -- people like you.

      Honest to fucking Gawd.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:55:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now I'm sure that someone is (none)
        sitting in for Armando.
        •  Sarcasm? (none)
          It does not become you Earl.

          Of course you think we should be thanking Andrea Mitchell too no doubt.

          The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

          by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:02:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I can see a nice email. (4.00)
            "Dear Mr. Matthews:  

            A little back-slapping is in order!  Last night's broadcast was approximately 25% vicious lies, with the remainder mostly accurate commentary.  I would like to thank you for the improvement; only recently your program was approximately 75% vicious lies.

            Keep up the good work!!!"

            I am all for giving credit where credit is due.

            •  Heh (none)
              I can get behind that e-mail campaign.

              Benjamin? What do you think?

              The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

              by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:31:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I could too (none)
                That point above is what I'm trying to say: They've gone from 46% Lies + 46% Useless Info + 8% Obscured Truth to something with a lot higher proportion of Truth, in the balance of the coverage. Mitchell may be spewing a talking point, but Armando, have no fear, those will totally fall apart after the indictments are slapped into the Bush admin.

                You're a fighter, and I'm a fighter. I'm not a Dem, but for now, we're very much fighting on the same side. In my other posts, I describe how I fight. And I forgot to add I donate a lot of money all over the place (like the latest "Impeach Bush?" poll, for example). I protest. I try to recruit others. All I think about, all day, is how to peacefully end the Bush administration and put a multigenerational stain on the Bush admin.

                "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

                by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:13:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Then let us fight on this (none)
                  You clearly don't want to.

                  So let those of that do, do it.

                  The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

                  by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:15:36 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm not going to fight you (none)
                    I'm fighting the Bush admin. In my posts, I gave you like 8 or more examples of how I spend every waking moment thinking about, or doing, something to end the Bush admin (peacefully, if any dark glasses types are watching...).

                    Why do you keep calling me a non-fighter? There's like 10 million things we can do to fight the Bush admin. If Mitchell just lied on TV, then getting pissed at her is one of those 10 million things we can do. We all don't need to be focused like the Death Star on destroying Andrea Mitchell while ignoring other stuff. There's no shortage of anvils to throw at the Bush admin right now.

                    Read my other posts about what I'm doing to change things before you call me battered Dem again. I am neither! If you want to calibrate my attitude, here's my attitude: John Conyers and Barbara Boxer sometimes fight enough, sometimes they don't. Everybody else never fights enough (well, maybe there's 2 or 3 more). The rest are deer-eyed cowards or corrupt or clueless.

                    Stop saying I don't want to fight!!

                    "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

                    by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:26:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  It's actually a compliment (none)
            Among other things (see my comment on the other thread), I found it hard to believe that you didn't know how to spell "Maher". I know you type fast and furiously and all, but still...
      •  Perhaps you are focusing on specific (none)
        snips, and not seeing the whole. For example, in the discussion on tonight's Hardball, they basically brought to the attention of the viewers the logical falacies of the White House response to PlameGate. They talked a lot about possible large conspiracies to sell the war based on lies. WTF do you want them to talk about? There's no better subject in my opinion. If they want to talk talk talk about the possibility, nay, the likelyhood, that BushCo lied us into war, I say great. They can't go from where they were, in the previous days-years, parroting GOP TPs, to prematurely proclaiming on the night before the indictments, that the Administration is guilty of High Treason and War Crimes. And they just might have to give some time to the issue of wingers cannabilizing themselves over Harriat Miers, or some other dead fish around Bush's neck. At this point, there's almost no good news on TV that the Bush Admin can spin for themselves.

        We finally have it where The Emperor Wears No Clothes, and you are expecting too much too soon.

        I don't want to repeat what they said in the whole show tonight, and at this point I can't remember exact quotes, but, as a whole, they are doing a good job. This is no where near like when they'd have Ken Melman on, spewing his talking points unanswered. Armando, you're getting warped and demented.

        "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

        by bejammin075 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:14:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  New Murray Wass: Focus on Scooter (none)

    I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

    by Volvo Liberal on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:58:59 PM PDT

  •  anyone watching cspan2 (none)
    its got sam donaldson on right now at the National Press Club speading yesterday at the Opinion and Biasd in News Coverage .... its pretty cool hearing him actually say what we (the bloggers) have been saying ... its pretty darn amazing
  •  Thank you for saying this out loud (4.00)
    I was yelling at the TV both when I heard Andrea Mitchell repeat that stupid lie about "Valerie sending her husband to Niger" and when I heard Matthews chirping about it, too, as if it were FACT.

    Shortly after that we watched the movie "Sahara", which has the characters going up the Niger River in Africa.  I explained to our credulous gathering that this terrain is like the deluxe vacation spot that Valerie Wilson is alleged to have pulled her (non-existent clout strings -- she was only a clerk typist at the Agency, after all, remember --to have her husband sent on an all-by-taxpayers'-expenses-paid trip to Niger while she was 4  months pregnant with their twins, certainly no anxiety there in sending Joe off to such a locale at that time, no sirree...

    Yeah.

    I was so enraged at Mitchell and Matthews spewing this crock even at this late date when the true FACTS are so easily obtainable everywhere now.  Dammit.

    Thanks for calling it like it is, Armando.  Makes me feel better.  grrrrrr....

  •  The biggest problem here (none)
    Is the persistent meme that the media is compromised...

    ...as opposed to an active partner in the Plame exercise.

    News Flash

    They. Were. ALWAYS. In. On. The. Treason.

    Fitzmas Magnus

    This could turn into a war between the Pubs and the Publishers, really fast.

    In which case, the underrecognized alliance that has prevailed in 20th-early 21st Century politics will collapse.

    The Fourth Estate as the speaker-to-power has been in main a myth for a very, very long time...sort of like the older, equally-vacuous concept of chivalry, the myth of the white knight in an era where knights did not too frequently defend the weak, but rather took what they pleased from them, on pain of death.

    Now that the threat is merely death of reputation does not make the dynamic any different.

    It's only Nero-esque if the city is burning. :)

    by cskendrick on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:25:22 PM PDT

  •  LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH (4.00)
    Paul Waldman from Gadflyer and Media Matters had a column at TomPaine.com listing how they do it. One of the tactics is to Lie through your teeth.

    "Republicans have argued that Valerie Plame was not a covert agent (she was), and some have even suggested that Iraq really might have been seeking uranium from Niger, something even the Bush administration has admitted is false. But much of their arguments centers on the utterly phony claim that Karl Rove was trying to stop Matthew Cooper from writing about Wilson because Wilson had claimed that Vice President Cheney sent him to Niger. Wilson never said any such thing; he said that the vice president's office asked the CIA to investigate the uranium claim, and the CIA asked him to take part in that investigation. Spinner after Republican spinner has lied about this, trying to paint Rove's outing of Plame as "discouraging a reporter from writing a false story based on a false premise," as RNC chairman Ken Mehlman put it."

    Andrea Mitchell and Chris Matthews continue to LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH tonite on Hardball 10/18/05

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/interviews/wilson.html

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a8dab8rni_Do&refer=us

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200507140001

  •  Can't we please find a way (none)
    to make every journalist have a look at the Howler at least once a week?  Maybe Somerby can put together a spam list with the email account of every notable journo on it, or something.

    Reading that site -- that prim, hectoring, schoolmarm, usually annoying but always, always correct -- would have the effect of having their knuckles rapped with a ruler for chewing gum in class.

    They wouldn't like it, and they would claim it's all wrong and beneath them -- but it would change their behavior.

  •  Fineman said Wilson is kind of beside (none)
    the point, at this point.

    Loved that - some truth for a change.

    "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

    by adigal on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:34:36 PM PDT

    •  Fineman (none)
      has turned around on this story.

      A year ago he would not have had the gumption to basically tell him there was no business in having that fool from the Standard on the show.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:36:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, Weekly Standard "reporter" (none)
        lying through his teeth about Joe Wilson and who sent him to Niger (wonder if he is being paid by the RNC and knows Gannon?)

        No longer relevant if it ever were.  On a funnier note, Keith has a terrorism analyst on after he said, New York yesterday, Baltimore today, where next??

        Totally snarky.

        "If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention."

        by adigal on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:39:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Wilson also says Wilson's beside the point (none)
      He's said repeatedly the issue isn't what's been done to him or done to his wife, it's about a nation being lied into a criminal war -- and what are we going to do about it?

      Funny how the "media" just can't quite get that.

      Real funny.

      Hilarious.

      ::: click :::

      "Injustice wears ever the same harsh face wherever it shows itself." - Ralph Ellison

      by KateCrashes on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:48:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I know you are but what am I? (none)
  •  that was a close vote (none)
  •  crooksandliars (none)
    have a video of Ms. Greenspan's performance up here

    DFooK

    Strange and beautiful are the stars tonight, that dance around your head.

    by deepfish on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:57:45 PM PDT

  •  ...and they credit Armando... n/t (none)

    Strange and beautiful are the stars tonight, that dance around your head.

    by deepfish on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:59:10 PM PDT

  •  Andrea Mitchell is a Rethug (none)
  •  It is just too too funny (none)
    All the journalists, like Andrea, who want to look like they're responsible journalists.

    Just call me Ms Cynic

    by xyz on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:21:46 PM PDT

  •  A little walk down memory lane. (none)
    Mitchell acted as Cheney cheerleader after the VP debates last October, saying Cheney 'put Edwards in his place,' and trumpetting Cheney's claim that he had never met Edwards until that night -- which turned out to be  a lie.

    Pattern?

  •  Mother of God (none)
    I just caught Aaron Brown castigating Arianna Huffington about how "liberals" are going after Judy Miller for "protecting" her source and how hypocritical this is. Someone please draw the clueless Brown this picture:

    -Judy Miller couldn't protect a sources "she couldn't remember" (Arianna brought that up).
    -How can Judy protect a "source for a story" when by her own admission, she was NOT writing a story;
    -Judy Miller's incarceration wasn't about the 1st amendment, it was about the 5th amendment; and
    -Judy wasn't protecting a source, she was protecting criminal activity.

    I feel like I am watching a Roadrunner cartoon and the MSM is the clueless coyote who keeps ordering explosives from the Acme company and keeps blowing himself up - they are incapable of learning the lesson of Judy Miller.

  •  Email sent. (none)
    To letters@msnbc.com.

    To the Editor:

    I write about one of your correspondents, Andrea
    Mitchell.  Tonight, she appeared on Hardball, and in the course of a conversation on the Plame scandal repeated a plainly false Republican talking point. The claim in question is that Joseph Wilson claimed that Vice President Dick Cheney had asked him to go to Niger to check on stories of attempted uranium purchases by Iraq.

    Mr. Wilson never made such a claim.  This is clear to anyone who has read his famous Op-Ed in the New York Times in the summer of 2003.  Dick Cheney and a long list of Republicans have said that Mr. Wilson made this claim, even though it has been debunked and disproven long ago.  (See http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh072205 for documentation.)

    It is frankly bizarre that a journalist would report as fact partisan talking points for either party that have long since been proven false.

    Regards, etc.

    We can't just bellyache to each other.  These folks need to hear from us.  An avalanche of angry emails is something they really do understand.

  •  Yeah, and Andrea puts the capital in C for Crisis. (none)
    I was going to do n/t after that lede, but I'm feeling Catty with a capital C.

    Andrea is Culprit No. 1 when it comes to the Crisis in journalism. She's married to Greenspan, a man in the know, so here we have a journalist with a wealth of Circles of information for bringing truth to the public. Yet, she's MIA and Calling the kettle black.

    What has she done? Ca.Ca.Ca. Cave to power and influence for personal gravitas and a revolving place setting at the best DC dinner parties.

    Andrea is part of the problem, not part of the solution to failed journalism.

  •  What Journalism? (none)
    I mean... you can't technically call propaganda journalism can you?

    Journalism is dead. So is God. So is Philosophy.

    All Dead.

    It's time we remembered how to be Creative.

    That's what blogging is about.

    -9.38:-7.59 U.S. blue collar worker vs. CEO income in 1992 was 1:80; in 1998 it was 1:418.

    by Lode Runner on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:29:35 PM PDT

  •  We have met the enemy and they is us. n/t (none)

    You should be read this book by Chris Mooney - The Republican War on Science

    by cmk on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:43:34 PM PDT

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