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These photographs just recently surfaced...
 

I was given them by an "anonymous source" in the Ohio Department of State.  Read on...

   
Here's a nice voter...

Wait!  She's actually an Ohio election worker!
She's not voting, she's tampering with the ballots!

And what's she doing with that ballot box now!

She's breaking into it!

Oh no!  And now she and her Republican cronies are dumping them out!  Hey, stop it!


And now what are they doing?  Look!

Oh no!  They just carried them out of the election site, to an "undisclosed location".  Oh no, look, now Kenneth Blackwell is lighting a match!

He's setting the ballots on fire!

They even brought in the Dayton Fire Department to do a "controlled burn".

Wow, they couldn't even break for lunch!  They're cooking hot dogs in the fire of the illegally destroyed ballots!

And now they're pouring acid on the ashes!

To destroy the evidence!

And dumping the remains...

...into the ocean...

...to be carried away forever by the waves.

We can't let them get away with it!

So Armando, what do you have to say to that evidence, smart guy?


Originally posted to yellowdoggie on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 03:24 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  ROTFLMAO! (4.00)

    Oh when the frogs. . Come marching in. . Oh when the FROGS COME MARCH-ING IN!

    by pontificator on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 06:28:53 PM PST

  •  are we (4.00)
    going to get to see mean armando again?
    •  Maybe not here but... (none)
      He was super mean yesterday, often to good-intended posters who didn't deserve it.
      •  Interesting (none)
        I saw that diary yesterday, and I've got to be honest, I don't think Armando was mean. At all. I even looked at the exchange at the link you provide above, and again, it isn't mean and I don't think there was anything about the exchange that was "undeserving."

        My comments above were a joke, a reference to everyone who says Armando is mean.

        I'm sure lots of people will disagree with me on this, but I just don't find Armando to be either mean or disagreeable. Armando speaks his mind, rather pointedly and with some added profanity, but he's hardly unreasonable.

        Armando is argumentative, for sure, and he doesn't mince words. If you don't like it, just don't intereact with him.

        •  Perhaps, but... (none)
          In my experience, when someone incorrectly understands something and then insults you because you understand it correctly (and are trying to clarify things), the term "mean" comes to mind.  

          It's great to have respect for "speaking one's mind" and "not mincing words" but taking that to an extreme easily becomes a gateway for bullheaded callousness.  Look at George Bush, for instance.  

          •  Agreed (none)
            But I'm not sure this falls into that category.

            From an objective observer's point of view, the two of you were having a difference of opinion. I would hardly characterize it as "one person understanding and the other not understanding."

            For what it's worth, I know from personal experience that it can be frustrating to have a difference of opinion with Armando. He's likely to see his opinion as fact, I tend to be the same way. That said, although Armando's words can be harsh, I don't get the sense that the feeling behind the words are as harsh or as personal as most people take them. I'd bet money that Armando certainly never intends to be mean (well, save certain people, that is. But he's pretty clear about who those people are).

            •  Thanks for writing back... (none)
              I realize this runs the risk of pettiness, but to describe our exchange as a "difference of opinion" is probably a more generous than honest. I don't blame you if you haven't had the time/inclination to scrutinize that dialogue in great depth, but he repeatedly clung to an interpretation of a woman's post that directly contradicted her thesis, which she explicitly stated.  

              To draw an analogy, if I say, "it's my opinion that blue is a wonderful color," and then someone wonders aloud, "why does BPK think blue is such a terrible color?"   You respond, "actually he said it was wonderful."  And he responds, "No.  You're wrong.  Do YOU get it?" You might feel a bit wrongfully attacked.

              But enough of my defending that previous exchange.  Your comments are reasonable to me, and yes, I can empathize with the idea of writing something in a very focused firm manner (without malice) but having it be read as harboring some sort of ill-will towards another poster.  I can see how this might be a fitting depiction of Armando's persona. I will keep your words in mind.  

              •  Good (none)
                I can understand your frustration from the exchange with Armando. And normally I wouldn't spend my time defending someone I don't know. And I don't know Armando at all. But I just don't think he's as intentionally mean as people make him out to be.

                Glad you were willing to consider it. Have a good evening.

  •  pitchforks and torches (4.00)
    I'm convinced. Let's go gettem.

    Treason's Greetings from Karl Rove and Scooter Libby: Merry Fitzmas and Happy New Smear

    by seesdifferent on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 06:29:41 PM PST

  •  Wait a second (4.00)
    this is not evidence at all!  Anyone can change a photograph with photoshop these days.  I'm going to need sound, video and DNA evidence.
  •   DAMN !!! (4.00)
    i diddent know the dkos crew was that rough, were meaner than the crips & the bloods & the raiders combined . i knew these can be mean streets , but.....
  •  Sadly, (3.10)
    this is one of the more convincing diaries I've seen on this subject.

    Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

    by LarryInNYC on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 06:45:03 PM PST

  •  What went wrong in Ohio (4.00)
    It's impossible to read the Conyers report on what went wrong in Ohio without having at the  very least serious doubts about the voting: the only way to be certin in 2006 and 2008 is to have re-countable, verifiable paper ballots. Anything else is giving the finger  to democracy.
    •  No question (4.00)
      Actually the election FRAUD is no laughing matter,, without a real election we no longer have a democracy in this country.
      There is ZERO doubt that republicans have LIED cheated, Gerrymandered, and defrauded the voting system there is far too much evidence that shows this.

      http://sourcecode.freespeech.org/...

      http://sourcecode.freespeech.org/...

      http://www.truthout.org/...

      http://www.internetvetsfortruth.org/...

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/...

      Dubya stole BOTH elections plain & simple.
      This technically should be the biggest story in history for the media and there is absolutely zero said.

    •  And that's really what it's all about. (4.00)
      We do not need irrefutable proof that the election was stolen to justify a re-count.  What we need is enough evidence to show that the election results were unreliable.  

      For that purpose, I believe Conyers' report is more than sufficient.

      When we're talking about our democracy, ANY evidence of tampering should signal a re-count or re-election.  This is AMERICA, not a high school student council election.

      If, upon investigation, there is evidence of vote tampering the people involved should be in jail.

      •  There is no such thing as a re-election (none)
        Once the results are certified that is it. The constitution makes no mention of re-election and I know of no federal law, nor Ohio state law that proscribes such a thing. That would take a constitutional amendment to acheive. Try clearing that with 38 states - won't happen.

        You do raise an important point. Tampering with votes is illegal and is prosecuted in this country and in the state of Ohio. If there were evidence of it I am sure a county prosecutor would have filed charges by now. But that hasn't happened.

  •  From blackboxvoting.org: (4.00)
    11-30-05: Nope, the hack test won't be today
    What's going on with California Secretary of State Bruce McPherson?

    • He asks Black Box Voting to do a test, but tells the press he's asked Finnish security expert Harri Hursti to do it, before he formally invites Hursti or obtains any agreement from Hursti to do the test;

    • He gives Black Box Voting a Nov. 30 deadline, then tells the press he has no idea where the Nov. 30 date came from.

    • He asks Black Box Voting to confirm they intend to do the test, they confirm. BBV never hears from the sec. state's office again.

    • The participants in the test learn by reading in the newspaper...

    11-28-05: Latest on California hack situation
    California protocols sent to Black Box Voting when they invited us to do the test Nov. 30:

    • The media cannot attend
    • The public cannot attend
    • The number of people we can bring is so small that we cannot bring our attorney or a court reporter
    • We cannot videotape, record, or keep explicit notes on it
    • We cannot retain our own work product
    • We cannot tell anyone what happened in the test

    The citizens of California deserve better than this...

  •  This was a silly diary (4.00)
    I guess ignorance is bliss for some...
  •  Ha ha, but.... (4.00)
    ... I hope this diary isn't just one of ours making fun of those who truly believe (and seem to have good evidence of) that the Ohio election was stolen.  The anecdotal evidence, coupled with reports by the GAO, "trioed" with the others who have done good work in covering this grand-scale disenfranchisement merits some respect.  

    I mean, look at all the crap these guys have done.  It is absolutely not outside the realm of possibility that they stole the election.  Get real.

    •  hear hear... (none)
      ...and now North Carolina is breaking their own NEW LAW allowing Diebold to proceed with their covert code without disclosing their code as per the NEW LAW....

      if the system is rigged, how can you catch the crooks?

      we lost our democracy around 1937 or so... when the Holy Inquisitors gained power and instituted the Holy Drug War.

      probably ended before that ...if it ever even existed...

  •  Fuck you asshole! (3.30)
    As a black man this shit is insulting! Twice now, TWICE blacks have had their civil rights stolen from them and this is the response?!

    FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    •  hold up (3.37)
      I believe every member of this community takes the voter suppression that went on in the 2004 election very, very seriously.

      It was inexcusable, and it was racist.

      This diary is about fraud, and not suppression, and I think there's a big distinction to be made.

      Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

      by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:11:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now you're telling Blacks how to feel? (1.66)
        You are actually telling an African-American what is an appropriate response and what is an inappropriate response regarding having voting rights denied, huh?
        •  Nope (4.00)
          Just pointing out that the community shares the outrage on voter suppression.

          Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

          by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:41:16 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yea (none)
            That's what I thought you meant.... was pretty clear really....

            "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

            by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:42:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Outrage you show insulting those who raise topic (none)
            No thread with the word "election" in it gets by without AnnArborBlue putting his two cents into the discussion insulting people on the thread.

            So you show your outrage against voter suppression by insulting those who try to correct the practice? RIIIIIIIGHT...

            •  who did I insult? (none)
              I made no personal attacks in my comment, and I acknowledged the racism and grave seriousness of the blatant GOP efforts at vote suppression.

              Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

              by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:48:58 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  AAB makes regular personal attacks on vote posts (none)
                No election thread of any kind goes by without AAB going on that thread attacking people who post on the thread.

                Now you're telling an African American what is an appropriate emotional response to a thread that makes big fun of the whole voting irregularities issue.

                How dare you! Have you forgotten the whole freakin' history of the civil rights movement in America?

                •  I'd really like you to show (none)
                  where I dictated what emotional response someone should have.

                  Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

                  by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:57:58 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "hold up" (none)
                    AAB: "hold up...This diary is about fraud, and not suppression, and I think there's a big distinction to be made."
                  •  read the thread: (none)
                    yellowdog: "What a joke vote theft is" (paraphrased)

                    SpecialEFX: "As a black man, this shit is insulting."

                    AAB: "Hold up"

                    Don't get it?  Then I can't help you any more than that.

                     

                    Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                    by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:09:50 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  sigh (none)
                      we're reading this much into "hold up"?

                      I meant "hold up" as in, "I think you might be getting insulted by something that the diarist isn't necessarily trying to mock". i.e., voter suppression, versus voter fraud.

                      Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

                      by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:12:37 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  ie (none)
                        "This is how you should feel."

                        Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                        by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:14:56 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  You think you can determine what insults Blacks? (none)
                        Here's a tip:

                        Stop.

                        Just freakin' stop.

                        Apologize to the guy.

                        Drop it.

                        •  I hate to get into this, (4.00)
                          but aren't you effectively doing the same thing? You are assuming that based on one persons post that all blacks feel the same. You are, through what I no doubt believe you find to be the good fight, assuming to know what I find insulting.

                          Well, I'm black and I don't think what AAB said was meant to insult me. But if you can convince me otherwise, I'm open. Based on what's been written here, I honestly don't think that you can.

                          •  Thanks for stepping in (none)
                            And I highly suspect that Bad Santa is a troll trying to race-bait a flame-war.

                            Just check his comments on this thread.  He's done so several times.

                            Also, he is completely lying about AAB and he just seems to be running a relentless smear against him.

                            I marked several of his comments Unproductive where he smears AAB, or where he is trying to bait a flame-war.

                            In God we trust. All others must pay cash.

                            by yet another liberal on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:58:31 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I've got my own (none)
                            feelings on the both of them which are not related to this thread (being a serial lurker has its advantages). However, I do believe that Bad Santa is trying to bait AAB, or anyone that defends him, into a flame war.

                            I am reluctant to rate their comments either way, yet I find it hilarious that a white person (I'm assuming) has the gall to tell another white person that they are being insensitive to the black struggle. Actually , I laugh ha, ha.

                            Personally, and I'm not sure how this will be received and don't much care, I am so fucking sick of white guilt. There are absolute instances of prejudice and what happened, and  Ohio is a glaring example. How-fucking-ever, I know that in this community, not taking into account trolls, there is no reason to be overly-defensive.

                            Honestly, and I hate that it is all coming out in one post, I beg of y'all to get over yourselves. Come to my defense when it is most needed. Don't you think that with my history of being judged I can differentiate between what is meant to be humorous and what is ignorant racism? And, after taking that into account am I so fucking incapable of defending myself that I need your help? Pul-fucking-eze! If you can't tell the difference, or at least allow that I know the difference, what exactly, sets you apart from the white people who thought of us as children who needed to be guided by your hand?

                          •  And, apparently (none)
                            I love commas. Whether they are necessary, or not, I am officially on record, as, loving, them.
                          •  I was a white guy in dorms at an HBC (none)
                            I was one of 4 white guys in the residence hall system of a Historically Black College. I don't  "know" what African-Americans feel when incidents happen. I don't claim to. However, I made a great number of lifelong friendships there, and have a fair amount of experience I can share with other whites about having respect for the feelings of African-Americans.... and I can communicate that knowledge and experience back in language white people understand.

                            Unfortunately, there are some pretty big communication gaps between the two communities.

                          •  And good on ya. (none)
                            Please don't mistake having black friends and being very down with them as, well, anything more than that. I've led a HNL, historically negro life, (can't use the word I want to for fear of people fainting or giving me zeros). Still, and though I appreciate your valiant attempts, I don't need you to translate for me. I'm completely fucking capable of conveying my thoughts to the fine tuned ear of your community.

                            In fact, the more I think about what you've written, the more disgusted and offended I am. I'm sure that was not your goal, but that is how I feel. Maybe you can take my words, put them in the white-o-matic, and tell your friends and family what I REALLY meant.

                          •  Apologies are basic social gestures (none)
                            You walk through a mall during Christmas and you're gonna apologize for bumping into people 20 times before you get to the store you are going to shop at. It's a basic social courtesy people give strangers  on the sidewalk for the least little inconvenience caused.

                            Why can't white people apologize as easily for potentially offending someone from another culture as easily as they do for bumping into someone at the mall? I can tell you that white people do not apologize quickly and simply for slighting those from other cultures. Matter of fact, as many will as won't will get terribly defensive and challenge the minority member's right to feel aggrieved... as AAB has done here. Have you ever heard someone challenge the right of some stranger in a mall to feel aggrieved when they were bumped into, their foot was stepped, etc? Of course not.

                            And how is a member of another culture going to feel when they have their right to feel offended challenged? They are going to feel like their feelings are not even worthy of an empty social gesture... and THAT turns the situation into an incident. There are very few who will not note in the back of their head the feeling of "not being worthy of an empty social gesture."

                            This is less about racism than is is about social ettiquette. The subject of race is a real bad time to toss one's social graces out of the window. We apologize so easily for so many minor inconveniences. Apologizies are so easily given. Just apologize. Apologizing in the situation isn't saying you are somehow racist. It's just an indication that that you have respect someone else, and consider their feelings important.

                          •  Quit it. (none)
                            Just stop. I am not a member of some other wacky, crazy culture. I'm a product of the Good Ole US of A as much as you are. I am black and I am American. I am as socially adapted as you are. I am as much African as you are European. Miss me with the white guilt thing, because I'm not having it.
                      •  plus (none)
                        who are you to interpret the diarist's intent to someone who's been deeply offended by this cavalier (and badly executed) attack against those who believe they have been disenfranchised?  

                        Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                        by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:19:40 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  well (none)
                          the diarist himself/herself has now said that they did not intend this diary to mock voter suppression.

                          Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

                          by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:21:24 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I can't tell you how many times (none)
                            I've insulted people without meaning to.  Most often, I see where I blew it, and I have to apologize.  The fact that several of us saw the same thing in your response to SpecialEFX indicates that you need to check your shit out.

                            Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                            by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:29:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Stop it. (none)
                            Just freakin' stop it.

                            Apologize to the guy.

                            There's one of two ways this is going to end. A huge freakin' flame war about race and white people "not getting it"... where you end up apologizing to the guy at the end of the mess anyway... or apologizing now.

                            Just stop it and apologize to the guy.

                  •  hold up (none)

                    "Free nations listen to the hopes and aspirations of their people. Free nations are peaceful nations." George Dubya Dumbass, Nov 30, 2005

                    by paraphrase on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:15:57 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Regardless of past actions (none)
                  on the part of AAB, there is really nothing offensive here, and to be honest I find all your seemingly baseless accusations to be somewhat offensive.

                  "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                  by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:01:53 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Don't tell me what is offensive (none)
                    If I'm offended, it's offensive.  Get a dicitonary.

                    Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                    by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:31:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Sure, (none)
                      and O'Reilly probably genuinely thinks that his imaginarly "war on christmas" is real and offensive, but that doesn't mean it's actaully happening. The point is that you should really offer some stronger proof before coming out with this kind of stuff.

                      Because, yea, you are entiteled to your opinion, and to be offended by whatever you want to be. But it's just wrong to be accussing people baselessly, and you guys are attacking AAB pretty visciously for comments that are pretty mild.

                      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:38:17 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  to put it more simply (4.00)
                      If I'm offended, it's offensive

                      If you're offended, it's offensive to YOU. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's offensive for the rest of the world, for the rest of the Kos community, for the rest of the black community, or for anyone else. It may be, but the fact that you feel that way is hardly proof of it.

                      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:39:51 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

              •  are you a boy or a girl? (none)
                Sorry, I had to ask, considering I assumed you were female and bad santa assumed you were male. :^)

                It is easier to stay out than get out. -Mark Twain

                by Bundy on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:57:41 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm a guy (none)
                  "Ann Arbor" is the city in Michigan where the University of Michigan is located.

                  Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

                  by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:58:31 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm a guy too (none)
                    in case you were wondering. Sometimes (most of the time) it's hard to tell on here. I hope you took no offense. I know about Ann Arbor, the city. I thought it might have been a play on words, though.

                    It is easier to stay out than get out. -Mark Twain

                    by Bundy on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:08:56 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  You insulted me... (4.00)
                ...by minimizing and marginalizing people who question a gravely flawed system that invites fraud, provides no way to verify whether fraud is being committed and refuses to be fixed or made more trustworthy.

                If you look at the widespread voter suppression (which you acknowledge) and the deeply suspect system of tallying ballots (with no oversight and no audit trail,) and read the latest GAO reports on the subject it should not be difficult to see a need to seek and gather evidence of possible voter fraud. Evidence exposed would go a long way in proving the need for election overhaul.

                Some folks at KOS are not willing to distinguish between the lack of any real evidence and their own refusal to seek evidence on these seemingly arbitrarily chosen taboo subjects. Out-of-hand dismissals of any discussion of these topics, common on KOS, and the type of "humor" in this diary--apparently intended to insult and belittle people for caring about such topics is indeed offensive.

                Like the lottery which one cannot win if one does not play, evidence will not present itself unless it is sought. Why slam the door in the faces of those who see this as an important issue with sarcastic, taunting "humorous" diaries?

              •  well (3.00)
                I made no personal attacks in my comment, and I acknowledged the racism and grave seriousness of the blatant GOP efforts at vote suppression.

                I recently learned that this doesn't matter anymore.

                Nobody care if you didn't attack anyone personally, they will be more than happy to attack you personally regardless. Doesn't matter if you ask them nicely to stop, they'll keep at it.

                Nobody care if you acknowledge the very concerns they're raising. They aren't interested in you respecting their opinion, they aren't interested in having a discussion. They just want to flame you.

                I'm in the process of reconsidering how/if I respond to people here at Kos, because frankly it's just getting rediculous.

                "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:05:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  With all due respect: (none)
                  Don't be so melodramatic.  You're arguing with what, five people here?  Hardly seems representative of the community at large.

                  Furthermore, though I am certainly guilty of it too, you seem extra-extra-invested in making sure you get the last word with everyone who sees differently on this issue.  I don't exactly agree with what the others are saying either, but I also see both sides of this issue, and I'm fairly certain that nobody's going to budge here.  It's time for a break, as they say--now, who will "be the bigger person?"

                  Just MHO.

            •  What are you talking about? (none)
              I know nothing about AAB's past conduct, but he/she sure isn't insulting anyone here....

              "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

              by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:49:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I've watched AAB in action (none)
                AAB patrols every election thread anyone posts. Post after post after post attacking people trying to correct the voting irregularities problems. All the standard charges. Crazy conspiracy theories, etc.
                •  I can't agree or disagree with that (none)
                  but based on what AAB has posted here, you seem to just be holding a grudge, or otherwise going on some strange personal attack. Neither is cool. If ABB has said horrible terrible things in the past, go down-rate him there, but not here where nothing offensive has been said.

                  "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                  by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:03:06 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Past History + telling Black what to feel combined (none)
                    It the combination of the two things that made me say something here. I was mostly planning on letting the diary pass. Then AAB (with the past behavior I've seen) starts telling an African-American ANYTHING on the issue of voting rights, and he needed to be called on it.
                    •  sheesh (none)
                      I believe every member of this community takes the voter suppression that went on in the 2004 election very, very seriously.

                      It was inexcusable, and it was racist.

                      This diary is about fraud, and not suppression, and I think there's a big distinction to be made.

                      What AAB said was 1) voter suppression is a very serious concern, and 2) fraud and suppression are not necessarily the same thing.

                      Nobody is telling anyone anything about voting rights here at all, they are simply recognizing an important issue, and stating that in their opinion, there is a distinction between fraud and supression.

                      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:27:56 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  thank you (none)
                        AAB has been incredibly polite throughtout this whole thing. Especially considering the charges laid against him. No one's being racist here.

                        It is easier to stay out than get out. -Mark Twain

                        by Bundy on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:34:56 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Are you TRYING to start a flame war about race? (2.00)
                        Are you trying to see if you can get 600 posts on a thread with a huge freakin' flame war about race about how white people "still don't get it?"

                        Then DROP IT!

                        •  I'll "drop it" (none)
                          as soon as you stop attacking AAB. I can't just stand by and watch someone be brutalized unfairly.

                          "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                          by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:41:06 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, whites are so brutalized in America (1.00)
                            Have you gotten lazy and just started cutting and pasting your responses from posts at freerepublic.com?
                          •  I think I'll call it a night now (4.00)
                            There is no need for you to be calling people freepers, to be calling people racist, or anything else. Nobody is saying whites are brutalized or anything of the sort.

                            Goodnight, and good luck sorting out the anger.

                            "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                            by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:55:50 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  take a deep breath, (none)
                            open your mind a hair, and reread the thread. You'll find nothing imflammatory in any of AnnArborBlue's comments. You will, however, find him being brutalized essentially for having an opinion. That's not fair, regardless of race.

                            It is easier to stay out than get out. -Mark Twain

                            by Bundy on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:57:54 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  AAB's opinion was he could tell Blacks how to feel (none)
                            He later said he could tell African-Americans what insulted them and what didn't... and I clearly wasn't the only one that saw AAB do it.

                            You need to stop trying to win arguments at any cost.

                          •  again (4.00)
                            you're putting words into his mouth. But I already said that.

                            We are both trying to win this argument any cost, and you're right to point out that it's no good. So this will be my last comment, I promise. I can see how AnnArborBlue's first comment could be interpreted the way you do. However, once he clarified it, I see no reason not to forgive him.

                            It is easier to stay out than get out. -Mark Twain

                            by Bundy on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:23:31 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

        •  You'll have to excuse me (none)
          for not seeing how she's telling an African-American what is an appropriate response

          "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

          by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:42:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  see Bad Santa's and my response to him (none)
            made simultaneously, to AAB's query: "show me how I told someone how to feel", above

            Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

            by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:13:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  don't put words into her mouth (none)
          AnnArborBlue said nothing of the sort. She was just trying to clarify the diarist's intent.

          It is easier to stay out than get out. -Mark Twain

          by Bundy on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:43:24 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  you are quite wrong, actually (none)
        as far as I can tell, unfortunately, the Dkos community takes this issue far less seriously than most communities on the left.  no joke.

        just be thankful for what you've got

        by itsbenj on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:46:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  For all we know (none)
      this diarist could be a champion of Civil Rights!

      Perhaps you should direct that anger at the US Senate, where every single Senator refused to support the congressional black caucus's objections after the 2000 "election."

      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:48:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  As a black woman (4.00)
      I find this shit funny (and, oddly enough, I worked in special efx - of the post production kind.) I get where you're coming from but, fucking please.

      Isn't satire sometimes used to point out the fucked-upness of it all? At what point did it become not okay to laugh at shit to keep from crying? And, if it's not funny please alert Dave Chappelle, for example, because he didn't get the memo either.

      I don't see this diary as being necessarily insulting to any group in particular. In fact, I thought that if it was at the expense of anyone it was armando/kos because of the post yesterday.

      That said, I understand your outrage but I don't think that the author meant any harm to you or me.

  •  And... (4.00)
    ... I'm sorry, but exactly why is this diary making it to the Rec'd List?  I like to think I have a decent sense of humor, but this just seems like the Kool Kidz making fun of the Election Nerds.  Ohio 2004 just isn't that funny.  My kids are going to have to pay for that shit.
    •  if you look at my... (4.00)
      ... "serious" ohio fraud diaries and comments, you'll see i am basically an "election nerd".  

      this diary is just for "humor" purposes.

      •  I knew you were just trying to be funny (none)
        the troll ratings you are getting are not deserved.
      •  backfired (4.00)
        I think this diary is backfiring then.  You might want put an update :"Sarcasism" somewhere.  To me, this diary reads as a mocking of those who have concerns about free and fair elections.
        •  everyone here (none)
          wants free and fair elections.

          Believing fraud occurred, and is provable, in the 2004 election, and wanting paper trails and verified voting are two completely seperate issues, and I don't like them being conflated.

          Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

          by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:18:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  completely separate issues? (none)
            Are you serious, AAB?  

            They are separate, I guess, in the same sense that your cardiovascular system is separate from an inflammation you develop in your lymph system.  In other words, not.

            By the way, are you saying you don't believe fraud occurred in '04, or that it isn't provable if it did?  Just wondering.

            Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

            by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:48:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I meant that one does not (none)
              have to believe in fraud in 2004 to believe in the need for election reform.

              And for the record, I believe fraud was possible in the 2004 election, but haven't seen anything near the level it would take to convince me.

              Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

              by AnnArborBlue on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:50:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Boy (4.00)
                you sure managed to piss some people off, I'll be darned if I can figure out how though...

                "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:08:53 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Maybe the fact that you can't figure it out (none)
                  should, in itself, give you pause.

                  Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                  by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:45:43 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  give ME pause? (none)
                    Maybe the people making all the crazy accusations are the ones who need some "pause".

                    "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                    by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:46:20 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  When I read this diary (none)
                      I felt dissed, because I believe fraud occurred in Ohio and elsewhere last year.  Do I have pictures of ballots being burned? No. I have the Conyers report, and others as well.  

                      When I drive by a liquor store at 3am and see a broken window, shadows moving inside the store, and a running car parked in the lot, I call the police and say: "I think there's a robbery in progress at the liquor store."  

                      That's exactly what I have been doing since the last election.  The broken window, if you will, is the lockdown tally session at the courthouse (County name escapes me at the moment)on election night, where no observers were allowed.  The running car is the wild discrepancies where tallies for liberal judges didn't square with Kerry's much lower tallies.  The shadows are the mysterious appearance of triad techs handling data just before the recount was to have occurred.  I never saw a gun or a bag full of cash, but I still called the cops.   They never came.  

                      If you poke fun at me for calling the cops, especially if it isn't a liquor store but my own house (ie, my own vote), then I will be offended.  I might even throw a punch. I don't care that I haven't proved that a robbery took place.  That isn't my job.  I did my job and yellowdog is making fun of me.  Fuck him or her.  Fuck all yellowdogs, for that matter (look the term up).

                      That I am even taking the time to explain it to you amazes me.  I usually don't have that much patience with offensive people.

                      Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                      by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:10:50 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  The thing is (none)
                        I also think some fraud happened. I also saw the "broken glass and people inside." I also find it shocking that the police didn't show up.

                        And, one possible responce to them not showing up is to laugh in disbelief. Maybe someone can tell a good story about it, and I might laugh loudly, even though I'm upset about the break in, and the fact that nobody seemed to care.

                        Lastly, I'd like to point out that I'm not insulting you or anyone else, I'm not saying "fuck nailbender and these other idiots," and I'm pretty sure neither AAB nor Yellow dog did that either.

                        "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                        by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:17:53 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  go look at the diary again (none)
                          ...especially the penultimate cartoon of the swarthy rabble screaming that we (I) won't "let them get away with it." And think about the fact that our country is probably no longer a democracy, and that those activists among  us who are trying to call attentiont to that outrage are ridiculed at every turn.    

                          Why are you laughing?  There isn't anything funny about it.  Make fun of the thieves, if you must, but not of the guy dialing 911.  My grandkids lives are at stake, for Christ sake.

                          Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

                          by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:34:21 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  If I'm part of the swarthy rabble (none)
                            I'll get a good laugh out of that too.

                            And yes, I'm fighting for my future kids and grandkids too; if I want to chuckle at myself and the situation a few times along the way, I think that's fine.

                            "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                            by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:46:59 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, it needs double reverse sarcasm. (none)
          Since the author is a self-confessed "election nerd," he has to convey that while he's making fun of himself and his cohort, he still believes that fraud is a serious issue and probably happened.  Not an easy task.

          Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out -- Emperor Claudius

          by Upper West on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:19:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  We don't always follow what each diarist has... (none)
        ...said or done in the past. A small caveat of some sort on a diary like this one would be helpful. So often the jokes are reminiscent of right-wing sarcasm. The "conspiracy theorist" charge was first leveled by George W. Bush and still sounds like fingernails on a blackboard to me when I hear it even hinted at.

        We are dominated by a government in power who are capable of anything...anything...as far as I'm concerned. Nothing should be ruled out without a proper hearing and nothing they do should surprise anyone. What's left to decide when you have proof that your government lied the country into war and continues to lie about it today?

        •  good point (none)
          regarding the "conspiracy theory" thing.... that still really angers me personally.

          I remember the first time I saw video of Al Gore gaveling down the Congressional Black Cacus after the election, when they were protesting the voter supression. That was a sad sad day for America, when not a single Senator would step up and support them.

          "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

          by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:25:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  all our kids will pay, and their kids too. (none)
      This belongs on a red blog.

      Meantime, there was a diary just in front of this one about Joe Lieberman possibly being considered to replace Rumsfeld, which was producing some great back and forth about the pros and cons of Joe jumping ship (Jump, Joe, Jump! was my comment) and it evaporated as this one jumps to the rec list, with an average 2.5 in the tip jar.

      Jesus.  Armando needs to cut back on the Prozac.

      Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

      by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:40:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Because it's clever, (4.00)
      immaginative, original and FUNNY. I hate Bush, I hate Cheney, I hate Rummy and  all their women.  They are the essence of evil and the sight and sound of any of them makes me physicaly ill.  I want them to stand trial for crimes against humanity and  be promptly executed. So filled with hate and digust and outrage am I that a little laugh may just keep me from going over the edge.  I thank Yellow Dog for that little laugh.

      "He that sees but does not bear witness, be accursed" Book of Jubilees

      by Lying eyes on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:47:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  what's funny (none)
    Is that I thought it was serious even up until the fire photo.

    Goes to show you how seriously I take these "proof" claims. One day there actually will be proof and nobody will care.

    ronald reagan is the devil. proof: his names all have 6 letters. Ronald Wilson Reagan = 6 6 6.

    by danthrax on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:17:02 PM PST

  •  What will be funny is when conservatives cite this (none)
    as evidence that liberals are crazy and can be convinced by the weakest evidence that fraud occurred.  
    •  Bill (none)
      O'really-crazy will probably cite this as further evidence that we all hate christmas too.

      Well, I mean seriously, does his other proof make sense either?

      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:34:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ugh, the 'war on Christmas' (none)
        Seriously, its so ridiculous.  First, its not really even clear what we're saying---what, saying 'Happy Holidays' threatens Christmas?  Come on.

        Also, if they wanted to save Christmas, why not urge people to donate to their Churches, or charaties, or go to malls and spend even more than they had planned on, if they prefer?  

        The counter-attack on nothing shows the moral bankruptcy of the conservative movement.  

        •  yea (none)
          moral bankruptcy of the conservative movement.

          No kidding.

          <evil Keith says> Well, duh, didn't you know, their morals only apply to OTHER people.

          It's ok to gamble, cheat, lie, commit adultury, whatever, as long as your a balding white conservative working for a mainstream news organization.

          "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

          by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:08:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm a liberal (none)
        and I AM trying to destroy Christmas.

        (note to conservative trolls:  I'm kidding you dimwits...and re-read your scriptures)

    •  yeah (none)
      The conservatives reading this diary (and I'm sure there are some) must find this thread to be the most confusing thing ever. You really have to be a regular in order to get it.

      It is easier to stay out than get out. -Mark Twain

      by Bundy on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:52:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And I wouldn't be surprised if they... (none)
      ...do use it against us, which is why we should never care what they say about us or try to use against us. There will always be something, and if there's nothing, they'll make something up.
  •  Fuck Ohio (1.75)
    •  Fuck New Orleans (none)
      I get it. It's wiped off the map. Can we please move on?

      "Free nations listen to the hopes and aspirations of their people. Free nations are peaceful nations." George Dubya Dumbass, Nov 30, 2005

      by paraphrase on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:45:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Title misleading (none)
    please change.

    It's nice you finally came around, although I still question your intentions.

    by NeoconSemanticist on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:18:22 PM PST

    •  Ah (none)
      but that's the whole point of the satire my friend!

      But, if you ask nicely, I'm sure he'll give the 15 seconds back that he so rudely wasted by making you click into this diary. DOESN"T HE KNOW YOU HAVE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO!!!!!!

      Jk btw, but I do think the title is fine.

      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:33:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I loved the diary (none)
        Every diary on the recommended list must have the comment :title misleading. please change.

        Or is this your first day at kos?

        (jkg of course. I just wanted to be the person that gets all self-righteous and uppity)

        It's nice you finally came around, although I still question your intentions.

        by NeoconSemanticist on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:48:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  heh (none)
          I LOVE being that person.

          And it's my SECOND day you inconsiderate ass.

          (heh)

          "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

          by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:51:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Another thing I miss (none)
            was when people would complain about what got front paged and respond with comments like "This got front paged? I write better stuff than this."

            ahh, the good 'ol days. Back when dissent was all ego driven. Now it's all, "this isn't real. I'm the reality police. Come with me."

            What the hell are we supposed to do with that?

            It's nice you finally came around, although I still question your intentions.

            by NeoconSemanticist on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:47:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Maybe (none)
              we could start a series of diaries bitching about every front page post, or start a series titled "the diary police." Cheers and Jeers be damned, we'll be the next best thing!

              "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

              by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:51:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hell, (none)
                I'm in.

                Seriously, this might be a fun idea. Although it would be tough not to fringe upon Pastordan's or Elizabeth's "WYFP", and of course, Bill in Portland Main's Cheers and Jeers.

                Maybe to seperate ourselves from Bill's Cheers and Jeers we could troll rate everyone who writes in instead of mojo. We could be the Bizarro diary.

                It's nice you finally came around, although I still question your intentions.

                by NeoconSemanticist on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 10:55:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  Bravo! n/t (none)

    "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

    by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:31:53 PM PST

  •  I guess its funny to tease people. (4.00)
    I think its one thing to poke a little fun at pod people or Urantia followers (they're my fave!), but the voting issue is not a question of whether we descend from intergalactic angels or monkeys impregnated with human DNA by aliens a million years ago.

    The voting issue is as serious as a fucking heart-attack, and though I agree with the managers and owner of this site that conjecture should not be presented as fact, I don't see any purpose poking fun at people like this.

    we now know a lot of things, most of which, we already knew... (-dash888) -8.25; -6.41

    by Tirge Caps on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:34:56 PM PST

    •  Agreed (4.00)
      Plus, it isn't even remotely well done.  And given the recent dust up with the management, I don't see how baiting one side of the community in that controversy is even remotely productive.  

      I put a 2 in the tip jar, but a 1 is more to the point in this case, imo, if you follow the rating descriptions.

      Jorge's a renegade; there's blood on his hands, oil in his arteries and cyanide inside his glands...

      by nailbender on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:54:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Baiting. That's the word I was looking for. n_t (none)

        we now know a lot of things, most of which, we already knew... (-dash888) -8.25; -6.41

        by Tirge Caps on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:06:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Totally subjective. (none)
        Either a humor piece works with me or it doesn't. I recommended a hilarious diary by bink supporting Hillary because even though I didn't agree with it, it was still hilarious. This one was funny as well.

        I think, and I am sure the diarist would agree, that we have to take these issues seriously and that we need to sift out the wheat from the chaff.

        Let me put myself into Blackwell's position for a moment: I am the chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign as well as the SOS in Ohio. I want to help them as much as I can, but I do not wish to get caught. So, what I would do is make rulings over tough cases as favorable to Bush as possible without crossing the line or technically breaking the law.

        So, what I will therefore do is put more machines in GOP precincts than Democratic precincts. And furthermore, I will send all the experienced poll workers there as well. And furthermore, I would not want to know anything about how Diebold operates with their machines, and to give the appearence of fairness, I will reject a machine or two.

        I would not want to alter ballots, because that would need to involve the cooperation of numerous election workers, who are under my payroll. But the danger of that approach would be that if one out of thousands were to squeal, then I am history. But I would issue rulings that would be as favorable as possible to Bush, including setting standards for challenging people that are really tough, since lower voter turnout helps my guy.

        And furthermore, I would throw out as many provisional ballots as possible, since many of those are in Cleveland and Columbus, where Kerry's strength is. I would do so by issuing rules requiring my workers to do so under certain circumstances.

        You see what I am getting at? I would want to help Bush as much as possible, but I would not want to be caught. So, while I am not going to actually get involved in the altering of ballots, I am going to look the other way, because I don't want to know anything about it. And I am going to issue rulings that help Bush as much as possible.

    •  Agreed (none)
      It is fun to laugh at conspiracy theories and their authors' confusion between imagination and fact.  

      It is incorrect to describe the voter malfeasance issue in Ohio as a conspiracy theory.  There are simply too many facts.

  •  Poor Taste (4.00)
    I won't rate this diary one way or the other but I find it to be in very poor taste.

    You don't have to wear a tin foil hat to sense that something stinks in Ohio, with companies like Diebold and our election system as a whole (why can't I get a freaking receipt after I vote? I can get one for purchasing a freaking candy bar...)

    Mocking those who hold differing opinions is uncalled for, really.

    Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. ~ Calvin

    by djMikulec on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:55:08 PM PST

    •  I dunno (none)
      I think the Ohio election stunk like rotten fish, and I still got a good laugh from it.

      Respect your opinion though.

      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 07:58:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  a good laugh (none)
        I've not had a good laugh since GeeWhizDubya got outsmarted by a locked door in China.

        I expect I may have another laugh if Tom Delay does indeed have to go to trial in TX, though I have to wait until Tuesday for that.

        Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. ~ Calvin

        by djMikulec on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:22:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh man, now that was funny (none)
          I like to think that some staffer or reporter over in China locked that door on purpose... god did Dubya ever look like a fool, lol.

          "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

          by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:34:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "DeLay motion to dismiss rejected" (none)
            I got my second laugh a day early.

            har har har har ...
            Hey Tom, bite me!
            heh heh heh heh!

            Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. ~ Calvin

            by djMikulec on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 04:43:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Be Careful (4.00)
    WHEN YOU

    INTO A

    YOU WILL GET AN

    HERE AT DKOS. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED

    •  The problem with that (none)
      is sometimes we can't really discuss things which should be discussed, calmly and rationally.

      Now clearly this diarly isn't one of those cases, heh, but I think people are a bit quick to go on the attack sometimes.

      This is from someone who has himself wrongly accused people of being trolls, and unfairly attacked people in the past. I hope that other people can learn from their mistakes too though.

      You've really really hit the nail on the head though, so true...

      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

      by nNYKeith on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 08:49:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Now this set of images really is funny ! (none)
       It's tough to argue about taste,or humor....I saw the diary as poking fun at both sides of the furor and as far as trying to inject some humor into it, I guess it did not work too well. But I don't think the diarist meant to put anybody down.

       Satire is 'hard work', man !

      I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once.

      by Dvalkure on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:30:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ha, classic! (none)
    I remember those Bev Harris diaries too. She posted almost exactly this kind of stuff on her webpage. Like, there was that time she promised the huge development/update or whatever and then just posted pictures of her staffers/volunteers making funny faces and poses.

    I'd say this diary definitely has some justice to it.

  •  Oh, for gawd's sake... lighten up people! (4.00)
    When did it become so out of fashion to have a sense of humor?!

    Don't you know that within every satire lies a kernel of truth?  

    Lose your ability to laugh at this diary and the basic tenet it touts is so, so [shudder] "Republican"... ewwww!

    Yes, it's a serious matter about voting irregularity, but to persecute the messenger makes me wonder about these prior postings.

  •  Dickhead (3.00)
    You mock a very real problem, with real consequences; and insult as ridiculous all of the people attempting to solve it.
  •  Highly recommend. (4.00)
    The parting shot at Armando, I'm still laughing.

    Thanks for this diary.
    My rage meter pegged a year ago with Fallujah.
    It's hope and humor that keep me sane.

    ------- 1776 called. They want their country back.

    by EdlinUser on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:28:44 PM PST

  •  I won't recommend this diary (none)
    but I will laugh at it.

    I don't think we need to have frivolous diaries as a mainstay, but we have had diaries more unproductive than this one achieve success.

    Besides, "pouring acid on the ashes" is just the right amount of too much. heh.

  •  It's very funny... unless (4.00)
    the election really was stolen. In which case it's very sad.

    Seriously, Yellowdoggie, three questions:

    -If votes are being tampered with to any significant degree, is that ok?

    -If your candidate won only by tampering, is that ok with you?

    -What scares you about fair elections?

    "I shall follow the light of reason, express my honest thoughts, help destroy superstition, and work for the happiness of my fellow beings." - Robert Ingersoll

    by JavaManny on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:33:17 PM PST

  •  Your ignorance is showing (4.00)
    We're not talking about Santa Clause.  Just because there isn't any proof doesn't mean that it didn't happen.  If proof was needed for every belief then noone would believe in God.

    What it feels like on this end, where I don't know if the election was stolen, but I Don't Know If It Wasn't Either, is that to say it wasn't and be so damned certain about it "because you have no proof" is lacking vigilence and responsibility in a time when time and time again republican types will sneak around our backs to do whatever they want.  Nixon.  Iran-Contra.  Enron Brand Electricity.  Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction.  Texans for a Republican Majority.  Texas Redistricting.  Indian Gaming Board.  Duking Defense Contractors.  Valerie Plame.  Abramov.  

    Are you that stupid??

    We should all be vigilant, with our eyes wide open to all possibilities.  Don't you feel that way towards our Republican friends, I mean our real friends and family, that they have been asleep??  It feels like we are at camp in hostile territory, and it's your turn to be on post, to be the sentry, and you've fallen asleep!!!  And there are guns firing in the night.  And you still haven't waken up.

    I don't know if the election has been stolen for sure.  But something doesn't feel right to an aweful lot of us... some of us are pretty damned smart and don't get misdirected very often.  And now we do hear noises in the dark around us, and we're not children.

    That is where the anger comes from.  In case you've ever wondered.

    Go ahead and make fun.  But we're not the one's out there in the dark... planning... moving... stalking...

    Rest in Peace, those dreams may be your last.

    Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

    by d3n4l1 on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 09:39:28 PM PST

  •  I don't find this particularly funny, (none)
    because unfortunately much of what you've "spoofed" is actually true.

    For example, as for:

    "Oh no!  They just carried them out of the election site, to an "undisclosed location"

    I happen to remember seeing photographs posted on some blog/site (unfortunately I can't remember which, I was checking in to so many) on election night that showed just that: boxes of ballots being loaded into a car or van that had "Bush/Cheney" stickers on it, and then transported off to who-knows-where. (The person who posted the photos had followed them as far as he could.)

    For the life of me I can't remember which blog I saw this stuff on, or what locality the story referred to.

    Maybe someone else saw them and has a better memory than I do?

    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

    by Donna in Rome on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 10:00:34 PM PST

    •  I've just found it... it was in Ohio, and posted (4.00)
      by John on AmericaBlog:

      Possible evidence of voter fraud in Ohio
      by John in DC - 11/03/2004 02:56:47 AM

      I just received a photo a Cincinnati poll manager took this evening, and it seems to be proof of some fishy actions with ballots in Ohio. Bottom line: Note the already-voted-with ballots in the back of the truck with the Bush-Cheney sticker in the back window. Does this prove fraud? Well, it certainly doesn't look good in a state that's already had lots of problems this election.

      ---(Photo link no longer working)---

      In a nutshell, Stefan Skirtz is a poll manager for the Kerry campaign in Cincinnati. His precinct is heavily made up of minorities and students (i.e., leans Kerry). One of the duties of the poll managers, Stefan told me in a phone call minutes ago, is to follow the poll workers to election headquarters as they drop off the ballots and ballot boxes. Stefan followed the poll workers who didn't go directly to the election headquarters. Instead, they went to a local public school where workers put the ballot machines into a semi trailer, and then the poll workers handed off the sealed bags containing the ballots to someone Stefan assumed was with the county board of elections.

      The first problem he noticed was that there was no sign off of the transfer of the ballots. Nothing was written down and given to the poll worker as proof that the ballots were passed off to the county employee.

      What's worse, Stefan noticed the pick-up truck of the supposed county board of election - the truck the ballots for 40 precincts were loaded into - had a big Bush-Cheney 2004 sticker in the back window. Stefan did say that he followed the truck to the election headquarters, though he didn't see what transpired after the truck pulled into the election hq parking lot.

      As Stefan explains it, the poll managers had such an extensive list of voters rights and regulations that they had to follow, including it being illegal to have any partisan buttons etc. in the polling place, yet the ballots for voters in over 40 precincts were put in the hands of Bush-Cheney partisans.

      I don't know whether the Bush partisans did or didn't play any games with the ballots they received, but it sure doesn't look good, and I wonder whether it's even legal. And let's not forget, this is a state that was already well on its way to becoming the new Florida of GOP election fraud.

      Stefan says he has 6 or 7 witnesses who also saw the sticker on the truck. I have Stefan's contact info for members of the media.


      "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

      by Donna in Rome on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 10:34:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Cripes, people, lighten up (none)
    This habit some people have of looking to be offended is insane!  Personally, I thought the diary was mildly amusing...but to see (really ugly) accusations of racism and not caring about Ohio, fraud, suppression?  Sheesh!  You can laugh about serious things...case in point:

    METAIRIE, La. -- The outcry was so intense after a suburban New Orleans mall removed a Christmas display of a miniature hurricane-ravaged town that the exhibit is going back up this weekend.

    Frank Evans, who designed the tiny blue-tarped roofs and little toppled fences, said he was reinstalling them at the mall's request starting Friday night.

    The miniature town, a full 60 feet long with pumping stations and tiny piles of hurricane debris, is circled by a miniature train that children ride after sitting in Santa's lap. It was installed in mid-November but ordered removed Tuesday after some people complained it was in poor taste.

    Evans said the removal prompted hundreds of e-mails of support for the display, compared to just 10 complaints about the display. The mall's marketing manager Tricia Thriffiley said she personally received more than 500 e-mails.

    Do you think this means these people don't care about the ongoing tragedy in their own lives?  No!  It's a simple truth...sometimes you have to laugh so you don't cry.  If you don't think the diary is funny, why can't you move along instead of turning it into something it's not.  

    Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

    by Barbara Morrill on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 10:01:01 PM PST

    •  The model doesn't deter anyone from helping. (none)
      Jokes about people that suspect election fraud deter people from taking the topic seriously.  Nobody wants to be part of the group being made fun of.  

      Most people are what?...

      Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

      by d3n4l1 on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 10:43:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hmmm (none)
    Lots of hotlinking of these images. Not cool. It's rude, and you're stealing other people's bandwidth.

    Please remedy ASAP.

  •  You got your evedence confused. (none)
    It was San Francisco's election in 2002, on publicly owned power, (Which PG&E opposed big time) where the missing ballot boxes were found floating in the bay by the coast guard three days later. (true story) Get your fixes right. Not that there was any reason to be paranoid or anything it was an Energy firm we're talkin here, like Enron.

    "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" R.Piper

    by McGirk SF on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 11:22:41 PM PST

  •  We can agree to disagree... (none)
    Reasonable minds may differ on the question of whether enough irregularity has surfaced that electronic fraud should be seriously considered as a possibile explanation for GWB's presidency.

    Your diary, humorous as it may be intended, instead comes across as an extended insult for those open minds here willing to look closer at the Ohio peculiarities.  Insulting wide segments of the dkos community (even those with [heaven forbid] an unpopular or minority viewpoint) strikes me as unproductive.  

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