European car manufacturer unveils 83 mpg diesel hybrid

Peugeot, the French car manufacturer and one of the leaders in the manufacture of diesel-powered cars, has unveiled two diesel-hybrid prototypes that go 80 mpg (3.4l/100 km). Based on existing midsize Peugeot and Citroen (pictured above) models, they combine the two most efficient technologies available today to improve fuel efficiency and show a promising way forward.

Note that the existing diesel versions of the 2 cars already have an excellent mileage of 60 mpg, as do many other diesel cars manufactured in Europe, with low particule emissions thanks to stringent European fuel standards and particule filters.

Peugeot and Citroen make 80mpg diesel hybrids

Peugeot and Citroen have developed new diesel-electric hybrids that can deliver more than 80mpg.

The Peugeot 307 and Citroen C4 Hybride HDi use a conventional 90bhp 1.6-litre diesel engine married to an electrically-controlled gearbox, stop-start technology to save fuel at lights or in traffic and an electric motor.

The electric motor, powered by batteries that are charged under braking, is used for an all-electric mode at speeds of less than 31mph and boosts overall power to 121bhp when used in conjunction with the diesel engine.

It helps to improve fuel consumption from 60.1mpg on the combined cycle to 83mpg, and significantly lower C02 emissions of 90g/km.

For the technology geeks:

FRANCE: PSA Peugeot-Citroen show diesel hybrid prototypes

PSA Peugeot Citroën's Hybrid HDi technology comprises of a 1.6-litre HDi diesel engine, a particulate filter system (DPFS) with the latest generation Stop & Start system, an electric motor, inverter, high-voltage battery pack and dedicated control electronics. The cars are also equipped with an electronically-managed automated manual six-speed gearbox.

The Stop & Start system enables the Hybride HDi vehicles to start and drive using only the HDi diesel engine, even when the high-voltage battery pack is totally flat. Other hybrid vehicles, in contrast, would be totally immobilised in this situation.

The Hybride HDi has several other features including: recovery of kinetic energy during deceleration and braking; an all-electric mode, or zero emission vehicle (ZEV), eliminating noise and emissions for urban driving at up to 50 kilometres an hour (30mph); and an extended ZEV mode, in which electrical power is used by default, depending on the battery charge level.

For main road and motorway driving, the electric motor can provide a 35% power boost for extra acceleration when needed.

PSA Peugeot Citroën could market its Hybride HDi vehicles as early as 2010 but their introduction depends on making this technology available at an affordable price. Today, the price gap between a Hybride HDi model and a comparable diesel HDi model is still too wide and would have to be halved to make diesel hybrid vehicles accessible to most consumers.

The boss of Peugeot made the comment that these vehicles would make economic sense when the price difference between a diesel-hybrid and a diesel is similar to that between a gasoline and a diesel (for the same car model), which means that the hybrid systems (essentially the battery) needs to be cut in half, thus the lag of a few years before commercialisation.

This is an obvious marketing ploy to fight Toyota and remind everybody that diesel cars offer today similar mpg and pollution levels to hybrids, at a lower cost - and thus that gasoline hybrids are not selling in Europe. Toyota has kindly commented that anything that makes hybrids better known and developped is a good thing... I suppose both are true, and are at least working to improve fuel performance of our cars - and both are highly successful and profitable companies.

•  Tip Jar - Jan. 31

  I have very little internet access today, so apologize for the short diary.

  Be on the lookout for Meteor Blades' diary on the energy aspects of the SOTU tonight, to which I hope to be able to contribute later.

  by Jerome a Paris on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:03:20 AM PDT

  •  "promise" might be more accurate

    Nice looking car, but "promise" might be more accurate than "unveils", since they're saying the engine won't be available until 2010. Hopefully they can speed that up!

    Til then, my Golf TDI gets 50 MPG on biodiesel.

    by racerx on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:13:38 AM PDT

  •  Wow, and good looking too.

    Now over here, the fog of myopia has Ford showing off the Mercury Meta-One that is supposed to offer the same diesel/electric type of hybrid powerplant.  It is good looking and (I guess) big enough for the American tastes...will it ever see production?  I don't know, but I'd be willing to consider it as a vehicle purchase, the first domestic that I would consider purchasing in 20 years.

    The day of the gas guzzling SUV are fast approaching the end if not over already.  I hope, for the sake of our economy and the auto workers, the the management of Ford and GM get their collective heads out of their asses and build autos that we not only want, but demand in a new $100/bbl economy.

    by joby on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:19:32 AM PDT

    •  Ford Reflex

      Ford has also been showing off the Reflex hybrid, which uses a similar powertrain.

      No, you can't buy this one either, and it has not been listed for future production.  Darn it.  This car is really very pretty in person.

      

      by Devilstower on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:35:38 PM PDT

    •  The Meta-One..

      ...looks like my Vibe's (what I call a nano-SUV) bigger brother. I hope it's quieter inside...

      by Newton Snookers on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:40:11 PM PDT

•  How widely available

  is biodiesel in Europe?

  by ssundstoel on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:04:14 AM PDT

  •  Biodiesel

    Europe is the largest producer of biodiesel. Germany alone produced 400 million gallons in 2005. Diesel engines are also more widely used in passenger cars. Diesel engines are also more efficient. In the US it seems that only trucks use diesel. And the US only produced 75 million gallons of biodiesel in 2005.

    We are kind of backward :)

    by ab initio on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:08:15 PM PDT

    •  Thanks

      As a future European I may just have to look into these diesel-hybrids once I can get a car; if I can use bio that's even better!  :)

      by ssundstoel on Wed Feb 01, 2006 at 09:01:30 AM PDT

•  Great note re: diesel hybrids...

  ...I wonder if there's a snowball's chance of seeing 'em in the US anytime soon...

  A corrupted government. Patriots branded as renegades. This is how we roll.

  by GreyHawk on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:07:18 AM PDT

  •  I'd settle for more that one manufacturer

    Selling passenger cars in diesel. I'd be happy to go biodiesel, but Golf's aren't cheap, and the quality on VW's is going down precipitously.

    by emptywheel on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:09:51 AM PDT

    •  Heh

      The quality on VW was never that good to begin with. Not too long ago, they had one of the worst quality problems in the industry. Every car rolling off the line had on average 228 problems. Bottom of the barrel.

      VW's are also an auto-mechanics worst nightmare. The engineers that design them apparently are never asked to fix one or even think about it.

      On the bug, it costs $400 to fix a headlight. $300 to fix a taillight.

      by Cyphrus42 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:28:02 AM PDT

      •  Well,

        My 1988 Cabriolet, which I bought three years ago, has not given me a lick of trouble. I've replaced four tires ands one radiator on it in those three years.

        And the engine just hums.

        by zknower on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:47:30 AM PDT

      •  not on my Golf

        My '01 TDI Golf has been mostly a dream. A few problems, but no more than any other car I've had (Mazda, Volvo, Honda). I have nearly 70K miles on it and it still runs like new.

        It costs a lot to fix cars now because they get away with it. I don't know that VW repair costs are any more than anyone elses. I do know that my '91 Volvo cost a lot more to fix than my Golf and it needed it more often.

        Plus, the Golf gets between 35-50 mpg (city vs. hwy). And I can go Bio-diesel if it ever becomes more readily available.

        Don't discount VW. They can be great cars. Better designed and engineered than most I've experienced. Solid and fun to drive too!

        by pdxcutter on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:47:35 AM PDT

      •  And some of us don't have the same experience

        Because I've owned several VWs, and I find that the ones manufactured at the Wolfsburg plant in Germany drive tighter and have far fewer problems over the life of the car than those manufactured at the other plants. This has been the experience of other VW enthusiasts I know, anecdotal, sure, but the popularity of the car has some basis in reality--nevermind the opinion of the Tappet Bros.

        Currently I'm driving a Jetta TDI wagon and get 37 mpg city (the advertised rate) and quite often do better than 50 mpg highway at speeds of 65-75 mph. This is better than most of the reports I've heard about the performance of the Prius and Civic hybrids (but those I know who own them, love them), though the Insight seems to hold its own.

        I'm all for a diesel hybrid and would jump at the chance to own one. However, I'm far more interested in helping improve the availability of biodiesel. The closest biodiesel pump to me is allegedly in Brooklyn, but I haven't been there yet. (I live a ways away in NJ.)

        If there are other NJ/NY diesel enthusiasts on here who are interested in helping to improve access to biodiesel, give me a shout out.

        by hyperstation on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:09:51 PM PDT

      •  you speaketh the truth

        As someone whos worked on many different cars (worked as a mechanic for while), VW has some problems.  But, to sight the example of the replacement cost of a headlight assembly is not fair.  Actually replacing them is quite easy once you know how.  Sure you have to remove the air box and perhaps the battery to do it, but this isn't something you do every day.  I much prefer that than having to deal with rusted philips head screws on the frame of a head lamp on almost anything made before 1990.

        And those of you who sight your wonderfully reliable vws, one anecdotal story does not a statistic make.

        by johne on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 01:06:09 PM PDT

      •  Yeah

        I realize that. We actually have a Passat, no complaints, and we've sold some of our tall friends on Passats over SUVs (We've driven two 6'5" friends 5 hours or more, and they were both remarkably comfortable).

        But the price puts a used Golf up against a new Mazda 3 with a discount, and unfortunately the Mazda 3 is going to win that comparison.

        by emptywheel on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 02:47:33 PM PDT

    •  Good point...

      ...acceptance would grow if production was more widely available.

      A corrupted government. Patriots branded as renegades. This is how we roll.

      by GreyHawk on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 04:26:29 PM PDT

  •  Watch DaimlerChrysler

    DC will be making a diesel push in the US, so if there's a company with a major US presence that will bring out a diesel hybrid, I'm guessing they'll be it.

    Also, the Mercedes portion of DC has a really interesting breakthrough in clean diesels using their BLUETEC technology:
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/...

    by loudGizmo on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:35:11 AM PDT

    •  Thanks. :)

      Good to know.

      A corrupted government. Patriots branded as renegades. This is how we roll.

      by GreyHawk on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 04:25:20 PM PDT

  •  Not at least until 2007.

    
    Since the hybrid market caters to environmentalists in addition to just people who want to save gas money, these will have to be PZEVs.  Our diesel fuel here is not scheduled to become low-sulfur until the summer of this year, and that schedule may slip (especially under Bush.)

    Until we have low sulfur diesel, making a PZEV diesel will be too expensive due to the emissions system required.  HOPEFULLY we'll see ULSD fuel roll out on schedule so that the U.S. market will be attractive to these products.

    I also wonder what this product would be capable of with one of these installed:

    http://www.chechfi.ca/

    ...and a decade or so down the road, heat recovery as well...

    by skids on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:37:36 AM PDT

•  Fabulous!

  
  Pretty car ... it could help reduce our dependence on the middle east ... it will likely be affordable.

  The Bush administration will probably ban it's import citing "safety" concerns.

  by WorldTraveler on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:08:12 AM PDT

  •  Actually, they'll ban it because it's French.

    by viczeba on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:28:32 AM PDT

•  Once again..

  Once again the Europeans do something better then us. I'm telling ya - the second one of these other car manufacturers make these (hybrids) more affordable - The American Auto companies are dead. They've been losing shares for a while now and the only thing they know how to create profitably is big SUV's.. they don't even know where to begin with small vehicles.

  by Joshua Jenks on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:08:16 AM PDT

  •  Ya think it has anything to do with

    their governments and citizens pushing them to better levels of efficiency and pollution control?

    In this country, the fervent pro-business community (typified by the WSJ) actually enable business to cripple themselves.  If Congress pushed Detroit to meet stringent standards they'd do it and keep their technology growing and vibrant.  But business cuts its own throat by supporting those who let it get away with intellectual indolence, bad decisions, inefficiency and corruption.

    And they have the nerve to criticize unions.

    by jetfan on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:23:01 AM PDT

    •  fuel cost is higher too.

      Between taxes and just general higher gas prices, there's a definite economic incentive to building and buying smaller more fuel efficient cars in Europe.  We went smaller in the seventies when the fuel costs from $.34 to $1.34 in a year because of the first wave of opec price increases and embargos. Remember the vega and the pinto?  Now it's happening again. Higher fuel prices is the only way to permanently wean us off the suv.  Even $3.00 a gallon is waaaay below European prices.

      Short sighted auto executives are a big part of that.  Get the money while you can is the mantra in American industry.  Look at the oil industry.  Get it now before it runs out is what they want so that the current crop of executives can make as much as they can.  Forget the next generation.

      by dougymi on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:46:51 AM PDT

    •  Coal

      I've mentioned this several times in my discussion of the coal industry.

      The American coal industry is now not only many times cleaner than it was two decades ago, it's also much more profitable.  Why?  Because they were forced into it.   They'll run PR campaigns telling you how great they are and how much better things are now, but not one bit of it would have happened if they hadn't been pushed into it.

      And they still fight every new regulation as if it's going to be the death of them.

      by Devilstower on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:38:25 PM PDT

•  meanwhile back in the USSA....

  It's been a darn long time since I've seen either Peugeot or Citroen vehicles being sold in the US.  

  Question is, when can we expect to see these here?  Does either company have plans to get back into the US market?

  by G2geek on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:09:24 AM PDT

•  Are these US gallon, or Imperial Gallons

  It makes a difference.  Per Wikipedia one Imperial gallon equals 1.20094 US gallons.

  So 80 MPG Imperial Gallons would equal 66 MPG US Gallons.  This is still impessive, but not much better than a Toyota Prius, or a Honda Insite.

  Just asking.
  

  by Churchill on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:13:07 AM PDT

  •  The website doesn't use gallons at all

    but it uses liters. Converting liters to us gallons comes to 80+ (given my poor math). I think Jerome is using metric instead of british.

    by dougymi on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:37:11 AM PDT

•  Peugeot diesel hybrid

  Peugeot has long had, from what I recall, a well-deserved reputation for making very odd cars.  Have they improved their QC and functionality (ergonomics/functionality design) significantly since I last rode in one back in the 1970's?

  Not trashing them, just wondering - been a long time since I experienced one of their products.

  by MN camera on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:19:06 AM PDT

•  As an asthmatic

  I worry about the increased use of diesel engines in automobiles.  Air quality around roads is bad enough.  

  When I was looking for a car a few years ago, the VW salesman tried to steer me towards a TDI.  I couldn't stand to use one.  It literally makes me choke.

  by Ernest T Bass on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:22:36 AM PDT

  •  European diesels are different

    way lower emissions, low sulfur diesel fuel.

    My brother-in-law has a Fiat minivan, diesel (he lives in England). He gets about 50 mpg, it holds 7 people, and its exhaust isn't any worse than my gas car.

    There are more diesels in Europe, and the air quality is BETTER, not worse, than many places in the US.

    by mmacdDE on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:11:25 PM PDT

•  Where can I get one?

  I know diesels apparently aren't popular in the US but come on. This blows away anything I can get here.

  There are tons of people driving hybrids in DC. I can't believe that no one would buy a Peugeot diesel just cause it's a diesel.

  So what is the REAL barrier to entry? If it isn't the market place, it must be either the governments involved or the companies or both. What's going on?

  by Cyphrus42 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:24:24 AM PDT

•  Will

  they be available here?  Are Peugeot and Citroen planning sales here?  Looking for investors?  I have given up all hope that the American companies are going to step up to the plate.  They look to be so far behind now. Perhaps one of them will hook up with the Europeans to bring us some relief.

  by tobendaro on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:27:00 AM PDT

•  Use these ideas to rescue US auto industry...

  Basic suggestion for US automakers -

  In-license auto designs made by competitors abroad and use the US manufacturing base to add more selection to the US market.
  GM can pick and choose among the most fuel efficient cars abroad and instead of importing them, make them here.
  (They already paid for the labor and factories, the marginal cost of manufacturing more cars is only components and tooling.)

  Use US plants as 'fab' plants for other manufacturers that wish to sell in the US.  Whether Peugot or Fiat, they can sell in the US by purchasing US manufacturing capacity - cheap.

  by Former Hill Democrat on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:27:05 AM PDT

•  Been there, done that, in USA, killed by Bush.

  http://www.fueleconomy.gov/...

  It was an Al Gore-liked program.

  http://clinton4.nara.gov/...

  The original URL about the program is now
  404'ed:

  http://www.ta.doc.gov/...

  by mbkennel on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:37:23 AM PDT

  •  the wayback machine

    has some archives of it.

    http://web.archive.org/...

    by internik on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:20:12 PM PDT

•  Pretty car?

  It looks exactly like my Toyota Prius--same windshield, same roofline, same radio antenna, even the same color!  The Prius, in addition to being high mileage (though not so hi as either the manufacuturer or enthusiasts claim) is also a low emission vehicle.  Will that be true of a diesel hybrid?  Just asking.

  by pkjnew on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 11:39:32 AM PDT

  •  CD drives all

    The shape of the Prius is pretty well defined by the requirement to be extra wind-slippery, so the drag coefficient (cd) defines the shape.  Similar forces are at work here, driving  a similar design through "parallel evolution."

    Of course, there are some other slippery shapes.  Daimler-Chrysler (whose US cars look increasingly like bricks) has been experimenting with shapes based on the "box fish."  Apparently, this shape has an astounding low cd of about 0.19 -- much lower than the Honda Insight, currently the lowest drag car on the road.

    

    by Devilstower on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 12:45:14 PM PDT

•  What kind of batteries?

  and will it plug in to extend the gasoline mileage (i.e., use less gas, more electricity)?

  Link to original article (for us francophiles)?

  by tom 47 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 at 01:44:00 PM PDT