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More violence:

A suicide bomber drove a car packed with explosives into a Shiite funeral tent on Saturday and blew it up among the mourners, killing at least 18 Iraqi civilians and wounding 18 others.

Five American soldiers were killed Saturday and another five were wounded in two separate roadside bomb attacks in Baiji, a predominantly Sunni town in northern Iraq. The United States military said all were with the Army's 101st Airborne Division, but gave no other details. With the attacks, the American death toll killed in the Baiji area rose to seven since Thursday.

. . . American and Iraqi officials have been predicting that violence would intensify as nationwide elections scheduled for Dec. 15 grew nearer. Suicide attacks, which had fallen off in recent months, have begun to surge again. With 92 American military deaths, October was the fourth-deadliest month for American soldiers since the invasion in March 2003.

Yesterday, President Bush said:

Our strategy can be summed up this way: As Iraqis stand up, we will stand down, and when our commanders on the ground tell me that Iraqi forces can defend their freedom, our troops will come home with the honor they have earned.

The second part of our strategy is a political strategy. Iraqis are moving forward in building a democracy. A month ago, millions of Iraqis turned out to vote for a constitution that guarantees fundamental freedoms and lays the foundation for lasting democracy. In a few weeks, Iraqis will vote again to choose a fully constitutional government to lead them for the next four years. Iraq is making amazing progress from the days of being under the thumb of a brutal dictator. Think about this: In two-and-a-half years, they've gone from tyranny to an election for a transitional government, to the ratification of a constitution, to the election of a free government. The Iraqi people are proving their determination to build a future founded on democracy and hope, and the United States of America will help them succeed.

The fifth element of our strategy in the war on terror is to deny the militants future recruits by replacing hatred and resentment with democracy and hope across the broader Middle East. If the Middle East is left to grow in bitterness, if countries remain in misery while radicals stir the resentments of millions, then that part of the world will be a source of endless conflict and mounting danger.

. . . One of our top commanders in Iraq, Major General William Webster, says that setting a deadline for our withdrawal from Iraq would be, "a recipe for disaster." General Webster is right. So long as I'm the Commander-in-Chief, our strategy in Iraq will be driven by the sober judgment of our military commanders on the ground. We will fight the terrorists in Iraq. We will stay in the fight until we have achieved the brave -- the victory that our brave troops have fought for.

What pretty words from a perfect fool.

First, he believes a Constitution overwhelmingly disapproved by the Sunni, the very group fueling the Iraqi insurgency, is the solution to the political problems in Iraq. If he truly believes this, what more can one say? There can be no hope until there is true sober judgment, not this nonsense offered by Bush.

Second, is he still clinging to this ridiculous idea that the United States is NOT the focus of hatred in the Arab world? Does he believe that he is democratizing the Middle East? Delusion. Sheer delusion. Again, this is simply not the view of a man who has a freaking clue.

Third, I wonder if General William Webster has been introduced to General Casey:

The top U.S. commander in Iraq has submitted a plan to the Pentagon for withdrawing troops in Iraq, according to a senior defense official.

Gen. George Casey submitted the plan to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. It includes numerous options and recommends that brigades -- usually made up of about 2,000 soldiers each -- begin pulling out of Iraq early next year.

Does Bush even know what is going on? Who can have any confidence in this Administration on Iraq? It becomes virtually impossible to even discuss the relative merits of alternate strategies when the Bush Administration is involved.

This is the worst President and worst Administration in the history of the nation. The situation would be near impossible to manage for the best of Presidents and Administrations. When we are governed by the worst, it is little wonder that folks like John Murtha advocate withdrawal as soon as is practicable.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:04 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Impossible to trust such delusion (4.00)
    As Nanci Pelosi said: Dangerously in Denial

    I think we have just heard the sound of one hand clapping... And it lost by 403 x 3 on the House.

    by lawnorder on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:04:39 PM PST

  •  Republicans call Bush "resolute" (none)
    We call him "pig-headed."
  •  The absolute worst, no question (none)
    So long as I'm the Commander-in-Chief, our strategy in Iraq will be driven by the sober judgment of our military commanders on the ground.

    Let's just hope that their judgements are more sober than Bush's.

    This shit makes me want to cry every damn day. It never gets easier to read about.

    The basic division in society isn't liberals vs. conservatives, but those who believe that they should control the love lives of strangers and those who don't.

    by tempest in a d cup on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:07:17 PM PST

    •  I used to think he was #3 (none)
      behind Coolidge and Harding. The fiscal irresponsiblity of the Republicans back then helped bring considerable doom to the world at the end of the decade and into the 1930s.

      Then the reaction to 9/11 came....he was immediately bumped up to #1. Its just extra icing on the cake from there (icing made of white phospherous that is).

      The Only Constant is Change

      by proudprogressiveCA on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:34:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Coolidge and Harding (none)
        Those were my top two before. Bush has managed to completely blow them out of the water. At this point, I would love Coolidge to come back form the dead and take over.

        It would take some serious effort to be a worse President than Bush. I don't think I could do it if I tried.

        The basic division in society isn't liberals vs. conservatives, but those who believe that they should control the love lives of strangers and those who don't.

        by tempest in a d cup on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:40:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  "sober" (none)
      I think Bush has "sober" on his mind. Could that mean he's hitting the sauce again?  He's looking like a zombie in any case.
    •  So let him eat his own words (none)
      Apparently, General Casey's sober judgement is that the soldiers should start returning as early as next year.  Will Bush keep on just spitting the words out?

      Change the tone. Achieve harmony. Hear America sing.

      by Soundpolitic on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 09:11:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  No, Bush does not know (none)
    what is going on. I understand that you know this and that your question was rhetorical. Still, I like to say it - Bush doesn't have a clue.

    Knowing what's going on would mean he'd have to deal with un-pleasantries. Bush's immaturity keeps him forver a 13-year-old.

    -4.25, -6.87: Someday, after the forest fire of the Right has died we'll say "Whew, I'm happy that's over."

    by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:10:13 PM PST

    •  Toddler not preteen (none)
      And on the terrible 2's stage.

      I think we have just heard the sound of one hand clapping... And it lost by 403 x 3 on the House.

      by lawnorder on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:11:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I choose 13 (none)
        because of the male aggression that arises out of the increased testosterone that starts flowing at puberty. Bush never learned how to handle it and in some respects stayed an emotional toddler who throws temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way.

        -4.25, -6.87: Someday, after the forest fire of the Right has died we'll say "Whew, I'm happy that's over."

        by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:20:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You got a point (none)
          Toddlers are tantrum prone but sweet and harmless most of the time. Definitely not El Busho!

          I thought toddler because of the "mine, mine, mine" and "me first, me first, me first" I see in Bush.

          I think we have just heard the sound of one hand clapping... And it lost by 403 x 3 on the House.

          by lawnorder on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:35:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  sorry but ... (none)
          I was a pretty violent 5 year old once

          flunked "playground" until the 4th grade

          testosteron ain't got nothing to do with it

          Did I mention that my grandfather once concluded that I had "Bad Genes"

          violent and stupid don't go hand in hand

          I myself am a relativly voiolent person, I just ain't stupid about it

          •  You've got a good point but (none)
            that doesn't translate to a complete & total negation of testosterone as a contributor to the problem. Maybe in your case but I'll argue that in other cases it is very likely a factor.

            -4.25, -6.87: Someday, after the forest fire of the Right has died we'll say "Whew, I'm happy that's over."

            by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 06:18:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  headspinner (none)
    The drunk monkey saying the word 'sober'.

    heh

  •  A perfect fool (none)
    Armando, you have described our dear leader as succinctly as I have seen.

    God help all of us.

    •  You stole my thunder ... perfect fool.. (none)
      "What pretty words from a perfect fool" I read someway that he does not know half of the things he reads in public. The longer the text the more confused he becomes.
  •  Stand Up! (none)
    Maybe congress should pass a non-binding resolution that the Iraqi Army is now sufficiently stood up.  

    Transparency + Accountability = Honesty (that way we won't have to rely on trust.)

    by David in Burbank on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:14:20 PM PST

  •  The tale of Bush fan in Iraq (4.00)
    He wanted to throw flower petals to the troops in March 2003... He is getting closer and closer to throwing IEDs lately.

    Daily Kos: Iraq through the looking glass

    Hi friends - November 30, 2003
    *Today we went to our center, we were surprised, the center is clean, cute and will be ready to treat the patients. The center was neglected before, now it's better ...and better!

    October 18, 2004
    My brother's friend has been killed in AlAnbar governorate last week.. they killed his wife too, because they were `cooperating with the occupier'. In fact they were doctors and supplying the Iraqi National Guards with some necessary medical things.
    They've been beheaded also.
    I wonder when we can arrest one of those terrorists.. I think the enemy is stronger than we expect.

    Is that our fate? - April 30, 2005
    First of all, I am so sorry for this long absence, I can't explain everything now, but let's say I was trying to reorganize my life, or in a better way, begin a new life after realizing new facts or the same facts that I couldn't or didn't want to realize...

    I am writing now what I feel and what I am thinking of, and I'm sorry for this sudden change in my thoughts and enthusiasm but I think it is enough..
    I see everybody is dying ..losing friends..losing hope..and I would lose myself if I stayed there..
    We want to live...
    We want to build our lives..
    We want to build a future to our children..
    Will they leave us do that?
    And will others really help us?

    I think we have just heard the sound of one hand clapping... And it lost by 403 x 3 on the House.

    by lawnorder on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:15:57 PM PST

  •  Don't know if he is the worst president.... (none)
    in the history of the US...but certainly the worst in my lifetime, which only goes back to Eisenhower...but that includes Nixon (I'm not a crook).
    •  Even if you include Jefferson Davis ... (none)
      goerge bush is the worst president ever

      even if you consider the traitor from Mississippi as a "President"

      In case anybody wonders about my qualifications to comment on past presidents, can you do this from memory ???

      Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Addams, Jackson, Van Buren, Harrison, Tyler, Polk, Taylor, Filmore, Pierce, Buchannan, Lincoln, Johnson, Grant, Hayes, Garfield, Arthur, Cleveland, Harrison, Cleveland, McKinley, Roosevelt, Taft, Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, bush

      I can name all 42 of them in order from memory, and I'm prepared to discuss any one of them

      I think I'm qualified to judge their preformance

      any objections ???

    •  Bush makes Nixon (none)
      look like a saint!
  •  That the leader of the free world should be (none)
    such an arrogant, pompous, vacuous, clueless, imbecile.  But then again, he does have a direct line to God....
  •  Out Now. (none)
    As with Vietnam, those with a clue and those without a clue will continue to beat around the proverbial Bush, but all will prove unable, ultimately, to devise a sensible phased withdrawal plan.

    We still have many political machinations yet to go, but ultimately, the US has only two choices: unconditional withdrawal (i.e., "cut and run"), or wait until we evacuate with helicopters from the embassy rooftops.

  •  Which Iraqis is he referring to (none)
    As Iraqis stand up, we will stand down

    Because right now it is Iraqi v. Iraqi and we are in the middle of a religious based civil war.

    He must have meant the ones aligned with Iran who torture other Iraqis, not the ones supported by foreigners who blow other Iragis up.

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:23:09 PM PST

  •  Casey's plan (none)
    Sounds a lot like Murtha's plan, only a little slower. W seems to think he is still building up a baseball team for a handsome profit.

    "That story isn't worth the paper it's rotten on."--Dorothy Parker

    by martyc35 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:24:27 PM PST

  •  4th Worst in 31+ Months (none)
    Does anyone here think that Duncan Hunter gives a damn?  I certainly don't after seeing his charade last night.  

    I guess that there are maybe five Republicans (out of a couple hundred) in the entire House who seem to give a damn.  All of the Democrats do and that is to their credit. 100% support for our troops on the Democratic side and 2.5% on the Republican side.  

    How many more people need to lose their lives before these despicable Neo-Con people are driven from the corridors of power?

  •  Worst President Ever, (none)
    and the Iraq debacle is only part of it.

    But it's the bloodiest, stupidest part of it.

    Bush keeps giving the same flag-waving speech to the same ordered-to-applaud audiences. But, thanks to Murtha, this week anyway, fewer and fewer of his oft-cited "American people" are buying his line of bullshit.

    The Republicans want to cut YOUR Social Security benefits.

    by devtob on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:26:07 PM PST

  •  ..I continue to ask.. (none)
    ..conservatives - family, friend, whomever - Who are we training to defend whom against whom?  This simple question cannot be answered.  Members of the Iraqi "security forces" are ALSO members of various sects, tribes, extended families who have a multitude of differing agendas and motives.  We are the dictator de jour.  So, they are all kept very very loosely in line.  Who are we training to be the dictator de jour to follow, because the only way they were held together in the past was by a combination of Saddam's iron fist and a 'balance of power' among different groups - for lack of better terms.  Do they really expect for the new system to be a national police force or army that will be loyal to the state and its democratically elected leadership and be able to hold a country of tens of millions together - without us? Of ALL the possible scenarios you might imagine coming out of this mess, the one that is the most far fetched - amounting to little more than a punch line - is Bush's stated outcome.  Meanwhile, Rome Burns  
    •  Correct (none)
      BushCo can't even recognize the undercutting and failing of the democratic process in this country, so how the Hell can he identify democracy in action in Iraq? I watched his speech from Korea late last night, and I'd swear it was almost comical if the guy and his administration of deceit weren't so F'ing dangerous. It was another shining example of why I could never be a soldier. To sit through that charade knowing what I know about the fool/tool, well, I just couldn't do it in good conscience to the world and its creator.

      Can anyone tell me why my American flag was made in China?

      by Skid on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 08:30:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What a broken record. (none)
    Word-for-word, he is parroting almost exactly the same old stuff he was saying a few months ago.
  •  Disheartening, but not surprising (none)
    Bush telling the same whole old story, same old spin.

    The word "strategy" is defined as "the science or art of military command as applied to the overall planning and conduct of large-scale combat operations," or "a plan of action resulting from the practice of this science."

    "Our strategy can be summed up this way: As Iraqis stand up, we will stand down"  That is not a strategy at all.  How can we scientifically or objectively determine this has occurred?  When will the mission be complete exactly?

    "The second part of our strategy is a political strategy. Iraqis are moving forward in building a democracy. . . . and the United States of America will help them succeed."  Again, not a strategy, a hoped for dream.

    "The fifth element of our strategy in the war on terror is to deny the militants future recruits by replacing hatred and resentment with democracy and hope across the broader Middle East."  Again, not a strategy at all, but an amorphous dream and not even specific to Iraq.  

    Ladies and gentleman, may I suggest that one can only conclude from this that the Bush administration has no strategy at all, and plans on us staying forever?  That such a "plan" is a recipe for disaster in and of itself?  A call to prepare your sons and daughters for the draft?

    •  Strategy of the broken record (none)
      Your analisys is so correct, robo. I have often wondered at people who suggested that this president ever articulated anything.

      Strategy should have come from the president and
      his boss Darth Cheney. The commanders in the field are trying to carry out the orders of these clowns that have failed to tell the American people the real reason for our presence in Iraq. Oil

      The strategy now should be to get out asap! The strategy now should be to make this nation and the world less controlled by OPEC and energy future markerts. The strategy now should be to get another party elected to show the world that we, this country, denounce this regiem and want   to make America that shining light that, as this president shows, has dimmed considerably by his leadership (or lack thereof).

  •  Who decides? (4.00)
    I was listening to NPR this afternoon and they covered the current controversy. They talked to Paul Rykoff and some guy from a VFW post.

    The thing that struck me was that the VFW guy was implying that the soldiers in Iraq have the right to decide whether we leave or not and when. "They've made the sacrifices and they want to stay." And all the other crap about not wasting the lives that have already been wasted.

    I'm like WTF? Since when?

    Did we let the military decide that we had to pre-emptively invade Iraq? They're in charge now and they make the decisions?

    •  VFW guy tried worthless arguement. (none)
      The military is simply one of the tools used by the politicians in charge at the moment.

      A carpenter can use a hammer less and less as required, but the hammer can't decide to keep pounding nails past when the carpenter decides to put it back in the toolbox.

      -- In Your Face From Outer Space

      by mike101 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 05:10:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  In every speech (none)
      before military audiences, Bush appeals, explicitly and implicitly, to the idea that America has never lost a war, except for Vietnam, and won't lose a war on his watch.

      Unfortunately, many veterans have bought into the myth that we lost Vietnam because the troops were stabbed in the back by spineless politicians and the commie anti-war movement.

      Pro-war vets don't want to hear this, but that's the same jingoistic line that Hitler used to take over Germany.

      The Republicans want to cut YOUR Social Security benefits.

      by devtob on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 06:44:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually (none)
      let's have a secret ballot of the troops, and let the choice be between: Yes, Pull-out, or No, don't pull out. Because I know how the vote will go. Oh BTW, only actual troops in Iraq should be allowed to vote. Not Pentagon pencil pushers in air conditioned offices.
  •  "Constitution that guareentees (none)
    fundamental freedoms"

    • like you can say what you want as long as you agree with the corporate leader

    • like you can work for who you want as long as it is exxon, haliburton, wal-mart or bechtel

    • like you can have all the justice your wallet can afford

    • like you can free from competing with other businesses if you are one of the kleptocracy cronies

    • like you can free from being accountable if you are a crony

    • like you can free from being responsible if you are a crony

    • like you can free from paying for the infrastructure you use if you are a crony

    come on freedom !!

    rmm.

    Grassroots Organizing Should Be for The Community, By The Community - NOT for "Leaders" http://www.liemail.com/BambooGrassroots.html

    by rmdSeaBos on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:35:35 PM PST

    •  forgot some verbs, like (none)
      "you can be free"

      why can't I edit online?

      is it cuz I grew up with typewriters and if the info ain't on paper I can't edit?

      wtfo, I HATE paper.

      ugh.

      rmm.

      Grassroots Organizing Should Be for The Community, By The Community - NOT for "Leaders" http://www.liemail.com/BambooGrassroots.html

      by rmdSeaBos on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:41:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You forgot the most important part. (none)
    I'll fix it for you:

    It is the sense of the House of Representatives that [a] suicide bomber drove a car packed with explosives into a Shiite funeral tent on Saturday and blew it up among the mourners, killing at least 18 Iraqi civilians and wounding 18 others.

    There. Now it's approved for Republican use.

  •  The War for Commander Chickenhawk's Manhood (4.00)
    Telling slip:

    We will stay in the fight until we have achieved the brave -- the victory that our brave troops have fought for.

    Nothing brave about what this crazed Chickenhawk Administration is doing, hiding behind the flag, afraid even to DEBATE the shifty case for war and whining that critics are "against the troops". At least the chickenshit has gone from I, I, I to we, we, we -- a sign that he'll spread the responsibility now that the applause has died down.

    Since the First Moron doesn't mind using WWII for cheap patriotic cred, look at the difference between what Commander in Chief FDR accomplished, working with allies during WWII and what this prancing lunatic has accomplished in his War on Whatever. He can't even set a clear mission -- it keeps changing with the winds.

    How many days did FDR spend during WWII vacationing, fund raising, campaigning and photo-opping pet boondoggles, compared to what Commander Chickenhawk has logged? His administration can't even be bothered to engage a working coalition of peacekeepers to defuse this debacle.

    I've met soldiers and you, Chimpass, are not a soldier. Profiteering warmonger, yeah ...
    .

    Treason's Greetings to terrorist sympathizer and national disgrace Bill O'Reilly

    by Peanut on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:38:14 PM PST

  •  As long as the Democrats... (none)
    ...fail to call Bush on this "stand up the Iraqis" crap, we're stuck in Iraq for a long, long time. This bullshit is the same crap as the ARVN all over again. The Iraqi Army will never stand up sufficiently for the exact same reason the ARVN continually perplexed our military commanders in their inability to effectively face their comparatively underarmed, underfed communist counterparts. Quite simply, there is no supportive social base for the puppet government hiding behind the barricades of the green zone, just as there was no supportive social base for our puppets in South Vietnam. As long as this is the case, I don't see the situation changing, the only effective Iraqi fighting forces will be the Sunni resistance, the Kurdish peshmergas, and the various Shi'ite militias. While this is a great recipe for civil war, which is going on already, it is not going to lead to an effective Iraqi national army ever. This  is an insoluble problem. There are nationalist forces in Iraq, including within the Sunni resistance and (less so) in the Shi'ite militias (and not at all in the peshmergas), but these forces are not likely to throw their support behind a government that is widely seen as an American puppet. Without such support it's impossible to build an effective national army that will respond to that government. You can add people to the rolls, jump them through training hoops, and arm them as much as you want, but without loyalty to the project of a national government they will respond to conflict with loyalty to their individual militias or will simply melt away.  

    Why are they so sick and ridiculous?--C. Mingus

    by Rojo on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 04:45:40 PM PST

  •  For what it's worth (none)
    Bush is, of course, the perfect puppet president for the neocons to foist onto the social conservatives of this country.  And of course it is the social conservatives (a group primed for a fantasy-based existence) that gave Bush the appearance of some legitmacy (if not actual legitimacy).

    I believe the neocons have as their goal nothing less than the destruction of civil government and the privatization of everything - a neo-feudalism. I also believe that, thanks largely to a second Bush term, these people are within spitting distance of achieving their goal.  They won't give up without a fight and they'll keep dancing with the one that brung 'em: duping the rabid base.  It's the main thing that's gotten them this far.

    So don't expect them to start telling the truth and don't expect beating them to be easy.  They're just too close to walk away.  

    And all of this means that Democrats have got to be smarter and more effective than they've ever been.  This is now a question of whether freedom itself may perish from this earth.  Becasue if the neocons win this, with the sorts of technology and so forth available today, we may never again be able to rise up out of the muck they'll bury us in.  There is no tomorrow.  

    Sorry for the drama, but I decided not to censor my thoughts.  (I was also on the phone during most of this, so my apologies if it's a little incoherent.)

  •  No choice but to start withdrawing (none)
    Starting around the last time the brass serving in Iraq testified before Congress I've heard several military experts say that we have to start drawing down troops quite soon. Most comments dance around the details but General Barry R. McCaffrey said quite directly and clearly that there is no choice but to start withdrawing troops starting in the spring/summer of '06 because the present deployment is simply not sustainable and that's when the wheels start coming off. It would seem the Bushie brats are going to be slamming into the brick wall of reality shortly because they have broken our military ground forces into itty bitty pieces.

    This makes all the recent Republican posturing more than a little bizarre. They are going to be forced to further torture logic, reason and the truth to come up with justification for supporting the WH "cutting and running" in few months.

    To further complicate Republican's insanity the new double whammy suicide bombing strategy that came very close to sending a goodly part of the press corp to their collective rewards yesterday morning means our intrepid boy and girl reporters will be increasingly alarmed about the well being of their own sorry skins. It's surely not an experience likely to leave any of the working press covering Iraq in much of a mood for butt smooching of the stay forever gang.

    •  get out now (none)
         and lick our wounds
      Or get out later and lick bigger wounds.

      But the longer we wait----the more money will be
      poured into the pockets of the bushmob friends and co-conspirators. And cheney will get his cut.
      Repug congressmen and friendly demos will get their cut.

      No one looses! The public? We do not count. Let us stock up on cake while we have a chance.

  •  It's the bases (none)
    the 14 or so permanent bases they are building. This Administration is never going to leave Iraq.  They are going keep avoiding and talking around the subject, hoping that the situation calms down.  Otherwise their "Master Plan" of a permanent US presence (with access to the oil) will be ruined.
    •  permanent bases (4.00)
      you and I seem to be aware of the "permanent bases plan", but one sure in hell doesn't hear about it in the MSM.  I'm sure mainstream America, whatever that is, is as clueless as Armando so rightly calls our fearless leader about the grand scheme to keep an American military presence in Iraq forever to use as a basis for protecting "our oil".  The Middle East Arabs know this, hence an ingredient in their hatred of us.  All the talk of our getting out of Iraq is pure poppycock.  We're there to stay baby.
      •  when they say (none)
        it's not about the oil...it's about the oil.
      •  Yep (none)
        We certainly aren't there for "humanitarian" reasons, or because we care about the Iraqis. It's all because they were planning on inserting their puppet-pal Chalabi in as the new Iraqi leader, who would then allow us bring in the Halliburtons to take out the oil.  It's really not a mystery.
      •  They should read Thomas PM Barnett (none)
        He explains the new strategy.
      •  True, so true (none)
        I thought I had heard a Dem last night during the "debate" make a statement about why the government/Repubs won't respond to the claims of permanent military bases being built in Iraq. Can't remember who it was though. The subject would seem to any person of reasonable judgement and rationale to be CRITICAL to the conversation of what we hope to accomplish in Iraq and when the troops could come home, yet it never is touched by the MSM. Duplicity at its finest.

        Can anyone tell me why my American flag was made in China?

        by Skid on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 08:51:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  My thoughts as I read Armando's article (none)
    Fundamental freedoms
         As long as you're not a woman.

    Lasting democracy
         Got a crystal ball W?

    Amazing progress
         Please define that one for me, OK?

    In two and a half years...
         They now have unreliable water and electricity, civil unrest (if you'd like to call it that) has exploded, terrorist ranks have increased, tens of thousands of civilians have died, women are afraid to walk outside of their homes, SHALL I CONTINUE?

    Replacing hatred and resentment with democracy
         After what you have done, you are dreaming, W.  The radicals do not need to stir very vigorously; you are doing it for them.

    So long as I'm the Commander in Chief
         I'm counting down.  I think we're at day 1157.

    Sober judgement
         Guess he doesn't think that General Casey is sober.  Or maybe Laura, Barbara, Karen or Condi hasn't told him about Casey yet.

  •  I was going to comment (none)
    That since everything is so peachy keen over in Iraq, maybe it's time we should withdraw.  Then I read the whole speech.  Some outrageous stuff in there even for Bush


    Over the past few decades, radicals have specifically targeted Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Jordan for potential takeovers. And for a time, they achieved their goal in Afghanistan, until they came face to face with the men and women of the United States military.

    In Afghanistan, we put the terrorists on the run, and now they've set their sights on another country -- they're trying to turn Iraq into what Afghanistan was under the Taliban, a terrorist sanctuary from which they can plan and launch attacks against our people. The terrorists regard Iraq as the central front in their war against humanity. And we must recognize Iraq as the central front in our war against the terrorists.

    Good for us, we got them on the run and we provided them with a new target.  Good strategery there Mr. President.  I guess we can thank you for making Iraq a "central front in our war against the terrorists".  If it wasn't for your leadership, where would those terrorists go?

    I include the next because it sounds like a plot out of a James Bond movie.  I wonder what Bush has been reading lately.

    These militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow moderate governments in the region and establish a radical Islamic empire that reaches from Spain to Indonesia. If they're not stopped, the terrorists will be able to advance their agenda to develop weapons of mass destruction, to destroy Israel, to intimidate Europe, and to break our will and blackmail our government into isolation. I'm going to make you this commitment: This is not going to happen on my watch.

    Some might be tempted to dismiss the terrorist goals as fanatical or extreme. They are fanatical and extreme, but we cannot afford to dismiss them. Evil men obsessed with ambition and unburdened by conscience must be taken very seriously. Against such an enemy, there's only one effective response: We will never back down, and we will never give in, and we'll never accept anything less than complete victory.

    The Republicans have a fundamental problem with telling the truth - Howard Dean.

    by NYC Sophia on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 05:08:53 PM PST

    •  Afghanistan is going bad too (none)
      more soldiers died in Afghanistan this year than died last year in Afghanistan

      more dead soldies last year than the year before

      and the Taliban is openly organizing again

      hey george, wanna explain how that qualifies as progress ???

      •  soldiers do not count (none)
                They are disposable items. Remember that the mob floated the idea of burning their bodies in the desert? That's why they included chemical and biological weapons in the WMD catagory. To plant the notion that the troops would be too contaminated to handle.

        That did not go over well. So they went to plan B----bring them back under cover of dark and no greeting allowed in Dover.

  •  OMG he told the truth?!?!! (none)
    If the Middle East is left to grow in bitterness, if countries remain in misery while radicals stir the resentments of millions, then that part of the world will be a source of endless conflict and mounting danger.

    He's right, too bad he doesn't get it that our initial and continuing presence fuels the resentment.


    One of our top commanders in Iraq, Major General William Webster, says that setting a deadline for our withdrawal from Iraq would be, "a recipe for disaster." General Webster is right.

    You know what, from a political standpoint this is wonderful--from an emotional/human standpoint this is terrible.
    *Bush subornly remains in Iraq
    *the Republican party members try to distance themselves from Bush,
    *they are unsuccessful,
    *they loose the House or Senate,
    *Bush gets impeached.

    Why doesn't Bush understand how this will play out if he keeps doing what he's doing?! I think deep down he really does not care about the Republican Party he only cares about being bigger and stronger than his father. Pathetic.

    Its not easy being a Floridian.

    by lawstudent922 on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 05:14:08 PM PST

  •  They dont believe it either (none)
    It is giving Bush way more credit than he deserves if you think he believes his own sloganeering on Iraq. They know the shithole they are in.

    All this posturing is just plain propaganda to prevent the loss of the last shreds of their credibility. They don't have a plan and know that there is no magic bullet.

    Withdrawal is a fait accompli. They are going to have to spin it as victory and play it to hold on to their majority in Nov 2006.

    I hope the Dems realize this and beat them at the spin this time and ride the disgust of the American public. I am heartened that some of the Dems who voted to authorize Bush to fuck up are now getting front of the tsunami. Folks like Edwards. And now Murtha leading the assault.

    If the Dems can be unified around the point that we have to withdraw because Bush has FUBARed Iraq. There is no reason why our troops have to die any longer for a war based on lies and deception. After Katrina we have absolute confirmation that not only is this the most incompetent administration but also the most mendacious and untrustworthy. If you want get out of the shithole  that we are in better elect Dems.

    •  better elect dems (none)
                    better than the ones we got.

      Which may be just a dream, this bunch has no intention of giving up power! The demos have to shut down the power grab everywhere--including the SCOTUS

  •  I posted this (none)
    a little while ago. Not only has he always been viewed as clueless, he demonstrated a distinct laziness.

    Take a look here

    Crawford TX has the right to have their village idiot returned.

    by hormel26c on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 05:29:20 PM PST

  •  Woodrow Wilson was a worse president (none)
    Woodrow Wilson was a worse president. Reasons why:

    *Joined WWI, after being elected on a platform to stay out of the war.

    *Created an educational system designed to train all children to be factory workers, which remains in place to this day.

    *His policy of cheap loans for farmers arguably caused the great depression.

    *Used his position as president to promote the racist film A Birth of a Nation.

    *Legalized segregation in government.

    *Sedition and Espionage acts.

    *Started wars with Mexico, Haiti, Cuba, and Panama.

    *Supported the Whites in the Russian civil war.

    *Suffered a stroke and wouldn't leave his room so that no one would know and he didn't have to step down, leaving the country without a president for the last year of his term.

    *Failed to get 14 points passed.

    *Went to Johns Hopkins.

    •  Woodrow Wilson also loved 'Birth of a Nation' .... (none)
      called it writing history with lighting
    •  worse president--? (none)
        bush by far
      • went to war after being 'selected' after a campaign of "compassion and humility"
      • created a failed 'no child left behind' ed system
      *created cheap labor and offshore labor
      *uses his position to devide and dis-unite
      * allows acts of treason to go on--outing CIA agent. Prevents a full andcomplete investigation of 911
      *started coups in Haiti and other So Am countries
      • supports bigotry
      • has 'working?' vacations and 'vacations' at work
      with regularity. Won't step down even with overwhelmed by the 'hard work' of the job
      *Failed to provide a job making program, while insisting that give away to corporations and tax reductions are a stimulous
      *went to Yale--probably never attended class
      Oh, but there's more. But why bother,  bush won
  •  Princess Bride redux (none)
    This is what I tell my Republican voting acquaintances:

    You've just made one of the all-time classic blunders, the most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this:

    Never vote for a Republican when truth is on the line!

    Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-

    Plop.

  •  What do you expect? (none)
    Of course Iraq was struck by a suicide bomber today. Murtha has emboldened the terrorists! /wingnut

    When we talk about war, we're really talking about peace. George W. Bush

    by Frederick on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 06:20:03 PM PST

  •  Turning the corner for the 8th time (none)
    Oh wait.

    That would mean.

    Aw, just forget I said anything....

    I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

    by Volvo Liberal on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 06:37:40 PM PST

  •  Fine time to start listeneing to military leaders (none)
    What about the military commanders who said more troops were needed? What about the military commanders who said better equipment was needed? How about Major General Swannack who said we were strategically losing the war? How about Colin Powell who warned that we would own the problems of a post-Saddam Iraq? How about a senior general at the Pentagon who warned that the United States is on the road to defeat. "It is doubtful we can go on much longer like this," he said. "The American people may not stand for it -- and they should not."

    Had Bush really listened to the military, we would not be embroiled in this conflict. The military have always advocated overwhelming force, clear objectives, and an exit strategy. Even under those curcumstances this war would not be justified. The fact that none of that advice was followed shows just how ignorant and arrogant this administration is. Once again Bush demonstrates his complete incompetence, hypocrisy, and utter contempt for the American public.

  •  Bush's sixth point--in my dreams (none)
    "It's not that they "hate freedom". It's because we and Britain used the CIA to overthrow the elected leader of Iran, who promised to nationalize the oil. Then we installed the punk Shah to do our bidding so we could keep the oil flowing. Later, Khomeni's rise was a reaction to WHAT WE DID FIRST."

    As the President of the United States I apologize for these transgressions.

    Go in peace, Iran, Iraq, and all Towelheadia, and here, take the fucking oil, we're going full-on hydrogen, wind, and solar. And conservation. I mean, Republicans are CONSERVATIVES, aren't we?

    I'll veto any vote on fuel economy that doesn't require CAFE standards of 42 miles per gallon.

    Taxes for homeowners will be double of those with solar or stringent conservation practises.

    Lastly, I'm standing down. I've come to realize that I'm just not up to the demands of my office. Truth is, I've started therapy, and have come to realize that my presidential ambitions have an Oedipal issue. And since I'm STUPID, and nowhere close to my father's intellect, well, I guess I've been an EGOTISTICAL ASSHOLE, completely lacking any compassion toward the American people, and only consumed by my personal ambition, and only the front man for truly evil men like Cheney and Rove.  

    See this target on my shirt? Please, if you can get a clear shot, do me. I'm a miserable piece of shit."  

    Ah, Thanksgiving-- I love the smell of impeachment baking in the oven.

    by omfreebogart on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 07:20:40 PM PST

  •  Is it just Murtha? (none)
    I don't know how much play this gets in other parts of the country, but here in D.C., amongst Pentagon circles, it's recognized that Murtha is speaking not only for himself. This is what was so shocking about his speech. He doesn't speak for the Democrats, but he does speak for the Generals at the Pentagon. If he is advocating withdrawal, that means his guys at the Pentagon have told him the mess in Iraq is unfixable, unwinnable, unmanageable, and needs to end.

    This explains the ferocity and desperation of the attack against Murtha. It's not just Murtha they are going after, but the Pentagon. They are desperate to keep those guys in line, any way they can.

     

  •  Finally, a measurable 'mission'! (none)
    <quote>Our strategy can be summed up this way: As Iraqis stand up, we will stand down, and when our commanders on the ground tell me that Iraqi forces can defend their freedom, our troops will come home with the honor they have earned.</quote>

    Now, let's show why this is ludicrous (hint: just how big is the Iraqi army these days?)

  •  more info on the war in Iraq (none)
    For a run down on all the news from Iraq, plus commentary and comments, go see

    Today In Iraq

  •  fight the war you have not the one you risk (none)
    Remember how we got into Iraq. The PNAC wants us to be at war. Being the strongest guy on the block, they want to take advantage and dominate the Globe, God being on our side and all. So when we move out of Iraq they will feel compelled to get us into another war. Also their whole criminal 9/11 spiel would have been for nothing.

    Putting myself in the shoes of a PNAC man I could consider retreating from Iraq fast, virtually guarantying instability and regional wars in the middle east. This would be a real reason to go into the middle east and massively. A salivating prospective...from PNACs point of view.

    Maybe it is better to fight the war you have than the war you risk.

  •  We The People (none)
    elected this `worst' President, not once, but twice. Yes, I know all the arguments, the first was a selection, the second was a steal. It is irrelevant because we didn't have our shit together enough to stop it.  While hurling invectives at this moron in power today start seriously considering what kind of a world you want yourselves for your children. Has the USA grown too big and powerful? President hold too much power?  start re-building our own future. The situation in Iraq will work itself through one way or another and as always in history the results will be neither all bad nor all good. Our responsibility is to determine what kind of United States of America we wish to represent and then elect representatives who reflect those values. Stop blindly worshipping at the altar of celebrity, stop believing everything you are told, demand accountability from everyone in the game of communicating, media, politicoes and above all whichever administration holds the reins of our destiny in their hands. Be active, not re-active.
  •  Bush nails it! (none)
    From his speech:

    Some might be tempted to dismiss the terrorist neocon goals as fanatical or extreme. They are fanatical and extreme, but we cannot afford to dismiss them. Evil men obsessed with ambition and unburdened by conscience must be taken very seriously. Against such an enemy, there's only one effective response: We will never back down, and we will never give in, and we'll never accept anything less than complete victory.

    Just make that one little change, and you can see how right he is.

    A liberal is a man so broadminded he wouldn't take his own side in an argument........Robert Frost

    by mjshep on Sun Nov 20, 2005 at 09:20:38 AM PST

  •  Who is going to win a year from now? (none)
    Democrats are winning the political arguement today however a year from now we will be looking at a completely different picture.  In political times a month seems like a decade can you imagine what a year will seem like?  There is no doubt in anyone's mind that 2006 you will see massive troop pullouts out of Iraq. This will make the American public happy and proud of their troops.  I believe the timing (dates) that were put together that included the election for a transitional government, to the ratification of a constitution, to the election of a free governemtn will be used as a political fodder by the Republicans.   As long as no civil war breaks out the Republicans will be in an ideal position to capatlize on the timing.  

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