Daily Kos

Fowler: 'Dean can work for me'

by kos

Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 07:58:13 AM PDT

Dean needs 224 votes to be the next chair of the Democratic Party. As of yesterday, National Journal reports Dean had 215 endorsements to Fowler's 13.

Fowler claims he's really got 72 endorsements, though it's curious that these votes haven't announced publicly. But it's really his arrogance that's grating:

WOODRUFF: Are you open to some sort of an arrangement where you would work at a high level at the DNC but with the chair rather than being chair?

FOWLER: I would be happy to have Howard Dean be my executive director of the DNC.

I'm not saying he should drop out. I was hoping for more of a contest next weekend, rather than the Dean coronation this is shaping up to be. And I think the race has been great for the party -- the first time in ages that this decision, to the consternation of the party's old powerbrokers, will be decided outside of a smoke-filled room.

But man, Fowler needs to learn a bit more humility. Dean built a movement Fowler could only dream of without the help of a powerful and politically connected father.

Update: A Fowler spokesperson says the comment was a joke, and that he was laughing when he said it.

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Permalink | 175 comments

  •  Unwitting Self-Sabotage (none / 0)

    Fowler thought he would escape this thing as some kind of rising star.  From the looks of it, he's going to be persona non-grata in DNC circles.

    I'm sure the DLC would love to have him, however.

    by captainebo on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 07:58:34 AM PDT

    •  yep (none / 1)

      He's probably doing more damage to his career than good.

      Out of the night that covers me, Black as the Pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.

      by Descrates on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:15:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bug Bush... Go Vote... O/T (none / 0)

        North Dakota Democratic Senator Kent Conrad needs some help with this poll in the Fargo Forum... which asks if Republican Gov John Hoeven can beat him in 2006...  

        Looks like the President must have been lining up a challenger for one of our Red State Senators during his visit to Fargo yesterday...  (go vote... middle of page towards the right)

        The Christian Right is Neither...

        by Prairie Logic on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 04:52:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  These kinds of comments (4.00 / 6)

    really reveal how green he is. He needs to grow up and then come back to the table to being a contributor for a while before his next chair run.

    by BrianVA on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:00:21 AM PDT

  •  ugh (none / 1)

    Looks like Donnie Fowler needs a few more lessons in humility, and it seems he hasn't grasped the concept of "teamwork" that is so important in grassroots activism among progressive Democrats. I hope to God he doesn't get the DNC spot.

    Want to learn more about Values-Based Living?

    by slinkerwink on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:00:21 AM PDT

  •  BREAKING! (4.00 / 22)

    Nader announces Bush and Gore can work for him.

    The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

    by DHinMI on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:01:44 AM PDT

  •  Well I am sure Dean is now over the top (none / 0)

    www.blogforamerica.com :
    Farrell and New York DNC Members Endorse Dean

    by dddemocrat on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:01:56 AM PDT

  •  Fowler's a nitwit (none / 1)

    Anyone else hear him on Franken yesterday? His attitude and on-air demeanor makes me think he'd be more qualified to run a chapter of College Democrats rather than the DNC.

    He has a good pitch-fry the consultantacracy, reform the party. I just don't believe he'd be able to do it without collapsing in the face of the party's decadence.

    Dean, OTOH, I can easily see taking that baseball bad of his and tearing the stuff up with it and, if need be, his bare hands.

    by Fragamemnon on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:02:19 AM PDT

  •  A humble politician? (4.00 / 9)

    Perish the thought!

    Well, there are a few, including this guy...

    I know, I know, there are the Dean haters here, but say what you will... he's anything but arrogant.

    And I like that.  I like it a lot.

    We need Dean!


    Blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed. -- Bruce Springsteen

    by Plutonium Page on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:02:55 AM PDT

    •  Love that pic (4.00 / 2)

      It reminds me of the good old days of the primaries and when I actually thought things were going to change.

      "Change is one thing, progress is another." - Bertrand Russell

      by MemphisBryan on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:10:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A Dean story (4.00 / 14)

      Everyone says that a politician or leader must be able to connect with 'the little guy.'

      My mom grew up in very modest circumstances. My grandparents were hardworking but poor people, without even high school educations. My mother got through high school, and speaks and conducts herself with gracious manners, but is basically shy, and is always afraid some trace of her "poor" background is going to come out.

      Do you know who made her not only comfortable, but smile and laugh? Howard Dean.

      She's my litmus test. If someone comes off to her as genuine, sincere, humble and real, someone who's not trying to impress, bully, or snob you, then that's who that person is.

      I know personal anecdotes don't add up to much, but time and again in my life the Mom test has proven itself to me.  

      by Kimberly Stone on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:12:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As Opposed To Park-Avenue Dean? (none / 0)

        Sorry, had to ask.  

        Did you love NN08 in Austin? Join us in Pittsburgh in 2009!

        by Adam B on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:12:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He acts more Vermont than NY, I think (none / 0)

          He doesn't act like he came from Park Avenue, at least not in the sense of the prickly snobbery of the worst of P A people.

          by Kimberly Stone on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:45:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And unlike Shrub (none / 0)

            Dean is who he is.  He doesn't run from his background but he doesn't condescend to folks either.

            What a refreshing antidote to that fake @$$, I'm a windshield cowboy at my set-piece "ranch" in Crawford crap.  

            "Sir, we've already lost the dock." A Zion Lieutenant to Commander Lock, The Matrix Revolutions

            by AuntiePeachy on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 11:59:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bush: disgrace to Texans and ranchers! (none / 0)

              One of my friends has family-owned property down near Crawford. He says the locals have two and only two reactions to Bush: star-struck awe or sniggering contempt.

              The kind of old gentlemen, certainly a dying generation, that my friend's granddad and great uncle are, men who genuinely farmed and ranched to provide food for their tables, think Bush is a sack of pigshit. The man does not even ride a horse. He cannot rope a calf. He probably can't tell a steer from a bull! They might, some of them, like him politically but they think he's a fraud.

              Another generation loves him like butter on toast. Go figure.

              by Kimberly Stone on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 06:47:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  gotta bring up the public schools again (none / 0)

          being able to "escape your upbringing" can go two ways. Remember that Dean's family thought becoming a doctor was moving down in the world.

          Dean sent both of his kids to public school--albeit I imagine better schools than the public schools I'm avoiding sending my kids to in Philadelphia--but how many people in that league do that? Not that many.

          Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!

          by JMS on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 10:21:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Some of the (none / 0)

          classiest (read: nicest, most down-to-earth) folks I know grew up on 5th Ave. or in Beverly Hills.  Some of nastiest people I know grew up poor with a chip on their shoulder.  And vice-versa.  Don't hold someone's background against them.

          Are you a Republican? A conservative? A dumbass? -- The Majority Report

          by Passing Shot on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 12:27:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Missed the point altogether. (none / 0)

            I have no intention to hold someone's background against them.

            But I'd be a fool to deny that some people hold their background against me.

            They think that they're poorer, and thus I'm a rich snob and worthlesss.  Or they're rich, and I'm certainly not, so they think they're better.

            I'm not playing that game. Someone's always poorer, and unless you're the Sultan of Brunei, someone is always richer. So screw it. It means nothing.

            by Kimberly Stone on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 06:50:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Its the difference between (none / 1)

    a careerist & the real deal. And with Dean taking endorsements and pledges overwhelmingly, why should he bring on "missing $2.9mn Fowler"?

    by Zach in Phoenix on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:03:25 AM PDT

    •  Now It's $2.9? (none / 0)

      Nothing has even been established, and Markos said that the unsubstantiated rumors didn't go past $1.25 million, even though the Detroit Free Press article said $2.5.  Now we're at $2.9 million.  Shit, wit inflation like that, I guess the money supposedly lost was pegged to the Argentine currency.  

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by DHinMI on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:29:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Uh, Donnie, dude... (4.00 / 12)

    I think that Dean guy used to run his own state or something like that.

    by HappyMichBlogger on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:03:46 AM PDT

  •  Another W (2.75 / 16)

    Fowler just showed himself to be another W, who believes he is owed the world just because daddy set him up in his job.

    Sad.

    -6.00/-7.18

    by TarheelDem on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:04:09 AM PDT

    •  Trol (none / 1)

      Some things are beyond the pale. That's one of them. You don't want him to be chair, that's okay by me. But comparing a Democrat who's worked as hard as Donnie to W is bullshit.

      by fng on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:32:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here's my beef with Donnie (none / 1)

      In previous comments, I said that the best line-up at the DNC would be;
      Dean, Chair
      Rosenberg, Communications
      Fowler, Field Operations (based on his rep)

      I also said, "if they are big enough to work together."  With the quoted statement, Donnie Fowler proves that he is not big enough.

      If you think that Donnie would be where he is if it weren't for daddy Don, you don't know South Carolina politics.  The arrogance of his remark speaks of the same sort of attitude of entitlement that W possesses.

      And it is sad.  He showed so much promise, but he got impatient.

      -6.00/-7.18

      by TarheelDem on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 10:14:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So dissapointing (none / 1)

    I had liked Fowler towards the beginning of this race.  I alwas thought he was too young and preferred Dean or Rosenberg, but he seemed like he got it and would be around doing good things for the democrats for a long time. I guess that was wrong.

    by deadguy on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:05:06 AM PDT

  •  what do you expect from Fowler? (3.83 / 6)

    I don't see it as being such a bad statement.  Just his way of saying that he still wants to be in the running until it's over.  I don't see it very different from if Edwards toward the end of the primaries, after his fate looked pretty sealed, had been asked if he'd be willing to be kerry's vp and had said "I would love to have Kerry as my VP."  Kind of silly, but also understandeable and a political necessity.

    "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

    by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:05:37 AM PDT

    •  yeah, I agree with this (none / 0)

      I'm to see what Dean can do as Chair, but don't really see what Fowler could be expected to say to Woodruff in this instance other than "I'm in this race to win" (which, when you think about it, would be the more politic thing to say).  I assume, like any body running for something, he wants to look like he's in it to the end.

      NetrootNews coming soon!

      by ksh01 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:35:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am supporting Dean, but I don't really (4.00 / 2)

    see this comment as being that bad. The truth is any candidate running for anything would say thing. You don't want to give the appearance that you think of yourself as a  losing candidate even if you are.

    by bruh1 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:06:07 AM PDT

    •  Hmmm (none / 0)

      Dunno, this isn't running for elected public office - it's DNC Chair - I don't think your analogy holds.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:11:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  why is it (none / 0)

        different?

        "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

        by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:13:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well (none / 0)

          The campaigning is to established Democrats, not the general public mostly.

          And this is the principal reason this type of bravura is out of place IMO.

          Who is Fowler playing to with that nonsense?  In a campaign for political office, especially Presient, which is really the only place these stupid questions are asked, the silly perception game matter some - here it doesn't - here it is juvenile and/or arrogant.  Frankly, it is mostly strange to me.

          Everybody dies alone.

          by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:17:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think a lot of this race (none / 0)

            has come down to a public opinion/perception war as much as an internal Democratic decision.  Also, out of curiosity, do you think its equally strange that he has yet to drop out?

            "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

            by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:19:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not for Fowler (none / 0)

              His is an insiders game.  Making his statement particularly juvenile.

              Everybody dies alone.

              by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:20:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  that is (none / 0)

                fair enough.  Didn't answer my second question though... is it strange that he hasn't dropped out/should he drop out?

                "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

                by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:22:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I never knew why he was in (none / 0)

                  Roemer and then Frost were the serious rivals.

                  Rosenberg was always playing to be the compromise candidate.

                  He semed a vanity from the beginning to me.  It's pretty hard to argue "we need stability" or some such nonsnese in arguing against Dean and then produce Fowler as the alternative.

                  Everybody dies alone.

                  by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:28:44 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  come to think of it (none / 0)

                    me neither.  still think he has the right to give it his shot and that his comment is kind of a necessary part of giving it a real shot.  There are definitely bigger battles to be fought though.

                    "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

                    by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:31:44 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree with this (none / 0)

                    At the very least, he seems a bit politically innept when it comes to the impact of his words on his intended audience. More than that, I think he doesn't seem as strong a candidate from what I keep seeing and hear him do. But, this being said, I don't think he should be forced to drop out. I actually like the debate that this has encouraged.

                    by bruh1 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:32:28 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I think he was presenting himself (none / 1)

                    I never knew why he was in

                    stylistically and ideologically as an alternative to Dean. His written statements and particularly the first one which was FPed here were obviously designed to appeal to Dean supporters and the goofiness of his presentation was some sort of warped establishment notion of why those folks thought that we support Dean.

                    In other words I think he was in to pull support from Deaniacs and thus divide. I don't think that we here have been entirely without influence in this (as the sour grapes folks are now insisting) The problem for them was that they, once again, believed their stereotypes. I hope this is clear, I haven't had my coffee yet.

                    by colleen on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:54:50 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  I think we are getting passionate over (4.00 / 4)

                nothing. The truth is it is perfectly acceptable for him to want to influence public perception. He's not doing it in a backroom. He's saying to those who are listening that he hasn't given up yet and that he is still in the race. It is exactly like the primaries in the sense of the human pscyhology dynamics. If he approaches as though he had already lost or without confidence that he would win, then he is essentially, as the underdog, saying that he lost. Are the distictions that you are making colored by your personal stake in this? I can't answer that, but I wanted to make certain that we understand that we aren't talking something that is far afield of acceptable candidate behavior. It's like win Reagan was asked about his age during the Mondale-Reagan debate in 84 and Reagan said he wouldn't comment on his opponent's youth and inexperience. These sorts of lines are designed to influence perception, and not about him trying to do a backroom deal or trying to be juvenile. It is simply politics. For that matter, it is akin to Clinton being the come back kid in 92 when he had just lose a primary. In all these cases, like this one, it is about running a race and influencing the voter. The positions maybe different, as is the number of voters to influence, but the technique is the same.

                by bruh1 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:28:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  My embarrassment for Donnie (none / 0)

                  comes from essentially liking him, but becoming more impatient with his rookie mistakes which just makes people who are actually considering voting for him, roll their eyes in pondering an "Oh, Donnie moment"

                  Donnie is running his campaign now in the media with the most incompentent publicist I have seen in a long time.

                  Dean is running his campaign by personally engaging in one on one lobbying for votes and endorsements.  Who has the most votes?

                  To fully understand the context of all this, and Donnie serial misteps, you might read Ryan Lizza's article on TNR.

                  by nanorich on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:35:26 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  The Brewer/Fowler (4.00 / 2)

            power play failing in such a hamhanded fashion might have been a cue to Donnie to take it down a notch.

            Since his utterly stupid "inevitability" quote which failed to pay off, he seems to be blind to how transparently lame he looks.

            Donnie is a middle level operative who initially makes a good impression, but makes serious errors in judgement time after time.

            And his publicist sucks, too.

            When Dennis made his remark, it looked cute.  When Donnie does something similar he looks clueless.

            It is a matter of style.  Also, I wish he would drop the country boy routine...it is getting real old.

            by nanorich on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:27:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Country Boy (none / 1)

              Yes!  I roll my eyes every time he says something like,

              "Well down in the South, where I'm from, we do..
              "We have a saying where I'm from.. "
              "[insert your favorite reference to the South]"

              And it's all done in this Southern drawl that I do not think is his normal speaking tone.

              The road to hell is paved with Good Intentions.

              by JenAtlanta on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:11:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Donnie's accent (none / 0)

                comes and goes, depending on who he is talking to.

                by nanorich on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:18:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So does mine... (none / 0)

                  I can't help it.  Now I happen to be hispanic.  But after working closely with colleagues in the South for several years, I've been also known to drop into a slightly southern accent as well [embarrassed shrug].  I'm always afraid whoever I'm talking will think I'm making fun of them or playing them.  Instead it's totally involuntary.

                  I really don't hold this against him.

                  The chips are down. Find your outrage.

                  by sj on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 10:01:52 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  also (none / 0)

        in many, many ways, this race has taken on the character of a race for public office, so i feel like many of the same rules apply.

        "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

        by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:14:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No it hasn't to that extent (none / 1)

          there are only 447 voters - do you think Fowler is appealing to grassroots Dems to pressure the DNC members on this? Quite the reverse, Fowler is an insider candidate.

          The more I think about it, the more absurd the statement seems.

          Everybody dies alone.

          by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:19:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think he (none / 0)

            isn't quite ready to concede the race yet, for whatever reason (IMO because he's just looking to get his name out there a bit more) and responding to the reporter's dig with his own is kind of required for staying in the race.  I also think staying in the race is kind of silly at this point, but that's a different question.

            "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

            by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:21:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I think you are overplaying your position on this (none / 0)

            It's one statement. If you are going to have a legitimate problem with his insiderism, the play with the vote early this week is more than enough as well as the stuff in Michigan. But, this is to me just gilding the lily.

            by bruh1 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:30:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It's not that hard to answer this question. (none / 0)

      A better answer is to acknowledge something good about your opponent, so as not to seem like sour and arrogant, and then get back to your own qualifications for the job.

      "I think Governor Dean's Democracy for America organization does some great things and he is a good leader of it. But I'm going to be a great DNC chair because [blahblah]."

      Always show respect and courtesy toward one's opponent, and always show a bit of your own humility.

      by Kimberly Stone on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:15:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the question (none / 0)

        was a bit of a dig though.  Its premise implied that his race was done.  I can't blame him for respondign with a bit of a dig back.  This wasn't such an out of the ordinary thing to say (look at the Kucinich quote a few comments down).

        "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

        by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:17:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  oh common (none / 0)

    it's an election! They're suppose to say things like that.

    I can almost hear him saying it - probably with a hint of humor. I want Dean over Fowler but he's not a bad guy. Give him credit for at least running.  Let's not take ourselves too seriously here --lighten up kos.
     

    "...I was worried about what he'd do to the economy... muck up the drinking water...the failure of my pessimistic imagination...boggles my mind" Sarah Vowell

    by CrazyDem on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:06:19 AM PDT

  •  Everytime (4.00 / 6)

    Donnie opens his mouth, I just get this sinking feeling.

    Anybody notice that Dean has not been doing interviews, but has been personally lobbying for votes and endorsements out of the public eye.

    I really hope THIS TIME, Donnie has finally talked himself out of the Field Directors job.

    This is getting embarrassing.  

    by nanorich on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:07:06 AM PDT

    •  That's the best way... (none / 0)

      I've seen it put.

      Donnie has done well. The ASDC pull that he and his father have is evident. Brewer's attempt to shape the race would have really helped Fowler IF it had worked.

      However, Donnie's got to be realistic. In my opinion, nobody should consider voting for Fowler until that audit is done in Michigan. Donnie and Mark are responsible for that missing money. Until that question gets answered, he can't be responsible for the DNC.

      Finally, I don't get the same sense of credibility from Donnie that I get from Dean, Webb or Rosenberg. I've found those three to be honest and forthright even if I haven't agreed with what I heard. I get the feeling that if Donnie took over as DNC Chair, most of those campaign promises would be forgotten very quickly. That's my take.

      This space for rent.

      by Danno11 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:35:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What to do about Donnie.... (none / 1)

        might best be done in consultation with Gore, for whom Donnie worked as Field Director.  I don't see him actually getting the Executive Director job....

        As Field Director, he might be working with various State Chairs...and  I gotta say, after his attempt to finesse the ASDC endorsement as Brewer's Boy, there might be some hostility to his appointment there.  I am only speculating, however let's make sure than Donnie is a first class field guy before he get a job where he might do some damage.

        Jokingly, I suggested that Dean's best move might be to put Donnie and Donna Brazile in charge of each other, and thereby kill two birds with one stone.

        by nanorich on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:16:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  woodruff (none / 0)

    Always gets the best out of people, doesn't she?

    Life is full of surprises, and there is always hope. - Ruth Reichl

    by Hope Despite All on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:07:38 AM PDT

  •  Would it sound different (none / 0)

    if he'd said, "I would be happy to have Howard Dean be our executive director of the DNC?" Because it could also be taken that way. I didn't see the show, just read the linked transcript but I'd hate to pillory someone over word choice.

    Signed,
    Raving Deaniac

    tragically un-hip
    ..- .... --..-- / --- -.- .-.-.-

    -5.88, -6.82

    by Debby on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:07:47 AM PDT

  •  My disenchantment (none / 1)

    My disenchantment with the Democratic Party grows every day.  Someone sent me a Slate article this morning that said that it doesn't matter who the DNC chairman is, they have no control over the party's direction.

    sigh

    I admire Dr. Dean's resilience and tenacity.  I hope he is able to use his new position and star power to re-shape that chairmanship and the whole Democratic Party.  As it stands right now, I'm on the outside looking in for changes.

    "Change is one thing, progress is another." - Bertrand Russell

    by MemphisBryan on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:08:43 AM PDT

    •  Well sounds like your disenchantment (4.00 / 4)

      should be at Slate, not the Democratic Party.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:09:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is coming from people who don't want change (none / 0)

      The the states get excited and motivated and want change ...what is Dean suppose to do ...throw cold water on them.

      That article makes no sense and it is just part of the DLC/GOP noise machine trying to cut off Dean's balls before he takes the chair.

      By their rules the Exec. Committee should have dictated to the State Chairs the annointed candidate...well that did not quite work out as planned now did it.

      by dddemocrat on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:16:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That would be good ole Carville's position (none / 0)

        on the DNC chair.  He would have preferred if he and Clinton got in a room and declared a winner.  Clinton can still talk the fur off a bear, but some of his dem luster is wearing off for me.  To much 'picture taking' with the opposition.

        but that is just personal for me.

        by GrandmaJ on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:20:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  As a Clark Supporter (4.00 / 2)

    you can imagine I'm no fan of Fowler.

    Taking a shot at the candidate you ostensibly supported on your way out tells you something about the guy.

    This tells you a bit more.

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:09:11 AM PDT

  •  Not a big deal (4.00 / 8)

    From the Democratic candidates debate, Thursday, February 26, 2004, at the Univerisity of Southern California:


    LARRY KING: Congressman Kucinich, do you have a preference? Do you have a preference of these two? Do you have a...

    CONG. DENNIS KUCINICH: I'd be proud to have any of these gentlemen up here as my running-mate. And I'd also like to say...

    Kos, this is what everyone who runs for office says when they don't want to admit defeat. We get it - you don't like Donnie Fowler. Great, you've got lots of company. Why the need to Nedra Pickler and pile-on?

    by Expo on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:10:17 AM PDT

    •  nice quote (none / 0)

      much better than my hypothetical Edwards example a few comments up

      "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

      by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:12:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  DNC Chair (none / 0)

      is not the same thing to my mind.

      I think kos has a point here.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:13:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kucinich's answer lacks graciousness too. (none / 0)

      As well as reality.

      Better answer:

      "I think my opponents are all wonderful Democrats who will find many ways in the future to serve our party and country. Blahblahblah."

      Mentioning the future service to the party is the gracious out. It implies that no, they won't be the nominee, but they're not chopped liver either.

      by Kimberly Stone on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:21:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Expo nailed it. (none / 0)

      It's an easy joke to make, and used often enough to be in danger of becoming cliché.

      Kucinich doesn't have a vengeful bone in his body, and he made the same joke, as Expo pointed out.

      I admire Fowler's gallows humor, even if he's completely the wrong guy for the Chair for a myriad of other reasons.

      Dean's the guy - we all know that, and most of us support it (or will go along with it). And unlike Carville, I love that the convention actually took the power to decide their chair.

      by Peace JD on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 12:41:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The plot thickens... (none / 0)

    From The Note :

    ...."As of this morning, former Rep. Tim Roemer was still in the race, although we noticed that when we called his office Thursday, it was answered with a "Tim Roemer's office" greeting rather than a "Roemer for Chair" greeting.

    And Simon Rosenberg? The poor man is ill and barely able to speak, a spokesman said, so there's nothing to report from his end, either. Though as we Noted above, we hear there's a "major announcement" coming today in a conference call with reporters at 1:00 pm ET. "

    It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:10:28 AM PDT

  •  Serious question . . (none / 0)

    What's Fowler's bio? (not his dad's).

    John McCain a/k/a John Sidney "Grampy McSame"

    by MRL on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:10:36 AM PDT

  •  He's been advertising here for a while (none / 0)

    Doesn't look like its paying off.

    Hoping for Obama

    by KingJames on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:11:18 AM PDT

    •  Where is Dean's advertising? At least Donnie is (none / 1)

      advertising here at dKOs

      That is arrogance. I guess he needs not vie for the Blog support.

      by wdmosely on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:20:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Huh? (none / 0)

        Everybody dies alone.

        by Armando on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:23:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  umm (none / 0)

        that's a bit of a weird way to look at it.  Dean is a big part of the reason blogs are making it into mainstream politics, I don't think he has some animus against them.  Maybe he just doesn't feel the need to advertise.  Or maybe he thinks advertising at dkos isn't the most effective way to spend money considering that almost all of us already support him.  Also, I think advertising in this kind of campaign is partly an act of desperation.

        "See me age 19 with some dumb haircut from 1960 moving to New York City " - the Walkmen

        by Biggreen80 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:26:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  no not animus but taking you guys for granted (none / 0)

          I just wish dkos would be a little open minded about the DNC chair and realize what Dean has done as a presidential candidate may not translate into a good DNC chair.

          It is like Jesse Jackson.  Dean is probably a better independent voice for the Democrats than a party head. Remember Ron Brown?

          by wdmosely on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:45:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh _please!_ (none / 0)

        If anything, advertizing here is arrogance.  If you haven't noticed, Dean isn't our flopping around for DNC support.  He's calling the voters, listening to them, going to canidates forums, and talking to the people that can actually get him elected.  Fowler is the one that's going on every talkshow that will take him.

        Additionally- people on this blog know who Dean is.  They have feelings about him one way or the other.  Many, like me, had no clue who Fowler was other than miscelanous Democratic operative.  The advertising is designed to move people who don't have an opinion.  90% of the people on this blog have a very set opinion of Dean.  He'd gain very, very little.

        Besides, didn't you know that Dean had already bought Kos off?

        Just another 2L in the court of life...

        by BrodyV on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:37:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No ads cannot equal arrogance (none / 0)

        Yeah, I'm not sure that the lack of advertising can be seen as arrogant. Come to think of it I'm not sure the lack of anything could be seen as arrogant - except maybe humility.

        Hoping for Obama

        by KingJames on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:37:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Dean has the best kind (none / 1)

        Where is Dean's advertising?

        of blog advertising, thousands of knowledgable volunteer supporters.
        I think that he played this correctly. This isn't a situation in which his extremely active base needed to, say, write letters to all the delegates. (That would have been overwhelming, annoying to the delegates and would have worked against him) I mean the guy has had to silence supporters when answering questions at the meetings.
        Fowler ran ads in order to garner as much grassroots support as he could; Dean's support is well known by every person voting.

        by colleen on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:03:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fowler advertising (none / 0)

          I kinda wonder why Fowler was advertising and thanking DailyKos.com. Aren't we all pretty much in the Dean camp. Wasn't it a waste of money? It's that kind of strategy that loses races, presidential, congressional.

          (Bush) believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. -- Colbert

          by makemefree on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 10:46:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Stupid and arrogant (none / 0)

    A politician is supposed to put a brave face on things, but this is silly. He could have been a little smarter in his comments. What elective office has Fowler won? None?

    Then show some brains.

    by stevegilliard on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:15:06 AM PDT

  •  I AM saying he should drop out (none / 0)

    Donnie Fowler is nowhere close to being in the league of someone like Tim Roemer or Martin Frost and they have long since dropped out. The only backing Fowler has now are those people so stubborn and pig headed about Dean that they would support ANY alternative. Fowler is the dying gasp of hack consultants and out of touch losers.

    Screw the anonymous backers leaking through DB4L Novak saying they won't give money because of the radical Deanies. Howard Dean was getting rave reviews by the Cato Institute and chaired the DGA not too long ago or don't you remember, hacks? Now a few holdouts want to swallow the elephant spew that "Dean is Crazy". The same people backstab Kerry for being weak, as though $200 million dollars of lies didn't land on him while a compliant press smiled and nodded. Wake up, stand up, and support a leader like Dean, not a pissant like Fowler.

    If Frost or Roemer want to do something in the Democratic Party I will support them because they see the forest for the trees. Fowler can go stick an orange up his candy ass. Maybe two.

    John McCain

    by joejoejoe on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:16:28 AM PDT

  •  DNC Chair and Fowler (4.00 / 5)

    The article by Ryan Lizza was so good I was squirming in my chair like Tori Amos on a piano bench! If you hate the "smoke-filled-room Democrats" and are a "reform Democrat," you must have enjoyed it, too.  But the Repug-Lite Democrats who controlled the smoke-filled rooms need to scour the tobacco stains from their fingers and get with the program.

    Those who accuse Dean of "blowing" his candidacy in Iowa should see the inherent flaws in the primary system as part of the cause.  And the dumbifying of the citizenry with regard to issues hasn't helped, either.  A century ago, people would become incensed if a candidate failed to speak for hours at a political rally or event, and were disappointed when a debate failed to provoke the looked-for exchange of verbal abuse between the candidates.  Now, as we saw with Clinton, if a statesperson speaks at any length, the media HOWLS about how long they talked, how many words, what is WRONG with them...

    As for Democrats and Progressives being fair and polite to those who would destroy them, surely the turn to Dean is a signal that that's about to end.  The Democrats seem to slowly be recognizing that "hey, this standing up to Republicans and neo-cons seems to pay off; our constituents seem to LIKE it when we don't drop to our knees with our mouths open for the opposition."  

    And hate me for this if you wanna, but I was glad Daschle lost.  I thought it sent a message to the rest of the Dems that playing nice-nice with the enemy can get you fired, not admired.  And Fowler's position in the DNC?  I suggest this one: scrunched down in a little ball on the floor as a footstool for Dean.

    Karen in Austin
    `tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant.  -   Beaumont and Fletcher

    Thence comes our true nobility by grace, It was not willed us with our rank and place. - Chaucer, not John McCain

    by Wife of Bath on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:17:23 AM PDT

  •  Fowler's just puffing his chest... (4.00 / 2)

    why is it such a big deal? He believes he's the right guy. You may disagree with him. Geez, I've heard "insults" worse than that.

    Dean isn't made of paper, hopefully. He's probably not worried about the comment in the least.

    by scorpiorising on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:18:34 AM PDT

  •  What is he supposed to say (none / 1)

    I mean come on, he's running for chair he should talk like he expects to win.

    First it's howling because people are running against Dean now it's but he's unopposed and Fowler should'nt say he is'nt going to win...

    How about the humility of realizing your going to win and just overlook a few comments every once in a while as opposed o knocking him and his Dad (who is an amazing man) when his only "transgression" is talking like he plans to win.

    by Show Me Dem on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:22:10 AM PDT

  •  Screw Fowler (4.00 / 2)

    I still haven't forgotten his unprofessional tell-all session with the press after getting booted from General Clark's campaign.

    What an ass.

    DTH

    by DTH on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:26:27 AM PDT

  •  It's the 'prompt for concession' interview ... (4.00 / 2)

    ... the lowest form of horserace reportage.

    The bad form in this picture is Woodruff's, not Fowler's. She was giving Kerry the same treatment about 10 days before Iowa. [I am not suggesting Fowler or anybody else is going to pull out a surprise win.]

    It's the loser's prerogative to declare himself a loser, and it's his prerogative to signal anything he wants to signal as regards conditional surrender.  For want of better ideas, your enterprising reporter eagerly jumps the gun and makes the call.

    The Great Obama might saw the lady in half, but he won't make the elephant disappear. The Confluence

    by RonK Seattle on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:30:11 AM PDT

    •  I agree that the bad form is Woodruff's (none / 0)

      It's a stupid, loaded question. There's no right way to answer. The anger I feel over things like this is that our media folks think that it's perfectly acceptable to do the "you're going to lose, are you okay with that?" line of questioning. I hated it when they pulled that shit with Kucinich, I hated it when they pulled it on Kerry, and I still hate it when they pull it on Fowler.

      Of course they're not okay with their loss yet! Because they haven't lost yet!

      And yes, yes, I know the guy really hasn't got a shot in hell, and I'm actually pretty glad of that, because I don't think he's ready for this kind of position either (or ever will be, for that matter). But he has every right to run for the position, stay in the race, and not shoot himself in the foot by officially or unofficially conceding anything because of a stupid, loaded question.

      Was it the most graceful way of handling the question? Maybe not. I just don't see why it's such a big friggin deal, though. It's not like he, you know, compared Dean to Osama or anything.

      Seems like a mighty minor thing about which to feel slighted, frankly. And I say that as a pretty longtime supporter of Dean.

      by Spit on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:02:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  215 and Climbing (none / 0)

    This is turning into such a Blowout with State DNC delegations hearing it from the party activists in huge numbers. Meeting after meeting with Dean being favored by 95% plus...frankly, Fowler is now an after thought and it's on to the real work. The election of Dean is a powerful symbol but the Work means we have to perform. On a personal note my license plate is still on baby!

    aw dangit..can't seem to copy a jpg from the pic files to here..someone instruct me!

    Let your hopes, not your hurts, shape your future.

    by philinmaine on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:33:31 AM PDT

    •  This may work (none / 0)

      Someone shared these instructions with me for posting an image on Kos:

      To insert images you may want to upload the images to an image server such as http://photobucket.com/

      They'll provide you with a link. Now copy that link and paste it in your post, using the following html tag:  

      I haven't tried it yet so I don't know if it works.

      Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

      by mini mum on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:42:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  correction (none / 0)

        the poster above tried to display the html tag by typing it. that won't work. the computer thinks you're trying to display an image w/o a link to that image and it gets confused.

        (img src="filename.format")

        where the )'s are replaced by >'s. additionally, the "filename," if you're linking to something on the internet, must include the full url, so it has to be http://www.website.com/filename.format. obviously the format is .jpg or .gif or whatever you're using.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

        by Addison on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:52:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you v. much (none / 0)

          As I noted the advice was forwarded by another Kossack and I have not tried it yet.  I will keep your advice handy the first time I attempt to include an image.

          Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

          by mini mum on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:07:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Still confused (none / 0)

          I have a pic I want to insert in a comment on kos...how do i do that? I've tried copying but then when I go to paste, not an option...what are the step by step instructions for pasting a photo...and Thanks! Phil the idiot poster

          Let your hopes, not your hurts, shape your future.

          by philinmaine on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 10:25:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  it was arrogant and "smart-alecky" (none / 0)

    What has this guy accomplished compared to Dean?

    "Dean should be his Exec Dir" ! the nerve!

    Does he [or his backers] seriously think that he has the grassroots support that Dean does?

    Interesting, the TNR article said the DNC leaked the Mich audit--hmmm...

    How does he get on Al Franken and Inside Politics in one day?

    The ABD crowd is still at it--I guess they won't give up until it's over.

    A Suicidal Selection
    With Dean as party chairman, the Democrats wouldn't need enemies.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait4feb04,0,4714338.column?coll=la-news-comme nt-opinions

    Chait's bio:
    Jonathan Chait is a senior editor at The New Republic, where he has worked since 1995

    Fla will be blue...

    by skywalker on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:35:19 AM PDT

    •  Here's a blog meme to start (none / 0)

      Lets create the Chait/Lizza DNC Memorial fund.

      If you have a "The New Republic"(ans) subscription, cancel it and donate the value to the DNC. Maybe when Chait has to scramble for a real job, he might lose the snotty elitism.

      by ElitistJohn on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:55:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fowler == jerkoid... (none / 1)

    Don't know what that dude's deal is.  Heard he was from SC and thought 'SC'?!  What does SC have to do with Dem politics?

    In any case - his presentation (25:30) was truly awful.  Dude's bought and paid for.  Who exactly is this dude that thinks he can just waltz in and pretend like he's actually done some work for somebody.  I'm sorry, what does the world owe you, fuckwit?

    Dude's talking about changing the game and he's a legacy candidate?!

    Dude's kickin it in Silicon Valley for a few years and we're all supposed to get on our knees and thank him for telling us that there's this thing called 'the blogosphere'?!

    The rest of the presentations were generally not-so-great, but Fowler's sense of entitlement was ... just unbelievable.

    Memo to Donnie "my daddy, the former DNC Chair, had nothing to do with me being here tonight, I swear" Fowler - you are the kind we're trying wrestle the party away from.

    He deserves this vitriol for preaching such garbage - wasting my time - 6 minutes I'll never get back.  I still got dirt under my fingernails.  Woe is me, brutha.  Woe is me.

    by shmooth on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:39:58 AM PDT

  •  Vice-Chairs (none / 0)

    Then start talking about the back door dealings on thes already!!

    The most important word in the language of the working class is `solidarity.'--Harry Bridges, longshore union leader

    by Bendygirl on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:45:07 AM PDT

  •  Smart ass remarks (none / 0)

    Fowler has a history of being thin-skinned, arrogant and boastful. Anyone hear him get irritated with Al Franken's gal yesterday? If you get that way on national radio to your core audience what do you do to the entrenched structure at the DNC that any Chair has to win over to get anything done.

    All more of the same. Empty shirt.

    Where I come from it's the ultimate insult:
    All hat, no cattle. That's Fowler.

    Just a red meat eating Democratic dawg...frontpaging at The Democratic Daily

    by BigDog04 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:46:56 AM PDT

  •  Is Fowler a Republican? (none / 0)

    Seems to me Donny Fowler is exhibiting the same kind of arrogant bully and bluster which is so popular today among conservatives.  Say what you want, lie if it suits you, pretend something's true that isn't... all in the great good cause of...  MOI. ME.  NUMERO UNO.

    Do we want this to spread within the Democratic Party?

    by Frijol on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 08:48:20 AM PDT