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I first became aware of the controversy over whether to re-elect Cynthia McKinney when I saw the DailyKos ad that featured her picture with a red slash across it.   Then, I've read many differing views described in many posts.

I learned about the odd incident in the Capitol Building from Jon Stewart (from the Daily Show) who highlighted the absurdity of it.   If everything I've heard is true (i.e. assaulting a security guard, followed by accusations of racism), I have to admit that it does sound like she lost her marbles for a moment there.

But at the same time, we don't want to be like those Bush supporters whose principal criteria seems to be whether they think the politician would make for good company while drinking a beer at a picnic.   I mean, we're not electing a next-door neighbor or a best friend.   We're electing a legislator, and with that in mind, we should focus on whether an incumbent has doon a good job in their official capacity of representing our interests and our values in the support of legislation on Capitol Hill.

So, the question is, "Has Cynthia McKinney done a good job as a legislator?"    I think she has.   Here are some examples:

Iraq War
Cynthia McKinney voted against the Iraq war.
http://www.vote-smart.org/...

Universal Health Care
Cynthia McKinney was one of 39 members of a task force to promote universal health care.   Some others on the task force include such illustrious liberals like Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers.
http://www.house.gov/...

Free Trade - CAFTA
Cynthia McKinney voted against CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement).
http://www.vote-smart.org/...

World Trade Organization
Cynthia McKinney was one of only 45 Democrats who voted in the year 2005 to withdrawal from the WTO.   There were 153 Democrats who voted in FAVOR of staying in the WTO.
http://clerk.house.gov/...

H-1B Visas
Along with liberals like Dennis Kucinich, Cynthia McKinney has expressed opposition to these modern-day devices of indentured servitude.   Though her record is not super strong here, there are 115 Democrats who have a lower score than her and only 85 that have a higher score.   Also, her record after 1996 is very good.   (By the way, for Dennis Kucinich, there are 190 Democrats with a lower score and only 5 Democrats with a higher score.)
Cynthia McKinney score on visas - http://grades.betterimmigration.com/...
Dennis Kucinich score on visas - http://grades.betterimmigration.com/...
Cynthia McKinney votes since 1996 - http://grades.betterimmigration.com/...

Then, I also came across this blog entry that describes a scorecard in which Cynthia McKinney receives a high score.   This scorecard shows that she has supported civil liberties, our sovereignty, and upholding the Constitution.
http://freedomdemocrats.org/...

Here's a quote from the blog:

When looking at all of the members of the House of Representatives, do any stand out as consistently voting with Ron Paul on these ten votes?   Two Democrats voted with Ron Paul eighty percent of the time: Barney Frank of Massachusetts and Cynthia McKinney of Georgia.   Thirty-three other Democrats, too long to list here, voted with Ron Paul seven times out of ten, more than any member of the Liberty Caucus.   Even Bernie Sanders, professing a socialist ideology, voted with Ron Paul on seven of the ten votes.
Barney Frank and Bernie Sanders are pretty well-respected among many Democrats.   Also, Ron Paul is not one of those corporatist libertarians.   He also votes against "free trade" agreements and the World Trade Organization.

Some more info about what votes comprise the scorecard:

What is going on here?   Looking at the votes, I think we can place them into categories.   The REAL ID Act and the Patriot Act clearly are protection of civil liberties and it's arguable that Ron Paul's amendment dealing with banning federal funding of mandatory child mental screenings falls under this as well.   H. R. 841 is largely a constitutional and procedural matter.   We then have three votes (CAFTA and pulling out of UN and WTO) that I could call paleo-isolationism.   Isolationists of both the left and the right could hypothetically agree here and a handful did.   Throw in the Emergency Supplemental, which was full of pork, and it's hard to argue with the list of votes.

Another summary of the scorecard:

...it is strongly tilted towards votes concerning civil liberties, sovereignty, and upholding the general principles of the Constitution.   As I have argued in the past, these are the key areas where Democrats have clearly and consistently shown that they are better than Republicans

Also, please check this DU post that has lots of links showing the good record of Cynthia McKinney.
McKinney gets a 100% rating from the best of the liberal organizations

In summary, Cynthia McKinney has a good record.   Does there need to be any other justification to support her re-election?   So, I urge people to support Cynthia McKinney.   She's doing the people's will.   She's arguably a little flaky, but on any day of the week, I'll take honest & flaky over corrupt & bland (which is unfortunately the norm among too many members of both parties in Congress.)

The runoff election is this upcoming Tuesday, August 8th.   I think it could be close.   Please support her anyway you can.
volunteer to help re-elect Cynthia McKinney

Originally posted to Quequeg on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 11:57 AM PDT.

Poll

Should Democratic activists support the re-election of Cynthia McKinney

41%85 votes
50%104 votes
8%17 votes

| 206 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Other... (5+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    mperloe, RoIn, sanchez96, bustacap, AaronBa
    Hidden by:
    Pete Rock

    After she comes clean about and apologizes for the incident where she hit the cop then played the race card.

    •  Troll rating explained on Opinionated Ed (0+ / 0-)

      I troll rated you because Cynthia M DID apologize for the incident (her reaction to it) WAS investigated by a grand jury on it, and was exonerated of any activity requiring a prosecution.

      There has been plenty of evidence on various threads about the Hank Cynthia race in GA-4  that the incident was manufactured by a white Capitol cop and his boss to somehow get back at McKinney who is taking the side of certain officers in ongoing struggles over working conditions and promotions ,etc.  

       If you read KOS regularily, you would be aware of most of this. It isn't a big secret.

      So my conclusion is when I see your midnight comment on August 5th, complete with a 4 piece cheering section that it in itself is worthy of a troll rating.

      Disagree with McKinney on her politics or issues,but leave the personal whining and FALSE history as if stuff hasn't happened contrary to your assertion out of it.  I am calling your immediate statement above-bullshit, designed to inflame and mislead.

      And BTW, I am very disappointed to do this because I checked your dairy out and I can't figure how you are holding reasonable views and off-the wall ones at the same time...

      Exxon Mobil's 10 billion: "Oil Profits are Blood Money!"

      by Pete Rock on Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 08:17:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Response to Troll Rating (0+ / 0-)

        I troll rated you because Cynthia M DID apologize for the incident (her reaction to it) WAS investigated by a grand jury on it, and was exonerated of any activity requiring a prosecution.

        Regarding her apology, I did not (in my own opinion) regard it as sincere. That is my own impression, and I will hold onto that until I see some evidence that contradicts it. Then I would be open to changing my mind.

        And BTW, I am very disappointed to do this because I checked your dairy out and I can't figure how you are holding reasonable views and off-the wall ones at the same time...

        I am not a religious person, but I consider myself very spiritual. I try to model my thoughts and opinions based on great philosophers that have come before me, especially Jesus of Nazareth. I look at each issue as it applies to social justice and honesty. I believe that the wars in Iraq and Lebanon are wrong. I am against racism, and those that try to benefit from it. I dont know much about Cynthia McKinney, but from what I did read and hear I believe that she did try to play the race card to her advantage after assaulting a cop, and that her apology was not sincere.

        Now I may be wrong, but I would need to be shown. If you care to respond, my email is ed3b@yahoo.com. If you (or anyone else provides me with info to change my mind, I will admit it.

        Thank you

  •  If I Had Any Indication... (6+ / 0-)

    ...that she were, as you say, "honest and flaky," I might feel more kindly toward her.

    I've seen little sign of "honest" and a lot of "flaky."

    •  If any lobbyist thought she was effective (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mperloe, AaronBa, VolvoDrivingLiberal

      We'd have plenty of evidence of her honesty or dishonesty.  It's  unfortunate, but the only way we have of telling whether politicians are honest is whether they take or reject all the graft shovelled their way. Because Cynthia is so horribly ineffective, however, she gets no bribes to either reject or accept.

  •  Here's a good reason NOT to vote for Cynthia.... (19+ / 0-)

    ... she's an embarassment to the party and to black people trying to make a difference and hold their self respect.

    When someone is a minority, judgement is always placed on character as much as it is on job performance. Is it fair? Not at all, but it's reality and the reality is, Cynthia McKinney looks incompetent for having a bad character in a job where character is a part of the job.

    Sorry America: He's just not that into you.

    by LoneBlackMan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:03:01 PM PDT

    •  Regardless of (9+ / 0-)

      her legislative record and anything she acheives for her consituants she is a high profile shit magnet. At a time when it is republicans who are,and well should be,on the defensive the last thing Democrats need is someone whose actions can be exploited on the national level and affect races well outside her own,very safe,district. The goopers don't have much to go on. Why give them something?

      it tastes like burning...

      by eastvan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:52:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Best comment I've seen in a McKinney thread.... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RoIn, AaronBa, eastvan

        all week! "Shit magnet". That's priceless...and spot on accurate.

      •  And come to think of it... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pat208

        What exactly has she acheived for her consituants?

        Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

        Feingold for President

        by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:14:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, I honestly don't know.. (0+ / 0-)

          her noteriety,as said,overshadows her accomplishments(if indeed,they exist). I will admit that it seems she gets attention for all the wrong reasons. I honestly don't know if she has been re-elected in the past because of local work or because it is such a safe Democrat district. I suspect,because of past primary mishaps that it is the latter,not the former.

          it tastes like burning...

          by eastvan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:13:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Safe Dem district. (0+ / 0-)

            Bluest county in the Deep South. The action is entirely in the summer, for the primary (and, in this case, runoffs).

            "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

            by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:17:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  How is are the (0+ / 0-)

              registration numbers and average turnout?

              it tastes like burning...

              by eastvan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:56:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The typically-sucky primary range. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:25:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not enough (0+ / 0-)

                  foot soldiers out there corralling their people. Organizers need to realize that a primary is a good chance to exercise 'the machine'. Find out where the problems are.Find out where the voters are and get them in contact with the campaign. Get a large number out to a primary and its safe to assume they will be there in November. And you know where they are and how to get a hold of them. A lot of hard work,but it makes the first Tues. in Nov easier.

                  it tastes like burning...

                  by eastvan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:51:29 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'll grant McKinney one thing: great machine. (0+ / 0-)

                    She does grassroots and GOTV very well. She doesn't try to get a broad base -- she doesn't need to. A narrow base THAT SHOWS UP AT THE VOTING BOOTHS works wonders.

                    It all takes place in the primary season, under the radar, because in GA 04, which went for Kerry by something like 73%, the Dem primary is the race.

                    "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                    by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:15:21 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And to beat that (0+ / 0-)

                      takes more of the same. However,if,as you say,it is a narrow base,then it is,by nature,not a 'good machine'. A good machine strives for a broad base. A narrow base doesn't deliver anything but bragging rights.To a small crowd of believers. She sounds very,very vulnerable.

                      it tastes like burning...

                      by eastvan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:47:37 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  That reminds me of a joke that Abe Lincoln... (0+ / 0-)

                        ... used to tell. Well, I can't remember the particulars, but it's about how the legs of a dachshund aren't really short -- they reach all the way to the ground.

                        McKinney's machine is focused and well organized and exactly the right size to get her elected. Or at least it was. Very efficient, though, no bigger than needed to get the job done. No extra promises to make, bridges to build.

                        So you're right that it's not a very robust machine. May yet get the job done on Tuesday -- people who like her really LOVE her, and they're working overtime this weekend.

                        "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                        by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 05:40:10 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

      •  On 'shit magnets' and effectiveness. (4+ / 0-)

        To parallel another post I made downthread (about national profile vs. local effectiveness), I don't think we in the GA 4th would be against McKinney just because the Right finds her an easy target.

        I do agree that sometimes she herself is the problem, but that sometimes the Right is just looking for a punching bag. She's an easy target, given their base.

        So if her notoriety with the Right were the only issue, I believe we'd ignore her poor attention to the district and take it for the team. We'd support her even more strongly to deny the Right the satisfaction of taking her down.

        Problem is, as others have pointed out "there's a lot more to being a Rep" than having a good voting record. And there's where there is strong consensus that McKinney comes up lacking. Embarassment aside, there is a case for a change.

        "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

        by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:20:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  'poor attention to her district' (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bustacap, pat208

          You are better placed than I to pass judgement on that. I do suspect that the safeness of the district has led to her political longevity. It might be better for the 4th to have a 'stay at home' type reresenting them than a national figure. There is probably a lot to done on the local level.

          it tastes like burning...

          by eastvan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:19:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We'd love to have it both ways. (0+ / 0-)

            Having a national star as one's Rep is great. I've also lived in John Lewis' district, for example. Sigh... he's great.

            But some other district is going to have to come up with a star this time, because McKinney's time may have come and gone (again).

            "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

            by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:26:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We are better served to (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VolvoDrivingLiberal

              have any attention,or even noteriety,spread out to some of the other,as yet,lower profile races that are a lot closer. If the media doesn't get fed from one direction they will look for something else.And maybe Take a look at some of the goopers brighter lights running. I am sure they would the ensuing scrutiny would be beneficial.

              it tastes like burning...

              by eastvan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:02:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  On Embarrassment,Respect and Judgments (5+ / 0-)

      Frankly, I found it disrespectful, embarrassing and outright Tom-ish when Hank Johnson said Cynthia needs to offer a personal apology to the cop on the Capitol police force and that her behavior was 'bad for the children.'  What self-respecting black man would stand up in public and tell a black woman to apologize to a cop who inappropriately touched her.  I KNOW Hank Johnson's momma taught him better than that !!  An African-American public official who stands up for her principles even in the face of adversity is one who has far better character than one who is concerned about what judgments white people may be making about behavior.

      •  Inappropriate touching!!???? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mperloe, RoIn, Sanuk

        You have proof of this? A source other than McKinney's words. Chrissakes, I have seen no definitive proof that the cop was doing anything but the job he was supposed to be doing. While I can accept there are always two sides to a story, I find it hard to believe that a cop would "inappropriately touch" a female at a crowded entry with lots of people watching.

    •  Reputation and character (0+ / 0-)

      Frankly the American public rates the US Congress at or below 21 % confidence levels...far lower than any other branch, all other professions, teachers, insurance agents, used car salesmen,etc.

      Why is that?  Because it is chock full of Tom Delays. Bob Noes,Duke Cunninghams, Jeffersons and Sensinbrenners and Musgraves, Pombos, and others.

      Agreed, they are a disgrace.

      But to take a voting record like McKinney's which is a bright spot among Democrats let alone all Congressmen and huff and puff about her lack of respect and refusal to bow to solons and managers and puppetmasters (lobbyists)  up there, well, I learned where a bunch of you (uprating the LoneBlackMan comment)  are coming from.

      McKinney is worth any three others, Bernie Sanders excepted.  Not afraid to speak, not afraid to encourage those of us in the trenches.  But who cares
      She needs to mind her manners and touch her forelock and bring back more pork to her district.

      11% votes missed?

        How many of them were useless votes? I will bet most of themwere showpieces that were dead on arrival at the Senate.

      Winning strategy....out thieve the other guy, and look impeccable and virtuous doing it.

      Sorry.  Get yourself a ventriloquist dummy.  I prefer a voice and a heart.  we are really disagreed here, so be it.

      Exxon Mobil's 10 billion: "Oil Profits are Blood Money!"

      by Pete Rock on Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 08:36:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  just asking (6+ / 0-)

    her fans say she's great on the national issues.

    her opponents say she's too much of a loose cannon.

    but the real question is this: what has she ever accomplished for her district?

    name some specific bills she wrote, some specific legislation that directly benefited her constituents.

    •  Great Point (9+ / 0-)

      Ask her constituents that post here.  Overwhelmingly, they'll tell you she's been an abysmal failure in that respect...

    •  Well... (6+ / 0-)
      ...there is her Tupac bill.
      •  Please me that's a joke. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bustacap, Sanuk

        Sorry America: He's just not that into you.

        by LoneBlackMan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:25:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not a joke. (7+ / 0-)

          Join the College Kossacks on Facebook, or the Republicans win.

          by DemocraticLuntz on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:30:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  holy smokes (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bustacap, Goldfish, BlueGoo, Sanuk

            I flabbergasted...........

            "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin

            by bluestateLIBertarian on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:43:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Holy shit on a stick! (6+ / 0-)

            This women thought investigating celeberty murders was something worthy of Congress' time? She needs to be throw out of seat and kicked to the curb!

            Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

            Feingold for President

            by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:17:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's 'Celebrity', and yes it is real (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BurnetO

              In 1968-1969 some Hollywood types from the antiwar wing of the culture there befriended or did fundraisers for members of the Black Panthers who were on a hit list by the FBI and local law enforcement in Chicago, LA, New Haven,Boston,New Bedford and other places.

              One actress, Jean Seberg, was hounded by a smear and whispering campaign that she had an adulterous relationship with some of the members and supposedly committed suicide in 1970.  The FBI was revealed to be running at the behest of J Edgar Hoover "Cointelpro"  to spread rumors and disinformation in the anti Vietnam War movement at that time.

              So this activity is part of an unsavory history that deals with abuse of civil liberties. In the late 1970's several high ranking FBI officials were forced to resign after  their roles in abetting these abuses were exposed.

              If not McKinney, who else would raise the issue? Snark all you want there are principles involved.
              We are getting similar treatment from the Attorney General/BushCo Gitmo/torture team today, only it is more subtle.

              Exxon Mobil's 10 billion: "Oil Profits are Blood Money!"

              by Pete Rock on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:14:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Woh wohhhh wohhhhh (0+ / 0-)

                Explain to me, in logical steps, what all the things you just brought up have anything to do with the bill I was talking about.

                We're not talking about the 1960s, and I don't know why you felt the need to bring the 1960's up, other then to muddy the waters.

                Hey, I've got an idea: how about a bill to investigate the death of Kirk Cobain, because I don't think he really killed himself.

                Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

                Feingold for President

                by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:19:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Check out Tupac Shakur's family music history (0+ / 0-)

                  If you can find Elaine Brown's LP (vinyl) of 1970 it has a number of ballads of the struggles the BPP was involved in at that time. Gives a flavor of the period and lays the basis for today's rapper notoriety.  Also explains the abuse of civil liberties. Easier than chasing down academic tracts, reviews etc.

                  Exxon Mobil's 10 billion: "Oil Profits are Blood Money!"

                  by Pete Rock on Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 08:42:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  No (6+ / 0-)
          Here you go:

          H.R.4210 - To provide for the expeditious disclosure of records relevant to the life and death of Tupac Amaru Shakur.

          http://thomas.loc.gov/...

        •  What I want to know is (5+ / 0-)

          how you can support Hank Johnson, given his "We'll stand down when they stand up" position on Iraq? To me, that's too important an issue to compromise on. And to all those who say McKinney hasn't done enough locally, just how much positive legislation do you think she could have accomplished with the GOP controlling both houses and the White House.

          I suspect that you've bought into the media-bashing of McKinney following the pin incident. To me, that was much to do about nothing. I can understand her irritation about not being recognized after all her years in Congress, especially since no one disputes that she flashed her congressional ID. As to her not wearing her pin, Wikipedia notes:

          A July 5, 2006 article in The Hill titled "Pinpoint: After McKinney, many lawmakers still dress without their congressional pins" noted "no discernable pattern" in the decision by Members of Congress regarding the wearing of the Congressional Pin. Notably, House Majority Leader Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio) went on record that he was "not a pin-wearing guy." Another Republican Member, Sherwood Boehlert (NY) explained his reason for not wearing a pin, stating "I know who I am."

          As a female, my own tendency is to shove/punch first, and assess the situation afterwards if I am grabbed. So the whole incident, as far as I can tell, is much ado about nothing--another version of the "Dean scream"--but with a less sympathetic audience here on dKos.

          There must be something here I'm not getting. Can you give me specific examples of how she has let her constituents down? Or how she has appeared nutty in other ways (and please don't use her father's words against her)? Every time I have seen her on C-SPAN, she has seemed reasonable and articulate to me. And I do appreciate her stand on issues ranging from health care to foreign policy.

          •  Slow Down! (5+ / 0-)

            Aren't you mischaracterizing Johnson's position on Iraq?  At the website you link to, his position is:

            When should we leave?

            • As soon as is possible, sensible, and ethical.
            • To set a hard date for a pullout would be imprudent and risk further endangering our troops.
            • To leave a devastated country in civil war would be immoral.
            • When our military experts advise that Iraq is a more stable and viable state, we should begin to disengage and bring our men and women home as quickly as possible.

            It would be possible to argue that we should just pack up and leave today, but that doesn't make much sense, given that it would lead to increased violence (I know, I know... ).  His position certainly isn't the worst I have heard.

            •  Since any number of novice (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Inky, BurnetO, rmx2630
              candidates are mouthing this line, it's obvious that it's been developed for them.
              Obviously, there are a lot of Democrats invested in the proposition that the United States is and should be a dominant military force in the Persian Gulf/Indian Ocean region and they readily agreed to the proposition that we should have military bases with missile installations in Iraq.  
              It's, however, doubtful that Americans want to be number one at the end of a gun.

              http://carolforcongress.com/

              by hannah on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:49:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Perhaps there are worse positions ... (3+ / 0-)

              When should we leave?

              • As soon as is possible, sensible, and ethical.

              That all sounds well and good.

              • To set a hard date for a pullout would be imprudent and risk further endangering our troops.

              Here's where I start having a problem. I, like senators Kerry, Murtha, Feingold, and others, believe it can only improve the situation in Iraq if the US sets a firm timeline for withdrawal.

              • To leave a devastated country in civil war would be immoral.

              Too late. The country is already devastated and in a civil war. Our continued presense only prolongs the existing civil war.

              • When our military experts advise that Iraq is a more stable and viable state, we should begin to disengage and bring our men and women home as quickly as possible.

              In other words, when they stand up, we'll stand down.

              •  Yes, (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                pat208, Sanuk

                but only if there is some sort of plan in place.  A date for just a date's sake won't be met.

                And, yes, the country is devastated and in a civil war... and yes, we don't help end it.  But our presence stops it from becoming more than "low level."

                Your use of "stand up/stand down" is a deliberate linking of Johnson to Bush, whose phrase that is... and that is not at all fair to Johnson.

                •  It can get worse? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Inky, BurnetO

                  Aaron,

                  6,000 people have died in Baghdad alone over the past two months.  That's more than low-level in my book.  Also, the presence of foreign troops in Iraq is a magnet for every fundamentalist ne'er do well from Casablanca to Lahore.  When America pulls out, Iraq is yesterday's news for the jihadists and maybe, just maybe, the Iraqi establishment will step up when there's no-one to step into the breech for them.

                  Have you ever had foreign troops on your streets?  I have, and believe me, every day that that is the case presents dozens of opportunities for a spark to turn into a forest fire.

                  And if I'm wrong???  Like it can get worse?

              •  There are worse positions. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sanuk

                Like Lieberman's. And Thomas Friedman's. And all the neo-con apologists, in and out of government.

                Johnson's position, while not aggressive enough for me, is at least in line with a lot of Democratic challengers this year, many of whom are getting enthusiastic support from Kossaks.

                Keep in mind this is essentially a local race, and mostly about getting the district out of the clutches of the McKinney machine, and into the hands of somebody with experience with and compassion about local issues and needs.

                "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:06:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Can you slip a piece of paper between (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Inky, Catrina

              Johnson's position and Bush's?
              Platitudes, platitudes, platitudes. Bullshit.

              Burnet O (-8.31,-6.31)
              Impeach Cheney First

              by BurnetO on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:31:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  sometimes it's ok not to do much (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pat208, DemocraticLuntz

      national legislation.  A congressperson can be excellent at constituent services too.   That's especially true in a minority party situation where very few national bills will be brought up by the majority. I don't hold that against her because delay and boehner wouldn't allow many Democratic bills or ammendments even to be aired.

      I wonder how she is at constituent services?

      "Facts are stupid things"-- Ronald Reagan 1988

      by dougymi on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:37:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It May Be Anecdotal (6+ / 0-)
        ...but I have heard that some people who live in her district have gotten so fed up with her unresponsviness to these kids of services that they end up contacting John Lewis' office in GA-5.
        •  That is somewhat true, as far as I can tell. (5+ / 0-)

          Also true is that a chunk of GA-04 was moved to GA-05 because the residents, en masse, demanded it after one of McKinney's more infamous tirades.

          [Locals: LaVista Road and environs, between Clairmont and Briarcliff. You know the neighborhood, I think, and the issue in question.]

          "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

          by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:53:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think this is more than just anecdotal... (6+ / 0-)

          I know someone in GA-04 who had a legitimate inquiry on a veterans issue who found McKinney's office to be unresponsive. This person contacted John Lewis' office and a staffer resolved the issue.

        •  These anecdotes and comments are (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Inky, Grand Poobah, BurnetO

          are very interesting coming from RoIn, pat208 and Volvo.  How prepared they are!  These are the  same people who criticized the anonimity of the statements of the black capital police officers who commented anonomously on the video that the white CP officers were out to get Cynthia.  

          Well, I have a few comments too regarding constituent services.  A couple years ago I sent out letters to all of my congress people, local and fed regarding a problem I was having with my postal service.  The following week I went on vacation but when I came back there was a phone call from Cynthia's office regarding the issue.  Having a boat load of messages and emails waiting at my return, I put that call on the back burner.  But I was surprised a few weeks later to get a follow-up call from her office to see if things had been resolved.  The other reps, if they answered at all (except Chamblis's office) sent me a form letter.  It would surprise me (for any representative) if after a 14 year term in office that we couldn't find an anecdotal complaint from a constituent.  I'd have to be a dumb republican to be convinced by these anecdotes.  

          Where in the world did pat get the info that Cynthia's constituents asked to be moved from her district?  Her district has actually been jerrymandered by the republicans to include portions of Gwinnett county and Rockdale county to dilute her solid black vote.  How ludicrous to state that her constituents asked to be redistricted.  And her parenthical statement,

          [Locals: LaVista Road and environs, between Clairmont and Briarcliff. You know the neighborhood, I think, and the issue in question.]

          just further convinces me that it is the rethug brigade that is after Cynthia.  The lavista, clairmont and briarcliff area is being gentrified with million dollar mac mansions.  Those are probably the "eligible white voters" that the republican pollster, with the 6 point margin of error, who claimed that Johnson had a 25 point lead was referring to.  

          •  Wrong again! (0+ / 0-)

            The lavista, clairmont and briarcliff area is being gentrified with million dollar mac mansions.

            Not the neighborhood we're talking about here, the one that was moved to John Lewis GA 05. Read my post carefully -- if you knew the issues you'd know exactly what I mean here. More evidence of your limited homework about the district.

            And your repeated accusations of fellow Kossaks being Republicans and liars is beyond trollish. It's pathetic. You've got nothing else to argue except to smear other progressives who disagree with you.

            [When you've got a second, please show us exactly where I took on the Capitol Police issue in the manner you've claimed, or apologize for your sloppy application of broad brush.]

            "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

            by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:26:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What 'we' (1+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              BurnetO
              Hidden by:
              sanchez96

              Not the neighborhood we're talking about here

              are you talking about?  I thought the comment was from you.  Do you have your posse with you?  

              And you/they're well prepared arent you.  Had your/their summaries all written up and ready to cut and paste.  So rethuglican.

              •  Stop with trolly trollishness. It's beneath you. (0+ / 0-)

                So rethuglican.

                You're getting downright silly now, in between your repeated claims that everyone who disagrees with you is a liar and a Republican. (Which is redundant, of course.)

                Go after some real Pug-flesh, will ya? We're on the same team here, trying to win back the country from the real Thugs. We in GA 04 are also trying to win back the district from an ineffective machine pol. There is ample evidence of real Dems on both sides of this campaign, so cut with the character assassination.

                "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 05:45:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  What is wrong with you? n/t (0+ / 0-)

                Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

                Feingold for President

                by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 08:23:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  that area is heavily dem (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pat208

            ...tons of kerry signs in 04 and few bush cheney. people in that area may have money, but they are dems, not rethugs.

            •  Right. I didn't want to make a big deal of it... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VolvoDrivingLiberal

              ... but since SOMEbody us having trouble believing us, I'm referring, of course, to the Orthodox Jewish neighborhood along

              LaVista Road and environs, between Clairmont and Briarcliff.

              People who actuallly live in the area could not miss the signs of this vibrant, active area -- all the foot traffic, of course, and the several active temples & schools. It's a great, family-oriented neighborhood, and very well organized politically.

              Residents there became increasingly frustrated -- some livid -- with McKinney, and their neighborhood was moved to the GA-05, despite county lines, etc. etc. etc. Enough was enough, and they were listened to. They're John Lewis' constituents now. The public trail of this move is pretty evident.

              "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

              by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 05:37:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Heh (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VolvoDrivingLiberal, Mia Dolan

            Not liking your pet candidate does not make someone a Republican. I've known one of the posts you're calling out for a long time, and while I don't know the other two as well, I've never seen them say anything to give me pause about their loyalty

            You, on the other hand, are someone I've never seen before, throwing around highly inflammatory accusations, and generally carrying on the tradition around these parts of McKinny supporters behaving badly. I don't think it could be possible for you guys to make McKinny look worse if you tried.

            Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

            Feingold for President

            by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 08:21:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Another hat tip to you, Dougymi. (4+ / 0-)

        If Rep. McKinney were a real mover-and-shaker in the House, I don't think we would care that constituent services and attention to local issues was lacking.

        I think we'd take it for the team.

        But many of us in GA-04 don't think she's effective on either level, which is why we support change.

        I do hope that Rep. McKinney is hired by an advocacy group where her passion and commitment to progressive issues can do us all some good. She'll have to prove herself capable of making more than noise, but she's smarter than portrayed, and for some organizations grandstanding is one of the key success factors.

        "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

        by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:56:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Are you freaking kidding me???? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mperloe, VolvoDrivingLiberal

        The house is on fire - the chickens are down the well - the dog has rabies and the barn is up in a tornado. Our entire country has been hijacked by Christian-fascists actively trying to incite Armageddon, shred the Constitution, impose a police state and abolish every single act of social legislation during the 20th Century. For a DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSPERSON to sit on her fat ass and do NOTHING for an entire term in the face of all this is nothing less than an act of treason to the concept of Constitutional democracy.

        Cynthia McKinnley is a waste of hydrogen and needs to go. Johnson has his faults, but at the very least he can work within the party. All hands need to be at the pumps to put out the fire little Georgie has set and we don't need people who only stand at the sidelines and "supervise."

    •  From what I've heard (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AaronBa, pat208

      From people familer with her home district, her lack of attention to it is a big part of what's about to bring her down, maybe even larger then her character problems.

      Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

      Feingold for President

      by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:15:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  this is the same (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Inky, Grand Poobah, BurnetO, Catrina

      bogus criticism that the rethugs advanced against Kerry - didn't author any bills.  I'm not surprised here though because with respect to Cynthia, we have quite a few rethug-like tactics going on on these threads.

      I saw a flyer a few days ago listing things she brought to her community and sorry I didnt read it in full and only remember the first bulleted item which was something like 350million in fed Money (didn't say over what period of time) brought to her district.  

      But I know that it doesn't matter that I (also a GA-04 democratic who is very pleased with Cynthia and wish we had a few more like her in congress) don't recall the particulars because the anti-Cynthia brigade here does not want any information.  So if you answer one smokescreen question, they'll just throw up another one.  Many people have given many responses and many links regarding Cynthia's accomplishments and they respond with the same tired - she socked the policeman- response.  

      If they think she brought nothin to her district.  What could they possibly hope for from Johnson.  

      I am convinced that the negative campaign on this blog re Cynthia is being led by republicans.  And they're using the tactics they know best - slime and smear.

      •  Hilarious juxtaposition: (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sanchez96, Goldfish, Mia Dolan

        I am convinced that the negative campaign on this blog re Cynthia is being led by republicans.

        And they're using the tactics they know best - slime and smear.

        'Round these parts, being called "Republican" is a "slime & smear."

        We've laid out TONS of legit reasons why McKinney might be considered unacceptable by bona fide Dems. We've pointed out endorsements and funding from sources that you can see for yourself are true progressive Dems. So you don't have to, you know, get all suspicious-like.

        And yet you're back with this desparate canard of Opponents = Republicans.

        To paraphrase Gov. Dean, "You're not Stalin," so we're actually going to have an election. Please just accept it -- solid progressives are not all going to vote the way you want them to.

        "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

        by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:37:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well if the shoe fits you, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Inky, Grand Poobah, BurnetO

          wear it.  You're not the only one who can slime and smear.

          You put up an anti-Cynthia link a few days ago regarding anti- semitism that was so off the wall and poorly sourced that even your follow up comment sounded that you found yourself incredulous. As I said before, I'd have to be a dumb republican to give any credence to your comments or your "tons of reasons".  They don't hold water.  

          •  Link? n/t (0+ / 0-)

            "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

            by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:47:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Forgotten your (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Inky, BurnetO

              shameful link that someone called you on?  Look back in your notes on "what to say to trash Cynthia."

              •  Thought so. Doesn't exist as you describe. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 05:26:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What did you do (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Inky, BurnetO

                  delete your notes?  I dont think so.  You have placed verbatim comments in this thread that you placed in other McKinney threads.  You know exactly what I'm referring to and I'm satisfied with that.  

                  Refuse to let you give me any busy work.  That's your game.

                  •  WTF are you talking about now? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    VolvoDrivingLiberal, Mia Dolan

                    I have no frickin' clue what comment you're talking about, and it sounds like you're starting to have doubts yourself. (As are your readers?)

                    My guess is that you've been so frustrated with the inundation of anti-McKinney comments from so many Kossaks, that just you can't keep them straight. Lots of people have pissed you off, and they've proven hard to shut down. Understandable, but watch your accusations if you can't back them up.

                    "Busy work" indeed... It's called supporting your claims.

                    I think you'll find my comment record to be steadfastly anti-McKinney, but grounded in consistent reasoning and progressive values. No comments about the Capitol Cops, no comments about her appearance, balanced when her record warrants (see posts about mixed support from gays, legitimacy of her Tupac bill, etc.), generous about her early years & promise, glowing about her voting record, guarded about the "crazy/embarassment" thing, tepid about Johnson. With facts & support.

                    No, I think you're just passionate and worried about your candidate. I've been a Dem since 1968 -- so I've been there many times. Please try to open your mind to the possibility that some people on the same team as you -- including some smart, knowledgable people who have honed their debating chops for 40 years and can lay out some good licks -- have an honest disagreement with you on this race. Then you might be able to stop calling us names.

                    "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                    by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:03:04 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Rather full of yourself (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Inky, BurnetO

                      arent you!  

                      Your summary of your benevolence toward McKinney is laughable.  I also read your silly comments that come down to - she socked the policement or she embarrasses me - when you cant refute the facts that other commenters posed.  Cynthia has an excellent record as a democrat in congress and her majority black constituency is very pleased with her.  

                      There are a few concerns that I have re: her runoff and its not that I think that she'll lose but that the rethugs that are backing her opponent will steal the election.  And they are setting up that scenario with fraudulent polls by republican operatives, negative articles and innuendo from a corporate newspaper that has been opposed to her for years, radio stations that refuse to take her ads although they take the ads from her opponent or  his sponsors, and then propagandists like you who can come on a democratic blog calling yourself "progressive" while you are bombarding Cynthia with 3 comments to each pro Cynthia's one.  You are just awesome!  You are answering the comments almost concurrently.  One of these days I hope to grow an extra pair of hands,too.

                      So touting of your supposed benevolence toward Cynthia doesn't impress me.  I still think you are "on the job."  And supposed benevolence is supposed to ad to your credibility.  It doesn't for me.

                      Debating chops???  Is that what this is about?  I dont think so.  I think it should be about truth.

                      BTW, I've been voting democratic since 1960.  Gotcha!!

                  •  You seem unhinged (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    VolvoDrivingLiberal, Mia Dolan

                    I think you should turn the computer off for awhile and have a glass of water.

                    Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

                    Feingold for President

                    by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 08:27:49 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Goldfish (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BurnetO

                      Do you have any comment on the issues or are you just a part of the posse trying to silence support for Cynthia?  

                      •  I already made (0+ / 0-)

                        Lots of comments on the issue of whether or not this women deserves to be in Congress here before you showed up on this diary. Perhaps if you had spent less time making delusional comments, and spent more time reading the comments that were already here you would know that.

                        Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

                        Feingold for President

                        by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 08:36:33 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I asked for (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          BurnetO

                          comments on the issues. Not two-bit psychological evaluations of people who don't agree with you, not name calling, not profanity.  

                          ps  I knew Afeni Shakur, Tupac's mother, as one of the NY-7 in the 70's.  She was a revolutionary and she paid the price. She is a constituent of Cynthia McKinney who is using some of the money from Tupac's music success in sponsoring/supporting  programs for youth and probably lobbied for the bill to commemorate her son.  Your references the "Tupac" bill, in several diaries is another instance of you going off half-cocked cause you supposed it would arouse some emotion.  

                          •  First of all (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            VolvoDrivingLiberal

                            Don’t lie to my face in order to strengthen your argument. You and I both know the only the diary that I’ve talked about the Tupac bill is this one. The reason we both know that is because the only diary I’ve talked about the Tupac bill is this one. I first heard about it here, and while I understand that your main tactic in this fight is to make it look like anyone who disagrees with you is part of some sinister conspiracy that’s just coming out of the woodwork to smear McKinny, the fact is, I’ve only talked about the bill here.

                            Now, as for that bill, you seem to view everything in terms of how it relates to your pet candidate (kind of like that old Al Franken sketch). However, I don’t use that prism. This would be a stupid bill no matter who offered it. I think the fact that its been sitting around for nearly a year and has yet to attract one co-sponsor should be a big ol’ red flag that it’s a bad bill. The fact that a rich constituent of McKinny’s lobbied for it just makes it stink more.

                            Now, as for the rest of your post. While you again to try to obfuscate using clever phrases like “two-bit psychological evaluations,” the fact is character is one of the issues, if not the main issue here, as much as you would like to ignore that fact by dictating what is and is not acceptable to debate.

                            Until you can talk about this with out smearing, lying, making paranoid accusations, and generally behaving like an ass, I have nothing more to say to you.

                            Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

                            Feingold for President

                            by Goldfish on Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 12:44:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  More lies (0+ / 0-)

                            and dime-store psychological evaluations.  I agree, you have nothing you could say to me - that I would find credible.  Bye, bye.

      •  Oh, but she did (0+ / 0-)

        Author the Tupac bill, which got all of... zero cosponsors.

        Your candidate is the best punch line since "yo momma."

        Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

        Feingold for President

        by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 08:26:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Oh Good, More Pie! (13+ / 0-)
    There have been lots of McKinney-Johnson diaries and even among those who oppose McKinney there is virtually no quarrel with her voting record (except for the ones she misses like extending the Voting Rights Act and the antigay marriage Constitutional amendment.  The consensus of the anti-McKinney people, many who live in her district at DK is:

    1) We should not support bad candidates because of good politics

    2) McKinney has not served her district well

    3)  McKinney too often makes HERSELF the issue and not the issues she claims to champion as a result she is an embarrassment and she ends up being detrimental to the issues progressives care about

    4) Her refusal to distance herself from anti-semtic staements made by her father and one time campaign manager make her feelings suspect

    GA-4 is an extremely blue district -- arguably THE bluest in the south and that McKinney was forced into a runoff by a little know, woefully underfunded candidate should speak volumes as to what her heavily Democratic constituents feel about the job she has done.

  •  The Georgia 4th & Kossaks (13+ / 0-)

    Let me try to summarize some personal opinions from the pie fights:

    There is no quarrel among Kossaks about McKinney's voting record.

    There is no quarrel among Kossaks about the need for all our Reps to keep attacking the Bush failures, and to do so vigorously.

    Those of us Kosskas who are in the GA 4th seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of replacing McKinney because she has been ineffective as a legislator, and not responsive to constituents. (Some GA 4th Kossaks, but not all, find her to be embarrassing and divisive as well.)

    There seems to be a consensus among the GA 4th Kossaks that Johnson is a relatively weak but inoffensive opponent, i.e. we'd love to see someone else but that Johnson meets most reasonableness tests. No one seems to be strongly in favor of him per se.

    There also seems to be a consensus among GA 4th Kossaks that local issues trump the national issues when it comes to our district.

    Finally, there seems to be a consensus among GA 4th Kossaks that McKinney started out with great promise, but has had plenty of time to try to deliver actual progress ... a dream deferred, so time to move on.

    GA 4th Kossaks, please correct/amplify anything you see that needs such.

    "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

    by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:18:50 PM PDT

  •  I'll tell you what (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pat208, jlove1982

    I watched that travesty of a debate today and I was never so embarrassed for both candidates. Mckinney was evasive, constantly changed the subject, used far too much ad hominem attack and whined excessively to the moderator.  Johnson also used uncited ad-hominems, didn't disclose what extent of his support came from 'publicans, and didn't say anything about what the hell he would do if elected.  Learning on the job isn't enough of a reason to vote for him and it was a dumb reason for him to give.  

    I wouldn't send a dime to either person and I'm glad I don't have to make that  choice.  My sympathies go out to those voters of that district.

    "Facts are stupid things"-- Ronald Reagan 1988

    by dougymi on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:31:23 PM PDT

    •  Thanks! (4+ / 0-)

      The first time a Kossak has acknowledged that we've got a decision to make here in GA 04, and that it's a question of trade-offs. Most appreciated!

      If we don't like incumbency-for-life, or gerrymandering, we've got to acknowledge that seats must change hands and that newcomers must be given a chance.

      I'm uncomfortable with Johnson's level of experience, but that same test is not being applied to a lot of other fresh challengers we're all supporting enthusiastically this year. I'm just saying...

      "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

      by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 12:52:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Johnson's support (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dougymi

      >>Johnson also used uncited ad-hominems, didn't disclose what extent of his support came from 'publicans,<<</p>

      For what it's worth the bulk of his highest contributors were from the following sources ( http://opensecrets.org/... ).  I do not see a lot of PAC contributions (only 5% total, the rest pretty much were individual donations) and the bulk of the highest contributions from sources appear to be law firms which, as a rule, aren't Republican (but really, how do we really know).

      "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

      by Mister Gloom on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:17:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Law Firms (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pat208, dougymi

        Since I live in ATL I am familiar with some of those law firm names...many are trial lawyers, and as such are very likely to be Democrats.

      •  Johnson Gets Big Bucks From Pro-Israel PACs... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Inky, BurnetO, rmx2630

        McKinney opponent rakes in pro-Israel cash

        ...which explains why he opposes a ceasefire in Lebanon

        which explains why he opposes a timetable for bringing troops home from Iraq

        which explains why he now says he thinks Gulf War 1  was good even though he opposed it at the time

        which explains why 'fighting terrorism' comes out of his mouth with only slightly less frequency than Goerge Bush

        •  Specifics for both candidates, please? n/t (0+ / 0-)

          "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

          by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:27:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Specifics... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Inky, BurnetO

            ...for Johnson are as I outlined above.

            For Cynthia,

            she wants a timetable for return of troops

            she opposes wars of choice

            and she believes that a better foreign policy, including being an "honest broker" in the MidEast disputes is the way to fight terrorism.

            These were the positions outlined by the candidates themselves in today's debate.

            •  Sorry I wasn't clear. (0+ / 0-)

              It was the funding "issue" that was, IMO, only partially made.

              In particular, it's the slice-and-dice manner of the "charge" against Johnson that needs elaboration.

              Both candidates are getting funding. Who's getting most funding from INSIDE the District, for example? What groups are funding EACH candidate? Which ones tend to fund incumbents anyway and might be discounted? Of those groups, which ones fund other Dem candidates that we Kossaks tend to like or dislike?

              Without that context, this is just a drive-by.

              "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

              by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:36:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's Documented... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Inky, BurnetO

                ...just follow the link I provided above. The source is non-partisan. Out of state pro-Israeli PACS dumping $$$ into the Johnson campaign is not a 'charge.'  It's just true.

                The Pro-Israeli PACs are salivating at the opportunity to buy themselves a Congressman.

                •  The donations are the fact. Agreed. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mperloe

                  The implications of corruption are one-sided and merely "charges." Your opinion, supported by a limited revelation of the facts & context.

                  Let me answer one of my own questions: most Johnson money is from within the district, opposite that of McKinney. Your fact may in fact be a true fact, but it may also be an immaterial fact.

                  "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                  by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:46:30 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Don't Put Words In My Mouth (3+ / 0-)

                    What I said was that Hank Johnson's funding sources influence the positions he takes on specific issues.   And I would say the same about any politician who is receiving large sums of campaign cash from PACs with special interets.  I can't say it's 'corrupt' because it's transparent.   And there's nothing "limited in revelation" as you assert.  I was very unambiguous, and the source provided very clearly and completely stated the facts in a non-partisan context.

                    Your fact may in fact be a true fact, but it may also be an immaterial fact.

                    Cha Cha or Samba ???  cause you're really doing a dance here.

                    There's nothing that "may in fact" be about it.  Johnson is without dispute getting a significant percentage of his campaign funds from pro-Israeli PACs that are outside the district.  It's material because Middle East policy is at the forefront of issues concerning the Congress.

                    •  And that percentage is? (0+ / 0-)

                      Johnson is without dispute getting a significant percentage of his campaign funds from pro-Israeli PACs that are outside the district.

                      "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                      by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:02:09 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You Either Have a Short Attention Span... (2+ / 0-)

                        ...or just refuse to read the information provided. Done.

                        •  Read Open Secrets (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          pat208, VolvoDrivingLiberal

                          There is no mention of AIPAC donations on opensecrets. In fact, Johnson gets more support from the district than McKinney.

                          McKinney get $5,000 from AFLAC, does that mean that all her votes were in support of insurance carriers?

                          I'm sorry, but you sound too full of hate to accept that people may have a different view than you AND, yet they can be a thoughtful progressive at the same time.

                          If you believe the Iraq war is a success, vote Republican.

                          by mperloe on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:27:34 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Not done. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Mia Dolan

                          I've read all the funding reports. You're provided no support at all for your specific claims:

                          GrandPoobah: Johnson is without dispute getting a significant percentage of his campaign funds from pro-Israeli PACs that are outside the district.

                          GrandPoobah: Out of state pro-Israeli PACS dumping $$$ into the Johnson campaign

                          GrandPoobah: The Pro-Israeli PACs are salivating at the opportunity to buy themselves a Congressman.

                          Not a real issue here, just a side show. Sounds like more noise from the McKinney machine to me.

                          "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

                          by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:35:53 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                •  Why wouldn't they buy a Republican? (0+ / 0-)

                  If you believe the Iraq war is a success, vote Republican.

                  by mperloe on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:22:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  falsehood (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  pat208, VolvoDrivingLiberal

                  >>just follow the link I provided above. The source is non-partisan. Out of state pro-Israeli PACS dumping $$$ into the Johnson campaign is not a 'charge.'  It's just true.<<</p>

                  Actually, if you click on the In-State/Out of State section of the link I provided you'd see that Johnson is only getting 6% of his money from outside of the district compared with 65% for Cynthia (granted, most of those are labor unions and groups like Human Rights Campaign but still).  Most of Hank's contributions are from individual donors (95%).  Considering that the majority of his contributions are both individual donations and from in-state I'd say that what you are stating is false.

                  "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

                  by Mister Gloom on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:58:23 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You Provided Dated Information (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Inky, BurnetO, Catrina

                    The opensecrets.com link you provided only shows fundraising info for Hank Johnson through 7/19.  The link I provided gives information on funds raised from the primary until earlier this week.

                    You can argue over the implications, but it's really not debatable that Hank is getting large contributions from pro-Israeli PACs that saw the election results and decided that this would be an opportunity to influence the election.  

                    •  ...'influence the runoff,' that is. eom. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BurnetO
                    •  Okay but (0+ / 0-)

                      I'll wait until the official period but it is worth noting that the article states that all of this pretty much came after Johnson created the run-off.  His support when he really needed it (pre-primary success) came from area law firms & real estate companies.  And it'll be very interesting to see what percentage this money actually is.  Though I will complain that the Hill article was poorly written and cast aspirations (saying that Johnson received money from those donating to Majette, Davis or both doesn't really mean anything as people donated to Majette for reasons other than Israel).

                       

                      "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

                      by Mister Gloom on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:22:54 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  If they were you'd think they'd contribute more (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  pat208

                  >>The Pro-Israeli PACs are salivating at the opportunity to buy themselves a Congressman.<<</p>

                  Total raised by Johnson from all PACs?  $8,100 a mere 5% of his total funding (http://opensecrets.org/races/summary.asp?ID=GA04&cycle=2006&special=N).  The majority of Johnson's campaign (over $161,000 out of $169,000) is from individual donations, many from trial lawyers.

                  "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

                  by Mister Gloom on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:03:02 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  So what? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pat208

          Source please?

        •  By specifics I mean... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pat208

          Which PACs? How much?

        •  Define big bucks (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pat208
          How many $$$

          What percent of his money?

          So if a legal PAC donates money we should not support the candidate? What about the banks and PAC's that donated to McKinney. AFLAC being one of them is incredibly Red.

          If you believe the Iraq war is a success, vote Republican.

          by mperloe on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:21:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  On the other hand (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lightiris, RoIn, AaronBa, pat208

    Joe Leibermen has been right on a lot of his votes. Too bad there's more to being a good repersentitve then voting the right way.

    Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

    Feingold for President

    by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:12:32 PM PDT

  •  August 5th, 2006 GA-04 Day on Kos (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RoIn, pat208, DemocraticLuntz

    All-McKinney-All-The-Time day. Careful folks, lest we push Lieberman/Lamont off the front page.

    •  So moved! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mperloe

      This is not a national race here, folks. It's not a parallel of Connecticut in any way.

      There are some powerful local issues and attitudes driving this one -- and they're not even the ones you think, if you're just following the race casually. And most constituents here aren't really voting based on Israel vs. Hezbollah, or even regional issues.

      Lots of Kossaks will be disappointed if McKinney loses on Tuesday. I sympathize, but she will not disappear, nor lose her powerful voice. She may, if we're lucky, reappear in a new non-governmental role. Even many of us who hope to throw her out of Congress hope for that.

      "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

      by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 01:26:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Because I am against Johnson (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BurnetO, Catrina

    He is a Fox Democrat.

  •  Great diary. (8+ / 0-)

    Put my first diary to shame.

    Go Cynthia go!

  •  *I saw her debate her opponent* (7+ / 0-)

    on c-span this morning. I didn't know anything about him, but I wasn't impressed. From the answers he gave during the debate, I have a sneaking suspicion that he's a DINO. McKinney may have her flaws, but at least she's a full-blooded Democrat. Add that to the fact that the RNC seems to view her as a threat, and that's enough to get her my support.

    •  A 'threat' to do what? (0+ / 0-)

      Isn't she more valuable to the RNC as a fundraising image than she is a threat to do any real damage?

      "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

      by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:04:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed, I pulled my diary yesterday on her (5+ / 0-)

        because of the attacks on her. I typed it in a hurry before leaving for an appointment and couldn't answer so I just chucked the whole thing. It wasn't worth it to me.  But the ire it drew led me to think about what I wanted to say to the members of this community.

        Yes, she's an easy target. Part of the reason she's an easy target is because she's so uncompromising in her support of progressive values and in holding Bush Inc. accountable. By itself, that shouldn't be liability. Part of the problem with Dems is that they've moved away from progressive values. They've moved to the right. They fear being called liberal. I don't think Cynthia suffers that fear.

        And yes, I have strong doubts Johnson because I see him as becoming just another mealy-mouthed Democrat who won't stand up for progressive values when push comes to shove. I'll apologize if he proves otherwise because I have few doubts that he'll win on Tuesday. We'll have to wait and see.

        The truth is, as many have pointed out, McKinney is NOT particularly effective in the Congresses in which she has served.  Some of that can be blamed on her, but alot of it can also be blamed on the fact that she's pretty radically progressive when few others in the House are even remotely progressive.

        I only wish she would have carried herself with greater dignity and acted more responsibly in some key instances.  It's tragic really. She let herself get in her own way.

        I love the smell of impeachment in the morning!

        by gabbardd on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:48:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Correct (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pat208, VolvoDrivingLiberal

        I would think that the RNC would like to keep such a laughingstock in Congress.

        It doesn't make us look good

        ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING

        by v2aggie2 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:00:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Did any one notice (0+ / 0-)

      that the c-span moderater kept calling her Cynthia McCain?  He did this several times.

      Who is ready to take an ethical stand?

      by DollyLlama on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:45:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What weird psychological phenomenon... (0+ / 0-)

        ... would have caused that? What a strange association that is!

        "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

        by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:04:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wait a sec. Isn't John McCain's wife... (0+ / 0-)

          ... named Cindy?

          Still a very odd connection to make.

          "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

          by pat208 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:07:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for all the responses... (8+ / 0-)

    I'm not sure I changed anyone's mind at this late stage of the game.  (I get the impression that people are pretty-well exhausted of the debate. I don't frequent the DailyKos as much as I think many people here do.)

    People have come up with some pretty good summaries of the concerns about Cynthia McKinney (see the highly rated post by pat208 "The Georgia 4th & Kossaks").

    As a super concise summary, the concerns revolve around:

    • bad character
    • poor leadership on legislation in general (both national & local)
    • lack of responsiveness and effectiveness on local issues

    I'm an outsider.   So, my viewpoint may not be as well informed as those residents of Georgia's 4th district.   But when I read in the DailyKos ad that she was too "shrill" and I've read others who say she's too "nutty", it just seemed like some kind of Republican smear campaign. (You know how they always want to make elections about character issues and other vague qualities.)

    Yet, judging by the many reasonable, good people here who've expressed their objection, perhaps there's something to this criticism - an abrasiveness that limits her effectiveness.  Still, I wonder if her politics are just too liberal for the establishment, and that's why party leaders consider her abrasive.

    Also, I think national issues should be super important.  I mean, somehow we've got to get control of our government on the big issues, even if it does seem futile at times.

    I saw Helen Caldicott on C-Span a few years ago.  She is the director of www.NuclearPolicy.org.  She has all kinds of frightening stories about the risks to this world as a result of nuclear weapons proliferation.

    She also mentioned that about 14% of our Congress is made up of women.  She said that studies have shown that legislatures around the world that have 30% or more women tend to be less war-mongering.  But less that 30%, the women tend to vote like the men.

    Then, I've read from Noam Chomsky how our current leadership wants to weaponize space in order to have first-strike capability.  

    Cynthia McKinney is one of 33 co-sponsors of Kucinich's resolution for an immediate cease-fire in Lebanon:
    http://www.kucinich.us/  -  read the post about halfway down "Kucinich Thanks the Early Cosponsors of H. Con. Res. 450"
    http://thomas.loc.gov/...
    http://www.kucinich.us/...

    Well, this is already too long a post.  So, I'll wind down here.   Though McKinney may be undesirable in many ways, I think she's good on the big issues.  I think the big problem with our government is not a lack of legislation being pushed, it's that there's too many bad bills that pass and not enough support for the good bills.  So, that's why I still think McKinney is a good choice.

  •  What about what she has done for the 4th District (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pat208
    if anything.

    A sampling of votes does not determine whether she is an effective legislator.

    ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING

    by v2aggie2 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 02:55:39 PM PDT

  •  I've been watching today's debate (3+ / 0-)

    and it strikes me that Johnson is not a great speaker.

    Having said that, McKinney is still in a dogfight.

    At the end of the day, this election isn't really about Hank Johnson.  If McKinney was effective, she wouldn't have to worry about ANY challenger

    ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING

    by v2aggie2 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:05:04 PM PDT

  •  Why are the big guns after her? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Grand Poobah, Catrina

    AIPAC is funding her opponent, as has already been pointed out. The destruction of Lebanon is today a potentially even bigger issue than Iraq. She refused to pledge to support military superiority for Israel.

    She is an outspoken incorruptible voice for truth and justice. I consider her my representative, even though I'm in Texas & was gerrymandered by Tom Delay into a Rethug district. Cynthia speaks for me just as surely as Barbara Jordan used to.

    Democracy Now! had a segment this morning on the attempted Republican takeover of the Democratic primary. Highly recommended. Here's some of what Amy Goodman had to say

     McKinney - who is Georgia's first African American Congresswoman - is one of the most outspoken critics of the Bush administration. She was one of the earliest opponents of the Iraq invasion, has continually spoken out against U.S policy in the Middle East, and was one of the most visible politicians to investigate the government's response to Hurricane Katrina.

    I am appalled by the same 5 or 6 clueless people who haunt every thread on McKinney with the same old trash-talk and bad-faith questions. What's your motivation?

    I donate to Cynthia just like I donate to Ned LaMont. I think her race is even more important. Her voice must not be silenced by the corporate media and lying shills for Israel and rich people.

    Thanks for an excellent diary, Quequeg.

    Burnet O (-8.31,-6.31)
    Impeach Cheney First

    by BurnetO on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 07:35:57 PM PDT

    •  5 or 6 people? (2+ / 0-)

      Did you check out the poll on this diary?   Cynthia can't even win on DailyKos.

      The Repbulicans are going to miss her when she's gone.  But her constituents won't.  

      Tämä Mia Dolan on ihan hirveä (That Mia Dolan is just awful or This Mia Dolan is made of Moose )

      by Mia Dolan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 08:20:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, truth (0+ / 0-)

      Because the nation just has a burning need to get to the truth about how Tupac.

      I'm sorry, this women is a joke, and you look like a joker going to the ground for her like this.

      Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

      Feingold for President

      by Goldfish on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 08:34:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  ineffective or corruptible? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BurnetO, Catrina

    We'd have plenty of evidence of her honesty or dishonesty.  It's  unfortunate, but the only way we have of telling whether politicians are honest is whether they take or reject all the graft shovelled their way. Because Cynthia is so horribly ineffective, however, she gets no bribes to either reject or accept.

    LOL!  First you complain about the representation,admit she has a very good,progressive in fact, voting record and then complain she won't take graft! Ha!

    2 things Cynthia McKinney does: Refuse to cheerlead for WHATEVER the Israeli army does  (remember: she is a member of the US Congress,not the Knesset and doesn't HAVE to swear loyalty to them) and then
    "she hit the cop? with a cell phone"  .

    She stays an "uppity Black woman," which a bunch on this thread seem to dislike immensely.

    So"pro Israeli" racism is good, while "pro Black" racism is bad?  True or false?

    Cynthia or Hank- pick your flavor.

    You have a heck of a choice there in GA-4, but I will take the progressive without "manners" over the dignified respectable......wussie you are promoting as an alternative, Mr Bush enabler whose position is indistinguishable from the Terrorizer in Chief.

    Exxon Mobil's 10 billion: "Oil Profits are Blood Money!"

    by Pete Rock on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:33:04 PM PDT

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