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Iowa Liberal cross-post... Joseph Biden says "Hey, maybe we should divide Iraq?" and David Broder says "Wow, now that's an idea!"

Neither of them take Chomsky seriously, who said in the beginning that were democracy ever actually our goal in Iraq, a split-up would be almost certain. However, he also warned state planners would never let that happen.


I presume the Bush PR team will want to put into place some kind of formal democracy, as long as it has no substance. But it's hard to imagine that they would allow a real voice to the Shi'ite majority, which is likely to join the rest of the region in trying to establish closer relations with Iran, the last thing the Bushites want. Or that they would allow a real voice to the next largest component of the population, the Kurds, who are likely to seek some kind of autonomy within a federal structure that would be anathema to Turkey, a major base for US power in the region.

Naturally, predicting the future (which Chomsky is fucking ace at doing, like most pre-war critics he looks psychic now) is a fuzzy art. US planners, of course, really really really don't want that to happen. The question is if they have any choice about it. I knew before the war that keeping Iraq whole afterwards was a fool's dream.  Biden and Broder cannot help clinging, but faintly recognize Fate's final verdict:


There are also risks, which Biden acknowledges, in such an approach. The central government might be too weak to fend off external threats. Regional autonomy could lead to permanent division of the country.

There's no "could" about it, but since we'll never outright declare that Iraq must become three separate nations permanently, this is likely the only way we're able to let the inevitable manifest itself (and is unlikely to happen at all if Bush is allowed to keep steering this war). Then we can say "Oops, we didn't mean for that to happen! If those Shias get too chummy with Iran we'll have to take measures!"

I'm glad that some Democrats and establishment types, always thinking in molasses but quicker than in Vietnam, are finally moving towards recognizing what's going on in Iraq. And I'm disgusted that those who have been right all this time have to listen to these Neo-Columbuses hooting about how they just discovered America.

Originally posted to nitrate21 on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:19 PM PDT.


Will Iraq split into three countries?

66%6 votes
33%3 votes

| 9 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  did you actually hear Biden (0+ / 0-)

    or just someones take on it?  If you weren't watching his speech yesterday you can read it at thomas.loc  Just get to it before 5pm

    there is no tommorow. there is only today and hope.

    by my foot itches on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:44:40 PM PDT

    •  Nope. Why? (0+ / 0-)

      I read the news article I linked to...

      What did Biden have to say that would change what I wrote?  It would be helpful if you could offer a hint...

      by nitrate21 on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:54:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

        •  Quite content to do so (0+ / 0-)

          When I get home, I'll get on top of it, but again...the point?  I'm hoping to do this to gain something that the article didn't offer...

          And that neither of you are offering...


          The point?

          by nitrate21 on Thu May 04, 2006 at 01:19:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  When you read ALL the actual words... (0+ / 0-)

            that someone has uttered, you have the chance to decide what to think about those words, rather than relying on what someone else has decided you should think about those words.  You also have the chance to see all of the words in the context intended by the speaker, not just those words that someone else has chosen to highlight.

            faith is no substitute for empirical evidence

            by Rudyard on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:00:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ah, thanks, a lecture instead of info... (0+ / 0-)

              I was hoping somebody had a point to contribute...instead I get a bunch of sermonizing.

              I sure wish I had the time to listen to every single speech reported on in the media, but I'm glad you folks do.  In the meantime, unless one of you has a meaningful point to offer as to something Biden said that renders my comments invalid, kindly place the lectures in your rectal cavities.

              And if anybody has a link that works, let me know!


              by nitrate21 on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:43:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  goddamn it (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                When will you get that first hand knowledge is always better than the second hand knowledge, however well intentioned, that's passed on to you?

                Remember the game elementary school? Some starts a rumor and it gets whispered to get kid who passes it on?

                At the end what was the inevitable result?

                It never remotely sounded like the original!

                Much of the political world refuses to read, listen or attend functions personally to hear their themselves the words said.

                That's why I've started the new site Political Interviews where no interview is edited and all are available in their original. If I find Biden's that important I'll post it too.

                Not meant to be a lecture...just some of us are drawing a line and it, listen to it for yourself and see then what your reaction may be.

                I'm going to listen, if possible, for myself right now as I've always advocated a partition of the artifically created Iraq with the additional creation of a UN protectorate of the oil fields.

                •  Damn I didn't realize it was an op-ed piece (0+ / 0-)

                  I was hoping it was a statement in committee that would be recorded.

                  I'll call his office tomorrow and see if they'll give this small time blogger an recorded interview on the topic.

                •  Oh, you're promoting yourself. (0+ / 0-)

                  But you still felt like you had to lecture me some more.  

                  And then below you finally notice that the article referenced his online op-ed.  I was trying to figure out what goddamn speech I was supposed to be listening to, and trying to tolerate some idiot lecturing me as if I didn't already fucking know what he was telling me, all because I hoped that SOMEBODY, ANYBODY had a point to make about Biden's thoughts that would affect what I wrote in the slightest.

                  Nobody has offered that yet.  Thanks for all the fucking hot air, fellas.


                  by nitrate21 on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:11:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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