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Nice to see kos is chiding his users for not falling into line with his grand vision for the site.
Call me an old-school Internet anarchist, nostalgic for the gentle hacker etiquette of Usenet post retraction, but I do find this one of the saddest aspects of the blogosphere..... the frankly undemocratic attitude of the local despots, who apparently would be quite happy for us all to turn into nice little automata: virtual Stepford Wives staying on the approved topics, using the approved language, tagging using the approved tags (must be political, unless relating to White Sox).... generally numbing our creativity with top-down authoritarian Botox.

Ah well. If you feel rebellious, why not create a diary entry using Kos-styled "bullshit tags" like "Botox" or "Automaton". If not, I'll get my coat and leave quietly. And if some Trusted User edits away the tags on this story just because I'm not a good enough little automaton, then I guess we'll really know how the blogosphere operates.

Update: woohoo, thanks for the tags! and especially the sweet potato souffle recipe --- de.licio.us (little tag joke for you there). Now, some of you kids seem to think I'm an asshole/freeper/warmonger for voicing dissent as to the operation of this website, and to you I have no response, cos you're too drunk on your first taste of virtual community to even hear what I'm saying. However, as for the frantic editing of my tags, I applaud you guys, you've totally proved my point! Tag culture is not to be cramp'd, cribb'd or confined; it is vibrant, alive and free! Keep editing away, and don't forget to vote on the poll.

Second update: while my original diary was frivolous (though many bottom-feeders seem to have taken it extremely literally), lono accurately nailed the central issue in the comments, quoting the difficulty peer-reviewed journals have with self-regulating tags (aka Subject Words, Keywords, etc.) In scientific informatics (my field) the debate is between rigidly controlled vocabularys (like the Dewey system used by libraries) or freeform search engines (like Google). The point being that if you have a freeform self-regulated tag system, and then criticise users for being too freeform and not self-regulated the way you like, you deserve to have a little fun poked.

As for all those of you who couldn't see the fun in this post, and hurled insults: you made my day. The frantic tag-editing was just great. A few of you got the joke, but for many of you, either my humor's too dry, or you're too serious, or maybe a little of both.

Originally posted to SweetPotato on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:20 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  oy. (4.00)
    maybe you should get out more.

    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    check out Daily Gotham, yo!

    by lipris on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:21:32 PM PST

    •  ditto (none)
      i'm trying to decide what kind of recipe would be best in this kind of situation...

      "Infinite love is the only truth. Everything else is illusion." -David Icke
      (-6.25 ,-4.51)

      by Dr Seuss on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:24:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Left-Right, Left-Right, Leeeeft! (none)
        Ah, if we don't have enough trouble, we can always make some.

        "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

        by SteinL on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:34:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  OK, I need a recipe for these ingredients (none)
        Eggplant
        Carrot
        Onion
        Cauliflower
        Tomato
        Potato
        Zucchini
        Mushrooms
        Garlic
        Italian Breadcrumbs
        Ground Beef
        ... and if you can fit Pears in there, so much the better.

        (I just went to the store, and now it's time to do something for dinner.)

        Who's got the chefbrain working?

        •  why not check (none)
          the dkos Trollhouse Cookbook?!

          I seem to remember seeing several recipies that would be useful with most of those ingredients!!

        •  Best I can do (none)
           
          BRAISED EGGPLANT WITH ONION AND TOMATO

          Active time: 20 min Start to finish: 1 3/4 hr
          click photo to enlarge

          6 small Italian eggplants (2 lb total)
          2 medium onions, cut lengthwise into 1/4-inch-thick wedges
          1/4 cup plus 3 tablespoons extra-virgin olive oil
          1 large tomato, coarsely chopped, plus 1 1/2 cups drained chopped tomatoes from stuffed tomatoes
          1/3 cup chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley
          1/3 cup chopped fresh basil
          3 tablespoons fresh lemon juice
          1 tablespoon plus 2 teaspoons sugar
          1 teaspoon salt
          1/3 cup water

          Preheat oven to 400°F.
          Halve eggplants lengthwise and score flesh 1/2 inch deep in a crosshatch pattern to make 1-inch squares (do not cut through skin). Arrange eggplant halves, cut sides up, in a large roasting pan and season with salt.

          Cook onions in 3 tablespoons oil in a large nonstick skillet over moderate heat, stirring occasionally, until softened, about 10 minutes. Remove skillet from heat and stir in tomatoes, parsley, basil, lemon juice, 2 teaspoons sugar, and salt.

          Divide topping among eggplant halves, mounding in centers. Stir together water, remaining 1/4 cup oil, and remaining tablespoon sugar until sugar is dissolved, then add to roasting pan. Cover pan tightly with foil and bake in middle of oven, basting eggplants every 15 minutes with cooking liquid, 45 minutes. Uncover and bake until eggplants are tender (they will collapse and flatten slightly) and cooking liquid is reduced and beginning to caramelize, about 40 minutes more. Serve hot or at room temperature, drizzled with pan juices.

          Cooks' note:
          * Braised eggplant may be made 1 day ahead, then cooled completely before being chilled, covered. Bring to room temperature before serving.

          Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
          --M.L. King, Jr.

          by MasonLee on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:57:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  That's too many!!! (none)
          How about this?

          Melitzanes Papoutsakia

          6 to 8 small to medium eggplants (not longer than 5 inches and preferably thin), washed and dried
          Olive oil
          3/4 c. finely chopped onion
          1/2 lb. ground beef (You may want to use lean ground beef)
          3 large ripe tomatoes, peeled, cored, and chopped (or 4 to 5 plum tomatoes)
          2 garlic cloves, finely chopped
          1/2 c. chopped fresh parsley
          Salt and freshly ground papper to taste
          1/2 c. grated kefalotyri or Parmesan cheese
          2 c. medium to thick bechamel sauce (recipe follows)
          1/2 c. plain bread crumbs

          Cut off eggplant stems and discard. Cut eggplants in half lenghtwise. With a teaspoon or small sharp knife, very gently remove pulp, discarding seeds and being careful not to tear or puncture eggplant skin. (Leave shells about 1/8 inch thick).

          Chop the eggplant pulp. In a large heavy skillet, heat 2 to 3 Tbl. olive oil and saute onion until it turns translucent. Add eggplant pulp and stir with a spoon for 2 to 3 minutes. Add ground meat and continue to saute until meat is lightly browned. Add tomatoes, garlic, parsley, salt and pepper. Reduce heat, add a little water to the skillet, and simmer until the liquid is absorbed, 7 to 10 minutes. Remove and cool slightly.

          In another large skillet, heat 3 to 4 Tbl. olive oil and quickly saute eggplant havles on both sides, just to soften. (Since eggplants absorb so much oil, you may need to replenish skillet with a little more.) Remove eggplant from skillet and drain on paper towels.

          Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Place eggplant halves in a large ovenproof casserole dish. Sprinkle a little grated cheese into each half, then spoon in meat mixture, until eggplants are heaping. Spoon a generous amount of bechmel sauce over eggplants (about 2 Tbl. per half). Sprinkle with bread crumbs and remaining grated cheese and bake until eggplants are soft and bechmel is pleasantly gold and thickened. Remove casserole from oven and serve warm.

          Yield: 6 to 8 servings

          Medium Thick Bechamel Sauce

          2 Tbl. butter
          2 Tbl. all-purpose flour
          1 c. milk. at room temperature or slightly warmed
          Salt and freshly ground black pepper, to taste
          Grating or pinch of nutmeg
          1 to 3 egg yolks (optional)

          In a medium saucepan, melt butter over low heat; do not brown. Add flour and stir to blend with a whisk or spoon. Cook over low heat for 3 to 5 minutes, until flour no longer tastes raw. Slowly add milk over low heat and stir continously with a spoon or wire whisk until sauce is creamy, still liquid, but quite thick.

          (This will take 10 to 20 minutes, depending on the strangth of the heat.) Remove from heat and stir in salt, pepper, and nutmeg. Cool slightly before adding in egg yolks with a spoon or whisk.

          "Our attitude was- the revolution can't start until we find our hair gel." Joe Strummer

          by histopresto on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:05:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  There's something missing (none)
      Sorry to hijack the beginning of the diary, but...

      Where's the tip jar?

      This diary desperately needs a tip jar.

      -dms

    •  maybe i should.... (4.00)
      maybe you should get out more.

      Ha! This is the most fun I've had since alt.nuke.the.USA.

  •  "Get yourself an outfit... (none)
    and be a cowboy, too."

    If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane.

    by flem snopes on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:22:04 PM PST

  •  this is a joke right? (none)
    Perhaps I'm too use to the high school students I teach, for whom everything is a joke.
  •  If you hate Dkos so much (4.00)
    why don't you just start your own blog?

    Or is Dkos, in your view, some kind of precious national resouce at this point that needs to be taken over through eminent domain and restored to it's primitive state?

  •  Dude (4.00)
    dontcha think you're taking this a bit too far?  

    I mean, with all of the bullshit to complain about in this fucked up world, you are bitching about Kos's request to use usable tags?  Lame.  

    Delete this diary, before you embarass yourself even more.  

  •  Rebellious (none)
    If you're really ragging Kos, then why don't you really rebel and start your own damn site..
  •  You are what you eat (4.00)
    Smothered Chicken

    Smothered chicken is an icon of Southern cooking because it is simple to cook for a large family. Serve it with rice or mashed potatoes. It's the perfect comfort food!

    Makes 4 servings

    Ingredients:

        5 tablespoons vegetable oil
        one 4 pound chicken, cut into 8 pieces, skin removed
        salt and freshly ground black pepper
        1/3 cup all-purpose flour
        3 fresh turkey sausages, casing removed (8 ounces)
        1 medium onion, finely chopped
        1 celery rib, finely chopped
        1 small green bell pepper, seeded and chopped
        2 cups chicken broth or canned low-sodium broth
        1 medium tomato, seeded and chopped
        chopped fresh parsley, for garnish
        cooked white rice, for serving

    Preparation:

        Heat the oil in a large skillet over medium-high heat until very hot. Season the chicken with salt and pepper. Place the flour in a shallow bowl and roll the chicken in the flour to coat, shaking off the excess. Reserve 2 tablespoons of the flour. In batches, cook the chicken in the oil, turning occasionally, until browned on all sides, about 8 minutes. Transfer to a plate.

        Pour off all but 2 tablespoons of the fat in the skillet. Add the turkey sausage and cook, breaking it up with the side of a spoon, until browned, about 5 minutes. Using a slotted spoon, transfer to the plate with the chicken.

        Pour off all but 1 tablespoon of the fat in the skillet. Add the onion, celery, and bell pepper to the skillet. Cook, stirring often, until the vegetables are browned, about 8 minutes. Sprinkle with the reserved flour, mix well, and cook until the flour is browned, about 2 minutes. Gradually whisk in the broth, and return the chicken and sausage to the skillet. Bring to a boil. Reduce the heat to low and cover. Simmer, stirring occasionally, until the chicken shows no sign of pink when pierced in the thickest part, about 40 minutes. During the last 5 minutes, sprinkle the tomato on top.

        Transfer the chicken to a deep platter. Skim the fat off the surface of the sauce and season the sauce with salt and pepper to taste. Pour over the chicken and sprinkle with the parsley. Serve the chicken hot, with the rice.

    "Lash those conservatives and traitors with the pen of gall and wormwood -- let them feel -- no temporising!" -- Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1837

    by Ivan on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:24:41 PM PST

  •  Kos Pootie is not! amused.....;) (4.00)

    ...with night falling, and down to his last flair, can Armando keep the coyotes at bay?...

    by PhillyGal on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:25:32 PM PST

  •  Have a recipe! (4.00)

    Tang Pie

    1 9-inch graham cracker crust, baked.
    1 14-oz can sweetened condensed milk
    1 8-oz carton sour cream
    1/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons Tang powder.  
    1 8-oz tub Cool Whip.

    1. Mix the milk, sour cream, and Tang together.  
    2. Fold in half of the Cool Whip.
    3. Spoon into the pie shell.  
    4. Top with the rest of the Cool Whip.
    5. Chill.

    "Our attitude was- the revolution can't start until we find our hair gel." Joe Strummer

    by histopresto on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:26:51 PM PST

  •  Hey (none)
    it his site.  He can do what the fuck he wants, including close it down.  Sorry, dude.  Go to Redstate and tell THEM how to run their site.  See how long it takes for them to shut down your account.

    Republicans - For Saddam until they were against him.

    by calipygian on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:27:59 PM PST

  •  Let me guess (none)
    You added an inane tag to some diary, accomplishing nothing except adding a bit of clutter to the tag screen.

    Someone deleted said tag after kos requested some restraint in tag use.

    You got all pissy about it.

    Some advice: Grow up.

    -dms

    •  strange (none)
      that you should think that. Actually, I just found Kos' comment a little authoritarian, so I commented on that. Why, does your sense of self-esteem come mainly from how people respond to you on this site?
      •  Where are you coming from? (4.00)
        Upthread, you say that this is all a big joke, and thanks for getting it, and here you're saying you're sick of the horrible authoritarian rules that Kos is cruelly asking us all to respect.  

        Satire or doofus diary?  Make up your mind.

        "Passing the gun from father to feckless son; We're climbing a landslide where only the good die young." Leaders of the Free World - Elbow

        by Dave Brown on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:07:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  sick, horrible & cruel... (none)
          ...are your words... and you're welcome to them (they suit you).

          As I said, I saw Kos' comments as authoritarian and even slightly ridiculous, so I went ahead and ridiculed them.

          The fact that people like you get all inflamed at such ridicule only makes it all the more salient.

      •  No, (none)
        you posted a whiny rant about "why can't I do everything I want", and when people started mocking you, you tried to save yourself by saying "oh, it was all just a joke ha ha ha."

        -dms

  •  I'm clueless about tags, but I know about recipes (none)
    Recipes have a specific use, and it's not for censuring people who are impassioned about this forum and express that passion in a way you do not approve of.

    "He's a REAL cowboy, with his makeup on..." --Blaze Foley

    by since1969 on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:28:40 PM PST

  •  Not sure what your problem is (4.00)
    Kos isn't asking you to edit the content of your message.  Tags are there for a reason.  They are meant to aid in retrieval of information.  Having been in the information science field for 23 years, I can vouch for the value that proper categorization has on information retrieval. Without standardization, the use of tags becomes meaningless.  

    If you don't like using standardized tags, I suggest you don't use tags at all.  Myself, I think it is a valuable feature.  Why you are upset that someone is recommending you properly use a feature that will make it easier to retrive information puzzles me.  It's fine to be cute and snarky in our diaries and comments...we all love trying to outdo each other...I certainly do (although usually unsucessfully).  But to create alot of extra tags that no one is going to use to do actual retrieval...I don't understand why that bothers you.

    explain how sending young people into battle without armoured vehicles is supporting the troops?

    by bluestatesam on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:29:52 PM PST

    •  No problem, but tags will only work if voluntary (4.00)
      Kos isn't asking you to edit the content of your message.... If you don't like using standardized tags, I suggest you don't use tags at all.

      Hmmm, what I thought he was doing was asking users to cut other peoples' tags if they thought they were out of line. Of course standardized information is a useful thing, but there is a question as to whether the standardization is voluntary or imposed.

      •  Hiya SweetPotato! (none)
        I have to say, I'm giving you a big old 4 because this is the best thread I've seen all day. Thanks!!!

        (and have some pie...)

        "Our attitude was- the revolution can't start until we find our hair gel." Joe Strummer

        by histopresto on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:51:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Tags will only work (none)
        if people voluntarily use SENSIBLE ones.  Otherwise, you're unnecessarily taking up memory.

        As lipris said above, if this is an issue for you,
        get out more!  Jeebus lord! you make it sound as if he asked all the women to wear burkas or something!

        Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official... ~Theodore Roosevelt

        by caseynm on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:55:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  that said (none)
      i have to own up to being the one responsible for the tag "poopie haid"

      i'm sorry.  i don't know what came over me.

      explain how sending young people into battle without armoured vehicles is supporting the troops?

      by bluestatesam on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:49:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Recipe: (none)
    Shit Sandwich

    You will need:

    • Shit
    • 2 slices of bread (white or wheat)
    • Butter knife

    Preparation:
    Using butter knife, spread shit on one slice of the bread, to desired thickness.  Cover with other piece of bread.  Enjoy!
  •  Clearly this guy has important priorities. (none)
    I mean, it's not like we're at war or anything...

    "If only lies had semen stains..." -- Jon Stewart

    by HollywoodOz on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:30:45 PM PST

  •  Sweet Potato Souffle (4.00)

    INGREDIENTS:

        * 3 cups cooked and mashed sweet potatoes
        * 3/4 cup white sugar
        * 1/3 cup butter, softened
        * 2 1/3 eggs
        * 1 teaspoon vanilla extract
        * 1/2 cup milk
        * 1 cup flaked coconut
        * 1/3 cup all-purpose flour
        * 1 cup packed brown sugar
        * 1 cup chopped nuts
        * 1/3 cup melted butter

    DIRECTIONS:

       1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C).
       2. Combine the mashed sweet potatoes with the white sugar, soft butter or margarine, beaten eggs, vanilla and milk. Spoon into a 2 quart oven proof baking dish.
       3. Combine the coconut, flour, brown sugar, chopped nuts and melted butter. Sprinkle over the top of the sweet potatoes.
       4. Bake at 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) for 30 to 35 minutes.

    If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane.

    by flem snopes on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:31:21 PM PST

  •  Wait. (4.00)
    Is this a parody diary? This has got to be the silliest diary entry in the history of Kos.

    Down with the Man!!!

  •  on a totally related note (none)
    has any one checked out the peace baby ad on the side bar? Some pretty neat stuff. If only I had a baby to buy it for.
  •  You just knew (4.00)
    this one was going to generate a bunch of fun tags.

    Practically speaking, it's not censorship, it's utility. We need the tags because the search function sucks, and the tags work better in place of search when they aren't all cluttered up with junk.

    That's all.

  •  So funny! (none)
    The tag(s) on this post change every few seconds.

    The Truth is the engine of our judicial system. --Patrick Fitzgerald

    by pucklady on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:33:35 PM PST

  •  Oh no this is just the start (none)
    I can see the future:

    • Diaries about tags (this one)
    • Diaries responding to diaries about tags.
    • Diaries responding to diaries responding to diaries about tags, until we get the
    • Diaries about Meta Jesus crying over tag wars.

    Here we go.

    Alito is Extraordinary.

    by NYC Sophia on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:40:01 PM PST

  •  just a practical matter (4.00)
    tags are suppose to be USEFUL to find topics already diaried, etc. cuz...you might have noticed that a lot of diaries get duplicated.??
  •  ok, i thought kos' post was a little lame (none)
    but it might actually be a little issue called "application performance" which could be hindered by a sprawling tags table in the database. io'm not saying it is, just that it could be.
    •  That just proves tags don't work (none)
      it might actually be a little issue called "application performance"

      Fair enough, but lono had the right idea below. This problem (indeed this thread) is just evidence that tags aren't scaleable.

      I work in bioinformatics, and this is a perennial debate in analysing the exponentially-growing bioinformatics literature. Basically there are two solutions. Either you go for a fully top-down controlled vocabulary, or you avoid tags completely and use search engines instead.

      Search engines are better, which is why Del.Icio.Us will never outpace Google.

  •  Damn (4.00)
    Still can't cook

    But if you ever need a hint on how to do a rainflow analysis on data, here you go:

        Do Until NEXT_POINT = NumberPoints + 1
            'STEP 1:  If there are less than 3 data points, load in a third and shift starting point accordingly
            'there will never be less than 2, so don't need to put this in loop
            If PointsBeingUsed < 3 Then
                PointsBeingUsed = PointsBeingUsed + 1
                ReDim Preserve CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed)
                CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed) = NEXT_POINT
                NEXT_POINT = NEXT_POINT + 1
            End If
            'STEP 2: Form ranges from Y and X Lines
            Z = CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed) 'always Array upper bound
            X = CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed - 1) 'always Array upper bound - 1
            Y = CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed - 2) 'always Array upper bound - 2
            S = CurrentlyUsedPoints(1) ' always first in array
            XRange = Abs(DataPoints(X) - DataPoints(Z))
            YRange = Abs(DataPoints(Y) - DataPoints(X))
            'Step 3: compare range to check for a cycle
            If XRange < YRange Then
                PointsBeingUsed = PointsBeingUsed + 1
                ReDim Preserve CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed)
                CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed) = NEXT_POINT
                NEXT_POINT = NEXT_POINT + 1
            Else
                If Y = S Then 'range Y is a half cycle
                    'pointsbeing used should be 3
                    'remove first point from array
                    Debug.Print "Half Cycle Reached:"
                    Debug.Print "Number of points: " & PointsBeingUsed
                    For X = 2 To PointsBeingUsed
                        CurrentlyUsedPoints(X - 1) = CurrentlyUsedPoints(X)
                    Next X
                    PointsBeingUsed = PointsBeingUsed - 1
                    rfMATRIX.AddHalfCycle YRange, Y, X
                    ReDim Preserve CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed)
                Else 'range y is full cycle
                    'number of points should be 5, but check anyway
                    Debug.Print "Full Cycle Reached:"
                    Debug.Print "Number of points: " & PointsBeingUsed
                    rfMATRIX.AddFullCycle YRange, Y, X
                    'remove points X and Y
                    CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed - 2) = Z
                    PointsBeingUsed = PointsBeingUsed - 2
                    ReDim Preserve CurrentlyUsedPoints(PointsBeingUsed)
                    'Y = S
                    'X = Z
                End If
            End If
        Loop
        'finished, write matrix to file
        rfMATRIX.WriteMatrixToFile ("c:testMATRIX1.csv")

    In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move.

    by Closet VB Coder on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:43:59 PM PST

  •  just in time for christmas (none)
    Russian Communist Tea Cakes

    1 cup butter
    1 teaspoon vanilla extract
    6 tablespoons confectioners sugar
    2 cups all-purpose flour
    1 cup chopped walnuts
    1/3 cup confectioners' sugar

    Preheat oven to 350 degrees.
    Cream butter and vanilla until smooth.
    Combine 6 tablespoons confectioners sugar and flour and stir into the butter mixture until just blended.
    Mix in the chopped walnuts.
    Roll dough into 1 inch balls and place on an ungreased cookie sheet.
    Bake for 12 minutes.
    Let them cool down.
    Roll twice in remaining confectioners sugar.

    "Remember, we are here but by the grace of plate tectonics... Just some perspective, apply it to your idealogies as you will." -- read in a comment by roboton

    by DoDi on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:44:04 PM PST

    •  i dont get it.... (none)
      how the heck can a tea cake be a communist?

      "if all the world's a stage, who is sitting in the audience?"

      by KnotIookin on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:14:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  actually (none)
        they're called Russian Tea Cakes (or alternatively Mexican Wedding Cookies).

        You've probably seen them, they're traditional for Xmas:

        "Remember, we are here but by the grace of plate tectonics... Just some perspective, apply it to your idealogies as you will." -- read in a comment by roboton

        by DoDi on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:38:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  my Mom made those, but, (none)
          being Ukrainian, we'd sooner choke them call them Commie Cookies ;)

          They're very! tasty -- lovely w/tea and coffee.

          ...with night falling, and down to his last flair, can Armando keep the coyotes at bay?...

          by PhillyGal on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:00:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  This is why we need a (none)
    "negative recommend option" here... to sink sheeyat like this into the nether basement of the cyber world.

    we now know a lot of things, most of which, we already knew... (-dash888) -8.25; -6.41

    by Tirge Caps on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:44:21 PM PST

  •  I was thinking (none)
    "jeez what a tight-ass" too...when I read the diary...but before everyone freaks out...I do agree with Kos that tags should be carefully kept up because we want to be able to search for things and actually find them...

    I do think that people can have some fun with tags though...I mean, as long as they change them back after the fun is done.

    Sorry...I just thought I'd be a bit serious since everyone else was being all "jokey"...

  •  You're a fine one to talk. (4.00)
    How would you know about all this? You're not credible, because you have not participated very much at all. If you want to get some good out of this place, you need to participate, not just sit in the back of the caboose and complain all the time.

    You have exactly two diaries and three posts here. This diary was just written to create conflict.

    •  I'm suspecting (4.00)
      that this is the current incarnation of a poster who's been around for a long time and been banned more than once. I could be wrong, but the title gives it away to me.
    •  "You're not credible" indeed (none)
      How would you know about all this?

      Yeah, well... one might wistfully hope that the content of one's posts would be more relevant than the past quantity. As it happens, I do know a fair bit about this kind of thing, as I work in bioinformatics, where the debate between tagging and search engines has gone on a long time.

      •  Well, you need to make things clearer. (none)
        I didn't know you were engaging in humor; you might want to tag your diaries as such or use <snark></snark> next time.
        •  Maybe a laugh track too? (none)
          I can also get one of those big neon signs that flashes "APPLAUSE", if you like.

          Once was enough. It was fun to watch the earnest types yap themselves into an indignant frenzy; for those discerning few who recognise something funny without needing signposts, this was a good thread. I wouldn't do it again because I'm too fond of these dumb Kossacks to pull a real alt.syntax.tactical. And I certainly wouldn't add snark tags..... jeezus, mohamed and siddartha, no.

          Once was plenty....

  •  Lock Stepfording w/o Thinking (none)
    Boy, this is going to get me some more recipes.

    Sweetpotato has made a serious and significant point.  Self-tagging is highly problematic, ask any editor of a peer-reviewed journal that insists on a subject word list.

    In addition to the added burden and limited usefulness, modern search engine technology that use weighted associative functions (i.e. assigned relevance based on non-inclusive words commonly used in association with words in an article), not only eliminates the problems of self tagging but provides better results.

    The kossacks who instantly flamed this diary have demonstrated the worst traits of a mob.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ / -LONO- ® \ | Disjecta Membra | | Belligerati R.C. | \ San Francisco / \

    by lono on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:50:31 PM PST

    •  Do you have a preference on the recipes? (none)
      OK, dammit, you're right, but it's been a long week. So far, I've ignored the First Amendment rights of posters and removed the many spellings of "douchebag" more times than I want to count. To be overly mature about it, so THERE!

      "Our attitude was- the revolution can't start until we find our hair gel." Joe Strummer

      by histopresto on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:55:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  wow, i'm a little stunned (1.33)
      but thanks for the affirmation!

      sigh someone isn't an easily-trolled idiot. great stuff.

      •  Whoops! Changed my mind now. (none)
        Have a zero.  Just for fun.

        "Our attitude was- the revolution can't start until we find our hair gel." Joe Strummer

        by histopresto on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:14:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I came for the irony... (none)
        ... but I stayed for the hockey game.  Two remarks you made, Sweet Potato, highlighted the institutional immaturity of your critics.  

        1. Most don't know spirit of usenet, SlashDot, etc... they've never experienced a real user community and, unfortunately, fear dissent in this small pond they've settled in.

        2. Most know nothing of bioinformatics and damn little of search technology.  kos may not have the bucks for the best technology, but it is currently available.

        Self-tagging will fail here, but I'm going to enjoy watching all the self-appointed Tag Nazis try to shove us into their EasyBake ovens.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ / -LONO- ® \ | Disjecta Membra | | Belligerati R.C. | \ San Francisco / \

        by lono on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 05:46:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  BTW.... (none)

          Shouldn't kos make the switch to Daylight Savings Time before he kvetches about tag abuse?  

          ... or is that asking too much of technology too?  

          Excuse me while I open up my PC and turn the CPU back an hour.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ / -LONO- ® \ | Disjecta Membra | | Belligerati R.C. | \ San Francisco / \

          by lono on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 05:52:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Or perhaps the Kossacks were just (none)
      blowing off steam.  This has been a truly horrible week for me, and reading all these snarky comments and adding my own has been a welcome respite from all the crap.

      Move along. There's nothing to see here.

      by jules too on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:12:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good grief (4.00)
    Is there something on this site that doesn't offend someone?  Leaving because the owner of this site does not want junk tags cluttering up his site and wasting his server space is about the goofiest thing I've ever heard.  Other than "President George W. Bush", of course.

    It's not a grand vision.  It's keeping his house clean.

  •  Stepford Wife? (none)
    I prefer Bride of Frankenstein.

    It's Markos' bandwidth.  No argument here.  I make it a rule not to go into someone's house and pee on the houseplants.

    But that's just me.

    "Ninety-nine miles of solid-gold track, lay on the whistle and don't look back..."

    by InquisitiveRaven on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:51:53 PM PST

    •  No offense but... (2.66)
      "It's Markos' bandwidth" is a very lame argument. He gets paid for the blogads. Million hits a day from user-generated content. I love what he's done with this site, and I don't mean to piss on anyone's houseplants. I recognise he's created the environment that made those million hits possible. However, the idea that dissenting opinions should be stamped upon is very foolish. Go check out sites like Slashdot some time -- or read some history about Usenet and the way talk forums on the Internet evolved.
      •  Ummmm (4.00)
        Using the tag function properly has absolutely zero to do with dissent or conformity.   If you want to dissent then use the diary and comment function to voice your dissent.

        The tag function is purely and completely about practicality, not ideology.

        Gimme a break.

        George W. Bush, Resign NOW.

        by tlh lib on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:18:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not practical... (none)
          ...if tags don't work. And telling people off on the front page becausse they're not using tags "correctly" just looks silly.
          •  Tags work just fine (none)
            If the community uses tags in a practical way that adheres to the entire purpose of tags then they work exactly as they're supposed to. When people don't adhere to it then it takes away from their usefulness.  What's even sillier is you taking Markos' words as "telling people off".   Somebody needs a xanax.

            Just for the sake of putting your comments in perspective....here is Markos "telling off" the community.

            Update: btw, a reminder that the tags are meant to be used as a categorization tool. They're not supposed to be used as a place for editorial comments. Take this diary as an example, about Laura Bush. The tags are: Stepford wife, Laura Bush, Automaton, Prince Charles, Camilla, Botox. Will anyone every search for "stepford wife"? "Automaton"? Even "botox" (on a political site)? No!

            So please, try to use existing tags. If you are creating a new tag, make sure it's a legitimate tag. And if you are a trusted user and see bullshit tags like the ones above, please edit accordingly. The success of the tagging feature depends on proper categorization.

            So what's sillier?   Markos' polite request that people use the tags in a proper way so that the function will be useful for categorization?  Or you thinking that he just told people off in an authoritarian manner.

            Good stuff Potato lol.
            Pretty harsh words of authoritarianism coming from Markos there.  

            George W. Bush, Resign NOW.

            by tlh lib on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 05:37:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Classic Onion Piece (4.00)
    Swift Boat Veterans Still Hounding Kerry

    November 24, 2004 | Issue 40*47

    BOSTON--Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, a group that gained national prominence in the months before the 2004 election, announced Monday that it will continue its campaign "to set the record straight about John Kerry."

    "We've made great progress in spreading the truth about John Kerry's treasonous past, but our job isn't over just because he lost the presidency," said John O'Neill, founding member of the Swift Vets and author of Unfit For The Community, a new book arguing that Kerry's Vietnam service record indicates that he would make a dangerous neighbor. "John Kerry is a threat to every American he comes in contact with, whether he's running for president, getting his oil changed, or going to a movie with his wife."

    Although many expected the Swift Vets' campaign to end when Bush was re-elected, a spokesman for the group said its efforts have only begun.

    "Just because that lying, cheating, opportunistic fraud from Massachusetts happened to be the Democratic presidential nominee, people assumed our efforts were politically motivated," said retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, chairman of Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. "Well, Kerry's loss to George W. Bush does not undo the deeds of his youth."

    Hoffman added: "We humble servants of truth will not stop until citizens are throwing garbage at John Kerry when they see him at the park."

    here's the rest of it...fuckin hilarious shit

    George W. Bush, Resign NOW.

    by tlh lib on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:53:35 PM PST

  •  Sometimes (none)
    you're the apprentice.

    Sometimes you're the bear.

    And sometimes you're the stick ...

  •  My Favorite (4.00)
    My favorite bullshit "tag":  SweetPotato.

    "I wasn't lying! I was writing fiction with my mouth!" -- Homer Simpson

    by Vico on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:58:07 PM PST

  •  Of all the things you could've diaried (4.00)
    <headshake>you diary about this, instead of complaining in the open thread wherein Kos made the statement.</headshake>

    In prison, Tom Delay will no doubt be called 'the Hummer' by his fellow convicts.

    by soonergrunt on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:58:37 PM PST

  •  ummmm.... (none)
    "you're too drunk on your first taste of virtual community"...no offense...but there's been so much fucking sense of community around here I feel like most of you may just be like my family...metajesus is fricken tired already...
  •  Sweet Potato Sausage Balls (4.00)
    Sweet Potato Sausage Balls

    INGREDIENTS:

        * 3 cups biscuit mix
        * 1 cup sharp cheddar cheese, shredded
        * 2 cups sweet potatoes, mashed
        * 1 pound sausage

    PREPARATION:
    Combine all ingredients well. Shape into balls and place on greased baking sheet with sides. Bake at 350° for 20 minutes, until brown.

    If we stick any more forks in Bush, he's going to look like a satellite.

    by acuppajo on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:59:27 PM PST

  •  As Tempted As I Am To Post a Recipe . . . (none)
    and you should get the TrollHouse Cookbook (I have three in there  :)  ), for sure, let the librarian speak:

    It's called a controlled vocabulary.  It's a way to easily find articles indexed and grouped.  While in time the vocabulary will most certainly grow and will probably need to be organized in some type of hierarchy or be attributed to proper cross references, it can turn into overkill and could possibly have an effect of slowing down servers that already have high traffic.

    As fun as it is to have all types of terms, I'd vote for controlled vocabulary, myself.  Let's assist everyone in finding relevant posts rather than having a series of runaway terms.  

  •  Okay... (none)
    "The Weepening" is a REALLY funny tag...lol!
  •  I odn't see this as (4.00)
    a free speech issue, but as  merely trying to create a usable cataloguing system. It's jsut hosuekeeping.
    DO you also resent the Dewey Decimal System becasue ytou don't get to decide what terms are used?

    Maybe it's the librarian in me, but sorry, I don't see this as a real issue. If you were told youc ouldn't complain about it--THEN you'd have a point. But your diary wasn't made to go away.

    And frankly, as a woman, I resented the sneers at Laura Bush's appearance--or Camilla's.  I don't much care for La Bush, but if she wants to have Botox and pays for it out of her own money, that's not my business.And I am REAL tired of snotty comments about the looks of older women.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:54:32 PM PST

    •  I'm with ya on this one (none)
      I used to argue with people who would call Camilla an old bag. Sure she's of a "certain age" but where does that give people the right to bash her?  And actually I think she is a fine-looking woman.

      Interestingly, they never made comments about Prince Charles.  I mean, come ON!!

      I'm a 52 year old guy, by the way.  I certainly don't look the same as I did at 25, but as a man I don't have to endure snarky comments about my bald haid and saggy face.  Nor should I. It's called age.  It happens.

      explain how sending young people into battle without armoured vehicles is supporting the troops?

      by bluestatesam on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:45:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am just tired of (none)
        snark at women over the age of 40 unless they are Demi Moore or resemble her.

        I rather liek Camilla.  Read a bio of her. SHe's smart, funny and has things in common with Charles--architecture, art history, horses, country life.  They've loved each other fora very long time. Let them be.

        Diana was, I suppsoe, beautiful if you like the type, but I am kinda fed up with only women under age 40 who are 6 ft tall and weigh 110 pounds being considered accepatable. Personally I think there are a lot of ways women can be beautiful, fromt he lush curves of Queen Latifah to the Pre_Rapahelite delicacy of Drew Barrymore to the smoulderign sexuality of Catherine Zeta Jones to the coltish looks of Julia Roberts.  And at over 65, Sophia Loren is still gorgeous. One size does not fit all.

         FOrtuantely most men aren't Bill Maher, who seems to think women over 40 should wear burqas and give up sex.  I psoed for 2 friends who are photographers at age 52, for fetish photos.  I keopt my clothes on.  Those photos were the oens singled oiut by everyone who saw them as the best, the most romantic, the sexiest of the lot (nd there were photos showing a lot more skina in much younger bodies).  Myhsuband is 7 years younger than me, and he still finds me desirable, which,  actually, is all I really care about.

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 05:42:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Dewey... (none)
      ...is a top-down controlled vocabulary. That's fine: either you have top-down control (like Dewey), or a freeform search engine (like Google). Attempting to have user-regulated tags simply doesn't work well. As for berating some of your users because they haven't regulated themselves the way you'd like, that's just plain silly, and worth poking fun at.
  •  Loved it!!! (none)

    Excuse my language, I've been hanging out at dailyKOS.

    by coigue on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:54:50 PM PST

  •  OMG!!! (none)
    When I went to rate a post...I suddenly had the option of troll rating!  Does this mean I'm now a TU?

    O frabulous day!

    explain how sending young people into battle without armoured vehicles is supporting the troops?

    by bluestatesam on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 04:52:45 PM PST

  •  Big Fan (none)
    of tags .. price tags, name tags, dog tags and cat tags, bunny wabbit tags .. tired of HTML/Java tags .. don't like toe tags, unless placed on political careers

    whole diary/thread described by one tag

    <snark>

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