Daily Kos

A Promise to My Grandfather: A Follow Up

Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:07:33 PM PDT

[Promoted from the diaries by DavidNYC. My father is a Holocaust survivor - and my grandfather a victim of it - so I imagined this diary might have special meaning for me as I read it. But I could never have imagined the stunning conclusion. I insist that you read to the very end of this miraculous story.]

After writing my diary "A Promise to My Grandfather" yesterday, I received over 40 emails from all over the country (I am still getting some right now) from those that were also impacted by the Holocaust. I read each one of them and shed a tear for every word. Many thanked me for sharing the story of my grandfather, but I should thank all of them for their stories. It helped me see that I am not alone in my pain, but also to see that there is hope. Hope that there are those that want to fight the hate that is now forming and stop it before we repeat it.

However, there was one email from BettyG in San Rafael, California that moved me that it is taking me way too long to write this diary.

Here is my follow up with BettyG's email.

The original diary:
Last year at my grandfather's funeral, I made a promise to both him and myself that I would fight to the very end to prevent the evil that he had to endure in his life from happening again. Everyday when I look into the blue eyes of my daughter, the same blue eyes my grandfather had, I am reminded of that promise and know that it is not only a promise to him, but to her as well.

Diaries :: amprather's diary ::
In the fall of 1943, after being captured by the Nazis in the Ukraine, my grandfather was sent to Auschwitz. At first, he was just one of many Soviet POWs held at the camp, but it was later discovered that he was Jewish, so he was removed from the Soviet soldiers and placed with the other European Jews. My grandfather never knew why he survived while others parished, but there was never a day that passed after liberation in 1945 that he thanked God for that gift of life.

My grandfather was able to get to England and then on to America to restart his life. He raised 5 children and later cherished his 22 grandchildren. He loved to work in his garden, even on the hottest of days. As a child, I always wondered why he wore long shirts even on those August days when it would easily be 100 degrees (even in the shade). When I was 9, I caught my grandfather shaving in the bathroom and that is when I saw it: His Camp Number - 58877241.

Not knowing any better, I asked him why he got such a "stupid tattoo". He told me that he really didn't want to get it and quickly tried to cover it with a towel. I followed him asking him, "Why don't you get it removed then?" He stop dead in the hallway and without turning around said "So I don't forget." We never discussed it again.

When he died last summer, I told myself that he was finally at peace. As I stood over his coffin with my wife, I reached down and took his arm in mine. I unbuttoned his sleeve and rolled it up. I looked at the number again - 58877241. My wife looked at me and asked "Why are you doing that?" All I could say was "So I don't forget." Right then I made my promise to him - Never again.

Now when I see the hate and bigotry that comes out of those that call them "Christians" or "Moral People", I know that this is how it began seven decades ago in Europe. It was too late, when people finally woke up, millions had been carted away in cattle cars to their deaths.

I don't want to see that here or anywhere else. I do not want there to be cattle cars filled with people that these hate mongers scream out against. I do not want to see gays, liberals, Mexicans, hippies, Hollywood Actors, or anyone else have to be tattooed with a number. No more 58877241s.

This summer, my family and I will be traveling to Auschwitz, so my children understand what there grandfather went through. I want my daughter to know why I see him in her eyes. And then everytime I look in her eyes I will see hope and love and not 58877241.

So to the Phelps and Coulters of the world, you are on notice, we will fight your hate because we will not have this happen again.

Here is BettyG's email-

amprather,

After reading your email, I was moved to tears because it reminded me of my grandfather, Ivan Feduleyev. He was also a soldier in the Red Army, captured in the Ukraine. He was taken to Auschwitz as a POW. At first his unit was held in a special part of the camp, but things changed when the guards heard from one of the officers that there were Jewish soldiers in the unit.

All of the soldiers were beaten for a few days as the guards demanded they identify the Jews. None of them would identify the Jewish troops. Finally, the Captain of the Guard decided that the only way to make them talk was to execute one of the soldiers. They brought the unit into a yard and lined the soldiers up for selection. They choose my grandfather. They hauled him in front of a firing squad. The Captain of the Guard again demanded that the Jews among them be identified. Then one of the soldiers came forward and identified himself as a Jew. The Captain grabbed him and hauled him away and stopped the execution. The troops never saw the soldier again.

[....]

My grandfather never forgot that soldier's name, he named his first son after him, Roman. The soldier's name was Roman Edemskoi.

[....]

Roman Edemskoi (58877241) was my grandfather.

I am traveling to San Rafael next week to talk to BettyG. If you don't think the Web is a powerful, earth-shattering tool, I hope you think differently.

To all that wrote me via email or posted a comment on the original diary, again thank you.
Update [2005-3-5 1:41:11 by amprather]: I want to thank everyone that has read and was moved by this, since this went in to the Most Recommend Section, my email has blown up from many of you and some journalists. This is causing some concerns, though, with Betty and I. We are starting to think that this is no longer our time to talk next week. Trust me, we want to share our meeting with everyone, but first we want to be able to talk to each other face to face in peace. Also we want the two families to talk, we don't want media hounds destroying what could be a beautiful time. Because of that, we ask that you continue to support Betty and I, but do not suffocate us. Trust me, DailyKos will be the first to hear about the meeting and the eventual news stories. Again Thank You for all of the kind words, they have moved me and Betty. God Bless all of you and I look forward to writing next week. Adam (amprather) [UPDATE2]Well, what I feared would happen, happened. There would be skeptics that would rather attack me for this diary. That is why I didn't at first want to share it. Well I did and my email account blew up. So I took down my link on my profile. Oddly, I still got emails after that. Then there were questions about the open casket. My grandfather was not a practicing Jew when I knew him. So his service took place at a funeral home. I am not Jewish, all five of my grandfather's daughters did not practice Judaism, so all of us grandchildren were not raised Jewish. So there. As for BettyG, I said I got an email from her. Up until then I knew nothing about her. If she was a blogger on DailyKos or not. She just wrote me. I asked my cousin and a friend that are bloggers on DailyKos, what I should do. I wanted to just delete the diary. But they told me to leave it up. My cousin came over to my place to help me write this and keep me calm. If people want to tear the story apart before I can put it all together. Then fine, do so. Believe the story or not. It's my life anyway. I guess I have learned the other side of a diary, it can cut you down too. I will reconsider if I want to post in the future if this is what I have to go through. For those of you that still like the story, again thank you, but now I am in real limbo here about going forward. -Adam

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Permalink | 321 comments

  •  Incredible (4.00 / 26)

    I highly recommend that you forward this story to the press.


    "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." - Salvor Hardin

    by Zackpunk on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:09:40 PM PDT

    •  We Are. (4.00 / 160)

      We have an interview with a reporter in San Francisco Tuesday.

      The simple minded and the uninformed can be easily led astray and those that cannot connect the dots, Hey look the other way.

      by amprather on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:11:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Excellent (4.00 / 3)

        I'm looking forwards to reading that, and hearing more about your meeting with BettyG.


        "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." - Salvor Hardin

        by Zackpunk on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:14:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Local Jewish paper (4.00 / 4)

        I don't know who you're talking to, but I'm sure the local weekly jewish newspaper (called "J") would love to talk to you.

        Disability Rights Advocates -- Fighting for justice for disabled veterans

        by mwk on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 02:37:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  two more recommendations (none / 0)

          I really, really think you ought to get in touch with the Holocaust Memorial Center in Farmington Hills, MI - an amazing facility, an amazing set of people who are doing wonderful things to document stories such as your grandfathers'.

          Also, the Jewish News in Detroit would appreciate hearing from you, I"m sure.

          amazing, wonderful story.

          It's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. - G. Carlin

          by RabidNation on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 10:19:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Also the Holocaust Museum in DC (4.00 / 2)

            But in time.  You have time. This is like finding a long-lost family member that you never knew you had.
            Both of you and your families should have some quiet time to sort through your feelings and really digest, meditate, and pray on this.  

            Speaking for myself and anyone who may feel so inclined...these are scary times, and we need to know stories of courage and hope more than even the air we breathe. We cling to them. We are not so selfish, however, that we can't give you time to really come to terms with the truly amazing discovery and connection you've made.

            God bless you.

            "Sir, we've already lost the dock." A Zion Lieutenant to Commander Lock, The Matrix Revolutions

            by AuntiePeachy on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 05:37:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I often remark... (3.98 / 57)

         That a particular post has made me weep, brought me to tears, or even brought a sob from my throat.

        But it's taken me five minutes to compose myself enough to be able to see the keyboard through my swollen eyes, still releasing tears as if there is an endless supply.

        Oh, god. I didn't see your diary when you first posted it. Thank you for posting the text in addition to the letter.

        Oh, god.  I will never forget that number as long as I live. Cursed with a bizarre memory for random numbers, I will forever remember your grandfather and his tattooed number. 58877241.

        Oh, god. I keep typing it because it keeps escaping my lips as I sit here alone, listening to the rain and Joni Mitchell, thinking about your grandfather and that UNBELIEVABLE, MIRACULOUS convergence so many years after the defining moment for evil in the 20th century.

        I opened the diary in another window so I could keep reading it again and again as I sat here staring at this text box, trying to articulate the extraordinary and conflicting emotions your story has evoked in me -- and, doubtless, everyone who has read it.

        And every time I reach the first mention of the name Roman... I burst into sobs again.

        What kind of a WORLD is this? The terrible beauty and evil that have coexisted since our time began -- what can POSSIBLY be the meaning of all of this?

        I just veered back from atheist to agnostic, sitting here, contemplating this. It's a familiar pendulum swing for me. BUt your tale has shaken my recent and fairly tenuous grip on atheism. So it's back to my old standby, William Shakespeare:

        "There are more things in heav'n and earth, [Maryscott], than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

        How can I possibly hope to grasp the meaning of life, the composition of the universe and my place in it? I can't even discern the difference between anger and fear.

        I thank you for bringing us all this glorious and awe-inspiring piece of your history; it is now a piece of our history. I know that I will repeat it for the rest of my life. It will return to me during those spiritual droughts when I feel alone in the universe. It will be passed on to my son as evidence of the unknowableness of this existence of ours.

        Thank you, a thousand times. I think I can speak for everyone who passes thorugh this diary when I say you have enriched our lives immeasurably by sharing this with us all.

        with love and gratitude,
        Maryscott

      •  Also - Marin Independent Journal (4.00 / 3)

        The local paper in San Rafael would probably be very interested in this story.

        Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. Voltaire 1694-1778

        by SallyCat on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:19:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Beautiful, just beautiful (4.00 / 3)

        That story made my year.  Wow.  This story deserves to be a movie or a book.  

        McCain: Less jobs, more war.

        by Unstable Isotope on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:28:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps (4.00 / 2)

        Olbermann would be interested?
      •  What a wonderful surprise for you (none / 1)

        And what a wonderful story for us to weap over.

        Thank you.

      •  hate to be a party pooper (none / 0)

        but I've never heard of an open casket at a Jewish funeral.  I'm assuming it was a Jewish funeral, though.
        •  Private viewing? (none / 0)

          When my grandmother passed away, the family was given the "opportunity" to view her one final time prior to the service.  So, viewing is not unheard of.
        •  Private viewing here too... (4.00 / 2)

          For my grandmothers funeral. My grandfather was a little different. He lived until he was 99. He whispered to his brother right before his death...I think I went four years too long. He insisted on a graveside service, come as you are, longer than 20 minutes and have a big party at his favorite Italian restaurant.

          Incredible story. Thanks for sharing it.

          Support Col Hackworth's because tomorrow is just a promise, not a guarantee

          by Dburn on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 05:48:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  careful where you poop... (none / 1)

          Private viewings for family and any others close to the deceased that the family invites are common in my experience, in Southern synagogues anyway.
          •  My experience (none / 0)

            When my stepfather died in 2000, the fellow at the funeral home who was handling everything asked my mother if she wanted to open the casket so those who wanted to pay their respects with it open could do so.  She did NOT permit it, but it was brought out as an option.  This was a Jewish funeral home in New Jersey.

            http://brilliantatbreakfast.blogspot.com Stomping monsters since 2004

            by hackwriter on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 06:00:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I thought the same thing when I read it (none / 1)

          I didn't know some synagogues allow private viewings. I always thought the whole point is that we're not to have contact with the dead.  That's what I was told when my grandfather died.

          Anyway, this is an amazing story.  Definitely brought tears to my eyes.

      •  your interview (none / 1)

        Let us know where and when it will be published.
      •  Thank you for sharing (none / 1)

        MaryScott expressed everything I wanted to say (further down) so I will let her words speak for me, but I had to include a thank you to you. Your story is truly inspiring. I look forward to reading the story in the local paper next week, as I live in the Bay Area.

        Again, thank you!

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." - FDR

        by Vitarai on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 08:16:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  For one of the few times in my life (4.00 / 17)

    I am absolutely speechless.  I just read this to my partner, and she is sitting here in tears., and I am not far from it.

    Know that for however long it takes, there are millions of us prepared to stand with you in your mission.

    Peace, my friend, peace.

    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

    by Wayward Wind on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:09:59 PM PDT

  •  Twice In Two Days (4.00 / 8)

    ... you've got me crying at my desk at work.

    Thank you for sharing these deeply moving stories.  May we all show your grandfather's bravery in the days to come...

    Socialism is to capitalism as training a dog is to worshipping a wolf

    by Irfo on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:13:38 PM PDT

    •  This will be the last (4.00 / 37)

      atleast for a while.

      It is still painful to write, but it has been good therapy.

      Thanks.

      The simple minded and the uninformed can be easily led astray and those that cannot connect the dots, Hey look the other way.

      by amprather on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:15:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I respect your wish for silence and a (4.00 / 11)

        chance to digest this incredible sequence of events.

        However, on behalf of all of us sitting here with tears in our eyes, I'd like to ask you to post the link when the story runs in SF, so that we can all read it. (of course, I admit I'd love to hear your account of the meeting between you two grandchildren, but I will restrain myself... sort of...)

        Peace and blessings

      •  As a European - (4.00 / 17)

        one of my great concerns for America has been that we have not learned or remembered history very well.

        Which is why now that you hear and read all this hate from the Republicans/Religious right - it frightens me.  I am afraid that the chasm between then and now is getting narrower and narrower.

        Unfortunately I do not think it will take much for these nut-cases to go off the deep end - and we'll have another Third Reich on our hands.

        This is why letters like yours are of such importance -- it makes people stop and think -- and hopefully take action against the hate on the right against whomever they decide is not worthy.

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:22:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree and I have an unpopular take (3.88 / 36)

          We must never forget.  But at the same time, we must not allow ourselves to treat Hitler as if he is unique.  

          People always get nervous when Hitler is suggested to be a human being.  "He is a monster!" they say.  If you comment that he was an incredible speaker or was charismatic and loved by his followers, you are somehow defending him.  

          I think this is wrong.  Hitler was a man.  When we demonize Hitler, we diminish the value of what his existence can remind us of.  For if he is the devil incarnate, he is a singularity.  He cannot be repeated.  Thus, we need not worry about there being another Hitler.  He is uniquely evil.  An aberration.

          If he is a man, a popular man, (which is the truth) we have more reason to stay ever vigilant.  We cannot assume we will know the devil when we see him.  Hitler was a charismatic, well spoken, leader.

          Already, it has gotten to the point where you can't compare any person to Hitler.  It is considered hate speech.  If this is the case, then we truly have already forgotten.  He was not a monster.  He was an evil man.  Spotting a monster is easy.  Spotting an evil man is not.  It is just too easy to say that the Germans were duped by this monster and that is that.

          Hating Hitler is easy.  Understanding that people loved him is not.  We must not let people remove Hitler from the human race (and this happens on both sides of the aisle but for different reasons).  He is very much a part of the human race.  

          "Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage." - Woody Allen

          by Seattle Slough on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:48:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  perhaps unpopular, but not alone (none / 0)

            I agree.

            I have always been fascinated by Hitler. And whenever I say that, more often than not I have to defend that "fascinated" does not mean "respect or honor".

            He never advanced beyond Corporal in the Army, yet he rose to lead a nation. And gathered such a large and violent and loyal following.

            Scary. And Fascinating.

            •  ah (none / 0)

              Kinda remind you of someone else?  

              I do not know what weapons World War III will be fought with. World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -- Albert Einstein

              by elveta on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 05:16:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  comparisons (none / 0)

                yes
                but to make the absolute comparison is "unpatriotic"
                •  Bush is no Hitler... (none / 0)

                  He's not nearly as talented.
                  •  Yes, but he has a support network (none / 0)

                    Karl Rove, et al. Folks with a historic sense of themselves versus "evil".  Damn scary to me.

                    "In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." MLK, changed to this during the 2008 FISA fight

                    by bewert on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 09:31:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Karl Rove... (none / 0)

                      Karl Rove's grandfather was a Nazi..Gauleiter of Oldenburg and helped plan and build concentration camps in that area. Small wonder his grandson still has the "family values". And don't forget, Bush's grandfather did business with Hitler, through his bank. He facilitated the buying of raw materials for the Nazis during the war. These people don't only behave like fascists, they have a family background that seems to condone it. I learned alot from my grandmother(a lifelong liberal Democrat) and I carry many of her attitudes and standards through my life. It isn't a big stretch to assume that Rove and Bush have had the attitudes and standards of their grandfathers passed on down to them.  

                      What happens when Bush takes Viagra? he gets taller. Robin Williams

                      by Demfem on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 10:39:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  asdf (none / 0)

                        that's an urban myth ... please don't repeat, it only discredits us ...

                        The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

                        by wystler on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 09:19:57 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  asdf addendum (none / 0)

                          (the part about Rove's grandfather)

                          The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

                          by wystler on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 09:20:52 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Googled it.. (none / 0)

                          And not all the sources are "urban myth" type sites. Common Dreams, and several others also say the same thing. His name was Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. It's a matter of record, Nazi records. They kept very good ones.

                          What happens when Bush takes Viagra? he gets taller. Robin Williams

                          by Demfem on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 09:37:46 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah (none / 0)

                            That's why I find CommonDreams so damned disappointing. I can only hope that their own editorial decision - to not remove it - is based on a decision to take their lumps, rather than on an assertion that it's true. There's solid historical documentation out there that refutes the claim, and the original source - Al Martin - has time and again demonstrated his proclivity to play the wild-eyed loose cannon. He really is everything that the right attempts to ascribe to Michael Moore. Yes, the Nazis were rigerous in documenting - there was no Gauleiter of Oldenburg.

                            For more facts on KarlHeinz Röver (take it for what it's worth, since it's from a geocities page):

                            "On the night of May 13, 1942, Röver startled the party hierarchy when he announced that he was going to see the Führer on the next day and then proceed to meet Winston Churchill, in order to make peace. Coming virtually on the first anniversary of Rudolf Hess' flight to Scotland, the matter was immediately brought to Martin Bormann's attention. An SS physician diagnosed the last stages of syphilis in Roever, and he was rushed to an isolated area. Two agents [Georg Joel, Ministerpräsident of Oldenburg and the Stabsleiter of the Röver's Gauleitung] were sent by Bormann to examine Röver, and they reported on May 15 that the sick man had succumbed to heart failure. The whole matter was hushed up and soon forgotten in the course of the war."

                            (Excerpted from Charles Hamilton's Leaders and Personalities of the Third Reich, R. James Bender Publishing, 1984; story also found in Karl Höffkes, Hitlers Politische Generale, Grabert-Verlag, 1986/1997)

                            Röver was then given a state funeral in the Mosaic Hall (Mosaiksaal) of the Reichskanzlei in Berlin on 22.05.1942. He was buried in the Neuen Friedhof, Oldenburg on 23.05.1942.

                            This rumor is precisely the kind of crap that discredits the folks who promote it. With all the charges one can level at BushCo that stick, there's absolutely no reason to raise this manure-laden charge.

                            The right has made up shit too. Anybody not get an email "reporting" on the Senate hearings in the 80s, when Ollie North told off Al Gore about OBL, nevermind it was neither Gore, nor bin Laden?

                            Of course, I'll eat my words if you can connect the dots between KarlHeinz and a hospital in Denver in 1950, where Karl Rove was born. It'd be fairly elementary to link a birth record listing a father, Ellis Island records, and either wind up in Bremen or not. You really should ask yourself why this whirlwind of 2003 has not been sustained ...

                            The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

                            by wystler on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 12:28:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

              •  the scariest part after World War II (4.00 / 6)

                was that (in Europe) it was your neighbors that had killed everyone and everything in sight.

                and it is still happening - I was in Croatia not too long time ago - and the most frightening thing I heard was: - during the war my neighbors came and killed my whole family - AND YOU KNOW THEY ARE STILL LIVING NEXT TO ME!!

                How would you ever be able to go to sleep at night.

                Man's inhumanity to man.

                "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                by sara seattle on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 08:21:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  speaking of neighbors killing neighbors (none / 1)

                  Hotel Rwanda is an excellent film, and I recommend it to everyone.  I waited in a 2 hour line to see Paul Rusesabagina (the guy whose heroism inspired the film) and the saddest thing he said, but the thing that stuck in my head, is that 'he has no faith in people anymore.'  (paraphrasing)

                  I've wondered whether I would have the courage to see and act in such a situation.  Sometimes it seems to me that seeing is what people don't do.  Paul and Hotel Rwanda are inspirations for me, and make me think I might be strong enough.  But I am very sad that he doesn't assume people are good anymore, after what he has seen.

          •  See "Triumph of the Will" (4.00 / 4)

            Yes, some of it is dated, but it is still a fantastic piece of propaganda, not only because Riefenstahl was a great filmmaker, but because her subject knew so much about manipulating people and did it so well.

            Hitler was an extraordinary man, evil through and through, but elected during a bad time in Germany, a country that had been a world leader in science and the arts. Yes, Germany had a lot to answer for, but I'm not convinced that we are so different that we cannot follow that path if we become complacent.

            •  Also "The Dictator and The Tramp" (none / 1)

              It's a documentary about Chaplin's The Great Dictator, and it covers the making of the film, but also Chaplin's morbid fascination with Hitler.

              Hitler stole his moustache! And Chaplin was fascinated with Hitler's speaking ability, calling him a great actor (Hitler did take acting lessons to enhance his oratory).

              In this country, we usually just see Hitler in foaming-at-the-mouth mode, but he would build up to that in highly dramatic fashion.

              I remember reading an interview with John Cusack when Max came out, and he emphasized Hitler's humanity, too. He said something like, "He wasn't some monster, he was a human, of woman born, and we have to remember that."

              •  Pennsylvania (4.00 / 4)

                Many years ago I was living in Lancaster PA, a Mennonite town in rural PA.  The KKK organized a demonstration against a gay bookstore and "other" people in general.  I tried to set up a counter demonstration, but nobody wanted to confront the KKK.  So, instead, since I lived on one of the blocks they marched on, I played that wonderful speach by Charlie Chaplin from the The Great Dictator.  The one where the other Hitler speaks out in favor of difference and for tolerance.  I ended up receiving death threats at 3:00 a.m. and shit scrawled in front of my house.  I decided to move the San Francisco and never looked back.

                I have visited Dachau and I am with you...Never, ever, fucking again.

                •  Oh Damn (none / 1)

                  What I meant to say was I played the speach out my windows on louspeakers at top volume.  We were actaully told to turn it down by the police and told we were committing a disturbance of the peace.  Argh.
                •  Well, God love ya (none / 1)

                  Down here in Tennessee, the people of Pulaski, birthplace of Nathan Bedford Forrest's KKK, all shut down their stores and turned their backs on the KKK.

                  But there's this patch of private land that has a statue of Forrest. It's right on the interstate, and it is so hideous, it alone devalues the Southern Whatever for whoever sees it.

                  If they don't rip their own eyes out first. Lucky it's on the interstate, so no one really catches its hideousness.

              •  Mustache (none / 0)

                I read somewhere that Hitler grew that mustache because he had a big nose and the mustache deflected the viewer's eyes from the nose to the mustache.  In WWI, he had a more conventional mustache...a bit walrus-like.
            •  See Nacht und Nebel too.. (none / 0)

              It means "Night and Fog" and is a film about a Nazi program for terrorizing the local populace. They would arrest people, and no information would be given, no letters, no nothing about what had happened to them. They just disappeared. It turned out that most of them were shot shortly after being arrested, and the rest were sent to concentration camps or "labor details". Not many of those survived the war, but a few did. The thing about the Night and Fog directive is that it sounds eerily like the current administrations way of dealing with "terrorist suspects" in this country. Fortunately, we are not yet so intimidated that we don't notice and make a fuss when one of our neighbors disappears into the gaping maw of "Homeland Security". Thank God the courts are FINALLY taking notice of this agregious violation of the Constitution. And just as an aside..does anyone besides me wonder if Bush actually read the Constitution before swearing to uphold it??

              What happens when Bush takes Viagra? he gets taller. Robin Williams

              by Demfem on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 10:53:03 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  yeah (4.00 / 3)

            I see it as that Hitler met an appetite.

            I don't remember the direct quote, but Jung said something like "that which we deny in ourselves is what becomes most primitive".

            I think that can happen to societies as well, creating appetites.

            And when you're ravenously hungry, you don't care so much what you eat.  You can eat poison if it looks good on the surface.

            At some point I am going to learn more about German culture pre-Hitler, but I think there was a ton of denial there that meant a huge appetite for pseudo-morality and pseudo-populism, a reaction away from stagnation and immorality.  But since they weren't measured about it, it opened them up to the kind of corruption that Hitler represented.

            •  pre-nazi Germany (none / 1)

              Check out "A Chorus of Stones" by Susan Griffin - incredible book, great research and insight into Himmler, his background, etc. Fascinating stuff.
            •  You have to go back to WWI (none / 0)

              Germany was ignominously defeated in WWI, and was forbidden to create arms, which Hitler built upon. It was very poor during the depression of the 30's, which Hitler blamed on the Jews. Plus he was a great orator, in a time where radio was everywhere and TV was nowhere. He built on the problems of post-WW1 Germany to get elected and then declared that his election was the last.

              But he was human, very much so, which is the scary part, since so many people supported him.

              "In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." MLK, changed to this during the 2008 FISA fight

              by bewert on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 09:43:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Great Orator he was not (none / 1)

                I've studied this a lot. In fact, when I was in college, I took a course called "Nazi Germany, Could it Happen Again?" We studied their history, culture and what led up to it. Unfortunately, I walked away with the answer "yes".

                Hitler was not a good public speaker. He even studdered. Many of the tapes that were released were heavily edited. He had a great group of "handlers". A marketing campaign like we've never seen. He did know how to fire up the masses. And he gave a consistent message.  

                THIS is why I am so freaked out now. There are a lot of people who believe W is a great public speaker.

            •  Also, "Hitler's Willing Executioners" (none / 1)

              You can get this book on Amazon.

              To cut to the chase: ordinary people, just like us, perpetrated the Holocaust. Monsters not needed. Book extremely popular in Germany.

              Corruption is what keeps us safe and warm. Corruption is why we win. -Syriana

              by CarbonFiberBoy on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 10:44:40 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Better yet (none / 0)

                Get it on Barnesandnoble.com or borders.com.  Amazon is a major red donar. B&N and Borders tend to go blue.
              •  also the documentary (none / 0)

                The documentary "The Sorrow and the Pity", the book "Vichy France" by Robert O. Paxton, and the book "Crimes of Obedience" by Herbert Kelman and Lee Hamilton.

                The Sorrow and the Pity was made in 1971 but banned from being shown in French cinemas or on French TV until Francois Mitterand came to power in the early 1980's (Mitterand was the first postwar French leader to have an untainted record during WWII - he'd been an active member of the Resistance and rescued author Marguerite Duras's husband from a concentration camp - Duras and her husband were in his Resistance cell) rather than cooperating in one form or another. It's about how the French government and many ordinary French people went along with their occupiers and actively persecuted Jews and resisters. It's available to buy on Amazon, I believe, but should be hard to rent unless you live near a university library. On the same subject, historian Robert O. Paxton wrote a very compelling book about Vichy France, also published in 1971, also banned from being sold in France until Mitterand's presidency. That should be easier to find in a library than the documentary.

                I realize we were talking about Germany, but  collaboration, even enthusiastic collaboration, happened elsewhere too, even when the collaborators were betraying their own people. My godmother's uncle was in the Dutch Resistance. He was picked up by the Gestapo at the pharmacy in Amsterdam where he worked after a tip-off from one of his neighbours (also Dutch, not German). One of his colleagues at the pharmacy called his house as soon as he'd been arrested and told his wife to take their baby son and leave the house immediately. She went underground and his Resistance cell smuggled her and the baby to England. Why did the colleague call, and why did the cell work so hard to keep her and the baby out of sight? If an interrogation subject wouldnt' cooperate, the Gestapo might pick up their family, in hopes that someone who wouldn't break under torture would break if their loved ones were tortured in front of them.

                There was a huge infrastructure of ordinary people in Germany who helped carry out out Hitler's commands, either by actively participating or by not caring, and a smaller but equally obedient infrastructure in the occupied countries who did the same for the occupiers.  

          •  It could happen anywhere (none / 1)

            Never forget, Hitler was democratically elected.
            •  Not exactly. (none / 0)

              After the Nazi Party scored big (though not a majority, IIRC) in the parliamentary elections the aging von Hindenburg was persuaded by wealthy industrialists to appoint Hitler.  The industrialists were worried about "Bolshevism" and thought they could control Hitler.  Hitler never got a majority of German votes in a free election, as far as I know.

              Put on your jumping shoes, which are intellect and love--Meister Eckhart

              by smusher on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 10:31:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  To see how Hitler was *made* (ruined) (4.00 / 2)

            by his childhood, read Alice Miller's "For Your Own Good".

            Incredible. Shows how the incredible abuse heaped on him as a child -- created an anger which was still not slaked after killing millions. Stalin had similar childhood.

            One of the most incredible books ever written to understand how people are warped beyond belief. And how it plays into politics. Truly pivitol -- a must read.

            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0374522693/qid=1110002746/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/103-7049814 -7526226

            Be good to each other. It matters.

            by AllisonInSeattle on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 10:02:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Alice Miller (none / 0)

              has a new book due out sometime this year. I would also recommend "The Truth Will Set You Free." In what has been an eye-opener, I went from reading Miller to Wilhelm Reich's "The Mass Psychology of Fascism."  These writers were in touch with the seeds of and the ramifications of repression and wrote to warn us.

              This diary is a stunning reminder that we must remain awake.

              Against silence, which is slavery. -- Czeslaw Milosz

              by Caneel on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 09:21:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Well put (none / 0)

            I agree with your statement. Hitler was just another person, with no magical powers. He was able to move huge numbers of people to do totally horrible things. This is not something unique or unheard of. Which means it can happen again.

            The other point would be, Hitler did not act alone. Millions cooperated in his evil. Millions!

            Which is all the more reason to be vigilent.

          •  Read "Inside The Third Reich" (none / 0)

            By Albert Speer

            Speer's recollections say exactly what you said.

            Hitler was very charasmatic - to the point where Speer and others did evil (without realizing it) because they were patriotic to Hitler and the Reich.  

            I highly recommend this book.  It tells how persuasive the snake-oil can be.

            George W Bush - Frozen in adolescence

            by FRANKL on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 12:07:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Another Hitler (none / 0)

            There may be no duplicate of Hitler, but there are those leaders who share his ego-manical ways.  Hitler never achieved great success in the military (he was an Austrian, by the way, not a German national), but we have a president who has not won any presidential elections legitimately.

            We need to be dillegent in seeing the similarities of what happened in late 1930's Germany, and what is happening in this country today.

        •  Roll Up Our Sleeves (4.00 / 7)

          Bernie Sanders says we "do not have the luxury of being depressed."

          Delay, Rove, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Luntz, Cheney, and the rest, plus their army of drones are working day-in and day-out every day to create the world they want.

          We won't beat that with arm-chair outrage. We can't defeat them with occasional weekend activism.

          We must roll up our sleeves, get out, get organized, and go to work.

          Hold community discussions. Do fundraisers. Organize protests. Take non-violent activist training. Teach non-violent activist training. Talk with your friends and neighbors. Seek out houses of worship, peace and justice groups, political groups, wherever you think you can connect and make a difference, and get started. If every Kos member reaches 50 unaware people over the next year, we'll create a sea-change.

          Just please, whatever you do, don't do nothing.

          [Note: This is a plea, not a criticism. I know many people reading this are working very hard. It's time for all of us to take it to the next level. We are the proverbial "they" who will make the change happen.]

        •  true (none / 0)

          few people realize how close we were to joining the wrong side on wwii, even though revisionists like hurricane zell would like to deny it.
          •  Europe the pacifier (none / 0)

            England and Europe did nothing to stop Hitler. They only continued to appease him. They did nothing when the Nazi's took the following aggressive actions:

            1936 took over the Rhineland
            1937 Luftwaffe bombed Gurnica, Spain (Picasso's famous painting of the distruction)
            1938 Kristallnacht
            1938 bullied Austria into unifying with Germany
            1938 manufactured a reason to take over the Sudentenland - part of Czechoslovakia

            Only when Poland was invaded in 1939 did they act.

            Finally, finally Europe declared war!

            It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

            by auapplemac on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 09:25:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  that's the half of the story the right wants (none / 0)

              to remember. They'd like to forget how prominent right-wingers were pro-Hitler.

              The most prominent wingnut of the day was Charles Lindburgh. This bio notes that he did eventually join the war effort:

              German medal of honor

              While in Europe, Lindbergh was invited by the governments of France and Germany to tour the aircraft industries of their countries. Lindbergh was especially impressed with the highly advanced aircraft industry of Nazi Germany. In 1938, Hermann Goering, a high Nazi official, presented Lindbergh with a German medal of honor. Lindbergh's acceptance of the medal caused an outcry in the United States among critics of Nazism.

              Opposed voluntary American entry into World War II

              Lindbergh and his family returned to the United States in 1939. In 1941, he joined the America First Committee, an organization that opposed voluntary American entry into World War II. Lindbergh became a leading spokesman for the committee. He criticized President Franklin D. Roosevelt's foreign policies. He also charged that British, Jewish, and pro-Roosevelt groups were leading America into war. Lindbergh resigned his commission in the Army Air Corps after Roosevelt publicly denounced him. Some Americans accused Lindbergh of being a Nazi sympathizer because he refused to return the medal he had accepted.

              After the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941, Lindbergh stopped his noninvolvement activity. He tried to reenlist, but his request was refused. He then served as a technical adviser and test pilot for the Ford Motor Company and United Aircraft Corporation (now United Technologies Corporation).

              50 combat missions

              In April 1944, Lindbergh went to the Pacific war area as an adviser to the United States Army and Navy. Although he was a civilian, he flew about 50 combat missions. Lindbergh also developed cruise control techniques that increased the capabilities of American fighter planes.

              Luce's hard right anti-communism faced resistance within his own party. PBS notes:

              Luce's concern for the world began with the Second World War. Like many members of the Eastern Establishment - an informal collection of publishers and political and financial leaders - Luce viewed the early victories of Nazi Germany with alarm. No longer, Luce argued, could America afford her traditional isolation from the world. Even if Britain stopped Hitler, Luce correctly surmised, the war would leave her too exhausted to play the great world power. Americans had to be made to accept the "inevitable": armed intervention to save Europe and a new postwar order dominated by the United States - Luce called it the American Century.

              Luce's vision of America hegemony still faced obstacles. Some powerful conservative elements within the Republican party and some newspapers, most notably the Chicago Tribune, fiercely opposed Luce's new imperialism. Abroad, the Soviet Union began late in the war to assert its own will over Eastern Europe. Even before the disintegration of the U.S.-Soviet alliance. Luce's magazines, in 1944 and 1945, started to question Russia's intentions for the postwar world. Stalin, like Hitler, seemed bent on upsetting a balance of power favorable to the United States.

    •  I was JUST about to say the same thing (4.00 / 3)

      Stop making me cry at work! :)

      Bless you both and your families... let us know how the trip goes!

      "Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment...but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society."

      by saint on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:36:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank God I'm not the only one (4.00 / 2)

      I've shut the office door and I'll get it together in a few moments.  Jesus.
  •  this is (4.00 / 4)

    horrible and beautiful at the same time.

    Keep telling the story.

  •  Wow (4.00 / 8)

    That's an amazing story. I've been to Dachau (sp?) and was horrified by what I saw. The story of what happened in Germany has always interested me because I couldn't understand how people could behave this way. It seems I'm starting to get a taste of it now.
  •  Unreal. (4.00 / 15)

    That is an absolutely gut-wrenching story.  In the midst of the craziness, one soldier was willing to die for his Jewish comrades.  Another soldier stood up and saved him.  

    Even in the ultimate insanity, some humans remain strong and brave. Amazing men; you are both so lucky to have descended from such people.  

    Deep breath. Compose self.  Keep tears off keyboard...

  •  Stunned (4.00 / 6)

    Miraculous coincidence.

    Thank you for letting us know about this - I'm speechless!

    I'm thanking the stars for your grandfather. You must be even more proud of him, if that was possible. True hero.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 01:12:06 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for your story. (4.00 / 9)

    We have a lot of work to do.

    At my nieces wedding a few years ago I sat for a long while listening to her new husband's great uncle tell of his escape from Nazi Germany.  He was a very young man at the time with several siblings.  In order for Jews to leave Germany they had to pay an exit tax.  This meant they sold everything they owned and gave the proceeds to the German government and if the government felt it was sufficient, they could leave...with only the clothes on their backs.

    One sister was married and had three children.  Her husband owned a factory of which he sold so his family could leave.  However the Nazi government decided they didn't get enough for the sale of the factory and demanded more.  They attempted to raise more but in the end, could not.  They were not allowed to leave and at the end of the war, my nephew-in-law's great uncle discovered that his sister, her husband and their children had all perished in the camps.

  •  I hope you won't mind (4.00 / 28)

    but I just made a promise to your grandfather myself.

    thanks.

    Join Soulforce-seeking Justice for God's GLBT children.
    Time to change the mindset - Obama 'O8!

    by its simple IF you ignore the complexity on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 01:22:40 PM PDT

  •  Wow (4.00 / 13)

    Amazing and beautiful. My uber stoic teenager just walked in and asked why I was crying, so I shared it with her. She left with tears on her face. We wish you well and look forward to reading about your visit with BettyG.

    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. -Benjamin Franklin

    by MissAnneThrope on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 01:41:17 PM PDT

  •  ....wow.... (4.00 / 3)

    this left chills up my back. This is an amazing coincidence, but I'm sad that it had to come from a byproduct of an era where human beings were at their absolute worst and their absolute best at the same time.
  •  What a fantastic diary. (4.00 / 4)

    There is so much I want to write, but none of it would do your story justice.

    Thank you.

  •  Brought me to tears (good ones, not bad) (none / 1)

    •  ditto (4.00 / 2)

      I'm also in tears -- I've been astonished and moved and enraged and engaged by other stories on the Internet, but never moved before to sudden, spontaneous tears.

      So this fightin' Catholic thanks you (and BettyG).  Mazeltov!

  •  Amazing (none / 1)

    What an unbelievably moving story.  Thank you so much for sharing it.  
  •  Holy Shit (4.00 / 2)

    Pardon my language. I get vulgar when I get emotional.

    I was not expecting that.

    I'm incredibly moved right now.
    (... to say the least.)

    It's not a campaign. It's a movement. Will you stand up?

    by danthrax on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 02:16:15 PM PDT

    •  me too (4.00 / 2)

      "holy fuck" and "wow" are about all i can muster.

      wow

      holy fuck

      see?

      oh, i'm crying too.  god bless the internets.

      my grandfather, while not jewish, was also a POW.  he would only ever talk about it if he was sauced up.  conflicting reports about his fate and whereabouts drove my grandmother to an early grave via drink.  i never knew her.

      not that anything could compare to the families of holocaust victims, but i'm starting to think that nobody was unaffected by that war.  nobody

      "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

      by Cedwyn on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 07:54:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank You (4.00 / 2)

    I know that it is difficult to share these stories. Thank you.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    by Pam LaPier on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 02:22:45 PM PDT

  •  What A Beautiful Story : ) (none / 1)

    Thanks for sharing. You've just made my day.

    "In the end we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." MLK, changed to this during the 2008 FISA fight

    by bewert on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 02:29:30 PM PDT

  •  Your story is so compelling, (4.00 / 6)

    I'm also moved to tears.  There is just one pragmatic point, the publicity  that could follow this story will be an opportunity to point out that joking about killing ones political opponents is the first step.

     I'm going to get a tissue now.

  •  Thank you (4.00 / 9)

    Thank you for reminding us that while there is great selfishness and evil in this world, in the midst of it there may be acts of transcendent good and self-sacrifice which may bring about joy beyond words.
  •  Amazing story! (4.00 / 9)

    The serendipity of this story is so amazing on so many levels.  I can't imagine the emotions you had when you read your grandfather's name in BettyG's email, amprather.  You have brought tears to many often-cynical eyes; thank you for this diary.

    My grandfather was a rotten drunk who pimped his daughter (my mother) to another drunk for a bottle of whiskey when she was 16.  

    Your grandfather was truly a man of honor and compassion.  Even though his time on earth has passed, his act of courage so long ago could be a catalyst to stop the current madness.  

    I hope that you and BettyG do everything you can to publicize this story, and that you appreciate how blessed you were to be loved by such a great man.

    We should all send this story to our friends, and ask everyone to make a promise to Roman Edemskoi.

    OWOWFO (Old White Ohio Woman for Obama) -7.00, -5.38 Support ePluribus Media

    by Jesus was a Liberal on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 03:01:16 PM PDT

    •  We should make a promise to your mother, too, (4.00 / 5)

      to do something about child abuse. Once and for all. To declare from the highest hills that it's not OK. That parents don't "own" their kids.

      We need to change social norms and laws so people who do things like that can be punished with jail time, and the whole of society expects that. Instead of us thinking, "That's another family's business, too bad for the kids, nothing I can do."

      That is a sick perspective -- the parallels to Germany are all too obvious. We can do better than this.

      I'm sorry this happened to your mother, if she's still alive would you please tell her that for me? In just those words.

      And for you, I'm sorry you have to live with this story. I hope you've been able to adopt some other elders to function as loving guides in your life.

      Good grief, how horrible for you all.

      Be good to each other. It matters.

      by AllisonInSeattle on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 10:12:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I broke the cycle in my life (4.00 / 4)

        As soon as I was old enough, I married someone completely different from my family and adopted his big warm loving family.  My kids were respected and cherished by my husband's relatives, so they have been spared the horrors of abusive alcoholic dysfunction.  They are grown now, beautiful, loving, responsible adults.  Praise God.

        I learned about my mother's abuse from my grandmother (my father's mother who knew my mom's family before she was born) when I was 17.  This kindly old lady was trying to explain to me the reasons for my mother's alcoholism and destructive behavior.  

        Mom passed away nearly a decade ago.  We made our peace long before she died, and she tried to make up what she lacked as a mother by being a good grandmother.

        Thank you for your wonderfully kind words on her behalf.
        I too wish she had not been abused; For me, I can only say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and I left that life behind a long time ago.

        I should point out that I could never have escaped my family and built a life without the help I received from government social programs.  Yes, I was on welfare.  Just long enough to get some education (with a Pell Grant) and feed my kids (food stamps) until I could land a good job, which I did, nearly 20 years ago.

        The best legacy we could give my mom would be to send people like my grandfather to the depths of hell, and save the institutions that allowed her daughter and grandchildren to escape to a better life.

        OWOWFO (Old White Ohio Woman for Obama) -7.00, -5.38 Support ePluribus Media

        by Jesus was a Liberal on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 11:11:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I join you (4.00 / 28)

    Somehow I missed your first diary, so let me add to this one.  My husband is the son of Jews who were fortunate enough to escape German in the latter days of the 1930s, just before the doors slammed shut to immigration.  My mother-in-law recently turned 90 and is still as alert and informed as anyone can be.

    While she and her husband (plus her brother, her mother and father, her husband's brother) were all able to escape, many member of her family were not.  My mother-in-law and her family were initially denied entry to the US, so they lived for a while in Brazil.  Her 92-year-old brother put down roots in Brazil and is still there today.

    I have been interested in genealogy for years, so a couple of years back I sat down with my mother-in-law to collect as much information as I could about her family and that of her husband.  I knew that one day my children would consider this information to be like a gift of gold.  I methodically covered the members of her family, asking about birthdates, spouses, dates of marriages, and dates of death.  One by one she told me about her sister, her sister's husband, her sister's children, then her other sister, that sister's husband, that sister's children.  Over and over, I had to enter "Died in death camp -- date unknown."  

    Then, she pulled out a old scrapbook and she took out pictures.  The first one she showed me was her sister, taken when she was in her twenties.  I looked at this picture of her sister and saw my daughter's eyes looking back at me.  I was devastated.

    As I said, my mother-in-law is as sharp as anyone would hope to be at age 90.  She watches the news and understands what's going on.  When we were visiting her last November right after the election, I asked her what she thought of Bush and his people.  "No good,"  she said.  "They worry me."  I asked why and she make it clear that she sees too many parallels emerging in our country to the repression and hatred that existed as she was growing up in Germany.

    I hope to God we can learn from people like my mother-in-law, who may be better able than anyone else to identify the warning signals in our society.

    •  forgive me (none / 1)

      but now that my emotional reaction has played out, i'm getting political.

      how do we get that meme out there - that modern day america is reminiscent of nazi germany - i mean, really, as in people who were there should know, not just sensationalist OMG Bu$H is eth H17l3r!!one!

      that is something the world needs to hear ad nauseum.

      "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

      by Cedwyn on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 08:11:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  this has my mom (4.00 / 2)

    in tears.  And made me well up.

    never, ever, again..

  •  Tears (none / 0)

    Having been moved by your original post already, today I sit here with tears streaming down my cheeks.  Truly amazing.

    When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart. - Emerson

    by foolrex on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 03:22:01 PM PDT

  •  Wow. (4.00 / 2)

    Just...wow.  Thanks for sharing such a remarkable story.

    Rally 'round the famly with a pocket full of shells.

    by advisorjim on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 03:26:05 PM PDT

  •  Tears, too (4.00 / 28)

    I can't stop crying about this miracle.  What an amazing, remarkable story of the grandchildren of such tortured and brave men who find each other so many miles and so many years from when their grandfathers fatefully encountered one another.

    What a miracle that, with all of the diaries on DailyKos that fly by every day, Betty would happen to read yours.

    What a miracle that Betty's grandfather would remember your grandfather's name enough to teach it to his family, and that she would actually type it in her email to you.

    There is some major cosmic gift here, beyond the DailyKos readers that you have moved with this story.  I can't wait to watch what good will come from this fateful meeting.

    I think this is the most amazing diary I've ever read on DailyKos.  It's not only front-page material; it should be the front page of every newspaper in America.  The triumph of love and courage over hate, two generations later, and how the online community helped you find each other.  Bless you both.  

    I don't know if I've ever witnessed a true miracle before this one, but I know I have now.

  •  You've just done (4.00 / 13)

    an immeasurable service to this country as well as to all those who have fallen victim to the genocidal impulses of societies gone crazy...Nazi Germany, Rwanda, Sudan...these are all instances of countries in which hatemongers bartered societal eruptions of fear, moral relativity, and ultimately violence, to gain and retain power.  Thanks for your sage reminder of what "treasonous liberal" and "demonic gay" rhetoric can so quickly and easily disintegrate into.  I'm with you in your pledge that we will one day live in a world in which bartering hate is punished, not rewarded with high governmental positions.  

    Highly recommended.

  •  Good to remember (4.00 / 3)

    also a reminder that very little has been settled in the Sudan.

    Strengthen what remains

    by litero on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:03:27 PM PDT

  •  Sometimes I wonder (4.00 / 5)

    if those things of value that seemingly go unnoticed make a difference.

    Today, I can say, yes, they do make a difference.

    Thank you for sharing.  This site is a wonderful place.

  •  what can I say but (4.00 / 3)

    how amazingly powerful that story is.

    Thank you, as a gay man, as a father, thank you.

    The story and your resolve made me cry and have bit more hope.

    Daddy, Papa & Me: Two dads, a daughter & the politics of it all.

    by wclathe on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:08:55 PM PDT

  •  The saddest url in the world (4.00 / 2)

    blog updated 6-1
    one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

    by DuctapeFatwa on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:10:00 PM PDT

  •  Thank you. (none / 1)

    We must never let the world forget.
  •  Stories like this.. (4.00 / 5)

    ..only re-affirm a promise I made years ago..that I would not allow injustice to stand..that I would do whatever possible to help my fellow (wo)man..

    My girlfriend is Jewish, and I know that her grandparents dealt with this firsthand. I hope never to have to experience that. I hope no one else ever has to.

    Thank you for your sharing.

    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." - MLK

    by amayernx on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:13:08 PM PDT

  •  Holy Wow, Batman (none / 0)

    That just gave me the goosebumps.
  •  Passing the kleenex around... (4.00 / 9)

    I'm most touched by the fact that your grandfather never told of his heroism to anyone, that it is a fact he kept largely to himself.  

    I hope that you will share your meeting with BettyG with us.  

    I've never read anything like this.  As others have said, truly a miracle.

  •  An amazing story (4.00 / 8)

    I'm heartened and humbled and in awe of this powerful connection you made. Thank you for having the strength and conviction to share your story in the original diary, and to share with all of us the miracle that it has wrought.

    What keeps bringing me back to this place are all the people here I've come to know and love, the friendships we've built, and the little pieces of each others' lives that we share. Your story confirms for me what a very, very special place this is. It also confirms for me the potential of what we can all do together. My words are failing me. Just now that I am so encouraged and gladdened by your story.

    "There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." - John Adams.

    by mcjoan on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 04:19:52 PM PDT

  •  I promise, too. n/t (4.00 / 4)

    Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos