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(From the diaries -- kos)

Too funny! Hastert and Frist make a big show of calling for an investigation into a leak allegedly affecting national security -- the locations of secret "black site" torture prisons. And then -- BOOM!!! Lott just said, Tuesday afternoon, that he thinks it was a GOP Senator who leaked the info to the Washington Post last week. He says the details had been discussed at a GOP Senators-only meeting last week, and that many of those details made it into the WaPo story.

Money quote from Lott; "We can not remain silent. We have met the enemy, and it is us."

All just reported on CNN. We are, folks, witnessing the full-on implosion of the national Republican Party. And not a second too soon.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:30 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Oh, how delicious! (4.00)
    I love the taste of irony.  Lott still sees Frist's chair as rightfully belonging to him.  Must rankle.
    •  It's not irony, (4.00)
      it's a knife in the back.

      Lott clearly holds a grudge against Frist, Rove, and everyone else who engineered his fall from power. This is a blatant stab at Frist.
      Lott bloodied his knife against Rove last week by suggesting that Rove needs to resign; apparently, he's getting fond of the taste of Republican blood.

      -dms

      •  Lott's Money Quote re Thurmond & the South! (none)
        "I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either," Lott said at Strom Thurmond's 100th birthday party.

        How do you blame Lott's downfall on anyone but Trent Lott? It wasn't Rove or Frist who expressed nostalgia for the Jim Crow South.

        George Bush doesn't care about Black people.... and Andrea Mitchell doesn't care about the Truth....

        by DeanFan84 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:10:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not who we blame his fall on... (4.00)
          it's who LOTT blames his fall on. He felt very betrayed after that quote. Because he thinks he just said what any good southern Republican in his position would have said.
          •  New Thread, please (none)
            Sorry to hijack the top of the discussion, but this story is heading for 400 comments, and I can't be the only one whose computer is getting a bit bogged down.

            Can a front-pager please create a new open thread or something?

            -dms

          •  And (none)
            When the Republicans turn on each other, it is still interesting to see despite whose fault it actually was as all are complicit in one fashion or another.

            America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

            by wishingwell on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:21:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Another question (4.00)
              Why is it that only Republicans get access to this information?

              Ignoring the question of whether the Executive Branch should be keeping such secrets from the American people, this still raises serious issues.  If the Executive Branch chooses to share information with a House of Congress, that's one thing.  But to only share this secret information with one party of a House of Congress?

              I didn't realize that there was a 4th branch of government called the GOP.

          •  A couple of quotes from (none)
            Frist's book

            "I consider Frist's power grab a personal betrayal," the book says. "When he entered the Senate in 1995, I had taken him under my wing. ... He was my protege and I helped him get plum assignments and committee positions."

            "He[Bush] said he felt bad about rumors that the administration was undermining me, and was proud of how I had handled my decision to surrender my office," Lott writes. "I will always remember my response clearly: 'Thank you, Mr. President, but the rumors did hurt me and you didn't help when you could have.' "
        •  Trent produced the rope (4.00)
          But Rove made the noose. No doubt about it.

          "She was very young,he thought,...she did not understand that to push an inconvenient person over a cliff solves nothing." -1984

          by aggressiveprogressive on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:16:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  on ACCURACY (none)
            I still am not seeing where Trent Lott supposedly claimed a Republican leaked it

            If you don't want it printed, don't let it happen.

            by EZ writer on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:33:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Here's one link (none)
              http://abcnews.go.com/...

              Mississippi Republican Sen. Trent Lott told reporters he thought information for the story may have come from a Republican Senate staffer.

              "There's no question that there was a discussion to a Washington Post reporter by a staff person who apparently knew everything that went on there last Tuesday," Lott said, referring to a Senate Republican meeting last week.

              "I just think we spend too much time around here chasing rabbits," Lott said. "You give 10 senators information it's going to get out, so what are you going to prove here?"

              If this is accurate, the chain of information went briefing->Senator->Senate staffer->WaPo reporter.

              -dms

        •  Lott himself is certainly culpable (4.00)
          He did, as you say, look back fondly at Jim Crow. But I think he would have survived as Majority Leader if the rest of the Senate GOP had stood by him, saying things along the lines of "Trent was honoring the birthday of a grand old man, and did not mean that he wished we were back in the dark days of segregation".

          Once Lott stuck his foot in his mouth, the White House (aka Rove) used the controversy as a lever to force him out, replacing him with the more tractable (and considerably dumber) Bill Frist.

          -dms

          •  This is EXACTLY right (4.00)
            Here's to the Considerably Dumber Bill Frist and his  idiotic handling of the Terry Schiavo issue! I see that as the chink in the armor that opened up the Republicans to all the real damage they're currently suffering. And now they're committing hari kare.

            BraVO!

            -- I share no man's opinions; I have my own. -t -6.75 -3.79

            by tergenev on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:41:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have had the same thought... (4.00)
              That is, that the Republican machine jumped the shark when they publicly whored themselves out to the religious right in the whole Schiavo affair. It has been all downhill ever since then for them
            •  picking a nit (none)
              Hara-Kiri is not the actual Japanese term.  Ritual suicide was seppuku and usually a very solemn ceremony

              We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

              by ScrewySquirrel on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:07:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  yes and no (none)
                hara kiri is the kun yomi (japanese reading) of the same characters as seppuku , which is the on yomi (chinese reading). but seppuku would be the more proper way to say it.

                either way i'd love to see them all go down on their swords, literally, for what they've done. if they had any sense of honor, they would (not holding my breath).

                crimson gates reek with meat and wine/while on the streets, bones of the frozen dead -du fu (712-770)

                by wu ming on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:22:29 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Spot on... (none)
                  besides.. Hara-Kiri would always get falling down drunk by the 7th inning and you could barely understand the old sod when he would lead the crowd in singing "take me out to the ball game".

                  ;-)

                  It's funny how he became tied in so many people's mind with the Chicago Cubs. He broadcast for the White Sox in the old Comiskey Park for ages before he moved to doing the commentary for Cubs and "sobered up".

                  He will always be the fall-down lush of the South-side in my mind.

                  cheers,

                  Mitch Gore

                  Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                  by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:39:45 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  heh (none)
                    never made that connection before.

                    crimson gates reek with meat and wine/while on the streets, bones of the frozen dead -du fu (712-770)

                    by wu ming on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:42:16 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I should have known better (none)
                      I knew when I threw out that term, I'd hear about it. I admit it. I know very little about Japanese suicidal rituals, or for that matter, Chicago baseball announcers.

                      Still, I do know my favorite color and the air flight speed of an unladen European swallow. So, I don't feel too diminished. :)

                      -- I share no man's opinions; I have my own. -t -6.75 -3.79

                      by tergenev on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 06:12:13 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  For me, the Cubs inarticulate announcer... (none)
                    ...will always be, Hey! Hey!, Jack Brickhouse.  

                    After growing up in Los Angeles with Vin Scully, Brickhouse was an almost perfect, ironic metaphor of my exile.  He was almost as ironic as 6 degrees below zero January weather.

                    America is suffering from Roverian cancer. I am really afraid Bush will prescribe radiation for it...

                    by waztec on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 06:27:27 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Thing is...Frist laughed when Lott said it. (4.00)
            And only after the firestorm, he called for Lott to resign his post.

            Not very loyal of Frist.

            So why not respond in kind.

            Racism?  Torture?  Secret Prisons?  It's all fair game.

            •  No thanks. I like Frist's leadership of the GOP. (none)
              He's not a very good leader and that's good for the good guys.

              Let's keep him in power making video diagnosis and almost breaking into a cry on TV about how that big bad democrat Reid stabbed him in the back and hijacked the senate.

              •  And to that (none)
                I can only add my signature line...

                Dear Senator Frist: I understand you may have been having some problems with your old asshole. I hope you enjoy the new one. Your friend, Senator Harry Reid

                by EeDan on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 07:15:17 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  What goes around comes around (n/t) (4.00)
            So much for Rove's political genius!  He's not a genius, just a thug.  He never had to do real politics -- which means working with other people in ways that advance your interest by giving them a little that advances theirs or adroitly boxing them in -- because his policy was to crush any resistance.  This works when no one expects it, but after a while people get wise and take appropriate defensive measures.

            Lott's a prick, but he was in the Senate a long time and had a certain amount of credit with his colleagues.  I won't forgive his remark about Hillary Clinton's becoming a senator, which was just plain rude and stupid, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

        •  Not the point at all (none)
        •  well, considering that this comment was made (4.00)
          by Sen. Lott to the 100th birthday of Strom Thurmond, about whose presence in the Senate apparently nobody in the US had been particularly concerned about him representing South Carolina for 10 years as a Democrat and 39 years as a Republican (this is even a bipartisan case of non-concernedness).  

          I think that Sen. Lott has a reason to "get back" at the hypocrites, who messed up with him over issues that were nothing but proxy reasons  for the people to abuse, who didn't like him. Any idiot could see that his comment was meant to be gently to an old, senile man. It was not a hard-liner's nostalgia call for segregation. That is not to say that I defend Sen. Lott's policy views, but I defend him as human being who tried to be nice to someone very old at a birthday party.

          May be Sen. Lott has gotten through a lot lately and just risks a lip to say what he wants to say.
          Good for him. Let him get back at those, who are the real danger to this country.

          •  He was civil, too (4.00)
            In general, he was civil.  He plays politics, but these GOP neocons aren't playing the same brand of politics that he was used to.  He plans to retire, and is unchained and open.  For some reason, he sees the damage that these hacks are doing to the country, and he's an American first, Republican second.  I think that's why he doesn't care, and is willing to eviscerate these crooks...it's not just revenge, I've seen the guy on interviews, he's a sharp politician, despite some of his more conservative views.  We need more policymakers like him, although I disagree with his politics, I wouldn't call him a liar.  He believes what he believes, the difference is that he has a moral compass.  Bush has been banking on that type of image for years, now, but he can't even come close.
            •  I'm not sure his morives are so pure.... (none)
              .. but I'll take it anyway I can get it.... what a hoot!  I WISH I KNEW HOW TO CONTAIN MY GLEE!

              Bill Frist WAS in a persistent, vegetative state.. until he had to call his stock broker.

              by Voxbear on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:00:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Trent Lott is a Zombie (none)
              Look,

              Why must we seek a dedeeming rationale for Lott's behavior here?  Trent Lott is not Anakin Skywalker.  He's a jackal.  He's a diabolical, highly-intelligent, racist plotting politician who was politically murdered by the other scheming criminals he led.  If Lott had any high moral calling he would have resigned in disgrace when he had the chance to vanish from the headlines.

              But no, he's living out his political third act -- this time as a walking, legislating "Undead" who is nourished only by twisted revenge fantasies.  

              Even Zombies can smell blood.

          •  It wasn't just a birthday thing... (none)
                 I don't have a link, but I seem to recall that this wasn't the first time that Trent Lott said the same thing while honoring Thurmond. I'll look it up, but it wasn't just a kindly birthday comment. He said it more than once.
            •  Sorry about replying to my own post, but... (4.00)
                   here's the link I was trying to get earlier:
              http://orig.clarionledger.com/...

              The Washington Post archive is down so I had to look for a different reference. Anyway, in 1980 when Ronald Reagan was running for President and Trent Lott was a member of the House, he said the same thing about Strom Thurmond, who was a guest at the Mississippi Reagan rally.

              I think Lott got shafted by BushCo and the GOP Senate Caucus, but largely because his racial views were known before and weren't sufficient enough to disqualify him until they really hit the news. And that's when the rats scurried from Lott's sinking ship.

        •  ah come on! frist and rove did lott in. (none)
          sure lott brought the shovel, but hell they dug the grave. these asses cover up for a lot more. it was a convenient excuse. i say gett'm lott.
      •  The Elephant In The Room - Hypocrites (4.00)
        I join in on relishing the GOP infighting here but the glaring thing thing for me is how...

        Frist and Hastert are all upset about a national security leak regarding Torture Chambers but yet...

        Neither ever said a damned thing against the outing of Plame or the lies of the administration taking us to war and this display of theirs just sheds more light on that fact.

        •  That's just it, isn't it? (none)
          He wants to position himself above it all...

          It sure will make him look good in comparison.  Maybe people will start reminiscing about when he was the leader...

          I think I MAY NEED A BATHroom break?

          by marchmoon on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:37:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No Doubt (4.00)
            Lott is just praying for Frist to take a fall for Insider Trading.

            Fine with me. Lott Can be MINORITY LEADER, no problem.

            •  gimme a hand here, help me up off the floor (none)
              I'm rolling, busting. Indeedy. Absolutely delightful.

              Joyous to see Frist once again doing cat Meows. Now, Fristie that slap in the face,... erm whiskers. It surely hurts. Ouch!!!. meow, meow.

              These guys just keep on giving. Almost as good as punches Reid delivered last last week.

              Can we spell D E L U G E.
              Can we spell I M P L O D E.

              You betcha.

              Let's stop feeding greed. In fact, propose we make it a commandment: The greedy shall not be fed.

              by idredit on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:15:31 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  and DUH the prisons (4.00)
          they hear about secret prisons and THIS is their reaction?

          First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ~~ Mohandas Gandhi

          by TimeTogether on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:53:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly (none)
            Are they upset about the prisons? No

            They are upset that their existence was leaked. Torture Lovers!

            •  I am sorry here (none)
              But aren't secret prisons against the law?  Against treaties that we have signed? Also, aren't they agains't the law in Europe? How about the EU?

              So wouldn't whistle blower laws actually apply in this case since the laws of revealing classified information actually show criminal behavior?

              •  You may Be On To Something (none)
                in regards to treaties and US law. I don't know if EU law would apply and even if it did you know BushCo would just thumb their nose at it.

                As for being protected as a whistle blower with classified info - I'm guessing that might be a bit of a stretch, but I could be wrong.

                •  Seems (none)
                  That would be the best way to test it.

                  Also, could this relevation be the "Pentagon Papers" of the Iraq War Part Deux?

                  If so, there is a legal precedent for going to the press about it.

                  This is more of a chance to rehab Cheney's image than anything. What they'll end up saying, is that these leaks happen all the time and that if we were to prosecute everyone it would be ridiculous.

                  This is an effort to minimalize what Libby did and maybe hit  McCain too.

                  •  Interesting Thoughts (none)
                    but one thing is for sure. By Frist and Hastert keeping this story going - it isn't good news for Bush.

                    After all his public credibility is in the toilet and with him saying "we don torture" and Cheney pushing for 'CIA Torture' on the same day - it just makes Bush look like more of a liar (that he is).

                    •  I think (none)
                      He actually may want to resign. This has gotten out of control.

                      Clinton always seemed like he could swim through the chaos, Bush looks like he is drowning.

                      •  Resign - could be (none)
                        I agree he feels he is in over his head. I doubt that he really wants to endure another three years of this only to be labeled a failure at the end.

                        I wouldn't be surprised if he comes up with a medical problem so he can escape from this.

                •  Probably EU law does not apply. (none)
                  Which is probably why some of the countries speculated about, Latvia for one, are most likely not the location.  Eastern Europe, several countries there that have not yet attained EU membership.  You can buy there anything you have the money for - including silence about secret prisons.

                  Dear Senator Frist: I understand you may have been having some problems with your old asshole. I hope you enjoy the new one. Your friend, Senator Harry Reid

                  by EeDan on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 07:27:16 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Actually (none)
                Whistleblower laws do not apply to members of the intelligence community. :(

                The moral values crowd is a bunch of lazy people who deep down in their hearts want the government to do their job as parents.

                by phinky on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:51:20 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Halle-fucking-lujah! n/t (none)

          Dear Senator Frist: I understand you may have been having some problems with your old asshole. I hope you enjoy the new one. Your friend, Senator Harry Reid

          by EeDan on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 07:24:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  And he's right (4.00)

           to do it. They betrayed him. He owes them absolutely no loyalty at all. It was not the Democrats that brought Lott down. That was entirely the GOP.
      •  Too easy (4.00)
        I don't trust those mofo's for a second.  Maybe they want to show how good they are at investigating themselves?  
      •  Does that make Lott (4.00)
        a vampire or a cannibal?

        Look up, not down, Look out, not in, Look forward, not back, And lend a hand. -Edward Everett Hale

        by deadinthewater on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:33:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  we can only hope (4.00)
        that a sensible, sane Republican Party, freedom loving and not beholden to the Radical Right, rises from the train wreck about to occur.  As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

        "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.... uh.... you won't get fooled again." - George W. Bush

        by jimsaco on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:37:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Likely McCain Will Benefit...But (none)
          the more I know about this snake the less I trust or like him. He has two things going for him in my book: he is a true hero, but doesn't buy the crony-capitalist DOD crap, and he speaks his mind (from time to time). But, starting with his disgusting show at the 2004 convention, his hug of shrub, and all out support of the rethugs, his stature began to dwindle. He has managed to become about 18 inches high, a through and through radical rethug hack. If he can navigate A-Moral Straights and make all the deals necessary, we will see him as the R candidate in 2008. Let's hope the christo fascists carve him up on the way.

          Bush/Rove: Co-Conspirators in an On-Going Criminal Enterprise

          by vetfordean on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:23:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Revenge against Cheney (4.00)
        CNN reports that Cheney talked to Senate Republicans about everything leaked the day before the Washington Post story ran.  Assuming not all of those senators had clearance, Cheney again disclosed national secrets.  

        The senator or staffer who went to the press may not have even known it was secret.

        •  Leaked? (none)
          What I don't understand is.. wasn't this story about CIA secret detention centers out there already in a number of foreign & domestic news sources, and simply happened to be vaulted into the spotlight and given some sort of SLCM legitimacy by the Washington Post?

          Anyone who has been following the reports about certain aircraft used by the CIA to spirit away suspects in foreign countries wouldn't be surprised about this at all.  I bet bloggers like Soj and the Yorkshire Ranter (no time to find links now, sorry) will have quite a bit of back story here..

          Checks and balances: Vote Democratic 2006

          by daria g on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:32:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Senate = Top Secret? (none)
          I was under the impression that a certain level of secret clearance was conveyed with the rights and responsibilities of being a member of the US Senate, and could only be removed by a vote on the Senate floor.

          I could be wrong though.

          If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today, he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA. - The The

          by MisterC on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:43:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  He clearly has a grudge (4.00)
        But he also is at a point where he doesn't have to worry about criticizing them. He doesn't have anything to lose anymore, so he's basically free to say what he wants.

        I'm pro la raza sayin "fuck la migra" and I love The Coup

        by oakland dem on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:42:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  But this raises a distubing question (4.00)
        That some very sensitive Intel info needs to be kept from a majority of Congress I understand.  

        That's why we have a Senate Select Committee on Intel, which is made up of specially cleared members of both parties.

        But how in the hell can they possibly justify keeping intel secret from only one party?

        Notice they said this info was revealed at a GOP Senator's Only meeting

        Excuse me? WHEN did the CIA start giving Partisan intel briefings?  

        This to me is  FAR  bigger story than even the Secret Gulags.  The Adminstration is crippling tthe abilityof the opposition from conducting any meaningful oversight while staying in technical compliance with the oversight laws.   That's a power grab of unprecedented proportions, even for this admininstration.

        Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

        by Magorn on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:57:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  GOP Senators only meeting (none)
          Yours was the first post to bring up this question.  Are you sure that the briefing the GOP Senators recieved was from the CIA?  I think its quite obvious why the GOP wouldn't want Democratic Senators to hear this info, but the fact that one party has access to more info than the other is disturbing.
          My question is this.  Who else would have had a motive to brief only the GOP and who within the GOP had the motive to leak?
          •  The briefing was by Cheney himself... (3.50)
            ...and there were no staffers in the room at the time.  Just Cheney and all GOP senators.
            •  Which again raises the question (none)
              Why was Cheney authorized to release this information, to Republicans only?  Frankly, a weekly party meeting is NOT an appropriate place to be discussing classifed info to start with.   Even though he's the VP, he's Still got to follow the same rules as any other user of Classified Material, and I doubt they were adhered to in this case.

               I'd almost guarantee that the GOP's Lunch room doesn't meet any of the requirements for a SCIF, and that not everyone in the room was cleared to the appropriate levels or proven to have a need to know.  Therefore Cheney himself was the intial leaker as he improperly disclosed classified intelligence to people not authorized to recieve it.

              Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

              by Magorn on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:33:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Not a knife in the back (none)
        "Hey, bitch, remember me? Remember how you backed me up when the shit hit the fan? Well, know, its my turn!"

        "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" R.Piper

        by McGirk SF on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:10:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's Revenge, Pure and Simple (none)
        Trent Lott is out to destroy everyone and everything he can because he's angry at being shoved out into the cold.
        •  lott isn't out to destroy. these asses are doing (none)
          fine without them. he is just making sure the mud isn't on his suit also.
          •  I disagree. (none)
            I think Trent is still all burned up about being yanked as Majority Leader and stranded in the spotlight for his bigotry.

            He has a long memory and he's bided his time.  His striking out now is a good indicator that he feels there is vulnerability there and he has a good chance of still standing even after this public disloyalty to his party.

            He's a predator.

      •  "Revenge is a dish (none)
        best served cold."  -Ancient Klingon Proverb

        "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." -Mohandas Gandhi

        by Bulldawg on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:21:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Now which kind of dawg are you? (none)
          Many years ago I moved to Georgia from the Northern reaches of New York state.  One of the first things I learned about these folks (whom I am one of now, I guess) is that they have very long memories.  Veeery long.

          I personally don't like Trent, but I guarantee that the memory of that is fresh in his mind.  

          Dear Senator Frist: I understand you may have been having some problems with your old asshole. I hope you enjoy the new one. Your friend, Senator Harry Reid

          by EeDan on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 07:39:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Damn. Did Lott really quote Pogo? (4.00)
      How much you wanna bet this is Round 1 of the 2008 primary ratfuck, and the fuckee's name is McCain?

      "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

      by Septic Tank on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:41:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Septic Tank (3.00)
        Well they're both from the south.

        There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you. -- Sherlock Holmes

        by Carnacki on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:44:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Couldn't happen to nicer guy (4.00)
          ...as much as I hate dirty politics, McCain gets no sympathy from me.  He held his silence when he shoulda spoke up and kissed up to Bush outrageously.  

          Rubus Eradicandus Est.

          by Randomfactor on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:53:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If he wouldn't stick up for his own wife and child (4.00)
            why would any American think he would fight for them?

            Does the devil wear a suit and tie, Or does he work at the Dairy Queen- Martin Sexton

            by strengthof10kmen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:00:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Campaign Ad (4.00)
              If John McCain decides to run in '08.

              Narrator:

              John McCain served his country honorably in Vietnam, spending years in the notorious Hanoi Hilton.

              (image of Vietnam POWs)

              But, in the 2000 South Carolina Republican presidential primary, John McCain let Karl Rove and George W. Bush smear his good name in a viscious attack against his wife and daugher (heavy pause)... without fighting back.

              (Image of newspaper articles with visible headlines screaming out allegations of "dirty politics")

              Now, after eight years of cozying up to the same people who attacked his family, John McCain wants us to believe he's the principled young prisoner of war and not the compromised, ambitious politician.

              (Cut to split screen: image of Bush buddy-buddy with McCain next to an image of McCain as a young Navy pilot)

              So just who is the real John McCain? The young navy pilot (young Navy McCain fades to away and is replaced by an image of McCain embraching Bush/Rove/Cheney) or the compromised politician scrambling to curry favor with the corrupt extremes of his own political party?

              If John McCain wouldn't fight for his family in 2000, why would he fight for yours in 2008?

              Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

              by Benito on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:20:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  total agreement (4.00)
            even if he does get the nomination, guess what?  he's a flip flopper..the religious right vant trust him, the moderates cant trust hi

            its a shame too, the only republicam I have ever liked

          •  The Leaker Is Heroic (4.00)
            I don't know who it was, but if it was McCain or anybody else, we should sing his praises for one day before bashing him. Because of this leak, the US will have more difficulty torturing prisoners. Eventually, some of our torture camps might be closed down.

            Fox News: We Report, You Die

            by Reino on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:18:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bingo (4.00)
              This is the perfect illustration of a whistleblower's actions.  Even though it involved the release of classified information, the leak was done in the spirit of protecting the Republic against our worst excesses.
            •  It's Shelby (none)
              EVERYONE knows the guy can't keep a secret.
            •  What if Lott is the Leaker??? (4.00)
              n/t
            •  This SHOULD have been made public (4.00)
              I don't see this in context of a Republican "revolt" or infighting....

              Shouldn't someone with a conscience be putting this information out there for people to scream about?  Perhaps, just perhaps, someone did this because it was the right thing to do...  of course there may be alterior motives, but.... aren't there always "selfish" motives in DC?

              But seriously, what "positive" effect could releasing this have on a REPUBLICAN Senator?  It's not like they can tout doing "the right thing"......

              These secret prisons were WRONG and whatever the motive for revealing this information, it was the RIGHT thing to do....

              HIDING torture and prisoner abuse - HIDING what is WRONG - is NOT good.  

              •  THANK YOU! (none)
                I kept reading down and down and down trying to find someone who would say this.  It's about stopping something that is WRONG as quickly as you can when you find out about it. SOMEbody in the GOP deserves a GIANT "HUZZAH!"
                •  I agree. (none)

                  Much as I dislike the Repubs. I don't find it hard to believe that the Maine sisters would have just about lost it in a meeting of this nature. There are others as well. The party still has half a dozen misguided but mostly decent people. Rove should have stamped them out and written off their seats. Now they are going to cause him tremendous trouble, and well that they should.
              •  Yes, Sadam was a monster - but (4.00)
                "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster . . . for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." Nietzsche

                What we do is what we become.  (One lousy chicken, etc.)  But are they even the least bit ashamed?  No.

                Bad enough that we put prisoners of war (even a "war on terror") in someone else's hands to be tortured.  Now we are not even ashamed enough to distance ourselves.  Our own hands drip with their blood.  Not just rogue individuals.  

                I understand that in many ways we still live in a world where brutal and violent people exist and that sometimes you need more than a happy face and a cherry smoothie to stop those people.

                Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty.  Every administration has done it.  Every single one.  And every single one has understood that they are doing something bad, something that in their minds was, on balance, required under the circumstances.  Something that they knew the people would reject.  So they hid it, kept it to the minimum and did not institutionalize it with legal memos and legislative exceptions.  

                The difference with these guys is that on this issue (as well as a host of others) they are so morally bankrupt that they don't understand or admit that what they are doing is in any way morally wrong.  They are not sorry they have to do it.  They are not ashamed of their actions.  They are proud of them.  

                That attitude is what concerns me the most, because it shows that whatever we consider to be the well understood boundaries or limits on legitimate actions or strategies, we cannot assume that they share these assumptions.  We cannot assume we know what they will do.  We cannot assume we know what they will not do.

                Be watchful my fellow citizens.  Be very watchful in these twilight times.  

                "Invest in the Levees or Pay the Storm its Due." Join the New Covenant With America

                by Into The Woods on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:37:40 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Any chance it's Lott himself? n/t (none)
        •  McCain or Hagel (4.00)
          I can't imagine anyone in the GOP Senate ranks who might have leaked if the leak in fact proves true.

          The Book of Revelation is NOT a foreign policy manual.

          by Dont Just Stand There on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:54:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Warner, Chaffee (4.00)
            Warner was just as much behind the anti-torture leg. as McCain.  Chaffee has a tough re-election battle coming up and has to establish some liberal creds or he's so completely toast.

            Can't imagine any of the others.  Maybe Grassley.  When was his staffer attacked, again, in relation to when this leak happened?

          •  Lindsey Graham (4.00)
            former JAG guy

            Gotta be one of the repubs in the "gang of 14" doesn't it?

            •  I'd wager you're right (none)
              Lindsey Graham has a lot to gain by seeing that the apple cart is tipped.

              Who's got access to that luncheon's "guest/attendance list"?

              Some times require that you accept circumstances as they are ... claiming blamelessness just doesn't cut it

              by wystler on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:21:53 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Oddly (none)
               I thought of Lyndsey Graham as a possibility too...and Warner. Graham because I watched the senate hearing about Abu Grahib closely and several times; it was clear to me that Graham was personally and politically repulsed. He did a far better job than , say, Joseph Lieberman or Liddy Dole in the basic decency department.
              That said, Lott could be just be making shit up although we should all be grateful to him for confirming that senate republicans sit around in discussing classified information in meeting which exclude Democratic Senators. Thus, the whole mess falls directly on their backs where it properly belongs.

              "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

              by colleen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:22:33 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Graham and McCain (none)
                are a likely pair for '08.  I don't think G is a snake, in fact for a Republican he's pretty decent. I can see him leaking the torture stuff because that benefits him and McCain.

                "Daddy, what did you do in Bush Two?"

                by omfreebogart on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:42:00 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Let's walk this cat back (4.00)
            So Lott makes Frist look like an ass by letting this little stinker in an elevator full of reporters. But who else might he be after? We've got a pretty good idea, down to six or so senators, of who the likely culprits are. But which of them hurt Trent?

            Was it McCain in the Green Room with the lead pipe?
            Was it Chafee in the bathroom with the spatula?
            Was it Hagel in the study with the rubber chicken?
            Or is it just about fucking with Dr. Frist, the mewling little cuss that stepped on Lott's hooded head on his way up?

            "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

            by Septic Tank on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:00:17 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Sentator Grassley (none)
            One of his aides was beaten severly this week.
        •  the south? (3.00)
          yeah? so
          There are a lot of decent people in the south and painting the south as a septic tank is not useful.  So is Clinton, so is Carter etc blah, blah.  I hate this yankees are the best type stuff.  Just like there is only racism in the south.   yeah right!

          oooh, the south bad.  north good.
          please.

          •  TexMex (4.00)
            I addressed my comment to the Kossack named Septic Tank. I didn't say the south was a septic tank. And my comment referred to Trent Lott and Pogo both being from the south.

            Waiting for your apology.

            There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you. -- Sherlock Holmes

            by Carnacki on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:44:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Carnacki... (4.00)
              the problem in your initial comment was that it required some actual consideration of context and, oh, I don't know, actually reading the thread rather than jumping to some forgone conclusion of South bashing.

              And isn't West Virginia considered part of the south?

              like a stake through the head of your ding dong...the white trash poet

              by the white trash poet on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:56:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  the white trash poet (4.00)
                I probably would have ignored his comment - I don't think I've ever asked for an apology before - but it's the second time in the past 5 minutes my comments have been misinterpretted.

                There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you. -- Sherlock Holmes

                by Carnacki on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:03:04 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  We are all Septic Tanks -- North, South, East (none)
            West and even Midwest, Septic Tank being derogatory Cockney rhyming slang for "Yank."

            "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

            by Septic Tank on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:40:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Septic Tank (none)
              My habit of putting the person's handle in the subject line is getting my comment taken out of context and troll rated. I should just be happy the confusion doesn't involve rimjob. ;>

              There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you. -- Sherlock Holmes

              by Carnacki on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 04:36:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  I refuse to accept (none)
          that Arizona is part of the South.  
      •  Ya mean like this cartoon... (4.00)

        from this site?

        "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" - Jesus

        by SisTwo on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:12:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yep (4.00)
        He quoted Pogo, but thought it was from Shakespeare.

        I think you're 100% right about the 2008 campaign already being underway.  After McCain was fucked over by Bush, I'd bet anything that he's willing to play just as dirty to get the nomination that he thinks was rightfully his.

        The Republican nomination fight is going to look like a bad slasher film.  I think we should all do our part by hoping for lots and lots of casualties.

        •  Funny to watch them (4.00)
          murdalize eachother for something so "valuable" as the 2008 Republican Presidential Nomination. I know its a long way off, and we shouldn't get cocky, but in the back of my head I'm thinking its hee-larious that we get to watch this kind of a deathmatch over something I predict will end the career of the victor.

          Let's go back to E Pluribus Unum

          by hazzcon on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:27:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, Apparently He Did (4.00)
        Can't imagine he'd have found much to like in Walt Kelly's subtly subversive strip.  Maybe it's just a case of two of a certain type of mind thinking alike, you know, Lott and a possum.  I'm sure the former is at least as smart of most of the latter.

        "L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos

        "L'enfer, c'est le GOP!" - JJB, from an idea by oratorio

        by JJB on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:21:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Looks like the quote isn't correct. (none)
        Atrios is stating that on CNN Trent Lott said "we can't keep our mouths shut." and not "We can not remain silent".

        Which means he's pissed off that a Republican blabbed about our torture gulag's and not the fact that they exist.

        Figures, what a dick.

      •  On torture, McCain is untouchable. (none)
        If McCain is the one who leaked the information about the secret prisons, nobody can effectively attack him for doing so.  If they try, they'll just tarnish themselves.
    •  No time like election day for party to fall apart (4.00)
      Looks like the whole damn GOP stepped out their front doors this morning with their shoes on backwards.

      Why is there a Confederate Flag flying in Afghanistan?

      by chimpy on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:43:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are you sure? (4.00)
      Lott's "Money Quote" could be taken two ways:

      1. The enemy is US, the GOP, for leaking this information.

      2. The enemy is US, the U.S., for having secret prisons.

      If it is the former, he is defending Frist's position. If the latter, it is undermining Frist.
      •  Can he really be this stupid? (none)
        I mean, evil I'll buy. Selfish, I'll buy in a heartbeat. But this is just flaming stupidity.
        •  Wait. Read too fast. I was back on the Frist thing (none)
          I thought this diary was one about Frist calling for an investigation into the leaker, and now I see it's about Lott screwing Frist over beautifully!
          Oh, yeah.
          I was wondering if Frist could be this stupid, but now I see it's that both Frist is that stupid and Lott is definitely tired of putting up with Frist and ready to take it to his ass.
          Frist is probably in need of a doctor right now.
          I predict his blood pressure is through the roof. Even higher than when Harry Reid closed the senate last week.
          Go Trent Lott! Screw his ass.
          •  Lott's not afraid any more.... (4.00)
            ...to piss off Bush.

            In fact, Lott may well realize that if he starts to position himself as a "principled Republican", this can only benefit him as Bush's numbers continue their downward spiral.

            For all his faults (and he has many), Lott actually believes in the Senate as an independent branch of government.  That's why Rove had him removed as Majority Leader and replaced with the supremely idiotic waterboy Frist.

            •  "That's why Rove had him removed" (4.00)
              Well that....and the fact that he is an obvious and embarrassing racist.

              Does the devil wear a suit and tie, Or does he work at the Dairy Queen- Martin Sexton

              by strengthof10kmen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:03:42 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh please... (3.66)
                the majority of the GOP caucus fits that bill.

                cheers,

                Mitch Gore

                Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:08:27 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well , most are not as quote-ably(is that a word?) (none)
                  obvious about it. His and by extension the rest of the racist Republican party's racism became news.  Lott became an embarrassment to the Republicans because people were talking about his racism, not because he was a racist.  

                  Republican racism became spotlighted.  It's harder to fuck-over the brown people when there is a spotlight on you reporting on how you're fucking-over brown people.  

                  Does the devil wear a suit and tie, Or does he work at the Dairy Queen- Martin Sexton

                  by strengthof10kmen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:21:40 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  the majority of the GOP caucus (none)
                  Do you really consider them racists, or do you more consider them elitists?  

                  I ask because it's easy to throw around the race card, particularly in light of Lott's inane statement about Thurmond.  Some of these guys are so rich and are so self-isolated from the poor and lower classes, mixing only with their good ol' boy groupies that I would certainly consider racism plays a part, but other GOP politicians are not so obvious with their contempt for the civil rights struggles of minorities.

                  I wonder if it's as much racism as it is grandiose ignorance, or a total lack of appreciation for what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes (that aren't Gucci loafers).

                  If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

                  by deep6 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:48:25 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  They are bigots (none)
                    and misogynists. They know enough to not be overt, and most do not consider themselves racists because they don't "hate black people" etc. But they embrace racist, classist, sexist policy with both arms.

                    Watch what they do on "immigration issues" in the 06 cycle.

                    cheers,

                    Mitch Gore

                    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                    by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:04:41 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  The racism didn't bug Rove at all... (4.00)
                ...but it made a nice pretext.
              •  Errrrrrrrrrrr...... (none)
                You must not be a Republican, cause you say that like it's a bad thing to be an obvious racist.
              •  hmmmmmmmmmm, and the rest of the thugs (none)
                are not racist. it is the degree and which devil one can work with down the road. frist is a major asshole. lott is just a good ole boy. that sums it up. i remind you that lott worked with clinton on a number of issues more successfully that the current group of assholes.
            •  and LOTT seems to be hellbent for revenge... (none)
              and aiming his slings and arrows at the man who took his job as majority leader....bill frist.

              "if all the world's a stage, who is sitting in the audience?"

              by KnotIookin on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:10:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Repercussions (4.00)
              Does this mean FEMA isn't going to build Trent a new house on the Gulf, with an even nicer front porch?
        •  Quote of the Day (4.00)
          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."

          (I could tell you where I read that, but then I'd have to kill you.  But it's too beautiful not to share.)

          Rubus Eradicandus Est.

          by Randomfactor on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:15:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Tha's what I asked down-thread too (4.00)
        Just creeped myself out to think that Lott might have actually said something that is profound, true, and insightful (i.e. #2).

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

        by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:50:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The enemy is "us" (none)
        He could mean the enemy is "us" because the Republicans have been hurting the Republicans in the past few months.  Every word, letter, policy that has come from the RNC leadership has been met with disgust and disdain by the American public.
      •  May be the former (none)
        The other diary, by Chamonix, has this quote:

        Lott added "We can't keep our mouths shut- We've met the Enemy and THE ENEMY IS US.

        That makes it seem like he's pissed that his side of the aisle leaked the information.  He's still quite comfortable with the fact that the US tortures people at will.

        For a second there, I read his quote as intending the latter, and thought we had a glimpse of some character from the GOP.  Foolish me.  I still hope I'm wrong, and he intended the latter, but if that quote is true, he's still just as big a scumbag as ever.

        •  Lott is not turning a leaf (none)
          The whole Republican talking point on these black sites is that they need to remain secret, not that  Cheney/Bush are wrong in establishing them.

          It's only illegal if you're caught.

          Give the appearance that you're working: even Bush rolled up his sleeves!

        •  i wouldn't go that far... (none)
          He's still quite comfortable with the fact that the US tortures people at will.

          Actually, was among the 90 Senators that voted for McCain's anti-torture amendment. My other Mississippi Senator (Cochran), however, was one of the shameful 9 who voted against the provision. but, Lott's vote does at least show that your assertion goes too far.

    •  Wow... (none)
      Lott says " We have met the enemy and it is us."
      Wow, finally something the Republicans say that I can get behind.

      This day keeps getting more interesting. I just returned from my polling place delighted that some Democrats are running against some Republicans for local office where before these Republicans were running unopposed. The County was Red and Democrats did not bother trying.
      Well, thing have been going well here for Democrats and this Red county is going Pink as time goes on. Kerry got more votes than Gore or Clinton in this region, especially my borough.
      And other Democrats have been making inroads as well.   I live in a Blue state but this county and region have been traditionally Red. But we finding some of these Eisenhower Republicans or generations of Republicans are not particularly happy with Where the Republican party is headed.
      They are Moderate Repubs dissed by their Own Party.
      I am so pleased that Democrats are getting very active here and not giving up. And things are looking up.

      Then to come home and read this, it makes for one darn interesting day.

      America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

      by wishingwell on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:19:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I STILL WOULD LIKE TO SEE (none)
      Exactly what Trent Lott said.

      I am not seeing it reported that Lott said he thinks a Republican senator leaked the info on the secret prison.

      WHAT DID TRENT LOTT SAY?
      EXACTLY?
      TRANSCRIPT?

      If you don't want it printed, don't let it happen.

      by EZ writer on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:37:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I still think the bigger story at this point is (none)
        The Washington Post reporter who wrote that story is likely to be hauled before a grand jury.
        And forced to reveal his source.
        No more secrets.

        It is appalling the GOP wants to investigate the LEAK and not the OUTRAGEOUS STORY: The U.S. running secret gulags

        If you don't want it printed, don't let it happen.

        by EZ writer on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:39:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Their existence has been confirmed now (none)
          Before it was an "unconfirmed" leak.  Several

          • No longer just alleged
          • Partison briefing on "secret" material
          • Material not secret for security, but rather for PR purposes
          • Cheney opposing, and Bush threatening to veto anti-torture bill

          Interesting sound bites these days.  Nothing from Cheney, of course.  But every time someone sticks a mike in Dubya's face, he seems to be saying, "I'm opposed to torture.

          It is in this nation's interest not to participate in torture.  I deeply object to it being done in my name.  Besides, we've been learning about our Government acting (as in excuse for war in Iraq, and who knows how many "elevated terrorism alerts") on the basis of intelligence (=disinformation) from Al Qaeda detainees.  Presumably intelligence obtained through questionable means (likely, torture).  It's not a pretty picture.

          The Axis of Evil (White House, Delay, Frist) have pulled a lot of dirty tricks to force their agenda through the Congress.  They've stepped on a lot of toes, twisted a lot of arms, stabbed a lot of backs, etc.  There's a serious fight going on for who gets power in the party next.  Not only is Bush a lame duck, and Cheney not likely to run - top leadership of both the House and the Senate are in trouble.  As are key power operatives (e.g Libby & Rove).  Not surprising that skirmishes for power are bustin' out all over.

          In the midst of all this, the pressure this is gonna put on the torture amendment is OK by me.  I'd like to see it pass both Houses, and have Bush veto it like he's threatened to.  Imagine, his first-ever veto on behalf of torture!  Can't be good for the approval ratings.

    •  CNN just reported (none)
      CIA has officially taken the matter to the Justice Department for investigation.  (Just like they did for L'affair Plame)

      I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

      by jillian on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:37:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Interesting (none)
        However having secret torture prisons is a against the law, not having WMD covert operatives.

        Me thinks this is BushCo. trying to push up a false equivalency trial balloon for when the Ftizmas shoe falls all the way to the floor.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

        by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:50:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe he's confessing to it! (4.00)

    Capitalism is not a form of government.

    by cotterperson on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:31:50 PM PST

  •  Animal House: (4.00)
    "It's time for someone to put their foot down.  And that foot... is me."

    Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

    by Dale on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:31:53 PM PST

  •  I love the smell of Schadenfreude (4.00)
    in the afternoon.

    "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

    by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:32:44 PM PST

    •  it smells like... victory? (none)

      Loving our neighbors is not an interesting hobby to fill our spare time while we wait for a "second coming" in which most of them will be destroyed.

      by sayitaintso on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:32:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You Smell that? (none)
        You smell that? Do you smell that?
        Flopsweat, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that.
        I love the smell of Flopsweat in the morning.

        You know, one time we had the GOP message bombed, for twelve News Cycles. When it was all over I walked up.

        We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' Gop'er body. The smell, you know that Fear and loathing  smell, the whole Hill. Smelled like... victory.(in '06)

        Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

        by Magorn on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:42:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Ahhh...so the problem is (4.00)
    someone exposed the existance of these torture prisons.  Not the prisons, themselves.

    explain how sending young people into battle without armoured vehicles is supporting the troops?

    by bluestatesam on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:33:14 PM PST

    •  And the problem at Abu Ghraib (4.00)
      was the cameras.
      •  Right on..... (4.00)
        .....they prosecuted the man with the camera first, and then his dimwitted girlfriend. Document it, and you're done for.

        "What luck for rulers that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler

        by Bensdad on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:39:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's a good ad right there... (4.00)

        '06 Political ad:

        When it came to facing America's disgrace in wake of the Abu Gharib scandal, Republicans thought the problem was the cameras recoding the horror.

        Democrats think the problem is the horror itself.

        No more torturing people in America's name.

        /end

        You can lead a conservative to logic, but you can't make them think!

        by mrCurmudgeon on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:06:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I like it (4.00)
          I seriously hope somebody at the DNC is building the ad arsenal with stuff like this for '06. If they aren't it's gross stupidity.

          Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

          by Benito on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:28:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It Overwhelming (none)
            You could actually have a 24-hour GOP Corruption Channel with these bastards. Where does it end???

            KY Gov
            Entire Ohio Republican Party
            The White House
            The Vice President's Office
            CA US Representative
            FEMA Morons
            CA Governor
            Abramoff's Web Of Dirty Money
            The Christian Right

            I mean there are probably hundreds of others I'm just not remembering. Its almost easier trying to keep track of Republicans that aren't Corrupt Self-Serving Lying Pricks

            I'll make a list:

            1. (crickets)

             

            •  How about (none)
              Bill Frist (SEC investigation)
              Tom DeLay (no excuse for missing that one)
              Grover Norquist/Ralph Reed (for their own tie-ins w/Abramoff & Indian Casino $)
              Pat Robertson (religious donations used for slave-labor African diamond mining)

              for just a few more examples.

              Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

              by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:54:53 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Pat Robertson (none)
                threatening world leaders
                Ann Coulter could have her own idiot/corruption channel
                Alabama Governor boycott of Aruba

                He may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: he really is an idiot. Send him back to his father and brothers...

                by distributorcap on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:09:03 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I mentioned (none)
                  the diamond trade scandal for Robertson because I thought it was a better example of "corruption" per se than the assassination threat, which was not really corrupt, just idiotic.

                  Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

                  by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:18:06 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Sorry but to pick a nit... (none)
                    ...its not just idiotic, its criminal...its a terrorist threat against the freely elected leader of a country we are not at war with.  

                    Thats one of the things that amazes me...Americans, even some of us here at DKos (sorry to single out this comment but I am speaking in general) seem to be intellectually disconnected from the duality of this statement Robertson made.  Imagine, for a second, that an Islamic fundamentalist, religious leader in another country said the EXACT same words about our President as Robertson did about Chavez?  What do you think would have happened to him?  He'd be lucky if we didn't drop a nuke on his satellite tv headquarters (playing out the analogy) but what happened to Robertson?  He was forced by public opinion to apologize for the words he said but not the content.  Thats like seeing your kid come home with a 500 dollar stereo he stole off the neighbor and slapping his hand once and leaving it at that.

                    I am so sick and tired of the hypocrisy of Americans (yes I am one myself) who think its ok to act this way.  Visit almost any other country and you will be amazed by the dichotomy of reactions you get from foreigners.  On the one hand they are so nice to us and polite to our face but in reality, as AMericans grow more and more arrogant, and shit on the world in toto more and more, there is a deep seated resentment and distrust that will never go away.  Here's an example for you:  does anyone really trust the Germans not to try to take over the world ever again?  Of course not...that country will be stained with its actions of the last century for a very long time to come and this country will likewise be stained by the brutal disregard for anyone else in this world...

                    Fuck I would give almost ANYTHING to be proud of my country again...I hate that I will have to explain all this shit to my kids someday...

                    Pride

                    -5.0, -4.87 -- I have the same rating as the Dalai Lama??? Yeah surprises me too... "Wake up every day and live like you mean it"

                    by I Want My American Pride Back on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 04:21:29 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  It's a Great Ad (4.00)
          You're wrong about the timing for that ad. It's far too negative an image to be caught flinging about close to an election, but an outstanding one to be placing on the air NOW.

          I wish I knew how to raise the funds to get it on the air a.s.a.p., and how to get the networks to agree to not refuse to run it.

          Some times require that you accept circumstances as they are ... claiming blamelessness just doesn't cut it

          by wystler on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:29:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  You know, my mother actually said this to me (4.00)
        in all seriousness.  OK, they torture people, but how stupid can you be to let it all be photographed?  My mother still thinks Nixon was a good president.  Fortunately, she can't vote in this country (sorry, Australia!).
    •  Trees (none)
      Sort of a trees in the forest logic.

      If no one talks about illegal torture prisons, do they exist?

      Truely tortured ethics!

    •  The moral high ground (none)
      that these dastards claim is a curious one.  Lying about sex = impeachable offense.  Torture, murder, rape, endangerment, starting a war based on lies... that's in service of Our Lord.

      I swear, the only moral high ground these jerks hold is in seeing how many Commandments they can break in one term of office.

      Chaos, fear, dread. My work here is done.

      by madhaus on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:57:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This has been the Military's rule in Iraq (none)
      For quite some time now:

      No camera, No foul

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:47:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Which Senator? (4.00)
    Trent Lott is the "enemy", not whatever Republican Senator had the courage and patriotism to leak the story to the WP.  

    Message to Democrats:  The message is not that the Republican Party is imploding.  The message is that even Republicans can put their country before their party.  If a Republican Senator did this, we should give credit where credit is due and not gloat too much about Republicans fighting each other.  

    Would that more Republicans put decency and patriotism above party.

    •  So who are the suspects? (4.00)
      I just can't see McCain keeping silent for long about being the source of the leak.  I can't see McCain keeping silent for long about dang near anything, for that matter.  Most dangerous place in DC is between him and a TV camera.

      Can we speculate about who might have been in the thugs-only meeting who might have talked?

      •  McCain? Grassly? (none)
        Grassly's already upset at who sent the thugs to beat up his aide.

        I don't think those were Democrats either.

        Chaos, fear, dread. My work here is done.

        by madhaus on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:43:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  How long is it going to take (none)
          ...for these few decent GOP senators to bail and become Democrats?  

          "The survival value of intelligence is that it allows us to extinct a bad idea, before the idea extincts us." -- Karl Popper

          by eyeswideopen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:47:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Doubt it... (none)
            I don't see any real chance of defections.

            cheers,

            Mitch Gore

            Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

            by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:51:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  They might (none)
              if the RNC withholds campaign funds, or puts candidates against them in a primary, or hires thugs to go after their families/staff.

              Then all bets are off.

              •  Doubt it... (none)
                They would be handing of their majority with both hands.

                cheers,

                Mitch Gore

                Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:09:34 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  But if they're getting physical threats (none)
                  personal threats, the light might go on, and the hell with the party.

                  Then it gets PERSONAL. Changing parties and causing them to lose power would be an act of revenge, nothing more.

                  And we know how these guys are about revenge...

                  •  No, that's not it (4.00)
                    The senator who leaked, if, in fact, this was the source, would be highly unlikely to cross the aisle. He instead is playing a high-risk/-reward game, expecting the house of cards to come tumbling down, and survive to pick up the pieces when the shitstorm ends. The leading possibility on my own list is Lindsey Graham, but there are others who could be on the list. I don't think it's John McCain, since he's already well-positioned as the leading anti-Bush extreme conservative.

                    Some times require that you accept circumstances as they are ... claiming blamelessness just doesn't cut it

                    by wystler on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:36:15 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I agree (none)
                      It's gotta be someone who is a conservative, but unhappy enough with the direction of the party's leadership that he/she is willing to back-stab party leadership on torture. Graham fits the bill, and so does Hagel.
              •  Basically that happened to McCain (none)
                by the Bush campaign which was heavily funded by Rich Republicans and Corporations and Bush was the favorite of the RNC. It did not deter MCCain from supporting Republicans and he sure as hell supported Bush.

                America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

                by wishingwell on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:33:47 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Won't happen. (none)
            The only GOP Senators that are even close enough politically to the Dems are Chafee (who promised his dad he would never switch parties) & the Maine girls (Snowe & Collins)--I've never heaqrd any indication that either of them might switch.

            As for McCain, he's pretty far right in his policy positions.  The fact that he goes on camera and bashes Republicans just makes him their version of Joementum.  As much as Lieberman is bashed around here, his policy positions are actually fairly progressive (except for his hawkishness with regard to Israel & the ME).

            Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

            by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not Chafee! (none)
                Chafee may be a spineless weasel, but there's no way he leaked this information.  Chafee always falls into line, I never expect this guy to do anything remotely controversial or risky.  He's just too much of an impotent wuss.
              •  Topic was (none)
                not whether Chafee leaked, but whether any Republicans would switch parties.

                Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

                by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:43:48 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sorry. (none)
                    I doubt anyone will be switching parties.  Chafee had his chance last year when the threatened to do so.  Now it's too late.  If he were to switch, his career would be over.  Democrats would not embrace him, as they would have, if he had switched earlier.  If anyone's going to switch parties I guess it would be Chafee.  But I've still got my eye on Olympia Snowe for a switch or a retirement.  
            •  The Maine Girls? (none)
              Did you really have to refer to them as "the Maine girls"?

              "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

              by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:06:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Why is that bad? (none)
                Is referring to Lott and Cochran as "the Good Ole' Boys" from Mississippi a bad thing?

                cheers,

                Mitch Gore

                Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:16:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I meant no disrespect. (none)
                For Republicans, Snowe & Collins are alright in my book.

                How about "The Maine Dames"?  Better?

                Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

                by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:22:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Trust me (none)
                  In my experience, when men want to devalue a group of women in the workplace who are supposed to be their peers, they call them "the girls."  

                  "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

                  by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:00:02 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That was not my intent. (none)
                    I don't mean to offend any of the girls, chicks, broads or skirts (or even women) who read this blog.  :^)

                    Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

                    by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:04:10 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Sorry but I think your perspective on that (none)
                    ...is problematic at best.

                    I understand what you are saying, but I posit that it is looking for misogyny when it isn't there. Sometimes it is, and should be called out. But to automatically take it and extrapolating that somehow referring to a group of women as "the girls" is someone using misogynistic language is bunk to be perfectly frank. It is no more misogynistic without a specific context as such, as it would be when referring to "the boys at the Pentagon" etc. as being sexist towards men.

                    Yes I am well aware that women are not treated as fully empowered members yet in our society, but it is this sort of looking for offense withint langauge where there should be none which, I posit, works against fighting real and systemic sexism and gender problems within our society.

                    Not trying to get down on you, but hopefully giving pause to the language policing.

                    cheers,

                    Mitch Gore

                    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                    by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:14:45 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I am not the language police (none)
                      and I didn't rate down the comment. But as someone who's been one of "the girls" from time to time throughout my career in a male dominated field, references to "the girls" are generally not meant in the same way as the same as references to "the boys."  Would you refer to two male senators from the same state as "the Massachusetts boys"?

                      I totally accept that the poster didn't mean to give offense.  I was just making a point.  You can accept it or not.

                      "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

                      by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 04:36:45 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

          •  the only chance in hell of that happening (none)
            is if the Democrats were one senator away from a majority (is that 50? 49?  Who's the majority party in the senate if it's split 50-50?), so Chafee or whoever could defect and shift the balance like Jeffords did.  Otherwise there is no reason for someone to give up membership in the majority party for membership in the minority.  I'm sure they would reason that they can do more good as a moderating influence on the majority from the inside (regardless of whether or not that is actually true).
            •  asdf (none)
              ties are broken by the vice president ...

              committees are split down the middle, complete with co-chairs ...

              Some times require that you accept circumstances as they are ... claiming blamelessness just doesn't cut it

              by wystler on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:37:30 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Jeffords is the model (none)
              Jeffords bailed on the majority to become an independent, but caucusing with the Dems -- I think we need about 3 or 4 of these Jeffords heroes.

              "The survival value of intelligence is that it allows us to extinct a bad idea, before the idea extincts us." -- Karl Popper

              by eyeswideopen on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 12:29:05 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  You mean the McCain (none)
        that kissed Bush after they screwed him and his wife?
      •  McCain is on Daily Show TONIGHT (none)
        In the light of the latest kerfuffle it'll be fun to watch for nuance.  And to see what brilliant, devious means Stewart will use to get at it.

        Should be interesting!!

    •  Here, here... (4.00)
      I'll take a mixed senate of 100 and a mixed congress of 435 honest public servants any day of the week over 100/435 purebred hacks.

      That said - it's still damn funny.

    •  Watch Trent Lott..... (none)
      kneecap Bill Frist.  Just a little payback time for losing his post to the good doctor.

      Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.

      by dweb8231 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:40:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The GOP-only meeting with Cheney... (4.00)
      I'll bet it was at the GOP-only meeting that Cheney had earlier this week, mentioned in this diary earlier.  He was asking Senators to drop the torture restrictions in the Senate, which McCain rightfully took umbrage to.  It's not unforeseeable, I think, that these secret prisons would come up in the same meeting...  
    •  I wonder if it was leaked (none)
      as a bad the American people should know and America should stop or if they were just bragging about how bad-ass we are?

      Does the devil wear a suit and tie, Or does he work at the Dairy Queen- Martin Sexton

      by strengthof10kmen on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:08:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  my gloat comes from.... (none)
      the fact that trent lott COULD have told frist the leak came from a republican senator BEFORE Frist made a total fool of himself and launched an investigation thinking he was going to trap a democrat....but he didnt...he waited until after frist made that pronouncement so trent could make a fool of frist himself.

      "if all the world's a stage, who is sitting in the audience?"

      by KnotIookin on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:14:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  strategy (none)
        I have a different take.  I think Lott was simultaneously heading off an investigation that would only embarrass the GOP--as so many here have already pointed out.  He's clearly knocking Frist.  But secondly, by accusing a fellow Repub senator he forces the GOP to close ranks and become fearful of themselves; to tighten up and be unified basically.  

        It's the same tactic the Repubs use on the general public to get them to report on each other and be suspicious of one another, pass Patriot Act legislation.  Lott probably has no idea who the leak is or where it came from.  How about any one of 100's of pissed off CIA agents?  

        Lott is just giving Frist a slap.  A secondary implication is that he is mildly criticising the practice of secret prisons too (He's voting for the McCain amendment, remember.)

        •  Lott's statement also confirms (none)
          that the story about the secret prisons is true.
        •  Were there nine who voted against it? (none)
          Which nine?  Do you have a list handy that you could post?
        •  but lott didnt... (none)
          head off an investigation..in fact there are now TWO investigations into this....one by justice and a bicameral one in congress...

          it was mentioned that frist and hasert wouldnt have called for a congressional investigation unless they KNEW before hand who was guilty of leaking....which makes Lott's comment all the more confusing.

          did frist NOT know who might be to blame? was he going on a hope that the gop wasnt THAT stupid as to leak more classified intell so soon after libby was indicted?  or ws LOTT playing a roll in the rights strategy to lull democrats into believing one of their own didnt do the dirty leak deed???

          and WHY would a republican even risk leaking this intell, and doing it right before the off year elections?  so i think this wasnt leaked by a senator at all....i think someone else leaked this to the press...possibly a deep throat within our intell agencies....

          but it doesnt take away from the fact that it looks like a public war is being waged between lott and frist now...a fight over who will lead the senate republicans..and lott is out to embarrass frist and make him look clueless at every opportunity he can find...

          "if all the world's a stage, who is sitting in the audience?"

          by KnotIookin on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 06:49:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hahahahaha (4.00)
    "We can not remain silent. We have met the enemy, and it is us."

    It only took being in the party for 33 years for you to find that out?

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:33:38 PM PST

  •  Caution! (none)
    Remember the old lawyer's caveat "revenge is a dish best served cold!"
    •  I thought that was a Klingon proverb (none)
      Star Trek II was on a couple nights ago and I thought of Khan when you posted that!

      "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

      by Dr Van Nostrand on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:37:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Per the opening credits of Kill Bill (none)
        you are correct.

        "Don't want to be an American idiot..." -- Green Day

        by Black Maned Pensator on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:47:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, but... (4.00)
          ...Tarantino doesn't qualify as a citable reference!

          Actually the line dates back at least to Laclos in Les Liasons Dangereuses from 1782.

          "What does the contents of my underpants have to do with national security?" -- Hank Hill

          by GreenCA on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:00:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  It IS a Klingon proverb. (none)
        As memorialized at the beginning of Kill Bill.
        •  Which always made me wonder how the fuck (none)
          Kahn could have known it.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

          by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:53:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Khan even.. ugh (none)

            cheers,

            Mitch Gore

            Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

            by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:53:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Earthling lawyers (none)
            are infamous throughout the galaxy for their tactics.

            Can anyone tell me why my American flag was made in China?

            by Skid on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:10:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Huh? (4.00)
              What I was pointing out is that Khan was put into cryogenic freeze form the year 1996 then shot out into space on the S.S. Botany Bay. Before humans knew what the fuck a Klingon was. They are found by the Enterprise on the original series, thawed out, Khan tries to take over the ship, Kirk and crew thwart him, and strand him and his followers on Ceti Alpha 5 until the U.S.S. Reliant stumbles upon them thinking they are investigating Ceti Alpha 6 to see if it is lifeless so that it can be used as a test site for the Genesis project.

              So how did Khan know that Klingon proverb?

              Only thing I can see is that somehow his wife (former Enterprise crew member in the original TV episode) told him that proverb second hand before she was killed by the indigenous Ceti Alpha "eel" that buries itself in the ear canal. But that seems a bit of a stretch to me.

              cheers,

              Mitch Gore

              Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

              by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:22:20 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Wow. (none)
                That was one of the nerdiest posts I've ever seen on this site...and it gets a big '4' from me for just that reason!

                Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

                by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:28:49 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  (sheepish grin) (none)
                  Yeah.. kinda got my geek on with that one didn't I?

                  cheers,

                  Mitch Gore

                  Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                  by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:35:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!! (none)
                    You are teh 133t.

                    Honestly, that did always bother me about ST2.  How would KHAN know???  It would have to be his wife (she was the cute redhead one, right? it's been a while since I saw Space Seed).

                    Or, of course, Gene Roddenberry (rest in peace) made a ... gasp ... mistake.

                    Funny thing, on that same episode (Space Seed) when Kirk and McCoy etc are leaning over the cryogenic sleep chamber thingie, you can see Kirk's phaser fall off his belt, then McCoy looks at the phaser then looks around, waiting for the director to say "cut..."

                    Sorry to be equally (?) geeky...

                    •  Yes... (none)
                      Lieutenant Marla McGivers, the ships historian, was the cute redhead/auburn haired Lt. who goes on to become Khan's wife.

                      Never noticed that goof before. Too funny.

                      One goof I always snicker at in one of my favorite TOS episodes (The Doomsday Machine) is where you can see the stars ghosting through the optical overlay of the planet killer in numerous shots. Oh, and the grossly out of scale shuttle-craft that Captain Decker uses to kill himself by flying it into its maw.

                      Nice little fact o' trivia on that episode. The model of the badly damaged U.S.S. Constellation was a store-bought model of the Enterprise which the effects house bought and built. They simply swapped around the order of the numbers with the number decals that came with the kit, making it NCC 1017. According to the "literature" from the Starfleet Tech Manuals, etc. that number is the only one of the original 12 Constitution Class (i.e. Enterprise type) starships with a number not in the 1700-1799 range) as a result of the effects hosue simply being cheap/lazy/time-constrained.

                      Ok.. now I have completely dropped my pants in Trek-geekdom scale.

                      cheers,

                      Mitch Gore

                      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                      by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:26:51 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

              •  I also hear (4.00)
                that the Klingons use the metric system and refer to revenge as a "Royale with cheese".

                Rumsfeld, he needs to be hit on the head. --Baghdad Bob

                by Jimmy Jazz on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:33:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Maybe they can create (none)
                yet another spin-off series on the UPN to explain that for you. "Star Trek: Unsolved Mysteries" or something.

                Can anyone tell me why my American flag was made in China?

                by Skid on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:26:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Speed Reading (4.00)
            I have to admit, I am a Trek geek.  In the first season episode "Space Seed" (the Khan episode), Khan was reading historical databases on the Enterprise, and probably came across the reference while reading.

            The bigger conumdrum has been about the line where Khan says to Chekov "I never forget a face."  William Koenig joined the cast of Star Trek in the second season.

            The answer is obvious.  After 200 years in hibernation, Khan needed to go to the bathroom REAL bad.  The only bathroom he could find was occupied by a really constipated young ensign.  When Chekov FINALLY left the bathroom, Khan looked at him and said, "I will never forget you."

            •  Heard that possible theory but seems a bit slim (none)
              Yeah I knew about that one about Chekov as well, though we can theorize that Chekov might have been on the Enterprise, but not yet an ensign and we simply never saw him interact with Kahn or his followers though it occurred off-screen at some point in the episode.

              Personally I would have made that part (i.e. the second in command of Reliant) go to Sulu not Chekov, since they were going to eventually move Sulu into being Captain of the Excelsior. Then that inaccuracy in STII:TWOK wouldn't have been there.

              cheers,

              Mitch Gore

              Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

              by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:41:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, but (none)
                Walter Koenig screams so well, they wanted to put the "earwig" into him to give the chance to howl like a Russian banshee.  Also, the antipathy between Takei and Shatner is well established, and I have to think that's one reason why Takei never really got any substantial parts in any of the movies.  (He did get one of the great ST movie lines, though: "Fly her apart, then!")
                •  Too true (none)
                  I really wish they would have spun off Sulu and the Excelsior into a new Trek series (more in line with TOS and TNG).

                  I was very proud and happy to see Takei came out last week as well.

                  cheers,

                  Mitch Gore

                  Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                  by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:40:52 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  George is getting on in years (none)
                    and, sadly, isn't a very good actor.  Maybe an episode with his daughter and the "Excelsior"...on the other hand, going for the duration with a ship named the "Excelsior" kinda drags.

                    And yes, I too am pleased with George coming out of the closet.  More power to him.  There are a lot of conservative ST fans (why?) -- wonder what they think of having a gay helmsman piloting the "Enterprise?"

            •  It was "Walter" Koenig. n/t (none)

              Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

              by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:47:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Man (none)
                Didn't even spot that but you are correct.

                Met him once, really threw me with his generic American accent. in my head I was like.. no no no.. you have to have a cartoon version of a thick Russian accent.

                cheers,

                Mitch Gore

                Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:08:16 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Does he wear that hideous toupee (none)
                  in real life?

                  And Khan would have known the quote from Les Liasons Dangereuses. He was a genius, after all.  

                  "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

                  by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:19:05 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Exactly (none)
                    yet he cites it as a Klingon proverb.

                    Didn't notice the rug oin Koenig myself.

                    Of all the original Trek cast I have had the fortune to meet, the most touching was the gentle and quiet DeForest Kelly whom I met at a Vons in Sherman Oaks (when I lived there). He was most gracious and charming, and even back then (this was 96) he seemed so very fragile physically.

                    I hope both he and Doohan, are resting in that final frontier... we miss them.

                    cheers,

                    Mitch Gore

                    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                    by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:29:48 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, please.... (4.00)
        "La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid."

        --Pierre Ambroise Francois Choderios de LaClos (1741-1803), 'Les Liasons Dangereuses'

    •  source (none)
      Revenge is a dish best served cold.

      It's not, as many of the Kossacks have cited, originated in KILL BILL, StarTrek, BatmanComix, or any other recent pop-culture piece.

      The earliest well-known example of this proverb in print is "La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid" from the play Les Liaisons Dangereuses (1782) by Pierre Ambroise Francois Choderios de LaClos. The saying exists in many cultures, including Sicilian, Spanish and Pashtun, making its ultimate origin difficult to determine. The modern English wording is attributed to Dorothy Parker.

      Some times require that you accept circumstances as they are ... claiming blamelessness just doesn't cut it

      by wystler on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:47:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bet they'll cancel that investigation real quick (4.00)
    I saw the report also. Isn't this a classic? How can they back down now from investigating the "other" leak? Isn't this fun?
  •  I thought GW would be the first of them (none)
    to have a nervous breakdown, but hell, it may be Frist instead!

    Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber--Plato

    by techiechick on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:35:38 PM PST

    •  Frist is a little too wound up... (4.00)
      He often seems like he might just cry.  The insider trading investigation - his lip was quivering a little.  Reid calls for a closed session?  Frist's voice was cracking and he looked like he was gonna cry.  

      Now, I've got nothing against men showing their emotions, but Frist is a world-class tight ass who used to deal with his frustrations by killing cats.  If he breaks down, he will throw a real wobbly.  

      •  Seems worthy of a pool... (4.00)
        I'm guessing at least one of them will have a major meltdown before Christmas.  

        Only 46 shopping days left...:)

        Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber--Plato

        by techiechick on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:52:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Now, now (none)
        who used to deal with his frustrations by killing cats

        I thought the reason was, in the finest tradition of 18th and 19th century vivisectionists and cadaver-buyers, to practice his medical skills. Only the highest motives, you see.

      •  Yes (none)
        Frist looks like he is headed for a breakdown.
        He will soon be blubbering all over the Senate floor. I too thought Bush would go nuts first and start ranting and raving..but instead Frist could be headed for a meltdown. And I look for Cheney's head to explode one of these days or his heart as things get worse and things more heated in the Investigation not to mention Scooter's trial, if there is one.

        America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

        by wishingwell on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:40:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Bush WAS the first (none)
      He just had more people tyo hide behind....

      Save your tears for the living

      by immanentize on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:10:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Has Lott had an aneurysm? (4.00)
    Something's happened to his brain the past week, he's speaking some truth, here. Lott's been a veritable loose cannon, lately.
    •  Positioning himself (4.00)
      Lott wants to return to the leadership of the GOP in 2007.

      Lott and Newt are emerging from the woods.

      "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

      by RBH on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:37:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please! (none)
        Let them remain among the shadows in the woods. And with any luck, there's bears in them thar woods - lot of them!

        Hostage smiles on presidents, freedom scribbled in the subway. It's like night and day. - Joni Mitchell

        by jazzlover on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:48:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  But ratting out his comrades (none)
        is no way to get votes.  I think he wants to go out with maximum effect.  He is one angry dude!  

        <snark>  Don't forget, he just lost his house and he has to go down and get it fixed up so George can come sit on his porch.

        When you are going through hell, keep going! - Winston Churchill

        by flo58 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:51:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then again (none)
          if Bush and his buddies get into trouble, Lott emerges without any new stains.

          "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

          by RBH on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:53:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe (none)
            But if the Bushites stay in the Senate, it is unlikely he will get their votes -- it seems Senators, Republicans and elephants have one thing in common -- long memories.  

            I will enjoy the show no matter how it comes out.  Lott is like Wiley Coyote -- sticking dynamite in the Republicans' path.  I only hope he is more succesful in Washington DC than he was against the Roadrunner.  

            When you are going through hell, keep going! - Winston Churchill

            by flo58 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:09:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  And Lott lost his house (none)
      due to Katrina.  At some level, the way the rest of the Pugs are ignoring everyone else's tragedy just could have started working its way in...

      Nah.  Payback makes much more sense.

      Chaos, fear, dread. My work here is done.

      by madhaus on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:45:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  He may be retiring... (none)
      ... and thus feel free to say what he actually thinks.
    •  As a mississippian... (4.00)
      I have been surprised by Lott lately. I've always viewed Cochran as the better man out of our two Repug Senators, but Cochran voted against McCain's torture amendment and Lott voted in favor. Had I been guessing, I would have guessed that the vote would have been reversed.

      I still don't like Lott by any stretch of the imagination, but he has been interesting to watch in the context of Reagan Republicans vs. Bush Republicans.

      •  Reagan republicans (none)
        are pragmatists. They would LIKE to see their neo-con beliefs happen, but if they don't, they'll take what they can get.

        As long as it makes them rich(er), that is.

        Bush republicans are just evil. And incompetent.

    •  Maybe he plans to be minority leader (none)
      when dems take back the senate and reps take out their anger on frist

      Transparency + Accountability = Honesty (that way we won't have to rely on trust.)

      by David in Burbank on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:25:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  McCain (4.00)
    Look for the leaker to be McCain.  Just my guess.  He has been outfront for his party on the outrage of prisoner abuse in Iraq, and I think he has done his best, despite party push back to shed the light of day on this issue.

    If Lott and Frist don't say who the person is, look for it to be McCain.  If I'm right, Lott and Frist look even worse, and McCain will look like a hero to the moderates in his party.

    •  BINGO! (4.00)
      That makes the most sense by a long shot.  They want to take McCain out because he's not drinking the same kool-aid flavor the rest of them are.
      •  Two turds with one stone (none)
        Lott smears egg all over Frist's face, and slams McCain for leaking national security information.

        I'm guessing Senator Lott is having a good evening.

        "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken

        by roxtar on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 04:07:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Agree! (none)
      Like I said above, Cheney held a closed-door meeting with Republican Senators to ask them to drop the torture restrictions.  McCain was having none of it.  I would guess that these secret prisons were discussed in that meeting, and McCain couldn't bring himself to sit on it.
      •  Payback (none)
        Remember how Rove and Cheney and the others swiftboated McCain in SC during the 2000 primary?  McCain doesn't like torture (he's experienced it) he hates Rove and Cheney and he has little respect for Bush.  I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't leak this. It's even good politics.
    •  But if McCain is the leaker (none)
      will the disclosure "take him out," or make him a hero?  

      "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

      by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:45:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  hero to us (none)
        "enemy" to the GOP.
      •  hero (none)
        He just needs to frame himself as a whistleblower.  Fact is, Americans by and large find torture reprehensible, and secret prisons terrifying.  Leaking the fact that our government is engaged in such archaic practices isn't going to ruin him politically.  It will help the image that he tries to build for himself - the no-nonsense straight-shooter of Washington.
        •  Bullshit... (3.00)
          Sorry but most Americans (unfortunately) have zero problem with torture as long as they don't have to be involved in it directly. Most Americans are bigoted, moronic dumb-fucks who would cheer on the idea of torturing a bunch of "towel-heads" if they were convinced that those "evil-doers" were al Qaeda.

          I really wish you were right but I see no evidence to support your assertion.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

          by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:13:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's more like 35% according to the polls. (none)
          •  after all... (none)
            half of all Americans are below median intelligence.
          •  And that zero was for what chillindame? (none)

            cheers,

            Mitch Gore

            Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

            by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:09:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  -frown- (none)
            Well, maybe it's the naive optimist in me, but I really do believe that the majority of Americans dislike the idea of US soldiers torturing anyone.  I don't think that this country is over-run with hate-mongering, pro-torture sociopaths.  Further, I don't feel that we do ourselves any service by characterizing the majority of citizens as such.  Yeah, there are a few nutters out there, but I do believe that they are much fewer and further between than you assert in your comment.

            I feel that the biggest problem with most Americans is a general feeling of apathy.  Either they feel that effort is futile, because they can't really change anything, or they feel that ... eh, whatever, it doesn't really affect them.  Those are the primary obstacles that I have encountered when I am trying to motivate an average citizen (average, as in, does not log onto kos about 45 times per day) to take action in the political arena.  The former argument ("what's the point, I can't change anything"), I can sympathize with; the latter pisses me off.  But whatever, that's a tangent.  Sorry for the ramble.

        •  The Daily Show (none)
          McCain is the guest on tonight's show.  I wonder if Jon Stewart will bring up the subject of the prisons.  Also, I wonder if he is aware of Lott's comments today. I would love to have him ask McCain if he has any thoughts on who is the leaker (and then, lets watch McCain's reply)!
      •  If it was him (none)
        which I doubt, he'll be the John Dean of torturgate.

        That is why I don't think its him. Always remember he kissed Bush. Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

        •  But you CAN (none)
          have a serious case of buyer's remorse.

          Besides, I don't think McCain likes politics anymore. This isn't gentlemen disagreeing, it's war. And he's seen war. It's not fun. It's not enjoyable.

          Not for him. Maybe for Cheney, but he didn't spend years in a prison camp.

          I don't think McCain even wants to run for Pres anymore. I think this bunch has completely pissed him off, and he'll do whatever he can to get them out of office.

          •  Oh, that's what we all said *last* time (none)
            And then McCain turned around and did this:

            "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

            by fishhead on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:24:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This picture scares me (none)
              I can't put my finger on it, but it freaks me out.

              "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." - Cicero

              by KOWALSKI on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:30:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You... Are NOT alone.... ick.... (none)
              •  Doesn't it look like (none)
                McCain is humping George's thigh?

                He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot - Groucho Marx

                by AlyoshaKaramazov on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:15:33 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yup. (none)
                  Some people will do anything to be president (see current occupant if there is any doubt). Hugging the worst example of humanity ever elected to the office probably seemed like a minor thing for McCain to keep the possibility open.

                  "I don't reject conservatism because it is followed by conservatives, I reject poor thinking, which conservatives seem especially expert at."

                  by dicta on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:35:44 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  It's the way McCain's arms are down (none)
                around Bush's waist`and his head is lying on Bush's shoulder.  This is a passive pose, the way a child would hug a parent, or a supplicant someone who just granted a favor.  One party towers over the other.  One party is more powerful than the other.

                Equals would have embraced around the neck.

            •  He looks miserable sucking bush-pit (none)
              but he chose to put himself there.  Stockholm Syndrome all over again.
            •  Nice nipple-sucking (none)
              And the GOP-MSM cabal had the gall to say Kerry and Edwards had too gay of an embrace that time (as if gay is so bad), and then the pundits still insist the MSM is too pro-gay and then the...

              Oh, I could go on with further strings of related hypocrisies but I better get back to work.  

              Check out my lte archive at http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomletters and feel free to use my ideas for your own lte's.

              by DemDachshund on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:01:36 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Next, kiss the ring, then kiss (none)
              my ass.  Then I the king/pope/whatever will plant a kiss on your loyal little head.  The picture of the head kiss is ever creepier.  Looks like something the pope of the darkside would do.

              "Invest in the Levees or Pay the Storm its Due." Join the New Covenant With America

              by Into The Woods on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:49:08 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  My sweet lord.. (none)
              McCain thinks Dubya's Jesus H. Crist!
        •  maybe it (none)
          was a judas kiss?
    •  Don't forget Hagel (none)
      You heard it here first....

      Save your tears for the living

      by immanentize on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:11:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  could be (none)
        Hagel would be on my suspect list as well. He seems more cemented in his beliefs than does McCain, and I've read in other places that Hagel is furious that certain party insiders don't see him as someone who would be a viable contender for the presidency in 2008. So he would have ample motive to want to stab BushCo in the back in order to position himself as an outsider.
        •  In a three-way race, Hagel would have (none)
          an excellent chance of winning the presidency with a third-party run. (So would McCain.)

          It's doubtful that either of them could get the Republican nomination.

    •  and where there is a camera or reporter (none)
      McCain is there.

      America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

      by wishingwell on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:44:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  fuck you, back (none)
    trent is still upset that he got bounced in favor of that knucklehead Frist.

    Reid should work on him.

  •  Can you say revenge? (4.00)
    Lott wants his old seat back.  I don't care what he may say publicly, but he wants Rove and Libby hung from the nearest tree.  Lets see who it turns out to be.  Wouldn't be surprised at all if it was one of the others that helped "de-throne" Lott.
  •  McCain, Hagel, or Graham. (none)

    Visit my blog Penndit. Media, politics, campaigns, and political communications.

    by Newsie8200 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:38:34 PM PST

  •  Time to bust out the Patriot Act (none)
    to monitor those traitorous Republicans.

    -----------------------------------------

    "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." - Pynchon

    by HairOnFire on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:38:39 PM PST

  •  Um, efforts to get revenge on McCain underway? (none)
    •  Correctamente! This is Darth Cheney's payback (none)
      move on McCain. It's a twofer for the Cheney torture cabal - it will erase the Plame scandal from the headlines with a classic distraction move and also let reclcitrant Thugs know that not even a respected US Senator has immunity from the Bush-Cheney-Rove revenge machine.
      •  Am I being paranoid here...or is there a more (4.00)
        hidden motive. This White House has always held that giving highly classified documents/information to Congress will result in ot being leaked, and didn't Libby and Cheny withhold the information they forced on Powell from the Senate?  Now they can say, we gave you secret info and its on the front page.
        •  I think it's a revenge/politics threefer. (4.00)
          • Bush /Cheney need to change the headlines because they're getting killed on the Plame scandal and the Iraq war.

          • They are terrified that if the McCain amendment makes it through, they will all be subject to criminal prosecution and possible prosecution as war criminals. They would have to immediately shut down all of theur secret prisons because they would become instantly illegal. That is why Bush/Cheney are fighting so hard on this.

          • The leak in WP of the existence of the secret prisons has backed them into a corner from which there is no escape - if the McCain amendment passes, they will now HAVE to shut them down, and will probably have to shut them down anyway because the host countries in Europe (Poland, Romania) are now being investigated for violation of EU laws and most likely are telling the CIA to get the hell out. The damage has been done, and now the Bushites are looking to cover their asses, change the subject, and extract some revenge.

          The WP leak really screwed them, and they want some vampire's revenge. From what Lott says about that meeting, it must have been instantly obvious to Cheney that it was someone at that meeting. So why would he want to open an investigation on a group of GOP senators unless he was already sure who it was, putting a large group of GOP senators at risk? Because he knew it was McCain who fucked him, that's why, and it was time for some payback.

          Attacking McCain takes him out of the '08 preznit competition and clears the way for Frist or Romney or Allen or JEB. It also pushes Plamegate out of the news and ends the constant attacks on Cheney. The third part of the 'threefer' is, of course, a not-so-subtle warning to other GOP maverick wannabes that not even a popular and respected US senator has immunity from the Bush-Cheney-Rove revenge machine. This is the same basic approach they took to dealing with Wilson/Plame - destroy those who dare oppose or expose their actions.

          Lott should get Bill Schneider's Play Of The Week award on CNN for this. With a single news conference he's managed to extract a sweet measure of revenge from the people who 'eased' him out of the Majority Leader's spot. If he wasn't such a troglodyte, I'd give him an attaboy.

  •  Any news network running this? (none)
    Would be great to have a link if anyone finds it.

    In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move.

    by Closet VB Coder on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:39:40 PM PST

  •  not mccain (none)
    if mccain was the leaker that would probably doom his chances in 2008.
    •  Fine with me (4.00)
      If he really opposed torture, he would have spoken out in 2004 against Dear Leader instead of campaigning with the torturer-in-chief.

      There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you. -- Sherlock Holmes

      by Carnacki on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:41:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  McCain the margins trader (4.00)
      Two things about McCain:

      (1)  He was actually tortured, so he knows better than the rest of us that the US should not be torturing people.  I think this issue actually matters to him - that it is not just politics.

      (2)  He's betting the neocons collapse.  Not a bad bet.  

      I don't care for McCain's policies, but he is doing the right thing on this - both morally and politically.  I worry that he will get the nomination.

    •  Because? (none)
      Supporting illegal CIA torture chambers is now a litmus test for Republican nominees?  I guess Ted "Bridge to Nowhere" Stevens has it all locked up, then.

      Rumsfeld, he needs to be hit on the head. --Baghdad Bob

      by Jimmy Jazz on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:44:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ah-Ha (none)

    There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you. -- Sherlock Holmes

    by Carnacki on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:40:12 PM PST

  •  Republicans to (4.00)
    investigate other Republicans!

    Congressional Republicans to investigate themselves.  Gotta love it.

    Trent Lott just PWN3D Frist.

  •  Is Trent Lott the new Zell Miller? (none)
    Or maybe just the new Joe Lieberman?

    Nah... but it would be nice.  I've enjoyed seeing him stand up to his party a couple a times in the last few weeks.

    Trent, you're still a rat bastard, but I tip my hat to you.

  •  Simple question (none)
    Do all Senators have high security clearances.

    If not, why was this being discussed?

    If so, my understanding is that classified information is only to be distributed on a need to know basis.  Why was there a need for Republcian only senators to know about this?

    Bush, so incompetent, he can't even do the wrong things right.

    by JAPA21 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:43:56 PM PST

    •  I believe they do... (none)
      That's why they were allowed to see some of the torture pix/video that haven't been released yet.  When they need to discuss classified information, one thing they can do is invoke article 21, which is what Reid did last week (although for different reasons).
      •  Then that begs the second question (none)
        What was the "need to know" situation that applied only to Republican senators?

        Bush, so incompetent, he can't even do the wrong things right.

        by JAPA21 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:39:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's what I'd like to know (none)
          Dems weren't invited to matters of "national security."  Hey! was this the same "national security" the Republicans used to impeach Clinton?

          Cheney died a natural death - on the phone with Halliburton.

          by annefrank on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:42:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Popcorn, Marshmallows, and Buckets of Beer (4.00)
    Watching this will be fun.

    Pray for my Beloved Country

    by lubarsh on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:45:26 PM PST

  •  HAHAHA! (4.00)
    Trying to ... bwahahaha ... say something ... bpptthh ... but can't stop .... hahahahaha ... laughing!

    Funniest. political. moment. EVER.

    PubliusTV: A Collaborative Media Network

    by BriVT on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:45:26 PM PST

  •  I missed this. Details please (none)
    What did Lott think of the leak itself?  Did he express anger at the leaker?  Or does he approve of it?

    Also, did he vote for or against the McCain Amendment?

    •  David Stout: AP via Yahoo (none)
      Excerpt:

      The Frist-Hastert letter, first reported this afternoon by The Associated Press, said the Senate and House intelligence committees should try to find out who leaked the information, and under what authority. Among the questions that must be answered, the letter said, is "What is the actual and potential damage done to the national security of the United States and our partners in the global war on terror?"

      The White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said this afternoon that he had just learned about the letter. Asked if President Bush would approve of a Congressional inquiry, he replied, "I think that you've heard him express his views: the leaking of classified information is a serious matter and ought to be taken seriously."

    •  Here's the deal (4.00)
      Matt Drudge (Atrios has the link) trumpeted an "exclusive" about how the GOP Senate, led by Bill Frist, was going to find out who leaked to the WP and MAKE THEM PAY!!!

      Then, just in time for the evening news shows, Trent Lott shows up and says that a REPUBLICAN Senator is the leaker!

      In other words, don't expect the probe of Frist's to go very far.

      Lott just ratfucked Frist but good.

      •  Consultation eschewed? (none)
        So we can assume that Lott did not consult with Dr. Frist on this diagnosis.

        Actually Frist had the reputation as a very good surgeon in Nashville.  Too bad that he had to try his hand at politics instead of staying with the scalpel, which he might be wanting to use on Lott right now.  Similar to the Micheal Jordan foray into baseball in thinking just beause one excels in one field that similar excellence can be had in another.

  •  Towlette (4.00)
    I just experienced a "sensation."  And I didn't even have to touch myself.  Lord.  Trent Lott knows how to serve up a nice plate of cold revenge, doesn't he?

    "When you starve the beast, you starve the people. And the bathtub was a reference to New Orleans." -- bink

    by bink on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:47:55 PM PST

  •  Which way to read the phrase... (none)
    ..."We have met the enemy, and it is us."

    Is this an inside-baseball use of the phrase, to mean that we have an "enemy" within our (i.e. GOP) midst?

    Or does he mean...

    We are what we call the enemy because of the torture prisons and we have become the enemy?

    The later I can fully respect (but doubt he meant it that way) while the former is just a peak behind the curtain of the noise machine throwing a gear.

    cheers,

    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:48:44 PM PST

    •  it depends (none)
      Does anyone have the full text of his remarks? Context should say a lot....
    •  who cares? (none)
      i'm pretty sure he meant it the first way.  especially considering that for republicans GOP political fortunes are national security.

      but who cares?  we should be using it anyway.  quote it, clip it, soundbite it.

      even trent lott admits that the GOP is the enemy of america!

      works for me.

      we'd better decide now if we are going to be fearless men or scared boys.
      — e.d. nixon, montgomery improvement association

      by zeke L on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 07:55:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where a leak does the world good (none)
    The GOP sees a reason to investigate.

    What will these people do to keep power?

    Political pardons are unacceptable Mr Bush,and so is hiding your daddy's secrets behind exectutive orders,free the truth now.

    by wmc418 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:48:44 PM PST

    •  Thank you ... (none)
      you seem the first to raise the point that this leak is about something which seems to represent a fundamental rejection of claimed American values, which has been done in contravention of regulations / laws re CIA actions, and which is incredibly likely to be in violation of other nations' laws.

      This is an explosive issue -- extremely -- that will do tremendous damage to US relations with the EU, as if BushCo haven't already done enough damage already!

  •  Darth Cheney was very upset (4.00)
    last week at the GOP Senators' lunch and supposedly made an impassioned speech begging the GOP senators to reconsider their position on the anti-torture bill.  Perhaps, in a moment of passion, Darth C. let the existence of the black sites slip out.  As in: "We won't do it here, we won't even do it at Gitmo, we've got these great Black Sites in Eastern Europe where we can torture to our hearts' content and no one will ever know!"

    "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

    by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:48:59 PM PST

  •  Guess Bush (none)
    won't be sitting on Lott's porch next summer enjoying a cool drink in the shade surrounded by the "rubbles" caused by Katrina.

    I bet it was McCain.

    •  Or Hagel (none)
      To be completely honest, I wouldn't be shocked if it were Trent Lott. As bad as he is, I think that Lott does have a concience, unlike the current party leadership. Beside being angry, he may truly want to clean up the GOP.

      Hmm... Did anyone else just hear Candy Crowley say that she's Republican?

      Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

      by rogun on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:23:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, I said to my nearly smashed TV: (none)
        "You stupid effing bitch............"

        Now I know why I never liked her.

      •  I thought Candy Crowley (none)
        couldn't be honest enough to admit it

        I'm shocked.

        Candy Crowley is Shelob

        Regardez! Licorne!

        by dabize on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:37:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  what ... (none)
        ...

        you were "shocked, shocked" by her admission?

        Some times require that you accept circumstances as they are ... claiming blamelessness just doesn't cut it

        by wystler on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:57:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  maybe we shouldn't ... (none)
        ... go there ...

        The New Jersey GOP's website includes a HOT REPUBLICAN WOMEN section, and accepts nominations at rebublicanbabe@jerseygop.com

        feel free to suggest the lovely, alluring Candy ...

        Some times require that you accept circumstances as they are ... claiming blamelessness just doesn't cut it

        by wystler on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:13:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am not shocked that CC is (none)
          a Republican. But why did she just admit this on TV?  Was she bragging on being a Hot Republican Babe?  Meaning she's on the same page as Ann Coulter?  I wouldn't be too proud of that if I were her.

          "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

          by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:22:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think she was giving her opinion as a Republican (none)
            I wasn't paying attention very closely and wasn't exactly sure that I even heard it, which is why I asked.

            I'm like you... I'm not surprised, except that it seemed inappropriate to mention it on air. I knew she had to have been after seeing her slander Kerry in a CNN biography shortly before last year's election.

            Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

            by rogun on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:44:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Correction (none)
        The CNN transcript has Crowley as saying:

        Well, it is, except for if I'm a Republican, I say we don't care where the truth goes, we just want to get to the bottom of it.

        Although I don't trust CNN, that may have been what I heard, as I wasn't paying very close attention. I still think she's a Republican though.

        Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

        by rogun on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:10:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  oh the humanity.... n/t (none)

    "Fitz, don't fail me now !!" ~~Mantan Moreland, bug-eyed actor in "King of the Zombies", 1941

    by seesdifferent on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:49:43 PM PST

  •  Bumbling Idiots.. (none)
    The left does not seem to know what the right hand is doing. All this moral outrage is just posturing. I hope such lunacy prevails till '06.

    "We must be the change we wish to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi

    by jeeves on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:50:34 PM PST

  •  This is fucking beautiful. (4.00)
    Bush already looks like an ass for threatening a veto of the anti-torture legislation while at the same time saying "we don't torture."  Lott & Hastert look like smacked asses for getting all high & mighty about stopping leaks only to find out that one of their own (probably McCain) did the leaking.  Now, assuming McCain is the leaker, he can look like a traitor to his party and have any shot at the 2008 nod ruined--serves him right for campaigning with the torturer-in-chief in 2004.  This is delicious irony.

    Now we just get to sit back & watch the feeding frenzy as the GOP sharks start eating their own.

    Q: Is it ignorance or apathy? A: I don't know and I don't care.

    by GTPinNJ on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:51:07 PM PST

  •  no, THIS is beautiful (none)
    http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/archives/005926.html#comments
    •  the $$ quote from matt margolis (4.00)
      "Careful, lefties; you've asked for this, and now you might just get it. It is good to keep in mind that when you make up a scandal and then using Big Lie tactics push it for all its worth, it might come back to haunt you...and we are a little curious as to just whom leaked this information to the press, as well as leaked other classified information over the past few years. Leaks are leaks, good people...and none of them should happen, right?" man i'd hate to be him right now
  •  "Illegal prisons" equals (4.00)
    "national security".

    Too much for one battered brain.

    An act for which we would have given a German or Japanese double agent a Congressional Medal of Honor, Frist and Hastert want to reward with a charge of treason.

    But nevermind...

    You didn't do it.

    by Earl on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:53:42 PM PST

  •  Check Mate Fristie!! (none)
    Lott--determined to have last laugh.

    Gee it would be AWFUL if said Rep. Senator had to step down.

  •  Tinfoil hat time.... (none)
    Could this have anything to do with the investigative staffer who works for Grassley who was assaulted outside her home?
  •  Don't forget Dana Priest (none)
    This was, I believe, intended as payback for the Judith Miller fiasco, wherein supposedly "liberal" Dana Priest was going to be held in contempt of Congress and sent to the dock for God knows how long. They didn't like it when their mouthpiece got smacked around and turned on them. They ALWAYS seek revenge in the form in which they received pain.

    How delicious that it will come back and bite one of their own. Oh if only it were Martinez or Chafee or somebody in blue territory and forced to step down. Awesome.

  •  Lott is clearly angling for his job back (4.00)
    The best part is that when he finally gets in a position at the top it will be as minority leader and not majority leader

    For those who know me, no explanation is necessary...For those who don't, none is possible.

    by MLDB on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 12:59:26 PM PST

  •  I don't usually agree with Trent Lott. (none)
    But I'll give him credit this time.

    Yeah, bud, we've met the enemy -- and it's y'all.

  •  He's talking about Shelby (Ala) right? n/t (none)
  •  re (none)
    I'm still not clear if they're upset about the prisons...or the LEAK.
    •  please (none)
      Frist and Hastert are upset about the leak because secret torture-prisons, some in old Soviet dungeons, are "vital to our national security."  Sounds like the Onion but that's really their position!

      What I don't know is whether Lott is against the leak or the torture or both.

  •  Hold on a second--bigger issue (4.00)
    "GOP Senators-only meeting"

    Read those words again.  

    Why is an issue of NATIONAl SECURITY being discussed in a GOP Senators-only meeting" when it should be being discussed amongst all Senators, or at least all Senators on the Armed Services, Homeland Security or Intelligence Committees?

    This should be outrageous that a matter of this much importance was kept from the Democrats.  For the Party that recently complained about Democrats calling a closed session to discuss national security to have their own secret session to discuss such a pressing matter is yet another example of their hypocrisy and disdain for the republican form of government for which their party is named.

    •  weekly caucus luncheon (none)
      Both parties have their own weekly caucus luncheon on Tuesdays and I'm 99% sure that's where this happened. Nothing sinister in it. I'm sure the Dems also discuss strategy around national security issues.

      We need not stride resolutely towards catastrophe, merely because those are the marching orders. -- Noam Chomsky

      by kainah on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:09:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  'cept when the Democrats meet (4.00)
        they have to rely on blog rumors--not actual reports. The Republicrat folks get the twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.
      •  Information vs. Strategy (none)
        My question isn't regarding strategy, its regarding information.  

        I have no problem with Democrats and Republicans meeting away from one another to discuss strategy regarding information which is known to both. You would expect this to include how to discuss the information in the form of talking points, etc.

        But, unless I'm misreading something, Lott is suggesting that the INFORMATION was only presented to Republicans.  He doesn't seem to be suggesting the strategy of how to present that information was what was leaked, but the INFORMATION itself and that the Republicans had unique access to the information in question thus it could not have been a Democrat who provided the information in question.

        My question is then, why was the information only available to Republicans?  Who provided the information?

        •  you're right (none)
          Sorry, in my quick reading of it earlier, I missed that Lott was saying the information that was leaked was discussed at that meeting. I was just just responding to the "closed door meeting."

          Of course, we don't really know that the Dems didn't have the same information also. After all, if Frist  & Hastert were planning to blame them for leaking it, they would have had to have it in the first place.

          If the Dems didn't even know about it, then you're right to question this. Since this is just a diarist's recounting of what happened, I'd suggest we probably don't know all the details we need to know to determine if this is a situation where national security info was given to Repubs but not Dems.  

          We need not stride resolutely towards catastrophe, merely because those are the marching orders. -- Noam Chomsky

          by kainah on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:24:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'd like to see a transcript (none)
            I'm looking online, but no luck so far.  

            I think the thing to do is to read what Lott said and to go back to the story in question.  

            If the statement made in the news story was as simple as "a source said their were prison camps in X country" the fact that this was information available only to the Republican Party is a real problem.

            •  Cheney? (none)
              Now, keep in mind, this is from another diary and I still haven't seen a transcript or enough details to truly figure this out.

              But check out this diary:

              Another Diary on the Subject

              Did Cheney leak this information to the Republican Senators?  He was at the meeting, and if they didn't know the information going into the meeting, the Democrats had no knowledge of the information at the time of the news article, and Cheney was the only administration official in the meeting, doesn't that mean Cheney provided the information on the prison to the Republican Senators?

              This could raise a great deal of questions.  We've been hearing a lot about how Cheney is involved in the torture decisions.  Perhaps this is another piece in the puzzle, or a dead end.

              •  IOKIYAR (none)
                Cheney is allowed to leak with impunity to other Republicans, just as Libby and Rove are allowed to leak with impunity to discredit critics of Republicans.

                Get with the program!

                "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

                by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:12:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Republican Security (none)
      is the same as National Security.

      Their first move is to go to the PR. It is not the story it's how we are going to spin it.

      So will they frag their own 2nd Lt?

    •  great point-- (none)
      I'd love to know if only GOP senators knew about the prisons.
      •  Apparently, some minor details were in (none)
        the story...I think there are plenty of democrats who will turn a blind eye to 'secret prisons'...the fact that they're not secret anymore (except of course for their location, population, etc.) is rankling enough to the GOP...but for 'minor' details from a closed meeting to be there...that's just lazy on the part of whoever leaked...it'd be fun to sit in on their next meeting.
    •  ON THE PLUS SIDE (none)
      they can't blme democrats for leaking it

      Transparency + Accountability = Honesty (that way we won't have to rely on trust.)

      by David in Burbank on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:22:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Happy holidays. (4.00)
    In October, we got a Fitzmas present.

    In November, we get a Fristmas present.

    I can't wait for December.

    "I don't reject conservatism because it is followed by conservatives, I reject poor thinking, which conservatives seem especially expert at."

    by dicta on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:06:49 PM PST

  •  Trent Lott wants his job back (none)
    It's been fascinating to watch Trent Lott the last couple months. I'm convinced that he wants his leadership position back and he's working hard to make that happen. And, I'll bet that if he doesn't think he can get it back, he'll retire.

    But these moves are designed to show that he knows how to play the game ... and to set up a contrast with how he plays it and how Fristie does it.

    Go, Trent!  (Although the unfortunate "women or men or minorities" comment came awfully close to reminding people why you got booted in the first place.)

    We need not stride resolutely towards catastrophe, merely because those are the marching orders. -- Noam Chomsky

    by kainah on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:07:05 PM PST

  •  Oh, the irony! (none)
    November 8, 2005
    G.O.P. Leaders Seek Inquiry on Leaks of Government Secrets
    By DAVID STOUT

    WASHINGTON, Nov. 8 - Republican Congressional leaders called today for lawmakers to investigate who told journalists that secret American prisons had been set up overseas for the interrogation of terrorism suspects.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>

    But if this was directed from the WH ala Plame there would be nary a PEEP from these people.

  •  isn't not remaining silent the problem? (none)
    If they'd remained silent, no WaPo story. :)
  •  It just gets better and better (none)
    and better and better and better and better and better and better and better and better and better and better and better and better.....
  •  Too Funny (none)
    This ought to slow the investigation down to a pace even slower than Phase II of the WMD investigation.
  •  Someting about this (none)
    smells fishy, as if a distraction move were being enacted. Stay tuned...

    Can anyone tell me why my American flag was made in China?

    by Skid on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:13:10 PM PST

  •  I guess for Frist (none)
    it's not a big leap from cat killer to torture supporter.

    Bushco, putting the mock in democracy.

    by Southern Bell on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:13:33 PM PST

  •  yahooooooooooooooooooo (none)
    The Senate is our only hope.  Where are the Abe Lincolns of the the modern GOP?
  •  Trent Lott for President in 2008! (ducks) (none)
    hey, I'm just kidding...I know he's already got a seat reserved for himself in hell, if it exists, but I must say that this sudden renaissance of his is quite refreshing to behold.  What other truths can we expect to see from him before he "has a heart attack" on the Senate floor and Frist is 'unable' to save his racist ass?

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

  •  New From CNN (none)
    Frist refuses to comment.

    Alito is Extraordinary.

    by NYC Sophia on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:20:45 PM PST

  •  This will mean that torture/secret prisons (none)
    will be the lead story for a long, long time.

    Wow!

    •  From your lips to God's ears (none)
      If this was indeed a Rovian-Cheneyan move to discredit McCain, then it was stupid of them not to factor this into their calculus.

      "The American people will trust the Democratic Party to defend America when they believe that Democrats will defend other Democrats." Wesley Clark

      by The Termite on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:32:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Per CNN "This may be an ethics (none)
    investagation" Lott says Cheney was in the room and could have been Republican Senator or former CIA agent, who was providing the information.

    Oh, this is soooooo delicious!

    Nothing short of an aroused public can change things, nothing less than democracy is at stake- Bill Moyers

    by maggiemae on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:21:31 PM PST

  •  Point of information (4.00)
    Is ratfuckfest a word?
  •  Powerline (4.00)
    Here's what they had to say earlier today (emphasis mine):

    Could it be that the administration is finally catching on? Bill Bennett pointed out here the hypocrisy of the Washington Post exposing leaked classified information about prisons that the U.S. military operates abroad--information that, unlike the bogus Plame leak, actually will damage a covert CIA operation. We added:

       I like the precedent established by the Plame investigation. I think that CIA leaks of classified information should be investigated, and the leakers should be prosecuted. I want the Post and Times reporters who wrote these stories subpoenaed and questioned about their sources. If they won't answer, they should go to jail. The leakers can be caught, and when caught, they should be prosecuted.

    Maybe someone was listening. The AP reported just a few minutes ago that Bill Frist and Dennis Hastert are calling for an investigation into the disclosure of the secret detention sites. Their letter calling for the investigation said in part:

       If accurate, such an egregious disclosure could have long-term and far-reaching damaging and dangerous consequences, and will imperil our efforts to protect the American people and our homeland from terrorist attacks.

        What is the actual and potential damage done to the national security of the United States and our partners in the global war on terror?

        The letter says the leaking of classified information by employees of the U.S. government appears to have increased in recent years, "establishing a dangerous trend that, if not addressed swiftly and firmly, likely will worsen."

    I don't know whether this will go anywhere, but I'm glad they finally noticed.

    •  What exactly are (none)
      the long-term and far-reaching damaging and dangerous consequences of this leak?

      It may end secret detention centers where prisoners are tortured?

      How the hell is that a bad thing?

      That's a good consequence.

      •  That's easy (none)
        When they think a Democrat is the leaker, the harm to national security is always self-evident.  Another manifestation of IOKIYAR.

        If Sandy Berger had leaked the name of a covert CIA operative, after all, they'd be telling us every day how it probably led to the deaths of countless intelligence assets.  When the White House is behind the leak, though, it's one excuse after another for why it's no harm, no foul.

      •  long-term (none)
        The secret prisoners aren't fans of the US anymore, maybe on account of all that illegal imprisonment and torture.  If the Repugs let them loose, there's no telling what they'll do.
  •  Too bad we didn't elect... (4.00)
    Lott president.

    Then maybe we wouldn't have all the problems we have around here!

    (Ha!)

    New on EWM: "Operation Choke the Chicken"
    DHS won't be caught with its pants down by Avian Flu

  •  Stink Bomb! (none)
    Man oh man. Trent Lott has been biding his time and waiting to slide the shiv in to everyone who screwed him out of the Majority Leader job. Payback's a bitch, ain't it?

    You can't teach an old dogma new tricks. Dorothy Parker

    by garbo on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:24:09 PM PST

  •  HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! (none)
    "We can not remain silent. We have met the enemy, and it is us."

    oh man, it really seems that ever since the GOP stole the 2004 election karma has been really biting them in the ass.

    and i'm loving every single second of it.

    The Bill of Rights, and not the Ten Commandments, is what should be on the our federal buildings

    by chinkoPelinke on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:25:06 PM PST

  •  Ah! (none)
    There's nothing sweeter than new-found self-righteousness, is there? How wonderful it must be to be a GOP senator on Capitol Hill, where bad guys get to become good guys with a WWF abruptness.

    Welcome to the light, Trent, you hair-helmeted racist, cocksucker. How's the house coming?

    JP
    http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:26:22 PM PST

  •  Richard III Republicans (4.00)
    "We can not remain silent. We have met the enemy, and it is us."
    T. Lott

    Translated:

    "From hell's black heart I stab at thee..." (Shakespeare)
    Some Richard III action going on with the Republicans?
    Self-inflicted wounds?

    Good god.

    Beer's on me!

    •  How pathetic (none)
      ...that Lott now has to resort to quote Pogo.

      Tony, is there a news link to this? Where did you hear it?

      JP
      http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

      Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

      by jurassicpork on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:30:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not Richard III (none)
      Melville.  From Moby Dick.  And tip'o the hat to the Trekkies above, quoted by Ricardo Montalban as Khan at the end of the Wrath of Khan as he becomes a galactic suicide bomber.
      •  Correct. It's actually interesting how often... (none)
        ...Moby Dick has been used in Trek movies. It was also referenced at numerous points in Star Trek: First Contact

        Trek movies often make classical literature references, like name of the prison in Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country (itself a reference to Shakespeare) was Rura Penthe, which was the prison from which Captain Nemo escaped from in Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

        by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:58:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (none)
          ...[Moby Dick] was also referenced at numerous points in Star Trek: First Contact

          That's b/c the NextGen movies were mostly crap attempts to recycle ideas from the original-cast movies.

          I liked ST:TNG as a show, but by the time the NextGen movies came along, Berman and Braga had a death grip on the entire Trek franchise, and the movies sucked.

          YMMV.

      •  hell's black intelligencer (none)
        Beer's still on me... :)
        Mixing metaphors when drunk with happiness (visions of melting wicked witches and drowning white whale obsessed captains and barking demon dogs and various Darths-- a beautiful chimera) .
        Here's the real good stuff from Richard III (insert "neocons" or "BushCo" when Richard is mentioned-- Cheers!)

        Richard yet lives, hell's black intelligencer,
        Only reserv'd their factor to buy souls
        And send them thither; but at hand, at hand,
        Ensues his piteous and unpitied end.
        Earth gapes, hell burns, fiends roar, saints pray,
        To have him suddenly convey'd from hence.
        Cancel his bond of life, dear God, I pray,
        That I may live and say, "The dog is dead."

        Richard III
        (IV.iii)

  •  Hee! Hee! (none)
    You gotta love it.  What a bunch of dopes behind the wheel of the ship called America.

    Defeat Kay Bailey Hutchinson in 2006

    by txbirdman on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:27:28 PM PST

  •  Hindrocket's got you covered, Frist! (none)
    Here's Hindrockaet gloating.

    But pardon my ignorance, just when did Hindrocket come out so strongly for a complete investigation of the Plame leak?  Must have been napping that day; can anyone help me out?....

    Cheers,

  •  Lott jumps off the bridge.... n/c (none)

    "How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right." Black Hawk

    by Gabriele Droz on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:28:22 PM PST

  •  Those bastards! (none)
    We can't have people going around introducing information to the public that suggests that Dear Leader was lying when he said we didn't torture people. Bush doesn't lie, that would be unholy.

    That must be disinformation, we don't really have a network of secret prisons with foreign interrogation helpers, where people who are suspected of being the wrong place at the wrong time are taken to be placed in stress positions or made to undergo pretend drowning in order to make them give up their grandma's secret recipe for hummus.

    Besides, most people understand by now that torture doesn't work, except to induce the subject to give up the story his tormenters want to hear. Even Sipowitz knew that.

  •  Ha ha ha (none)
    White House Staff Begins Ethics Classes

    By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON - White House staff members began attending mandatory briefings Tuesday about ethical conduct and the handling of classified information in the wake of the
    CIA leak investigation and the indictment and resignation of Vice President
    Dick Cheney's chief of staff.

    •  Yeah (none)
      White House Ethics Classes no doubt taught by right wingers would be like the KKK holding classes in Diversity and Racial Tolerance to one Another. I am sure it is just a Front and besides, many higher level officials do not have to attend these. I betcha Rove is not a student, probably a teacher. HAHAHA!!

      America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

      by wishingwell on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:57:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Someone's got to put his foot down (3.50)
    and that foot is me"

    Dean Vernon Wurmer

  •  Freepistan in denial (none)

    If I worry about the future, will the future change?--Quai Chang Caine

    by Enjoy Every Sandwich on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:35:00 PM PST

    •  I love how it is the fault of McCain's Manchurian (none)
      Candidate chip that one of the FReepi were slaging off McCain with.

      Yeah, he is still a sleeper for Mao and was programed while in the Hanoi Hilton.

      God those people are fucking a pathetic waste of skin.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:55:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I broke (none)
      my promise, clicked on the link, and stepped into the festering turd. And there I found this gem:

      It is time to call out the CIA....who in the CIA is trying to ruin Pres. Bush? Why are there constant leaks in the CIA?

      I am laughing like a Krazy person. Please make me stop. My belly hurts.

      •  and I do love their complete lack of Irony (4.00)

        To: slowhand520
        CIA needs a purge. The old fashioned kind, just like Uncle Joe Stalin did...

        190 posted on 11/08/2005 1:19:28 PM PST by clintonh8r (Civil War II. Are you ready?)

        yep.  he really did just endorse Papa Joe Stalin and his methods....I'm not sure whether to laugh hysterically or get hysterical.

        Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

        by Magorn on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:15:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Honestly? (none)
          We should probably take these people as seriously as we take ourselves.

          Sometimes we can be moved to say some pretty juvenile responses when my blood is boiling: it's the nature of this kind of forum.

          Look at that guy's signature; look at his tag. Try and think of liberal-leaning equivalents you may have seen.

        •  Honestly? (none)
          We should probably take these people as seriously as we take ourselves.

          Sometimes I can be moved to make some pretty juvenile responses when my blood is boiling.

          Look at that guy's signature; look at his tag. Try and think of liberal-leaning equivalents you may have seen.

      •  Yes, calling all CIA subversives (none)
        See, if you know which CIA operatives are the subversives, i.e., undermining our Dear Leader, its okay to out them.  Its not okay to out the Vice President, whom the Dear Leader still loves and respects even though they're not quite as tight as they used to be, when the Vice President leaks to a bunch of blabbermouth Senators in order to convince them to stick with the Administration's torture policy.  Even though we don't torture.  Unless we have to. Then it's okay.

        "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

        by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:31:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  This is Priceless (4.00)

      To: Soul Seeker
      Unfortunately it won't work. The MSM will just spin this that the Republicans are just trying to divert the issue, the real issue being President Bush is operating illegal detention centers for terrorists.

      19 posted on 11/08/2005 8:35:58 AM PST by half-cajun

      yeah that darn MSM "spinning" the truth again.  You just want to shake someone like this and say "Right answer, Wrong analysis"

      and of course when his prediction comes true, he will sit back and give a little self-satisfied cluck, having been "proven" right.

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:06:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If a Republican senator (none)
    did leak this info, who do you wanna take bets who it was?

    I bet on John McCain. It would be his best bet for scuttling Cheney's (ahem) initiatives.

    JP
    http://jurassicpork.blogspot.com

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:35:12 PM PST

  •  Okay, wait a minute... (none)
    ....someone on the original post about the prisons said that BBC did a documentary on this seven months ago. Either there was MORE information in the "leak," or there wasn't a documentary, or the leak wasn't a leak.

    When Jesus returns, religious wingnuttia will have him committed to an asylum. - anonymous

    by Doug in SF on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:35:20 PM PST

  •  This doesn't look like Lott backstabbing Frist, (4.00)
    et al.

    It seems that Frist knew as much as Lott when he wrote the letter to Justice.  If it was a GOP senator meeting, Frist knew about it.

    The interesting thing here is that if Lott is correct, then Frist wrote the letter hoping Justice would nail the Republican Senator who leaked.

    If he's thinking it might have been McCain, he may be hoping he can destroy McCain.

    Did you really expect good governance from those who scorn government?

    by Job52 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:35:59 PM PST

  •  ah HA! (none)
    I knew Lott would eventually screw them back.

    You think we hate Rove, how is it to have him stomp you in your own party!

    oh, yes... you know you are bad when you drive even Lott to do... the unthinkable... the right thing!

    of course... we'll have to wait to see how it unfolds.

  •  Hell hath no fury as a Majority Leader scorned (none)

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:38:17 PM PST

  •  Is there a link to this quote/story? (4.00)
    I have yet to see anything on the newswires or otherwise.
  •  If This Subject Was Not So Serious (none)

    and dangerous for the US and the world

    I could freely -

    ROTFLOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The Republicans are starting to look like clowns and that really is not funny considering they hold the nuclear triggers (I mean REAL nuclear weapons, not the Senate procedure weapons).

    Today's NYT OpEd blasting the Bush Administration (no punches pulled) is a bit scarey considering we have more then 3 years left with these suckers.

    God help us!

  •  This could be cleared up today (none)
    Dana Priest could end the speculation instantly.

    richb

  •  This is TOOOO FUCKING FUNNY!!!! (none)
    DEMS need to get in front of this now and start calling the GOP out on the fact that they are so very upset that someone LEAKED the existence of ILLEGAL BLACK TORTURE SITES but are NOT upset about the fact that ILLEGAL BLACK TORTURE SITES EXIST AT ALL!

    Oh fuck I hope this makes the Daily Show and Olberman!!!

  •  I'm reminded of a line from a movie.... (none)
    In the Hunt for Red October the Soviet ambassador is meeting with the sec of state who says: "You mean you've lost another submarine."

    Only this time it's more like a Lott talking to Frist saying:

    "You mean we've leaked another bit of classified information?"

    Oh Louisiana, oh Louisiana They're trying to wash us away, oh Lord, they're trying to wash us away

    by lalo456987 on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:46:54 PM PST

  •  but wait! (none)
    what about the legality of the prisons in the first place? might that trump the whole leak matter? i sense recklessness and disarray.
  •  HELLO!!!!! (none)
    Why is it so widely assumed that there was a leak?

    Did WaPo perhaps get the story directly from Scotland, or perhaps on of the blogs/diaries discussing CIA Torture Flights?

    Sunday Herald Inside Story

    Scottish Police Investigation

    Check the dates.

    One goose, fully cooked. One gander, gun to his head.

    by PatsBard on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:54:47 PM PST

    •  LondonYank's Diary (none)
      Dec 2004 Torture Flight Diary with link to WaPo story.

      One goose, fully cooked. One gander, gun to his head.

      by PatsBard on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:03:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  CIA's been confessing to Priest (none)
      For quite some time now (sorry couldn't resist the pun)  She's got deep sources all over Langely.  From reading her articles and her Washington Post.com  online chats (Wed at 1pm EST every week, highly recommended) I get the strong impression that her major sources are a cadre of current and retired D. Ops lifers who are extremely unhappy with how things are being run right now.

      She of Course ain't saying a damn thing directly.

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:20:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just saw (none)
    Wolf Blitzer reporting on this. Its all over the media.

    What a fucked up bunch of assholes. They have absolutely no inhibition when it comes to leaking matters of national security. They are like a slice of fucking Swiss cheese (or is it Freedom Cheese?).

    During the `04 election, they were having fits simply because Sandy Berger mistakenly took a few Xerox copies of a note that HE wrote.

    Let's see how the RNC leadership reacts to this news. Let's see how many of them have a non-empty scrotum.

  •  Bush will revoke promise (none)
    I bet now he won't want to help Trent rebuild his house.  

    Check out my lte archive at http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomletters and feel free to use my ideas for your own lte's.

    by DemDachshund on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:57:10 PM PST

  •  Enough!!! (none)
    We need to claim our country back...

    these yahoos are destroying it

    Help!!!!

    Harry Reid, Chuck Hagel, Joe Biden, anybody!!  Help!

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -Albert Einstein

    by Grodge on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 01:58:47 PM PST

  •  so I have two questions (none)
    1. What will happen with the investigation? Frist initiated this with a letter, so pulling it off the table would be spot-lighting his hypocrisy.

    2. What if Frist already knew it was a GOP Senator? Particularly either Hagel or Frist....don't you think the good Doctor would want to fire a torpedo into their Presidential aspirations?
    •  Just thinking the same thing (none)
      You probably already know this by now, but CNN is reporting that the CIA has asked the DOJ to investigate. This made me wonder if Frist might be wishing that he hadn't sent that letter now.

      Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

      by rogun on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:55:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Flying Spaghetti Monster (none)
    just made CNN!! Ahh, the Power and the Glory! Hail to our Supreme Noodle!
  •  only mccain has half a conscience (none)
    grassley and shelby?- get a grip~
  •  Confirming confidential information... (none)
    While Frist / Hastert hedged with the "if true" qualification, didn't Lott just outright confirm the accuracy of the WaPo report with his comments?  Is he subject to the same rule that you don't confirm even publicly printed info if you know it to be classified that we've been talking about in the context of Plame?
  •  No duh (none)
    "We can not remain silent. We have met the enemy, and it is us."

    We know.


    I've got an overload of bottomless thought right here in my left fist

    by Harry Tuttle on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:08:12 PM PST

  •  who leaked? (none)
    I bet Utah's own Orin Hatch.

    He's done it before!

    "Having Ann Coulter on your network debating the 'meaning' of the Fitzgerald investigation isn't relevant...It's like watching a dog crap to music."-Hunter

    by Last Robot on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:11:48 PM PST

    •  Why would Hatch try to derail Frist (none)
      and his party over this?

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:13:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Like I said, he's done it before. (none)
        Hatch is a serial leaker.  

        He leaked that we knew where bin Laden was a few hours before we were going to get him back in the fall of 2001 based on satellite phone signals.  That was immediately when Al Quaeda stopped using sat phones and we missed capture due to Hatch's leaking.  I seem to recall that Lott was very pissed about that back then and said as much.

        Hatch also leaked some stuff back in the 90's -- don't recall exactly what at the moment but I seem to recall something dealing with Serbia.

        I'm just basing my speculation on what appears to be a pattern, esp. since Hatch has gotten away with it in the past.  I'm betting if he did do it, it wasn't for the reason of embarassing anyone, but in his mind it would put fear into Al Quaeda.

        Hatch is just that dumb.

        "Having Ann Coulter on your network debating the 'meaning' of the Fitzgerald investigation isn't relevant...It's like watching a dog crap to music."-Hunter

        by Last Robot on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:20:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  This reminds me more of the release (none)
    of the Pentagon Papers to the NYT and WAPO by Daniel Ellsberg the question is the leak have any thing to do with "national security" or mor to do with bad plubicity for the administration.

    ...the man was shot dead by a gun that didn't make any noise But it wasn't the bullet that laid him to rest was the low spark of high-heeled boys.

    by Low Spark on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:13:03 PM PST

  •  This is why (none)
    the democrat sentors do not get to see what the gop sentors do

    http://www.fas.org/...

    OR

    http://www.fas.org/...

    It isn't enough to expose a lie. It is necrssary to propagate the truth. That is the duty of a free press and a free people.

    by Luetta on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:15:02 PM PST

    •  But the Minority Leaders are listed in that (none)
      (ii) The only Members of Congress whom you or your expressly designated officers may brief regarding classified or sensitive law enforcement information are the Speaker of the House, the House Minority Leader, the Senate Majority and Minority Leaders, and the Chairs and Ranking Members of the Intelligence Committees in the House and Senate.

      One goose, fully cooked. One gander, gun to his head.

      by PatsBard on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:19:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yay! (none)
    This is what happens when Democrats fight! At the grassroots, at the DNC, in the Senate leadership, in races all over the country. We pressure the media, we pressure Washington, and the Repugs feel the heat.

    We keep the pressure on the scumbags. And the pressure causes the scumbags to screw each other over. This is how it works.

    They did it to us for 40 years. Now it is our turn. Revenge is the sweetest taste of all.

  •  GOP Insider Secrets (4.00)
    Am I the only one that's disturbed about the "GOP Senators Only" part of this story?  

    It begs the question, how much else is God's Own Party hiding from the Democrats and rest of the world?

  •  and it is us." (none)
    Is this on video?

    Cannot WAIT for the Dems to use that in a campaign ad!

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire

    by poemless on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:19:40 PM PST

  •  Irony--delicious (none)
    This morning:

    Said one Hill source: "Talk about a leak that damaged national security! How will we ever get our allies to cooperate if they fear that their people will be targeted by al Qaeda."

    Tomorrow:

    Said the same hill source: "D'oh!"

  •  ? Planned to divert attention from expected ... (4.00)
    elections losses tonight. Then the talking point is the loss is due to Lott's comments, and not G W Bush's leadership in the past 5 years.
    Any thoughts?
  •  I think it's sweet! (none)
    The Repugs are so nice! They knew it was my birthday and ordered some clowns for the party!

    Thanks, Bill and Denny! You guys remind me of the Keystone Kops.

  •  are all people (4.00)
    with the name Pat Roberts/Pat Robertson
    just total idiots

    so SENATOR PAT (as opposed to REVEREND PAT) is on CNN saying the senate shutdown by Harry Reid emboldens the terrorists.

    ah-ha!  Osama and Zarqawi are CSPAN addicts and plan all their attacks around the senate and house schedule

    He may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: he really is an idiot. Send him back to his father and brothers...

    by distributorcap on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:24:37 PM PST

    •  Reid shutdown emboldens terrorists (none)
      Of course. ANYTHING that embarrasses, questions, or otherwise annoys Bush emboldens terrorists.  Bush is the only force on Earth that terrorists fear.  Bush is singlehandedly holding back the terrorist horde.

      Didn't you know that?

      "Mommy, did people know that Bush was stupid when they voted for him?"

      by litigatormom on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:37:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kinda like the comedian (forgot who) (none)
        who talked about being afraid of flying. And that he was convinced that the aircraft staying aloft was predicated on how stiff he could keep his legs pushed against the seat in front of him through the flight.

        Bush really finds being Dear Leader "hard work" when he has to constantly have some muscle group constantly clenched in order to hold back the barbarian hordes through his omnipotent will and Hey-sus powers.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

        by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:46:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  LOL (none)
      "Oh damn.. because of that pig-eating Harry Ried, those infidels are showing Book Review on CSPAN2... NOW we must bath the infidels in blood for this affront to our people...!!!"

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:06:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Whole Damn GOP (none)
    is channeling Rove, at this point.

    What better way to distract the public from their wussy refusal to call for a Congressional investigation into the FELONY committed by a member of the Bush White House by leaking the name of a CIA operative (which is such a national security scandal and belies all their spin that THEY are the party of national pride and security!) by setting up this BOGUS investigation into what member of their party leaked information about the fact that our country, a democracy, is running torture jails all over the world?

    They get to look like they are trying to maintain party unity and loyalty, they are trying to maintain national security, and that the CIA leak is a trivial matter, to boot.

    And they get to claw at each others' faces a bit, in the course of this insanity, and so relieve the what must be TERRIBLE internal pressure that they all feel, being so corrupt and malevolent and incapable and WUSSY and all.

    The whole thing stinks of group pathology.

  •  Deep Throat 2 (none)
    Watergate's Deep Throat was second in command at the FBI. My guess is there is a new Deep Throat placed high in the CIA who set this up. Maybe even bugged their private meeting.

    I see books, movies and the total collapse of the neocon cabal.

    My other favorite scenario is one of the fools blabbed to his mistress who was canny enough to cash in on the story.

    Same outcome: books, movies and the total collapse of the neocon cabal.

  •  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (none)
    The most beautiful part of all this are the crickets' deafening chirps over at redstate.org
    HAHAHAHAHAHA....honestly, how do they get around day to day without absolutely anything to stand on.
  •  CIA recommends matter be investigated by DoJ (4.00)
    CNN just reported that the CIA has asked the Department of Justice to investigate this 'leak.'  Why do I still feel uncomfortable about all of this, as if a witchunt is about to be begun.

    I certainly don't like the idea of the WashPost reporter being subpoenaed to reveal her sources on the story--that would definitely have a chilling impact on real journalism.

    I can't help but wonder, however, if the GOP is digging two holes for itself at once by (i) investigating its own, and (ii) keeping these "black sites" in the news.  Let them justify secret prisons in Soviet gulags--I just saw Leahy on CNN kick ass on this point.  Blitzer asked him about the new 'leak inquiry' and Leahy basically just said 'why should we be having these prisons in the first place?'  DAMN RIGHT GO DEMS.

  •  cat killer (none)
    bill frist must be one of the worst operators in the congress when it comes to pulling political moves.  good news for us he is the head of the senate.  this guy couldn't bluff his way out of a poker game consisting of blind people.  i have always said that these fucks were never smart or politically savvy.  it is just that the blindfold is slowly coming off certain citizens and news people.
  •  Revenge is a dish best served cold (none)
    Hooah to Lott for getting his.

    Do your part for world peace - visit Iraqi Blog Count and interact!

    by Sharon Jumper on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 02:46:13 PM PST

    •  Spot On (none)
      This was a well orchestrated Republican/Rove plot.  The goal was to distract from the Plame investigation.  The proof is in the talking points.  Go to www.hairyfishnuts.com for a transcript of Rush Limbaugh today.  He was following up on the info that a investigation was requested.  His point, they have been investigating the non-outing of a non-covert CIA agent, well now THEY have leaked info that seeks to undermine the war on terror, the war in Iraq, impeach Bush, endangers America blah blah blah.  THEY of course being Liberal and Democrats.  

      The problem - Lott for whatever reason did not play along.  Revenge, as good a guess as any.  I don't think Lott has a conscience, so it cannot be that.  What a bunch of absolute pigs.  The Dem leadership must pounce all over this.  

  •  We are being played..... (none)
    The Repugs new this would come out so now they have made it a "leak investigation"  and can now say, "well, I don't want to talk about an ongoing investigation"

    Therefore the press will never get any answers on our gulags

  •  I am glad a Rethug senator leaked (none)
    it and I am glad the Rethuglican party is imploding.  This is evidence of massive party dissent and infighting.  C'mon Democrats, now is attack time!!  Put a bunch more torpedoes into USS GOP.
  •  Gotta Love D.C. (none)
    This town has more leaks than an R. Kelly home video!
    http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
  •  Lou Dobbs reporting that Frist hasn't signed paper (none)
    Lou Dobbs just reported that Frist hasn't signed the investigation request yet. Hastert has already signed though.

    Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

    by rogun on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:07:22 PM PST

  •  Here is Lott's Quote (none)
    Lott:

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Top U.S. Republican lawmakers are seeking a congressional investigation into leaks of information used by The Washington Post in an article on the CIA's secret global prison system, congressional aides said on Tuesday.

    Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House of Representatives Speaker Dennis Hastert in a draft letter asked the intelligence committees to "immediately initiate a joint investigation into the possible release of classified information."

    Mississippi Republican Sen. Trent Lott told reporters he thought information for the story may have come from a Republican Senate staffer.

    "There's no question that there was a discussion to a Washington Post reporter by a staff person who apparently knew everything that went on there last Tuesday," Lott said, referring to a Senate Republican meeting last week.

    "I just think we spend too much time around here chasing rabbits," Lott said. "You give 10 senators information it's going to get out, so what are you going to prove here?"

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:19:48 PM PST

  •  The average voter . . . (none)
     . . . embodied by my wife whose views of these matters political are framed by the surface "chatter" in the news, reacted this way when I told her in the briefest of terms what the "New Leak" caption on the TV screen referred to:

    "Hah! They should just ask Cheney," she laughed.

    This, IMO, is great news. The public, if my anecdote is representative, equates leaks with Cheney. If so, the Frist/Hastert move will definitely backfire.

    Even if the Post story by Dana Priest relied on no GOP Senate sources, people will perceive that it did and it will be Cheney's fault for having leaked this in the meeting with GOP Senators.

    Torture, leaks, Cheney. Those three words are getting locked together in people's minds.

    Bush managed to wrongly equate 9/11 and Iraq in the mind of the public. With no effort on the part of the Dems, torture, gulags, leaks and Cheney are equated, all to the Dems' benefit!

  •  Whoever DID Leak It. (none)
    Did the country a service. If it's Republican, I'll still thank him/her.

    "We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang seperately." - Ben Franklin

    by RandyMI on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:37:33 PM PST

  •  A General Says the Wilson Exposed his Wife (none)
    Retired Army General and FOX News contributor Paul Vallely says he knew former ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife Valerie Plame was a CIA agent long before she was outed in a newspaper column in 2003 because Wilson told him so. Vallely says Wilson volunteered the information in at least three separate conversations while both men were waiting to appear on FOX News programs during the fall of 2002.

    Wilson's lawyers are demanding a retraction and an apology and in an e-mail received by the World Net Daily, Wilson himself called the claim "slanderous." Vallely, however, is refusing to back off his story.

    Faux

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:43:00 PM PST

  •  Why a leak and not a speech? (none)
    If the Post's source was indeed a GOP Senator, why leak, and risk prosecution, rather than announce the existence of the secret camps from the floor, under the Constitution's immunity from prosecution?

    IMO, this eliminates McCain, Grassley, Lugar, Graham, Coburn, Snowe, Collins, and Chafey, who'd have taken the latter course.

    My guess: Sununu.

    A Senator YOU can afford
    $1 contributions only.
    Masel for Senate
    1214 E. Mifflin St.
    Madison, WI 53703

    by ben masel on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 03:43:41 PM PST

  •  Something rotten in the state of Denmark (none)
    I don't believe this story.

    Consider the possibility that Cheney and the Senate Republicans wanted to kill several birds with one stone - not just distract the Senate Dems, but cast aspersions on the CIA as well.

    Make up a story.  Feed it to the press.  Let it get legs and do its dirt.

    At the opportune time, jump out and say, "Sorry, we were just kidding - we knew you folks would chase this kind of story!!!"

    Why would Lott do this?  To trap Democrats, and discredit the CIA, not to mention to make Cheney look like he's done nothing wrong in the Plame affairs, that Dems are chasing shadows.

    This story could be a total bluff.  And that would fit the Republican pattern, by the way - think Dan Rather and the National Guard story, which was likely a true story with made-up documents, planted to trap Rather.

    Fool me twice, call me stupid...

  •  Cover story for Pat Roberts (none)
    They're giving Pat Roberts a cover for not finshing "part II" in a timely manner.

    This leak will "be so important to national security in comparison to part II (old news)" will be the talking point.

  •  On the List (none)
    Looks like Bill Frist and Dennis Hastert should jump to the top of this week's "Avenging Angel's List of Conservative Transgressors."
  •  Lott's no angel (none)
    and he has an axe to grind, but I do love it when the sharks eat their own.
  •  Look at this!!! (none)
    The WaPo's coverage of issue:

    "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk," said one senior House Republican, who spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid crossing the leadership.

    story

    Only one thing left to do...Dr. Phil to Intervene in Troubled Republican Family

  •  Umm, Atrios posted this exact same post (none)
    Right before you did:


    Too funny. Hastert and Frist make a big show of calling for an investigation into a leak allegedly affecting national security -- the locations of secret "black site" torture prisons. And then -- BOOM!!! Lott just said, Tuesday afternoon, that he thinks it was a GOP Senator who leaked the info to the Washington Post last week. He says the details had been discussed at a GOP Senators-only meeting last week, and that many of those details made it into the WaPo story.

    Money quote from Lott; "We can not remain silent. We have met the enemy, and it is us."

    All just reported on CNN. We are, folks, witnessing the full-on implosion of the national Republican Party. And not a second too soon.

    Care to credit Atrios?

  •  Trent Lott On Anti-Depressents? (none)
     I think Trent Lott just started up anti-depressants about four weeks ago.  He has been so happy and having so much fun.  After Reid and the Democrats shut down the Senate, Bill Frist was so mad and hurt he seemed ready to simultaniously spit and cry at the same time, then all the GOP dissappeared in shock.

    Then out comes Trent Lott, as happy as a pig in slop to give interviews on CNN.

    Since then he has been on TV everyday, casually strolling down senate hallways giving candid interviews to reporters and saying things that are really quite honest and funny.

    But I think it's great.  He used to be so angry and stiff he was painful to watch.  Then two weeks ago he was the first Republican by two weeks to call for a complete housecleaning of the entire WH staff and cabinet. He totally beat 99% of the Democrats to the punch.

    I am afraid the rest of the GOP is going to do a black bag  "Bag Em and Grab Em" job on him and he will dissappear somewhere.

    Maybe we should offer him santuary if he renounces his past and converts to the Democratic Party.  

    And  Don't Forget To Vote For Second Top Right-Wing Nut Job and nominate candidates for an extended list.  

    Top 10 Right-Wing Nut Jobs and Other Internet Chuckles (Poll)

    So Far the results are:

    Who Do You Think Should Be The Second TOP Right-Wing Nut Job of the Week After Bush?

    Bill Frist    7 votes - 9 %  
    Micheal Brown    0 votes - 0 %  
    Bill O'Reilly    3 votes - 3 %  
    Tom Delay    5 votes - 6 %  
    Ann Coulter    8 votes - 10 %  
    Karl Rove    5 votes - 6 %  
    Harriet Miers    0 votes - 0 %  
    Scott Libby    1 vote - 1 %  
    Donald Rumsfeld    1 vote - 1 %  
    Dick Cheney    24 votes - 31 %  
    Rush Limbaugh    14 votes - 18 %  
    Sean Hannity    9 votes - 11 %  

    77 Total Votes

    A non-partisan, and bi-partisan pursuit of high crimes and misdemeanors in the White House and Pentagon

    by HoundDog on Tue Nov 08, 2005 at 06:37:47 PM PST

  •  Hurting national security? (none)
    I say our security can only be strengthened if the governement is put on notice in front of the whole world that it is not allowed to commit human rights violations or to keep them secret.

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