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My First Time

by CindySheehan

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Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:04:44 PM PST

The rumors are true this time. I was arrested in front of the White House today. It was my first time ever being arrested.
We proceeded from Lafayette Park to the Guard House at the White House. I, my sister, and other Gold Star Families for Peace members and some Military Families requested to meet with the President again. We again wanted to know: What is the Noble Cause? Our request was, to our immense shock and surprise, denied. They wouldn't even deliver any letters or pictures of our killed loved ones to the White House.

We all know by now why George won't meet with parents of the soldiers he has killed who disagree with him. First of all, he hates it when people disagree with him. I am not so sure he hates it as much as he is in denial that it even happens. Secondly, he is a coward who arrogantly refuses to meet with the people who pay his salary. Maybe the next time one of us is asked by our bosses to have a performance review, or we are going to be written up for a workplace infraction, we should refuse to go and talk to our bosses sighting the fact that the President doesn't have to. The third reason why he won't talk to us is the he knows there is no Noble Cause for the invasion and continued occupation of Iraq. It is a question that has no true answer.

After we were refused a meeting with the Disconnected One, we went over to right in front of our house...the White House (behind the gate of course) and we sat down and refused to move until George came out and talked to us. We actually had a good time singing old church songs and old protest songs while we waited. I tied a picture of Casey on the White House fence and apparently, that is against the law, too.

After three warnings to get up and move off of the sidewalk in front of our house, we were arrested. It is so ironic to me that the person who resides in our White House swears to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. The person who is the (p)resident of the White House now has no concept of the Constitution. He was appointed by the Supreme Court for his first term, invaded and continues to occupy a sovereign country without a declaration of war from the Congress, and violated several treaties to actually invade, Iraq too. Not to mention the condoned torture that pervades the military prisons these days. These are all violations of the Constitution. The Patriot Act and denying us our rights to peaceably assemble are serious breaches of the Bill of Rights. George is so concerned about Iraq developing a Constitution and he ignores and shreds our own Constitution.

Being arrested is not a big deal. We were arrested for "demonstrating without a permit." We were protesting something that is much more serious than sitting on a sidewalk: the tragic and needless deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Americans (both in Iraq and here in America) who would be alive if it weren't for the criminals who reside in and work in the White House.

Karl Rove (besides just being a very creepy man) outted a CIA agent and was responsible for endangering many of our covert agents worldwide. Dick Cheney's old company is reaping profits beyond anyone's wildest imaginations in their no-bid contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and New Orleans. John Negroponte's activities in South America are very shady and murderous. Rumsfeld and Gonzales are responsible for illegal and immoral authorization, encouragement and approval of torture. Not to mention, violating Geneva Conventions, torture endangers the lives of our service men and women in Iraq. Along with the above mentioned traitors, Condi lied through her teeth in the insane run-up to the invasion. The list of crimes is extensive, abhorrent, and unbelievable. What is so unbelievable is that we were arrested for exercising our first amendment rights and these people are running free to enjoy their lives and wreak havoc on the world.

The fine for Demonstrating Without a Permit is $75.00. I am certain that I won't pay it. My court date is November 16th. Any lawyers out there want to help me challenge an unconstitutional law??

Tags: Cindy Sheehan, Iraq, peace, protest, civil disobedience (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 319 comments

  •  Damned Jailbirds... (3.85 / 21)

    What in hell makes you think you can sit somewhere just because you own it??

    Think you have Constitutional Rights or something??

    Silly liberals...

    True bipartisanship is prosecuting criminals regardless of Party.

    by The Baculum King on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:06:24 PM PST

  •  Civil disobedience (4.00 / 9)

    You are now among the best.
    Thanks

    by snowbird42 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:07:32 PM PST

    •  Iron Jawed Angel (4.00 / 17)

      Alice Paul would be proud of you, Cindy.  Don't let em put you through what she had to endure, though.  We'll storm the White House with torches and pitchforks before then.

      To announce that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -TR

      by Dallasdoc on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:16:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  thanks (4.00 / 80)

        by CindySheehan on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:17:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What are you thinking, Mrs. Sheehan? (4.00 / 28)

          Next you'll be compared to rabblerousers like Thoreau, Ghandi, and King.  Is THAT the kind of company you want to keep?!

          Heavens.

          I hated Bush before it was cool.

          by daveriegel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:51:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  actually, thank YOU (4.00 / 6)

          and don't give up

          we got your back

          we will win in the end

          hey hey ho ho, moron george has gotta go

          by knowthings on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:59:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  A modest proposal: (3.80 / 5)

          I've seen a few family planning clinics recently set up something where, every time an anti-abortion protest happens outside, the clinic receives an automatic wad of donations from supporters. I like this idea a lot, making the protest against you actually work for you, so I was just thinking would it be possible to do the same for GoldStar Families for Peace?

          Think about it - we could all make pledges for a certain amount whenever you're arrested (I figure this won't likely be the last time that happens), or maybe we can commit a dollar-per-head whenever a counter protest appears alongside one of your own?

          Many of us can't get to DC (or are from other countries, like me) but still want to add our weight to the cause, and this would be a great way for us to do so.

          And it would also give the counter-protesters a real reason to reconsider their actions, knowing that they would be earning you money.

          Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, I'm a Freeper.

          by HollywoodOz on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:17:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  You rock, Cindy! (none / 0)

          wish I could be there with you!  It would be an honor to share a holding tank with you!

          In the end, everything comes back to politics... without the political will (forced by the masses) nothing changes.

          by lezlie on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 03:27:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Cindy (none / 0)

          Last I checked you have the authority to speak for no one. Lest you got elected by some body.

          Not me.Not even a small fraction of those who supported the US with their lives. So. Speak for yourself or just retire to own pathetic life.

          by corngrower on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 10:13:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Dallasdoc, (none / 1)

        Why wait?

        If you've lamented the slipping morality of America while snorting cocaine off a male hooker's back during the filming "Jesus Camp", you might be a Republican.

        by The Gryffin on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:48:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Timing is everything (4.00 / 6)

          As Cindy showed us last month.

          If you're going to storm the Bastille, you better have a pissed-off crowd behind you.  The storm is gathering....

          To announce that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. -TR

          by Dallasdoc on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:58:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The sign that Alice Paul carried said (4.00 / 2)

        "Democracy Begins at Home."

        (I know that's a given to many of us, but just in case...)

        Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. --Paul Wellstone

        by Cordelia Lear on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:45:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  pre-war protesters (4.00 / 9)

      St. Patrick's Four Not Guilty of Conspiracy; Charged with Misdemeanors

      (9/26/05 -- BINGHAMTON, NY) Members of the St. Patrick's Four, their families, friends and legal team were grateful to learn that the jury, after over seven hours of deliberation, had found the peace activists not guilty of the most serious charge, conspiracy to impede an officer of the United States.

      "The decision to acquit on the conspiracy charge, a felony, is a huge victory, given the narrow parameters within which the four could present their defense, and given the restrictions on deliberations. This is a major setback in the government's efforts to criminalize dissent," said Bill Quigley, acclaimed public interest lawyer and law professor at Loyola University School of Law, who has been acting as legal advisor to the defendants.

      The four were convicted on lesser charges, damage to

      jb

      by redj on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:39:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Geeze, cindy, why should I listen to you (4.00 / 2)

      now that you are on the group W bench.

      Don't pay the fine. Tell em to fuck themselves and try to extradite you on a misdemeanor charge.

      And keep up the good fight. If there were a god he would love you.

      If at first you don't succeed, skydiving probably isn't your sport.

      by Lefty Malone on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:44:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Were glad your puy (4.00 / 5)

    And we have your back. "Civil disobedience is the highest form of patriotism."

    I'm no Nate Silver, TomTech, or VoteforAmerica ("WineRev" Eeman, Recounting Minnesota)

    by Tomtech on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:07:37 PM PST

  •  LOL (4.00 / 49)

    by CindySheehan on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:07:44 PM PST

  •  Glad to hear you're okay (4.00 / 3)

    keep up the fight, Cindy.  For all of our children.  You make us all proud.

    The truth is out there...

    by confusedintexas on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:07:53 PM PST

  •  you are lucky (4.00 / 7)

    you didnt ever get arrested for public intoxication and have to call your parents! Thats a good phone call 2:30 in the morning.

    Prediction: Sarah Palin gets a masters degree in political science before 2012, or 2016

    by desiunion on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:08:18 PM PST

  •  Aw, Cindy... (4.00 / 9)

    ...I may have got the jump on the others this time to throw my support your way, finally!

    This is "Phase 3" of the Gandhi formula, isn't it?

    All love, well wishes, and good thoughts your way.  Your words are like music; you've really tapped into the universe of the good!

    I'm sure you've read this?

    Off-Walden Pond

    -6.88, -3.44

    by Bluesee on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:08:55 PM PST

  •  Let's hope it spreads... (4.00 / 12)

    Perhaps a national civil disobedience day to end the occupation?

    "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

    by fishhead on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:09:40 PM PST

    •  That's a very good (4.00 / 5)

      idea. Can you imagine hundreds of thousands people just sitting mum with signs, starting with the White House lawn and in states across the country at the governor's offices, or particularly those that voted for the war and on capitol hill?

      That would be a powerful statement.

      by africa on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:22:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even better would be a (4.00 / 5)

        drive-in. It's the same as a sit-in only you bring your car. Into DC. All of us. Starting around 8AM. On the day before Thanksgiving. We could do it in shifts. As cars get towed and folks get arrested (a logistical nightmare), more pull up and park.

        You know how many lawmakers and lobbyists that would piss off? All of them. It might just make the morning afternoon and evening news.

        i see corruption everywhere.

        by donailin on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:49:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The disconnected one (4.00 / 3)

    Well put.

    Kudos for standing up and speaking truth to power once again.

    'Everybody's born-again these days; if you're not born-again you're dead, you're out of touch, yours is a minority view, you lose.' Barthelme 'Nat.Sel.'

    by jorndorff on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:10:39 PM PST

  •  Good for you, Cindy! (4.00 / 10)

    I've been arrested twice for civil disobedience.  The first time (1986) was a piece of cake.  I got the full treatment, however, in 2003 when I got arrested at the WH -- very unpleasant, but I'm still glad I did it.

    I hope you get a huge turnout at the Courthouse in November -- I'll be there if I can.

    JUST SAY NO TO HILLIEBERMAN!!! "The truth is there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?" ---"V"---

    by asskicking annie on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:10:57 PM PST

    •  i like your (4.00 / 15)

      sig line =)

      by CindySheehan on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:12:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I like the fact... (4.00 / 15)

        ...that you hang out and talk after posting a diary!

        I just wanted to say that I think you've reached the point where you're almost unbeatable. Unless you start acting crazy or start threatening people, you will win. You've withstood their attacks. They've thrown whatever they could think of at your credibility and you're still standing. You've even got Scott McClellan saying that you're "well intentioned." And there are too many of us following your story too closely for you to be, in the end, anything other than victorious.

        Just don't quit. And don't have a nervous breakdown. And God Bless You. DOUBLE GOD BLESS YOU!

        In case it isn't clear, I loathe conservatives.

        by alysheba on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:36:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You go girl!!! (4.00 / 3)

    Karl Rove (besides just being a very creepy man) outted a CIA agent and was responsible for endangering many of our covert agents worldwide. Dick Cheney's old company is reaping profits beyond anyone's wildest imaginations in their no-bid contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and New Orleans. John Negroponte's activities in South America are very shady and murderous. Rumsfeld and Gonzales are responsible for illegal and immoral authorization, encouragement and approval of torture. Not to mention, violating Geneva Conventions, torture endangers the lives of our service men and women in Iraq. Along with the above mentioned traitors, Condi lied through her teeth in the insane run-up to the invasion.

    I love the First Amendment!!

    "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana

    by Street Kid on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:11:07 PM PST

  •  Excellent Ms. Sheehan! (4.00 / 2)

    What's the plan now?  

    We need to keep having people sit-in like this all the time.  

    Keep up the good work!

    by Myrrander on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:14:12 PM PST

    •  I guess now... (4.00 / 3)

      she needs a good DC lawyer who'll work pro bono.

      Mariachi Mama Candidate Bickering Moratorium! Signatory to the Carnacki Petition

      by kredwyn on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:20:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know a DC (4.00 / 6)

        lawyer.  A relative.  She does mostly divorce work now, but used to be a "Nader's Raider".  Deborah Luxenberg.  

        It's possible that she can connect Cindy with someone.  Worth a try, anyway.  She's a great attorney.  She's in the book http://www.luxlaw.com/our_team.html  

        Tell her Uncle Benny's daughter recommended her : )

        "Never trust a rich man when he offers you a truce."

        by KibbutzAmiad on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:16:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know the entire D.C. legal community (none / 1)

          Several suggestions come to mind.  The attorneys who are currently most prominently representing protest arrestees are Mara Verheyden-Hilliard and Carl Messineo of the Partnership for Civil Justice.  I'm sure they'd be happy to take the case and even file a civil suit for wrongful arrest.  The only downside to litigating with them is that they also represent Larry Holmes, Brian Becker, and half the International ANSWER Coalition.  I won't go any further on ANSWER, since the pros and cons of the organization have been debated all over dKos for the last three or four days.  Mara and Carl are husband and wife, and they're real tigers who won't give a millimeter, let alone an inch.  Frankly, even though I'm not a fan of ANSWER, if I were in your position, they're who I'd hire.

          Joseph Sellers is one of the best civil rights attorneys in Washington, and I recommend him highly.  He's not cheap, but if you let him (or, for that matter, anyone) put on their Webpage that he defended Cindy Sheehan, he might take the case pro bono.

          Finally, you should probably contact the D.C. Chapter of the ACLU.  Art Spitzer and his colleagues would also be logical choices to represent you.

          "There is nothing false about hope." -- Barack Obama

          by DC Pol Sci on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 04:43:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Right on Cindy (none / 1)

    Your support is growing, stick to the message and keep your head high. There is nothing stronger than a mothers wrath!

    by nicky on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:14:12 PM PST

  •  Love you! (none / 0)

    by anotherCt Dem on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:15:11 PM PST

  •  finally some cable news coverage! (none / 0)

    may this bring some more attention to this anti war movement, because no one has to die tomorroW.

    no one has to die tomorroW

    by nikkoletti on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:15:21 PM PST

  •  Keep up the good fight (none / 0)

    They're running scared.

    by ortsed on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:18:04 PM PST

  •  "the disconnected one" (4.00 / 2)

    sad, but oh so true, and the measure of his disconnectedness is the fact that he doesn't even know he's disconnected...

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
    --Tom Harkin

    by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:18:07 PM PST

  •  Cindy, I can't help with the legal advice... (4.00 / 12)

    ...but I did just donate the $75 to the Gold Star Familes, just in case.

    by SteveRose on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:18:32 PM PST

    •  thank you (4.00 / 11)

      the donation will go to good use, but not to pay my fine.

      =)
      love you jim

      by CindySheehan on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:21:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I figured that. (4.00 / 4)

        I'm sure it will go to good use. Thank you Cindy.

        by SteveRose on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:32:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Cindy, May I Propose That We (4.00 / 9)

        Set up something similar to a 'troll bane' donation for Gold Star Families for Peace?

        I am hoping that today is not the last day of the protests. I'd like to see us donate for every body who follows in your footsteps so that the more arrests they make the more donations GSFP receives.

        Use it for ANYTHING but paying fines... For instance, the people in the hurricane ravaged areas still need help.

        You are becoming 'troll bane' for the Bushiter!

        I regard meeting you as a special privilege!

        LL

        "No AMERICAN requires authorization to do the right thing."

        by LeftyLimblog on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:52:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're not kidding (4.00 / 11)

          I checked Cindy's last diary after dipping myself (hazmat suit included) into Freeperville where they posted a thread saying Kossacks were ripping Cindy apart for the "a little rain" comment.

          They quoted people here.  Lo and behold, the bulk of those "Kossacks" they quoted, once checked, were first-time posters out to slam Cindy.

          I cannot stress enough the importance of discerning between trolls and posters who have opinions that are simply different but valid.

          Know that today I'm a broken record on this, and never have been before, but with all the Kos infiltration of late, esp since Cindy and Katrina, some vigilance and thoughtfulness seems really necessary -- since the trolls words are now being used to seemingly frame how all of the Kos community supposedly feels about Cindy.

           

          "My test of whether I am being blinded by partisanship is this: If S. Palin were a Democrat would I be horrified? Yes, I would." -- Kossack Plan9

          by MissAnneThrope on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:04:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exacltly. (4.00 / 3)

            Subtle and not so subtle trolls seem to be in
            abundance.  Their own right wing sites are going
            nowhere, so the next best thing is to try to bog
            down dailykos with specious nonsense.

            by object16 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:48:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  If I may be so bold (4.00 / 3)

            More on this here.

            by Steve M on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:00:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Great link Steve M. (none / 0)

              Excellent diary, documents the situation perfectly.  The Freepers are shitting themselves
              and trying to rub their shit over everyone else, hoping that no one notices how bad they smell.
              The rotting stench of the White House administration is starting to come out.  Truth is
              being spoken to power.

              by object16 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:26:15 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Wow, THANK YOU! (none / 0)

              Great that you've diaried about it and thanks for linking it. I've not been around DailyKos for most of summer after signing up quite some time ago.

              What a shock to return to freeper-level comments all being up-rated and 4'd by other freepers. Then to see them try and use "our" words against us.

              Kos, I think we have a problem here that needs all of our efforts and addressing from the highest levels. Thanks for bringing it to the attention of all.

              "My test of whether I am being blinded by partisanship is this: If S. Palin were a Democrat would I be horrified? Yes, I would." -- Kossack Plan9

              by MissAnneThrope on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 05:27:28 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Hey... (4.00 / 3)

    Don't be too disappointed about the Door-police not letting you into the White House. I hear its not as cool a place to be since they changed ownership a while back.

    But word is that management is due to change soon, and maybe we'll see a less anally uptight door policy.

    We are a pilgrim people. Our home is the heart of God --- My Aunt Barbara

    by deepfish on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:18:52 PM PST

  •  Why pick a fight on a side issue? (2.68 / 25)

    You got good publicity for the cause.  You accomplished your goals.  

    But, you are not Rosa Parks, the law you were breaking wasn't unjust.  The point of your protest was not to highlight an unjust law. Content neutral time, place and manner restrictions and permit requirements are routinely upheld by the Courts as consistent with the First Amendment, and for generally good reasons.  

    So why dillute your message by digressing to side issues of little real import?  

    by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:20:33 PM PST

    •  that is true enough (none / 0)

      i have time to ponder this one...=)

      by CindySheehan on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:24:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There aren't a lot people in the Peace Movement (2.50 / 4)

        staying on message.  And it turns off people who would otherwise be more active in demonstrating. All the diaries on this site lambasting ANSWER are proof of that.

        by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:29:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The peace movement is diverse (none / 0)

          Mainstream groups and what may appear to you to be fringe groups ARE united in the message that the Iraq invasion was wrong, was based on lies and is devastating in a variety of ways.

          Veterans for Peace, United for Peace and Justice, Code Pink, various human rights groups like Doctors Without Borders, Amnesty International as well as groups dedicated to WMD non-proliferation all have damn good reasons for opposing the illegal occupation of Iraq.

          The message that the invasion isn't accomplishing a continually shifting mission is loud and clear.
          .

          by Peanut on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:47:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm thinking out loud (none / 0)

            i disagree only in that the groups (MSF, UFPJ, Ranboew, etc...) all agreed on a massive popular point, and mobilized effectively.

            That's why the march was large. Keep it simple.

            Some great speakers, then, some horrendously embarrasing speakers. I heard at least one call for revolution. That was counterproductive to the message.

            As was MSF trotting out non iraq issues, as was code pink trotting out weakly related anecdotes, as was every other person who spoke too long and wandered far afield of the direct toll of the war.

            There's PLENTY to complain about right there in one topic.

            "Mexed missages."

            We can only get back to being progressive once we end this war. Stay focused everybody.

            thanks for your time.

            Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night - Carl Sagan (1934 - 1996)

            by mdhatter on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:57:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  you're right... (none / 0)

              ...a lot of people in DC this weekend were complete lunatics. I didn't support the Iraq War and I don't like Bush at all, but I've voted for Republicans in the past, and people like me are turned off by these fringe lunatics. You want Dems to embrace a march like this? Political suicide.

              I got tased in *The Great Markos Candidate Meltdown Cranky Pants Sting of Ought 7*

              by blueterp on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:45:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  a modest request (none / 0)

          Please explain what you have done to promote the anti-Iraq War message.

          What have you done to put, and keep, the debate on the national stage?

          Yeah, that's what I thought.

          "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi

          by Sunporch on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:18:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  cityduck is RIGHT Unfortunately.... (4.00 / 2)

          Contesting the fine gives Rove a chance to "spin" this into "she's just another 'innocent' criminal, clogging up the court system.

          In other words, it lets Rove distract the MSM from the true message...Which he's SO GOOD at doing.

          No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. ~Edward R. Murrow

          by mlkisler on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:45:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Picking a fight (4.00 / 9)

        on the side issue of protesting without a permit was a brilliant idea.

        My husband and I were reading your diary and laughing with delight. Like your protest in Crawford, you have the criminal Bush administration by the short and curlies. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

        If they let you stay in front of our house, you attract attention. If they have you arrested, you attract even more attention to your noble cause.

        Absolutely brilliant.

        We think you are awesome.

        You are our hero.

        by gilliani on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:21:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  don't ponder it...please (none / 1)

        You have helped revive the anti-war movement.   Don't hesitate to challenge this case in court.  

        As far as the constitution is concerned, we all have a first amendment right to assembly.  What's criminal is that you supposedly can't stand outside the White House, attempting to petition the government.  Take it to the Supreme Court.

        by markymarx on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:16:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Only goes to Supremes if they want it. (4.00 / 3)

          Content neutral time, place, and manner restrictions get "intermediate scrutiny."

          They must pass 2 tests: "substantial governmental interest," and "not unduly burdensome."

          The latter used to be "least restrictive available means," but the Supreme Court changed the standard in a case in which I was involved on the losing side, Ward v Rock Against Racism, decided in 1989.

          The substantial interest prong is satisfied by arguments over physical security of the President.

          Not unduly burdensome by the fact they're willing to grant the permit.

          See my most recent loss, US v Masel from 1999, for the best written caselaw upholding permit schemes for assembly on public lands.

          (Not saying Magistrate Crocker's right, but you want to be prepared to contest the other side's best arguments.)

          Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

          by ben masel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:51:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  An apology to Magistrate Crocker... (none / 0)

            He's not "wrong" legally. I understand he has a couple rough weeks wrestling with his gut, which said the Regulations were unconstitutional, and Supreme Court precedent, by which he was bound.

            Paging President Feingold: I recommend US District Court Magistrate Stephen Crocker for your first appointment to the 7th Circuit. Although I lost, he gave me a fair shake.

            Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

            by ben masel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:11:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  thanks Ben! (none / 0)

            All I know is Cindy Sheehan is the right person to draw attention to injustice.

            I'm sure you're right, legally.  But that may be somewhat besiside the point, politically.

            by markymarx on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:32:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Which Side Issues Would Those Be? (none / 1)

      The erosion of what her son swore to protect? AKA P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act, Gitmo, Abu Ghiraib? Not to be confrontational, just curious, that's all I can glean from the diary you might mean.

      by NewDirection on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:25:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No. (3.00 / 3)

        The side issue was fighting a law that imposes $75 fines for protesting without a permit, a law that is likely a Constitutionally permissible time, place and manner restriction.  

        by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:30:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps the issue is (4.00 / 6)

          ...I dunno, continuing publicity?

          You have to be creative to get attention for your cause.  CNN is unlikely to run a story saying that Cindy Sheehan repeated her anti-war message today for the 87th time, but they will run a story with a new angle.

          Of course Cindy is not shifting her focus from opposing the war to opposing the law that says you can't sit in front of the White House.

          by Steve M on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:53:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree with that. (3.00 / 3)

            Getting arrested was a good way to get publicity for the anti-war message.  It can be spun as showing the courage of her convictions.  It grabs headlines.  It becomes a mini-media event given that our media is so personality obsessed.

            Contesting the $75 fine, in my opinion, isn't.  Contesting the $75 fine is not about the anti-war message.  It's about whether the fine is lawful or not.  It's a free speech issue of marginal utility.

            So why dilute the message?  Better to find new avenues for getting the message out.  My suggestion, time to make another round of media appearances.  Go in the studio.  Look more establishment.  Build more "middle America" credibility.  Go on the talk shows.  Just a thought.

            by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:02:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Contest it, but... (4.00 / 6)

              The White House sidewalk regulations have been contested, and lost, at least dozens of times. I have a 1987 conviction for violating the "Too Big a Sign on the White House Sidewalk" regulation to prove it.

              You don't get a jury trial for federal misdemeanors carrying 6 months or less.

              The folks with the 23 year anti-nuclear vigil accross the street have a collection of the relevent precedents at The Incredible Shrinking 1st Amendment.

              So don't plead guilty, but don't invest a lot of energy.

              Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

              by ben masel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:27:11 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You Know Your First Amendment (none / 1)

                As a practical matter, Ben is right.  The chances are slim and none that regulations prohibiting a non-permitted sit-down demonstration in front of the White House will be held unconstitutional or otherwise invalid.

                I think Ms. Sheehan's time would be better spent getting out her anti-war message than fighting a $75 fine under these circumstances.  

                by eafredel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:45:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Show up, fight it anyway. (none / 0)

                  Just don't invest too much in the case, or go in with unrealistic hopes.

                  Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

                  by ben masel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:01:36 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Cindy should just keep (none / 0)

              being herself- this is where her power comes from, people know she is coming from a real place, a hurt place which we can relate to. If she believes the arrest is wrong, then no doubt she believes paying the fine would be wrong. If she paid up I think the arrest would just look like a stunt. If she fights it then the arrest retains its significance.

              As for the "strategery", the court house will be the next chapter in the gripping saga of one grieving mother's fight against Washington. You want her to swap all her authenticity for a suit and a studio... to which people will NOT relate, believe me.

              None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free - Goethe

              by limaike on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:33:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  "look more establishment" (none / 0)

              Next someone will be suggesting that Cindy wears a suit when she protests.

              by stevej on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:31:30 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  We Are Everywhere (4.00 / 2)

          Fighting this is a great move for its value in highlighting that the Administration is unwilling to accept the petition for redress of grievances presented by citizens.  I don't care what the court decides: if this makes one more person realize the indifference of this Administration where accountability is concerned, I say go for it if you can take the outcome.  The penalty for not fighting this is $75 and a golden opportunity.

          I don't often sound like Jerry Rubin ("JR" handle is totally unrelated, I swear!), but if this arrest for demanding the right to petition the government lets you shine a light on how detached the Administration is from the citizenry, I say let's make it a party on November 16th.

          I'll do whatever I can to help!  Drop me a line at floridaforpeace@gmail.com if there's anything I can do to help.

          "When those windmills start to chop people up, tilting at them may not only be rational, but may become a necessity." -arodb

          by JR on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:18:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  A $75 fine is not the same as (2.50 / 2)

            as a conspiracy trial.  This won't be the Chicago 7.  

            It's time to move with the times.  Cindy Sheehan garned national attention precisely because SHE IS NOT JERRY RUBIN, ABBIE HOFFMAN OR TOM HAYDEN.

            The key to her appeal is she is NOT from a professional agitator.  Her appeal is she's a real person.  Turning her into a professinal agitator, ala Jerry Rubin, just isn't going to help, in my opinion.  I think she'll just end marginalizing herself.

            But, these are her choices to make.  

            To me, the more powerful demonstration is not going to be the march by people wearing their "protest clothes" (the tie-dyes, peace shirts, Free Mumia slogans, Che, marijuana leaves, etc.) but the march by people looking middle America.  As John Lennon put it: If you go around carrying signs with Chairman Mao, you aint' gonna make it with anyone anyhow.  And given the ANSWER backlash on this site, I think we'd be well served to heed his advice.

            by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:37:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's what did happen (none / 0)

              I just posted a diary about the march and how little difference the Communists made to the people there, and how we're seriously understating the benefits that the march provided the Movement.

              But that aside, Cindy has apparently decided to make certain that the Administration is kept under pressure to answer protesters' demands, and her "absolute moral authority", as MoDo somewhat overstated it, makes her uniquely situated to command press attention.  You think the Washington Post would have posted video of the arrests were it anyone but Cindy?  It's a role that only she can fill--and, tragically, there are other Gold Star parents that possess that same "moral authority" because of this illegal political war who can avoid the civil disobedience and speak out against the Administration, but they'll never command the same attention as Cindy.  It's her call, now we need to help her be as successful as she wants to be, the way she wants to do it.  But I totally understand your point and I agree that this could cost her some of her current support.  We'll just have to make sure this is done in such a way as to maximize the benefit of her action, which, in this case, requires the media circus come down and cover the hell out of this process.  A nolo just doesn't get the airtime we need to press the case for withdrawal.

              "When those windmills start to chop people up, tilting at them may not only be rational, but may become a necessity." -arodb

              by JR on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:33:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Side Issue? Did you READ the diary? (4.00 / 6)

      By the way, great diary, Cindy!

      Great action!

      Keep it up.

      We are with you. Lots of us. :)

      Should a "progressive" Dem blog dwell in the safe zones of a tame party, or should it drive a tame party to break out?

      by NYCee on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:25:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh I See. Just Freedom of Assembly, and Speech (none / 1)

      Which are both lost causes leaving us to chase torture and so on. But guess what we can't without those more fundamental rights. So while I understand better upon review I still think it's a worthy side effort.

      by NewDirection on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:26:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Who zero-rated this? (3.00 / 3)

      Cityduck is making an entirely legitimate point based on constitutional law.  A legal battle diverting attention from the core issue of the war - particularly if there isn't a solid basis in law - is bad political strategy.  We're all on the same side here.

      http://coolbluereason.blogspot.com/

      by Cool Blue Reason on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:09:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I Think Sit-Down Strikes Are/Were Illegal Too (4.00 / 2)

      In order to make a point, some people accept the calculated risks of breaking a side-issue law. It's an age-old tactic for many people low and high who are not Rosa Parks but nevertheless are fighting to highlight causes they believe in.

      The Vietnamese self-immolating Buddhist monks would be the most extreme example. I'm very sure that nothing about those actions was directly related to the cause they were highlighting.

      The huge legal demonstration Saturday was effectively shut out from national awareness. The little one today made it into the mass media on a regular news and work day. The national electorate today got a clear, focused message that some people are willing to sacrifice personally in opposition to the Iraq war.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:32:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep. (none / 0)

        I think we are in complete agreement.

        Choosing to break the law was a good strategy to get the message out.

        But unlike in the case of Rosa Parks or violaters of Jim Crow lunch counter laws, the point of breaking the law wasn't to show the law unjust.  Heck, time, place and manner restrictions serve some very good purposes, just ask abortion clinics.

        by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:09:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank You Cindy (4.00 / 2)

    You are a true patriot - and a lot of us down here in Dallas TEXAS are so proud of you and thankful that you were so brave to lead the way... we love you.

    "And only the weak would revenge themselves. The strong of soul forgive, and it is honor in the injured to forgive." Jesus Christ's Sermon on The Mount

    by geminiartist71 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:22:28 PM PST

  •  What Was The Deal With Union Square? (none / 0)

    There were reports you had been arrested at Union Square in NYC. Whatever happened there I'm glad it didn't go that far. Anyhow... Umm... Congratulations?

    I had a friend some time back whose Mom was an anti-war activist. Kathy Boylan. She on one occasion, among other such stunts, snuck into a boatyard and threw red paint on an armed nuclear submarine. (That's the virgin I heard anyway.) When I first caught your name I wondered if you were her. But I was thrilled to find out there was more than one supercool anti-war Mom in the world (and in the news) willing to go the distance.

    by NewDirection on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:23:09 PM PST

  •  Bush must be really scared (4.00 / 12)

    He actually flew into a hurricane to get away from you and the thousands of other Americans protesting the war.  Now, he's having peaceful demonstators arrested.  Bush is a coward.

    My reality may not conform to your ideology. Visit Delaware Liberal.

    by Unstable Isotope on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:23:37 PM PST

  •  I will say this, (none / 0)

    you made getting arrested look like fun.  Have you seen the pictures of it?


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:25:48 PM PST

    •  it was actually kinda (4.00 / 8)

      of fun...
      except for the muscle spasms i am having in my neck and back from having my hands cuffed behind me for too long....

      by CindySheehan on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:37:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I heard about the (none / 1)

        arrest and spent the next 4 hours waiting to see it on television.

        Were you not able to get a permit, or was not getting one a choice?


        The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

        by nupstateny on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:49:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The handcuffs.. (none / 0)

        ...are always the most fun part of getting arrested.  Not.

        JUST SAY NO TO HILLIEBERMAN!!! "The truth is there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?" ---"V"---

        by asskicking annie on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:59:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Don't let it show. (none / 1)

        Taking the arrest, way cool. But the smile in the photo was all wrong. Work on the "steely determination" look.

        Cheers.

        Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

        by ben masel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:44:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Walk us through it. Tell us what to expect. (none / 0)

        I can imagine a lot more of this sort of action in the future for a lot of us. Including me. Which would also be a first.

        Have you considered organizing with people who are more iraq-war oriented, and less likely to use the word revolution in front of a mic?

        I heart you. rock on.

         

        Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night - Carl Sagan (1934 - 1996)

        by mdhatter on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:42:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you Cindy... (none / 0)

    You have awakened most Americans to BushieBoy's lies.  

    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official... ~Theodore Roosevelt

    by Pam from Calif on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:26:27 PM PST

  •  Cindy For President [nm] (none / 0)

    "Don't be a janitor on the Death Star!" - Grey Lady Bast (change @ for AT to email)

    by bellatrys on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:27:12 PM PST

    •  we already called her for senator (none / 0)

      if she's willing to challenge feinstein, that is (pretty please, cindy?).

      surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

      by wu ming on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:47:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Er, what? (none / 0)

        As I've commented on a number of occasions here at dKos, I loathe (loathe) that hypocritical corporatist Dianne Feinstein.

        I have to wonder, though, what the world is coming to when an otherwise sane Kossack like wu ming suggests that Cindy Sheehan is qualified to be a US Senator.  Sure, the humorous "X for Preznit!" calls are great, but this doesn't sound like a joke.

        WTF, over?

        -AG

        Barack Obama does not fart cinnamon-scented rainbows.
        He is not trailed by angels and unicorns.
        --John Scalzi

        by AlphaGeek on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:46:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  not entirely a joke (none / 0)

          1. primary challenges can have several functions, only one of which is actually replacing the candidate. a challenge from cindy could demonstrate the depth of anger about this war to one of its enablers, and hopefully push DiFi into tacking left in response. if nothing else, it would garner significant coverage on the issue and the public sentiment behind it.

          2. feinstein is such a disappointment at this point that i would be willing to risk having a senator who depends on staffers for help analyze bills and senate procedure but who understands the realities of life outside of the beltway and who has a powerfully strong moral compass on both war and social justice over the status quo.

          3. it was also partly in jest. i figure we californians have first dibs.

          all of it is immaterial, however, if cindy herself isn't seriously willing to do such a thing. groundless speculation and shameless rumormongering on my part. to be clear. but i would volunteer for cindy for real if she ran. us central valley democrats stick together, after all. ;-)

          surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

          by wu ming on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:01:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Cindy's at least as qualified... (none / 0)

          as I am.

          Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

          by ben masel on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 07:39:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Well Cindy, like we (4.00 / 6)

    say in the Marine Corps infantry,"if you don't have at least one NJP(Non-judicial-punishment), then you 'aint a real Marine grunt". The same applies here. "If you haven't been arrested at least once, then you 'aint a real protester!". Good luck in court.:)

    by RetreatHell on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:27:36 PM PST

  •  When I heard that this happened... (4.00 / 8)

    I truly thought the Administration had lost its mind.  There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that advances your cause like arresting you.  

    by teenagedallasdeaniac on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:29:41 PM PST

  •  Thank you (4.00 / 3)

    Thank you, Cindy, for showing us how a real patriot acts.  

    I wish I could have been there today with you.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, you and everyone else out there today are my heroes and you make me proud to be an American.

    As I've read the posts today about your actions in DC, I've found myself full of joy.  Thank you for that. too.

    Please keep up the good work.

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by tvb on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:30:36 PM PST

  •  3 more Americans dead today (none / 1)

    in this insane occupation. Pure chaos in Iraq daily. Lets get the spotlight back on the insanity of this war. Hopefully there will be no more hurricanes, so no one else is hurt, and the media can actually focus on something else for a while. They seem incapable of 2 things at once.

    by Blakbelt on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:31:54 PM PST

  •  Guts (none / 0)

    Guts, Lady you have guts. I salute you, your son would be proud.

    "GDI" baby

    by threecents on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:34:34 PM PST

    •  She sure is. I think of the inconvenience (none / 0)

      that it would cause me, but there is a freedom in letting go and doing what you have to do and fearing nothing so long as you are in the side of righteousness.

      Cindy is on the side of righteousness. And truth. You cannot be better armed than that.

      i see corruption everywhere.

      by donailin on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:42:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Re: My First Time (4.00 / 15)

    You have more people than you know standing with you. I believe that the pictues of you being carried away by the police will do for the the anti-war movement what pictures of fire hoses and police dogs did for the civil rights movement...people will start standing up to be counted and say "Not in our name".

    You have made this ol' Master Sergeant proud of you for your courage and conviction and I'm sure Casey is proud as he looks down from Heaven.

    "I used to be a conservative until I grew up and learned to think for myself"

    The loudest cries for war come from those who have never seen one.

    by MadGeorgiaDem on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:35:26 PM PST

  •  In Spirit... (none / 1)

    You know, Cindy, that thousands and thousands of us would've sat there with you.  Dr. King said, in his letter 1963 Letter From Birmingham Jail:

    In any nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of the facts to determine whether injustices exist; negotiation; self- purification; and direct action.

    The time is now for direct action.  You've held the light for many of us.  Now we have to carry the light ourselves.

    There was never a good war or a bad peace. - Ben Franklin

    by AndyPA on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:35:46 PM PST

  •  Wish I could have been arrested today (none / 1)

    as well, it would have been my first time, and it would have been well worth it. Keep going Cindy!

    by Blakbelt on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:35:59 PM PST

  •  Paging Ben Masel (none / 0)

    A man with civil disobedience experience, and a lawyer if I recall correctly.

    ;]

    by lapin on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:36:26 PM PST

  •  Cindy, what can I say (none / 0)

    that others have not already said.  You are truly an amazing woman.  I only wish that our representatives in Congress had half the courage and perseverance that you have.  

    If men were angels, no government would be necessary. - James Madison

    by LynChi on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:37:45 PM PST

  •  hmmm demonstrating without a permit? (4.00 / 3)

    what happened to freedom of assembly?

    oh and that ap story (i assume) about the arrests is great.  my favorite part is:

    On Sunday, a rally supporting the war drew roughly 500 participants. Speakers included veterans of World War II and the war in Iraq, as well as family members of soldiers killed in Iraq.

    "I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters: Don't be a group of unthinking lemmings," said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, West Virginia, whose husband died in Iraq last year. She said the anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope."

    may i just say:  cough, cough

    a)  heh...roughly 500
    b)  heh...unthinking lemmings
    c)  suicide bombing doesn't strike me as very hopeful.

    Get on the offense and stay there.

    by mediaprisoner on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:40:08 PM PST

  •  You are so brave (none / 1)

    to stand up for your son and all the others that have been sent to their fates in this criminal war.

    I'm not a lawyer, but I'll be glad to contribute to your defense fund. We're thinking of you and thanking you up here in the Northwest quadrant.

    by cpwicks on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:41:50 PM PST

  •  You Got the Story Out There! (none / 0)

    So little was said about the protest march on Saturday. I've already seen mention of your arrest in several places, ALL of which have been forced to further explain your being in DC for the March. The country is now finally finding out what a MASSIVE and wonderful march we put on this past weekend, so thanks for sacrificing AGAIN for the good of this country. Wish I'd been down there singing with you!

    "Why you gotta act like you know when you don't know?" - Ben Folds

    by RNinNC on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:41:56 PM PST

  •  Cindy, Pass On a 'Thank You' (4.00 / 2)

    To Medea!!

    Just had returned from work, still extremely tired from the weekend there in DC, and still on my feet as I work Construction.

    Turned on the Puter, clicked on the Stream of Air America, and there was Medea on the line with Randy Calling just before they took her away, than low and behold she left the Cell On, Garbled as it was you could Hear much of the Arrest and what was going on!!!!!!

    All Now Recorded In Randies Achives!!!!!;o}
    ****
    ****
    I Will Add To Signature: ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION and CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP-BOTH PARTIES, SHOULD RESIGN - NOW!!!!!

    James Starowicz
    VFP 'Declaration Of Impeachment'
    Sign On and Pass Link To Others

    http://www.veteransforpeace.org/impeachment/impeachment.htm
    USN '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In-Country'70-'71 COMNAVFORV
    Member: Veterans For Peace

    "We, having dutifully served our nation, do hereby
    affirm our greater responsibility to serve the cause
    of world peace by applying the concept of engaging
    conflict peacefully, without violence."
    http://www.veteransforpeace.org/  

    Blood cannot wash away blood. Hate cannot wash away hate. War cannot wash away war. ( an Afghan Proverb )

    by jimstaro on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:42:54 PM PST

    •  Dude, don't engage in ratings abuse. (2.66 / 3)

      Troll rating legitimate comments is B.S.

      by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:04:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hows That........... (2.20 / 5)

        Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        [Actually I meant a 'NonProductive' but Troll Will Do for the First One!!!]
        **

        I Will Add To Signature: *ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION and CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP-BOTH PARTIES, SHOULD RESIGN - NOW!!!!!

        James Starowicz
        VFP 'Declaration Of Impeachment'
        Sign On and Pass Link To Others

        http://www.veteransforpeace.org/impeachment/impeachment.htm
        USN '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In-Country'70-'71 COMNAVFORV
        Member: Veterans For Peace

        "We, having dutifully served our nation, do hereby
        affirm our greater responsibility to serve the cause
        of world peace by applying the concept of engaging
        conflict peacefully, without violence."
        http://www.veteransforpeace.org/  

        Blood cannot wash away blood. Hate cannot wash away hate. War cannot wash away war. ( an Afghan Proverb )

        by jimstaro on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:16:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You boomers have got to learn (2.00 / 7)

          the world doesn't revolve around you.

          I guess I could've said "man" instead of "dude" and that would have appealed more to your sensibilities, but the point remains:

          Troll rating comments that are legitimate comments is B.S.

          Troll rating is a form of community censorship that should be reserved for only those comments which are not a legitimate contribution to the marketplace of ideas that is DailyKos.  Which is why I'm troll rating your last post.  It contains no ideas, no defense of your indefensible behavior, it's just more B.S.

          Give the community rules some serious thought.

          by cityduck on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:24:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  and you... (3.50 / 2)

            have to learn that "unproductive" is not the same as "troll rating". The FAQ is out of date and misleading. Troll rating is "0", a rating only available to Trusted Users. "1", though it is not to be used simply to indicate disagreement with another poster, is perfectly legitimate to indicate that you think another's post is...well...unproductive.

            The type of comment that one might consider "unproductive", for instance, might be a petulant whine such as

            "You boomers have got to learn the world doesn't revolve around you."

            "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi

            by Sunporch on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:53:34 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The World and I... (none / 1)

            revolve around our  common center of gravity.

            Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

            by ben masel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:39:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I've given you a 4 to counter it. n/t (none / 0)

        "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

        by Donna in Rome on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:02:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Never stop Cindy, never stop. (none / 0)

    You give hope to millions, and we need all the hope we can get in these dark days.

    by Virginia Patriot on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:43:08 PM PST

  •  Keep Fighting the Good Fight (none / 1)

    I imagine O'Reilly will probably call you a terrorist after this.
    I hope he does because it'll show how desperate he and his fellow chickenhawks have become in defending this mess in Iraq.
    We need to keep the pressure on the administration and remind the American people that people are still dying over there for no good reason.  For all the talk of John Roberts, we can't lose sight of this.

    by MattBellamy on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:43:44 PM PST

  •  Thanks Cindy! (none / 0)

    Keep up the pressure. I know it's no fun. But what you and others are doing is very important.

    We stop this war by being in the President's face, day in and day out. No, I don't expect that he will agree with you. But you will be in the eye of the news media. And by doing so you are in the eye of the country. Keep speaking plainly and from the heart. People can tell that you are authentic.

    However, there are times when you may misstake the facts. It is important to get them right if you want credibility. The Congress did authorize the war with Iraq. Unfortunately, they were misled on intelligence. That is the key point. I wrote about this on my blog some time ago.

    It seems to me that if Congress can declare war it can also undeclare war. It can say that we were misled and the authorization is withdrawn, and specify a timetable by which the president must bring the troops home.

    Many an insightful opinion and observation can be found on my blog Occam's Razor.

    by Guy Noir on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:43:50 PM PST

  •  Cindy, wow you are so brave! (4.00 / 3)

    I have to say how amazing it is to see your strength, convictions and the stand you are taking at a risk to you and your personal life, what "sacifice".

    I bow down to you, you are a "TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT". It will be your brave stance, when history is written, that will mark the turning point in this illegal war!!! I wish our Democrats in Congress had half the backbone you do. God Bless you!!

    "Alan Grayson is my hero...now thats a Real Democrat"! alnc.10/09

    by alnc on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:45:43 PM PST

  •  You are a wonder (none / 0)

    Nobody could have predicted that one Mom with an aching heart could have brought down the most corrupt, evil, cruel, and dishonest administration in US History. Wait, I just did!

    Thank you Cindy Sheehan, you make us all proud.

    Joe Lieberman is a Chode.

    by dnamj on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:50:15 PM PST

  •  getcher red hot sedition here! (4.00 / 9)

    More Agitprop on the Cheap - print out, plaster the world, be your own Paul Revere

    (The right of the people/peaceably to assemble/
    shall not be abridged     - sounds like the start of a rap protest song.)

    First they came for the rights of the atheists and the Pagans and the Muslims and the heretics and the agnostics, and I did not speak up because I was not an atheist or a Pagan or a Muslim, and I didn't know that I knew any either, and they were not actively persecuting heretics and agnostics just then, nor requiring that all attend church and pray for the ruling family in express words;

    Then they came for the freedom of speech and abridged it, and I did not speak up because I didn't miss it anyway, never having used it, because I didn't care much for demonstrations myself;

    Then they came for the freedom of the press, and I didn't even notice, being too absorbed in my own problems and recreations to notice the discrepancies or disprove the lies;

    Then they came with the Patriot Act for the freedom to read and write privately what one wished without fear of spies and informers, and I did not speak up because I did not wish to be thought a traitor or a coward or a fool;

    And then they came again for the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and took it away with laws and rules and Free Speech Zones, this time;

    And when I finally realized that this was intolerable and wanted at last to petition for a redress of grievances, it was too late, and there was no way left for me to speak up--

        --credit to Pastor Martin Niemoeller and flister Crazy Soph

    "Don't be a janitor on the Death Star!" - Grey Lady Bast (change @ for AT to email)

    by bellatrys on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 04:50:53 PM PST

  •  Thank you, Cindy, for what (none / 0)

    you are doing--my heart was there with you today, and I was thinking of you a lot, though not able to be there myself right now.  Go in peace--and get some sleep and good food!

    "....no proof, just science and that makes it true for you liberals" (from an e-mail to Kos)

    by bibble on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:01:39 PM PST

  •  Civil Disobedience (none / 0)

    "The fine for Demonstrating Without a Permit is $75.00. I am certain that I won't pay it."

    I think you are missing the whole point of civil disobedience.  I don't recall Martin Luther King refusing to serve time, despite the injustice of it.

    by wooga on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:02:07 PM PST

    •  with respect (none / 1)

      I think you are missing the point.

      If she pays the fine she would not serve time.

      If she refuses to pay she may serve time.

      She is saying she is not guilty and will pay the State's penenace. THAT is civil disobedience.

      by Michael Alton Gottlieb on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:51:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Something to consider (none / 0)

        It would cost Cindy a lot more, both in money and in stress, to undertake a losing legal fight, and the focus of any media coverage would move from the war to the quixotic nature of her legal case.

        Cityduck was correct, in the legal point he tried to make above--constitutional law permits time, place, and manner restrictions on sidewalk demonstrations.

        I cited a decision of the D.C. Court of Appeal above, but I'll repeat it here:  take a look at the case of White House Vigil for the ERA Comm. v. Clark, 746 F.2d 1518, at 1544 (D.C. Cir. 1984).

        We're all in this together.

        by JTML on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:41:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Miss the point. (none / 0)

      Paying the fine means not fighting the conviction.  The alternative is to say that the law is wrong or misapplied and she shouldn't have been arrested in the first place.

      We would have a single payer health care system - if 51 Republican senators wanted it. The problem isn't the filibuster - it's the backbone.

      by Tod on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:04:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Slogan (4.00 / 7)

    The protest is over, and I just now came up with my slogan:

    Haliburton:  the bucks stop there.

    I wonder if W keeps that on his desk in the oval office.

    Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig

    by YankInUK on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:02:39 PM PST

  •  I'm cracking open a beer... (4.00 / 6)

    ...and drinking to your losing your arrest virginity.  

    You go, girl!

    JUST SAY NO TO HILLIEBERMAN!!! "The truth is there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?" ---"V"---

    by asskicking annie on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:04:16 PM PST

  •  Bottom of the thread... (4.00 / 3)

    seemed like an appropriate place for a bit of Thoreau, from "The Last Days of John Brown."

    When a noble deed is done, who is likely to appreciate it?  They who are noble themselves.  I was not surprised that certain of my neighbors soke of John Brown as an ordinary felon, for who are they?  They have either much flesh, or much office, or much coarseness.  They are not ethereal natures in any sense.  Several of them are decidedly pachydermatous.  I say it in sorrow, not in anger.  How can a man behold the light who has no answering inward light?  They are true to their sight, but when they look this way they see nothing, they are blind.  For the children of the light to contend with them is as if there should be a contest between eagles and owls.  Show me a man who feels bitterly twoard John Brown, and let me hear what noble verse he can repeat.  He'll be as dumb as if his lips were stone.

    I hated Bush before it was cool.

    by daveriegel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:08:09 PM PST

    •  Good quote, but Ms. Sheehan rises far above Brown (none / 0)

      John Brown was not that much different to those who would shoot abortion doctors (in the sense that he believed his moral outrage justified killing).

      Ms. Sheehan is engaged in a superior variety of civil disobedience, the non-violent kind.  Her light shines brighter (IMHO) than that Mr. Thoreau saw in Mr. Brown.

      -7.13, -8.41

      by evilpenguin on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:39:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not the comparison I was shooting for (none / 1)

        but point taken.

        Look at Thoreau's line that those without the light in them cannot see the light.  

        And the word "pachydermitous"... kind of an ironic modern ring.

        I hated Bush before it was cool.

        by daveriegel on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:13:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I dig... (none / 0)

          No, I completely agree.  It's just that Thoreau admired Brown in what I personally consider to be a lapse of judgement.

          Brown remains a controversial figure to this day.  His story is a remarkably relevant one to several things in the present day, including the abortion issue, terrorism, state's rights, civil liberties, the limits of protest, non-violence (as counter example), etc.

          He is also one of those "touchstones" of the tensions in American life, not just the abolition/slavery issue, but we have to realize that there is considerable overlap between the constituencies for abolition, prohibition, anti-Darwinism, and anti-abortion.  There is a "progressive protestant" element to each of these.

          Now I'm not remotely suggesting that these constituencies are identical.  For example, prohibition was championed in part by feminists, whereas a majority of feminists would not be on the anti-abortion side of reproductive rights questions.

          Nonetheless, the belief that law can change the morals of society underlies all of the movements on that list above.

          John Brown, above all, was moved by a religious impulse.  He declared that he would "consecrate his life" to abolition of slavery, and during his lifetime he did much good in that cause.  He gave land to fugitive slaves.

          Indeed, it seems clear that the raid on Harpers Ferry was a desperate act, committed only when he believed that nothing he, nor anyone did short of blood would end slavery. His life and death are the tragedy of the righteous. His example raises the debate of non-violence, and provokes the interesting question: What if there had been no John Brown, whom Herman Melville called "the meteor of the war?" Would the Civil War have happened anyways? What if non-violence had come into play? Would there have been fewer deaths? Or more? Would most of them have been slaves killed?

          Slavery was the American Genocide. For even when it did not kill the body, it killed the spirit of the slave and corrupted that of the slaveholder.

          Is everything justified in the struggle against evil?

          John Brown's revolt poses all of these questions and so many more. The way people at the time revered or reviled him can readily be compared with the ways people from Cindy Sheehan to Hugo Chavez to Osama Bin-Laden (NO connection implied between any of the above except as figures of controversy) are revered and reviled.

          The tension between righteousness and reason remains. And good and evil do not at all align with the two.

          -7.13, -8.41

          by evilpenguin on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:40:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Turner (none / 0)

        I wonder if you'd condemn Nat Turner for his revolt?

        Or was Turner justified because he was a slave, while John Brown wasn't because he was white and therefore shouldn't really be involved (beyond writing letters to the editor)?

        Some sort of wierd Relativism going on. Slavery was the greatest evil in this country's history. Abortion is not.

        by bigbay on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:53:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Many people think it's worse. (none / 0)

          I'm certainly not one of them, but you can't have it both ways.

          There will be coffee and cookies in the Gandhi Room after the revolution -- Unitarian Jihad

          by Auntie Mame on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 03:56:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I condemn killing (none / 0)

          I condemn killing.  Although the point you raise is a fair one.  Would my position be different had John Brown succeeded?  I don't know.  Nat Turner's revolt has greater justification than John Brown's certainly. The only case where I find killing to be justified is when in immediate peril of life an limb. A slave might well be considered to be in that state all the time. It is not unlike when Ghandi was asked whether non-violence would work against Hitler. The slaveholders in the south weren't much different in their oppression.

          I certainly don't condone slavery, nor do I consider abortion to be such a very great wrong.  I'm certainly amongst those who believe it is up to individual choice and conscience.

          But I think it is still fair to point out that if moral outrage and a conviction that the system cannot be changed through the system is sufficient the justify killing, then you are, in support of John Brown, making an argument that supports the actions of those who murder abortion doctors. This should show clearly why I condemn John Brown's actions, while at the same time I consider him a direct cause of the Civil War, and thus the end of the system of chattel slavery in the south.

          -7.13, -8.41

          by evilpenguin on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 07:11:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  BTW, It took me a minute (none / 0)

          For some reason when I read you post, instead of seeing Nat Turner, my brain though of Wat Tyler, and I couldn't for the life of me see what the English Peasant's Revolt of 1381 had to do with John Brown. Some weird sort of history major's brain lock...

          -7.13, -8.41

          by evilpenguin on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 10:14:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Good work, Ms. Sheehan. (4.00 / 5)

    Well Cindy,

    I live close to your last outpost in Austin, Texas.  Though friends got to hang out with y'all for a spell outside the ranch, I didn't make it.  My wife is pregnant and I just started another school year teaching kindergarteners, so life is full.  Just know there are myriad untold others like myself who deeply support the work you do, and have a tremendous appreciation for the unyielding effort you are undertaking for our country.  It is just such simple, consistent actions that, compounded over time, can change the course of history.  The fact that you have become a household name belies the reality that your anti-war perspective- what you stand for is now present in a resonant, sympathetic way in most Americans minds.  They may not all agree with that perspective, but it exists-- and it is a respectable, powerful position.

     I just wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart.

    by paziz on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:09:30 PM PST

  •  International coverage (4.00 / 4)

    ARD Tagesthemen, one of the leading nightly news TV shows in Germany, aired a short segment of the arrest tonight: Link (The report is at 26:36 into the show.)

    So far, I couldn't find newspapers that have picked the story up, although the protest march on Saturday was covered widely.  However, it's night over here, so I guess it will be reported later.

    From Europe? Join the fun at the European Tribune!

    by hesk on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:13:05 PM PST

  •  Start the impeachment ball rolling... (4.00 / 6)

    Good job!  Love to see you run for Congress next year...then your voice becomes 1/435 instead of 1 out of 300 million.  You could probably get enough signatures to qualify for the ballot from the DKos community alone  =)

    Besides, then you could draft articles of impeachment (as a congresswoman).  Imagine the good you could do!

    by Dante92660 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:13:43 PM PST

  •  Another tough day for Scotty McClellan. (4.00 / 15)

    More fun at today's press briefing with Baghdad Bob McClellan.  He denied knowing about the arrest when asked, but there was this exchange.

    Here's the short version:

    What we're working to do is lay a foundation of peace for our children and grandchildren.....

    Q How many are you going to kill, in the meantime?

    Here's the long version so you know I wasn't cheating with the edit.

    Q Is he communicating with those -- especially those who support his cause? Has he said anything --

    MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think the American people recognize the importance of what we are working to accomplish in the broader Middle East. Iraq is a key part of establishing a foundation for lasting peace and security. What we're working to do is lay a foundation of peace for our children and grandchildren. And the President has made it very clear that his number one priority is the safety and security of the American people. And we are engaged in a global war. It is a war that is -- that continues. The President said after September 11th, that some would tend to forget. He will not. We are going to stay on the offensive until we win this war, and we're going to work to spread freedom and democracy to address the --

    Q How many are you going to kill, in the meantime?

    The "How many are you going to kill" question has to refer back to Scotty's reference to our children and grandchildren.  Nothing else makes any sense.

    The news in the press briefing is never what McClellan says, because it's his job not to say anything.  The news is when we see members of the media decide not to be intimidated and start asking real questions.  Of course Bush doesn't have an answer.  Bush doesn't have any answers.

    We would have a single payer health care system - if 51 Republican senators wanted it. The problem isn't the filibuster - it's the backbone.

    by Tod on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:15:42 PM PST

  •  Kudos from SC (none / 1)

    Keep the heat on the bastards.

    by MHB on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:21:28 PM PST

  •  I thought I (4.00 / 8)

    was going to have to slug a man at work today.  He said he heard Drudge say this morning that you were complaining because the hurricane was getting more coverage than you.  I told him that seemed very unlikely to me and went on to tell him how you had donated your time and leftover supplies to the victims.  Of course, later in the conversation, he said that the war was right because we had to go after people that ran planes into our buildings!  And, yes, I explained to him that the Iraqis had nothing to do with it.  How can people still believe this stuff in September 2005?  What has really thrown me is that he always seemed like a pretty nice guy, not a wingnut, although I've only known him for a couple of months.

    I'm very proud to be a member of the same community as you, Cindy.  Just know that there are many of us out here who have your back every day, just as I feel you have ours.

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. - 9th Amendment

    by TracieLynn on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:23:13 PM PST

    •  Liberal media (none / 0)

      These ideas persist because of the Liberal Media, don't you get it?

      I rarely turn on my TV and just watch something that is on.  Yesterday I watched 6 minutes of the Wall Street Journal Editorial Report on PBS (PBS!) and the talking heads on there went on and on about how universities need to be forced to put in conservative views, in order that things be "balanced."

      I was appalled.

      Academic freedom is crucial to the culture, let alone the country.  If the conservative view is so compelling, let it publish in journals and stand on peer review. If it truly is compelling, it will survive.

      Six minutes was all I could stand.

      And now they tell me the media has a "liberal bias."

      My wife and I own horses.  Every day we shovel the same thing these "folks" are shoveling...

      Ms. Sheehan, please keep doing what you are doing.  From where I sit, it looks like good citizenship to me!

      -7.13, -8.41

      by evilpenguin on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:34:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I can't take those shows (none / 0)

        especially since I don't have health insurance these days.  I've got to get back to playing to tennis to work out some of this frustration.

        The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. - 9th Amendment

        by TracieLynn on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:42:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Cindy Sheehan Anthem (3.83 / 6)

    Here you go, Cindy. I've been working on this for quite awhile, and finally the last verses have come true. You are transporting the fate of a nation.

    (Sung to the movie theme song to M.A.S.H)

    Through early morning fog I see
     Visions of the things to be
     The pain of war is real for me
     I realize now and I can see, that...

    (Refrain):
    Bush's war is aimless.
    His policy is heinous.
    Our troops are dying; help us if you can!

    I try to find a way to make
     This mad and pointless war abate
     Without that ever-present hate
     But now it may just be too late, 'cause...

    (Refrain)

    The game of life is hard to play
     We're gonna lose it anyway
     The losing card we daily lay, as
     Our troops lose their lives in the fray.

    (Refrain)

    To win we must turn up the heat
     To tell the truth before we're beat
     And remove bad leaders from their seat
     For that's the only worthwhile feat.

    (Refrain)

    The sword of time will pierce our skin
     I trust my path as I begin
     Each day I push my way on in
     If I'm arrested, watch me win, 'cause...

    (Refrain)

    A leader I once begged to see
     To answer questions that are key
     "Is war to be or not to be?"
     And he replied "Oh why ask me?"

    (Refrain):
    'Cause Bush's war is aimless.
    His policy is heinous.
    Our troops are dying; help us if you can!

    ...And you can do the right thing if you choose.

    by Pluto on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:23:38 PM PST

  •  Happy to help (4.00 / 18)

    with the legal end of things, Cindy.  My calendar just happens to be free for November 16. :) My e-mail is in my profile; get in touch and we can talk.  I'm located in Maryland but licensed in both MD and DC.  Whatever you need, I'm available.

    by jsmdlawyer on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:25:46 PM PST

  •  Gallantry may seem the province of fighters (4.00 / 4)

    But being from overseas and growing up when the memories of war were still searing, I know better: mothers and grieving parents are second to none when selfless sacrificing is required - and that is non-plus gallantry in any fair person's book. Along with my congratulations for your sterling action today, please know I find your weathering the disreputable attacks you are subject day in and day out by so many dishonorable people in the press nothing less than exemplary, the stuff that sets you really apart. Cheers.

    siamo uomini o caporali?

    by TOTO rules on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:26:46 PM PST

  •  Schiavo Right-wingers vs. YOU! (4.00 / 7)

      Dear Cindy,  Why was it Ok for right-wingers to protest and trash my neighborhood?  I live 3 blocks  from Mike Schiavo.  Why were they allowed to shut down a elementary school and harrass all of the patients/families at the hospice?  Is it only Bushco and their minions that can walk on a sidewalk without a threat of being arrested?  I love you dearly (my son Casey,, is in Afghanistan right now and things are not well there either with our WAR A) WAR B is totally FUBAR and I am so proud of you for waking up OUR AMERICA!  It is our country, not Bushcos and they better all get arrested for  their transgressions or I will become your best buddy on the trail.  Do you like puppy Chihuahuas?    

    To Congress: "GO BIG" or go home

    by mjd in florida on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:30:21 PM PST

  •  You Are Making History (none / 1)

    It surely would be physically more comfortable to curl up on your own couch with a good book.  But instead you are out there, putting yourself in harms way for us and our children.  This is what a patriot does.  This is what a hero does.  You are one very special patriot.

    I Want My Country Back.

    by donna in evanston on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:43:39 PM PST

  •  The irony of Iraq... (4.00 / 2)

    The official company line is we're in Iraq to promote freedom and democracy but meanwhile at home we're putting mothers in jail for peacefully protesting on public property? Does this make sense to anyone?

    What a mixed message we're sending to the Iraqis today. We just finished laying the ground work for an Iranian style theoracy and now we're demostrating how commited we really are to free speech here at home. If I was an Iraq I'd be scared to death today.

    "Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere"

    by Morbo on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:44:59 PM PST

  •  Thank you, Cindy. (none / 0)

    You're an inspiration to us all. In a way, you remind me of my own mom, because I'm certain that if she were in your shoes, she would have been our protesting (and getting arrested) today as well.

    Keep fighting the good fight!

    ---
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

    by edicius on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:47:13 PM PST

  •  Great job, Cindy! (none / 0)

    I should go your route next time - at least you had a chance to plan when you were going to be arrested!

    But then again, I don't think I could pass off "excessive speeding" as a protest..  :)

    It was great to meet you at Agape in L.A.!

    Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? - Mary Oliver, "The Summer Day"

    by Rico on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:47:36 PM PST

  •  Cindy... (4.00 / 2)

    call the ACLU and I am sure they will defend you.

    In addition, thank you for your efforts and for being the leader of a great and historic cause.

    We must work to address all of the problems that this war has caused and we must have a serious course correction in these wars. Thank you again.

    Honor bound to defend freedom. Freedom is long-standing army regulations (4th amendment).

    by RichardG on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:50:54 PM PST

  •  Cindy, you rock (4.00 / 2)

    I would engage in civil disobedience and risk arrest, but I'm afraid of cavity searches.  Seriously.  If I knew they wouldn't do that, I'd be THERE baby.

    Cindy, thank you so much.  You've risked a ton to do this.  I can't imagine the personal stress you've been through, and continue to go through, on top of the incredible loss of Casey.  I'm so sorry, and I thank you.  It's understandable how families of dead soldiers glom onto the "died for their country" meme.  Grief is a horrible thing, and no one can judge another's.  One grasps for understanding and meaning.  Casey's death DOES have meaning.  He DID die for a noble cause.  Just not the one chimpy mcsmirkyton puts forth.

    I was in the Kossack group at the rally Saturday, directly in front of you.  I swear this is true... the sight of you made me feel positively joyous.  You actually give me hope.  You just don't know what you mean to all of us.

    Have I said thank you?  Thank you.

    "We're the only species that follows unstable pack leaders." ~ Cesar Millan

    by deBOraaah on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:53:16 PM PST

    •  Ha! (none / 0)

      I would risk arrest but NO cavity searches.  My ex is a DC cop and I would not want those hands on me to save my life!

      Cindy is speaking at the University of Maryland tomorrow night.  Anyone who can make it, should go!

      Also, besides needing a lawyer, what can we continue to do the help?  Being at the protest on the Mall on Saturday was so inspiring, we need to keep the momentum going.  Any suggestions???

      by pmob5977 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:06:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Cindy (none / 0)

    I'd consider it an honor to be arrested with you.  When you get back to CA, drop me an e-mail and I'll go to the state capitol with you.   There was an article a while back that basically stated that you and other familes who have lost loved ones in Iraq have the "moral authority."  I agree with that 100%.  Frankly, when my repug chickenhawk friend chirps, "War is hell," I want to smack her.  Her husband pulled strings to keep her two sons out of Vietnam.  How do they live with themselves?

    I do not know what weapons World War III will be fought with. World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -- Albert Einstein

    by elveta on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:53:53 PM PST

    •  In my experience, (none / 0)

      Your chickenhawk's friend fits right in with the general gop "I'll get mine, screw you" mentality.

      They rail against entitlements, unless, of course, they themselves are entitled to something.  

      There will be coffee and cookies in the Gandhi Room after the revolution -- Unitarian Jihad

      by Auntie Mame on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 04:11:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I checked the First Amendment (4.00 / 6)

    And I can't find the bit covering "peaceably assembly" and "petitioning the government for redress of grievances" that mentions needing a FUCKING PERMIT.

    Sorry...but you know how we got to the point where 8 soldiers died in Iraq today with little notice, because like a boiled frog, no one raised hell over little things like this permit requirement.

    www.mykeru.com
    Home of the September 24 protest video with bonus Freeper mocking

    by Reverend Mykeru on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 05:55:26 PM PST

    •  We must remain focused and ddiscerning...` (4.00 / 7)

      Permits and licenses as a rrequisite to excercise Constitutional rights are ostensibly legal under the 14th Amendment. This is well-established Constitutional law and no Constitutional attorney worthy of counsel wouldn't touch it in a million years.  As previously stated, Cindy should remain focused on the single-minded goal of ending this war and bringing our troops home.

      As a PR consultant with 12 years experience, I absolutely agree that any diversion from the 'end the war' message would simply dilute  the very important story that Cindy has worked so hard and courageously to affect.

      Cindy, I know you didn't need our advice but as another Kossack said in this string, please be very careful of lurkers on here. They are out to undermine you and trap you with questions and leading narratives that aren't always obvious. You're a lot smarter than they think you are, but every day as part of my job I work with reporters and other influential people who are very adept at trying to get my clients to say things that they can twist or use against them. I don't trust the Right-Wingers and (perhaps because it is my line of work) I fear that they will do anyting to discredit you and this movement. You have become a spokesperson and they are unscrupulous enough to set traps for you -  just be discerning and careful when you f/u on your diaries on Kos because the more you say the more you open yourself up to risk.

      That said, you will never know what you have done means to us. My mother called me when she first saw you on TV in tears and you have turned her into a anti-war activist back in the little town where I grew up. My brother died suddenly when he was 24 (same age as Casey) and in a way only a mother can fully know my mom feels connected to you through your shared loss of a son who was also an adult and a friend. We did not lose him in war as you lost Casey, but it just goes to show how you are affedting the lives of people in ways you can never know. You are family to my mom now, now - she has found a positive place to focus her pain over my brother's death for the first time since it happened nearly 10 years ago. Thank you for that. You are in our prayers and have touched our lives and we will never be the same as individuals, as families or as a nation.

      You are loved. Please take care of yourself, and know that the better half of America has got your back!

      -Thomas

      by Redneck Aeschylus on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:44:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Congratulations--It Worked (3.75 / 4)

    Cindy, these arrests made national radio and TV broadcasts all day--on a work day, when people are in their regular routines and able to take notice.

    By contrast the vastly larger event of Saturday was not covered at all by many outlets.

    I'll say it again: this is what democracy looks like.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:02:37 PM PST

  •  Cindy, (none / 0)

    You're a real living action hero in my world.

    by nowness on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:24:29 PM PST

  •  Oregon is with you (none / 0)

    Although our worthless local TV anchors in the Portland Metropolitan area just gave you a mention, everyone that I have talked to in this bluer than blue state, loves you and we think you have "true grit."

    "... - because it's about reclaiming America's soul." Paul Krugman

    by libbie on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:25:51 PM PST

  •  Thank You, Cindy Sheehan. (none / 0)

    You are a true patriot.  America is waking up, thanks to your courage and sacrifice.

    America: Arsenal of Democracy

    by YukonJack on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:26:27 PM PST

  •  Awesome! (none / 0)

    You're going to actually challenge the permit requirement??

    That's fantastic!

    I've always hated those laws. Some day i'm going to be at a protest where it's going to get legal and i'm going to (if i have the good sense to prepare) pull out a picture of the bill of rights and say "This is my permit!" in response to that question.

    by Shapeshifter on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:36:29 PM PST

    •  14th Amendment = permits are OK (none / 0)

      the argument against permits would get you no where but in jail.  It is worth doing a little homework on this subject to understand how 14 applies but believe me, it does. Not understanding how 14 affects your rights under the Constitution and under civil law could get you in trouble if you want to be an activist. I highly recommend everyone take some time to look into it and understand it and I don't mean just read the text of 14 because it won't be clear to you at first.

      by Redneck Aeschylus on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:27:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree... (none / 0)

        But i admit i am probably in the minority there.

        (Unless you're going to make an argument from property rights, in which case i would suggest that does not apply here in any case.)

        by Shapeshifter on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:15:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  He's just trying to talk some sense (none / 0)

          I won't cite again the D.C. Court of Appeal decision which I cited above, but I suggest that you consult a constitutional law textbook before recommending a wasteful course of action.

          We're all in this together.

          by JTML on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:47:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Sounds like you survived... (none / 0)

    Your run in with the law just fine.  The right wing talking heads are trying to make you out as a dangerous radical.  But I think we know who the dangerous radical really is.  He spent his weekend inside a mountain in Colorado or something.  I know you had a more pleasant  weekend than he did.

    Keep your head clear.  Make sure you know what your next step is before you take it.  If things seem to be going too fast, take a rest break. Take care of yourself, and God bless.  

    We need to push for Progressive reforms, now more than ever.

    by keepinon on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:39:18 PM PST

  •  dear Cindy (none / 1)

    Dear Cindy,
        You have shown us amazing grace to stand up and be heard after your tremendous loss. Like Many here , I wish that I could have gone to Crawford with you a month ago, personal circumstance forbade it. But, my congressman and senators have been hearing the message for a year and a half now. Keep up the good work. My hope is that having many thousands of us on your side can help you with the grief you must still be feeling. I wish George Bush could have even a little empathy but it seems that this is beyond his abilities. We will get our country back.

    by berko on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:40:15 PM PST

  •  John Conyers in action again (4.00 / 3)

    http://www.conyersblog.us/archives/00000255.htm

    Cindy Sheehan and 370 protestors arrested, some being held for hours on buses

    Cindy Sheehan was arrested along with 370 other protestors today in front of the White House. The president would like to keep Cindy quiet and he clearly wasn't interested in...

    Cindy Sheehan was arrested along with 370 other protestors today in front of the White House. The president would like to keep Cindy quiet and he clearly wasn't interested in reading the 200,000 letters asking him questions about the war. In the spirit of non-violent civil disobedience, Cindy and the others waited for answers until the police took them away.

    We have heard from those arrested and they are being held in buses and vans at the Anacostia Park Police Station. They have been cuffed in these vehicles for hours and have been told that they should expect to be held there past midnight. Park Police officials have confirmed that there will be no efforts to transport any of these people once they are released. Those who are released after the subway has closed (around 11:45pm), will be stranded out there. Cabs can seldom be found at this part of the city.

    Some of my volunteers have reached out to people in the DC area and organizations in town for the rally to see if arrangements can be made to pick up those who are released too late to get public transportation home.

    Poll worked 7am to 5pm! Ran caucus till 10:30pm! Proud Texas dem!

    by AHiddenSaint on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:41:23 PM PST

  •  I volunteer Cindy (4.00 / 2)

    Though I am sure someone of your stature will get far better representation than I can offer, I would be honored to handle your case if you don't have a better offer.

    Thank you for allowing me to march with you Saturday.  I was proud to be there, and got to march just about fifteen feet away from you down Pennsylvania Ave.  It made me tear up.

    I'm a state criminal defense attorney in Michigan with about 10 years experience.  I know little about D.C. law, and there may be some procedural issues that could complicate or prevent me from handling your case.  But, I would be happy to look into it, and if possible, to represent you pro bono.

    E-mail me at tjayolson@hotmail.com if you are truly in need.

    Thank you again for all you are doing.  You are an inspiring person.  Your son was lucky to have a mother as loving as you.  I am so sorry for your loss, and I know that your efforts are going to save other mothers, fathers, siblings, children and friends from losing their loved ones in such a senseless way.

    by BostonJoe on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 06:41:41 PM PST

  •  Center for Constitutional rights? (none / 1)

    Great to ask on KOS, but why not conctact a group like the Center for Constitutional rights--they were born in the Civil Rights Movement and work on a number of really important issues, but perhaps the first amendment is not there thing.  Or the ACLU of course.  

    http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/home.asp

    by markymarx on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:09:28 PM PST

  •  More coverage of the anti-war rally and march (none / 1)

    was seen by myself on MSM today than it was all weekend.  Thank you and keep up the noble fight!  Anything planned for the First Monday in October?

    by pithnvinegar on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:17:37 PM PST

  •  Thanks for all that you do, Cindy (none / 0)

    I am proud to call you a friend - and very grateful that you continue to fight so that my son and others won't suffer the same fate as Casey.  

    by Sharon Jumper on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:22:21 PM PST

  •  RE: Challenge an Unconstitutional Law (4.00 / 3)

    Cindy,

    Bring this with you when you go to court.

    The Bill of Rights: A Transcription

    Note: The following text is a transcription of the first ten amendments to the Constitution in their original form. These amendments were ratified December 15, 1791, and form what is known as the "Bill of Rights."

    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    [my emphasis!!!]

    Amendment II...

    by robolywa on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:28:15 PM PST

  •  A lawyer to contact (none / 0)

    Cindy - try to contact Jesalyn Radack (the former DOJ lawyer turned whistleblower who we met at the Vets for Peace conference in Dallas).  She's a member of the DC and MD bars.

    by Sharon Jumper on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:36:59 PM PST

  •  Cindy, thank you for protecting (4.00 / 2)

    America's sons and daughters.

    I am in my mid-40s, so I have lived through a number of administrations (that I'm old enough to remember.)  But I have never been so afraid of the government of my own country as I am of the Bush administration.  They are a scary,  threatening gang of thugs.  My husband and I are actually taking initial steps to position ourselves to move out of the country if things don't improve in a few years.  It will be an immense hardship - financially and emotionally.  But we do not want to live in a fascist police state.

    Support The Troops, Demand The Truth

    by MamaBear on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:41:08 PM PST

  •  I salute you, the newest Martin Luther King, (none / 0)

    our most recent Mahatma Ghandi.  Become for us a model of non-violent resistance and help us to follow you down a rarely-travelled path.

    Obama-Biden 2012!

    by DCDemocrat on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:47:02 PM PST

  •  Fighting the Fine (4.00 / 3)

    This seems to be the topic that gets the most interest/controversy.

    I think the answer what to do about the fine depends  on what can be made of it. Here, I am thinking of my days in the FSM, Berkeley Vietnam Day Committee and union organizing, 35-40 years ago.

    If a fund to defend you can be raised, and if we can get a well-named hi-profile legal defense, it might be worth the trouble. The goal of this defense should be to rise through the Courts with as much publicity as possible.

    For those who say lacking a permit justifies the fine, I say PHOOEY! That's just too law-abiding for me. Here I ask several questions:

    1. What would Gandhi do? Ex: the march to the sea to make salt illegally.

    2. What would MLK do? Ex: the Selma march.

    3. What did we do in Berkeley? Ex: troop train protests.

    The authorities never grant permission to protest and change their policies. We have to grant ourselves that permission. What's been lacking in the anti-war movement so far is the guts to take direct action. Now you've done it and I support that 100%. I hope to join the action at some point, ill or not.


    DO NOT BACK DOWN.

    Don't do foolish things, but make the most of your opportunity. If the fine cannot be parlayed into a greater demonstration, a greater movement, just pay it and forget it. Move on to the next thing.

    You've put yourself at the head of line, so now you're the leader of a movement. That's different from any personal grievance.

    Finally, I'm an old man now, here in Davis, and everyone I know from Daly City to the Oregon border is 100% behind you.

    PS: I'm wondering if we can get our Congressman - Thompson - to say bull bleep about this. Like put in a bill to change the law. He did go to Baghdad before the invasion, and says he's against the war.

    I am trying to help you with my blog.

    Walter L Battaglia

    by WalterB on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:47:08 PM PST

  •  Consider paying the fine (3.66 / 3)

    Cindy, the first amendment issue it looks like you're pressing here is a losing one.  If you didn't file for a permit, and didn't move when asked, and don't intend to pay the fine because you're trying to engage in civil disobediance to generate attention for the cause, great.  But I also worry that this provides an angle for your opponents to discredit you before moderate americans.  This business with the permit and fine has nothing to do with your anti-war message, and I think that moderate americans, when told that you wouldn't apply for a permit, refused to keep moving when police asked you to, and now refuse to pay the fine, will think that you're just trying to be difficult.  You'll lose the sympathy that the death of your son has generated.  I'm not saying that this is fair; I'm just saying that its reality.  

    This could easily become a sideshow that your opponents will be more than happy to suck you into.  Those that say there's no such thing as bad publicity are wrong.  This is bad publicity.  I don't think you should take my word for this, but I do think you seek advice on this issue from some supporters that you respect.

    by gsteff on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 07:59:50 PM PST

    •  No, no, no (none / 0)

      I totally disagree.

      The point of protesting the fine is to get her day in court to speak out against the war in a forum where the media will pay attention to her. My paper didn't have much coverage of the protest, but there's a decent size photo and story about Cindy getting arrested today.

      There will be coffee and cookies in the Gandhi Room after the revolution -- Unitarian Jihad

      by Auntie Mame on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 04:48:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I Confess to Particular Relish (3.66 / 3)

    OK, there you are, Cindy:  no CIA, no FEMA, no Daddy's Money, no FBI, no Army, Navy, Senate, House, Mainstream Media, corrupt Supreme Court, no Poppy, no Laura, no Karl, no Cheney to tell you what to do.

    Just courage, sorrow, clear-sightedness, and the force of truth.

    And, as you pursue President Bush, to confront him with your truth -- our truth, the truth of what is decent in the American heart -- he runs away.

    And, judging by his recent photographs and public appearances, he's not doing so well.

    There are some who reckon that our preznit, the dry drunk, is warming up his innards with fire-water again.  He's not real smart, and probably they don't tell him some things (I doubt he knew about 9-11 in advance, but I think Cheney ran that show) but still I think he's smart enough to know he is now being revealed by events to be a colossal fraud, a sock puppet, a weakling, a liar, a coward and a traitor to his country.  And so, if he's not drinking now, he will be soon.

    So, maybe when he's out of office, and Poppy dies and he gets his share of all that money, maybe he can just hide, and drink, and the twins will be, well drunks probably, but grown-up drunks, so who will care, but in the meantime he's got 3-1/2 years in which he has to stand up there, revealed as all of the awful things he is.  And OK, there are 40% of the people who are so suckered in that he couldn't disillusion them if he "ate a live baby and bellowed, Hail Satan!" on national TV . . . but the rest of us, and virtually the entire world outside the USA, is onto him.  I think that reality is finally sinking in.

    And in those countries where supposedly our show of macho brutality has instilled such respect and fear, they see a craven, weak man in flight from the mother of a dead soldier.  She follows him, demanding the truth.  He runs away.  She persists; Karl slaps him around, probably, telling him to lay off the sauce, and then flies him out to some far-away photo-op where Cindy Sheehan isn't.

    The one who has suffered the worst loss a parent can suffer is arrested, but smiling and unafraid.

    The drunk with the silver spoon up his ass cowers, grimaces, is plainly fearful, and can barely utter a lucid sentence.  He squirms, rocks, twitches, rambles, his face blotchy, his demeanor in no way reassuring.

    The Iraqis willing to die to rid their country of a brutal foreign occupier see the Heroic Leader, bleary-eyed and in flight from . . . a woman armed only with love and truth . . . and take his measure accordingly.  He cannot stand up to one of his own people.  He cannot deal with the truth.  When resisted with conviction, he runs away.  That is no leader, that's a shit-bag.  You're kicking his ass, Cindy.  Good, I believe, can come from evil, and the terrible loss of your son is being redeemed in our sight.  It's wonderful to behold.  There is no way to thank you sufficiently.

    "A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."

    by proudtinfoilhat on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:01:30 PM PST

    •  They hate us for our freedom. (none / 0)

      freedom to be harassed intimidated arrested and
      bullied.  Freedom to be killed in a useless war.
      Free to give up our constitutional rights.  Freedom to have our economy tank, free to be unemployed, free to be discriminated against, freedom to live in poverty, free to have no health care.  And freedom to worship the chimperor.

      by object16 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:01:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hey, Cindy, today the leader of the Pro-War group, (3.75 / 4)

    some obnoxious woman, was on Sean Hannity and said that there were not a lot of pro-war people there because they were afraid of coming into contact with unwashed, violent hippies like you! The gentleman who was opposing her said that she was disgusting and Sean Hannity was too, for having a program like this.

    Sean Hannity was encouraging her and agreeing with her every step of the way. My point: you are terrifying them with the truth.  Keep plugging, keep speaking out, I have never heard Hannity whine like he has the last month, you can hear the fear in his voice.  We "radical left-wing American-hating liberals" are now over 60% of the country and growing.  

    Bless you,

    My new bumper sticker: Palin-Satan '12

    by adigal on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:04:10 PM PST

  •  Thanks Cindy! (none / 0)

    Did not realize that you needed a "permission slip" to protest peacefully? After all, logic suggests that since BUSH did not need a "permission slip" for war, that YOU certainly would not need a "permission slip" to protest and advance the cause of peace. It is early, and I assure you I'm not drunk. But somehow the warped sense of logic escapes me.

    "We must be the change we wish to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi

    by jeeves on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:17:19 PM PST

  •  You Make History... (4.00 / 2)

    ...and history makes you.

    May you not have to take a letter opener in the chest as King did.

    May you live to prove that it is only because the rich elitists insist on taking the lives of our heroes that heroes have ever fallen.

    May God's peace find you and keep you.

    Nothing real can be threatened.  Nothing unreal exists.  Therein lies the peace of God.

    by Paul475 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:24:56 PM PST

  •  Way To Go Cindy! (none / 0)

    Congrats on your first arrest.  You are to be commended for leading a truly Noble Cause.

    Please don't forget Congress.  They are the ones who continue to protect Georgy Boy in the face of the numerous transgressions you mentioned.

    Now that the Bush lies about Iraq are in plain site, those in Congress who continue to drink the Neo-Con KoolAid and continue to advocate US involvement in Iraq, must be made targeted for protest.

    Many of them are hiding behind Colen Powell's pottery barn principle in reverse.  They say that now that we have broken it, we have to stay and fix it.

    Well I have another principle that you can hit these  "we got to fix it" Congress people with that is more applicable to Iraq.  Its from a children's nursery rhyme, and goes like this:

    "Humpty Iraqi was pushed off the wall;
    Humpty Iraqi lay broken after the fall;
    All King George's horses and all King George's men;
    Couldn't put Humpty Iraqi back together again."

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:28:43 PM PST

  •  Eh i went to the Protest then i headed home. (none / 0)

    Went Back to FL i took lots of Pictures when i went to get them developed i only got half of them. The woman i talked to had one of those I support the Troops shirts on and by the way she  acted i could tell she was a Bush supporter. I could'nt get half back because she said somone in the far background had a sign up saying F**K and somthing anyway they said i could'nt have them was wondering if they can get away with that. Also best of luck to you Cindy i enjoyed your speech Saturday.

    Rebuild America. Obama 08!

    by dieharddemocrat on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:42:53 PM PST

  •  Watching PBS (3.66 / 3)

     Bob Dylan. They are talking about a collective sub-concience and that at a moment in time he embodied it. I agree. Cindy, I believe that you have tapped into that same river for this moment. Stay safe and follow your heart.

    "Take it back, take it back. Oh no you can't say that. All of my friends are not dead or in jail." John Prine

    by high uintas on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:57:12 PM PST

  •  Cindy: consider holding a RAFFLE instead (none / 1)

    I understand why you would want to refuse to pay the fine and to spend time in jail instead, but I have to echo the comments above about time, place and manner restrictions being both well-established and reasonable.  It's not clear to me how you, the ACLU, CCR, and anyone else would win your case based on current law.

    So here's an alternative plan to consider:  hold a raffle.

    That is, anyone who enters the raffle -- call it the "RIGHT TO PROTEST RAFFLE" -- sends in $75 (or some portion of it, whatever they can afford) to a special portion of the Gold Mothers Fund.  A day before your hearing, you reach into a bag a pull out the name of the winner or winners who have the honor of paying your fine.  That's a prize I'd love to win, as I'm sure would others.

    Given the amount of money and media interest this would raise, it strikes me as much better PR than what you're contemplating.  It shows how many of us there are who want to support you.  It gives us all a chance to get behind your action in a meaningful way rather than to see some judge jail you for contempt for breaking a reasonable law.  (If they were unreasonably refusing to give out permits, as with the Bloomberg administration in New York, then I'd feel differently, but nothing I've read here suggests that that's the case.)  I hope that you'll consider it.

    Whichever way you go, best of luck.

    If somebody writes a book and doesn't care for [its] survival, he's an imbecile.

    ~ Umberto Eco

    by Major Danby on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:09:21 PM PST

    •  Cool Idea (none / 0)

      Or.... How about if 75 people show up to pay her fine, $1 each?  That could be fun theater.

      America's health care system is neither healthy, caring, nor a system. Walter Cronkite

      by x on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:21:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hell.. (none / 0)

      Just start a legal defense fund. Then go back and get arrested EVERYDAY!

      Show up at the courthouse on every court date, and pay your fines...IN PENNIES!

      THAT will get more publicity than you know what to do with! $75.00/day is CHEAP ADVERTISEMENT!!!

      No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. ~Edward R. Murrow

      by mlkisler on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:32:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  9/11 the forgotten crime (none / 1)

    Cindy you go through a list of neo-con crimes but leave out the big one.  The evidence that 9/11 is an inside job is overwelming for those who are willing to deal with the depression that sets in after accepting that.
    It is too much to ask, but could you gradually prepare people dealing with the depression they'll have to face eventually?

    by mooij on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:22:09 PM PST

  •  The Dali Lama speaks for me (none / 1)

    Americans need to realize that we are just a piece of the whole of existence, and
    war is an outdated concept.

    Be The Media

    by wild salmon on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:29:50 PM PST

  •  Demonstrating without a permit. (none / 0)

    I thought that the First Amendment was your permit to demonstrate.

    Only children and f@gs ride bicycles - received wisdom from the Tea Bagger's Ball

    by calipygian on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:31:45 PM PST

  •  photos of today (none / 1)

    Cindy you were great today!  You were on CNN the moment they arrested you.

    I started off at the White House, ran to Starbucks at 12:50 to post pics, and at 1:46 I was at lunch when CNN started flashing pics of you on the telly.

    I ran back to Lafayette Park to see what all was going on.

    Here are my pics - I got some good ones:
    http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/thalia115/album?.dir=/3799

    By the way, the one picture of the group of kids making out on the flag really bothered me.  Someone commented they must be rolling, and that bugged me even more.  This wasn't an event for drugs or for disrespecting the flag.

    Check out my food blog!

    by OrangeClouds115 on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:33:02 PM PST

  •  Oh Cindy (none / 0)

    I hope you're alright tonight.

    Bush is the one who should be locked up.

    We're with you all the way.

    Lillian in Healdsburg

    by hobo on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 09:40:53 PM PST

  •  I saw you grinning (none / 0)

    when they were carrying you the paddywagon!  

    Then Medea called Randi Rhoads & apparently  dropped her phone on the ground during her arrest & Randi aired it live.  It was great!  

    America's health care system is neither healthy, caring, nor a system. Walter Cronkite

    by x on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:05:14 PM PST

    •  Next Time GO LIMP! (none / 1)

      Make them WORK for their $75!

      When you go limp, you become "dead weight" and VERY HARD to carry. Which means it takes longer to get you into the van, which causes a BIGGER spectacle, which gets you more camera time!

      This isn't resisting arrest, it's civil disobedience....Because you're NOT resisting... You're just "relaxing"!    :o)

      AND...Seeing that footage show up on the 10pm News will EMBARRASS the HELL out of them!

      No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. ~Edward R. Murrow

      by mlkisler on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:38:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Keep it up Cindy! (none / 0)

    Us folks back in Sacramento are behind you! Please let us know anytime you're planning something for the state capital.

    The Blooog - I know I'm on your list you damned spooks.

    by The Blooog on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 10:39:10 PM PST

  •  You Never Forget... (none / 0)

    ...your First Time!

    BTW, I don't pay his salary, either.  What if...?

    But then, what do I know?  I'm just a bearded unemployed philosopher who lives in a cabin by a pond.

    Oh yeah, I think there was a black guy, and a guy from India, who read my book about going to jail, too.  I heard it just got them into lots of trouble.

    You, Cindy, have what the law calls "standing" to complain about this war.  Above all, you have moral standing beyond comparison.  (The dead are curiously silent as to the wrongs they have suffered.  "It is we the living..." alone who may speak out as their voices.)

    We all recognize now that King and Gandhi had "standing" to take on the oppressions they eventually overcame.

    When will the rest of us recognize that we also have similar "standing" to end this oppression that is stealing our lives from us, too?  We have justification -- moral, and perhaps legal justification -- to suspend our cooperation with the Social Compact that has been usurped by a junta installed in a coup d'etat.

    You might like to read parts of King's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail."  I've printed out its 12 pages and it accompanies me today out into the Fall sunshine.

    http://historicaltextarchive.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=40

    We really don't have to re-invent these particular wheels.  Why, we've even got holidays named after people who've gone this way before.

    They just call it "Independence Day", rather than "Civil Disobedience Day."

    If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State...

    by HenryDavid on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:07:29 PM PST

  •  Iraqis on Cindy Sheehan (none / 1)

    From the LA Times:

    American Mother Has Iraqi Audience
    By Borzou Daragahi
    Times Staff Writer

    September 22, 2005

    BAGHDAD -- Khalda Khalaf feels Cindy Sheehan's pain. She's been there, too.

    Her 28-year-old son, Majid Khalid Kabi, died in 2004 fighting on the opposite side in the same months-long stretch of clashes between Shiite militiamen and U.S. soldiers in which Spc. Casey Sheehan perished.

    "Of course, she's a mother and just like our people are hurting, she's hurting too," says Khalaf, a 52-year-old resident of Sadr City, the east Baghdad slum where Sheehan's son died in April 2004. "Just as she wants America out of Iraq, so do we."

    Sheehan, the antiwar mom who is due to lead thousands of demonstrators converging on Washington on Saturday to protest the U.S.-led war, has become a minor celebrity in Iraq as well. The same satellite channels that bring quick, often gruesome coverage of the violence in Iraq to the nation's TV screens also gave regular updates on Sheehan's lengthy vigil outside President Bush's Texas ranch.

    Forty years ago, during the Vietnam War, Ho Chi Minh and his top deputies kept a close eye on U.S. public opinion and the antiwar movement. Now on the streets of Baghdad, Najaf and Mosul, even ordinary Iraqis have heard of Cindy Sheehan and formed opinions about her and her movement.

    "I sympathize with her and her cause, but I don't think that the American administration will be affected by such a thing," said Hassan Hashim Mahmoud, a 32-year-old government employee in Najaf.

    Television and newspapers have reported the upcoming marches. And footage of her speaking before previous rallies, aired on television channels such as Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya and Al Sharqiya, has made Iraqis aware of the antiwar movement in the United States.

    Even poor families such as Khalaf's know about Sheehan via "news" videos distributed by political parties, such as the radical Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada Sadr's movement, for whom Kabi died in August 2004 in Najaf.

    To some Iraqis, Sheehan's stand at Bush's ranch and her continuing opposition to the war make her a hero.

    "The president doesn't have the credibility to face the mother of the U.S. soldier who was killed in a war that many in the U.S. say was a fatal mistake," columnist Muthana Tabaqchali wrote in the Iraqi daily Azzaman, which the U.S. Embassy considers hostile to the American mission in Iraq.

    "Sheehan was a lady who stood like a lioness with her lofty staff in front of the president," he wrote. "She collected all her strength and motherhood to face the strongest president in the world to tell him enough!"

    Others, however, view her with cynicism.

    "This might be a part of a political game, like when pictures of prisoners' abuses in Abu Ghraib prison were published, just to harm President Bush's reputation," said Hameed Shabak, 35, a Mosul resident.

    In front of the Faqma ice cream shop in Baghdad's Karada district, Fathel Saad, a silver-haired professor of philosophy and theology at Babel College south of Baghdad, debated a friend about Sheehan while finishing up an ice cream cone.

    "I think she is misguided," Saad said. "What the Americans have given Iraq is the greatest gift: the freedom to think."

    His friend, schoolteacher Fares Mukhlis, disagreed. "This is a brave woman standing up for her principles that are correct," he said.

    Nabeal Mohammed Younis, a professor of political science at Baghdad University, recalled seeing Sheehan's image on Al Jazeera, the Arab news channel, while having lunch at a Baghdad hotel with colleagues.

    "We said that this woman is not very different from the women in Iraq who've lost their sons," Younis recalled. "We started talking about Cindy Sheehan and started to distinguish between how the women are affected by the war and how the men are affected."

    With thousands of Iraqis killed in violence since the March 2003 invasion and with the legacy of Saddam Hussein's tyranny still haunting them, Iraqis are inclined to sympathize with a grieving mother, regardless of their political views, Younis said.

    "Most of them are with her and share her misery for losing her son," he said.

    Sheehan's plight, as well as the news of thousands of Americans voicing concern about the troubles in Iraq, helped Haqqi Fathulla, a 33-year-old Mosul resident, feel personally connected to Americans.

    "The stand of this woman emphasizes the fact that there are no hostilities between Iraqi and American people," he said.

    by Sharon Jumper on Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:19:58 PM PST

    •  and that, folks (none / 1)

      is one major reason to protest this war, even if it does not get play in our media. the international media, and apparently iraqi cable tv does cover our protests, and your presence at those marches and rallies raising your voice against bush and his war go a long way towards restoring part of our good name abroad, by undermining bush's claim to represent, speak and act on behalf of america's collective will. the 2003 antiwar protests helped me defuse several tense conversations in beijing with taxi drivers upset with the war. i could point to you guys marching in SF, LA, NYC, DC, etc. amd say "see, not all americans agree with bush."

      great catch, sharon.

      surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

      by wu ming on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:16:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fee? (none / 0)

    Sorry if this was mentioned in the hundreds of comments above and I missed it. Is there a fee for a protest permit? If there is, I would think that would be just as unconstitutional as a poll tax for the same reasons.

    by RichDoggP on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:17:26 AM PST

    •  Permit Application fees (none / 0)

      Last I applied for that particular space (tho it's almost 20 years ago) it was free.

      More generally, the courts have allowed a "nominal" fee, to cover the costs of processing the paperwork, but not, for instance, the costs of police presence.

      The highest fee I've heard of being upheld is $50. That's not a firm ceiling, just the one that was contested.

      Pardons: Truman 1,913 Ike 1,110 JFK 472 LBJ 960 Nixon 863 Ford 382 Carter 534 Reagan 393 Bush 74 Clinton 396 Bush 189 Obama O

      by ben masel on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 06:37:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  YOU ARE MY HERO (none / 0)

    Thank you for not giving up. Thank you for your courage. Thank you for your willingness to face evil and call it by its true name. It is sad that none of our elected leaders in Congress have any of your convictions and courage. It is a shame that there is really no leadership worth a damn in either party.

    May God bless you and be with you always. Your son was blessed to have a mother who has loved him and stood up for him in life and in death.

    Keep going and you will save many more sons and daughters. My heart is full of love for you.

    by LOBALUNA on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:30:57 AM PST

  •  Dear Cindy (none / 0)

    Please contact Us by email at infinia@toxicreality.com We wish to discuss your your legal options regarding this and any future tickets of this nature that you recieve.

    by hmsjo on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:37:33 AM PST

  •  Thank you! (none / 1)

    Although the news coverage here in Iraq was even worse than at home, many of us still watched the events of this past weekend. Thank you for what you and the others have done. Your actions have done more to support me and my fellow soldiers than all the yellow ribbons and care packages and flag-waving combined.

    And you've done more to defend democracy than anything I've done in my year over here.

    "Silence is betrayal." --Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by asapp on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:39:24 AM PST

  •  just want (none / 0)

    to add my support for you, Cindy.  I've been writing my Congressmen daily and have gotten no response whatsoever from the Republicans!  They feel no need to be accountable!

    "Ultimately, we are defined by what we create, not by what others destroy."-- James McKinley

    by Fruitcake on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 12:49:24 AM PST

  •  Protest CNN, MSNBC, the others (none / 0)

    It seems to me that CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the MSM are deliberately downplaying the protests.  They did this in 2002, they were doing it in 2003, too.  Saying "hundreds" showed up when there were thousands.  Wolf Blitzer said Cindy was arrested with "dozens" of other protesters when there were 370.  

    There should be a protest outside a major news outlet against their complicity in the war, and their desire to sweep the anti-war movement under the rug.  Would they ignore 200,000 people outside their Atlanta offices?

    By hiding the anti-war movement, or under-reporting the numbers at protests, the illusion is given that it's a marginal few that oppose the war, and that the mainstream supports it.  This in turn sways the opinions of those who only get their news from TV.  

    If there was a protest against the media for covering up the prior protests, they would almost have to cover it, and address the issue of their bias.  The media's propping up of Bush and his Iraq misadventure is what is propogating it to this day.  If anyone deserves protesting more than Bush, it would be them.

    /my soapbox

    PS: Cindy, you rock.

    "Can I just ask a question? What is Fox News, it's just a Parade of Propaganda, isn't it? It's just a Festival of Ignorance." --Lee Camp, FOX News guest

    by twalling on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 01:01:05 AM PST

  •  Why did you look so happy while being arrested? (3.66 / 3)

    And having cameras there at the ready really makes this look more like a PR stunt than an act of civil disobedience. MLK Jr. never did that. Where were all the tears for all of those victims of this war? THAT was the time the people should have seen them. I saw the picture of them carrying you away ( which wasn't included with the batch I received from Afterdowning street). They weren't using force, and you looked like you were in a mosh pit having a ball. No wonder the damn RW goons have such a field day with every damn thing that is done to protest this illegal war.

    Many others here may give you kudos for that, but I think it was wrong of you to smile like that, and  I would like to know why you id it  in that way. I think that hurt your cause. This also isn't about a f*** permit, this is about an illegal pre-emptive war that is still killing people as I type. And again, WHAT is going to come of this? Bush is still in the White House as well. Where and what is the plan?

    And please, DO troll rate this comment to hell to show the entire Internet community how "tolerable" the people here really are. Personally, I'm tried of the "cronyism" displayed here, and want to know some serious answers about where the hell this "movement" is really going, and just how you intend to REALLY hold these murdering bastards accountable for what they have done!

    "I miss the ability to influence events, but I don't miss politics."
    Al Gore In LIFE
    Bergen Record, June 23, 2006

    by Patriot for Al Gore on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 03:54:48 AM PST

  •  Cindy, you haven't yet jumped the shark! (none / 0)

    I almost can't believe it. I thought that by now you would have descended into self-parody as so many of my favorite people have done, but you haven't! You just keep getting better at it! Your strategy appears to be evolving exponentially!

    I'm starting to think you may actually bring these bastards down---with a smile on your face.

    No more money for non-progressive Democrats from me, ever.

    by iconoclastic cat on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 05:11:54 AM PST

  •  ta-da (none / 0)

    Ok, here are my pics posted up in dKos.

    If you were up front getting arrested, here's the show you missed from the back.

    Check out my food blog!

    by OrangeClouds115 on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 06:09:39 AM PST

  •  I admire your guts. We really need you. (none / 0)

    The fine for Demonstrating Without a Permit is $75.00. I am certain that I won't pay it. My court date is November 16th. Any lawyers out there want to help me challenge an unconstitutional law??

    They say it's because of a few courageous men and women that we can all have the freedoms we cherish.

    Bless you. Go get em.

    this is still bigger than any candidate. this is generational.

    by danthrax on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 06:10:58 AM PST

  •  Fox news reporting the arrest often (none / 0)

    this morning, almost with glee.

    by txbirdman on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 06:38:33 AM PST

  •  I remember my first time. (none / 0)

    Are you sure this isn't your first barbie doll?

    by Right of Genghis Khan on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 06:51:22 AM PST

  •  Cindy's spokesman quoted in Wash Times...(OT) (none / 0)

    I don't know where else to post this and I don't think it's worthy of a separate diary, so please forgive me if I go off the topic for a minute. I'm completely confused.  Yeah, I know this article is from the Washington Times, but there's still a quote from Cindy's spokesman (Morrigan Phillips) that Cindy did not create the controversial post of 9/24.  

    The comment was one of a dozen entries, including speech transcripts and press releases, credited to Mrs. Sheehan at the site, which says 79 percent of the "page viewers" are Democrats. Bush-bashing is the daily ritual. But was "Cindy Sheehan" actually Cindy Sheehan? "I am very certain she did not post it," says Morrigan Phillips, a spokesman (Mrs. Sheehan has three) who has taken questions for Mrs. Sheehan on her cross-country protest tour. "She was pretty busy on Saturday."

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050927-120033-8523r.htm

    Now there's a thread on DU suggesting dKos has been duped by an imposter.  What's the truth?

    Jennifer Brunner for Senate

    by Buckeye BattleCry on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 07:25:55 AM PST

  •  Protectors not Protestors (none / 0)

    While your actions are an example for all of us, I would suggest we change our label from protestors to "PROTECTORS". We wish to protect America and all that it stands for.

    I'd buy Medicare rather than regular insurance given the option.

    by mperloe on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 07:34:00 AM PST

  •  Thank You Cindy (none / 0)

    Thank You for being so couragous.  You are always in our thoughts and prayers. Stopping "Murder Incorporated" from continuing their insane quest looks a little more possible because of you. Yet, they will not go down easy.  The road ahead may indeed be even more challenging than any of us imagine.  I don't think we can underestimate how low Rove, Bush, Cheney & Co. will go to continue their corporatist warmonger agenda.  Hang in there Cindy! We're all so proud of what you have done.  You are truly making a difference.  As Always,  Scott

    by scottymortensen on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 07:58:58 AM PST

  •  They Arrested The Wrong Person (none / 0)

    I wish we could have re directed those cops to arrest the real criminal here, to the WH.  They have a bad sense of direction don't they?

    And all those cops securing the WH, what a waste of taxpayers money.  

    by alycedouglas on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 08:12:38 AM PST

  •  Have You Been To jail For Justice (none / 0)

    HAVE YOU BEEN TO JAIL FOR JUSTICE?

    © 1998 Anne Feeney (BMI)

    Was it Cesar Chavez? Maybe it was Dorothy Day
    Some will say Dr. King or Gandhi set them on their way
    No matter who your mentors are it's pretty plain to see
    That, if you've been to jail for justice, you're in good company

    Have you been to jail for justice? I want to shake your hand
    Cause sitting in and lyin' down are ways to take a stand
    Have you sung a song for freedom? or marched that picket line?
    Have you been to jail for justice? Then you're a friend of mine

    You law abiding citizens, come listen to this song
    'Cause laws were made by people, and people can be wrong
    Once unions were against the law, but slavery was fine
    Women were denied the vote and children worked the mine
    The more you study history the less you can deny it
    A rotten law stays on the books til folks with guts defy it

    The law's supposed to serve us, and so are the police
    And when the system fails, it's up to us to speak our peace
    We must be ever vigilant for justice to prevail
    So get courage from your convictions
    Let them haul you off to jail!

    by Mabu on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 08:23:54 AM PST

  •  History (none / 0)

    Cindy, History will show that you have sparked a generation into action. You have helped renew the passion that laid dormant for so long. You the little lady with a heart bigger than all of those that oppose you put together, will lead us in a just fight to save lives. Cindy never stop what you are doing because in the end, the children of those who oppose you will thank-you, as well as those very people.
                    Peace
                    ABA 607

    Freespeech is not free!

    by american badass 607 on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 08:58:14 AM PST

  •  Cindy I have a question (none / 0)

    Are you now black listed from flying?
    Keep up the good work.

    by MR SPARKY on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 10:23:10 AM PST

Permalink | 319 comments