Daily Kos

UTAH RAVERS TREATED LIKE TERRORISTS!

by Apollo

Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:30:30 PM PDT

UTAH RAVERS TREATED LIKE TERRORISTS! EVOL INTENT'S ACCOUNT OF THE INCIDENT!

Originally Posted by knick evl ntnt

Last night, I was booked to play an event about an hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. The hype behind this show was huge, they presold 700 tickets and they expected up to 3,000 people total. The promoters did an amazing job with the show.. they even made slipmats with the flyers on them to promote in local shops.

So, we got to the show around 11:15 or so and it was really cool. It was all outdoors, in a valley surrounded by huge mountains. They had an amazing light show flashing on to a mountain behind the site, the sound was booming, the crowd was about 1500 people thick and everything just seemed too good to be true really. Well...

At about 11:30 or so, I was standing behind the stage talking with someone when I noticed a helicopter pulling over one of the mountain tops. I jokingly said "Oh look, here comes big brother" to the person I was with. I wasn't far off.

The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a minute. As I looked back towards the crowd I saw a guy dressed in camoflauge walking by, toting an assault rifle. At this point, everyone was fully aware of what was going on . A few "troops" rushed the stage and cut the sound off and started yelling that everyone "get the fuck out of here or go to jail". This is where it got really sticky.

No one resisted. That's for sure. They had police dogs raiding the crowd of people and I saw a dog signal out a guy who obviously had some drugs on him. The soldiers attacked the guy (4 of them on 1), and kicked him a few times in the ribs and had their knees in his back and sides. As they were cuffing him, there was about 1000 kids trying to leave in the backdrop, peacefully. Next thing I know, A can of fucking TEAR GAS is launched into the crowd. People are running and screaming at this point. Girls are crying, guys are cussing... bad scene.

Now, this is all I saw with my own eyes, but I heard plenty of other accounts of the night. Now this isnt gossip I heard from some candy raver, these are instances cited straight out of the promoters mouth..

  • One of the promoters friends (a very small female) was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her. 3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH.

  • The police confiscated 3 video tapes in total. People were trying to document what was happening out there. The police saw one guy filming and ran after him, tackled him and his camera fell, and luckily.. his friend grabbed it and ran and got away. priceless footage. That's not all though. Out of 1,500 people, there's sure to be more footage.

  • The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead and said "get the fuck out of here right now."

Now.. let's get the facts straight here.

This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards for possession.

Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit against the city for something similar. A few months ago, she rented her land for a party and the police raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced her to LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right. They didnt arrest her, but made her leave her own property!!!

Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so they made it happen. Even though everything about this event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on this show and did everything they had to to make it legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group of radical neo-con's with an agenda.

This was one of the scariest things I have ever witnessed in person. I can't even begin to describe how surreal it was. Helicopters, assault rifles, tear gas, camoflauge-wearing soldiers.... why? Was that really necessary?

This needs to be big news across the USofA. At least in our music scene (edm as a whole)... this could happen to any of us at any time. When we're losing the right to gather peacefully, we're also letting the police set a standard of what we can get away with. And I think that's BULLSHIT!

The system fucked up last night... They broke up a party that was 100% legal and they physically hurt a lot of people there at the same time. The promoters already have 6 lawsuits ready to file with their lawyers and the ACLU is already involved.

I'm sure some pictures (and hopefully some video) will surface soon. I'll make sure to post them up here on 404, so you can see the Police State of America at work.

p.s. - there are more stories of police brutality that i'll post up later. gotta hit the airport soon. can't wait to get the fuck out of this shit hole state.

www.buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php

SHERIFF'S STATEMENT: http://www.utahcountyonline.org/News/DeptNewsDetails.asp?ID=17759&WN_System=SHERIFF

VIDEO: http://homepage.mac.com/apexgrin/FileSharing2.html

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 329 comments

  •  damnit (4.00 / 2)

    As a person who enjoys raves (but does so drug free thank you) this really pisses me off. Its hard enough to find good parties with decent music without having the cops bust them. Every single rave I have ever been to has been shut down, and everytime I was threatened with arrest even after I was searched (with no results,like I said, drug free). I didn't realize liking electronica music was a crime now.

    by wmandevi on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:44:49 PM PDT

    •  if it ain't Country Music (none / 1)

      it's a Crime

      "My case is alter'd, I must work for my living." Moll Cut-Purse, The Roaring Girl - 1612, England's First Actress

      by theRoaringGirl on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:57:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I dunno (1.71 / 39)

      Anyone still raving 10-15 years after it's subcultural relavance probably deserves to get arrested. Extra fines for fat pants, shell toes, spoiled cokehead trance dj's, and white kids with dreadlocks.
      Hell, leave it to Utah to be this utterly disconnected I guess.

      "The truth may be puzzling. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true." -Carl Sagan

      by astronautagogo on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 02:43:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is this snark (none / 0)

        or are you just being an ass?

        Help me reach my Goal!

        by sgilman on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:13:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Snark maybe... (none / 0)

          But Utah County in Utah is not part of the United States.  It is part of the Kingdom of God and the orders are given by BYU and the Lords of Darkness from the campus.  If BYU Students were involved even to the point of considering attendance at such a counter-Utah-County-culture event, then those arrested are in for some water boarding, kicks and stress positions.  Don't believe it.  Try living in Utah County for even 10 days with your liberal views and see the rail that you get ridden out on.  Rock on baby!

          by Brother Dave on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:49:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  proud utah co. liberal for 13 years... (none / 1)

            ..no rails ridden.

            grow up.

            John McCain Defends Bush's Iraq Strategy.

            by jethropalerobber on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:49:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So are you (4.00 / 8)

              Going to bat for these kids rights? Or does your liberalism the safe kind that ends on election day?

              Hint: in dealing with your more conservative neighbors, argue not only anout the Free Speech and Assembly issues, but also the fiscal irresponsibility of the Sheriff and whoever in the Courthouse clique is backing him. "All we're going to accomplish here is to make these kids' attorneys rich."

              In the Violation of Civil Rights under Color of Law" action which should ensue, you collect danmages PLUS Attorneys Fees. If I were a Utah County taxpayer, I'd be demanding that the County admit wrongdoing immediately, and settle, rather than running up hundreds of thousands in billable hours.

              Is anyone running against the Sheriff? Ready to be a hero?

              This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
              This is only a test.
              If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

              by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:28:26 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you rock dude (none / 0)

                always on topic and on target

                and you never let them squirm away

                don't ever change

                8All Hail Ben Masel*

                by knowthings on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:37:09 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm a sucker for complements. (4.00 / 2)

                  Don't stop.

                  This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
                  This is only a test.
                  If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

                  by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:45:03 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  you remind me of Abbie Hoffman (none / 0)

                    what can I say

                    glad to know you're still fighting against the man

                    we need more like you

                    by knowthings on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:50:39 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Abbie, me, the Booking Seargant (4.00 / 2)

                      After I was arrested at the '96 Dem convention, the Booking Seargant at Central Lockup exclaimed "Abbie!" ...

                      Turns out he'd been in his 1st week of work when Abbie was brought in in '68, and was 2 weeks shy of retirement when we met.

                      Waxing nosatalgic, he expressed his regret at failing to get an autograph from Abbie, asked about getting mine. He sent his rookie out to grab a stack of the current Tribune, w my pic on the  front of the Metro section. We cut a deal wherein I'd autograph 12 for his nieces and nephews. In return, I could use the payphones until I ran out of quarters. (Always carry a roll of quarters in potential arrest situations.)

                      It turns out the special phone lines strung up for the Convention media had been rigged so that you couldn't reach them from pay phones.

                      This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
                      This is only a test.
                      If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

                      by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 02:14:27 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Masel-tov (4.00 / 2)

                  You bet!  I love the way you put their feet to the fire, Ben.

                  -X, -Y

                  by nittacci on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:56:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  thus far (none / 1)

                i haven't seen any reason for a good liberal to get exercised about what happened to these party-goers.

                the diarist makes some big claims, most of which he admits are nothing more than second-hand rumors, with nothing to back it up but some hazy video showing some very calm police and some very calm DJs and a few guys getting busted for possession.

                the diarist's claim that the organizers had all the proper permits is dubious and contradicted by more reputible reporting from the tribune. also, i saw on the local news the pile of contraband weapons and drugs they collected from party-goers. if i thought the charges of massive use of excessive force were legitimate, i would complain. at this point i'm not convinced.

                but hey, it's fun to bash a red state, so what the hell.

                John McCain Defends Bush's Iraq Strategy.

                by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 08:10:07 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Your skepticism is understandable... (none / 0)

                  We were both kinda kneejerk yesterday, so lets dig further for more facts. seen the Trib's followup story yet?

                  This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
                  This is only a test.
                  If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

                  by ben masel on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 09:28:00 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  pile of contraband weapons and drugs (none / 0)

                  The promoters hired security to confiscate drugs and weapons from attendees at the door. They apparently were doing a very good job of this. When the cops raided they arrested the security guards for possession. There's your pile of contraband weapons and drugs.

                  If you know of some other way for a promoter to be more responsible about this I'd like to hear it. It sure as hell seems a lot more thorough on the promoters part than you typically see at concerts or sporting events.

                  by leonS on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 09:59:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Geeez (4.00 / 2)

          He's clearly just being an arse (ass). But I find it funny, and I am well into my electronic music. Lay off the troll ratings, he doesn't deserve that. I gave him a 4 for balance.

          One can't spell MEAT without EAT and ME.

          by leberquesgue on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:09:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Whoa whoa (3.57 / 7)

        Lighten up, I was clearly just being a smart ass.
        1 ratings? Boy some y'all are just REALLY uptight.
        Look, the ravers should NOT have be arrested or harrased by the police ok?

        They SHOULD have however, been arrested & taken to task by the fashion police.

        "The truth may be puzzling. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true." -Carl Sagan

        by astronautagogo on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:49:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Gotta type "Snark" (4.00 / 5)

          Some people hit he troll button long before they get the joke.

          Maybe if you typed in a more snide font......

          Gotta make it somehow on the dreams we still believe. - R. Hunter.

          by mungley on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:16:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  fuck you, asswipe (2.14 / 7)

          don't discredit or belittle the victims. your reaction deserved to be hidden.

          by heterodoxy on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 12:41:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh yeah (none / 0)

            my 'I love the 90's' parody humor is TOTALLY offensive and clearly "belittles" the victims and is out of line here!
            However, i'm glad to see that calling fellow progressive activists "Asswipes",  telling them to "fuck off" and troll rating them for having a snark is totally cool!
            Hooray!

            "The truth may be puzzling. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true." -Carl Sagan

            by astronautagogo on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:42:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you must not dance (none / 0)

              I'm one of those ravers from 15 years ago who still goes out into the desert for full moon parties.  I haven't seen any of the fashion disasters you wrote about - just because you stopped going to the events doesn't mean everyone is still wearing the same as the last time you went... so your snark was dumb.

              Do you go to church?  I do, and it's when I dance.  It makes me sick to my stomach that the good people of Utah see fit to make my religion illegal.  I'm sorry it will be so much harder for the people in Utah to find the peace and connection that I've been able to find.

              In short, you have no idea what you're talking about.  But your apology is accepted.

              barn's burnt down; now i can see the moon - Basho

              by sfgary on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:55:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Of course they're going to shut down (none / 0)

                your religion. Duh! Your religion involves cherishing your body, having a good time and not hurting anyone else. How anathema could that be to the Utah Lords of Darkness? My "Bob," if people out there actually got wind of how much fun they could have just grooving to music, the patriarch would never get his glass of warm milk!

                by felagund on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 03:29:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I didn't apologize (4.00 / 2)

                but since you want to take it there....it's like this:
                Brit glam was to cock rock what the manchester rave scene is to the american rave scene....a tacky, dumber version of the original.
                Just my personal opinon, so why don't you give me another troll rating for disagreeing with your "religon" dude!
                 

                "The truth may be puzzling. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true." -Carl Sagan

                by astronautagogo on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 04:23:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  you're not progressive (none / 0)

              to defend a comment like that. this is a serious issue, and you want to discredit the young people, in any way. you are an asswipe.

              by heterodoxy on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 02:47:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Newflash (none / 0)

                Your a complete meathead. What have you done for these Utah kids that i haven't? Write facist blog comments, policing who's progressive and who's not, because we different on a sense of humor?
                Jerk.

                "The truth may be puzzling. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true." -Carl Sagan

                by astronautagogo on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 09:57:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Just because (none / 0)

        you're a stick in the mud and jealous of kids having some fun,doesn't mean the cops have a right to bust up a legal gathering.

        "In a time of universal deceit -- telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

        by mint julep on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:46:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  yes, well (none / 0)

        goodness knows everybody quit producing music once rave culture broke through to mainstream!  now that everybody's on the tip, everybody has to abandon their art because raves are no longer "edgy"?  

        you. are a. dork.

        "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

        by Cedwyn on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 03:44:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "Every single rave" (none / 0)

       "I have ever been to has been shut down..."

        Wait a minute- can you elaborate on that? How many is every single? Shut down violently in the early stages? Am I missing some huge, not-being-covered story because I like Bluegrass, not electronica? Or are you exaggerating? We have the right to peaceably assemble. What's really going on here?

      "...yet didn't Mr Windrip speak beautifully about pure language, church attendance, low taxation, and the American flag?" Don't Let It Happen Here

      by nhwriter on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:18:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually... (4.00 / 5)

        ...many states and municipalities have passed subtle laws aimed specifically at curtailing raves. The problem, as law enforcement sees it, is that this does not fall under the umbrella of right to assembly because there really IS a massive amount of illegal substance and sexual abuse that occurs at them. I have never been to a rave where drugs were not extensively made available and consumed, mostly by underage individuals, who probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

        I'm all for people having the right to party. However, as a former raver, I'll be the first to admit that these parties were about music, sex, and drugs. Reports of 'date rapes' and people hopping underage girls up on ecstacy and then convincing them to have sex with a small group of people aren't an exaggeration: this happened at EVERY rave I've ever attended at least once, and often multiple times, as I can attest to from personal experience. The fact is, when you sign up and receive the mass gathering permit (if one was possessed), you are bound by the same rules as establishments. In an establishment, if an underage individual is caught drinking, or if there is drug distribution occuring in any way, the establishment can be shut down. If there is more than one or two instances of it occuring, then chances are 100% that it WILL be shut down, no question. At a rave of 1500, you could likely look in any direction and see a dozen violations, regardless of the security procedures.

        I don't agree with the way that the police handled the situation. To be honest, police in Utah and norotiously unforgiving of youth who wish to express themselves in any way that doesn't conform to their conservative mindeset. Harrassment, intolerance, and the threat and reality of violence are all evident if you choose to go against the grain in much of the state. Whether they had the right to shut down the rave may not be in question, the method they chose to do it was
        questionable at BEST, and totalitarian at worst.

        And yes, every rave but ONE I have been to has been shut down forcibly by police, and every time they were legally entitled to do so, but I've never been met with this type of unacceptable brutality.

        --------------
        Condemnant qui non intelligent.
        Economic: -6.75
        Social : -5.03

        by cognizant on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:44:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Utah County ordinance (4.00 / 2)

          Footnotes indicate it was amended in 1971, so it appears to have been originally aimed at hippies, rather than ravers.

          The similar Wisconsin ordinances all originally kicked in at 5000 attendees. When they proved inadequate to prevent the Weedstock festibals in 1990, they were amended to lower thresholds by most of our Counties.

          This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
          This is only a test.
          If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

          by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:49:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  thanks, that was interesting. (none / 0)

          And the post below yours was too. The Bluegrass festivals I have been to ranged from 100 to 10,000 peaple, and at the big ones there was weed in the air everywhere after dark, and occasionally during the day, and plenty of alcohol of all kinds, even though there were infant through great grandparents there. Peace, love, and lots of loud bouncy music, although the sex part was much more discreet if it was going on at all. Maybe it's the ecstacy in particular that contributes to the wildness? Or is there a big enough age-range of people to keep it toned down? Maybe it's just the all-night nature of the crowd event. At bluegrass they play and drink all night but they take it back to the tent sites to do that part. Don't know, just trying to figure it out.

          "...yet didn't Mr Windrip speak beautifully about pure language, church attendance, low taxation, and the American flag?" Don't Let It Happen Here

          by nhwriter on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:03:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ecstacy and wildness?? (none / 0)

            5 years ago I was hired to help with a 5,000 person outdoor rave in Central WI. Most of the "Security" were bar bouncers, packed it in at 2:30, leaving just me and Jack to cover 3,000 kids up tripping. He covered the gate, so I was alone on the grounds. I didn't find much actual trouble to deal with. By my experience as the "responsible adult," ecstacy by itself does not produce irresponsible behavior. You do get problems when it's taken with booze, and especially in 3-way combination with booze and nitrous oxide (laughing gas.)

            This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
            This is only a test.
            If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

            by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:40:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Damn. Too late... (4.00 / 4)

          The fact is, when you sign up and receive the mass gathering permit (if one was possessed), you are bound by the same rules as establishments. In an establishment, if an underage individual is caught drinking, or if there is drug distribution occuring in any way, the establishment can be shut down. If there is more than one or two instances of it occuring, then chances are 100% that it WILL be shut down, no question.
          Shoulda hired a couple of dealers to attend the Republican Convention...

          by AndreMA on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:18:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Narc (4.00 / 3)

        If every rave he's been to has been shut down, then maybe he's an undercover cop. :)

        Dennis Perrin's Savage Mules: The Democrats and Endless War

        by darrelplant on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:54:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, (none / 1)

      ..what I think is so threatening to the authorities is the rave credo: PLUR.

      What could be more dangerous to (our present)authorities than a generation freely exercising peace, love, understanding and respect?

      you were sick, but now you're well again and there's work to do- vonnegut

      by zzyzx on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:26:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I've seen worse than that (4.00 / 5)

      I once had an event shut down (outdoor arts festival ala Burning Man on MUCH smaller Scale) just because the Sheriff, said it was Rave  before the event even happened!  We'd rented a private campground for the event, sold about 100 tickets (like I said SMALL event) and the Friday afternoon before we opened the gates the local sheriff went to a friendly judge and got an injunction forbidding the "illegal rave" because such events promoted drug use.  This was despite the fact that we'd rented a licensed campground, gotten insurance etc.  We inquired what precisely made our event a rave (music, type of music what?) and offered to remove that element but all to no avail; and because it was a prelim injunction there was no way to contest it.  Of Course we WERE entitled to a hearing on the underlying complaint, but that was on the Monday after the event when the county attorney promptly dismissed the case as moot.

      The Irony of all this was that the next weekend the Greatful Dead played the Exact same Area  with the blessing of the same county officials.

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:33:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Overturning injunctions (4.00 / 2)

        "and because it was a prelim injunction there was no way to contest it"

        that's when you make a run to either the State Appellate Court, or US District Court. Challenging for an Attorney who's not already familiar with this area of law to get up to speed, but I've coached a few thru the process.

        This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
        This is only a test.
        If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

        by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:56:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nowadays I'd have tried that (none / 0)

          but back then I was a lolwy law student who just happened to be on the organzing committee and was not feeling like I had the Chops for a pro-se appellate appearance.

          Well I saw the ACLU booth at the County fair this weekend, but this sort of thing reminds me I need to do more than just wear their sticker and join their mailing list.

          Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

          by Magorn on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:00:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Free Assembly legal practice. (none / 0)

            Given that there's awards of Damages plus Attorneys fees, this stuff has become a rather lucrative legal specialty. The catch is, you put in the hours first, and may have to wait a couple years for the payoff.

            This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
            This is only a test.
            If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

            by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:26:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  With special thanks to (4.00 / 8)



      I didn't realize liking electronica music was a crime now.

      It's been effectively a crime for a while now.

      Thanks, among other things, to Joe Biden (D-MBNA) and the RAVE Act.

      You've heard the expression that "with friends like these, who needs enemies?"

      With Democrats like Biden (and Feinstein, and the other D fans of intrusive busybody law enforcement), who needs Republicans?

      I'm a libertarian who is still, despite my loathing for the Bush junta, resistant to ally with the Democratic party on anything other than a reluctantly tactical basis -- and the endorsement of methods such as the ones detailed here, by Democrats, confirms me in that belief.

      by marquer on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:37:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  RAVE Act (4.00 / 7)

        Had it passed as origially drafted, and passed by the Senate, would ave authorised the Sheriff's acts.

        However, the House Judiciary Committee passed amendments limiting the original bill, which require a hearing before a Federal Judge, and evidence that the organizers were complicit in illegal drug activity, before a pre-emptive strike by law enforcement.

        Representatives Baldwin, Franks, Conyers, Nadler, and Sensenbrenner(!) deserve credit for the limiting amendment, with Durbin, Feingold, and Leahy key to it's inclusion in the Conference Committee.

        By all means, bash Biden, Feinstein, Schumer and Kohl on this one, but SOME Dems shined.

        This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
        This is only a test.
        If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

        by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:41:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (4.00 / 3)

        As a Democrat who believes individual liberty is more important than any other political issue (and who attended Rainbow Peoples Party outdoor music celebrations in the early 70s where there were certainly drugs, and an entirely positive atmosphere) I believe the only way Democrats will regain a majority in America is if we totally embrace individual (and group) freedoms in a way that will bring most of the Libertarians onboard.

        Freedom of association is in the Constitution, damn it.

        by wytcld on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:23:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  As Joan Jett once said (4.00 / 2)

        "You don't lose when you lose fake friends."

        Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

        by Bob Quixote on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:52:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Back in the '60s (none / 1)

      "The Man can't bust our music" was a CBS Records slogan. I guess that's not true anymore.

      Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

      by Bob Quixote on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:50:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  America, where are you now? (none / 1)

      America where are you now?
      Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
      Don't you know we need you now
      We can't fight alone against the monster

      from Steppenwolf's Monster

      by wf on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 11:37:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This site drives me crazy... (none / 0)

    One minute I read something uplifting and beautiful, then I read something like this and get depressed.

    It's a LONG road toward the America we hope to live in, because things don't change overnight. Hopefully incidents like this will become less common as time goes by.

    Climbing the Ladder - my American soccer blog

    by scaryice on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:45:38 PM PDT

  •  misguided as always (4.00 / 7)

    what a huge service it would be to law enforcement if we would stop the bullshit war on drugs.  i know that is off topic, but they bust raves b/c of suspected drug use.  whatever.

    the point is the government does not have any business telling me how to have fun (if i am not infriging upon the rights of anyone else) and certainly has no business doing so at gunpoint.

    visit www.thehungersite.com everyday to save lives

    by Stampy51 on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:46:08 PM PDT

  •  Damn, thats fucked. (none / 1)

    Hopefully we can get some of the footage up. What was up with the camoflage? This just blows my mind. Robert Anton Wilson was in on a train East Germany on a train in the 70's, when he had his papers siezed by a couple of brownshirts. He said that when you actually see fascism first hand, it looks like twisted parody / satire of what you'd imagine real fascism to be.

    "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" -Roddy Piper

    by McGirk SF on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:48:29 PM PDT

    •  it's fucked (none / 1)

      but so difficult to fight .. the way it is presented, a dangerous situation where underage kids are given booze and drugs .. then who knows right?

      yeah, that does happen, but authority figures are not in the business of preventing it as much as they are in maintaining their authority.  otherwise, they would do their best to encourage legal events that follow proper safety guidelines.

      instead of cracking down/fighting/arresting on young people, maybe they ought to try working with them because a safe environment for everyone is in everyone's best interest.

      *sigh it's easy to take civil liberties in the name of protecting the children.

      effective?  only in swaying public opinion.  young people will find their drugs and parties no matter what.  why not work with them to make things safer?

      visit www.thehungersite.com everyday to save lives

      by Stampy51 on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:52:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  was it a 18 and over show? (none / 0)

        I live in San Francisco, so when you live in Babylon, you tend to forget about children showing up. There are very few children in this city.

        I have gone to some raves outside the city and noticed that there were kids there. I, personaly, don't feel comfortable being around that. They obviously should wait till there adults, but that just dosen't happen. It may or may not be better than getting shitfaced every weekend, which is what me and my friends all did growing up, but I perfer not to be around younger crowds.

        "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" -Roddy Piper

        by McGirk SF on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:40:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's interesting. I happen to be a fairly firm (4.00 / 8)

          believer in generational theory which implies among other things that the children of certain generations are coddled and protected more than others, but as a parentless member of the notoriously unwanted generation x I still find our treatment of today's young people a wee bit strange. Those of us born in the 60s and 70s were raised in a culture of extreme laissez faire parenting, and were to no small extent left to fend for ourselves from a very early age (the whole latchkey kid thing; the generation coming up now is barely left alone for five minutes or given an "unstructured" moment during the day). A lot of us were staying out all night by thirteen or fourteen, getting laid, and ingesting all manner of strange substances. Some of us came to bad ends, but most did not, and the culture at large tolerated if not encouraged our freedom and risk taking (those "after school specials" weren't meant to glamorize heroin addiction and teen prostitution and bulimia were they? right...).

          My point here is that while the culture of parenting and youth changes according to the generations in charge (and not in charge), people really don't. I see no reason why kids today are any less congenitally capable of making decisions and taking risks without ending up in jail or the morgue than my generation was.

          Just my two cents...

          "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S Thompson

          by spot on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 12:23:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  speaking of generational (double) standards (none / 0)

            the Stones concert at Fenway went off last night without a hitch!

            Here in stoner capital USA, no less.

            by bluesteel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 04:34:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Generation X and Generation Y (none / 1)

            Your comments on Gen-X (of which I'm also a member) and the disconnect that seems to exist between us and the "Baby Boomlet" of Generation Y that followed makes me recall this column that I read a few years ago where a Generation Y person opined that Generation X had it easy while Generation Y was getting screwed.

            I sent her an email after I read this and told her that the "Seasick, Yet Still Docked" feeling (for any Morrissey fans out there) she had at 25 wasn't so different from that felt by the Gen-Xers she seemed to envy, or for that matter probably just about any other generation.  You hit adulthood, cut the final tethers to the parents and your past, flail around a bit, and gradually muddle through.

            I think I missed all that good stuff she's talking about here :)  

            Think about this: Gen X'ers, our predecessors in age groups, were 25 when the internet was booming, the economy was rising and wars were so far removed from our daily life that they barely made it to the back page of the Op-Ed section. As far as I am concerned they had it made. They graduated from college, traveled to Europe, backpacked, tanned nude on the Riviera, returned home and decided to begin a little startup company with a few of their friends. By the time they reached 25, a handful were millionaires. This is not the case for my age group; we are those suffering the "quarter life crisis". We are lost, unemployed, overeducated, curious and most of all we are confused.

            I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. I took my parents very seriously when they said, "You can be anything you want to be." I was an actress, a writer, and currently I am a fundraiser and now I want to go to Law School to become a social commentarian. Is this "wishy-washy" attitude a familial problem or a societal one? My parents are to blame because they gave me free reign over my career. Society is to blame for it allows me to blame my parents for my failures. That is the beauty of this age group, I don't have to take the blame -- I displace it with a grand sense of intellectual philosophy.

            by cappy on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:49:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  that makes me want to vomit (none / 0)

              "That is the beauty of this age group, I don't have to take the blame -- I displace it with a grand sense of intellectual philosophy."

              yup, that's gen-y in a nutshell.

              John Cornyn is an asshole with shoes. Support Rick Noriega!

              by anna on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:10:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Gen-y is what age group? (none / 0)

              Im 19 so I dont know if that puts me as a Y or Z, but I disagree in the strongest possible way with:

              My parents are to blame because they gave me free reign over my career. Society is to blame for it allows me to blame my parents for my failures. That is the beauty of this age group, I don't have to take the blame -- I displace it with a grand sense of intellectual philosophy.

              That attitude is what stops her from being where she wants to be.  She needs to slow down, live in the moment, smell the roses, and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HERSELF.  

              Someone told me once "you cant fix what you arent responsible for."  As long as my parents or society is what holds me back from acomplishing what I want, I will never achieve my goal.

              by Hari Rothstein on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:21:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  The notion that gen y has had it harder than (none / 1)

              gen x is just poppycock. While its true that generation x had more freedom as young people than any generation since the lost generation (born in the 1880s and 1890s) the downsides are significant. As with the losts, our freedom derived largely from our unwantedness. We were left to raise ourselves in a cultural climate of extreme laissez faire. Public schools for xers were increasingly defunded and authoritarian (no small part of the reason I evenutally left the system), but there were plenty of sparkling new prisons to warehouse us. Despite the fact that crime rates actually began to drop when the first xers reached adulthood in the 1979, the new boomer political class began to get tough on us for the same crimes they had committed with relative impunity from the end of the 1950s to the end of the 1970s. An extreme percentage of those incarcerated today (in conditions worse than anywhere else in the developed world, and worse than in many developing countries) are xers.

              By the time xers (born between roughly 1961 and 1980/81) reached adulthood, inflation in the cost of higher education and housing had risen to obscene levels. We were too young to get in on the ground floor of the long boom that began in the early 1980s, and few would get much out of the stock options being offered in lieu of good pay and pensions. Epidemic numbers of xers are overeducated and underemployed. Few have or will ever know real wage security. We are a generation of temps and contractors. Welfare benefits have been cut for us. Progressive taxation has languished for us (to say nothing of how the tax cuts by the boomer elites are really just a delayed tax increase on us). Bankruptcy "reform" will likely cause millions of deeply indebted xes the worst pain. And when the boomers begin to retire, we can expect double if not triple digit tax increases on us to pay for their entitlements. And so on...

              "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S Thompson

              by spot on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 03:55:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Wow (none / 0)

                I was born on 11/2/76 and I don't identify exclusively with either gen x or y.  More with x, I guess, but only really because their stereotypes are easier to endure than the boomer and y caricatures.

                Then again, maybe I don't.

                mbr + dv + woyg

                by keirdubois on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 04:42:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  2nd wave xers (born between about 72 and 80) (none / 0)

                  have different defining characteristics than 1st wave xers (born between about 61 and 71), and the closer one gets to the millenial cusp the more like millenials they tend to be (likewise early xers tend to have some boomer qualities). Both 1st and 2nd wave xers tend to be cynical, pragmatic, and adventurous, with a strong sense of honor and powerful libertarian leanings, but 1st wave xers tend to be more right-libertarian or conservatarian (these are the "south Park Republicans"...a plurality of them vote Republican, but for different reasons than the 2nd wave boomers who are also plurality Republican) and 2nd wave xers tend to be more left-libertarian (with a plurality voting Democrat, but for different reasons than the more communitarian-leaning 1st wave millenials who also trend Democrat).  

                  "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S Thompson

                  by spot on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:30:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe Slightly Off Topic... (none / 0)

            But I think that aprt of the problem we have now with the difference between parents and children now is what I call "the parent mindset".  I have noticed that when individuals become parents and start raising children that one of the big problems they have is not being able to relate to their children by using their own experiences as young adults and children to explain their decision making processes.  It's almost as if the parents believe that if they tell their children what THEY did when they were children that it gives their kids a license to defy them.

            Now, I don't have kids (yet), but as a deacon in my church part of my job is assisting the parents in making sure their children understand why their parents do what they do.  As such, I have absolutely no compunctions in being blunt with many of these teenagers on many issues.  I use my experiences growing up in the 70's to show these young ones that what they're experiencing isn't anything new or special.

            I've had very serious discussions about relationships with children, with the parents being there, stressing my junior high and high school experiences as a template on what TO do and what NOT to do.  Not only do the kids get the point, but the parents later thank me for being "real" with the their children.

            As I tell many of them, especially the boys; "So you think that now you're 14 or 15 that we're stupid and don't understand.  When I was 14 or 15 I thought my parents were stupid.  Don't worry, you're time's coming...when your kids are 14 or 15 they'll think YOU'RE stupid too.  There's nothing new under the sun".

            As far as what happened up there in Utah with the police, I am really not surprised.  I grew up in Philly in the late 60's and early 70's, when Frank Rizzo was police commissioner and a certain Arlen Spector was the DA in the middle of the worst gang violence the city had ever seen.  The cops thought NOTHING about busting heads back then.

            The only thing's changed is the firepower.

            Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. --Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

            by Deacon G on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 11:27:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  2 things have changed. (none / 0)

              Videocameras. and the 'Net. (tho we've lost the dead tree underground press.)

              This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
              This is only a test.
              If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

              by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 12:43:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not being a hypocrite (none / 0)

            I just perfer not to personally party with them. The last thing I need is to wake up after a party next to a fifteen year old going "Oh, I fucked up."

            "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" -Roddy Piper

            by McGirk SF on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 01:58:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Freedom of Assembly doesn't start at 18 (4.00 / 2)

          So long as booze isn't sold at the event, the authorities cannot prohibit under 18s, nor need the organizers.

          This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
          This is only a test.
          If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

          by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 01:31:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Just to clarify... (none / 0)

            ...when one receives a mass gathering permit for the purpose of assembling a mass gathering, they are liable for drinking and drug use the occur on the premise of their permit, including underage drinnking. Even i it is not being sold, they are expected to provide adequate screening and security to prevent the consumption of drugs and alcohol, especially among minors. If they are making a good faith effort (a TRUE good faith effort, not just a token effort to look good), they will often find criminal charges dropped and pay only a small fine.

            BUT, Rave organizers don't make a good name for themselves by making good faith efforts at being 'fun nazis'. You'll find very little attempt at curbing usage at Raves.

            --------------
            Condemnant qui non intelligent.
            Economic: -6.75
            Social : -5.03

            by cognizant on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:51:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No mass gathering permit (4.00 / 2)

              at least according to the sheriff's office.

              So who was higher, I wonder: The crowd, or the Extreme Round-up Heroes, permitted at last to use their Homeland Security Hunting Rifles in an ambush of cultural insurgents?

              -7.38, -9.23

              by macdust on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:38:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I'd like to see the same standards applied (4.00 / 4)

              to Garth Brooks concerts and Monster Truck Rallys  but somehow they never are....odd that...

              Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

              by Magorn on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:44:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  "Good faith effort" (4.00 / 3)

              "they will often find criminal charges dropped and pay only a small fine. "

              Or beat the case entirely if they take the effort.

              Rave organizers in this part of the country bring me in to keep law enforcement at bay. I can't stand the music, but that's not the point.

              This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
              This is only a test.
              If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

              by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:05:11 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Are you familiar with (none / 0)

                the State Palace Theatre (New Orleans) and Disco Donnie's legal battles a few years back when he and his promotion team (amongst the most well known in the southeast over the past decade) were put on trial under Operation of Crackhouse laws?

                As you know, it's pretty well documented that the boot dropping down on the rave culture nationwide goes well beyond the simple explanation of "fighting illegal drugs".  It's been a justice dept war against the culture itself, aided by state and local govts all along the way.

                Here's another state palace case....DJ Monk & Rabbit in the Moon vs. John Ashcroft, U.S. Atty General.  

                Here's the link www.aclu.org/Files/getFile.cfm?id=11221

                Amazingly, they beat John Ashcroft in court....only to have it overturned on appeal by the Feds.

                And why the hell isn't the [url text] tag working anymore on here to create links?

                Impeach Presidents Cheney & Bush

                by tlh lib on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 10:01:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  security... (none / 0)

              i dunno where you are from, but here in the midwest, after many high profile busts, promoters have made serious efforts to curb drug use.  for a time, we were even hiring off duty police officers here in indianapolis to work security, until the mayor of our fair city sent down the order that they were not allowed to work events (double standard?  you bet).

              in this day and age, it is sheer IDIOCY to throw a large event and NOT have legitimate security and screening for partygoers.  but, as i have said many times, if drugs find their way into prisons where they are allowed to CAVITY SEARCH, then what are the chances of stopping EVERYTHING from coming into a music event.  not damn likely.  

              yet promoters are being told that they must do something that the entire US GOVERNMENT can't manage to accomplish with all its resources: keep all drugs out.

              riiiiight...

              by djshiva on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 01:56:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Its 1968 all over again! (none / 0)

    n/t

    Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action -1.75 -7.23

    by Shockwave on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:52:21 PM PDT

    •  St Pete (none / 1)

      Have you been following the police harassment in St Petersburg?

      http://stpeteforpeace.org

      One more Justice and John McCain gets his wish.

      by JR on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:00:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Violence is escalating all over the map (none / 1)

        The moment of truth is upon us.

        Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action -1.75 -7.23

        by Shockwave on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:10:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  and (4.00 / 4)

          Let's not forget Delaware: http://progressive.org/?q=mag_mc081905

          Galperin says she heard the trooper ask, "Do you want me to get rid of them?"

          And then the trooper, Delaware State Police Sgt. Mark DiJiacomo, who was on detail as a private security guard, came over to the group of women.

          Here is the conversation, as Galperin remembers it: "You guys have to leave."
          "Why?"

          "Your business is not wanted here. They don't want you here anymore. If you don't leave, you're going to be arrested. If you can't post bail, you'll go to prison. Those of you who are under 18 will go to Ferris [the juvenile detention center]. And those of you over 18 will go either to Gander Hill Prison or the woman's correctional facility. Any questions?"

          Shaffer remembers the conversation basically the same way.

          "I said, `Sir, we're not doing anything wrong. We're sitting in a bookstore. On what grounds would we be arrested?' "

          "He said, `This is private property. Are you going to leave on your own, or are you going to leave in cuffs?"

          Shaffer decided to leave with her friends.

          Galperin and Rocek decided to stay.

          "That's it," he told them, according to Galperin. "You're under arrest. Give me your ID. You're going to prison."

          One more Justice and John McCain gets his wish.

          by JR on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:28:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is different (4.00 / 4)

            The described events are different, and much worse, than overaggressive security in somebody else's store.

            This is an account of an illegal, military-style invasion by a gang posing as law enforcement, of somebody's own property. If they didn't have a proper warrant, they're not cops, they're just thugs.

            We must raise the cost of tyranny.

            by zyx zyx on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:13:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Different Situations/Same Results (none / 1)

              The Deleware & Utah situations were very different. But they still involved cops who acted like thugs.

              It doesn't matter if it's 1 cop or 100 cops...if they are trampling on civil liberties then the story needs to be told.

              It doesn't matter if it's Utah or Deleware or Florida...if the cops are trampling on civil liberties, then the story needs to be told.

              Read the stories
              Nashville
              Nashville
              Florida
              Delaware

              by Ranting Roland on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 11:52:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  It's worse. (4.00 / 4)

      They didn't have SWAT teams in 1968. They had cops, they had national guard, but not the professional hit squads using kids as a training exercise.

      These SWAT guys are human like all of us and have good and bad qualities. I'm sure some are nurturing fathers and loving husbands. But when you choose "professional goon" as your vocation, well I just think the whole uber-cop mentalty is antithetical to democracy.

      by nuttymango on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 02:29:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, iirc, they DID have SWAT teams (4.00 / 4)

        back then.  Indeed, the '60s may be when they invented SWAT teams....I seem to remember S.I. Hayakawa calling the riot police, and later on, the SWAT team to break up demonstrations at San Francisco State.....

        -7.88, -6.72. "Wherever law ends, tyranny begins."--John Locke IMPEACH THE BASTARDS!!!

        by caseynm on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:54:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Crazy.... (none / 0)

    why aren't they using some of these resources to bust meth labs...

    by playon on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 10:58:28 PM PDT

    •  They're mostly (none / 0)

      ... in red districts.  They want to imprison as many blue folks as possible before the next elections...

      "The survival value of intelligence is that it allows us to extinct a bad idea, before the idea extincts us." -- Karl Popper

      by eyeswideopen on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:26:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  concerned about meth? (none / 0)

      from the trib:
      During their two hours at the DJ-driven dance party, undercover officers had observed a multitude of illegal activities including the sale and consumption of drugs such as cocaine, ecstacy, alcohol, methamphetamine and marijuana.
         "The sale of drugs at these parties is so prevalent that at this particular rave party, drugs were offered to local off-duty emergency medical service personnel who were contracted to be there," Gilbert said.

      John McCain Defends Bush's Iraq Strategy.

      by jethropalerobber on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:54:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  NY Times column by Tierney (none / 0)

        See Tierney's column from a few weeks back about the government's uses of meth hysteria. It's a real eye openner (the column, that is).

        by wytcld on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:28:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The lawful remedy (none / 0)

        is arrests of the individuals for whom there was probable cause to believe they  actually distributed controlled substances. this is not the same as violating the Free assembly rights of everyone present at the concert.

        This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
        This is only a test.
        If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

        by ben masel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:33:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i believe that's exactly what they did (none / 0)

          as for free assembly, the organizers did not have a permit. does that not matter?

          John McCain Defends Bush's Iraq Strategy.

          by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 08:20:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've learned more... (none / 0)

            Checked with the promoter...

            The promoter went to the courthouse, asked what permits he'd need. Was told to get the Health Dept. Permit. Asks "Is this it? I don't need anything else?" "No." Then they pull the 34 year old ordinance on him in the middle of the raid. Seems No-One has ever gotten the other permit for any event in the County. The regulation has sat unused and forgotten since the Woodstock era when it  was passed.

            Additionally there's the issue of whether the "Large Assembly Permit" scheme is an unconstitutional abridgement of Free Assembly. The WI Appellate Court agreed with me, that while counties may require Permits for large gatherings, the actual process in this ordinance is flawed in giving the County too much leeway to deny based on the content of the event.

            For instance. if Crawford TX has such a scheme, it could be used to close Camp Casey.

            This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
            This is only a test.
            If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

            by ben masel on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 09:17:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  amazing, isn't it (none / 0)

        How according to the "official sherrif's report" undercover officers can chemically identify powder or pills by sight alone?

        Anyone who has been to a rave can tell you that's not where the meth is.

        by melior on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:05:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Being a raver in Utah... (none / 0)

    ...has got to be hard enough without crap like this.

    MeiLin Miranda in SL
    Your Progressive Homemaking Expert!

    by LynnS on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:08:29 PM PDT

  •  Is there a Cindy Sheehan in Utah? (none / 1)

    Sheehan's tactics are so successful because she clearly has the moral high ground and engages in her protest in a classy, dignified manner. Granted, this situation is a little different from losing one's son in an illegal and immoral war with no apparent purpose other than to further the selfish and cynical goals of a demagogue.

    But who would dare Swift Boat a person who has proof on video of American police officers acting like storm troopers, pointing assault rifles at the foreheads of people who did nothing illegal, beating and kicking innocent people even after they had been (unnecessarily) subdued, sending attack dogs after helpless innocent people, violating all kinds of laws regarding peoples' entitlement to engage in lawful activities for which they had permits, firing a low-grade chemical weapon at innocent people, and doing all of this without even so much as a search warrant or reasonable grounds to suspect even intent to commit a crime?

    (Ok, ok, I know who would do it -- they're the same people who worship at the George W. Bush (TM) altar of self-aggrandizement and massive delusion. And I know you could argue that they had reasonable grounds to believe crimes were being committed, given the prevalence of illegal drug use at raves -- but do you really think you couldn't find examples of illegal drug use at any large gathering? Of course you would, but you never see such tactics used at the NRA convention!)

    Perhaps some people ought to set up camp outside the offices of Utah's governor and US senators until every one of the people who authorized or participated in the raid are arrested, forced to make restitution, and any other sanctions deemed necessary by a judge.

    Seven score and five years ago... -7.62, -6.36

    by wiscmass on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:11:58 PM PDT

    •  You need to spend some time in Utah (none / 0)

      to answer the questions/issues of the first 2 paragraphs of your post.  The Mormon ideal looks tremendously like those cheesy family shows from the '50s and early '60s (Father Knows Best,  Donna Reed, even Leave it to Beaver, etc.,) and anything that poses much of a challenge to it largely 'deserves what it gets'.....

      -7.88, -6.72. "Wherever law ends, tyranny begins."--John Locke IMPEACH THE BASTARDS!!!

      by caseynm on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 11:05:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  WTO protests (none / 0)

      But who would dare Swift Boat a person who has proof on video of American police officers acting like storm troopers, pointing assault rifles at the foreheads of people who did nothing illegal, beating and kicking innocent people even after they had been (unnecessarily) subdued, sending attack dogs after helpless innocent people, violating all kinds of laws regarding peoples' entitlement to engage in lawful activities for which they had permits, firing a low-grade chemical weapon at innocent people, and doing all of this without even so much as a search warrant or reasonable grounds to suspect even intent to commit a crime?

      I have some very nice video documenting exactly what you describe during the 1999 WTO protests in Seattle. Nobody who mattered made a peep about the situation, most of the criticizm was directed at the police department and city for not busting heads sooner.

      Fortunately by the time anti-war protests started in 2002 the police had finally stopped overreacting to every gathering of more than 5 people.

      by ces on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 05:29:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  video link dead... get it here... (4.00 / 7)

    Please save, mirror, share, and distribute this footage--it's amazing. I found this link (16MB .mov) at the end (third page) of the forum posts on buzzlife.

    Apparently we have a recruitment shortage in Iraq because all our other 'boots on the ground' are in Utah, fighting parties--who knew?

    by pb on Sun Aug 21, 2005 at 11:15:59 PM PDT

    •  That movie will gross 10 million (4.00 / 6)

      Not at the box office but in a court of Law.  and no, I'm not exaggerating, If I were a UT lawyer I'd file a class action tomorrow, asking for at least that much.   These people, particularly the tasered women need a lawyer STAT!  

       NYC is just starting to Shell out big bucks for all the caught on tape naughtiness of the RNC convention day; not it looks like its gonna be Utah's turn.  

      The ONLY way to stop blatant civil rights abuse like this is to Sue, repeatedly, and for the maximum amounts possible.  Its a tragedy to say but the city counsel or county authorities who authorized this raid, don't really give a crap about the fact that they violated the civil rights of hundreds of people too young to vote.

      What they Will care about is having the county budget slashed by 20-30% because they have to pay off lawsuit damages.  That's when overzealous (or scapegoatted)  police chiefs suddenly find themselves looking for work

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:54:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]