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Personally I am tired of the amount of fanatical raving by the red staters who run the government lock, stock and smoking gun barrel about their ideological jihad to drag the country back to the days prior to civil rights advances to a time where the `colored folks' knew their place, drank from their own water fountains, sat in the back of the bus, did not dare to defile the decent white folk with their presence in dining establishments, any `uppity niggers' who happened to complain would be dealt with in short order, likely finding themselves tortured, lynched or otherwise murdered for their `transgressions' against the established white supremacist ruling order.

In addition to desegregation and civil rights another burr in the south's ass was the hated feminist revolution/women's rights movement that dared to offer up the heretical concept of equal rights for women, this was a slap in the face to southern men whose strong daddy sense of self was living in a world where the definition of a `good woman' who shut the fuck up, knew her place, cooked dinner, laid on her back and was content to live a life of subservience and deference to the lord of the `plantation', or to otherwise be barefoot, pregnant and slavishly obedient. Given the regressive hostility of the south and the willingness of the Republican party to capitalize on southern desire to drag the country back to the good ole' days of Jim Crow, religious intolerance and a gross renunciation of intellectualism is only too deserving of a descriptive term from days past be resurrected for these folk and that word is PECKERWOOD

A peckerwood is a rural white southerner, usually poor, undereducated or otherwise ignorant and bigoted, the term gained popularity in the deep south during the early twentieth century and was meant to be derogatory. It is a reversal of the name of the red bellied woodpecker which had a patch of red on the back of it's head and neck, therefore a peckerwood is a redneck, terms that describe similar groups of people are trailer trash or white trash but neither of those have the same effect or ring to them as peckerwood does.

The Peckerwood era in the south were good ole days for southerners, or at least as good as it got after Lee's crying uncle and throwing in the towel to the hated Yankees. They still had the Negroes to kick around and could freely exercise their domestic version of Apartheid, (`least till dose meddlin' hippie college boys began stickin' dere noses where day didn't belong and stirrin' up a ruckus) until that long avowed day when the south would rise again, and rising is just what it is doing in 2005 with the help of Jesus and the GOP (Good Ole Peckerwoods). Karl Rove and the party operatives threw logs into the furnace of the hate machine that was Nixon's Southern Strategy, utilizing focus group tested PR campaigns, insane fundamentalist clerics and faux Texans bearing gifts of nationalist renewal through `patriotism' while stoking the fires of red staters' indignation, vengeful and seeking to repudiate the last forty years and poised to reap their revenge at last, the last vestiges of American democracy soon to fall to the haters of the red states and the oligarchy that laughingly pushes all of the right buttons on these rubes, increasingly amused at just how effortless and easy that it all is.

These are Americans who believe that shopping at Wal Mart is patriotic, far too ignorant to realize that by doing so that they are contributing to their own entrapment in the underclass as well as to assist in building China into a world economic powerhouse and a nation that holds the majority of the paper on this debtor nation. Willful ignorance is both honorable and symbolic to southern culture, what better way to renounce the despised intellectualism of the liberal elite? Nowhere is the Peckerwood a more dominant indigenous species than in God's own dumping ground for mass ignorance, racism, incestuous relationships, general intolerance, filth and outright pure stone age bigotry than in the state of Alabama, home of Judge Roy Moore and his giant stone paean to the very idolatry that it specifically condemns. Alabama has been in the news for several reasons recently, it is the home state of famed missing teen Natalee Holloway whose disappearance mesmerized the MSM last summer, it is the home of the aforementioned Roy's Rock, Toyota last year decided to locate a plant in Canada rather than the KKK state mainly because the inhabitants (aka illiterate peckerwoods) were too fucking stupid to operate high tech machinery. Toyota finally threw up their hands and made a run for the northern border after even pictorial training aids were beyond the local yokels ability to comprehend and recent data showed that Alabama was the fastest growing state in America....regarding waistlines that is! A 2005 study of CDC data found that a whopping 27.7 percent of the population (well above the national average) the Yellowhammer state gives a new meaning to crimson tide: the gallons of ketchup that the lard ass peckerwoods pour over their buckets of deep-fried food. Not surprisingly fellow peckerwood meccas Mississippi, Louisiana and Tennessee were among the runners up as national repositories for the obese.

This is the reality of the situation: deep south bible belt whites, mainly poor, increasingly hostile and always Republican now own a disproportionate amount of political power in America and they are determined to wield it. They will use it in order to drag the country backwards through time to a dark place in our history that had apparently been buried in the past. They seek to return to the days where the American south was mired in the smothering blackness of a festering, hateful and corrupt parallel universe to the more progressive states above the Mason Dixon Line, trapped like a dinosaur in a tar pit. It was only through the courage of the civil rights movement and federal anti discrimination laws that the roaring beast was able to be semi-tamed to a point where it would be able to interact with decent folk. With the ascendancy of a red state evangelical movement the south is back for blood revenge, thundering a bastardized version of Christianity from pulpits, preaching hatred and bigotry and the end times and drawing the masses of the disenfranchised into ever growing mega churches and mobilizing armies of activists. The southern regressive fervor has infiltrated the United States government itself, controlling both houses of congress, the executive branch and now is on the precipice of seizing control of the supreme court as well, engulfing all of our democratic institutions like a malignant strain of alien kudzu.

The red staters have risen to power by harnessing the resentment resulting from a nearly century and a half long litany of grievances with the northern, godless, liberal, elitist damned yankee establishment or more aptly put, anybody who does not think as they do. This long running rage at northern society and progressive government has simmered like blackstrap molasses ever since the day that the signature of the hallowed General Robert E. Lee was affixed to the document of surrender at Appomattox and the confederacy was no more. This was a monumentally grievous injury to southern pride-far more sorrowful to many than even the cost in blood paid by loved ones on the battlefields of the Civil War. There was a bitterness that stuck in the craws of southerners, being passed down through subsequent generations as surely as Israeli or Palestinian hatred is taught from the earliest of ages. The Confederate battle flag became a revered symbol to the red staters.

This flag is flown by the descendents of the very cannon fodder mobilized on lies and racial hatred to fight a treasonous war against the legitimate government of their own country. Today it flies from suvs, trucks, cars, homes and statehouses in Dixie. It is emblazoned on hats and t-shirts, displayed by country music stars as they warble their jingoist ballads to adoring masses, it is a commonplace sight at the gross orgies of noise and intoxication that are NASCAR events or the rural fairs and carnivals that serve as a gathering place for those who are unable to afford the races due to lost jobs, government services and educational opportunities but who nonetheless are holding their own in the war on Roe v. Wade and Darwin. If you can't get to Talladega you can always haul your fat ass brood around for dollar rides on the tilt a whirl, cheap corn dogs, elephant ears, cotton candy and fried okra. There are ring throwing and shooting games but nothing that would tax the mental retardation that home schooling induces on your little progenies who will one day grow up to be employees of the peckerwood emporium: Walmart. The titanic struggle against progressive society ensures that the ability to elect politicians who will advocate policies to provide well paying jobs, affordable housing, health insurance and quality schooling is sacrificed to empower only those seeking to transform America into a theocratic police state.

They vote to elect manipulative free market ideologues who build the party through their ability to utilize those enthralled by the modern hellfire spewing tent preachers as pawns with which to wage economic terrorism, threatening boycotts to companies and institutions seeking to rise above intolerance and bigotry and in turn force their compliance through targeted boycotts. They use their churches as platforms from which to wage a political war, the most powerful members of both the House and Senate recently appeared at coordinated rallies that targeted members of the judicial system and denounced as traitors those who did not march in ideological lockstep, these so called Justice Sundays are used to mobilize resentment and overthrow the existing order as surely as Hitler's rallies ever were, only now with the advent of satellite technology the ugly bacchanals don't have to draw mass attention and fearful comparison that may bring much needed scrutiny by being visible, there is no need to march through the streets waving flaming torches, hoisting standards and symbols and chanting fealty to the leader when it can all be conveniently transmitted into millions of living rooms across the land or distributed on DVD. They are more concerned with using religion as a bludgeon, a crude and brutal instrument which those who wield that club can utilize its intense potency to lay waste to the wall of separation of church and state. They not only want to renounce the liberals of the north but to destroy the very society that was borne out of the humiliation of defeat and reconstruction.

While the peckerwood peasants constitute the sheer numbers of the base that keeps the GOP in power there are of course the party power brokers these are the country club Republicans, the free market fanatics, the rich and richer who are only concerned with increasing their wealth at the expense of others entrapped in the dregs of the lower social classes. They eat cake and leave few crumbs for those left to scavenge at their feet. These are the speculators, the investors, the captains of industry and their lieutenants, the elitist upper class. These Republicans vote their economic interests, their patriotism is their personal bottom line, these are the outsourcers of American jobs for increased profit, the downsizers, the privatizers, the tax cheats determined to use all means at their disposal to weasel out of paying for the very infrastructure that they utilize to reap their gains.

Their wealth maximization schemes and determination to roll back the hated New Deal of the even more hated FDR in favor of the oxymoronic free market of their beloved father figure, Ronald Reagan are laying waste to the very fabric from which the American Dream has been woven from, creating a permanent elitist class of robber barons and wealthy elites who are able to pass their massive wealth from generation to generation, it is a modern version of the Gilded Age, of mansions and tin shacks, of haves and have nots. Those who will never know the meaning of enough or fairness to all are sowing the seeds of their own eventual destruction by creating a permanent, resentful underclass. For now they are content to hide behind the walls of gated communities situated well away from the rabble. A rabble that they are locked into a symbiotic relationship with, a rabble whose increase in rage must be harnessed in order to maintain the political majority that will allow for them to maintain their wealth and stature but has its own designs for the future.

With their intentions to return America to the days of fire and brimstone raining down from pulpits, vowing eternal damnation to all who would seek to stray from the path that the church had deemed to that which was righteous, to the days of colored drinking fountains, seats at the back of the bus and segregated schools and restaurants, the days of burning crosses and back alley abortions.And George W. Bush, just as Jefferson Davis is only too willing to utilize the hatreds of others as means with which to further his own nefarious ends.

To the financial elites who tolerate these people so as to personally profit I offer one word of advice and that is beware.When you stoke the fires of hatred in others and nurture their ignorance so as to gain you are only empowering those who one day will become powerful enough to turn on you as well. The ignorance of the red state evangelical movement only ensures one thing, that on the day that your common enemy is neutralized and YOU become the next enemy there will be no reasoning with the hordes that will be laying siege to your gated communities

Originally posted to edencho on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 03:14 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Most excellent piece...... (0+ / 0-)

    long, well written and well worth the time to read.  You last paragraph is a humdinger and dead on!  I keep wondering when the owners of all the newly built mansions littering the countryside are going to decide that moats are new accessory they must have for their 'estates'.  
    Along with their 'panic rooms' that is.

    •  Now it's OUR turn to be bastards (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I am sick of all of the fecklessness and half measures....the only to engage hateful ideologies and fascism is to attack it head on. As the Italian resistance used to say during the 'good war' you don't debate fascists, you destroy them.

      The system has failed abysmally, it's time to take the fight to the enemy using their same tactics.

      Enough is Enough!

      •  So what, Eden, (8+ / 0-)

        am I the enemy now?  I'm a white Southern male.  Is this where you're going?  Choose your weapons, friend.

      •  Racebaiting and fearmongering? (5+ / 0-)
        That's what you'd like to resort to, in an effort to do what exactly, besides lose the south entirely in the next round of elections.
        •  lose them permanently? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          But, seriously, many are sick of the political power of the south. The current majority in places like Mississippi, Alabama, and Texas don't represent my values, and never will. How do you suggest I compromise? What liberty should I give up in order to placate the mob? How much inequality should I tolerate? How often should I fake belief in this make-believe angry sky wizard these fools worship in order to ensure my own safety?

          Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

          by Benito on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 11:50:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            phemme texxii
            You could always try secession and see how that goes for you.
            •  Would if we could. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ari Mistral, Cronesense

              Image and video hosting by TinyPic
              Regionalism in this country is alive and well.  "Cheerleaders" make lots of comments about why California, the south, the southwest are special and should get (fill in the blank)while Kansas, Michigan, Ohio, etc. are simply getting what they deserve, if anyone even remembers they exist.  There is a southern flavor that is distasteful.  Is it the entire south?  No, but enough to be stereotypically true.  

              ....although the future is unknown, it will not be unblogged. David D. Perlmutter

              by dkmich on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 03:11:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Conservatives pander to this southern pride crap (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                I saw a book by Glenn Beck called "Real America."  And he wasn't talking about where I was raised.  In New England.

                If the average citizen is guaranteed equal opportunity in the polling place, he must have equal opportunity in the market place - FDR

                by PaulVA on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 05:59:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Real America! Real Men! Real Patriots! (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PaulVA, pgm 01

                  They all equal real assholes.  I fell in love with Maine.  Was in Booth Bay, Bar Harbor and Monhegan Island.  I understand that we have cold and snow in our neck of the woods, but it helps to create a rugged beauty that is hard to touch.  

                  ....although the future is unknown, it will not be unblogged. David D. Perlmutter

                  by dkmich on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 07:07:08 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hmmm (0+ / 0-)

                    Smells like "regionalism" to me.

                    I'm glad you fell in love with someplace, but please don't criticize others who are enamoured of another place. Rugged beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. You might want to spend a little more time on discovering why others might like the South before you start judging a whole region of this country on the actions of a few.  

              •  What bigotry next? 'Hymie-Town'? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Blue Southerner

                It's unhelpful to make religious slurs into maps.  Many Christians--progressive or conservative or whatever--might rightly take offense at the flaunting of this map, just as many Jews were rightly offended by the Rev. Jesse Jackson's smear against NYC.  And Jesus seems to be as big a deal on the Northwest Side of Chicago.  There’s plenty of sexism and racism here too (though I wouldn’t claim it’s the fault of Jesus or Allah or any other deity).  Moreover, there’s more corruption than most places in the good ol’ USA (please send us some reform Democrats!).

              •  Dude.... (0+ / 0-)

                That joke was old about the day after the election.


                Let it go. We are not the enemy.

                And if you want to talk about distasteful, look at the image you posted.

      •  This is even more abysmal than the diary (5+ / 0-)

        I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you further. When you say the only way is to attack head on, do you mean that you want to attack with the maximum violence or that you want to attack with the maximum effectiveness?

        This is in fact the key question.

        Maximum effectiveness means doing what it takes to win, which means winning elections, which means talking to people you disagree with, creating ideas, forming communities, and nothing you've demonstrated in this rampage suggests you have the capacity for any of that.

        If this is about maximum violence, that really reveals that this isn't about your ideas of what's right or wrong but satisfying your taste for aggression. And unthinking aggression you evidently have in spades.

        Are you sure you don't belong on the other side?

        •  Peckerwoods (5+ / 0-)

          I don't think you can negoiate with people who believe that all their ignorance, and nastiness are 'values'and that they are ordained to do Gods work. Any culture that was based on slavery and still flies that flag, takes the bible literally, and mostly distrusts anyone who doesn't share their pig ignorant world view isn't someone your going to be able to convince to vote progressive. "doing what it takes to win" shouldn't include pandering to a cultural block that's hellbent on taking us back to the good ole days before the civil war. Peckerwoods are everywhere And have been encouraged by both parties because they are stupid and will drink the koolaide if you play to their cultural insanity.      

          •  Not pandering, talking (0+ / 0-)

            It is one thing to see oneself has having correct ideas. If we did not believe in our ability to access the truth through thought we would not be able to cross the street.

            It is one thing to establish a set of beliefs about morally correct conduct and ideas.

            It is another to say that because another set of humans do not subscribe to these ideas or beliefs, they are essentially subhuman, not worth talking to.

            If we go through the world expecting people to have beliefs they can justify through reason, we must be able to justify our own beliefs through reason to those who disagree with us. We must be able to state these disagreements coherently. And we must be prepared to be actually wrong occasionally.

            The Left on most of the issues facing the country is 100% right. But what we are seeing here is an absence of the humility and graciousness we will need in order to take back America and make things right again.

            •  Have you actually tried using reason... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              with "true believers?" What is your success rate? Do you think other people haven't tried a rational approach to those with apparently closed mind?

              The problem is that using a logical, reasonable approach with people who depend almost completely on emotion and dogma is an exercise in futility.

              Doesn't matter where they live. This disease has spread north like wildfire. All we can do is appeal to people with the capacity to think at least half-way reasonably and vote out the power structure that relies on and supports the true believers. This ain't about humility or graciousness. It's about our own ability to face reality.

              The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell

              by Psyche on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:19:24 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The options are: (0+ / 0-)

                Granted, more often than not you will not convert people from unreasonable beliefs through reason. Somehow, they got those unreasonable beliefs somehow or other through means that are stronger than your ability to undo them.

                But the approach edencho is articulating is guaranteed 100% failure to convince anyone.

      •  To be truthful (4+ / 0-)

        the questions hovering in my mind as I read your rant are

        1 - where do you live now?

        2 - where did you grow up?

        3 - I really hope that some of the southerners I know don't see this diatribe.  They're always telling me that southerners have to put up with stereotypical nonsense and in specific cases, I've tried to make the point that they were being overly sensitive about something that was said.  In this case, though, they'd be 100% right.

        I have to admit that I expected to see some specific statistics or something that would back up your premise.  Instead we got a page full of generalizations with no real supporting evidence and a lot of rage.  Not the best way of persuading anyone of the validity of your statements.

        •  There are execptions (0+ / 0-)

          Yes, there are certainly lots of exceptions to the generalization. However, the South voted overwhelmingly for Bush in both 2000 and 2004. Not all Southerners did, but enough did. And they did so, apparently, for reasons of God, guns and gays and also because of the "war on terror".

          •  So that makes it okay (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cletus from Canuckistan

            to post a hate-filled diatribe guaranteed to offend any southerner?   NOT

            •  I don't hate the South, just the right wing (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              I think that the diarist was trying to get a handle on how race, social class, and (regional) culture intertwine over a period of time. When this happens, particular beliefs and attitudes occur. And in this case, a predominant attitude on the part of significant numbers of white Southerners, of both upper and lower class locations is one which is self-defined in opposition to (relatively more progressive) non-Southern U.S. society. When, for example, Southerners talk of "Southern pride,"  when they uphold the Confederate flag as a symbol of this, they are engaged in acts of separatism, (not unlike the use of the word "nigger" by some Blacks as itself an act of separatism).

              This separatism has been wedded to some very reactionary politics. And a proof of this is to look at who is in power in Washington. Can you name for me a single white progressive, elected to federal office, from the South within the past 10-20 years? I don't think I can. Yet I can name several who would seek to ban gay marriage. Who would seek to withdraw from the U.N. Who believe that Iraq attacked us on 911. Who believe antiwar activists are traitors. Who believe in endless tax cuts and endless deficits. Etc. etc.

              I certainly don't hate the South and I don't like stereotypes, although I think that most stereotypes contain a grain of truth (they are not the whole truth, just a grain). I grew up in New Jersey and had to listen for my whole life to witless assholes thinking they were funny while telling NJ jokes; eventually, I learned just to shrug my shoulders and to not be so easily offended. Sometimes the jokes were actually funny, and made me laugh. And sometimes we in NJ made our own NJ jokes, and these were usually very funny.

              I don't hate the South, but I really hate the right wing, particularly the right wing leadership of the Republican Party. I am sick of their arrogance, their stupidity, and their abuse of power. I would hope that Southern white progressives would channel a lot more energy into changing the political status quo in their neck of the woods than they would in worrying about stereotypes or in wallowing in feelings of being misunderstood. Get up and go do something about changing the political culture of the South, and then the stereotypes are very likely to go away.

              •  Rep Brad Miller - NC13 (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cletus from Canuckistan

                and here's his website for a start. Think he was at yearlykos too if I recall correctly.

                Then there's all these Dems from various places.  

                Rep. Robert (Bud) Cramer (D-AL-5th)
                Rep. Artur Davis (D-AL-7th)

                Rep. Berry, Marion (D-AR-1st)  
                Sen. Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)  
                Sen. Pryor, Mark (D-AR)  
                Rep. Ross, Mike (D-AR-4th)  
                Rep. Snyder, Vic (D-AR-2nd)  

                Rep. Boyd, F. Allen (D-FL-2nd)  
                Rep. Brown, Corrine (D-FL-3rd)  
                Rep. Davis, Jim (D-FL-11th)  
                Rep. Hastings, Alcee (D-FL-23rd)  
                Rep. Meek, Kendrick (D-FL-17th)  
                Sen. Nelson, Bill (D-FL)  
                Rep. Wasserman Schultz, Debbie (D-FL-20th)  
                Rep. Wexler, Robert (D-FL-19th)  

                Rep. Barrow, John (D-GA-12th)  
                Rep. Bishop, Sanford (D-GA-2nd)  
                Rep. Lewis, John (D-GA-5th)  
                Rep. Marshall, Jim (D-GA-3rd)  
                Rep. McKinney, Cynthia (D-GA-4th)  
                Rep. Scott, David (D-GA-13th)  

                Rep. Chandler, Ben (D-KY-6th)  

                Rep. Jefferson, William (D-LA-2nd)  
                Sen. Landrieu, Mary (D-LA)  
                Rep. Melancon, Charlie (D-LA-3rd)  

                Rep. Taylor, Gene (D-MS-4th)  
                Rep. Thompson, Bennie (D-MS-2nd)  

                Rep. Butterfield, G.K. (D-NC-1st)  
                Rep. Etheridge, Bob (D-NC-2nd)  
                Rep. McIntyre, Mike (D-NC-7th)  
                Rep. Miller, Brad (D-NC-13th)  
                Rep. Price, David (D-NC-4th)  
                Rep. Watt, Melvin (D-NC-12th)  

                Rep. Boren, Dan (D-OK-2nd)

                Rep. Clyburn, James (D-SC-6th)  
                Rep. Spratt, John (D-SC-5th)  

                Rep. Cooper, Jim (D-TN-5th)  
                Rep. Davis, Lincoln (D-TN-4th)  
                Rep. Ford, Harold (D-TN-9th)  
                Rep. Gordon, Bart (D-TN-6th)  
                Rep. Tanner, John (D-TN-8th)  

                Rep. Boucher, Rick (D-VA-9th)  
                Rep. Moran, James (D-VA-8th)  
                Rep. Scott, Bobby (D-VA-3rd)  

                Sen. Byrd, Robert (D-WV)  
                Rep. Mollohan, Alan (D-WV-1st)  
                Rep. Rahall, Nick (D-WV-3rd)  
                Sen. Rockefeller, John (D-WV)  

                Now I will grant you that not every name on there is a model progressive candidate and I didn't visit every website to verify race or ethnicity.  But I'm sure that they'd be very surprised to find out that not one amongst their group is considered a white progressive.

                And I didn't even go back 20 years in history or I'm sure that there would be more names on the list.

                •  I'm from Arkansas (0+ / 0-)

                  I have to say that Sen. Lincoln is bordering on being a DINO. For instance, she is for getting rid of the estate tax.

                  Sen. Pryor seems to be a bit better, but still votes with the republicans more often than I would like.

                  Barry and Snyder are pretty good.

                  But, Arkansas is a bit different from the other southern states, more purple. There are a lot of very independant people here that don't go for the religious dogma.

                •  Alot of those Dems. (0+ / 0-)

                  are African-Americans.Wexler and Wasserman-Schultz are South Florida Jewish liberals and South Florida is more Brooklyn with palm trees than it is the South.White Protestant Dems in the South are an endangered species. Landrieu and Melancon are Catholics.

                  •  the prior poster (0+ / 0-)

                    specified white progressive southerner.  He did not specify religion.  Is there some reason that you felt it necessary to list the religions as well?

                    And what the hell else is Brad Miller but the example that at least one white progressive rep from the South has been elected?  He said he couldn't think of any.  I was just trying to jog his memory.

                    And for all of those on this thread who have expressed hatred of southerners and southern culture, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

                    We don't need that kind of language in this community.

              •  come on, seriously (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lilorphant, retired

                There is so much blanket hatred for the south among the liberal base, and its something that, frankly, I'm ashamed of.

                Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Florida, Tennessee - no, not a list of confederate states - states that voted for Clinton in either 1992 or 1996 (in 96, Florida and Georgia switched places).

                The south DOES vote for progressives, and it's only been ten years.  The culture doesn't change that much in ten years.

                Frankly, this is the same old high-minded, ivory-tower, Yankee-Doodle bullshit that liberals have been saying for years, and frankly, as I said, I'm ashamed to be a liberal from the North when I hear this crap.

                You want to see some racism.  I mean, REAL racism?  The kind that makes cops beat up black people or makes gangs fight or makes the white person in the pickup truck taunt the black person walking down the street?  Why not walk around St. Louis or LA or New York or Detroit or Chicago for about 10 minutes, you'll see some.  That, or you'll stumble upon a rape.  Hatred against blacks and women is far from exclusive to the South, and to have this attitude that the Northern side of the country is perfect and we've never heard of racism is pure crap.  When you fail to see or understand a problem, it's never going to be fixed, no matter what you do.

                You can complain about the KKK all day, and seeing the white robes is disgusting to me too, but I think you can't talk about the KKK and fail to mention the LAPD.

                and that Toyota bit?  Come on - there's no need to be such a pure jerk like that.  And that's what that comment was - it was for the purpose of saying, "look at these folks, I'm smart, they're so fucking stupid!"  Come on, dude.

                I have an idea for this blogger - why don't you actually VISIT the south sometime?  If you can actually find the vast majority that you speak of - of these "peckerwoods" (I think most of them are actually hiding in the woods, so good luck), and walk down the streets of Montgomery and see if you can count twenty people without shoes wearing straw hats, or see any lynchings, I'll give you a dollar.  

                We have a lot of real nasty racial issues in this country, and the South is not innocent of them, but pretending that the Maine or California or Illinois are completely innocent is a gigantic folly, and one that will have to be paid for with 50 more years of racial tension.

              •  I hate the South (2+ / 1-)
                Recommended by:
                TiaRachel, Geronimo
                Hidden by:
                Hate is an emotion I try to avoid, but in this case it is richly deserved. But let's be clear: "The South" is a state of mind, not a region. "The South" is the dark side of America and it will always be with us, to some extent - from coast to coast.

                So when I say fuck the South, I really mean it. Their so-called "culture" (I use that term loosely) has been poisoning us since the beginning. All you Southerners who don't like the association of the South with racism, cruelty and ignorance are in denial about your own history. Those things define what it is to be "Southern," by your own twisted standards.

                I say again - fuck the South. And if you're a "southerner," I say fuck you too. Deal with it.

                •  Good, then fuck you too. (0+ / 0-)

                  So you have no clue what shapes the South, why the competition for resources is one of extremism, why economic development patterns defy every attempt by a clueless Washington program, why resentment against North, or Northerly, or otherly translates into racism or protectionism.  How clannism is translated by northernors into INCEST, rather than a natural tendency for everyone in a fifty mnile radious to be somehow distantly related to each other.

                  So the enlightened of Kos seem to think it's okay to resort to stereotypes to what end?  Attract voters, perhaps?  Whatever.  And within your disregard, is the same racism that defines your ugly mind.  Fuck the South and every black voter, emerging latino community, progressive, coastal, laborer, and gay voter that lives there.  

                •  Region (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  Sorry man, the South is a region, not a state of mind. South is a direction. The Southeast would more accurately describe the region of the country under discussion in this conversation, but it doesn't quite chew on the tongue in the same way. I mean, if we were talking about the true geographic South of the country we would include a few other states that I'm sure you can figure out the names of. And those parts of the country share many common traits and values of the Southeastern part of the country, natch.

                  When people say "The South" they are talking about the southeast part of the US. That is a given. Don't change the subject with your hate, please.

                  Seriously, just so you have it straight. When people are talking about "The South" they are talking about the Southeastern states of the US. When you talk about the South being a state of mind you are stereotyping every resident of that region. That is not good for the Democratic Party. Please refrain from doing so. And return your tray to the optimum position.


          •  Please don't patronize the exceptions. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            retired, pgm 01

            It's like saying "my best friend is black".  Approximately fourty pecent of Mississippi voted for Kerry, that is about the same percentage as upstate NY, so I cannot see how this diatribe can possibly add in any positive sense to the political discourse.

            The South is rural, and rural has a whole other set of glasses on.  When you want to talk real solutions, scratch through the glass, don't seek answers in stereotypes, thats what Republicans are for.

            •  Of the 40% in Mississippi (0+ / 0-)

              how many were whites? Most of the Kerry votes there came from Afro-Am. people.

              •  Is there a point? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                I mean you have a lot more black Democrats in the South, I'll give you that, but I was out there on election day, with a Kerry sign, in a white community, and got plenty of beeps of support from whites.

                The black community is as much a part of the South as the white community, but the Mississippi Democratic party is multi-racial, perhaps fifty/fifty among the activists, that is those that are visible and active in the party.

                The Republican party has convinced many Chistian voters that they are the "Christian" brand, so where a majority of voters are rural, Southern Baptist, (the black Southern Baptists are being courted now with faith-based funding) obviously the rural disconnect is most pronounced in the South.

            •  Try a little history (0+ / 0-)

              New York State has traditionally been a Republican state going back to Lincoln and the anti-slavery movement. That Republican leaning has remained strong outside of the urban areas of the state, family loyalty, town loyalty etc. It is not based on fear and racism. Mississippi and the rest of the South were solid Democrat (the party of slavery pre-civil war and bigotry post civil war) until the progressivism of Roosevelt, the horrifying nomination of Catholics (Smith and Kennedy) began to shake them loose and made them ripe for the Republican Southern strategy of Nixon. Now Southern whites are solid Republican (the new party of bigotry). Bottom line is that you can't discount the down state and urban New Yorkers who have made that state a solid blue one, while Trent Lott Mississippi is solid red.

              •  Historically accurate-however- (0+ / 0-)

                The Republican party in New York State panders to the closet racists in the more rural areas, ask any correction officer.  I have homes in both the Lake George (Adirondack) area and the MS Gulf Coast and spend time in both areas, now for twenty years.  The people upstate who should be Democratic are Republicans who watch Foxnews, listen to Limbaugh, and reduce their discourse to the lowest common denominator.  The old Republican party is dead, even in New York backwaters.  

                Bigotry is an easy word to descibe the Southern question, but it does not complete the picture.  Are there racists?  Of course, but I have heard people all over slur racist remarks, it doesn't tell the entire picture. (I tend to think of racism as a sympton of deeper underlying tensions.)  There are also divisions among whites, white trash, rednecks, and "good ole boys".  The tradition of heirarchy in the South extends from the Monarchal allegiances that defined culture prior to the civil war.  Those traditions most closely held, were even more cherished after the war.  

                Many Dixiecrats were not particularly racist, (of course I suppose we can admit that racists were successful in using the Democratic party to futher their racist agenda) the Democatic party appealed to those too, but the idea of a majority vote rule, rather than a centralized power (such as the love of centralized authority we see in the Republican party today)  The Democatic Party became the party of the people, as it should stay.

                Anyone who has spent any time in the South would tell you it is a much more complex society than you can imagine.  

                •  Dixiecrats (0+ / 0-)

                  Not sure what you mean by Dixiecrats, but historically they were the Southern Democrats who could not support Civil Rights legislation. While you may think of that as their principled adherence to States Rights, I don't see it as a stretch to think of racism being involved (given the nature of the legislation itself). Look, the diary written here goes way too far in giving the impression that all Southerners are bigots. I do not hold that view in the least (and I agree that the South is more complex than stereotypes allow)and indeed racism and bigotry is unfortunately endemic throughout the USA, blue and red. Today, if we support Democrats in the South we are hoping that they are not Dixiecrats, Bowl weevils or (God forbid!) Zell Millerites. But we cannot escape the fact the South is solidly red Republican in its national voting patterns. New York (even with some looney upstate racists and Limbaugh lovers-hardly the majority of NY Republicans)is in no way similar to the South in general or Mississippi in particular in its voting patterns and it is one whole state and that state is blue. To indicate otherwise is equivalent to saying that Georgia is a blue state because of the way in which Atlanta votes.  

                  •  I'm not disagreeing- (0+ / 0-)

                    The point I am trying to make-  is that in the South, the divisions among class spur racism.  The classism promotes the idea to poor whites that somehow, if black people get ahead, there is less for them.   I posit that chronic poverty perpetrated upon a significant portion of whites results in chronic racism, spread from the upper classes to the "common man".  This attitude can be seen across the spectrum in pockets of poverty-prone areas.

                    We see the same ideas and attitudes towards immigrants take hold, as if an economy cannot sustain all producers.  The lie that the elite permit on an on again is that those at the bottom are somehow going to eat up the resources that the lower-middle and middle work so hard to attain.

                    Why is it that those who benefit the most from the "surplus labor" are pefectly content time and again to allow racial fallicies to impede and pollute the economic landscape?  (Not permitting blacks to actually stay at the hotels they work at, get loans at the banks they make deposits to.)  Get at the crux of that, and you can tap into a world of difference.

    •  You're welcome to come down here (22+ / 0-)

      and see for yourself.  Mrs. Max and I will put you up for the week, feed you fine Southern cooking, jaw your ears off with entertainin' Southern yarnin', might even rustle up some kitchen whiskey.  And you won't hear a single racial or religious slur, see a Confederate flag on the premises, or find a pickup truck in the driveway.  If you want to meet the local equivalent of Larry the Cable Guy, I can find one for you easy enough -- but we'll have to go look, he's not in every trailer and shotgun shack in the neighborhood.

      •  Is this an open invitation? (0+ / 0-)

        Am I included, Black Max? Can I bring my South Carolina-raised husband, who was sure he was the only liberal in the state when he lived there?

        I'm too old to cope with the high-cholesterol type of Southern cooking, but you're near the coast so you probably do the shrimp-based variety that seems unbelievably 5-star to us Northerners. You and he can discuss proper barbecue for a few hours; he misses those conversations.

        Only thing is, don't call me a Yankee. That's a baseball team, or maybe people in New England. That always drives me nuts south of the Mason-Dixon.

    •  You know (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joy, splashy, Blue Southerner

      down here in the deep south, Y'ALL, there are plenty of Kossacks working their butts off to elect good ol' local boys like Larry Kissell, who just got his grassroots endorsement yesterday.

      And yeah, there are anti-intellectual buttheads here, but I grew up in Wisconsin and I can tell you that outside of Madison things are pretty conservative (in their own special northern way) and I can tell you that the liberal oasis of Champaign-Urbana, IL, is in a worse state of racial apartheid (c'mon, how many low income black people live south of University Ave, one?) than good ol' Charlotte NC.

      Liberals acknowledge reality and don't see things in black and white, I hear.

      "Fishin' Accomplished" -- George W. Bush

      by kismet on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 06:04:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Without snark (0+ / 0-)

      How would the article read if rather than "under eductated rural Males" it was "under educated urban males"?  One could imagine it could be written by a red site to demean the positions and support base of the Dems.

      Just an observation.


  •  I love it! (0+ / 0-)

    Great rant.  Says everything I'd love to say, but can't take the time to put it all coherently into paragraphs because I wouldn't know where to start, there's so much of it.  Go Baby!  Fight the good fight; I'm right there with ya.

    She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but she always made me liquer - Rev. Billy C. Wirtz

    by gatorcog on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 04:54:36 PM PDT

  •  Tear 'em a new one (0+ / 0-)

    I'd love to see Roy Moore impaled on one of the  stone tablets he so covets, but can't be bothered to obey.  That'd be cool.  Just sayin'

    She was only a moonshiner's daughter, but she always made me liquer - Rev. Billy C. Wirtz

    by gatorcog on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 04:58:31 PM PDT

  •  You're such a fire-eater, edencho (0+ / 0-)

    and it warms my heart.  Recommended and subscribed.  

  •  Wow! (0+ / 0-)

    This is the rant that's been floating in my head since I moved to Florida!  Not as eloquent as yours, Edencho, nowhere near it, but you've captured my thoughts.  There's so much truth in your rant, thank you for posting this.  It's going to be emailed to a few "peckerwoods" I know.  

  •  Recommended (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I am an old man and will not live to see the prophecies in this diary come true. But come true they will. The reason is greed. America is (or at least was) such a fabulously wealthy country that there is enough for every American. However, the oligarchs who have overthrown our Constitution and perpetrated a coup against our system of government will not stop until they have it all and our country is no more.

    The friend of my enemy is my enemy. Dump Chafee in '06.

    by jayatRI on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 06:03:50 PM PDT

  •  Hey, now (5+ / 0-)

    As a Hoosier i must object. We're the state that bears the indignity of being the KKK state.

    Money for Food, not for Bombs

    by Pope Guilty on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 08:49:05 PM PDT

  •  A good dose of stereotyping in that rant (39+ / 0-)

    What keeps the south republican is not the poor southern whites--Kerry and Gore saw some success in poor rural white counties--it's the middle and upper class suburbs which surround the south's democratic cities, and which vote republican to the tune of 75/80%.

    In other words, the south isn't too awfully different from much of the rest of the country, and I certainly wouldn't use ethnic slurs to disparage its poor.

    •  Generally right; gays/abortion different matter (15+ / 0-)

      Having lived in the South/Bible Belt for 8 years after being in a blue state for 30, you're generally right about the suburbs.

      These folks are rich BECAUSE they're evangelical...or at least that's what they believe.

      The truly unique aspect of the South is the overt intolerance of gays as in they are PROUD to be homophobic, because it makes them better Christians.  Yes, they really think that.  That attitude is one that I really never saw until I came here.  Sure, people are homophobic, but they don't think it's a VIRTUE.  That's the difference.

      There is also an overtly proud history of religious intolerance here.  By being 'strong' in your faith means 'you don't need or WANT to learn about other faiths...why it's just idolatry'.  This is what fuels the whole 'moral relativism' debate.  They feel that any other faith is a threat/idolatry and should be avoided at all costs, if not eliminated (see the whole video game debate about the Rapture).

      That doesn't happen in the Northeast, the West or the West Coast.  To some extent in the Midwest, but definitely moreso in the South.

    •  Thanks for this. (26+ / 0-)

      You've got a lot of things mixed-up here. Indeed, many  of the "rural, poor southern whites" you reference - a good many of whom comprise portions of my family - are far more progressive than you would give them credit for. My 75-year-old devout Southern Baptist great-aunt, a staunch Democrat - opposes the same-sex marriage ban, for f**ks sake.

      It's the RICH white southerners who tend towards more regressive policies, and it is they who vote GOP.

    •  I'd have to agree. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pb, BurnetO, Black Max

      But I do understand yuor frustration with the woefully ignorant. Wherever they may be from.

      •  I live in Los Angeles (14+ / 0-)

        and there is no shortage of the "woefully ignorant" here.

      •  These are the 19% who think they are in the 1%. (6+ / 0-)

        When I moved back to San Antonio in 1990 from LA with 75,000 income we were in the top 2% but middle middle class in LA.

        What never ceased to amaze me was the Walmart manager making 45,000 thought they were in the 1%.

        I left SA in 65 and returned in 90, the South uses their politeness and smiles to mask reality.  After all if you thought you lived in a golden society when 3/5 of the population was slaves--that is big denial.

        The reason these people can support torture is it is no different than supporting slavery or segregation.  To do it you have to deny being humane and cover it with southern charm.

        I returned to LA in 95 because I could not tolerate the bigotry to the extent of normality there.

      •  These are the 19% who think they are in the 1%. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        phemme texxii

        When I moved back to San Antonio in 1990 from LA with 75,000 income we were in the top 2% but middle middle class in LA.

        What never ceased to amaze me was the Walmart manager making 45,000 thought they were in the 1%.

        I left SA in 65 and returned in 90, the South uses their politeness and smiles to mask reality.  After all if you thought you lived in a golden society when 3/5 of the population was slaves--that is big denial.

        The reason these people can support torture is it is no different than supporting slavery or segregation.  To do it you have to deny being humane and cover it with southern charm.

        I returned to LA in 95 because I could not tolerate the bigotry to the extent of normality there.

    •  Question.... (0+ / 0-)

      ...then how do we mobilize the white poor to see that the Republicans are doing things that aren't in their best interest?  How do we get someone who lives in a small country house to realize that the repeal of the inherited wealth tax (estate tax, or "death tax" as the Republicans call it) isn't going to help their kids one bit, but it is going to help the heirs of Scruchy and Lay?

      Perhaps a religious left movement is what we need, with much preaching about the hypocrisy of the pious rich.  Remember the Bible parables about the poor woman who gave two pennies being more generous that the wealthy who gave vast sums to the temple?  Remember Jesus criticizing showy preachers?  Remember him throwing the money-changers out of the temple?  Remember him beating up queers?  (I remember all of them but the last one.

      9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

      by varro on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 11:44:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How do you do it in the South? (8+ / 0-)

        You do it like you would anywhere else. Talk with people, listen to what they are saying and communicate with then in their own style of language.

        Being able to quote a few of the "red words" (what Jesus "said") can be very effective to counteracting the dissonance between what supposedly religous southerners spout off (which they probably got from Rush) and what they supposedly believe.

        I have found that replying with something like "Well, that's not very Christian" can be very effective. And I'm an athiest who has lived in the deep south my entire life.

        •  But GOP talking points tell the world that we (0+ / 0-)

          are Godless liberals, (wasn't that Coulter's book?) and they use that to alienate the religious from the Democratic party.  

          Until that smear can be neutralized, good Christians will always have a problem supporting Democrats, which is why the GOP pushes the abortion issue, and the gay marriage issue.  

          We have allowed the GOP to define who we are and what we stand for, making us fight the battles twice, once to refute their lies and then to try and promote progressive ideals.

          The GOP uses religion as a bludgeon in all areas of the country as it is very effective; if you talk against it, you are viewed as talking against GOD.

      •  Come to understand the differences (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Blue Southerner
        between what Democrats are offering vs. what Republicans are offering. Bush won over the south largely by saying he trusts the American people, meaning he has faith that they can do just fine without alot of government interference; whereas Democrats continue to extend government assistance as the only thing they have to offer. It's a huge contrast between the two, and the sooner Democrats come to understand that and starting putting some faith in the people themselves and stop trying to shove the federal government down their throats as the only path to their success, the sooner they'll connect with the southern voters. What we're lacking in individual prosperity is made up in our social structures and church activities, and we're living much fuller, happier lives than the Democrats give us credit for.
        •  retired on social security? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          MediCare? income transfers between states? Civil rights, equal rights laws and oversight. Money for so-called homeland security, crop supports, Head Start and other educational programs, what else can you think of off the top of your head where the Federal Government supports that full, happy life?

          And where it could support a fuller, happier life still, if only it weren't undermined by those who live the myth of self reliance.

          Who buys that corn and cotton, even the tobacco, to maintain the prices and the Southern lifestyle?

          We can see what happens to the fuller, happier life when the Feds abrogate responsibility by looking at NO in the aftermath of Katrina. The government is, after all, all of us working together to help each other. Life in the red states would be leaner and more bitter without the transfers of money from the more prosperous blue states to the less prosperous red ones.

          •  Never taken a dime (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            in direct payments from the government, though I've paid in quite a few over the years and then some.

            Let me see if I understand you correctly: you think the feds should cut off all funding to the red states, forcing us further into poverty than we already are? Or, because we've such low wages and standards of living, we should actually be getting more from the feds to improve our standards of living? Expand on that if you don't mind, because it's real fuzzy just what you're trying to say.

            And it would benefit you to take a good hard look at how things are done in the south, vs. how they're done in the north. I've read here and elsewhere that northerners tend to rally around government agencies and services as their communal points, with an understanding that the government is them, and therefore is there for them. Is that an accurate take on northern culture?

            Now come down south, and see what we consider our communal points: independent churches, families, private schools (universities included), sports, social networks, charities, and then government when all these others drop the ball.

            I'm glad you brought up Katrina, because that's a very painful reminder of how the federal government actually INTERFERED with our inherent local and regional response efforts. Not a single redneck hillbilly bigot in the south was at rest while one of our southern cities was being destroyed. We came out in droves trying to provide assistance and relief and were turned away, blocked, relieved of our wares and sent home while the federal government sat around waiting for somebody to tell them what to do and what needed to be done. Every single church and charity in 6 states instinctively jumped into action to respond to that crisis, and some are still at it today donating their time and energy cleaning up the mess. This is how we do it. Had the federal government not been there, all the people stranded in the superdome would have been rescued in a single goddamn day.

            •  trying to answer (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TiaRachel, Do Tell

              And it would benefit you to take a good hard look at how things are done in the south, vs. how they're done in the north. I've read here and elsewhere that northerners tend to rally around government agencies and services as their communal points, with an understanding that the government is them, and therefore is there for them. Is that an accurate take on northern culture?

              In general, no, although things vary from place to place.

              I lived most of my adult life in rural Vermont, where the people, via their town meetings, are the government. You can't separate the government from the people from the churches from the schools.  They are all the same people, and you will find them in all those places, voting, arguing, volunteering (definitely, definitely volunteering, or none of those institutions could afford to exist).

              Now that I'm retired, I've moved south to CT for the summer and FL for the winter, and neither are like VT.

              Resisting the Conservation of Joementum

              by LIsoundview on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 05:52:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Your protrayal of the north is totally incorrect (0+ / 0-)

              And it would benefit you to take a good hard look at how things are done in the south, vs. how they're done in the north. I've read here and elsewhere that northerners tend to rally around government agencies and services as their communal points, with an understanding that the government is them, and therefore is there for them. Is that an accurate take on northern culture?

              Now come down south, and see what we consider our communal points: independent churches, families, private schools (universities included), sports, social networks, charities, and then government when all these others drop the ball.

              Your communal points are the communal points that are comman everywhere.  So you are saying we have none of those social structures that you have?  Our hierarchy is much the same as yours when it comes to dealing with problems.  Do you think our churches are populated with robots who add nothing to our communities at large?  Did you read any of the reports after Katrina where the entire north sent assistance?  Our churches and schools had massive fund raising drives and donated goods and services.  We took in many, many Katrina refugees, just like the rest of the country.  

              So all the fine white residents of Gretna would have been there rescuing the blacks at the SuperDome?

              Remember, the Katrina disaster was on Bush's watch, a nice Texan whose administration has many southerners, Tom DeLay, another Texan, southerner, Frist another southerner, our white southern leaders let New Orleans drown, and then left them to rot in their own filth.  

              After Blocking the Bridge, Gretna Circles the Wagons
              Long wary of next-door New Orleans, the town stands by its decision to bar the city's evacuees.

              by Nicholas Riccardi
              GRETNA, Louisiana - Little over a week after this mostly white suburb became a symbol of callousness for using armed officers to seal one of the last escape routes from New Orleans — trapping thousands of mostly black evacuees in the flooded city — the Gretna City Council passed a resolution supporting the police chief's move.

              The Crescent City Connection bridges that cross the Mississippi River into downtown New Orleans, Thursday, Sept. 15, 2005. (AP Photo/Anja Niedringhaus)

              "This wasn't just one man's decision," Mayor Ronnie C. Harris said Thursday. "The whole community backs it."

              Three days after Hurricane Katrina hit, Gretna officers blocked the Mississippi River bridge that connects their city to New Orleans, exacerbating the sometimes troubled relationship with their neighbor. The blockade remained in place into the Labor Day weekend.

              Gretna (pop. 17,500) is a feisty blue-collar city, two-thirds white, that prides itself on how quickly its police respond to 911 calls; it warily eyes its neighbor, a two-thirds black city (pop. about 500,000) that is also a perennial contender for the murder capital of the U.S.

            •  There's another way to put it... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              "the federal government actually INTERFERED with our inherent local and regional response efforts."

              "We came out in droves trying to provide assistance"

              Well, is that a problem of the government in general or a government run by a bunch of fuckups? Coming out in droves, while a good hearted thing to do, was also extremely inefficient, and those people coming in droves were probably interfering with people whose job it was to provide relief.

              Would you rather have a convoy of 20 pickups carrying water or one large truck?

              Let me ask you about it this way: if there was a guy beating up another guy, and there was a policeman and 30 other folks around, whose JOB is it to step in? The cop, trained in conflict resolution, or a mob of 30 people?

              The Dems aren't for a bloated government that collects everybody's money and sits on its ass (like the current one). We're for an EFFICIENT government that won't allow cities to disappear under water. Because the cost of paying for that capability over time (being prepared) pales in comparison to the cost of repairing the damage that happened because of total inertia and inaction.

              •  The problem was- (0+ / 0-)

                There was no one large truck because there was no gasoline. I was about 10 miles north of Hattiesburg, and that's where the troops heading down to the coast from Memphis Monday afternoon got stuck because they ran out of fucking gas, and there were (duh!) no tankers staged up north to resupply anyone.

            •  Excuse me, but... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              That's crap and you know it.  Are you telling me that if Clinton were still President and James Lee
              Witt were still in charge of FEMA, that the same garbage would have happened.

              With all due respect, sir, I call bullshit.  I am a Memphian of 33 years, so I'm not just another damn Yankee, and I tire of hearing the same "self-reliant" crap year after year after year.

              We are all locked in this together, and we are all dependent not only on ourselves but each other.  Southerners do rally together in times of crisis, but the resentment of government here has NOTHING to do with government programs; I am certain very few Southerners want to see TVA go away.

              You KNOW what it has to do with, desegregation.  Yes, I am WELL aware that Southie was worse than Memphis in its response to busing; hell, I WAS BUSSED to a 90&-black junior High School in 1973, and it was one of the best things ever to happen to me.

              I agree with you that churches and charities do a marvelous job with the resources that they have to work with, and I know a lot of people who went to the Coast to aid folks.

              That having been said, we NEEDED a strong governmental presence to assist, and all we got was Bush.  It's that dumbass "Ain't nobody tellin' ME what to do" mentality, and it hurts ALL of us, not just the people who live outside the South.

              The days of plantations are supposed to be over, and paternalism with it; it's too damned bad no one told the Republicans down here!

              •  and that 'rallying around the private schools' (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Up North, we rally around our public schools, go to public school sports events, do fund-raising for new public school band uniforms or for the public school choir's tour out of town or for other "frills."

                The mainstream people's kids go to public schools and are valued members of our community. Just a few rich people and some religious nuts (my evaluation) send their offspring to private schools.

        •  Maybe that's how it's spun down there (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          splashy, TiaRachel

          So you say the Dems shove the fed. govt down people's throats?

          There's a big difference in providing people assistance and forcing people to use it.

          We Dems understand that some things are non-negotiable. Nobody should go hungry in the States - nobody. If that means I have to pay the $2/day to support a hungry person in America, I will do that.

          I don't force them to get foodstamps, and I don't make them accept any kind of money they don't want to get.

          With the southern system of self-reliance, there's always a "maybe". If you in some way offend the church that gives out meals, they're under NO OBLIGATION to do so. You will starve in the streets if enough people refuse you help, or view you as a undesireable minority (black/hispanic/gay/unwed mother/non-patriotic Yankee/whatever).

          There has to be a basic service that's always there. Think police, firefighters, emergency rooms... They're there to prevent you - ANYBODY - from dying. Isn't giving you food/shelter another way of doing that?

          And if several people abuse the system, so what. Looking at the massive fraud by this republican majority, and a financial clusterfuck they brought to the US budget, a double dose of food stamps one month is microscopic in comparison.

          •  I agree (0+ / 0-)
            I agree there needs to be a safety net, and there is one in place already. In fact there are multiple layers to the safety net that more than adequately serve those who filter down through the last cracks of them, being the churches and groups and families and charities. But when you try to convince these poor southern white males to vote for you because you want to strengthen that fifth layer of support, most of these guys have never fallen that far to reach the government layer of support. So your campaigns to save the poor sound irrelevant to them.  You want them to vote in their self-interest, well Bush acknowledges and has shown support for these other layers in the safety net. How would a vote for a Dem be in these people's self interest?
      •  go ask... (0+ / 0-)

        this guy about connecting with peckerwoods/white trash/etc.

        you can start here.

        me talk pretty one day.

        by mudskipper on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:50:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Somebody sounds jealous (19+ / 0-)
    Unsolicited word of advice: that kind of vitriolic bashing of southerners has a tendency to tug on the loyal heartstrings of true southerners to band together despite our perceived faults.
  •  Looking back over it again... (18+ / 0-)

    ...I'm afraid that all this diary really does is repeat age-old and in many cases expired stereotypes.

    As a Southerner, I'm offended.

  •  The Peckerwood Elite (20+ / 0-)

    Rick Santorum - Pennsylvania
    Dennis Hastert - Illinois
    John Boehner - Ohio
    James Dobson - Colorado
    Grover Norquist - Pennsylvania

    And in case you haven't noticed, Judge Roy Moore got his ass whupped in the Republican primary.

    Locations of Ku Klux Klan

    Locations of Christian Identity Movement

    State Income Inequality and Presidential Election Turnout and Outcome

    The entire United States of American is a Peckerwood Nation, and David Brooks is a MapleLeaf Peckerwood.

    •  Who are those people? (11+ / 0-)

      Notice none of those people are poor, nor Southern.

      Bigotry is to be condemned.  This diary is one example.

    •  Excellent point on Moore (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Yosef 52, bronte17, retired

      And in case you haven't noticed, Judge Roy Moore got his ass whupped in the Republican primary.

    •  Klan in Prospect Heights? (0+ / 0-)

      Where did you come up with that list of Klan activity that included Prospect Heights, IL?

      I can look out of my window and see my neighbors in Prospect Heights.  It is a small suburb with a population of 15,000.  I have lived here for 17 years and never, ever heard of any Klan activity in this area!

      What are the sources of this mis-information?

      •  Martin Luther King (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        splashy, BurnetO, PaulVA, Do Tell

        ...faced a lot of scary, violent situations in his marches through hostile towns.  Yet, he said that he always felt that God would keep him safe.  Except twice.  He truly thought he was going to die when he marched in 1) Greenwood, MS and 2) Cicero, IL.

        Don't underetimate the racism some people in some of the whitest, northern-est suburbs.  Cicero, Prospect Heights, Skokie...

        •  Rich people are the worst. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          splashy, PaulVA, alizard

          Back in MA, one rich town (Hingham) blocked a commuter rail for years that spans the entire south shore on the far fetched possibility someone neither Anglo or Saxon could take the train down to their nothing fucking happening ever town and ....umm...walk around and get bored ?

          •  Try Killingly, CT (0+ / 0-)

            There was a Klan rally there not too long ago.  Northern Maryland above Baltimore and the Eastern Shore are practically Klan havens in some parts, especially around Havre de Grace and Cambridge.

            If the average citizen is guaranteed equal opportunity in the polling place, he must have equal opportunity in the market place - FDR

            by PaulVA on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 06:04:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Skokie? (0+ / 0-)

          I know the KKK has marched there mostly to scare the shit out of the old Jewish people, but I don't think it is a hot bed of racism.

      •  Just Googled Prospect Heighs and the KKK (0+ / 0-)

        SPLC site seems to be correct.

      •  They're in Prospect Heights (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        splashy, TiaRachel, Do Tell

        According to this site from Tel Aviv University, the Imperial Klans of America moved to Prospect Heights in 2000.  Matt Hale, whose disciple rampaged across Indiana and Illinois one recent Fourth of July weekend killing nine people, is from Illinois as well.

        The presence of a Klan rally is no indicator that a community supports the Klan.  The most extreme example that I'm aware of took place in Gary, Indiana, a city over 80% African-American where the KKK rallied.  The mayor suckered the KKK into using Gilroy stadium, which was long abandoned and in the middle of a swamp.  

        •  That Was 2000 (0+ / 0-)

          Just because a sleeze like Matt Hale had a hole in the wall in Prospect Heights doesn't mean that the little town is a hotbed of the Klan.  As I recall his organization was made up of about 3 people.

          You are doing the same thing as the person who wrote the rant blaming the South for all the ills of the world.

          I wonder if he or she really believed all the crap or if it was a set-up to provoke this split?

          •  I'm not split (0+ / 0-)

            But I know that the outrage that you feel is the same that I feel with the frequent diaries on the South.

            It is a national problem.  And it is a small group of sleazy individuals trying to build a movement.  Think of Matt Hale as a field organizer.

            We won't solve the problem by isolating the South no more than by isolating Prospect Heights.

            By the way, where is Hastert's district in relation to you?  Forgot my IL geography.

      •  The map is inaccurate (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joy, splashy, PaulVA, Do Tell

        It does not nearly have enough hate groups in CT.  They have been making inroads with the impoverished here.  People always see CT as Martha Stewart and the Gilmore Girls, but eastern CT is blue collar and redneck country.  The hate groups are picking up steam since more of the work is going to minorities.  

        The local Walmart is an excellent place to see the south as described in this diary played out in the center of blue country.  There are pickup trucks so rusty that the only thing holding them together is the confederate flag, the nascar decal and the gun rack.  The Republican policies are creating a very pissed off working class who are ripe for the hateful rhetoric of the same party.  It is not the Republican party policies, it is the Mexicans and immigrants.  It is the blacks and Hispanics but it is certainly not tax cuts for the rich to be paid for by cutting services for the poor.  

        The hateful words of the Right Wing talk radio were only in static, mono, AM.  Now they are on crystal clear stereo FM.  More evangelical Christian churches are popping up, with the same hateful message as the Southern conservative churches.  The New South is here.  It is in every working class neighborhood, everywhere that the conservative economic policy has created a few haves and many, many have nots.

        November is a big turning point.  It will either mark a change for the better or it will signify the acceptance of this new direction.  We need a party that will stand up and call hatred what it is.  A party that will denounce policies that hurt the nation, a party that will guarantee to help the poor of this country.  We don't have this party now and if they don't show up soon we all will lose.

        •  Eastern CT (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TiaRachel, pgm 01

          There is also a giant confederate flag on the side of the road off of Route 6 a little west of Danielson.

          I asked the owner of the gas station that has it why he was flying it and he said it represented his heritage.  I said so, your great grand parents moved up here?  

          He said no, his white heritage.  

          For all his crap, he does get a lot of long stares still, but there is a lot of that crap there.

          If the average citizen is guaranteed equal opportunity in the polling place, he must have equal opportunity in the market place - FDR

          by PaulVA on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 06:07:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, the GOP needs to rally the poor ignorant (0+ / 0-)

          southerners to vote against their own self interests, so they pander to them using religion, immigrants, gays; the shell game is quite usefull here.  

          The more wealthy better educated southern whites need no prompting to vote the GOP, it IS in their self interest to vote GOP.  

          The southern middle class also buy into the GOP, they are prosperous enough to want lower taxes, they have health care, jobs, and stable communities.  But where the GOP hooks them is religion, family values, and voting against the immoral liberals who are out to destroy their communities.

          They are enough to tip the south GOP.  

      •  RE: Klan in Prospect Heights? (0+ / 0-)

        If you scroll down to IL you will see your local chapter.

      •  Southern Poverty Law Center (0+ / 0-)

        Ask them.

        They are a reputable group with a long history of accurately tracking the Klan.  It only takes one person of those 15,000 to put the Klan on the map in Prospect Heights.  And no doubt, the membership is being recruited from all of Northern Illinois, if not all of Illinois.  Think of it as a national field office instead of a local organization.

  •  Bigotry (17+ / 0-)

    What disgusting irony that this is diary is so full of bigotry and hate.

    There are some equally disgusting ideas about race, and recently, voting rights, put forward by many people all over this country -- not just the South -- and those must be condemned.  But this diary is unbelievably hurtful towards a vast swath of kind, compassionate, family-oriented progressives.  You might not go to the same Church as them, but you share a humanity with them that they try to live well every day of their lives.

    There are people in the South (and elsewhere) who have committed crimes against humanity, both now and in the past.  But they do not represent citizens of Alabama or Mississippi any more than the Hamptons' aristocracy represents New York.

  •  Harsh (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    andydoubtless, caple66wood

    and sad to be seeing our fellow countrymen as so deficient, so other, so "they." It's also "stoking the fires of hatred," no?

    You might want to enter that "GOP (Good Ole Peckerwoods)" in the What Does "GOP" Stand For? contest. It closes tomorrow.

    No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a part of a continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, [America] is the less

    by Alien Abductee on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 09:22:53 PM PDT

  •  maybe they'll just secede again (0+ / 0-)

    without objection

  •  take a good look in the mirror please (19+ / 0-)

    stereotypes anyone?  while i cannot deny sharing some of the anger in this piece, it is also fair to say that you are way off base with this.  maybe you should spend some more time in the south or with rural folk in general.  you might try reading steve jarding and dave "mudcat" saunder's book "Foxes in the Henhouse".  would also recommend listening to some drive by truckers- hard rocking band from alabama that speaks to much of the "southern thang" from a decidedly liberal perspective while obviously sharing in those things that southerners celebrate about themselves (which is not necessarily a bad thing).  the so-called progressives who came up with the idea that any party can win elections by ignoring and denigrating southern and rural people are living in lala land and deserve to lose. read jarding and saunders book- they lay it out plain as day for any bubba to understand (jefro)

    •  Recommended Reading (8+ / 0-)

      Also, I would highly recommend Sons of Mississippi by Paul Hendrickson.  It catches up with some of the people who are most identified with Southern racism -- The sherriffs who "defended" Ole Miss against James Meredith --  and traces all of the nuance and regret that they and their families feel about it, now.

      Even the most bigoted people are changing, these days.  It's not all gone, but there's a lot to be hopeful for.  And most Southerners are beautiful, kind people who have never thought a bigoted thougth themselves.

      •  never thinking a bigoted thought (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I don't think it matters what color your skin is, I think everyone thinks a bigoted thought every now and then. I'm black, I do too.

        The real problem is when people don't want to admit thinking a bigoted thought. My very first diary here was all about that.. I think its still here on Kos.

    •  Thanx for the Drive-By Truckers rec (0+ / 0-)

      took me a minute to realize you were naming a band (punctuation can be our friend) - listening to "Carl Perkin's Cadillac" right now. (It appears they're from Athens, GA not Alabama). Same vibe as Steve Earle - the ultimate Southern working man.

  •  you may not be right (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CocoaLove, BurnetO, retired

    on all accounts, but that was one serious motherfucking rant dude.

    Impeach and Imprison! -6.63/-6.10

    by FireCrow on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 09:53:09 PM PDT

  •  Can someone please explain to me... (17+ / 0-)

    and use small words, since I'm from the South, how y'all got so enlightened everywhere else?  

    For instance, I had no idea that "dollar rides on the tilt a whirl, cheap corn dogs, elephant ears, [and] cotton candy" are unknown outside the South, or that nowhere else in the nation is it common to find "ring throwing and shooting games. . . nothing that would tax the mental retardation that home schooling induces on your little progenies who will one day grow up to be employees of the peckerwood emporium: Walmart."

    This is not to deny the rising tide of peckerwoodism, nor the bloody history of racism in the South.  But I have to agree with Turnover above that whatever agreement you might get out of me on the substance of these problems, as a Southerner myself, the balance of this rant just offends me.  

    And bravo to TarheelDem for poking holes in some of the stereotypes.  I noticed on the CDC obesity map that Michigan is right there with the South, and (can't easily find the actual percentages), most of the rest of the country is no more than 5% behind the South.  And we have better cooking than you do.    

    More substantially, you can't treat the South like a foreign nation, a "them" who is threatening to pollute "our" precious bodily fluids, without noting that ever since the Civil War, we've been a colony of the empire, and there are vested interests in the centers of wealth, capital, and culture that have profited very well from this arrangement.  Hell, this was true even before the "war of northern aggression" (see how far South I'm being driven by this rhetoric?)  See the book by the reporters from the Hartford Courant, Complicity, for more on this.  

    I digress.  The above question is a real one: progressive causes have found more success in areas outside the South.  How did this happen?  As a progressive Southerner, I have no time for another rant that tells me how much I and everyone I know suck.  Tell me how to change it.

    Because for Zen surrealism, you can't beat living in the Bible Belt...

    by salvador dalai llama on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 09:56:43 PM PDT

    •  I hurt with you (7+ / 0-)

      I was truly hurt by this diary and I don't get offended by much in this world.  I share your pain.  The point by point rebuttal was tempting for me, too.  But the diary is just bigoted, nothing more.  Agreed, on your points.  But let's find a more nuturing environment to grow these ideas.

    •  Are We 2 nations? (6+ / 0-)

      Sometimes I wonder if we are two nations.  While I thought the rant on the South was way over the top and uncalled for, especially the old-time stereotypes (Peckerwood? Indeed!)there are some things going on south of the Mason Dixon Line I find confusing.  Oh, we have some of the problems here in "Yankee Land" but, well, George W. Bush is the prototype for Texas and the last I heard, that "ain't North."

      Up here in the industrial midwest, we didn't get involved with all the feuding about the Civil War because most of us came from European Immigrant backgrounds, and we worked in the factories and in the building trades for good pay, good benefits, pensions, etc.  We belonged to unions.
      Then the big jobs went South because the labor was cheap there and there wasn't much in the way of organized labor to get in the way of corporate profits.
      Soon, more and more manufacturing went South, leaving the midwest with empty factories.  The politicians headed down South too, and everything was anti union, anti intellectual, etc.

      The sons and daughters of the mid-west immigrants went to college and became interested in Civil Rights for minorities, and then there was the Women's Movement and the Viet Nam War.

      It seemed like the old Confederate States didn't like the changes.  Remember, this area was once solid Democrat.  But, then Nixon came up with the Southern Strategy and everything changed.

      But the groundwork came earlier.  Most of the Southern Democrats were more conservative than their Northern counterparts and they hated, yes, they really hated John F. Kennedy.  

      I don't want to go into a long screed.  It just seems like so much of the "Red States" just don't want to have anything to do with Democrats.  Please, just tell us why that is....

      Oh, there are plenty of people in the North that appreciate Southern values and pockets of racism and anti-feminism exist all over the country.  

      We do vote for Republicans.  I live in a Republican district in Illinois.  But it just seems like most of the folks in the old Confederate states have a real dislike for anything liberal and still love G.W. Bush even though he is screwing up this country big time.

      Issues like flag-burning, gay marriage, staying the course in Iraq, seem to be powerful issues with Southerners. This has nothing to do with class or income; it is just a regional thing.  

      I just want to know why it is so over-riding and what can we do to be "one country under God?"

      •  W is not a Southerner (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PaulVA, rockhound, Do Tell

        He is a Conneticut peckerhead (whee!!!!) who fooled a bunch of Texans into electing him Governor. I hear a lot of them say they don't claim him anymore. All hat, no cattle.

      •  For starters (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dwahzon, retired

        I just want to know why it is so over-riding and what can we do to be "one country under God?"

        we could stop insinuating that southerners are sub-human morons.  

        the south did NOT have a monopoly over institutional racism in this country and the factories in the north that were fattened by the cheap raw materials produced in the south aided and abetted this so-called southern culture.  the same southern culture the east coast loves to parade in front of us "po' southern white trash" as a symbol of our depravity; used to remind us that we can never have a valid worldview compared to someone educated in a university located anywhere but the south.

        Are we 2 nations? if i were a new kossack reading this for the first time i might be left with the impression the party of the people just arent interested in people like me, a backward, poor white piece of southern trash with no hope of having my worldview considered by my betters up north.

    •  Sorry (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      But southern food cannot hold a candle to the authentic Italian, French and Portuguese food in Rhode Island.

      If the average citizen is guaranteed equal opportunity in the polling place, he must have equal opportunity in the market place - FDR

      by PaulVA on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 06:09:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now you've done it! (0+ / 0-)

        I freely admit that I have never been to Rhode Island, birthplace of Emeril.

        However, if you've not eaten Southern food, you cannot make that claim.  Even if you HAVE.

        I'm not saying it's GOOD FOR YOU, but nothing tastes better than pan-fried chicken with sliced tomatoes (home-grown, thank you) and fresh baked biscuits with fresh butter.

        I HAVE eaten italian food in St. Louis and Philly, and as good as it is, it's not Southern food, not by a mile.

        By the way, if you do come South, remember this: the ONLY good barbeque is within a 150-mile radius of Memphis.

    •  YOU explain it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TiaRachel, Do Tell, shaharazade

      The above question is a real one: progressive causes have found more success in areas outside the South.  How did this happen?  As a progressive Southerner, I have no time for another rant that tells me how much I and everyone I know suck.  Tell me how to change it.

      Since so many responses here have been the wounded wails of people whose hurt feelings prevent them from acknowledging the validity of the diarist's assessment of an electorally-significant portion of the southern population, why don't you take the time to explain the popular response the South gives to the GOP's naked appeals to regressive social and economic policies?

      You acknowledged it yourself that progressive politics flourish everywhere outside the South (worldwide, even), selling themselves on the soundness of their policies and the notion of the common good without pandering to "regional pride" or "religious background" (as if Southerners can claim those attributes any more than anyone else). Edencho attempted to make sense of why a majority of Southerners reject this line of reasoning. If he's wrong, then let's hear your explanation.

      (And I hope it's more substantial than "snooty Yankee liberals make me feel stupid so I'll vote Republican" because if that's all you've got, and in light of Yankee willingness to vote for LBJ, Carter, and Clinton, I'd say it's clear which side has a "problem" accepting the other.)

      My other car is a pair of boots.

      by FutureNow on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:41:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've tried to tell it already (0+ / 0-)
        about a hundred different ways here on dkos and those who still don't get it apparently are themselves undereducated and willfully blind.

        Government is not the end all be all of existence to  southerners, and hence it is not now nor ever will be the most important aspect of their lives. For all but the wealthy elite, government is a distant, very distant nuisance in their lives. Anything progressives try to talk to them about always, without fail, include government intervention as the only solution to any problem. These people rely on families and friends and their church and social networks to help them navigate life's difficulties,  rejecting the government's assistance as a very last resort. Progressives completely disregard everything else that's important to these people, all of their independent social support structures, to peddle the government to them as the one and only solution to all their problems.

  •  There's real, and dehumanizing, hatred here. (17+ / 0-)

    In 1898, in Wilmington, North Carolina white populists and black Republicans formed a coalition that won local elections on an anti-racist political platform. Local racists responded by essentially overthrowing the "fusionist" government and carrying out a campaign of bloody violence that probably killed thousands of African Americans and drove from their homes many thousands more.

    My question to edencho is simple: who, in addition to those not-yet-disenfranchised African Americans, could it have been that elected the fusionists if white Southerners were the beasts he evidently believes we are?

    The answer is of course too simple. Edencho can hedge and say he did not mean to say a given population of human beings were universally evil, but too much of this diary indicates he thinks otherwise.

    When I read the words

    another burr in the south's ass was the hated feminist revolution/women's rights movement that dared to offer up the heretical concept of equal rights for women, this was a slap in the face to southern men whose strong daddy sense of self was living in a world where the definition of a `good woman' who shut the fuck up, knew her place, cooked dinner, laid on her back and was content to live a life of subservience and deference to the lord of the `plantation', or to otherwise be barefoot, pregnant and slavishly obedient.

    I think about my parents and I honestly want to cry. So much about my father might in a facile way resemble the monsters you write about--he has a tenth grade education, he votes Republican--but did you see him touch my Mother's hand with tears welling up in his eyes when she told him she had breast cancer? did you work at his side through forty years of backbreaking labor of forestry and tobacco farming? do you know the contents of his heart? can you explain these people I have known all my life to me better than my own senses?

    How fucking dare you.

    It's evident you are more interested in exhibiting some shallow sense of moral superiority over the people with whom you disagree rather than working out positions and issues and arguments that can win them over. And it is I suppose easier for you intellectually to rationalize away objections and counterarguments as merely the product of brainwashing than to listen, understand, and respond respectfully.

    As it is, edencho, you're not talking to anyone but your own leftwing equivalent of the Rush Limbaugh dittoheads. You are not accomplishing or doing anything of value with this post. You are only exercising an ugly rage. And in that you seem very much like the brutes you are trying--inarticulately--to criticize.

    Substantively, edencho, I probably agree with you about ninety percent of the most critical issues that face America right now: Iraq, civil liberties, same-sex marriage, class mobility, healthcare, alternative energy, what have you. But you defame me, you defame my family, you defame my friends, and for that I truly, and justifiably, hate you.

    •  You said it all, andydoubtless. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lisa, PaulVA, dwahzon, retired, Blue Southerner

      My Dad and yours are a lot alike.  Not a lot of education, but smarter than most people I met in college, and more heart than any bleeding-heart among us.  But unlike your Dad, mine votes Democrat.

      What I want to know is why they vote differently.

      It really is time for people to stop sneering at Southerners, or there will be no victory for America, much less Dems/progressives.  We have got to figure out how to show that the rethug way is not good for them.  Spitting on the South is not the way to go.

    •  Eden is a uniter, not a divider! (0+ / 0-)

      And we wonder why most of the South and Midwest can't stand the thought of voting democrat, even though it would obviously be in their better interestes. It's because of half brained hate filled ranting from chumps like Eden.

      "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth." -- JFK

      by Tryptophan on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 07:20:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It should reassure me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        to assume he and his cheerleaders have purged the evils from their own communities and have turned their attention to other parts of the country to save us from hell.

        But I have a discomforting hunch that while he and his are clubbing the south over its head like a bunch of neanderthals, CA and NY and a couple other blue states will be mysteriously voting red in the not too distant future.

    •  Did you ever try to educate against... (0+ / 0-)

      the bigotry and violence against people of color, feminists, GLBT people?

      Did you ever try to educate your father about diversity, equality and freedom?

      Did you ever meet a person of color who suffered a lynching in their family?

      Did you ever meet a woman who was raped, beaten, and humiliated by her husband?

      Did you ever meet a GLBT person who was beaten, humiliated and destroyed by their family, neighbors and former friends when they came out?

      Did you ever?

      Certainly your father was a good man. But these vile habits of "southern" white male bigots have to be beaten out of our society. They are what brings America down in dignity and respect.

      Now, tell me again how you hate me.


      •  You really ought not to have gone there. (0+ / 0-)

        Honestly, unclebucky, think about what you wrote above. The core of my critique of edencho is that he's making crass generalizations about people he doesn't know, and forgetting their complexity as thinking human beings because that is inconvenient to his invective. In this context, your response to me is flamboyantly stupid. Because the answer to your questions (all of them, absolutely and without exception) is yes.

        But let's not let it end there. These are a (necessarily) incomplete list of the implicit assumptions your comment makes:

        (1) that I am myself straight;
        (2) that based solely on the fact that my father votes Republican he endorses "violence against people of color, feminists, and LGBT people";
        (3) that my father doesn't sympathize with women who have suffered violence, in the home or otherwise;
        (4) that these "vile habits of 'southern' white male bigots" essentially belong to all southern men, to all southern Republican men, or even to all southern conservative Republican men.

        I am gay, both my parents are prochoice, and my father votes for Bush because he subscribes to the conservatives' positions in the War on Terror (not the best position surely, but not enough to elevate him to the status of monster, as edencho would have it). My parents read newspapers voraciously. And for the record, my father had to quit high school to help support his family, and is to this day a highly literate man who reads voraciously when he's not farming or, yes, watching NASCAR.

        I would qualify the above by saying that I do not "educate" my parents about anything, since that is a horribly arrogant, pejorative, patronizing term in this context. I have always talked to my parents, I have always challenged them about their beliefs, and they have done me the same favor.

        When we live in a polity where we expect others to justify their beliefs through reason, we must simultaneously be prepared to justify our own, we must listen as well as talk, we must literally "exchange" our views, even as we never lose track of what we know to be true.

        The alternative is to do as you and edencho advocate, and barrel through the world pretending to know every answer in every heart, and so freeing yourself from the necessity of finding out what is in fact there. Your radically elitist and dehumanizing posture towards southerners releases you from the need to find out about these people. It's convenient for you, yes, because you never have to encounter something that may disprove the way you see the world, but it does nothing more than free you into the same stupidity that you would attribute to my father.

        When in fact my father is a wise man who believes a few wrong things, you are a fool who accidentally happens to subscribe to some right ones.

        And I think now I've justified enough of my life to you, you condescending, ignorant, self-righteous fuck.

        •  Aha... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Well, we both have to have coffee sometime, and discuss this without the scrim of the net between us. The truth is, the forum let's one go on and on, but it is both hard and dangerous to reveal profiles and contact info. Equally hard to "know" someone, so it is only in situations like this where you can exchange info after the battle has moved on.

          I read your response, and now I understand better of your situation. But you ended with a flat insult to the writer that you yourself did not like happen to you. For that, having read your response, I am sorry.

          Other than the nasty ending I gave you (matching the one you gave me back, ouch), I said "But these vile habits of "southern" white male bigots have to be beaten out of our society." The comment was general, yes, and as a nun used to say to us, if the shoe fits, wear it. If not, well, then look around, the culture still seems to encourage peckerwoodishness, and the good ole boy network is still alive and kicking. Most important, where are the leaders in the South like Moyers, like Carter, and many others? Why do we see the bigots leading the culture rather than the people like you and like you described?

          Now, other than in Southern Illinois, I haven't experienced life in the South. But I have met many white males of the peckerwood variety in work and socially and from what I did experience from them, I don't think that I would want to live among people like that. I have also met so many pleasant people from the South (now living in the North) and I know there are many wonderful people like you, like the people you mentioned, but they told me they fled the South claiming they would never want to live in the South again. One anecdote a person told me was that, yes, they fled, but now the South is following them north, so it doesn't matter, the KKK is up here in Michigan, doing very well, thank you.

          I am a 2nd generation American (that is my grandparents came "over on the boat") and I live in the North. I am certainly a progressive, I certainly do believe in diversity, but when debating with many authoritarian, reactive white bigot/racists, I tend to wonder why I even tried to open a dialog. Education for those closed books is a lost effort.

          Thanks for answering my questions, and thanks for the effort. I am duly chastised (no snarkyness here, but contrite).




    •  SF has is too (0+ / 0-)

      Slamming the South is tired, there are plenty of Kluxers in the Bay Area and not just in San Quin.  Edencho should now put his/her pen to paper about the dope smoking, middleaged racists in Berkeley.  They are here. And one of my favorite sights, out in the foggy SF avenues, was a surplused deuce and a quarter army truck with the logo of the National Socialist White Peoples Party complete with bent cross spray painted on the door.  
      Edencho was a good pulpy read, just pen some bile regarding Cali-style liberal racists sometime?  
      Skimpy Calif links SPL

  •  Congratulations. (9+ / 0-)

    You've just demonized a demographic group that largely doesn't vote in the first place; more gross generalizations follow:

    The stereotypical hardcore Bush cultist voters are actually well-off educated white males.

    The stereotypical hardcore religious right voters are white little old ladies in the South.

    The younger, poorer, bigoted men who have lost faith in government actually live everywhere and are largely independents.

    Meanwhile, the younger, poorer, female Republicans are still for having a safety net and regulating business.

    And if you're sick of the gross generalizations, you can get some real demographic details from Pew's Typology Groups--it's fascinating stuff if--like me--you're actually interested in that sort of thing.

  •  I live in California... (7+ / 0-)

    I'm a veteran, and when I enlisted (in '63) I swore to defend my country... all of it.

    There's good people and assholes in EVERY state.

    Hopefully we're ALL moving towards greater enlightenment. That's what I choose to believe, and I know I'm right.

    •  I live in L.A. and have spent time in rural TN (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lisa, Yosef 52, pb, PaulVA, dwahzon

      Good and bad, both. But I have met some of the most truly genuine and kind-hearted people in the world living in TN. I don't agree with them on many political issues, but damned if many of them aren't wonderful people who will bend over backwards for you. My parents had a house there for some 25 years and the generosity of these people - especially during my mother's illness and subsequent death - is unparalleled. Yep, there sure are some people there with twisted views of race, gender, and the world in general... but no more so than those I grew up with in Chicago or encounter in L.A.

    •  I've lived in a lot of America (0+ / 0-)

      and the idea that there are lots of bad people everywhere is a cop out.  The question is, what is this or that area like relative to other areas of the country.  If you were starting out in life, would it be sensible to not make critical comparisons between, say,  San Diego, California, and San Diego, Texas, as a place to live that offers opportunity and a future, where you might grow and prosper. (No offense to the good people of SD, TX, but a lot more, proportionately, of their young people want desperately to leave that place.)

      Been to both.  SD, CA, wins hands down. Duh!

      Abigail, I'm sure if there is something out there, looking down on us from somewhere else in the Universe, they're wise enough to stay away from us. --Grissom

      by world traveler on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 10:37:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  One would think an east coast (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pb, Blue Southerner

    intellectual (or maybe one of those west coast/greater Atzlan progressives)could come up with a new way to win votes in the south instead of tossing all of them in a carpet bag and slapping a "white trash" label on it.  good luck with this campaign of hate.  the fact is white southern males can be and are progressive. i for one wouldn't mind having another LBJ or a Clinton in the whitehouse in '08. ignore us at your peril...

  •  And furthermore... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MaximusNYC, andydoubtless

    I sure hope that this ignorant, racist, elitist rant is not where Daily Kos is going... or I'm leaving. And taking my contributions, both monetary and energetic, with me.

  •  Why did this diary get rescued? (5+ / 0-)

    Southern bigotry is real, and it's sad, and it's born of a long history of endemic poverty.  It merits an analysis, not a screed.

    The kind of blame-the-victim class contempt spewed in this (very long) diary reminds me of what in conservative ragsheets used to pass as "social commentary" in the '80s and '90s in response to the popularization of inner city 'gangsta' culture.  I wouldn't want to spend an hour with the kind of personalities caricatured in this diary, true, but nor would I want to spend an hour with a Crip.  That doesn't lead me to the conclusion that gangmembers are the catalyst for the moral collapse of America and the downfall of Western civilization.

    Let's aspire to think more seriously about these issues.

    •  that's an easy question to answer (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dwahzon, Ari Mistral, dannyinla, Do Tell

      While the rant was entertaining (I have family from the South - like a grandmother who boasted of being a member of the ladies' auxillary of the KKK)... sometimes a diary is more important for the comments than for the diary itself.

      This is one of those diaries.

      There are some interesting and perceptive comments on this thread, most of which are from people who either do or have lived in the South.

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 12:55:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not so far off base, for a rant (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, Do Tell, TimFong

    I've lived in the South, the Mid-West, and the West, and I've traveled over this whole continent many, many times. Overall, there is more intolerance among the Anglo males of the flatland South than anywhere else in America (the women are just a little bit ahead of the men, but not by much).  And it's not just racial--it's against anyone who's not from "around here" too.  It's not class, because southerners are taught to stay in their place, and then are rewarded for it by being called the Backbone of the South (whatever class they're in).  

    These Anglo, flatland southerners, by and large, still have an extremely provincial outlook on about everything, and are proud of it!  I could give you lots and lots of examples.  They're still sore about losing the War of Northern Agression, for chrissake, and live out their dream of victory, among other ways, in reenactments where a serious topic of discussion is exactly what tactics would have won that battle for "them."

    Look, the rural, flatland South will be the last place progressive Democrats will win.  In the big cities, sure they can, because the cities are linked up to world-wide communications networks (which is yet another reason net neutrality is so very important).  People in the cities have to be able to work with people outside their own little enclave, and so they have to grow up.

    There's the key: grow up.  The enforced juvenility of the rural, flatland Anglo (represented so well in George the Bush, still the frat rat in so many ways), and the backward educational system, will not give them the tools they need to grow up, think critically, and evaluate issues on their merits.  

    What's sad is how this world view turns back on many of the Black people of the flatland South, and inculcates a racist attitude it them as well.  Again, I've got plenty of examples, from years of living and travel.

    One thing to note: I've carefully carved the flatlands away from the mountain South.  While the mountain South is no social paradise, and is usually more rural than the flatlands, for reasons that would take too long to go into here mountain folks are usually a lot more friendly and tolerant, in my experience, than the flatlanders. But this isn't a post on cultural geography.

    Just to say, in general you got it right, even though, as is always the case with rants, it's overdone.  But that's the fun part of rants, isn't it?

    Abigail, I'm sure if there is something out there, looking down on us from somewhere else in the Universe, they're wise enough to stay away from us. --Grissom

    by world traveler on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 10:22:56 PM PDT

    •  you know... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      These Anglo, flatland southerners, by and large, still have an extremely provincial outlook on about everything, and are proud of it!  I could give you lots and lots of examples.  They're still sore about losing the War of Northern Agression, for chrissake, and live out their dream of victory, among other ways, in reenactments where a serious topic of discussion is exactly what tactics would have won that battle for "them."

      I knew a man who fits that caricature of yours to a T, minus the disparaging commentary--he was also a security guard at my high school, and one of the nicest, kindest men I have ever met. He enjoyed sitting around and talking to us ("little brother" / "little sister") in our free time, ("sit around and tell lies") and he probably did the work of three guidance counselors right there. He was also very proud of and very in touch with his roots, his family, his heritage and their shared history, and yes, he's been known to participate in Civil War re-enactments as well. So is there anything wrong with all of that, except for your apparent disdain for it?

      •  I think I said (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        "by and large."  Fine exceptions like him give me hope for humanity.  The ten bubbas in the roadhouse down the road, reciting Rush "The Dope Fiend" Lamebawl, are what folks like him are up against.  You too.  Me too.

        Abigail, I'm sure if there is something out there, looking down on us from somewhere else in the Universe, they're wise enough to stay away from us. --Grissom

        by world traveler on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 10:52:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree, (0+ / 0-)

          From that paragraph, I perceived some hostility to the seeming insularity of it all, but I don't think that insularity--in and of itself--is necessarily a flaw. Uneducated, insular, and bigoted, yes, that's definitely a problem. But the flip side of that is the self-educated, inward-looking, enlightened counterpart. Now I haven't studied the numbers involved, but I'll concede that that may be the exception rather than the rule, or maybe their quiet support just gets drowned out by the dittoheads out there. Then again, even dittoheads have been known to grow out of it...

          •  Sad to say (0+ / 0-)

            he probably is the exception.  The social, religious, political, and class pressures are terribly hard to grow out of, especially with a horrible educational system.  

            Many Southerners who do break away mentally have a background in the military.  Being forced out of their cocoon and into a foreign culture can have a leavening effect on a person.  I've seen that, too.  Maybe your friend had that going for him.  Especially if he was in WWII or Korea (even Vietnam), it would have changed his life immoderately.  

            We need to give him and his kind all the support we can.

            Abigail, I'm sure if there is something out there, looking down on us from somewhere else in the Universe, they're wise enough to stay away from us. --Grissom

            by world traveler on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 11:13:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  again, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              retired, dannyinla

              I'm sorry, but I'm just finding that sentiment to be incredibly condescending. I don't think he ever left his 'cocoon', and I don't think he ever had to, and he turned out just fine--the culture isn't necessarily the problem here. Some people don't have to travel outside their communities for their entire lives to be decent people--while for others, it seems that no amount of travelling could possibly help them.

              •  We're getting into the fundamentals (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                of human nature here.  Why are some people able to overcome their environment, where others are not?  I don't know: probably lots of reasons.  

                I do know that more people than not seem not to be able to overcome their raising much (and your friend really stands out--especially to you.  If he were in any way typical of people around there, he would not be remarkable, and the subject of this discussion.) without some sort of intervening event.  I was just speculating what it might have been in his case.

                Fundamentally (so to speak), I'm a pessimist, as you can see below.  Just seen too much of life where things didn't work out this well, a lot where things continued pretty much the same parents to kids.  We remember and write about the exceptions.

                How about doing an informal survey, as a thought exercise. How many people thereabouts match his character, and how many resemble the Bubbas in the roadhouse (of course there will be lots in between: but where in between?).  Think about it, take your time. It's 2:00, and I turn into a pumpkin at 2.

                But I'm a cute punkin'.

                Abigail, I'm sure if there is something out there, looking down on us from somewhere else in the Universe, they're wise enough to stay away from us. --Grissom

                by world traveler on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 12:17:53 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  well actually... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  It was your remark about re-enactments that got me going... he's the only person I've ever met who I know participates in those, and he's quite proud of it, too. And of course he's entirely the opposite of the character of the group that you were trying to portray with that example. So in that respect, the score is 1-0.


                  •  Re-enactments (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    pb, dwahzon, retired

                    Yeah, that bothered me too. My s.o. participated in re-enactments before we met. Nevermind that she was living in Minnesota at the time and was re-enacting the Minnesota 1st. There are plenty of historical re-enactment societies all around the country. Again, just another silly stereotype that doesn't hold up.

                  •  So I take it that we're in agreement (0+ / 0-)

                    on the other, major topics I addressed in the post.
                    Thank you, thank you very much.  Time to leave the auditorium.

                    Abigail, I'm sure if there is something out there, looking down on us from somewhere else in the Universe, they're wise enough to stay away from us. --Grissom

                    by world traveler on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 10:28:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Geeze. Where do I begin? (11+ / 0-)

    Having lived in the south for 55 years, mostly Texas, but Tennessee, North Carolina and Florida, and born of parents who were not from the south, I have always been something of an outcast.  And whereas many of my southern brothers simply cannot look themselves in the mirror and see what others see and apparently (even the most progressive) still are offended by these northern rants, I have to say that much of this rant is unfortunately true.

    I am white, but as an attorney, I represent lots of blacks and more and more hispanics, and here in Memphis the rascism is still so thick you can cut it with a knife.  It is even worse out in the suburbs and especially the rural areas.

    And Sunday morning in the south is the most segragated time of the week as the Biblebelters retreat to their safehavens and the police block traffic for the huge church services.

    And the local Air-America host was just canned because, although he was black, he was just too damned religious and could not accept homosexuals.  Unless it was a black/white issue he sounded like a Republican.

    Where this diarist gets it wrong is thatthis peckerwoodsism is not restricted to the white southern trash.  No, it is every bit as prevalent, if not moreso, in the upper class and the middle class and among the southern educated.

    I have often asked myself about why the educated south hasn't figured this out.  One thing that I think perpetuates this parochialism is the state college with in-state tuition vs. out-of-state tuition.  God I have always thought that out-of- state tuition was unconstitutional.  But what it means is that even the educated do not get to mix with other people of other states and get other points of view, because for financial reasons, they can't get an education elsewhere.  They have to remain in the parochial sespool.

    But sadly yes, much of what the diarist says is true.  Those of my southern brothers who have stated their offense need to leave here for about ten years and go get another point of view.  Go get the eductation out of state you never had.

    But as a southerner, I must say that I am quite disgusted with peckerwood attitudes all over the country, especially rural America.  It seems this brand of woodpecker gets around.

    And as for having the south now run the country -- don't forget that OHIO and Indiana put these slimeballs in office.  And it was damn close in other areas of the north (notably Pennsylvania).  And the mountain west and plains states-- they vote for these jerks in much higher percentages than the south.  Remember Darth Cheney is from Wyoming.

    •  Yes, I see it too and it's painful (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lisa, saraswati, TiaRachel, FutureNow, Do Tell

      I've spent a lot of time in the south--my mom's family is from there.  So I have travelled throughout Mississippi, Louisiana and Tennessee to say the least.  

      And you're right, the racism and narrow points of view do seem to predominate.  I have met some wonderful and decent people but still, as commenters upthread mentioned, in comparison to other parts of the US, the South fares poorly.

      Yet, in terms of race relations there is that odd thing that southern whites seem more comfortable around blacks than do their northern/western counterparts.  I'm not sure why that is.

      Ultimately I think what's happened with the South is that the more economically prosperous regions of the USA have subsidized the Southern states and allowed people to persist in their delusions.  By subsidy, I am referring to things like interstate highways and military/fed. gov. pensions, both of which redistribute money from states like CA and NY into states like MS and LA.  

      People there talk a good game about free enterprise and self-reliance--I'd like to see them live without the tax dollars from CA and NY.  It's probably a result of our governing system that tilts the balance of power in favor of the smaller states.  The House is supposed to reflect the population, but since 1911 it's been fixed at 435.  Therefore, the smaller states still have power out of proportion with the population.

      •  excellent point (0+ / 0-)

        The House's institutional role in balancing the small-state bias in the Senate has ceased working a long time ago. Gerrymandered districts mean incumbents hardly ever lose and challengers keep coming from the ideological extreme. It seems crazy, but it should be obvious that Senators are, in general, far more representative of their state than the collective House membership. The individual house members come from gerrymandered districts. At least the Senators have to be elected by the whole state.

        Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

        by Benito on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 12:04:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, it is an odd thing that southern whites (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel, Ari Mistral

        seem to be more comfortable around blacks than in other areas and I think that is one of the truly ironic vestages of slavery.  As property, blacks needed to be taken care of and mingled with etc. so I think there is this paternalistic element that still underlies race relations in the south.

        Ralph Elison's "Invisable Man" doesn't apply here the way it does elsewhere.

        But the other side of that are the vestages that blacks (or hispanics) should not have the same pay as whites and do not contribute as much to society and do not contribute their fair share to society.

        One other vestage of slavery seems to be the black family, which has never existed on a large scale since slavery.  Slavery broke up the black family and it seems the black family has never recovered.

        Most blacks here live single lives for most of their lives, the women raising the children.  A large percentage of the black population never marries at all (or only in some token fashion) and most when they get divorced never marry again.  In contrast, whites, if they get divorced, seem to link up with a mate after a short while.  

        And living alone, without support, in this day and age, is a recipe for financial disaster.  I think that contributes to the poverty in the south.

        And I would agree that the south does not appreciate the fact that it is subsidized by the rest of the country and this is especially ironic given the prevalent notion of personal responsibility.

  •  My impression of Santa Rosa Cty, FL (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lisa, pb, saraswati, dwahzon

    is that people are getting fed up with Bush.  They've been hit hard by the price of gasoline, didn't like the idea of changing social security, and now hate this war.  Maybe Santa Rosa is naturally changing as well with access to the internet which is penetrating most homes.

    Your stereotypes don't fit the Pensacola area.  How would you group the military in our area?  They have traveled and lived in different parts of the world and due to their hard drinking partying and hell-raising, the preachers don't like their lifestyle.  The beach crowd is fairly raucous and they don't like being tethered to any laws that would ban liquor by the drink in Santa Rosa.

    Lastly, the hurricanes that have struck Pensacola in the last 2 years have brought a greater sense of community and understanding.  It was the people of Pensacola who began ferrying food and water to Biloxi and Gulfport before FEMA could find the Gulf on the map last summer after Katrina passed.  This event opened people's eyes that Bush was clueless even as he did a flyby and then returned for his Rovian photo op.

    So I think we are more complex and changing than your diary suggests.  Maybe you're stuck in a time warp?

  •  I live in a neon red town (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, Ari Mistral, Do Tell

    and when I lived in the country around here I knew just what this means. So now I live in town which is a little better.

    They are not going to change. Their women get sucked into the baby and barefoot in the kitchen thing so young. Then they get left for someone else and have to go to work with no skills.

    The churches prey on them. And they are in a downward spiral and desperately need scapegoats. Right now in the medical study I am doing I see how much smarter the black women are in their jobs in many cases. And how much more together they are than the white rural women in my study. This is in Kansas BTW.

  •  North 1 South 0 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ari Mistral

    The south is a complicated area.  The women are fine and very friendly, a lot of the dudes are cool, there are some great fuckin' cities...NOLA, hotlanta, memphis.  But people are still pissed about the civil war.  I use the title of this post to annoy my friend from Miss.  when i say it, she gets red in the face and starts yapping about robert e. lee, and strom thurmond and god knows who else.  Fuck, even texas thinks they are there own country.  However, i feel that the democratic party's tendency to self-destruct has a lot to do with the lack of support in elections.  Dems and repubs are pretty much the same in terms of economic policy and that leaves cultural issues to persuade one side.  it blows my mind (as others, im sure) how ridiculous arguments are readily accepted by people in the south and other segments as fact.  the fact is, in the last prez election, a decorated Vietnam vet was made out to be a lying pansy by some slimy, lying bastards.  and he wasn't the first (Max Cleland) or will be the last (any vet dem).  the fact is we took the bullies punches and demanded civility. 2 prez elections were probably rigged and we got nothin'.  i truly believe people will vote for you if they feel you have a backbone and won't settle for bs.  good night everybody.

  •  It's not about the South. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Unless you count Indiana, Ohio, Utah, Arizona, as the South.  It's not about red-necks.  Red-necks are people who work in the sun.  You're talking about something else entirely.  Quit blaming The South.  I know some conservative Catholics who are just as bonkers as the Trinity Broadcasting crowd.

    "Yes dear. Conspiracy theories really do come true." (tuck, tuck)

    by tribalecho on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 12:51:04 AM PDT

  •  Let me explain about why the Southern (0+ / 0-)

    white man is the way he is. I am a graduate of the Univ. of Alabama(1958).I have lived the balance of my life in Northern New Jersey.I can truly say that when it comes to personal courtesy and kindness,there are no finer people than Southern folks,of both races.

    However,politically,the Southern white is a victim of the machinations of the upper class robber barons,who are worse than their Northern brethern. They have been fed a line of bullshit about race,religion and phony patriotism that have caused them to vote against their own economic interests. This has been going on since the 19th century and only in the FDR-Truman era was it reversed.And we liberals have compounded the situation by supporting "affirmative action" which became a racial and gender quota system,to the detriment of white males,by supporting Federal gun control measures which serve to play into the hands of the worst of the worst.

    We must never hate the so called "rednecks",indeed they are our potential supporters if we can only craft a truly populist message that will break then free from their robber baron masters.

  •  Bigotry (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dwahzon, Junior Bug, luckydog, Matthias

    Bigotry rarely accomplishes anything good. This diary is nothing more than a typical screed against "the other". I guess some people just have to have a perceived inferior on which to blame the woes of the world. As long as you can point to someone else as the root of all your problems, you can deny your own responsibility.

  •  Memo To Offended Southerners (6+ / 0-)

    If you are offended by this polemic rant then you should probably be a bit more active in not allowing the most regressive and racist elements amongst you be to your representatives and in effect your image to the remainder of the country who just don't get this long term hostility thing of trans-generational hatred. The southern takeover of the Republican party, the southern distortion of the Christian religion and the new front in the Civil War against America is an embarassment as well as a mockery of progressive society.

    It should bother you that you have made a laughingstock out of the rest of us.

    Throw these bastards out, reign in the radical clerics and eventually the stench will subside.

    I personally am sick and tired of seeing your disproportionate amount of political power destroy this country for everybody else.


    •  We only get one vote. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rockhound, retired

      Just like you, edenecho, we only get one vote, and we have to choose from the candidates offered.

      So, not only are peckerwoods the problem, but also lazy Southern non-activists?

      You're really scoring points here, making friends.

    •  I've lived in both places (0+ / 0-)

      I was raised in Providence, RI and live in the outer ring of Northern Virginia.  I've traveled throughout the south as an organizer for ten years and as a white guy, I was always picked to speak to the southern white males you describe here.

      I have to say there is a difference between people in some places but some of the most progressive people who have stood up to their companies in an organizing campaign and who have reached out to their black counterparts are the white males you speak of.  

      I hate to say it, but yes, therere is a peckerwood mentality, but I don't see it on the rise.  It's only recieving a lot of attention in the media because NASCAR and "values voters" seem to be the "big thing."  If anything, it's become more and more neutralized and isolated into smaller pockets, mostly in rural areas far from any population center.

      If the average citizen is guaranteed equal opportunity in the polling place, he must have equal opportunity in the market place - FDR

      by PaulVA on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 06:19:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  To be truthful (0+ / 0-)

      I will make it a point from now on to ignore anything you write.  Your rant and your comments throughout this thread illustrate that you, much like the peckerwoods you despise, have no intention of learning anything new that would tear down this fallacious world view that you've built for yourself.

      You'd rather spew hateful words.  I have no time for that.

    •  Are you mentally ill? (0+ / 0-)

      I mean it. I get the idea you're just trying to work something out of your system.

      How is any of this productive? How does any of it constitute an attempt at "winning" anything? It isn't that "oo, we southerners can't bear the awful truth." It's that you're basically ranting like a lunatic, thinking that you are taking some kind of action that weakens the people you are writing against.

      And considering what it is you've written here, I frankly find that delusional.

    •  Memo to an Offended (Non)Southerner (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Edencho, your "If you are offended by this polemic rant then you should probably be a bit more active in not allowing the most regressive and racist elements amongst you be to your representatives and in effect your image to the remainder of the country" is the kind of nonsense I get when I respond to those here who denounce all Christians based on what they see channel surfing.

      I don't have any power to make Jerry Falwell repent of his ways or to make the MSM present as "the typical Christian" someone from a mainstream church among the majority of Christians instead of Jerry Falwell.

      I imagine the Southerners among us also feel you are feeding us stones instead of bread.

    •  This troll isn't interested in anything but (0+ / 0-)


      Feel the breeze?

      Feather-weight on the way home.

  •  The elites don't care (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PaulVA, Ari Mistral

    To the financial elites who tolerate these people so as to personally profit I offer one word of advice and that is beware.When you stoke the fires of hatred in others and nurture their ignorance so as to gain you are only empowering those who one day will become powerful enough to turn on you as well. The ignorance of the red state evangelical movement only ensures one thing, that on the day that your common enemy is neutralized and YOU become the next enemy there will be no reasoning with the hordes that will be laying siege to your gated communities

    Something tells me they have planned for this.  I imagine the wealthy neocons who play their cynical, Straussian game of feigning belief in the peckerwoods' racist Gawd have this well in hand.  They know how dangerous these people are and that the whole thing could spiral into full blown theocratic fascism.  They also know that many of their own lifestyles are on the kinky side and wouldn't be compatible with Taliban America.  That's what the second home in France is for.  When and if things go completely sideways here they will take a vacation in Nice and forget to come back.  This is yet another reason why it's not so good to have vast accumulations of wealth.  The rich can play these games knowing that they are gambling with our rights and freedoms, not their own.

    As for the broader point of the diary: my view of the South is that it's a society with a hopelessly pre-modern psychodynamic centered around a heirarchal, authoritarian view of society.  Further, the Civil War never really ended but simply went into an insurgent phase that has festered for 140 years.  The insurgents were almost dealt a fatal blow in the 20th century with the Civil Rights movement and are now winning with the help of the moneyed elite which views their primitive "values" as a good way to get back the privilege that it lost in the New Deal and other 20th century reforms.  The South should have been allowed to secede.  Instead the southern cancer has metastasized everywhere now with the elites (even in North) cheering it on.  I don't really see much hope.  It will take another terrible tragedy to finally end this nonsense.

    Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

    by Event Horizon on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 05:22:59 AM PDT

  •  Sheesh (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dwahzon, caple66wood

    Let's hope no Wal-Mart shopping 'peckerwoods' see this.  They'll just vote Republican that much easier after having the stereotype of angry, self-righteous liberal reinforced.

    And is hate speech only hate speech if it's directed at a minority?

    •  Then Just Roll Over.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Do Tell

      .....and don't fight back.

      These people have always seen this as a WAR and liberals have no place in their world whatsoever.

      They openly talk about killing or imprisoning people like you and the sooner that you realize that you may have a chance at winning and therefore surviving.

      "Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is. "

      -Josey Wales

      •  it's not the rant (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        retired, Junior Bug

        If you are offended by this polemic rant then you should probably be a bit more active in not allowing the most regressive and racist elements amongst you be to your representatives and in effect your image to the remainder of the country who just don't get this long term hostility thing of trans-generational hatred. The southern takeover of the Republican party, the southern distortion of the Christian religion and the new front in the Civil War against America is an embarassment as well as a mockery of progressive society.

        It should bother you that you have made a laughingstock out of the rest of us.

        Throw these bastards out, reign in the radical clerics and eventually the stench will subside.

        I personally am sick and tired of seeing your disproportionate amount of political power destroy this country for everybody else.

        "Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is. "

        -Josey Wales

        that bothers me, it's the numbers of so-called progressives showing thier true colors of arrogant, hate-filled elitism toward a significant number of fellow americans.  

        you may believe your vitriol is constructive for the progressive cause  -after all, you have nailed it haven't you? it was a "southern take over of the republican party. not a democratic abandonment. it must be those southerners distorting your version of christianity because any rational person wouldn't dare think differently than someone like you.
        i wouldn't worry about any trans-generational hatred in the south, your elitism is well on its way to surpassing our brand of hatred for your self- righteous own.

        lastly, the only laughingstock is some jackass who thinks he knows what the south is all about because he can quote lines from a movie made in hollywood ca. as if it lends credibility to the argument.
        did they teach you that in your ivory tower oh great one?

      •  I live in rural Texas (0+ / 0-)

        They openly talk about killing or imprisoning people like you and the sooner that you realize that you may have a chance at winning and therefore surviving.

        By "openly talk," do you mean on the internet? Or do you mean nutbags on streetcorners? Because the internet and lunatics don't count.

        I've lived in Texas all my life.  I have bigoted, homophobic, Rush-listening, Fox-watching, Bush-voting, Christian fundamentalist family.  I live in a community of the same.  Edencho, I promise you, they don't want to imprison or kill either one of us, or repeal the rights of blacks or women.  

  •  I agree with the theme of your essay. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    x, TiaRachel

    I believe left unsaid but clearly argued is that white males in rural areas are preventing the application of civil rights for the LGBT community.

    But i think you are a bit off key in terms of concentrating your (necessary) fire on SOUTHERN white rural males. Need I remind you of the situation in Kansas (outside of KC), Nebraska, the Dakotas, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, etc.? Need I remind you of even in blue states such as Oregon & Washington outside of the metro areas of Portland and Seattle (check the WA & OR vote totals in these rural areas!).

    Bottom line being we are seeing the rights of the LGBT community systematically stifled by white, male, rural (and exurban), evangelical voters. But to focus your frustration in the South leaves out wide swaths of the problem elsewhere.

    •  Thank You and Noted (0+ / 0-)

      Very well put. Racism, ignorance and manipulation is not strictly a southern problem but considering that the states representing the old confederacy represent 153 electoral votes the south is the major area that I chose to address in my scathing screed.

      Thanks for the comment, I will try to address it in a future post.


      •  As I said I enjoyed the major point of your essay (0+ / 0-)

        And see your point of the electoral votes. But, I would suggest their is as much "good" diversity in the South as there is in these red areas in the Midwest and West. It is just a population issue. If 60% of these 153 electoral vote areas are peckerwoods, then that 60% carries the day. On the otehr hand if 90% of (for example) 53 electoral votes are peckerwoods, then their is a higher % of peckerwoods in those area, it's just that the population is less?

        There are Rep's like Gene Taylor (MS), John Tanner (TN), Bud Cramer (AL), Chet Edwards (TX). While they are far from stellar like Rep. Pelosi and our heroes in other parts of California and the Northeast, there are as many in rural peckerwood South as there are in rural peckerwood Midwest and Northwest.

        •  A Fine Mess Isn't It? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          The problem in general is that the left has stopped fighting in the era of the ascendancy of the DLC and are more interested in appeasing, going along to get along and deal cutting although with some theatrics by the party hacks in congress.

          Where are the principled leaders who don't just roll over and curl up in the fetal position when the right launches their vicious attacks?

          The left fights amongst themselves too much, just look at all of the outraged responses to this post. Hell they are more interested in tearing me down than in attacking the real enemy.

          The real outrage should be directed at those who are responsible for the mess that this country is in and the fish rots from the head down.

          The current Democratic leadership is as feckless as it is ineffective.

          Where are the bare knuckled brawlers that are so desperately needed to counter the fascist right?

          •  That's why I wish. (0+ / 0-)

            More of the true bare knucled brawlers in the metropolitan areas would more vocally champion the LGBT cause. WEEKLY we should hold press conferences to champion the LGBT cause! Treat it exactly as we did civil rights for African-Americans. To use a term butchered by our comedian in chief, "you are with us, or you are against us". The us being progressive who are willing to fight for the LGBT community. We need to encourage our "friends" to more vocally champion the LGBT community and drag (if need be) our so-called, self-styled "moderates" in the party by the shorthairs into championing the LGBT community as well. We are seeing that with Jon Tester, we need it from more incumbents and candidates.

            •  We are singing from the same hymnal ! (0+ / 0-)

              And another problem is that the animosity toward the LGBT cause is another area where the Republicans are masterful at mobilizing their base to attack and the army of the angry is using these mega-churches as their garrisons. I can't believe some of the vile anti-gay rhetoric that is spewed by these so called 'Christians'.  

              I'm tellin' you these bastards are following the Nazi playbook to the letter, first by demonizing and marginalizing the gay people who they would love to eradicate and then moving on to liberals in general and finally to all dissenters. There is a great quote out there by Reverend Niemoller who was in Germany in that era that goes something along the lines of:

              First they came for the Jews
              and I did not speak out
              because I was not a Jew.
              Then they came for the Communists
              and I did not speak out
              because I was not a Communist.
              Then they came for the trade unionists
              and I did not speak out
              because I was not a trade unionist.
              Then they came for me
              and there was no one left
              to speak out for me.

              People had better wake up in a hurry, the only way to stop this red tide of hatred is to organize and show solidarity.

              If there were any spine in the Democrats they would renounce the corporate whores of the DLC and start dragging the party left as quickly as possible.

              The 'left' now is what was slightly right of center twenty five years ago.

              That is how far that the poliical spectrum has been dragged towards fascism.

              •  It's ignorance, plain and simple. (0+ / 0-)

                I rhetorically ask, do these yahoos know anyone in the LGBT community, do they watch television and movies that show the LGBT community in a positive (and accurate) light? Do these read thoughtful editorials (much less!!)? Are they aware of the corporate LGBT diversity policies in Fortune 500 companies across this country where despite some of the evil things corproations do they 'get it' on LGBT issues? Do they embrace the advantages FOR EVERYONE of diversity? I get the sense these yahoos see the LGBT community as being defined solely by various sexual acts and partners. As we know, it is about so much more than that.
                I'll say it again, this is why I love Jon Tester so much. He could be a real answer to the ignorant divide that separates these peckerwoods from embracing full civil rights for the LGBT community. As the junior Senator from Montana, rest assured Sen. Tester will fight for LGBT rights with every ounce of his being. I know that for a fact, Markos has vouched for him if you don't want to take my word for it.
                If they didn't anger me so much, I'd feel sad for these backwoods ignoramuses who fail to see the light. By fully embracing the LGBT community, do they not realize how their own lives would be enriched? Sadly, it is obvious that they do not.

                •  Is this the way (0+ / 0-)

                  to educate people about it, then?

                  I really have an issue, as is said in "The American President," with people who claim to love America but clearly can't stand Americans.

                  Diversity is a tough word, not only because it refers to the LGBT community, which has been and is contually being kept down by the establishment of this country.  Diversity's tough because it also, believe it or not, has to include those "yahoos" as well.

                  As Barack Obama said:

                  The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.

                  Allowing yourself to go down the road, of applying derogatory terms to people who are different, of thinking that you know someone without ever meeting them - that's what bigots do.  If we want to spread the Gospel of Diversity, we cannot do so in this manner.

              •  P.S. (0+ / 0-)

                Rev. Niemoller's words are as accurate today as they were decades ago.

                As with the Jews, Communists, unionists so go African-Americans, women, the LGBT community. Their is absolutely no difference between or within these groups.

                •  Time to Seize the Initiative (0+ / 0-)

                  It's time to start punching back, most importantly of all is to gain control of the discourse. This is first and foremost an information war and we have been losing. LGBT's, Blacks, Hispanics, Immigrants and the economically disenfranchised need to start fighting back and steering the debate towards the real war:

                  THE CLASS WAR

                  All of the divisiveness is only to keep us at each other's throats and occupied while the looting of the treasury, the bleeding of our nation's resources and the evisceration of our constitutional rights are taking place.

  •  I've seen both sides. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I've been on the wrong end of a rant by  a few of these miserable excuses for a human being.  I'm a scientist and come from northern Illinois.  That's enough to make me damned in every sense of the word to these people.  But I've encountered them not just in the Deep South, but in Ohio, too.  Ain't JUST a Southern phenomenon.

    But I've also known a few folks from Tennessee that I'm convinced are God's gift to humanity.  One, for example, a fellow from Chattanooga who's an ex-hippie and is very genteel and laid back.  His neighbors made me a bit nervous; they raise horses, grew up in rural Tennessee and don't have an outward ounce of "city sophistication" about them.  But when I told Bud and Cheryl what I do for a living -- in non-patronizing, nontechnical terms -- they were very curious, and enjoyed it so much they gave me a free riding lesson. :)  They also are "true conservatives" -- didn't hear one Rush Limbaugh talking point issue from them, and they strongly disliked what Bush was doing to the government and the land.

    I do wish they were in the majority down there, but I learned never judge a book by it's cover.

  •  Don't speak in general terms (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, dwahzon

    I'm a southern white male.  I voted for Kerry.  No one on this site would appreciate someone speaking of African_Americans negatively in general terms so please don't do it to me.  This kind of thing only hurts the left in geneneral and Dems in particular.  We have a hard enough time down here without posts like this provoking the people we are trying to convert.

    •  Recognized and Acknowledged (0+ / 0-)

      Thank you for your comment and advice. If you can convert those people more power to you. As for your comment about this sort of thing hurting Dems there is nothing worse than the self inflicted wounds that they themselves made when choosing to lie down with corporate whores and turn their back on the working class. I could actually make a pretty persuasive argument that their abandonment of a commitment to economic equality, their lack of support for unions and their willingness to sign off on destructive trade pacts only perpetuates the hatred and ignorance that I attacked in the post.

      If you have a chance then pick up a book called 'Homeland' by Dale Maharidge, it's a great read and looks at the underlying current of hostility and the resultant scapegoating in George W. Bush's post 9/11 Amerika.

      Anyway, I am not trying to make your job more difficult and I feel badly for the rational ones who are trapped in red state hell.


  •  An army of Gomers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Do Tell

    Karl Rove realized a long time ago that if you can rally the 'gomers', who can of course be defined as peckerwoods except they live everywhere in this country, you can win elections.

    When you can pick single-issue, easy for gomer to understand and hate issues, you can get enough votes to keep the conservative elite in power.  No matter that these elite do nothing to make the gomer-army's life better and are systematically dismantling our Constitution.  That's all part of the plan.  It's the sheer numbers of voters that matter.

    While I generally agree with your Peckerwood rant, I would simply state that Gomer is everywhere and as long as the conservative elite are in power, the chasm between the haves & the have nots will continue to grow and expand the army.  

    This is the unspoken Rovian design for this country.     Yes, he's quite the architect...

    The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms. William O. Douglas

    by pattisigh on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 06:14:15 AM PDT

  •  have you ever been here?? (0+ / 0-)
    •  Been Where? (0+ / 0-)

      If you are referring to the south then yes I used to live there at one time. I was completely amazed at the amount of racism and anger that the majority of the people that I knew had.... and this was twenty years ago before the GOP and Karl Rove started throwing gasoline on the fire. While I fail to acknowledge the good things that was the point of the entire rant, I do like most southern cooking but the elephant ears, fried okra and grits just don't do it for me.

      Seriously though, the behavior of those who have the most influence in that region specifically the radical clerics in the mega-churches that serve as adjuncts for the GOP represent a growing danger to everybody. I have read what these people write and believe me that they are very serious and very specific about eliminating any who are not like them with extreme prejudice.


  •  Ann Coulter is alive and well on DailyKos (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joy, andydoubtless, Matthias

    This is one of the most vicious, racist, classist diatribes I've read lately.  Edencho is as eaten up with contempt for the other As Ann Coulter, and the comments section show he is not alone on this list.  Anyone who applied this rhetorical style to Jewish Americans, gay Americans, or African Americans would be unwelcome here, but it is clear from the comments that bigotry is just fine on DailyKos if it's bigotry toward the right kind of people.

    My grandfather was an illiterate Appalachian blacksmith. Most of his children died of natural causes in infancy or childhood.  Not a single one of you smug, middle-class urban guys has the right to claim any moral superiority to him.

    And it's also clear thay my thirty years in the peace movement don't make me respected around here.

    caple66wood, blogging at Apophenia

    •  dare i say (0+ / 0-)


      This is one of the most vicious, racist, classist diatribes I've read lately. And it's also clear thay my thirty years in the peace movement don't make me respected around here.

    •  Cool! Do you want to pre-order my book? (0+ / 0-)

      Thanks for the comment and your input.

      Hell, with as much outrage over here over free speech you would think that I was posting on FREEP or something.

      With all due respect to your peace movement credentials it is exactly that sort of attitude that results in this side getting their heads kicked in every day by the right-wingers.

      The Daily Tip: Suck it up and start playing some 'smashmouth' ball and quit whining about decorum and dirty pool.

      You may find fighting back for a change to be rewarding.

      "I had a compulsion to do it"
      -Ed Gein

      •  Ethnic prejudice is ethic prejusice (0+ / 0-)

        I don't object to your freedom of speech but to your bigotry.  If you knew very much about the people you are writing about, you would know that redneck is the same kind of slur as kike or wop or faggot.  Would you accuse a Jewish American of whining if he/she complained about this kind of diatribe?

        caple66wood, blogging at Apophenia

        •  Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TiaRachel, FutureNow

          Having lived in the south for 55 years, I can tell you that redneck is not the equivalent of any of the racist terms you use.

          And that is the problem in a nutshell.  Even progressives in the south can't see this simple thing.  Damn some of us are so blind as to who we are.

          •  Here's the difference. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Being redneck is a choice.  These others are not, except for the religious choices.

          •  Class, ethnicity, and prejudice (0+ / 0-)

            Redneck refers to social class as much as it does to ethnicity. Originally it referred to poor rural people who worked outdoors in the sun.  Upper-middle class southerners -- including those who make believe they are liberals -- use it as a term for the white working class.

            As used by endenco, it most certainly is an ethnic slur.

            •  Hit Pause On Your Knee-Jerk Reaction (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              If you would bother to read the fucking post you would see that I am denouncing racists and bigots. Being an ignorant 'peckerwood' is a choice, every person has a free will and the ability to choose between right and wrong and being stupid enough to be misled is NOT an excuse for this type of hatred. Don't you dare accuse me of bigotry, my hostility is directed towards the white supremacists and false Christians in a particular geographic area.

              •  Whatever (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                You're generalizing a whole region of people.  That's not lashing out against bigotry - it's participating in it.

                The only way to fight racism is to find where it is, and fight it on its turf, and it seems to me like you're never lived in a big northern city (st louis, detroit, LA, Chicago) if you think that "denouncing racists and bigots" is what you're doing when you're making fun of southerners and calling everyone below Mason Dixon a bigot.

                Sorry, but on this, you are wrong.  stop getting so pissed off when someone points that out.  You're very wrong, and frankly, very offensive - if you act like a bigot when you lash out agaisnt bigotry, are you really solving any problems?

              •  Class, ethnicity, and self-congratulation (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                > my hostility is directed towards the white supremacists and false Christians

                No, your hostility is directed toward working-class white southerners as a group.  People you consider beneath you.

      •  smash ball (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        You want to play smash ball? You obviously have no fucking clue about what it means to grow up poor. None. You are exactly the same as the wingnut fascists you claim to oppose. You are a rascist, and I would treat you with the exact same contempt that I would any group of cowardly white men who sneer and molest those who are weaker than themselves. If you think people like me are in any way intimidated by elitists such as yourself, think again. I've stood down a yardful of TX rednecks with a baseball bat who were trying to get at my little sister. I'm pretty sure I can handle the high school sarcasm of some elitist punk who has never seen a trailer park.

        end corporate rule. restore democracy.

        by jaskot on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:52:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  California, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, Do Tell

    I used to live in central Illinois at one time or another.

    Having studied English and English speech patterns years ago, I found that there are two migration paths into Illinois, one from the Northern states to the east, such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and so on, and another from Southern states to the southeast, such as Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee. Fortunately for us in Illinois, Lincoln was one of the members of that southern migration into Illinois from Kentucky.

    We learned that there is a line that existed from Quincy through Springfield to Champaign, Decatur, and Danville (home of Dick Van Dyke, btw). Along that line are turbulent confluences of both migrations where migrants from the north could live across the street or next door to migrants from the south.

    Those migration paths are marked by accent and word usage, such as in the terms for a shopping container, bag (N) and sack or poke (S), and soda (N) and pop (S). The northern and southern accents are part of the interesting cultural blend of long-time residents of central Illinois. In particular, in smaller towns along railroads and major secondary roads, the accents and word usage are remarkably similar to what one would expect in southern states. Whereas in the cities of central Illinois the people who settled there were often northerners, the people who settled in the small towns were southerners. Hence, a short drive from a major city to a small town can represent a cultural shift of hundreds of miles south for an unsuspecting Northerner such as myself.

    As a descendent of the migrants from the north in Chicago, I mixed with some of these migrants from the south. Some of them were certainly of the peckerwood variety, and I sure saw more Stars and Bars Confederate Battle Flags than I think I should have in the fair state of Illinois.

    Therefore, keep in mind that while southern racist white male supremists are often thought of as being only below the Mason Dixon line, by golly, they are in our midst. They cannot be persuaded, and trying to persuade them puts you at risk of vandalism or personal harm.

    Mind you, this does not refer to all Southerners (God, no!!!), but there are a significant segment of Neo-Confederate Americans who are or act like Peckerwoods and they can be next door or across the street from you. Be very careful.

    The Confederate Flag is a flag of traitors, a symbol of those who "cut and run" from freedom and liberty of the United States of America, to the ignorant backwater culture of the Confederate States of America. I can and would burn the Stars and Bars, but while I can burn the Stars and Stripes, I would never do so.


  •  The proof of the pudding (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, FutureNow

    While it is true that right wing neanderthals 9like the KKK) can be found all over, the point of the diary seems to be that they are often concentrated - for specific, historical reasons - in particular locations.

    I don't necessarily want to jump all over the South, but take a cold hard look at the Southern Baptist Convention - the religion of Falwell, Tom DeLay, Cochran, Lott, Lindsay Graham. This is concentrated in the South and its effects are extremely regressive and intolerant. And there are 16 million Southern Baptists, controlled by a conservative faction. And consider why so many members of the U.S. Senate from the U.S. South are right wing neanderthals; what are those from the South, who are complaining of being negatively stereotyped, doing to reverse this trend?

    •  if you beat (0+ / 0-)

      your child it's likely he will beat his children. likewise, being a bigot will only propagate bigotry. how is this bigoted rant helping the progressive cause in the south? how does this create unity in a party that desperately needs southern victories?  many of the same people in the south who voted for clinton also voted for bush. why is that do you suppose?

  •  Good Southerners... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, Do Tell

    "...there is an excellent diary by President Carter near the top of the recommended list. I know far more people in the South that are like him than the people described in this diary."

    by Blue Southerner on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:19:53 AM PDT

    There is a vast majority of Southerns and people who identify as Southerners who are basically OK people. However, that does not mean that the small, vocal, and obstinate segment of [southern] Peckerwood culture is to be reviled and objected to. but if you ever have:

    • Put a Stars and Bars on your car or house.
    • Voted for a person who used the Stars and Bars.
    • Allowed a peckerwood to win an racial argument.
    • Participated in a program of racial/GLBT discrimination.
    • Not spoke up when someone was discriminated against.
    • Insulted a person of color or GLBT person.
    • Voted for G. W. Bush, or any of his neocon, theocon or neonazi candidates.
    • Wore a KKK robe or wanted to.
    • Agreed with Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, etc., etc.
    • Shopped at Walmart when you COULD have patronized a local entrepreneur's business....

    Then you are a goddamned peckerwood. K?


  •  Breath taking in ignorance and bigotry (5+ / 0-)

    Kudos for managing to cram so many tired old recycled sterotypes and false urban legends into one post. Double kudos for managing to do it while under a red haze of pulsating anger.

    I could almost believe this post was a parody of the way 'out of touch liberals' look down on, despise, and completely misunderstand the enormous portions of our country lying in the south and west.  This reads more like someones vicious caricaturing of a west/east coast progressive than a reasoned diary by a kossack.

    If I was worried this was going to be taken seriously instead of seen for the wild hate filled invective it is, I'd be inclined to go through and meticulously debunk most of your points.

    I've lived in the South, though no longer, and suffice it to say you are way off base. I'm sure it's tempting to blame every single vice afflicting our nation on Southerners and southerners alone, but let's try to avoid being such simplistic dunderheads, shall we?

    "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth." -- JFK

    by Tryptophan on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 07:10:19 AM PDT

    •  At least you partially got the point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Do Tell

      It is filled with wild invective and stereotypes but that is the least you got that. It's a fucking polemic for god's sake!

      That being said you still can't ignore the simple fact that southern ignorance, hostility and bigotry have been so successfully harnassed by the Republican party to build a movement to roll back every bit of progress that has been made over the past century.

      Thanks for your offer to take the time to debunk every point that I make although I would strongly suggest that you concentrate your efforts on fighting the true enemy instead of tilting at my little windmill.


      •  Southerners are no more bigoted than elsewhere (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Yes, they tend to be more ignorant (uneducated) but they tend to be less hostile. Many of the southerners I've met have been among the most earnest, warm hearted, friendly and hospitable people I've met. Certainly, on average, more than where I live now. Sometimes I'm surprised by gaps in their knowledge due to a faulty education, but their ignorance isn't willful, for crying out loud, they are very open to hearing more.

        You are fundamentally wrong. I'm sure it's tempting to raise your fist and say "Damn the South! Those white trash hobos are all that's wrong with the country! I seethe with righteous moral indignation!" but let's try to be adults here. Your analysis is not only wildly inaccurate, but counter productive to taking back this nation.

        So what good is this diary?

        "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth." -- JFK

        by Tryptophan on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 07:24:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  And unlike the right (0+ / 0-)
        We emphatically and publicly disavow the lunatic ravings of our Ann Coulters.
  •  I was going to respond to this last night... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...but decided to sleep on it because my anger after reading it was so overwhelming.

    The Christian bashing here coupled with the South bashing leads me to believe I need to find a new political home online. There are a lot of great, diverse opinions on this site and certainly a lot of kossacks doing great work to advance progressive causes, but how every one of these rants makes it to the front page leads me to believe that maybe the unspoken truth here is y'all really do feel you'd be better off without southerners.

    Maybe you're right.

    •  I hope the comments (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      have reassured you that this kind of hate is not well-tolerated.  We welcome everyone here; we need you.

    •  Christianist vs. Christian vs. Jesus (as close... (0+ / 0-)

      as you can find the Real Jesus in the Bible).


      I have to tell you, for a while I was taken in by the theocon hijacking of Christians. I started to do a little research in this. I think that you might be refreshed by the width and breath of Christian thought that exists outside of the mainstream thought.

      But let me get to the point.

      • Many evangelicals do not consider Catholics (or Anglicans, or even perhaps other mainstreamers) to be Christian. Please Identify yourself on this.
      • Many nominal Christians put certain limits on their notion of inclusiveness that are not at all based in the words (or the supposed words) of Jesus, and instead reach back into the Old Testament for their hatred and excuses. Please Identify yourself on this.
      • Jesus was fiercely opposed to the views and practices of Pharisees. In a way, many conservative Christians, ALL Christianists and RaptureReichists share the same obey-the-rules-except-when-I-say-different point of view. Please Identify yourself on this.
      • Jesus was a liberal in his era, as opposed to most conservative views, and in our era as well. Jesus was opposed to those who would misuse the Law and mistreat God's Children (i.e., the poor and non-elite). Please Identify yourself on this.

      So, before you start yelling about "bashing" and so on, please consider what Jesus himself thought was necessary to create change in a bigoted and a sorry-ass society of so-called chosen people.



    •  My problem is more with the Evangelicals... (0+ / 0-) matter their locale.

      I'd like to see the following posted in many places, and see what they think.

      "If your Jesus was to return today, he'd be called a long-haired hippie sandal-wearing liberal. After all, he preferred to be among the poor and sick, not the rich."

      "If he took up his acts if written, he'd be called a liberal and scoffed at. If he turned the moneychangers out of the temple, he'd be called a Terrorist and sent off to Guantanmo without representation."

      Dare them to argue with that.

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

      by Loboguara on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 10:08:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No offense to true Christians meant (0+ / 0-)

      My comments were directed at the ones whose religion has been twisted to condone the dropping of napalm on brown-skinned children and allowing the moneychangers to chase him out of the temple.

      There is nothing remotely Christian about the Republican politicization and mobilization of the churches to tear down the wall between church and state.

      If I caused you to miss any sleep I apologize. True adherents to the teachings of Jesus Christ are tolerant, merciful and full of dignity unlike the goats amongst sheep who distort the message for their own vile agenda.

  •  The irony is almost funny- (4+ / 0-)

    Hate-filled ignorance decrying hate-filled ignorance.

    Why don't you go google presidential votes by county, click on the USA Today link, and come back and talk to us about what part of the country is all-Bush, all the time.

    And apologize to my 94 year old great-aunt Grace who sat with me in a lawn chair under a shade tree in the aftermath of Katrina and asked "Has the lying bastard come for a photo op" when Air Force One flew over.

    You paint with a mighty big brush there- you might want to take a look in the mirror.

  •  Another Response from the South (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loboguara, caple66wood

    As a progressive who lives in South Carolina, I would like to make a few quick points about the rant on the South.

    1. If racism is still alive in the South (and it certainly is), one of its biggest symptoms is stereotyping.  To stereotype all lower-income Southern males as the author does is not going to help progressives gain their support.  It is also my experience that the author wrong when he focuses on racism and sexism as the key to this group.  I have found that it is their religion and their faith, and the fact that Democrats are preceived as being agnostic to issues of faith.
    1. The attitude the author displays is the same as that of Howard Dean during the 2004 campaign when he talked about getting the votes of Southern males who have pick-up trucks, gunracks, and fly the Confederate Flag.  Of course Dean is now running the DNC, and is not doing a great job.  If the Southern candidate, Don Fowler Jr. had been selected, the Democrats might actually be making gains in the South.
    1.  The author is correct when he says that the economic interests of low-income Southerners is best represented by the Democrats.  We might actually be able to gain some of their support if we did not feel the need to insult them.
    1. Finally, since 1960 the only time the Democrats have won a presidential election is when a candidate from the South was nominated.  Most recently Clinton/Gore, with a DNC led by Don Fowler Sr.  It is nice to see that KOS gets this with his support of a moderate southern candidate-Mark Warner.

    While I am sure the author uses extreme language to entertain, and to make a point, his language does represent one of the big reasons Democrats do so poorly in the South.  We are preceived as being elitist, anti-religion, and totally out of touch with what the modern South actually looks like.
    Until we change this preception we are doomed to be a party that can only be competitive in a relatively small part of the country.  This is not a winning formula.

    •  So do you suggest another succession? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TiaRachel, FutureNow

      Seems like it to me.  If you can not look in the mirror (55 years of being a southerner, thank you) and see that the south, more than any other area has not gotten over the civil war, then you are part of the problem.

      It seems to me that people in the south have never cometo terms with the fact that their ancestors were wrong.  Why can't we say to ourselves, the north was right we were wrong.  It is us who need to change not them.

      The south refuses to admit its attitudes were wrong and continue to be wrong and we puff our chest every time someone points it out.

      I remember a college prof who used to quote a poet/philosopher:  "Go my children, go to school, go to learn, go to unlearn."

      We just refuse to unlearn.  And then when we are told that, rather than unlearn, we just fire back at teh messenger.

      •  response to another succession (0+ / 0-)

        I have no idea where you got that idea from what I wrote.  I did not see anything in my response that inicated that I was supporting the South's position in the Civil War.  To be clear, what I said was that

        1. negative stereotyping is wrong.
        1. Democrats struggle in the South because of the perception we do not respect people of faith.
        1. Insulting Southerners is not a way to get their vote.
        1. Democrats have been more successful nationally when we run southern candidates and especially recently when the party was led by Don Fowler.

        (Also that his son should be the new DNC chair, not Howard Dean)

        Also, has the Democratic Party apologized for being on the wrong side of the Civil War.  Last time I looked Lincoln was a Republican.

        •  He is not insulting you (0+ / 0-)

          And that is what you fail to understand.

          When you attack the messenger, rather than the message, which is essentially that we still fail to understand that it is we who were wrong, still are wrong, the rsponse should not be one of insult.

          The response should be, how am I going to unlearn the wrong that I have learned?  Instead the response from nearly all souther posters is that I have done no wrong, how dare you?

          •  I am done (0+ / 0-)

            It is funny how you assume I am a life long southerner.  I am not.  I, like many in the new south, migrated here.  I teach my students all the time about the position you take on the civil war (pretty hard to do in this part of the country)-so I will say once again this is not the point I am trying to make.  If it is the point you are trying to make that is your position.  The point I am making is that stereotyping is wrong.  That southern leadership in our party has been linked with success over the last 45 years.  And that the perception that Democrats don't respect faith is what is hurting us the most in the south.  Please read what my point is.  It has nothing to do with the point you are making.  Please find someone else who discussing your topic- I am not.

  •  recently moved (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Geronimo, FutureNow, Do Tell

    The beach and the weather down here (coastal carolina) have not disappointed.  As to the politics of the locals, you underestimate their closeminded stupidity.  They not only scoff at Darwin, they boast that the world is literally 6000 years old.  Incest is not repulsive, just boys being boys.  And these are college educated people!

  •  Laughter was heard from on high... (0+ / 0-)

    As a European, who is perhaps able to look at this in-fighting with a little more distance, I find it amusing to watch you bashing each other. Haven't any of you realised, you are doing exactly what Bush and his cronies want: fighting each other instead of the real enemy? The real enemy is the present government of the USA, which is trying to turn your country into a personal slave ranch...

    •  You're not winning any friends like that... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Oh, I'm a EUROPEAN, so I'll look down on all you squabbling Americans and be amused! Ha ha!

      I welcome the constructive comments of people from anywhere in the world. But if someone states that they're "amused" by us, I have one thing to say.

      Butt out. You have your own issues and your own Bush-bootlicking puppydogs of leaders and utterly dysfuctional governments you should be worried about.

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

      by Loboguara on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:53:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He may be a Euro....But He is Right ! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Xenophobia is also exactly what the Bush fascists want, look at all of the Mexican bashing now. Give Europeans their due and their fair share of respect, they are from much older societies than we are and have gone through similar transformations as we are going through. We could learn much from their history of religious wars,class wars,  persecution, oppression and ethnic hatred.

        I will go so far as to say that it is the very ignorance of history that has led us to the precipice of the abyss on which we are now teetering.

      •  I'm an American veteran... (0+ / 0-)

        Born in Europe, a Roman of Rome, and not conflicted about it.

        Why don't we all learn to get along? Diversity is great!

    •  Certainly we realize we are bashing each other (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Don't you bash each other in Europe?

      Perhaps to Europeans, they see the USA as a "unified" country.  Truth be told, it is not nearly as unified as we might project.  We had a civil war 130 years ago and as one poster explained it, we've had an insurgency ever since.  It smoulders all the time.

      What many of us wonder is: "Will we continue to have a United States?"  The USSR broke up.  We could too.

  •  This sort of thing is meant to get votes? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joy, caple66wood

    What would any resident of the deep south reading this think the supposed representatives of the Democrats think of them?

    And who, then, would they be more likely to vote for? Someone who embraces them, or someone backed by a group that tells them that their entire region, culture and ancestry is garbage?

    Stereotypes never win the hearts of those whom they're aimed at.

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

    by Loboguara on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 08:48:38 AM PDT

  •  Not at all how I feel, never (0+ / 0-)

    met anybody who fits this description, but I have met   a lot of intolerant lefties who basically couldn't accomplish a damned thing that required more than one person to do, because they could never agree with anyone other then themselves.

    It would not be difficult mein Fuhrer! Nuclear reactors could, heh... I'm sorry. Mr. President.

    by Cartoon Peril on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:05:16 AM PDT

  •  States Of Consciousness (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It would have been better to aim directly at the kind of consciousness which perpetuates the sort of mentality you were describing.  

    Instead, you personalized it into an extended ad hominem, and as much as I want to see all these bigoted and ignorant perspectives swept out of our culture and our country -- as angry as I get at the people who exercise it as naturally as breathing -- I can't agree with that method.

    Someone once made the observation that anywhere is about two weeks' worth of food away from a revolution.  I don't think that America is close to a civil war; not by a long chalk. Some adding their two cents' here talk about how angry they are, how they want to destroy fascism (and, presumably, the people who embody it). Others say this is a slur on people in and from the South, and they'd better remember who owns the guns and knows how to use them (and, presumably, use them on liberals). And that's all useless talk.

    Let me explain something: We are all in the same boat. We -- 99% of the people who come to Kos -- all of us, are the ones who do the working, and living, and fighting and dying in this country. And when the trouble comes -- and it will; you can feel it in the air like a summer thunderstorm -- we are all going to have nothing but each other.

    The greatest challenge America faces isn't an issue; it's the state of mind this diary describes. It's not about cooperation; it's about dominance. It isn't about Democracy and collective action, it's about separateness and exploitation. It isn't about the tenets of real Christianity; it's about power and oligarchy (the 'christianity' of the Robertsons and Reeds and Dobsons, which is closer to Father Coughlin and Goebbels than the teachings of Christ).

    And if we can't defeat this kind of consciousness, we're finished as a nation. The end of the 'Great Experiment'. Everything people like all of us fought and died for over two hundred-plus years -- that'll be finished. Unless we recognize our own collective humanity and act from it, we'll be a few paragraphs in a future history text: Left, Right; Cracker or Yankee.

    And, people like the Bushes and Cheneys, the Robertsons, the Perles and Kristoffs and Ledeens, the corporate shills, want us divided. Their own ignorance and bigotry considers the rest of us to be rubes, consumer cattle, and cannon fodder.

    One half of my family produced a Confederate general (Hugh Nelson, fast with his fists and a poor card player), and my great-grandfather was dismounted infantry in the 1st North Carolina cavalry, from age seventeen fighting in every major action of the Army of Northern Virginia. I grew up learning one perspective on what it meant to be a person of the South, and it didn't resemble the caricature drawn in this piece. One thing I did learn is that ignorance and bigotry -- being a peckerwood -- is universal. I believe this piece, on one level, proves that, and handily.

    Grafted on to that idea, later, was the truth that ignorance and bigotry can be organized, herded into polling booths and taught to vote for whom they're told. It can be surprising, though, that some of those same people -- once they understand they're in the soup along with people they've been taught are the enemy; once they realize they're being led by people even more bigoted and ignorant than themselves -- how that realization can change minds.
    This is what we have to do, and I believe it, seriously -- if it takes another twenty years. (One problem is, we may not have that kind of time.)

    However -- telling people whose minds and hearts need to be opened that they're idiots, Wal-Mart  cartoon yokels, is utterly the wrong thing to do.  It's as ignorant and bigoted as the mentality it seeks to criticize.

    •  Eloquent and Well Written but... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Do Tell

      Had I worded it differently so as to seriously examine:

      "the consciousness which perpetuates the sort of mentality you were describing"  

      as you put it just how effective at creating debate and conversation would it have been?

      By utilizing a vicious and sardonic diatribe to describe this very serious issue of southern racism, social inequality, festering resentment and the exploitation of religion along with the GOP's harnassing of it for political power I have gotten to this point 200+ responses.

      Bombast and outrage gets attention. It provokes emotions and it sells. If you learn anything from the Republicans you should understand this and utilize it to the utmost. If this sort of labelling that I engage in ever results in creating shame amongst some moderates who cast their lot with the yahoos and drives them away from the GOP perpetual anger machine or even alienates them to the point where they don't vote it is a good thing is it not?

      As far as the people who I refer to you as 'peckerwoods' you will never get their support, they may waver and waffle but come election time the GOP operatives will be back in their churches to engage in their standard demagoguery and incite them to go out and vote against their own self interests and tighten the fascist garotte aound the rest of our necks. Thinking that you are going to change these people is as delusional as it is idealistic. Miracles are for fools and suckers.

      Levelling the playing field is as essential as getting damn mean as hell and hitting back. I am tired of losing incrementally.

      I am right there with the rest of you when the time comes and the shit does hit the fan which it inevitably will.

      •  Racism isn't just Southern, of course. (0+ / 0-)

        There are many areas of the country, including parts of the Northeast, where the population is all but entirely pale in complexion.

        Where yes, the pullovers by the police for "driving while black" occur.

        "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

        by Loboguara on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 10:04:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Divided We Fell (0+ / 0-)

          Allowing these bastards to pit us against each other based on color or sexual preference while robbing us of our futures and our liberties was a grave mistake.

          It's time to stop taking the bait and unite in order to expose the motherfuckers as what they are!

          Time for a counter-revolution against the fascists who have stolen our country, rig our elections, sell our assets to foreigners, cancel our insurance policies, gouge us on energy prices, spew propaganda and destroy our public schools.

          Enough Already! November 2006....Take It Back!

      •  Great diary, glad it was saved. n/t (0+ / 0-)
      •  Nope (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Thinking that you are going to change these people is as delusional as it is idealistic.

        Well, to paraphrase Dietrich Bonhoffer, either everyone is eligible for salvation, or no one is.

  •  us v them (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If I walk into a room with 57 men and 43 women, is that a room full of men? Should I not bother delivering my message because it is intended for women? If I don't like a group decision by the room, can I blame it on "men"?

    What if the kind of scolding and posturing that flows from the comment turns off approx. 5% of the population of the south and makes them not vote or vote repub? Wouldn't you like to have that 5% in the next election?

  •  Peckerwoods are everywhere... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    True, the term was first used to describe a certain class of Southerner, but today it could be used to describe those whose ideology and resistance to change still prevail.

    The Peckerwood mentality still exists, but is not limited geographically. If one uses the term loosely, it describes the voting habits of the majority of the US of A. Just look at the electoral maps, in which the heartland and south are Republican strongholds.

    It was a true touch of Rovian genius to play the faith card as a last gasp measure. That and poll-fixing, but I digress. Play to these people's weaknesses and core values, and they will go for your BS. You won't find them badmouthing the government, even in the face of irrefutable evidence of perfidy. They are like cattle, willing to walk calmly toward their own doom.

    Don't blame me, I voted for Bill and Opus.

    by Trim Your Bush on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:32:13 AM PDT

  •  Posted as independent post... (0+ / 0-)

    Many Peckerwoods are nominal Christians, and often get taken in by the Christianist vocal majority. What we are attacking here is the mistaken notion that self-identification as a Christian somehow saves a person from peckerwoodishness. Nope. I responded to Baxter, who was all bent outa shape about some comments about Christianism, among other things. If you don't understand Jesus and his blue rage at Pharisees and their program, you will never understand what this diary was all about.

    • Many evangelicals do not consider Catholics (or Anglicans, or even perhaps other mainstreamers) to be Christian.
    • Many nominal Christians put certain limits on their notion of inclusiveness that are not at all based in the words (or the supposed words) of Jesus, and instead reach back into the Old Testament for their hatred and excuses.
    • Jesus was fiercely opposed to the views and practices of Pharisees. In a way, many conservative Christians, ALL Christianists and RaptureReichists share the same obey-the-rules-except-when-I-say-different point of view.
    • Jesus was a liberal in his era, as opposed to most conservative views, and in our era as well. Jesus was opposed to those who would misuse the Law and mistreat God's Children (i.e., the poor and non-elite).

    So, before you self-victimized "Southerners" start yelling about "bashing" and so on, please consider what Jesus himself thought was necessary to create change in a bigoted and a sorry-ass society of so-called chosen people.


  •  Total Bull (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    That diatribe was as fact-free and hate-filled as the worst ravings of Ann Coulter and as pulled-out-of-ass made-up as one of David Brooks's columns. Congratulations, this is a perfect example of the "unhinged moonbat hatred" the wingnuts constantly accuse us of. Nice going.

    •  Wanna Preorder A Book Too? (0+ / 0-)

      You certainly need some kind of a new approach, the one that you've been using for the last ten years or so sucks. Assume the fetal position, it's easier to lick the king's boots from there.

  •  Let's try a case study (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FutureNow, Rational Treehugger

    Let’s try a quick case study.

    Mississippi, South Carolina and Georgia are three states that have recently flown the Confederate flag and/or incorporated the Confederate flag into their state flag. If you live in one of these states, your government thus did this on your behalf, whether you wanted them to or not.

    Some facts then about these states, starting here with Mississippi:


    *approximately 60% white and 37% black

    *A series of increasingly restrictive racial segregation laws enacted during the first part of the 20th century resulted in the emigration of almost half a million people, three-quarters of them black, in the 1940s.

    *Mississippi did not vote to ratify the 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, until 1995.

    *ranks as the poorest state, with a per capita income of $23,466, (51st in the nation below Washington DC)

    *Mississippi had sodomy law until it was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court on June 26, 2003, as a result of the Court’s decision in Lawrence v. Texas, No. 02-102 (U.S. June 26, 2003).the city council in Gulfport, Miss., passed a resolution condemning the U.S. Supreme Court for striking down sodomy laws,

    *Mississippi passed  legislation in 1980 that would ban gay and lesbian couples from adopting children, and -- in an unprecedented, sweeping provision -- it would also forbid the state of Mississippi from recognizing lesbian and gay adoptions that have previously been granted by courts in other states.

    *Mississippi's House of Representatives easily passed a bill March 2 banning most abortions.
    The bill, Senate Bill 2922, passed 94-25 and bans all abortions except in the cases of rape, incest and to save the life of the mother. Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, a Republican, has said he would sign it and spark a challenge to Roe, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court case that legalized abortion nationwide. Pro-choice groups have promised to challenge it in court.

    *Nearly a quarter (24%) of children in Mississippi live in poverty

    *12% of children live in extreme poverty

    *41% of black children live in poor families, while10% of white children live in poor families.

    *Mississippi Ranks 2nd in Nation for Obesity; Mississippi has the 2nd highest level of adult obesity in the nation at 28.1 percent, and the highest overweight high school student level at 15.7 percent.

    *At the federal level, Mississippi's two U.S. senators are 3. Trent Lott (Republican) and Thad Cochran (Republican) - both extremely right wing

    *In the House, the state is represented by Republican Roger Wicker (a Trent Lott clone), Black Democrat Bennie Thompson, ultra right wing (and former Lott staffer) Republican Chip Pickering, and conservative Blue Dog Democrat Gene Taylor, who is pro-life, a supporter of the Federal Marriage Amendment and a firm supporter of the right to bear arms. He also strongly supports the death penalty and is more conservative on issues of immigration, crime, and drugs than many Republicans. He has voted in favor of lawsuit reform and tightening rules on personal bankruptcy.

    *the state voted by an overwhelming margin of 86 percent to ban gay marriage in 2004.

    *In 2000, Mississippi firmly backed Republican George W. Bush over Democrat Al Gore

    *in 2004, Bush beat Kerry with 60% of the vote.

    •  Thank you! (0+ / 0-)

      The statistics you've cited clearly support what so many Southern apologists here have been saying - that Southerners rejected John Kerry because he talked like a condescending Yankee smarty-pants.

      My other car is a pair of boots.

      by FutureNow on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:01:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here's South Carolina (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FutureNow, Rational Treehugger

      Here’s South Carolina

      *demographically the state is 66.1% White 30.5% Black

      *in its percentage of low-birthweight babies -- the state ranked 48th

      *in teen birth rates, the state still ranked 39th

      *45 percent of children in South Carolina live below 200 percent of the federal poverty level, compared with 40 percent nationally

      *43 percent of fourth-graders scored below basic reading levels, compared with 38 percent nationally.

      *26 percent of children under age 6 live in working-poor families, compared with 21 percent nationally.

      *South Carolina was the first state to secede from the United States on December 20, 1860

      *has law (DOMA) banning same-sex marriages

      *had sodomy law was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court on June 26, 2003

      *in 2001, a woman in the town of Great Falls sued after the town council refused to alter its prayers and stop speaking the name of Jesus Christ

      *South Carolina has became the second state to allow schools to give students academic credit for that instruction. The South Carolina Released Time Credit Act, signed into law June 2 by Gov. Mark Sanford, permits schools to give students an elective credit for participating in the religion class.

      *in Washington, SC is represented by Lindsay Graham and Jim DeMint. Both Republicans. 4 out of 6 of SC’s Reps are Republicans: These are Gresham Barrett, Henry Brown, Bob Inglis and Joe Wilson

      *DeMint is very conservative. He favors eliminating the IRS and Federal income tax. Additionally, he sponsored legislation that would replace the current system with a 23% national sales tax on all goods and services. He also stated his belief that openly gay people should not be allowed to teach in public schools and has also stated that single mothers who live with their boyfriends should similarly be excluded from being educators

      *Graham Graham authored an amendment to a Department of Defense Authorization Act restricting the authority of American courts to review applications of 1. habeas corpus by "enemy combatants," effectively nullifying a June 2004 U.S. Supreme Court decision allowing detainees to file habeas corpus petitions to challenge their detentions

      *Brown pretty much votes the straight GOP line

      *According to an analysis done by Barrett is arguably the most conservative member of the U.S. House of Representatives

      *in 2004, Bush got 58% of the vote to Kerry’s 41%. This was similar to 2000, when Bush got 57% and Gore got 41%

    •  Some fun Georgia facts (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rational Treehugger

      The last of the three:

      Here’s Georgia

      *2000: Bush 55%, Gore 43%

      *2004: Bush 58%, Kerry 41.4%

      *has anti-gay marriage law, which was passed by an overwhelming 3-1 margin in 2004.

      *Governor Gov. Sonny Perdue (R-GA)  - got elected by manipulating voters’ sentiments on the Confederate Flag

      *In the Senate: U.S. Senators Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., and Johnny Isakson, R-Ga (who, among other things, supports Bush's social security privitization scheme)

      *Chambliss’s voting history includes the following; what a cynical, corrupt piece of crap he is. (Georgians, what are you doing to get rid of him?):

      **Voted to reject a Democratic amendment that would have delayed administration rules on air pollution controls at upgraded industrial facilities. (AP, 1.22.03)
      ** Opposed efforts to clean up Georgia's waterways. (LCV)
      ** Voted to block clean air law enforcement. (LCV)
      ** Thought he was chatting privately with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist when he asked for help in securing an appointment for a rich GOP donor who raised "a chunk of money for me." Little did he know Frist had allowed a reporter to listen in and his story would spark allegations by Democrats that the two GOP lawmakers were "selling ambassadorships to the highest bidder." (AP, 5.14.03)
      ** Voted against an amendment to change the Emergency Supplemental to provide an additional $213 million in funding roduce armored Humvees. (Kos, 4.28.05)
      ** Voted in favor of using force against Iraq. (MoveOn, 10.12.02)
      ** Accepted thousands of dollars from groups opposed to stronger environmental laws and consistently voted against the environment. (LCV)
      ** Voted to limit the public's right to know about what chemicals are being released into the air and water. (LCV)
      **Voted against disclosing air pollution law violation information to the public. (LCV)
      **Supported legislation that would have significantly weakened laws curbing soot and smog emissions. (LCV)
      ** Voted to exempt oil refiners from air standards. (LCV)
      ** Supported a proposal to bar EPA enforcement of clean water laws that prevent raw sewage from flowing into the river. (LCV)
      ** Voted for a bill to relax water quality standards, exempt industry from certain water treatment requirements and weaken federal storm water permits that help reduce urban runoff. (LCV)
      ** Voted to delay the clean up of mercury from power plants. (LCV)
      ** Voted to hold up EPA's efforts to clean rivers contaminated with PCBs and contaminated sediments. (LCV)
      ** Twice supported legislation to undermine reporting requirements for companies releasing toxics into the environment. (LCV)
      ** Consistently opposed more funds for toxic waste site clean up. (LCV)
      ** Backed a proposal to compensate polluters for clean up costs with taxpayer dollars. (LCV)
      **Between 1996 and 2000, he accepted $333,000 from Political Action Committees opposed to stronger environmental laws and consistently voted against the environment. (LCV)
      ** Cosponsored the Claritin Patent Extension Act, which would prevent competition against the drug Claritin, artificially raising prices.
      ** Received $9,950 in campaign contributions from the gun lobby.
      ** Voted against background checks at gun shows.
      ** Voted against shifting $1.9 billion from commodity-based agriculture subsidies to voluntary conservation programs. (LCV, 10.8.01)
      ** Voted against reducing subsidies that encourage sugar farming on sensitive lands and redirecting funds to pay for Everglades restoration. (LCV, 10.8.01)
      ** Voted against barring $2 million in compensation for gun importers.
      ** Recieved donations of food and catering services for 2002 campaign events. But Democratic foes are questioning the legality of the donations to the Florida governor and the Georgia congressman, who was elected to the Senate in 2002. A search of federal and state financial reports turned up no record of the contributions. The donations are listed in an Oct. 9 letter to Chambliss obtained by Associated Press. The author, Georgia Republican activist Briggs Goggans, writes that he and Williamson Bros. barbecue owners Larry and Danny Williamson spent about $8,000 in time, food and materials for a Chambliss event in August in Atlanta. (AP, 6.2.03)
      ** Received a 0% environmental rating in 2001. (LCV)
      ** Received a 10% environmental rating for the 106th Congress. (LCV)
      ** Has a lifetime environmental rating of 7%. (LCV)
      ** Accepted thousands of dollars from groups opposed to stronger environmental laws. (LCV)
      ** Between 1996 and 2000, he accepted $333,000 from Political Action Committees opposed to stronger environmental laws. (LCV)

      In U.S. House, Georgia's representatives include:

      • JACK KINGSTON - R - ran unopposed in 2004;

      Kingston is a pro-life conservative who opposes stem cell research. He supports the death penalty, the war on terrorism, the Patriot Act and President Bush’s tax cuts. He has sponsored resolutions calling for the Ten Commandments to be displayed in the House and Senate Chambers. He spent a significant amount of time in his district promoting President Bush’s overhaul of the Social Security program in town hall meetings. USA Today named Kingston "one of the most partisan Republicans in the House," having been one of 19 co-sponsors of the 1997 resolution asking for an impeachment inquiry of President Clinton.

      *TOM PRICE - R  - ran unopposed in 2004; just this week, he Supporting Intelligence and Law Enforcement Programs to Track Terrorists and Terrorist Finances Conducted Consistent With Federal Law and With Appropriate Congressional Consultation and Specifically Condemning the Disclosure and Publication of Classified Information That Impairs the International Fight Against, Etc.

      *JOHN LINDER - R - ran unopposed in 2004;

      *NATHAN DEAL - R  - ran unopposed in 2004; Deal's voting record had been relatively moderate in his first term, but veered sharply to the right after his party switch. Originally pro-choice on abortion, he altered his stance to pro-life. His final conversion to conservative Republicanism occurred in 1998, when he voted for all four articles of impeachment against 1. Bill Clinton.

      *LYNN WESTMORELAND - R won in 2004 with 75.6 % of the vote; recently demonstrated, in an appearance on the Colbert Report, that he is as dumb as a post.

      *CHARLIE NORWOOD - R won with 74.3 % in 2004

      *PHIL GINGREY - R - won in 2004 with 57.4 % Gingrey's reputation in the Georgia State Senate was that of a 1. social conservative and a member of the Christian right. In the Georgia Senate he supported outlawing abortion and interpreted the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution as giving individual citizens rather than state militias a right to keep and use firearms. He also strongly supported the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, as well as the tax cuts of President George W. Bush. He opposes the provision of universal national health care. He is also on record as approving the actions taken by President Bush in regard to the military prison at Guantanamo Bay.

      Oh and one last point about Mississippi:

      Former RNC Chair Haley Barbour Shown Supporting the CCC -- Trent Lott's Pals

      "The home page of the Internet site for the infamous Council of Conservative Citizens ( currently features a photograph of former Republican Party chairman and current Mississippi GOP gubernatorial candidate Haley Barbour at a barbeque 'sponsored by the Council of Conservative Citizens to raise money for private academy school buses,' according to the site... Said National Jewish Democratic Council Executive Director Ira N. Forman: 'The views of the CCC are unknown only to those who have hidden under a rock or not read a national newspaper in the last ten years. They are not 'conservative;' in fact, they stand for the most insidious forms of racism, Holocaust denial, spiraling xenophobia, and white separatism and supremacy. Haley Barbour obviously should know better than to attend a CCC-sponsored function such as this, for his attendance can only be seen as an endorsement of their well-known repugnant views.'"

  •  I've lived in VA, TX, NY, PA, MA, CA (4+ / 0-)

    Yes, there are racists, sexists, and anti-intellectuals all over.  Just as there are progressive, compassionate people in every state.  But the balance is worse in the south.  I'm saying this from my direct experience.  I was amazed by what passed for acceptable behavior and utterances in the south.  It was depressing.

  •  Racism is on the rise (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FutureNow, Rational Treehugger

    In the South. It was on life support in the 90s, which is why gays (and lately liberals) had to become the new n*****s.

    After reaching a nadir in the OJ-Rodney King years, race relations in America were better than ever before. But in recent years I've seen this backsliding, and nowhere so much as in the South. Suddenly it's okay to be a racist again. My last four visits to small towns in Texas and Louisiana have been marred by my pointing out to people how racist they are. (Part of my pledge not to just get along any more; not working out so hot for my family but I could give a crap.) Before that people at least kept their mouths shut and the beneficiaries were their children. Now their kids are hearing this crap again. The older ones are rebelling; the younger ones will become... peckerwoods.

    This really accelerated after Katrina because Bushco needed someone to blame, so it was time to blame the victims. Why were these people so much worse off than, say, Floridians? (Yes, everyone forgot how Bush Sr. fucked up during Andrew and how awful it was in FL after... remind them.) Must be because they are... black. Translation: lazy, irresponsible, criminal.

    All of you fellow Southerners who are offended at the cartoon of Southerners in this diary: have you discussed Katrina in a small town or suburb or exurb in your state? If not, you might be mighty disturbed at what you hear.

    •  so what? (0+ / 0-)
      I have inlaws from west Texas who claim that the people displaced by Katrina are "trash." I also have cousins in Gulf Coast Mississippi whose homes were demolished and are still living like refugees. They all vote Republican. Don't think for a second that because you pointed out that rascism exists in the south that these people will suddenly become enlightened. You aren't reaching out to poor southern white people, you're using them as a punching bag for your frustration. Your bigotry is exactly the same as theirs. And your attitude is the same one that causes disillusioned, educated southerners to turn to libertarianism instead of the Democrats.

      If you really want to split hairs, we could discuss the fact that the south was never properly rebuilt after the civil war, and so the middle class could never flourish as it did in the north, where people also profitted from slavery.

      end corporate rule. restore democracy.

      by jaskot on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 01:35:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  typical dormroom psuedo-liberal elitism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yeah those filthy, inbred, retards are the cause of all the ills in our society. They should be rounded into camps and exterminated, right? Sorry, were you talking about the blacks? mexicans? jews? Who is it this time? Oh yeah, poor white trash. Yes, poor white people are the problem now right?


    I grew up working class in Texas, went to underfunded schools, and played with other poor white kids in polluted fields and dumping sites. Your villification of these people, as has been the politically correct norm over the past few years by the left, is KILLING our party. You aren't gonna bring them into the fold by mocking their poverty and their culture.

    Don't get me wrong, I fear the simmering rascism in this country as well, and have experienced redneck bullying firsthand, but you know what? It isn't confined to the south, or even rural areas. I live in Los Angeles now, and can tell you that there are PLENTY of rascist homophobes on the left coast. Even in the cities. Even in San Fransisco. Rascism doesn't have a RR Mailing address.

    So before you start throwing your molotov coctails from your dormroom onto the poor cracker security guards and truck drivers, maybe take a look at your own elitist attitudes. Maybe talk to some hispanics or blacks who have come into the Republican fold, and see why your narrow paradigm is fundamentally flawed.

    Forgive me, as I have a job, and don't have time to read all the comments. So I may be repeating what's already been pointed out.

    end corporate rule. restore democracy.

    by jaskot on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 11:47:05 AM PDT

    •  et tu (0+ / 0-)

      I also work, by the way. And have enjoyed some bullying myself, having an arabic name post 9/11. (Hey, when do you think GW is going to reset the calendar, like then did when JC was born/died? "Post 9/11" is almost too much of a bother...why not just reset the damn thing?)

      I agree that creating a tangible enemy is Human Experience 101. I think Karl Rove has perfected this model of controlling the masses and probably deserves a Nobel Prize.

      But I think you really missed the point.

      The point is that all those "filthy, inbred, retards" (as you say, not the author) are driving the rest of us over a cliff. Meanwhile, Liberals (or other reasonable folks) are TOO POLITE to suggest that perhaps, maybe, uh, the "less intellectually and spiritually endowed" might not be the people we all want in charge.

      I think we all need to get over holding our noses and admit that we have allowed our entire civilization to be dragged into the sewer by those, uh, (OK HERE I GO!) Cracker Boys with a hard on for Jesus, who so perfectally mirror the rulers of the House of Saud and/or the Taliban.

      By the way, do you have an opinion about those of us with 'naturally' brownish skin competing in the summer 'best tan' competition? I clean up, but am liberal enough to feel a tad guilty... HA! Peace.

  •  I speak slowly, since I am from the south (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joy, andydoubtless

    so I'll make it plain- to demonize a group of people, and claim that you can't reason with them, and that 'they' think this, and that 'they' do that, is prejudice, my friend, plain and simple. It is not an acceptable tactic of anyone claiming to be progressive, since it renders the term moot by contradicting it.

    You don't like Southern bigots. Well. Neither do I. But your infantile rant, and hideous stereotyping is typical of what you claim to oppose. You will not get a pass just because you live in the right part of the country, and make noises about being progressive. No. You are demonstrably not. And I don't much like Northern bigots either.

    If you followed the progressive line in all other things, yet hated 'fags', or 'wops' or whatever, you would rightly be reviled by others claiming to be progressive. But southerners? Well, everyone knows they aren't like us. They smell bad. They believe in Jesus. They don't take baths. So some of your mentally challenged friends cheer you on.

    Geez. And the thinly veiled hint of violence? What, lynch southerners? What the hell have you become, that you can't see the violation of your own avowed values in this? You are what you claim to hate, sans some collard greens and a drawl, and with a different object of hatred, and different political talking points. Not impressed a bit, and I feel pretty confident that we can write off the south for as long as these attitudes remain acceptable to the progressive movement.

    Oh, and one more thing- you'll never convince anyone of anything by claiming that they are retarded or evil for not agreeing with you. This tactic is unfortunately common on all sides of the political spectrum these days, but since I am in sympathy with what you claim to support, I thought I'd tell you.

  •  A term that precedes Peckerwoods (0+ / 0-)

    is the Pappy Finn phenomenon. Self-explanatory I would think. An inferiority complex in desperate need of someone to lord it over.

    Anyone reminded of the last scene of Easy Rider? A likely reality I would speculate.

  •  Right Wingers Have Seized On This Diary. (0+ / 0-)

    In their true parasitic fashion the right-wingers have seized upon my comments in order to paint the left as hateful.

    This is it folks,unfortunately my commentary and my exercise of free speech has offended the demagogues at:

    I sure don't speak for everybody here and I sure as hell am not a spokesman for the Daily Kos. I am not a Democrat but an independent who hates what is being done to this country.

    I have many here who agree and many who disagree but I speak for nobody other than myself.

    That being said are you going to just take this bullshit or join me in a spirited defense of free-speech and a counter attack?

    We have our differences but the enemy is circling, it smells blood in the water....

    ....let's do something different and bag that motherfucker for a change!

    •  Freedom of Speech (0+ / 0-)

      You certainly have the constitutional right to say what you want about anyone or anything. I would defend your right to say it because that's what America is about, despite what Bush & Co. say, BUT I'd have to hold my nose while doing it because what you said was ugly, plain and simple.

      Can't we all just get along?

      by liberal from birth on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 04:11:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Reading backwards (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Just posted my thought, which was a "HELL YES". Then started reading the comments.

      I have lived in a middle east theocracy, and I have lived in the USA.

      I chose liberty...

      to choose what I wear
      what I eat

      what I drink

      what games I play
      what books I read
      what music I hear
      what art I enjoy
      what art I create
      who I marry
      IF I marry
      who I have sex with
      how I have sex
      how I spend my money
      how I earn my money
      my birth control
      my child bearing
      when I pray

      where I pray

      if I pray

      and most of all, the liberty to enjoy all of this in the privacy of my own home without any comment from my nosey neighbors, let alone the Christian/Republican Taliban who seems to think my life is their own damn business.

      I also choose clean air, water and chemical free food for me and my family.

      I loved your diary. The difference between our playing nice and their playing nice, is that they don't. We just have to get over our squeamishness about taking them on.

      Like I said in my post, it is for their own good. And our survival.


    •  Congratulations, motherfucker (0+ / 0-)

      All your work has indeed accomplished real political change--in favor of the other side.

      This is the time for you to think carefully about what goals you have in participating in this public dialogue we call dailykos, and about whether you are serving these goals and our larger goals as a community by writing what I will generously call a provocation for provocation's sake.

      Accomplish something with your time and energy other than upsetting people who share your beliefs and giving those who hate them some very potent ammunition.

      And as to this "circling the wagons" talk in this last post, I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. I hope Ann Coulter exsanguinates you.

  •  Y'all better believe it (0+ / 0-)

    Testosterone driven, barely-functional-IQ-level politics is alive and well right here in the US of A. I defy anyone to distinguish a Peckerwood as defined in this article from any one of the Taliban in Afganistan or the mujaheen (religious police) in KSA (Kingdom of Saudia Arabia).

    Why are so many of us liberals afraid to just say it?

    I know, I know. We are tolerant. Thoughtful. Slow to Judge. Abhor stereotypes and generalizations.

    Meanwhile, while we liberals thoughtfully create committees to discuss the possible implications and permutations and karama costs of any one of thousands of choices we perceive we have the LUXURY of contemplating, these Neanderthals are creating laws, defying laws, and, quite frankly, dragging us all back to the dark ages!

    I think it is time for liberals to give ourselves permission to fight to win--what we are fighting for is worth it. If that means hurting some feelings, then too damn f***ing bad.

    They might not like it; but just like any diet and exercise program, or other discipline, they will get used to it. It is for their own good anyway.

    •  Oh please (0+ / 0-)

      This is too much to take. On one hand you claim you've been a victim of intolerance, for which yes you have my sympathies no matter how annoying I find you at the moment. But at the same time you are advocating that the left embrace the tactics of the right and become intolerant itself.

      Do you understand that this means the rules under which the Hard Right operates would then govern our politics totally? And everyone would be scapegoating. And concomittantly, all our politics would become nothing but scapegoating. And eventually the dream that politics could be anything better, anything more, would die.

      Yes, you bet your ass I say Progressivism calls us to something better, something higher, something nobler.

      Otherwise, we all become Karl Roves. Surely a fate worse than death.

  •  This diary is a pefect example of why the dems (0+ / 0-)

    will continue to lose every Southern state in presidential elections for the foreseeable future.

    Please do keep it up. Before too long we'll have the Supreme Court stacked with federalists, and it won't matter who controls the White House.

  •  The liberals among the peckerwoods (0+ / 0-)

    Never forget the millions of progressives who are outnumbered in the red states. Some of them believe they are the only leftie isolated in a sea of right-wing nutjobs, and finding a DFA meetup, a liberal church, or a Drinking Liberally bar is like a suffocating man finding a oxygen supply. Support them, acknowledge them, and help them work toward becoming the majority in each state.

  •  Preach it, brother! (0+ / 0-)

    Many political analysts like to think that the real reason that the South has abandoned the Democratic Party is because the Dems keep putting up the wrong kind of candidates: too effete, too intellectual, too elitist, not NASCAR "regular guys", etc.  

    This is nonsense.  

    Your post tells the truth.  We should never forget that Adlai Stevenson, one of the most stereotyped intellectual "eggheads" in recent American politics, carried both Alabama and Mississippi by huge margins, not once but twice, in the 1950's presidential contests, and against one of the most seemingly appealing macho candidates ever, the Supreme Commander of NATO in World War II, Dwight Eisenhower.  Why was this?  

    Because at that time the Democrats were not yet promoting civil rights strongly at the federal level.  The South was more than eager to support effete Democrats as long as their peckerwood culture was not challenged.  

    This should make one pause about thinking that military service will command the South's respect.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." -- Voltaire

    by WaitingForLefty on Fri Jun 30, 2006 at 09:56:10 PM PDT

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