Daily Kos

Federal Reserve Apparently Disowns Alan Greenspan

Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 09:02:31 PM PDT

Update [2005-3-3 0:2:31 by Armando]: From the diaries by Armando. I am especially interested in two things here- (1) Is there a split between Greenspan and the Fed on SS?; (2) When Greenspan has spoken on his own behalf only, what has he endorsed? The 2001 tax cuts come to mind, to keep Congress from spending the surplus he said. Ha! One last point - Greenspan was on the SS Commission in 1982-3 that pushed through the big payroll tax hike - in order to save Social Security then, or so they said. Now Greenspan tells us that that was a complete fraud? There really is no Trust Fund? If that's true what Greeenspan is saying is he supported the most regressive shift in tax burden - on to working and poor Americans and off of the rich - in the history of the nation. That's a hell of a thing.

What on earth is going on here? Alan Greenspan testified before Congress today about the supposed financial crisis on the way, and tried to place the blame on squarely on Social Security obligations.  He also talked about a number of fiscal restraints that Congress had imposed in the 1990's but left basically unmentioned the effect of the ridiculous Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, the staggering costs of the Iraqi War, and the rising expenditures under the Bush regime on corporate welfare for his political donors.  In other words, Mr. Greenspan basically got up in front of Congress and acted as a shill for George Bush, in a way that should embarrass the supposedly independent Federal Reserve Board.  

But one aspect of Mr. Greenspan's testimony today was largely ignored or glossed over by the headline writers -- Mr. Greenspan made his remarks on his own behalf rather than as Fed. Chairman.   This is a fairly unusual occurrence; Mr. Greenspan seems to testify expressly on his own his own behalf only when the Bush Administration wants him to push a policy initiative that's in trouble, to shift blame from Bush for a bad economy, or to predict good economic times are just around the corner.

Why did Mr. Greenspan testify only on his own behalf? Did the Federal Reserve Board refuse to be associated with what basically amounted to an attempt by a rabidly partisan Chairman to wade into a political controversy in an economically irresponsible way?  And regardless, why does Mr. Greenspan, private citizen, get a Congressional microphone?  It would be nice to hear some answers to these questions.

[Update: The diary's been updated to reflect that fact that Greenspan has testified on his own behalf before, but not very regularly. The comments also now have links to that testimony, which seem to show a pattern of when the Chairman testifies on his own behalf.]

[Update 2: There does seem to be at least one big difference between Greenspan's personal views and those of Board. Greenspan favors privitizing Social Security.

Two weeks ago, Mr. Greenspan testified on behalf of the fed and did not endorse private accounts, saying only:

"Beyond the near term, benefits promised to a burgeoning retirement-age population under mandatory entitlement programs, most notably Social Security and Medicare, threaten to strain the resources of the working-age population in the years ahead. Real progress on these issues will unavoidably entail many difficult choices. But the demographics are inexorable, and call for action before the leading edge of baby boomer retirement becomes evident in 2008."

Today, Mr. Greenspan, speaking on his own behalf, said:

"In my view, a retirement system with a significant personal accounts component would provide a more credible means of ensuring that the program actually adds to overall saving and, in turn, boosts the nation's capital stock. The reason is that money allocated to the personal accounts would no longer be available to fund other government activities and--barring an offsetting reduction in private saving outside the new accounts--would, in effect, be reserved for future consumption needs."]

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  •  Tim (4.00 / 2)

    Can you pin down when, if ever Greenspan has testified on his own behalf before and how many times speaking on behalf of the Fed. IF this can be solidified, I'd like to promote it to the front.

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:34:34 PM PDT

    •  I'll run a few more Google searches (4.00 / 42)

      I've reviewed about ten other statements from Greenspan and they've all been on behalf of the Board, but I'll run another search specifically for testimony in his personal capacity.  

      Bringing the country together by turning every state Blue. Bluest State

      by Tim from VA on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:39:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  typical greenspan (4.00 / 21)

      I believe all his testimony comes with a disclaimer that he is speaking for himself. Fed policy is set by the Open Market Committee of the Federal Reserve, of which he is a member. Because of the position he hold as President of the Federal Reserve it is thought his words may have some  significance and may signal furture changes in Fed policy. This can move the bond and stock markets. He makes it clear in his opening statements that his words are his own and do not reflect the official view of the Fed.

      That said, Greenspan is an idiot. I traded UST bonds for ten years and he is not respected by wall street traders. His position gives him a lot of power - and that is what they respect, his power, not the man. He has been all washed up for years but politicians are too afraid to let him go cause he is identified with prospertiy, ironically, of the Clinton era. Politicians think he is a talisman of good fortune. Greenspan of course plays up on this as much as possible. He likes the power and prestige that comes with his position.

      Greenspan is, has been, and always will be a conservative idealogue. He played along with Clinton cause Clinton was serious about cutting the deficit. His heart lies in cutting taxes though, no matter what, and when Bush came into office he started warning politicians about budget surpluses and debt reduction - as if the US can have too strong a balance sheet. What a jerk.

      •  Washed Up? And how! (4.00 / 6)

        Greenspan advised people to get adjustable rate mortgages because rates were going to go up.

        That isn't just bad advice: it's insanely bad advice. It's like telling people to eat lard because cookies are fattening.

      •  Greenspan is a greedy leech (3.75 / 4)

        He has robbed from the poor with his 1982 "SS reform plan" and now he's slowly letting out the truth, the rich masters never planned on saving that money for the middle class who paid it, this has been their pot of "mad money" to fund all sorts of extravagant tax cuts for the rich and wasteful, cruel wars.

        Greenspan is as evil as Bush, he has just gotten even more of a free ride from the RWCM.  Just imagine the US government defaulting on Treasury Bonds- what a recipe for financial meltdown, yet that's what the wing-nuts and Greenslime are suggesting for the SS bonds.

        The curtain has been pulled aside for those of us who are paying attention, how can we spread the word to the complacent masses?

      •  Greenspan has gone to the highest bidder his whole (none / 1)

        career. Once upon a time he was a shill for the RIAA - fronting the absurd claim that copyright holders (read major media corporations) have a right to sue equipment manufacturers and their customers to collect damages for phantom profits they have lost assuming people had bought pre-recorded cassette tapes instead of recording them from their own LPs. He can make a sedulous argument for any rip off you care to pay him for - which is why he is so beloved of the plutocrats.

        The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings. -- Julius Caesar, I.ii.

        by semiot on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:40:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He really said nothing new (none / 0)

        He states that money would in effect be reserved for future consumption.  

        How much will be reserved?  For whom will it be reserved?  Who will be doing the future consumption?  

        I think he is intentionally vague.  It's the truth, just leaving off the last half of each sentance.

        the new accounts--would, in effect, be reserved for future consumption needs of the government.

        When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come? With your hands on your head - Or on the trigger of your gun : The Guns of Brixton

        by nonoose on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 09:00:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Greenspan wants consumption tax (none / 0)

      http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050303/D88JI49G0.html
      Just great:  the poorer you are the more tax you pay.  I hope I don't have to wait too long before I visit his grave to have a good long pee.
  •  Very interesting! (none / 0)

    you're right that this deserves some attention.
    Recommended.
  •  Newspaper Headlines (4.00 / 6)

    The supposedly liberal Washington Post gives the substance of Mr. Greenspan's testimony lead billing and treats it as though it is the official position of the Federal Reserve.  The NY Times is slightly less inflammatory about the substance of the testimony, but still downplays the fact that Greenspan was speaking only for himself.  

    Bringing the country together by turning every state Blue. Bluest State

    by Tim from VA on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:37:44 PM PDT

    •  Greenspan is VERY conservative. (none / 0)

      Greenspan's policies have disadvantaged working people all his professional life.  Before he was Fed chairman, he headed up the Social Security Commission that brokered the 1983 compromise in which people since that time have been paying higher payroll taxes supposedly to prepare for the Boomers' retirement.  The surplus is used to buy special US Treasury bonds that mature as the Boomers retire and the funds are needed, just as a private pension system would have done.

      But it did not take a genius to know that Congress could never keep their hands off the money, and so they started to spend it, little by little.  The process accelerated dramatically under Bush, who is running up a crushing burden of debt for Gen X and the following generations, while talking about the need to cut their benefits.

      But wait, there's more!  After he became Fed Chairman, Greenspan kept interest rates too high, so that the recovery from the Reagan recessions was sluggish. Many people never recovered from the recessions of the early 1980's.  Working class incomes have been declining in real terms ever since.   In 1994 he raised interest rates so clumsily that he spooked the stock and bond markets.  Then he mismanaged credit during the dot-com boom so that we were awash in credit in 1999 and then the market crashed in 2000, and was kept down too long.  And he encouraged Bush's tax cuts to get rid of the surplus (the one needed for Social Security) in 2001, setting the stage for the current deficits.

      He always says that spending cuts are needed, because he doesn't believe in public sector spending.  He is an Ayn Rand disciple.  He said yesterday that tax increases would be bad for the economy, when gentle tax increases as were done in 1992 and 1993 brought down the deficit and ushered in almost a decade of prosperity.

      He has consistently been on the side of transfering wealth to the wealthy and making things more difficult for the middle and working class.  It is probably correct that people revere him because he is associated with prosperity of the Clinton years, but his policy choices have been a real disaster for the middle and working classes.  

      John McCain--he's not who you think he is.

      by Mimikatz on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 10:01:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Greenspans testimony STUNK to high heaven (4.00 / 6)

    The problem is the Bush's Red-ink Republican debt, a problem that we have right now.  

    He's on the pay roll, or Andrea Mitchell is.

    Recommended!

    "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" - Barack Obama

    by pacified on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:40:20 PM PDT

    •  It was an obvious shill (none / 0)

      That guy lost all credibility.  It makes it that much more dangerous now, because thew orld won't trust anything that guy say anymore.

      All economic policy hinges on Bush.

      Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

      by fugue on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:05:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Alan Greenspan (3.83 / 6)

        Is and has always been a right wing whore ever since his younger days when he was in the inner circle of right wing fruit loop Ayn Rand.  

        In his morally crippled universe, any program that keeps people out of poverty is unaffordable.

        In the late 1990s he complained about "asset inflation," (stocks increasing in value at a far faster rate than their real worth), but did nothing to stop it because it helped the rich.  In 2004 he kept interest rates artificially low in order to help the Bush stay in office.  

        Reappointing Greenspan to the Fed was one of Clinton's 3 biggest mistakes (along with pulling out out stops (including to campaign for republicans who supported it) for NAFTA and putting the economic screws to Russia in the early 90s.)

        •  Half Right (4.00 / 5)

          Alan Greenspan has always been a small government conservative, but that's not a position that is, by definition, compatible with the private-account social security model that BushCo is floating. There's an intellectual dishonesty here that is comparable to his "irrational exuberance" statement.

          One almost has to wonder whether BushCo has leverage on Mr. Greenspan. Maybe Jeff Gannon ...

          The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

          by wystler on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 09:13:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  BushCo leverage on Greenspan (none / 1)

            Of course they have him by his balls.

            Remember that bush-1 lost because of Clinton's "It's the economy stupid" campaign.  Greenspan has been blamed for this ever since.  His "irrational exhuberance" speech was just one of his many attempts to derail Clinton's prosperity.  His balanced budget rhetoric was aimed at hamstringing a DEMOCRATIC President.  How else can you explain his sudden shift from fiscal responsibility to supporting the irresponsible bush* tax cuts.

            I am here to represent the democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

            by Josiah Bartlett on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 05:30:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Explaining Greenspan (none / 0)

              It's not really a hard concept. Alan Greenspan is a small-government traditional conservative.

              Taken in a vacuum, that type of person would tend to favor cutting taxes. Greenspan in his next sentence might well state that the budget deficit is awful, but he's part of a group that believes slashes in government outlays is the solution.

              (I'd vehemently disagree ...)

              The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

              by wystler on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 09:09:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Don't forget (3.50 / 2)

          Clinton also signed that egregious telecom act that has brought us to where we are today.
    •  How does the plan add to national savings? (3.60 / 5)

      We're going to have to borrow God knows how many trillions of dollars to finance the start-up costs.  Does that add to national savings, or national debt?

      That huge rise in debt will be yet another strong upward push on interest rates, which will damage the economy still further.  How do people save in a crappy economy?

      Even discounting deleterious economic effects (for the sake of argument only...) how long will it take for savings in the plan to equal the money borrowed to finance it, thus achieving savings neutrality?  Nobody knows, but decades is safe to assume.

      Greenspan isn't stupid.  He's intellectually dishonest and partisan, but he's not stupid.  If he believed in what he said, he'd be saying it in his official capacity.  I wonder what gave him the idea that he could be two people in his public pronouncements: Fed Chairman and Al down the street?

      Hanoi didn't break John McCain, but Washington did.

      by Dallasdoc on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:10:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There are so many on the payroll (3.73 / 15)

      you couldn't begin to count them.  THAT is where many of the billions and billions of dollars "approved" by Congress over the last three years have gone:  toward, simply and without any compunction or shame on their part, buying people off, getting them on the payroll, or shutting them up.

      And it's not just people.  It's leaders of nations, and diplomats, and military representatives.  They're all getting action from our treasury.  (And that's not even mentioning Halliburton, KBR, et al.)  

      The Bush adminstration has basically been robbing the American people blind through the pretexts of the Iraq conflict.  There is little to no accountability over there for what gets spent, where it goes, and who is in charge of it.

      Of the couple of hundred billion (I might be off on that figure) allocated in the last two or so years for the "reconstruction" portion of the Iraq war, how much exactly has been actually spent on "reconstruction"?  Reports show that barely more than 5 billion has actually been spent.  That leaves scores of billions of dollars for Bushco to wave under people's noses, slip under tables, and stuff down their gullets.  

      That's how so many shill for the worst president in US history.  It's because they are getting paid to do it, and we'll never know how.

    •  Red-ink Republican (none / 0)

      Now THAT's a phrase we've got to adopt.

      Use it consistently.  Use it often.

      A 4 for you!

  •  Extremely Interesting (none / 0)

    Excellent catch!

    A "4" AND a Recommend for you.

    No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. ~Edward R. Murrow

    by mlkisler on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:40:29 PM PDT

  •  Good and Interesting Catch (none / 0)

    I am now wondering if a Fed Chairman has ever testified on his own behalf.

    "You think you can intimidate me? Screw you. Choose your Weapon." Eliot Spitzer

    by bonddad on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:43:47 PM PDT

  •  Greenspan Represents capital! (4.00 / 16)

    Tim:

    Good question.

    I don't know who he spoke for today, but I can tell you for certain who he represents - capital.

    Neither Greenspan nor the Fed. Res. (nor most members of congress for that matter) represent the American people.  

    You may recall that in 1983, it was Dr. Greenspan who convinced congress to raise payroll taxes to insure social security would be there for the Baby Boomers.

    Then, Bushwacko inherits a $4.7 trillion projected surplus, and Greenspan supports his immoral tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations.

    Now that the surplus has been turned into massive deficits because of Bush tax cuts and the reach of Empire, Greenspan says we need to get the deficit under control by gutting social and Medicare.

    None of this should come as a surprise to anyone. This reverse Robin Hood economic B/S has been "raining" on our heads since at least 1981.

    Four more years of this re-distribution of income and wealth upwards should just about finish the job of hollowing out America.

    Who needs a middle class anyway?  Can't the lazy bastards eat cake?

    rok for dean

    •  Many credit Greenspan for the 90's success... (3.50 / 6)

      ...Hell, before the "internets" came along, I believed it. I can't remember where I heard it, but someone pointed out that Greenspan's "fiscal conservativeness" during the 90's was simply because his right wing handlers wanted to make sure he kept spending limits in place on President Bill Clinton. They didn't want to risk anything like "Socialized Medicine" being enacted or any other "Social" programs that might empower the people and weaken the "Wealthy Elites" control over them.

      Of course, Clinton was much better than they ever expected and I am sure they thank him for the windfall profits they were able to reap, at his expense, after Bush was maneuvered into the White House. I wonder how many of the business people who backed Bush will rue the day, since probably only a few of those businesses will survive the coming crunch?

      The sleep of reason produces monsters.

      by Alumbrados on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:46:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I remember being amazed (3.66 / 3)

        during the 90's that whenever Greenspan pronounced on the economy, he seemed to be eerily clairvoyant. If he warned of a steep drop in the market, sure enough, the market took a dive. When he predicted rising profits, or advised buying mutual funds or whatever; it all came true. Every time. Others  - acquaintances and friends - noticed this too, but had no more of an explanation than I did. The man seemed omniscient,God-like. Was he driving the fates? Were fortunes dependent on what he said? I'd like to know if any of you observed this.

        It began to infuriate me. It was inexplicable. I thought that he must regard himself as the most powerful man in the world. I still don't understand it.

        Now, he's such an obvious whore for Bush it's clear he's just another little man who's good at economic matters. How much influence do you believe he wields today? Does this recent development mean he's lost his magic -- his credibility? And if it does, what happens?

      •  the 90's (none / 0)

        The painful medicine that squashed inflation was initiated by Carter's Fed chairman, Paul Volker. I credit him more than Greenspan. I think what really helped the economy was Clinton's balancing the budget by raising taxes on the rich and cutting military spending as well as a domestic stimulous package at the start of his presidency. What did Greenspan have to do with that?
  •  Another time (4.00 / 7)

    Documented at:

    http://www.thadeusandweez.com/cam01/020401.html

    Dated Feb 4, 2001.

    "Earlier, Greenspan -- speaking only on his own behalf -- said that he favors a tax cut to keep the nation's surplus from growing."

    "...[one] must still have Chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." Nietzsche

    by ATinNM on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:46:59 PM PDT

    •  Excellent! (none / 0)

      Tim, if that was the ONLY other time. I think you should edit your diary and feature how well THAT advice turned out.  

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:49:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  O/T but a goodie (4.00 / 4)

      What one finds on the internets ...

      From:  http://www.cbpp.org/2-26-01tax3.pdf

      Date:  Feb 26, 2001

      "The currently projected budget surpluses are sufficently large that, if the actually materialize, the publicly held debt would be eliminated in the coming decade."

      The paper then goes on to discuss if Social Security could safely own private assets as there wouldn't be any public debt for it to invest or own.

      My, my, only four years ago we were projected to be out of debt.

      "...[one] must still have Chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." Nietzsche

      by ATinNM on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:58:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He's got a problem (4.00 / 10)

        The current deficit is unsustainable in the technical economic sense that its perpetuation will trigger a rise in the real interest rate and increase the debt service charge to the point where bankruptcy is the only solution -- unless -- (a) taxes are raised, (b) social security defaults.  Mr. G. prefers the latter solution.  His board understand the significance of an SS default on US credit rating, and do not prefer that solution.  So he spoke on his own behalf as the Ayn Rander he is.
  •  I'm afraid it's rather common . . . (3.50 / 2)

    Here's a link to a bunch of speeches given by members, including Greenspan, where they make the same caveat from time to time.  http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/testimony/2002/default.htm - check out Sept. 12, 2002, Jan. 24, 2002, etc.
    •  OK (none / 0)

      Tim:

      Here's what I suggest - take the testimony supporting the tax cuts in 2001 - to insure the surplus would notbe spent and juxtapose with this one.

      That would be pretty damn effective as well.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:00:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think there is a pattern (4.00 / 7)

        I've commented on it below.  Looks like the pattern is, he doesn't do it often but is available when Bush really needs him, like when a push for the tax cuts was needed, or the need to blame the economy on September 11, or the need to boost election year fortunes by talking about massive growth.    

        Bringing the country together by turning every state Blue. Bluest State

        by Tim from VA on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:18:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Will you edit to that effect? (none / 0)

          As it is, I think it is thin, but that point plus the fact that when he does do it disasters happen are the strongest points now.

          Not to tell you what to do, but as is, I'm a little leery about promoting.  But if we hit those highlights, then definitely.

          Everybody dies alone.

          by Armando on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:37:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  So he functions as the money man (4.00 / 2)

          equivalent of those heightened terror alerts when Shrub gets into economic trouble.  NICE! We are always being played by this administration, aren't we?  

          "Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen." Mort Sahl

          by maggiemae on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:06:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I believe there is a lot to that point, too. (none / 0)

            This is a theme worth exploring.  Let's not forget, however, that Mr. G. is on his way out.  The real question is who succeeds him.  Short of a Wall Street revolt (always possible) Bush will accept nothing less than a yes-man to the Presidency.  There are plenty of potential candidates. I think that, even more than the Supreme Court nominations, this one can be the donnybrook that breaks the Administration.  Their right wing will want an inflationist, the Conservatives will want a banker, and so will the international money markets.  Assuming the financial crash hasn't occurred by next spring, that appointment will raise in a sustained fashion and to fever pitch, discussion of all the fiscal imbecilities of the Republican Right.
            •  Like treasury (none / 1)

              no one smart enough to qualfy for the job will accept it. Everyone in the financial world suspects that the next great depression is going to happen on  Bush's watch because he has no sense of fiscal policy and none of them want to share the blame. The search for a replacement for Snow went on for weeks with the white house staff dissing him every day. In the end they couldn't find a replacement. Bet that happens at the Fed.

              "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

              by johnmorris on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 06:57:13 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Feb 2001 versus Oct 2001 (none / 0)

        there's a pretty big thing that happened between that.  Bush policy changed and Greenspan stopped saying those things.

        Fascism is indistinguishable from any parody thereof.

        by mbkennel on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 10:40:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  His objection (none / 1)

        was not that the surplus would be spent it was that the debt would be paid down so fast under the Clinton plan that government money would begin to intrude in the orderly course of the markets. I think that's pretty close to his words though G is obscure asking for the salt. Anyway, it was pure bullshit.  

        "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

        by johnmorris on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 06:52:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  not to mention (none / 0)

      since it's posted on the Federal Reserve website, it certainly doesn't seem as if the Fed is disowning Greenspan or his comments. if all there is is Greenspan's cavaet at the beginning of the speech, i'd say more is need to make anything of this.
    •  That is a Record (none / 0)

      damn, and it ONLY took them just 3yrs, + or - a month or two, to break us.
      (shak'n my head) they're damn near as good as my ex.... ; )

      Hell, it even took her 5yrs...

      "who is gonna make it..we'll find out in the long run" (eagles)

      by infidelpig on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:08:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Very Interesting Pattern (4.00 / 13)

    I've looked a little more closely and a very interesting pattern seems to be developing.  First, it looks like Mr. Greenspan hasn't testified "for himself" very often.  Second, it looks like when he does, the timing of the testimony seems tied to the Bush Agenda:

    Pushing for Tax Cuts Immediately after Bush Inauguration

    Again pushing for Bush Tax Cuts Early in 2001

    Explaining in early 2004 that "the U.S. economy appears to have made the transition from a period of subpar growth to one of more vigorous expansion"

    Blaming Poor Economy on "Attacks of September 11"

    Again Pushing for Bush Tax Cuts Early in 2001

    Bringing the country together by turning every state Blue. Bluest State

    by Tim from VA on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:13:18 PM PDT

    •  See irfo's comment (none / 1)

      2 weeks ago, when he talked SS, he spoke on behalf of the Fed. This time for himself. Maybe your word "disowned" is exactly right.  

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:15:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Paul O'Neill (none / 0)

      Anyone have a copy of the Suskind/O'Neill book handy? It talks in some detail about these earlier testimonies. It might provide some indication of whether it was a strategic move or not.

      At the very least, it gives you background on how Greenspan was going against his better judgement.

      This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

      by emptywheel on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:09:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Quotes from O'Neill's book (none / 0)

      January 6, 2001
      We're not going back into the red, Greenspan said. For these two, it was a blood oath. Greenspan felt the surplus needed to be cleared away. There was currently $3.2 billion in federal debt that required interest payments and created a drag on the economy. Add to that the large surplus locked in dusty, low-yielding vehicles, like government bonds, and there would be additional drag on the economy. On the other hand, if the surplus was left unattached, Congress and the President would find a way to spend it.
      [snip]
      Fine--reduction of debt is a priority--but what happens to the big item, the tax cut, if the surpluses evaporate? he asked. "Triggers," O'Neill said.

      "Think you could find a way to mention triggers in one of your upcoming pronouncements?" Greenspan smirked. "Why me?" "Because I thought of it," O'Neill said...

      February 16, 2001

      O'Neill knew there was a mess brewing with the dollar, but communing with Greenspan after the long flight helped redirect him to what he considered the "essentials": the economy's gentle sag--...and then the way "trigggers" had managed to get a foothold in Congress despite the fact that everything in Alan's January tesimony had been eclipsed by  his recommendation for tax cuts.

      March 15, 2001

      [Greenspan]"I'm not sure that a tax cut of that size and long schedule is appropriate without some mechanism of conditionality" he said. "These surpluses, or the perception of surpluses, is proving to be surprisingly corrosive to the maintenance of spending discipline." [snip] White House can't be too happy anout all this," Greenspan said finally...

      There are more descriptions of O'Neill/Greenspan conversations, but not appearing around the time of Greenspan personal testimony. At any rate, this suggests Greenspan's priorities were different than what he was testifying them to be.

      This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

      by emptywheel on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 04:51:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But what does Andrea Mitchell have to say? (n/t) (none / 0)

    "The key to security is public information." -- Margaret Chase Smith

    by Drawn4Quarters on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:14:41 PM PDT

  •  I was at the Chicago Fed on Friday (none / 0)

    and they weren't disowning greenspan.
    •  But (none / 0)

      are they endorsing his view on SS reform?  Why did he speak on behalf of the Fed 2 weeks ago and not today?

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:19:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Legally mandated Federal Reserve report to Congres (none / 0)

        Armondo, there is a semi annual report on the economic outlook that the Fed must present to each house of congress. The authorization for this is called Humphrey-Hawkins and when the Fed Chairman testifies to congress he is presenting the official Fed report for this legally mandated testimony. That is what happened two weeks ago.

        Today it was just another of the myriad committees that called Greenspan in to testify on his own behalf.

      •  This might help (none / 1)

        I'm a klutz at this sort of thing, but this may be the answer, or at least a clue.

        The section of the Federal Reserve Act pertaining to appearances to Congress states:  

        (a)   Appearances before the Congress.

        (1)   The Chairman of the Board shall appear before the Congress at semi-annual hearings, as specified in paragraph (2),  regarding--

        (A)   the efforts, activities, objectives and plans of the Board and the Federal Open Market Committee with respect to the conduct of monetary policy; and

        (B)   economic developments and prospects for the future described in the report required in subsection (b).

        (2)   The Chairman of the Board shall  appear--

        (A)   before the Committee on Banking and Financial Services of the House of Representatives on or about February 20 of even numbered calendar years and on or about July 20 of odd numbered calendar years;

        (B)   before the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate on or about July 20 of even numbered calendar years and on or about February 20 of odd numbered calendar years; and

        (C)   before either Committee referred to in subparagraph (A) or (B), upon request, following the scheduled appearance of the Chairman before the other Committee under subparagraph (A) or (B).

        (b)   Congressional report. The Board shall, concurrent with each semi-annual hearing required by this section, submit a written report to the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on Banking and Financial Services of the House of Representatives, containing a discussion of the conduct of monetary policy and economic developments and prospects for the future, taking into account past and prospective developments in employment, unemployment, production, investment, real income, productivity, exchange rates, international trade and payments, and prices.

        Greenspan's Feb. 16, 2005 testimony appears to be one of the semi-annual appearances described in (a)(1).  And that section seems -- to my untutored eyes -- to authorize him only to (A) describe the activities and objectives of the Board and the FOMC, and (B) comment on the Board's report.  In other words, in those testimonies he is confined to speaking for the Board and the FOMC and to representing their views.

        (a)(2)(C), however, allows him to return upon request to give further testimony, and as far as I can see, that testimony is not limited in the way the testimony describe in (a)(1) is.  So on those occasions, he can speak "on his own behalf" -- say whatever he damn well pleases, whatever the Board or the FMOC thinks.

        Experts, please:  am I reading this right?

        What I find peculiar is that the Federal Reserve Chair can testify to Congress both as Federal Reserve Chair and on his own behalf.  I wouldn't be surprised if the "on my own behalf" testimonies were in the context of these requested returns, if in fact they authorize the Chair to speak with the authority of his/her position but without being bound to adhere to what his held by the Board or FOMC.

        •  Looks about right (none / 1)

          There's probably nothing illegal about his whoring here (abusing the Congressional hearing privilege), and the Fed may not have disowned him, but it's still important if it can be shown that:

          a) his opinion differs from when he represents the Fed to when he represents himself.  then people can recognize that he is full of shit.

          or

          b) he is unwilling to make these statements about SS while on the record, then there might be some other legality we don't know about.  maybe something about supporting a proposition that he knows to be economically false.

    •  Not surprising (none / 0)

      The Chicago Fed is stuffed with Republican/Libertarian economists.  They won't even use their own models to speak against government policy.
  •  Did he really say.... (4.00 / 6)

    I heard on the news that Greenspan said he couldn't predict what effect the extra $2 trillion in government borrowing to set up private accounts would have on the financial markets.

    Can I be Fed Chairman?  Because I have a pretty darn good idea....

    "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

    by Jim in Chicago on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:27:49 PM PDT

    •  I remember Bush saying when he (none / 0)

      got in office..how the stock market was over valued...does anyone else remember this?

      Will the elite be happy living behind gated communities in the potential meltdown? Peace now. -7.00, -2.92

      by mattes on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:14:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (none / 1)

        and :some: assumed Bush was trash talking the economy so that he could rescue it with................................................................................tax cuts.
        Economy strong? Tax cuts. Economy sux? Tax cuts. Peace dividend? Tax cuts.  War without end? Tax cuts. Win an election? Tax cuts. Lose an erection? Tax cuts. Etc.
  •  Thomas Oliphant of Boston Globe (none / 0)

    said on Air America Radio this morning that Greenspan is the 'fog machine' and that he was really going against Bush on Social Security.

    Perhaps, it will be repeated tonight, or someone has a transcript.

    This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

    by Agathena on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:33:29 PM PDT

    •  Here's what Greenspan said today (none / 0)

      "In my view, a retirement system with a significant personal accounts component would provide a more credible means of ensuring that the program actually adds to overall saving and, in turn, boosts the nation's capital stock. The reason is that money allocated to the personal accounts would no longer be available to fund other government activities and--barring an offsetting reduction in private saving outside the new accounts--would, in effect, be reserved for future consumption needs."

      Bringing the country together by turning every state Blue. Bluest State

      by Tim from VA on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:38:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Talk about fog! (3.33 / 3)

        'adds to overall saving'

        whose saving? not the personal account investor, the government.

        This saved money would not be used by government but will be reserved for the retirees?

        Looks like he is supporting the personal accounts, today.
        --
        On CNN just now, Barbara Boxer just said,

        "This privatization plan is sinking like a rock."

        Why can't Greenspan speak clearly like that?

        This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

        by Agathena on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:02:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You bet! Ultra Fog (none / 0)

          Note the first part of the mumble points to the advantage of personal savings (Greenspan's been on this one for some time: We Need To Save More!) and then the mumble moves to "future consumption."   Spend Spend Spend our way out of the recession, depression, panic...whatever.
          What he's trying to do is have it both ways--save save save and spend spend spend.  Either the US needs to increase the amount of individual savings (and we need to stop maxing our credit cards, buying second houses, or purchasing new appliances) OR we need to increase consumer spending to expand the economy? Which is it Alan????
        •  It's actually sensible. (4.00 / 5)

          What he means is that since the present SS trust fund is invested in "government bonds" which are not tradable, Congress could (and does) decide whether to consider them real assets and obligations or only 'virtual' ones which can fund other spending.

          Greenspan's real point is to make sure that Congress doesn't spend it before the true debts come due.    That's the true macroeconomic issue.

          Personal accounts may do this (as people would get very upset if they were actually siphoned off), but it is not necessary at all, and probably undesirable.

          The same effect, however, would be accomplished regardless of personal accounts, if the trust fund were allowed to invest in stocks on its own, as do large state employee pension funds, such as CalPERS.
          Given the actuarial accuracy and capabilities of a large fund, that would actually be less risky for a national program of such import as Social Security.

          The other problem with "personal accounts" is psychological---if people see "their own" money accruing in their own numbered account, they will invest less in their 401k etc.  On average, averge people directing their own accounts are poor investors---proven by extensive empirical surveys of 401k participants and investments.   Yes, they are too stupid to invest the money themselves (on average).

          There are three issues:

          1. making sure of the long-term ability to pay claims (actuarial and generational balance)

          2. limiting the tax burden on the working to a reasonable degree

          3. making sure Congress doesn't steal the money prematurely

          None requires personal accounts.  They do, however, require some stock market and investment of Social Security funds outside of the current "virtual bonds" (only an IOU claim on future tax revenues) into truly private instruments which can't be seized by an act of Congress.

          Fascism is indistinguishable from any parody thereof.

          by mbkennel on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 10:52:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Jackpot (none / 1)

            The same effect, however, would be accomplished regardless of personal accounts, if the trust fund were allowed to invest in stocks on its own, as do large state employee pension funds, such as CalPERS.  Given the actuarial accuracy and capabilities of a large fund, that would actually be less risky for a national program of such import as Social Security.

            A thousand times, thank you for saying this.  This is the policy reform Democrats should be proposing.  

            It would allow SS to draw a greater return than it currently does will hedging individual investors' risk of a market downturn.

            Private accounts may not be the answer, and we are likely to defeat them, but it is equally bad to pretend nothing is flawed at all with the current system.

          •  What "trust fund" are you talking about? (3.50 / 2)

            What on earth leads you folks into believing that Social Security is a trust fund? What trust fund protections are in place that would result in this conclusion? What characteristics does Social Security posess that might suggest that the Social Security account might indeed be a trust fund?

            I have not seen anything that even remotely suggests that Social Security is anyting other than a Treasury Account. If anyone can disprove this please, please step forward!

            Social Security would not be in such peril if only Congress had ensured that our social security taxes flowed into the treasury account and STAYED THERE! Instead it diverted the money elsewhere leaving behind what now seem to be worthless IOU's. Does Congress even leave enough behind to yeild the three percent of typical government  bonds? I suspect not.

            Yes, Social Security is in peril. Bush wants to default on the IOU's.

            •  It can't stay there (4.00 / 2)

              the money has to be held in some form, just like your savings account or the money in your stock certificates is not locked in a vault. The money is in Treasury Certificates based on the "Full Faith and Credit" of the US government. A default on these instruments would lead to a run on the bank as private and foreign investors cashed in their, clearly worthless, treasury bills and the economy would tank. Yes it is a claim on future taxes, as is every other government program in existence. This is the only one with a surplus on the books. Money is no longer gold coins in a box.

              "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

              by johnmorris on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:08:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It Can't Stay There (none / 0)

                A treasury account does not have the legal protections of a trust fund. It is not a trust fund. The T-Bills are not owed to us per se. We have no legal mechanism, that I know of, to force the government to redeem these certificates back to the social security treasury account for our benefit. As far as I know, the only thing that prevents the Executive or Legislative branches of government from reniging on the IOU's is public opinion AND the majority party in power.

                Now I could be wrong but, I don't think so.

                •  The treasury bills (none / 0)

                  held by the trust fund are a unique type of bill. They cannot be traded on the open market and are designated as Social Security bills. SS cannot sell the T Bills to any one but the federal government. Its a trust fund.

                  "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

                  by johnmorris on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:59:04 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Babble, Babble, Babble (none / 0)

        The only interpretation I can get from this, unless Alan is using "savings" in some wierd Randoid sense, is by allowing private accounts people will then put that money into saving accounts or CDs earning up to 2.5% per year, when the growth of the money supply is around 4.5% per year, and loose 2% per year in PPP.

        This Alsn calls "boosting the nation's capital stock."  This is what the rest of us call "a scam" and "a fraud."  

        And after 20, 30, or 40 years you can take your 27 cents (PPP) and not buy a cup of coffee.  

        "...[one] must still have Chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." Nietzsche

        by ATinNM on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:42:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  E Pluribus Unum... When They Need The Stats (4.00 / 2)

        "boosts the nation's capital stock" -Greenspan

        Therein lies the problem, "boosts the nation's capital stock." We're the richest nation on earth, but we also have the highest general wealth disparity. So while a privatization may ("may...") boost our national worth, no American in the lower 90th percentile of earnings will see a dime of that new cream, it'll rise to the top and stay there as shown by the exponential rise in both the US's overall wealth AND the wealth gap disparity. They can't suddenly be nationalistic and all "e pluribus unum" on our national wealth as if it's shared when in fact they're going all out to increase the rate at which the rich get richer and  the poor get poorer in some misguided view of capitalism, it's disingenuous.

        So maybe Greenspan believes what he's saying, and in his cloistered world believes that in terms of our GDP alone we're all in it together, but there's no reason for most American's to buy into their selective and self-serving nationalistic unity.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses | Buy M.I.A.'s Kala! (No, really. Please!)

        by Addison on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 09:48:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Greenspan's Gyrations (none / 0)

      The trifecta of obscurantism: Thomas Oliphant's Boston Globe oped Wed 2/22/05

      This is not for the moment an issue where the important division is between Democrats and Republicans or conservatives and moderate and liberals. Given current reality, the only significant division is among Republicans and conservatives, who control Congress and can begin to move a proposal forward if there ever were one.

      The divisions, however, involve fundamentals. There is disagreement about the nature of the problem. There is disagreement about whether payroll taxes alone should be on the table when income taxes loom as another issue. There is disagreement about whether so-called private investment accounts should be created by diverting current payroll tax revenue from paying current benefits. There is disagreement about whether one dime of additional debt should be taken on to finance mammoth transition costs. There is even disagreement about whether the purpose of change should be to shore up Social Security or end social insurance as the country has known it.

      Until Republican consensus emerges, which for the moment is doubtful, there is no reason for any of the party's congressional people to begin the Herculean task of legislating. The Democrats are not the obstacle here.

      That is why Alan Greenspan could be content to hide his message behind a delightful fog of subordinate clauses that managed to confuse the press, confuse the Republicans and confuse the Democrats -- the trifecta of obscurantism.

      God bless our tinfoil hearts.

      by aitchdee on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 11:26:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Greenspan is an asshole (none / 1)

    'Nuff said.

    We have met the enemy, and he is us. --Pogo (Walt Kelly)

    by d52boy on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:35:41 PM PDT

    •  Yes, he is. (none / 0)

      But I believe he once was honorable. He's speaking in foggy generalities now because- maybe because - he can't bring himself either to tell the ugly truth, or he has to satisfy Bush for the SS scheme. He's lost the courage to do either. If he weren't so old already, you might expect he'd think of suicide. If he's not technically committing a crime, he's certainly ethically suspect.
      •  Honestly (none / 1)

        by this point there's a possibility Alan doesn't remember what he may or may not have done 22 years ago.
        •  I think his mind is elsewhere... (none / 1)

          Perhaps he's thinking of his briefcase "code".  Or maybe he's just plumb tuckered out after a night in the sack with that other "legs in the air" journalist to whom he's married.

          I'm thinking of how Mr. G.  never mentioned SS when this country was FLUSH WITH SURPLUS.  If a problem exists (and there is serious doubt in my mind) then that problem ought to have been addressed then.

          Mr. G. can take his briefcase and his prognostications and kindly retire before he utterly disgraces himself before the financial world.  They are already discounting his statements... relying instead on actions their own economists and even the money traders see every day.

          He ought to retire, but he'll linger on.  Dems/Repubs will pay him homage like the grand poobah he thinks he is.  Reality is that in this global money market... he is only reacting to our own dismal situation.  His one hope is that the money lenders will continue to queue up to finance our deficit.  Mr. Greenspan, remember what happened last Sept: they didn't show up like they usually did.  That is YOUR legacy.

  •  O'Niell and Greenspan (none / 0)

       O'Niell wrote an editorial in the NYT's about how private accounts for SS had been his idea during the surplus days.  If you read O'Niell's book, he talks often about his long standing friendship with Greenspan and how they planned together how they wanted the economy to work. They had frequent meetings.  Greenspan must be speaking on his own behalf, as he and O'Niell cooked these things up together and not necessarily at the behest of the Fed.  Just two pals brainstorming together.

    Winning without Delay.

    by ljm on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:41:12 PM PDT

    •  Details (none / 0)

      They both came in believing something needed to be done long term. O'Neill fought Bush on tax cuts when he realized it would kill the surplus and make doing anything will social security more difficult--it's one of the things he got fired over. So it's not like this current bamboozle--borrowing money to make this happen--is their idea.

      This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

      by emptywheel on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:19:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Speaking on behalf of the whole Federal Reserve (4.00 / 2)

    Andrea Mitchell is a tomcat in the sack.
  •  I was listening to him in the car today (none / 0)

    and thought to myself,"Why do we listen to this guy?"

    We are not exactly in good financial shape, and have not been for some time, including the Clinton years.

    There is more to a healthy economy than GDP. I really wish that I studied a bit of econ so I could defend this intelligently, but maybe it is good that I did not study econ because if I did I might buy into all this BS.

    He has presided over the least beneficial financial booms in history, and he is treated like some kind of hero.

     

    Sharing and Caring are for Commies! They should be illegal. Drop by and support the Human Agenda

    by k9disc on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:45:32 PM PDT

    •  And he has (none / 1)

      actually done almost nothing in that time. After Volcker took the big knocks of raising interest rates and forcing a recession under Carter to bring inflation under control, Greenspan did nothing to curb the excesses of the Reagan Bush years. When Clinton came into office threatening to spend $16 billion dollars on economic stimulus Greenspan made a deal, quite public, that if Bill would forego the stimulus package and work on balancing the budget, Greenspan would keep interest rates low to stimulate the economy. When the entire conservative, market school economic world was screaming about incipient inflation he kept the deal, probably because he knew he was dealing with an Arkansas Lawyer who would whip out a stimulus package before the ink was dry on the welsh. So, essentially, Greenspan as chairman of the fed has sat quietly on his ass while CLinton saved the country. Now he comes out of hiding to help Bush screw it up. The man is a weasel.

      "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

      by johnmorris on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:33:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What is Greenspan talking about? (none / 1)

      He's a baffling guy. I give him major cred for fixing Social Security in the '80's and keeping inflation down for 20 years, but nothing he actually says ever makes any sense.

      Yesterday's speech in a nutshell:

      1. First it's the classic bait-and-switch, conflating the serious problems in Medicare with the non-existent SS "crisis".

      2. Next he postulates, wouldn't it be great if SS were a savings-based plan (with personal accounts) rather than pay-as-you go? Well duh, it would be great if I had $10 million in the bank and could pay my rent off the interest, but I don't, and neither does the US Gov't, and no amount of expenditure reductions are going to change that for either of us. And you know that, so why do you even bring it up?

      3. So, what about the real crisis -- the rise in medical costs? Mr. Greenspan's lame prescription: Maybe improvements in "information technology" will make things more efficient. Holy deus ex machina, do you have any idea what you're talking about? If so, please explain it to the rest of us. Last time I checked, medical costs were rising because of longer lifespans and expensive new drugs and procedures, not because of a lack of computers.

      Genius or doofus, I really can't figure it out.
  •  Maybe he has just lost touch (none / 0)

    with reality. Old dudes do go senile and Greenspan doesn't seem to talk much sense these days if he ever did.
  •  The boy is too old (none / 0)

    Greenspan has shown to be just part of the Propaganda machine that the repubs have used since day 1. It is amazing how far the Bush political infestation goes.
  •  Latest Bush schill... (none / 0)

    Is Greenspan on the payroll too?
    •  He must be (none / 0)

      How else would an incompetant who has overseen the destruction of our economy have survived. To repeat someone else: Why does anyone listen to him? It seems half the worlds bankers have just stopped taking him seriously.
  •  From another thread: (3.88 / 9)

    In his testimony Greenspan stated that diverting payroll taxes into the Social Security Trust Fund had merely allowed the government to run larger budget deficits.  Wasn't the Trust Fund created by the Greenspan Commission in 1983?  So, Mr. Greenspan and his bipartisan commission set up a mechanism to use (the Trust Fund) to make Social Security sound.  Now, when it is almost time to put the mechanism into practice, Greenspan starts contradicting himself saying how ineffective the concept is.  And whose idea was it to raid the trust fund to pay for tax cuts, among other deficit spending, as opposed to maintaining the true "lock box" idea?  In 1993, when the Trust Fund lock box was set up by Greenspan and his commission, who was responsible for allowing it to be raided, leaving future generations behind?

    It is quite obvious that Mr. Greenspan is not the apolitical, impartial economist that he pretends to be.  If he wasn't a Bush Administration supporter, then he would have said: "Include your war funding in your budget, and cease giving huge tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans.  Give the middle and lower class workers more money through wage increases, and more jobs will be created, thus growing the economy."  But it is clear that Mr. Greenspan is just another of the ideologues who hate Democratic programs that actually work, simply for ideological and political reasons.

    (this is a synthesis of comments from another thread)

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

    by rlharry on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:22:15 PM PDT

    •  Yep (4.00 / 2)

      Greenspan not only participated in the Trust Fund, he also instigated in the large jump in FICA payroll taxes during the Reagan Administration (doubled them I believe) so that Social Security would remain solvent through the baby boomers' retirement.

      What an asshole.

      I have my fears, but they do not have me - Peter Gabriel

      by badger on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:34:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  what this amounts to (4.00 / 3)

        If there is no trust fund (or if it is robbed), then the added payments into social security amounts to a regressive tax to pay off the deficit.  Since the income tax is progressive, this ends up being another way to cut taxes to the rich at the expense of those making less than 90K--nice Greenspan!
        •  Rob the poor- pay the rich (4.00 / 3)

          That is Greenspan's message, and he's been damn good at promoting over the years with able assistance from the RWCM.  What a complete pirate Greenslime is, he is all about protecting the rich and has taken more from the middle class than anyone else, now he's letting them know that it was all a scam, but what can they do- this schemer was never elected.
      •  Yep, and then he turned right around (none / 1)

        and supported Reagan's tax cuts for the rich, which could be supported only by drawing upon that trust fund.  And then he argued that given the perilous state of federal finances, SS could be saved only by cutting benefits (which his 1983 FICA increases were supposed to prevent the need for).  Then, when Clinton had reversed much of the damage caused by Reagan/Bush One's fiscal policies, Greenspan turned right around again and supported tax cuts for wealthy under Bush Two.  And, behold, once again he's for FICA increases or SS benefits cuts.  It's Greenspan's shell game, as Matt Yglesias has been saying for some time; use SS to redistribute money up to the wealthy while screwing the Great Society into the ground.
  •  2000 rate hikes by Greenspan to topple Clinton ? (4.00 / 11)

    I had always suspected that Greenspan's incessant rate hikes on the las 2 years of Clinton's term were aimed at making the economy "soft" before the 2000 election.

    A bad economy in 2000 would have made Bush's election a shoo in.

    It's like the economy was Greenspan's pinata to keep wacking until it burst and leaked all the votes to GOP.

    Wasn't it funny how after all those "highly urgent" tax hikes under Clinton he decided they weren't needed anymore under Bush, a mere 6 months later ?

    Too bad Clinton's economy was so healthy that Greenspan's poison pills only hit when HIS GUY was on the White House...

    And then, despite inflation going up fast, Greenspan suddenly lost his taste for avoiding it and kept rates low until 2004's election.

    He has always been a shill for Bush. We just didn't realize it till he got too obvious.

    The Permanent Republican Majority lasted about as long as The Thousand Year Reich

    by lawnorder on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:45:31 PM PDT

    •  You are absolutely right. (none / 1)

      And then after driving the rates down, he told everyone to hang onto (or get new) their adjustable rate mortgages, when all the world knew that interest rates had nowhere to go but up.  (Refinance now, folks, before it really gets ugly.)

      Can you sue him for giving bad advice when your mortgage goes to 15%?

      "If God keeps hanging out with politicians, it's gonna hurt his reputation." Molly Ivins

      by lahke on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 10:13:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  supporting doc (4.00 / 3)


      In re: to lawnorders excellent point above, a nice downloadable PDF is here:

      www.kintera.org/atf/cf/ %7BDFBB2772-F5C5-4DFE-B310-D82A61944339%7D/rates&elections0500update.pdf

      One quick quote from the above doc:

      "The 1.74 percentage point increase in the FOMC-controlled federal funds rate between June 1999 and May 2000 is nearly seven times greater than the average change in the funds rate during comparable periods over the past 11 national election cycles."

         The document makes the point about how extrodinary the 2000 hikes were in historical context.

    •  Just what I was going say. (4.00 / 2)

      Greenspan's comments on irrational exuberance late in Clinton's term belied the tenet of market pricing theory, i.e. that the market knows best what price to assign. Of course no one, not even my beloved The Economist magazine, wondered, if stock market extremes were his concern, why margin rates were not increased. That is the traditional Rx for overactive stock markets.

      Plus, such interference by the Fed should be against Greenspan's philosophy. He clearly raised interest rates to slow the general economy, not the stock market. I can't prove that he did so to help the GOP in the coming elections, but I can't prove that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow either.

      The greatest blessing bestowed on a people is the absence of ignorance in public office. - Confucius

      by cavanaghjam on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 11:29:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I always thought it was something else (none / 0)

      Remember how the economy started growing just before Bush I's term ended. It also started falling just as Clinton was finishing up. I don't like coincidences like that. I figure it is the markets way of saying Clinton would be good for the economy, and now it looks like he's the next president, things should start to improve. When it looked like Bush II was going to be president, the market said this guy is bad for the economy so the economy started to drop.

      The economy is largely based on the mindset of the people. If it appears bad, things will get bad very quickly as consumers stop buying everything but the necessities. If it looks good they will buy everything in sight and keep the economy humming along. The only thing we have now is lots of credit card debt and home equity keeping consumers buying. When that bursts, the mindset will take over and (fill in the apocalyptic scenario here).

      Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

      by corwin on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 08:06:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Traitorsof the US - part one: Greenspan (none / 0)

    The senile old self aggrandizng Bush promoter must go.
  •  It Feels Like Time To Attack (4.00 / 2)

    his credibility.

    This isn't my expertise, but it seems to this layman voter as though he's saying things that are demonstrably wrong or inconsistent with himself.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 09:06:38 PM PDT

  •  It is time... (4.00 / 2)

    for Alan Greenspan to head for greener pastures.

    It would be no surprise to me if his presence before Congress encouraging modifications to Social Security were not the result of political pressure.  Perhaps he wasn't strong-armed, but it wouldn't be surprising if he were encouraged very strongly.

    Regardless of his motivations or who's pulling his strings, Greenspan needs to be replaced at some point.

    Nothing changes if the same old crummy, greedy bastards stay in power.

  •  Ayn Randite Greenspan (4.00 / 5)

    Didn't Greenspan sit adoringly at the feet of Ayn Rand when he was younger, soaking up her dictums about the parasitic nature of most humans, and how their welfare came at the cost of the "great men" who did the "real (read: no manual labor) work"?

    Yes, he did.

    Doesn't that tell us all we need to know about his objectivity on the subject of a social welfare program?

    The following is merely my speculation, though it certainly is the viewpoint of Ayn Randites. I think he might actually believe that most Americans' don't deserve a safety net. That no matter your socio-economic or cultural background if you haven't "made it" or "succeeded" in the way he considers most appropriate then you are a leech on society because you have the gall to ask for (at long last...) a fair wage for your labor in the form of a delayed government pension.

    But it takes all kinds to make this country run, not just the narcissistic and the psychotically ambitious who manage to cajole massive bonuses and pensions out of the supple boardroom flak, and