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I was reading this article from MSNBC, and thinking more about Rove's email to Stephen Hadley re: Matt Cooper...

The story of the email is weird. I could never understand it, it just didn't seem that incriminating in its content. What did he mean by "I didn't take the bait" ?? And why did he misrepresent the conversation with Cooper in his communication with Hadley? Was he trying to mislead Hadley?

Then tonite it became obvious: the email was a plant, to mislead investigators. Follow me below with the rationale...

Okay, here's a recap on the chronology:

* Cooper talks to Libby. Libby "casually" supports the Plame info, "I heard that too"

* Rove talks to Cooper. Cooper says that he immediately launched into the Niger issue in this talk, and that Rove explicitly leaked the Plame info in this talk.

* Rove (supposedly) emails Hadley immediately afterwards. Misrepresents the conversation with Cooper as about welfare reform, with a touch of Niger. Says he "didn't take the bait."

* Months later, the investigation gets underway. Rove tells investigators nothing about Cooper.

* Eventually Cooper gets subpoened, but for a while it looks like he won't have to talk.

* Rove learns, via Vivica Novak, that Cooper's source is common knowledge at Time. The cat is out of the bag. But still it doesn't look like Cooper will have to testify.

* Then the judge threatens Cooper with jail. It's clear that Cooper will talk soon.

* Rove then approaches Fitzgerald with the email to Stephen Hadley. One has to ask -- where did this email come from?

* Many months later, Rove will divulge the Vivica Novak tip to Fitzgerald, to stave off an indictment. Rove claims that the Novak tip prompted them to do a renewed search for emails. But this raises as many questions as it answers -- why did it take him months before he gave the email to Fitz?

Now let's get back to the email itself. What is it SAYING?

1. It misrepresents Cooper and Rove's conversation, replacing an explicit Niger talk with an innocuous welfare reform conversation (a story which Matt Cooper HAD BEEN pursuing a few weeks prior).

2. It says Rove "didn't take the bait." What does this mean? It seems to me this means, "Cooper wanted me to leak Plame's identity, but I didn't fall for it."

3. Then it says Rove warned Coop "Time shouldn't get too out front on this story." this general message is the one thing that jives between Rove's and Cooper's stories.

It would seem that all these points help bolster Rove's defense that he DIDN'T leak Plame's name, and that he was cautious in his communications with a reporter. Exactly the message Rove would want to send to the prosecutor.

But it would seem all 3 of these points are untrue, according to Matt Cooper. Simply put, this email contains falsehoods that conveniently came in handy while Rove' defense played out. And if that's the case, one has to ask: then where the hell did this email come from, and why did Rove write it?

I propose three possibilities for where the email came from:

1. It's a plant, written immediately following the Rove/Cooper talk, to throw off investigators down the line. It was then kept in a secret stash of defensive material, and divulged at the right time to help Rove's case. If this is true, this is clearly Obstruction of Justice.

2. It's a plant, written after the Vivica Novak tip. Rove realized he'd have to fess up about Cooper, but he needed a plausible REASON to fess up - he couldn't cite Novak as the motivation (yet). So maybe they cooked up this email, then magicly "found" it and gave it to Fitz? In addition to giving Rove a reason to remember the Cooper talk, the email (as noted above) supports Rove's general defensive stance.

3. It's a genuine communication between Rove and Hadley. But why the errors in content???

4. it's a genuine communication between Rove and Hadley, but using codewords to convey a 2nd meaning. This could go alongside #1 above.

5. It's a genuine communication between Rove and Hadley, but Rove was misrepresenting things in order mislead Hadley (or others)

Increasingly, options #1 and #2 above seem very plausible. But if it WAS a plant, Rove must have been hoping Cooper wouldn't give too many details; for instance, with the welfare reform details. Perhaps Rove was betting that Cooper's story and the planted email story would be "close enough" that Rove would slide through Fitz's fingers.

Instead, the two stories are strikingly different. Sand in the umpire's eyes, as Fitz would call it maybe.

And one final thing: WHERE did this email come from? If it was actually written immediately following the Cooper/Rove talk, did this email come from the same stash of emails that produced the 250 emails from Cheney's office?

By producing this one little email (and trying to save his own skin), did Rove have to divulge the rest of the stash of emails (thus incriminating the VP's office)??? Perhaps under threat of Obstruction of Justice?

And if this email IS a plant, are there other emails that are fakes in that stash too? That could be the smoking fun for an Obstruction of Justice conspiracy...

It WAS reported that Rove spent time the other day answering unexpected questions regarding evidence discovered since his last grand jury appearance......

Originally posted to d bad on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 11:32 PM PDT.


What is up with the Rove email ??

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Comment Preferences

  •  Didn't Bush come right out and say (4+ / 0-)

    Something like "Reporters can't be asked about their nothing will ever come out"? Those of course are my words..but didn't he say, every early on, something like this..and then laugh...Am I crazy? Does anyone else remember this? Bush said something about reporters never revealing their sources.

    "The Truth is far more powerful than any weapon of mass destruction." -Gandhi

    by Chamonix on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 11:46:45 PM PDT

    •  yes!!! they expected the reporters to stay quiet (5+ / 0-)

      i think Bush's comments were something like:

      "there's a lot of 'senior administration officials' in my administration, and y'all [reporters] do a great job of keeping your sources secret (hint hint, wink wink)"

      they expected the reporters to stay quiet - at least until the 2004 elections. which they did

      •  yes...thank god..I am not going crazy. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lizah, AnonymousArmy, kraant, Kira April

        why aren't people talking about this. This is the biggest fucking clue out there that this was a cover up by Bush and his people. They were all involved in a conspiracy to discredit Wilson and out Plame and distroy their careers and family. We must push this.

        "The Truth is far more powerful than any weapon of mass destruction." -Gandhi

        by Chamonix on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:47:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Found the quote (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pb, Chamonix, lizah, KenBee, Kira April

        From October 7, 2003

        Randy, you tell me, how many sources have you had that's leaked information that you've exposed or have been exposed? Probably none. I mean this town is a -- is a town full of people who like to leak information. And I don't know if we're going to find out the senior administration official. Now, this is a large administration, and there's a lot of senior officials. I don't have any idea. I'd like to. I want to know the truth. That's why I've instructed this staff of mine to cooperate fully with the investigators -- full disclosure, everything we know the investigators will find out. I have no idea whether we'll find out who the leaker is -- partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers. But we'll find out.

        •  Thank you so much for this.. (0+ / 0-)

          It has been bugging me since the Libby indictment. I knew, Mr. Arrogant Smartass came right out and said something like that. THese people have no shame. Have others written about this Bush quote? I am hoping everyone remembers these words..and this was when everything was behind the Firewall of the Ashcroft Justice Dept...Know we know why Gonsales is heading up Justice and the Chimp tried to get his personal assistant on the SCOTUS. Whatta Loser. Remember...The coverup is almost always worse than the crime. I want to use this Bush quote as my Tag but it is to long. Thanks again.  

          "The Truth is far more powerful than any weapon of mass destruction." -Gandhi

          by Chamonix on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 09:02:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  d bad, I have suspected the email a plant since (0+ / 0-)

        first hearing about it but I remember it as being introduced before the Vivica appearance so I would have picked that as an option.

        Doesn't seem that the email fits well into the facts.


        I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

        by PaintyKat on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:16:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  yes, that sounds familiar (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Subterranean, Chamonix, kraant

      The shrug of the shoulder. The dumb-ass, condescending tone of voice.

      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." – H.L. Mencken

      by subtropolis on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:07:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  smoking fun (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ignorant bystander, kraant

    that typo just about sums this up.

    Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive …

    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." – H.L. Mencken

    by subtropolis on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:00:52 AM PDT

  •  you get a gold star (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


    Let your conscience be your guide.

    by Jiminy Cricket on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:37:02 AM PDT

  •  stash of 250 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    hopefully we'll learn more about that stash soon - it certainly doesn't look like Fitz or the GJ is confused about the emails

    I want my real president - Al Gore!

    by teresab on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:45:28 AM PDT

    •  Huh huh you said stash. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ybruti, KenBee

      Seriously, emails at the White House simply can't get "misplaced."  The retention system they use there has so many redundant levels (every incoming and outgoing email is simultaneously timestamped and permanently archived at multiple locations in multiple independent systems) that even attempting to modify records leaves all sorts of telltale traces.  So if somebody really WAS trying to "plant" it, they're even bigger idiots than I thought, or just don't give a damn if they get caught.

      I know, it sounds kinda weird and big-brotherish, but most big corporations have similar retention systems.  (I work at Microsoft, who recently settled a suit for $60 mil out of court, in no small part because it appeared that a large chunk of relevant email exchanges had conveniently gone walkabout from the retention system.)

      I seem to remember the one in the WH was installed at least partly in response to the whole Reagan/Bush Iran-Contra shenanigans, to prevent a future President from being able to claim "I don't remember".  Of course, Slick Willie got the last laugh on them -- he personally sent only 2 emails on the WH system: one in 1993 to establish his account, and one in 2001 to terminate it.

      "I hear the voices" -- George Walker "Son Of Sam" Bush
      Darcy Burner for WA-08

      by FaithAndReason on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 02:02:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If you guys can figure it out, that's cool. (0+ / 0-)

    I trust Fitzgerald will.

    I would have voted for another option in the poll:

    I dunno. My head hurts just trying to think about it.

  •  What the email does do (0+ / 0-)

    It proves that the conversation between Rove and Cooper took place, and it gives us the time of the conversation.

    Fitz can get the contents of the Rove/Cooper conversation from Cooper's notes.  The GJ will believe a "reporter's" notes over Rove's bullshit, I suspect.  

    If this wasn't a top republican White House official, he would already be doing time in Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass Prison.  It will be interesting to see if Fitz can make anything stick to these slippery characters.

    "Birds...scream at the top of their lungs every morning at daybreak to warn us all of the truth...but sadly we don't speak bird." ~Kurt Cobain, Journals

    by Subterranean on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 02:34:25 AM PDT

  •  here's a tinfoil hat theory I used before (4+ / 0-)

    the following theory is based upon the following clues:

    The WHIG knew about the threat posed by Wilson on March 8th

    scooter and rover both claimed reporters told them about Valerie Plame, but all the reporters who knew about her learnd the info from scooter and rover

    Wilson was amking noise in an annonomous way before his bombshell editorial appeared, but he still caught the whitehouse with their pants down when he published under his own name in early July of 2003

    here's the tinfoil part:

    there was a plot developed in early March of 2003 to quietly discredit Joe Wilson. Since they knew that Wilson couldn't openly dispute their pro- bush line, the plot would take place thru the washington gossip circuit. The story that Wilson's wife was a NOC Agent who had arranged his boondoggle trip was supposed to be discretly spread over the DC cocktail circuit for a period of six months (these guys never thought they would have to dispute Wilson in the public news media). When Wilson published under his own name in July, scooter and rover panicked, and geeked the plot. they tried to work a six month conspiricy into six days.

    this theory explains why all the stories are the same, but the stories fail to reflect reality. had this plot been executed in it's scheduled time frame, everybody in washington would have learned to ignore Joe Wilson, and nobody would have known who actually outed Valerie Plame

    rover and scooter got nervous, and started shooting off toes

    too bad they hit a main artery by mistake

    adjust tinfoil accordingly

    the email was just another part of the plasible deniability portion of the plot

    •  this is not tinfoil. don't denigrate yourself (0+ / 0-)

      Wilson says the decision was made in March 2003, after he was on CNN about El Baradei's report declaring the documents a forgery.  

      I think you're right, they overreacted (at best, er least) and made mistakes.  I think the difference with this one is the CIA was a mess around that time, and this was an action against one of their own.  That pissed off the career people who played the game properly and mildly at first, taking statements, being low-key, and doing their thing.  But when Comey and others had the initial report in hand, they cornered Ashcroft and got him to recuse himself while handing Fitz longterm authority to uncover the truth.  Remember that the White House was first informed of this at Comey's press conference on Dec. 30--Ashcroft had not previously informed them.

      They thought they were pulling all the strings but they overstepped and are methodically getting busted.  The trap from those initial interviews was sprung, they thought they could just breeze through it and wash it away and so lied their asses off with denials.

    •  do a diary on this! (0+ / 0-)

      it's right on.  it fitz Rove's M.O. too.

      Meet the New Pharisees, same as the Old Pharisees.

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 07:45:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No tin foil, just more crime (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ignorant bystander

    Fact is, there's more to this story than meets the eye by far.
    First off, Plame's 'company' she 'worked' for was part of an investigation into Iranian nuke capability and Saudi oil productivity. Kind of crucial, huh?

    Second, the "war on the CIA". Over at the righty pundit columns, you'll find lately there's been that theme, you know, good guy W. is trying to clean up the CIA of bad guys who don't want tyrannical one party bossy and stupid rule. This is related to that, outing someone as an example of what can happen to someone who's even related to someone not going along with the Retardican Revolution.

    And I'm sure there's even more to this that we don't know about.

    Ok this part might be a bit tinfoil, but it's reasonable, bear with me:
    This really got the old CIA, Defense Dept. and probably Wall St. establishment folks really ticked off, and that's how we got Fitzgerald looking into it. We have treason here, folks, and it's all part of the coup.


  •  Ding! (0+ / 0-)

    "It WAS reported that Rove spent time the other day answering unexpected questions regarding evidence discovered since his last grand jury appearance......"

    BushCo Policy... If you aren't outraged, you haven't been paying attention. -3.25 -2.26

    by Habanero on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:12:49 AM PDT

  •  Well, if it is a plant, (0+ / 0-)

    then I suspect that Fitz knows about it.

    I remember learning here that Fitz knew the entire story just a couple of weeks into his investigation.  The rest of his time has been spent gathering evidence and catching a bunch of neoKKKon f**ks in a whole heap of lies.

    I hope it IS a plant, which will make KKKarl's offenses even MORE aggregious.  Maybe then he'll get busted with treason, or obstruction of justice, or something with a weightier sentence than just plain perjury.  Of course, the way KKKarl is such a chronic liar, he'll probably be indicted with dozens of perjery counts!  haha, that would be funny too.

    But I want him to pay with the rest of his life behind bars, without parole or pardon...He needs to be off the streets and far far far away from our political environment!

    Of course, the same goes for georgie boy and dickless cheney too.  ;-)

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